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  • Neil Druckmann confirms the Fireflies could have made a viable cure in interview (+ other insights on the show, games, and future)

    Antoo
    Member

    May 1, 2019

    4,507

    Full on spoilers for TLOU1, TLOU2, and both seasons of the show ahead

    I saw this clip on the TLOU subreddit making the rounds. Neil goes into the viability of the cure, and he says this:

    "Could the Fireflies make a cure? Our intent was that, yes, they could. Now, is our science a little shaky that now people are questioning it? Yeah, it was a little shaky and now people are questioning that. I can't say anything. All I can say is that our intent is that they would have made a cure. That makes it a more interesting philosophical question for what Joel does."

    Click to expand...
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    /

    I can't post the interview due to the interviewer, however, if you are a fan of TLOU, I would suggest maybe looking for articles/posts covering it or finding the interview yourself. Neil goes into A LOT. I'll bullet point some highlights.

    Show highlights:
    - Neil says Ellie and Dina's relationship was intentionally static in the game. The same approach wouldn't work for the show because shows need movement.
    - The series needs constant conflict/progression because story is everything in the medium. In games, you can have nothing of high importance going on for a while and still be invested due to interactivity.
    - He recognizes the divisiveness of the second season from game fans. He's appreciative of their love for the material and finds it cool how people see a game as standing shoulder-to-shoulder with a HBO show. He thinks it highlights how gaming has elevated as a medium.
    - Abby's motivation and the porch scene were moved up due to the reality that the second game needed multiple seasons to be fully adapted. Neil and Craig felt these elements wouldn't land if they kept the game's structure due to how long TV viewers would have to wait to get to them. There was a fear that the impact of these elements would have been lost due to people not remembering the previous season clearly enough to draw connections.
    - Craig is very intrigued by the idea of the prophet and wants to expand on who she is in the future.

    Game highlights:
    - There was originally a sequence planned for one of the flashbacks in TLOU2 where we would play through an infected attack on Jackson as Ellie alongside Joel.
    - There was no intent for the WLF/Seraphite conflict to serve as an allegory for the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. He took inspiration from the latter but he also took inspiration from other conflicts. Neil feels certain people online were cherry-picking statements to fit a narrative. He views the game conflict as a secular group clashing against a religious group.
    - He confirms he would be open to TLOU3 like he said in the documentary but wants to ensure he has the right idea for it that lives up to the series' pedigree
    - Neil's top priority right now is Intergalactic above all else. He claims it has the deepest gameplay they've ever done. 

    Last edited: Today at 2:57 AM

    Red Kong XIX
    Member

    Oct 11, 2020

    13,276

    Never understood why people thought they couldn't.

    That's the whole point of the ending. Joel being selfish, not willing to sacrifice someone he cares about for the greater good. 

    ConflictResolver
    Member

    Jan 1, 2024

    4,907

    Midgar

    I thought it was left vague in both the game and the show until the show's latest episode.
     

    Philippo
    Developer
    Verified

    Oct 28, 2017

    8,836

    Heh, I liked the ambiguity of not knowing if there was a 100% success guarantee out of sacrificing Ellie.
     

    Lotus
    One Winged Slayer
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    124,081

    I'm still saving her.
     

    FTF
    Member

    Oct 28, 2017

    33,203

    New York

    Philippo said:

    Heh, I liked the ambiguity of not knowing if there was a 100% success guarantee out of sacrificing Ellie.

    Click to expand...
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    Agreed. It should be left unknown.
     

    Bansai
    Teyvat Traveler
    Member

    Oct 28, 2017

    14,176

    Maaan Neil really needs to stop, feels like he's stripping away what's left of the nuance with those latest comments on the story.

    Then again, his story, his right I suppose, my headcannon remains strong and stubborn though. :P

    btw. interesting interview  

    Risev
    "This guy are sick"
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    3,896

    Red Kong XIX said:

    Never understood why people thought they couldn't.

    That's the whole point of the ending. Joel being selfish, not willing to sacrifice someone he cares about for the greater good.
    Click to expand...
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    I always got the impression the game wanted you to skip through the bullshit and just assume the cure would work, but it's still mediocre writing at best:

    - the lead doctor was a veterinarian.
    - the fireflies were desperate, lacking man power, and funds.
    - literally almost zero testing on Ellie before Just wanting to rip her brain out of her skull
    - literally zero attention given to the special circumstances that could have led to ellie being immune 

    The Quentulated Mox
    Corrupted by Vengeance
    Member

    Jun 10, 2022

    6,565

    hell yeah, next we should ask christopher nolan if the top was gonna fall down
     

    Mauricio_Magus
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    15,827

    Death of the author applies here, I don't really care what he has to say if it's not in the original game/text.

    It's clearly supposed to be ambiguous and it's staying that way for me. 

    Axiom
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    308

    Neil knowing the answer isn't the same as Joel knowing the answer - the only guarantee was that Ellie was going to die.
     

    FTF
    Member

    Oct 28, 2017

    33,203

    New York

    The Quentulated Mox said:

    hell yeah, next we should ask christopher nolan if the top was gonna fall down

    Click to expand...
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    lol
     

    Threadmarks Clarification on cure
    New

    Index

    OP

    OP

    Antoo
    Member

    May 1, 2019

    4,507

    For further context, he also states that if you had a different takeaway on the ending scenario of the first game, that's fully valid as well. He's just clarifying his authorial intent while also acknowledging that a player/viewer may read the situation much differently. I think he finds the philosophical question of saving a loved one versus saving the world more interesting than the specifics of how they got to that point.
     

    New

    Index

    harleyvwarren
    Member

    Oct 31, 2022

    5,299

    Illinois

    I always assumed there was a shot at a cure and that's what Joel denied humanity with his selfish, murderous behavior. There was no ambiguity about it for me playing the second game. It's just not subtle at all.
     

    behOemoth
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    6,687

    ConflictResolver said:

    I thought it was left vague in both the game and the show until the show's latest episode.

    Click to expand...
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    I think his answer still keeps it vague, but emphasising that serious possibilities existed
     

    Besiktas
    Member

    Sep 2, 2024

    914

    Why creators their own productruin years after a good product releases. Man just focus on making new stuff instead of clarifying theories.
     

    Risev
    "This guy are sick"
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    3,896

    Antoo said:

    For further context, he also states that if you had a different takeaway on the ending scenario of the first game, that's fully valid as well. He's just clarifying his authorial intent while also acknowledging that a player/viewer may read the situation much differently.

    Click to expand...
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    With all due respect to Niel, but that'a bullshit lmao. He also said the exact same thing about Ellie forgiving Joel / knowing he killed the fireflies at the end of the first game just a month or so before the release of Part 2 which gives a clear answer and renders any other interpretation invalid
     

    Kenzodielocke
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    13,948

    It's kind of moot if you make this so technichal

    Could they make it, could they deliver it, etc. 

    Lotus
    One Winged Slayer
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    124,081

    FTF said:

    Agreed. It should be left unknown.

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    The game came out over 12 years ago. The idea that a creator/author should just shut up and literally never comment on an ambiguous ending or complicated choice is so weird to me, especially when it's just his opinion at the end of the day. 

    Shoot
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    5,909

    Red Kong XIX said:

    Never understood why people thought they couldn't.

    That's the whole point of the ending. Joel being selfish, not willing to sacrifice someone he cares about for the greater good.
    Click to expand...
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    This. I was surprised to see people online saying they couldn't make a cure. It also obviously had no bearing on Joel's decision to massacre the hospital either. He just went back to doing what he used to do with Tommy for 20 years.

    Definitely makes Druckmann's recent comment about doing what Joel did sound sociopathic. 

    VAD
    Member

    Oct 28, 2017

    6,099

    Philippo said:

    Heh, I liked the ambiguity of not knowing if there was a 100% success guarantee out of sacrificing Ellie.

    Click to expand...
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    Yes, me too. I liked that the Fireflies were acting on the basis of hope rather than hard facts.

    Maybe Joel was right to save Ellie from pointless sacrifice. Maybe Ellie's savior complex was based on nothing and she was right to just live and enjoy life as it was. 

    Khanimus
    Avenger

    Oct 25, 2017

    46,469

    Greater Vancouver

    Woah Woah Woah... You mean Joel is a shitty self-serving asshole??!!

    Say it ain't so... 

    Zemoco
    Member

    Jan 12, 2021

    2,621

    Death of the author and all that, he really shouldn't confirm something like that. I suppose it's his right, but it hampers the discussion irrevocably.

    In either case, it does not make any sense on any level to kill the one girl with immunity milliseconds after making the deduction. Not to mention since the Fireflies are murderous, lying pricks anyway, it doesn't make any sense why Joel should believe them just because an omniscient entityconfirmed it. 

    SirKai
    Member

    Dec 28, 2017

    10,181

    Washington

    Will never understand why people split hairs over this or claim the supposed "ambiguity" of the vaccine viability adds anything to the story. In BOTH games, every character that matters is confident in the possibility of the vaccine, and that is what is important. People so DESPERATELY want to be morally vindicated that siding with Joel is not just righteous, but also rational even pursuit of a vaccine, even though the most passing glance interpretation of the ending is OBVIOUSLY written to not satisfy that perspective. It's a trolley problem, and the trolley problem is what makes the ending, and Joel's decision, interesting. If it's not actually a trolley problem, the ending and the story lose a lot of their depth and impact.
     

    Last edited: Today at 3:02 AM

    Risev
    "This guy are sick"
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    3,896

    Khanimus said:

    Woah Woah Woah... You mean Joel is a shitty self-serving asshole??!!

    Say it ain't so...
    Click to expand...
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    if only he picked up the phone when Neil was calling to tell him the cure works...
     

    SCUMMbag
    Prophet of Truth - Chicken Chaser
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    7,199

    Red Kong XIX said:

    Never understood why people thought they couldn't.

    That's the whole point of the ending. Joel being selfish, not willing to sacrifice someone he cares about for the greater good.
    Click to expand...
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    This.

    TLOU isn't a written masterpiece so there's some holes but the intention of those scenes were pretty clear.

    A lot of the ambiguity comes from things like "they did no testing" and "they decided this far too quick" which are just leaps you'd make to keep the pacing of your game. 

    Milk
    Prophet of Truth
    Avenger

    Oct 25, 2017

    4,292

    No shit. People trying to "um achually " their way out of Joel's choice ruins the entire point of the ending in the first place. If there's no realistic way to create and disperse a vaccine then there's no choice in the first place.

    At the same time, I get it. Obviously you want to realistically analyze parts of a story you're experiencing. But story intent still applies, in this instance, it's literally just better to accept the Fireflies at their word and assume a cure would work. 

    Kalentan
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    50,658

    I feel like the cure having been likely possible is far more interesting because it means Joel's decision has more around it. Cause yeah, his decision to kill them all means a lot more than if the cure was never possible and they were just a bunch idiots cause then Joel was 100% in the right to stop them.
     

    Glio
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    27,779

    Spain

    Red Kong XIX said:

    Never understood why people thought they couldn't.

    That's the whole point of the ending. Joel being selfish, not willing to sacrifice someone he cares about for the greater good.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Because the science behind it was pretty stupid, tbh.

    But you're right, from a dramatic point of view, it needs to be that way. 

    bob1001
    ▲ Legend ▲
    Member

    May 7, 2020

    2,109

    If they can make a cure: The ending is a moral dilemma, where Joel is willing to sacrifice humanity to save the person he loves.

    If they can't make a cure: Joel is saving a child from child murderers.

    I never understood why anyone would prefer a Mario saves Peach style ending instead of the actual interesting ending we got. When you question their ability to make a cure you are arguing the ending is worse than it is. 

    Kalentan
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    50,658

    bob1001 said:

    If they can make a cure: The ending is a moral dilemma, where Joel is willing to sacrifice humanity to save the person he loves.

    If they can't make a cure: Joel is saving a child from child murderers.

    I never understood why anyone would prefer a Mario saves Peach style ending instead of the actual interesting ending we got. When you question their ability to make a cure you are arguing the ending is worse than it is.
    Click to expand...
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    Exactly. 

    Risev
    "This guy are sick"
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    3,896

    Milk said:

    No shit. People trying to "um achually " their way out of Joel's choice ruins the entire point of the ending in the first place. If there's no realistic way to create and disperse a vaccine then there's no choice in the first place.

    At the same time, I get it. Obviously you want to realistically analyze parts of a story you're experiencing. But story intent still applies, in this instance, it's literally just better to accept the Fireflies at their word and assume a cure would work.
    Click to expand...
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    I'd say this is Neil's biggest shortcoming as a writer and is worth criticizing: wanting you to make leaps and just skip through some plot holes for the service of the plot.

    Uncharted 4 also contains an extremely glaring plot hole that you have to gloss over to enjoy the story 

    Kenzodielocke
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    13,948

    The arguments about if the cure would have worked come usually from people who want to justify hie actions.

    The justification there actually is, love.

    Edit: "They didn't even ask her" point is also kind of moot because how often we heard from Ellies mouth that she would have done it. 

    mbpm
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    29,491

    I thought it was more interesting leaving it unknown
     

    psynergyadept
    Shinra Employee
    Member

    Oct 26, 2017

    19,044

    It was always the case; people just obscured things to make themselves feel better about Joel's decision.

    The whole point of the games ending was dealing with the "many by the cost of one/few" trope we've seen before. 

    EatChildren
    Wonder from Down Under
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    7,595

    Boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

    The story is infinitely more interesting and thought provoking, particularly in regards to character motivations, actions, and subsequent consequences, when the climax of the first game is viewed through the lens of the unknown; that people and groups make decisions and take actions, sometimes decisively and recklessly, without knowing for sure what the totality of consequence will be, or being fundamentally unable to know if the risks taken are worth the cost.

    I don't even care about the science behind it. Knowing the cure would/wouldn't work sucks shit and is a boring lame framing of the narrative. Not knowing adds a hefty ambiguity and weight to the choices made. People making decisions, or committing to causes, without ever fully knowing for sure how subsequent events will transpire, is literally how life works is is the ultimate fuel and weight behind our personal journey through guilt and accountability. 

    SirKai
    Member

    Dec 28, 2017

    10,181

    Washington

    Risev said:

    I'd say this is Neil's biggest shortcoming as a writer and is worth criticizing: wanting you to make leaps and just skip through some plot holes for the service of the plot.

    Uncharted 4 also contains an extremely glaring plot hole that you have to gloss over to enjoy the story
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    I'm not a Neil defender, but that's not a shortcoming of a writer; that's just an extremely basic aspect of storytelling to motivate the drama and create interesting circumstances. Pretty much no long-form story that depends on exceptional scenarios is going to be free of contrivance or convenience. Some stories obviously take it too far and it can make the narrative feel too arbitrarily authored and unnatural, and every individual person has their own threshold for how far they can suspend their disbelief, but the willingness to trust writers by suspending our disbelief is what makes stories strong and effective, and a writer depending on their audience to be able to do that, at least to some extent, is not a weakness. 

    Altairre
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    5,211

    Risev said:

    With all due respect to Niel, but that'a bullshit lmao. He also said the exact same thing about Ellie forgiving Joel / knowing he killed the fireflies at the end of the first game just a month or so before the release of Part 2 which gives a clear answer and renders any other interpretation invalid

    Click to expand...
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    It doesn't really matter what he says because within the text there clearly is ambiguity and there is basically no way to retcon that away. Considering their situation, what the audio logs say and the state of the world it's definitely a long shot but it's also THE long shot.

    Risev said:

    I'd say this is Neil's biggest shortcoming as a writer and is worth criticizing: wanting you to make leaps and just skip through some plot holes for the service of the plot.

    Uncharted 4 also contains an extremely glaring plot hole that you have to gloss over to enjoy the story
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    I'm not sure that the situation in LoU qualifies as a plot hole tbh.
     

    Jubern
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    1,597

    Mauricio_Magus said:

    Death of the author applies here, I don't really care what he has to say if it's not in the original game/text.

    It's clearly supposed to be ambiguous and it's staying that way for me.
    Click to expand...
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    Exactly where I stand. Why he would want to clarify/comment on this so long after the fact leaves me dumbfounded.
     

    FTF
    Member

    Oct 28, 2017

    33,203

    New York

    EatChildren said:

    Boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

    The story is infinitely more interesting and thought provoking, particularly in regards to character motivations, actions, and subsequent consequences, when the climax of the first game is viewed through the lens of the unknown; that people and groups make decisions and take actions, sometimes decisively and recklessly, without knowing for sure what the totality of consequence will be, or being fundamentally unable to know if the risks taken are worth the cost.

    I don't even care about the science behind it. Knowing the cure would/wouldn't work sucks shit and is a boring lame framing of the narrative. Not knowing adds a hefty ambiguity and weight to the choices made. People making decisions, or committing to causes, without ever fully knowing for sure how subsequent events will transpire, is literally how life works is is the ultimate fuel and weight behind our personal journey through guilt and accountability.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Yeah, this is what I meant and said sooo much better lol.
     

    Cantaim
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    35,072

    The Stussining

    I always thought it would have worked as well. The entire game is building up to Joel facing the Trolley problem but with Ellie on the track. I don't think it really has any teeth if you just say killing Ellie doesn't do anything.
     

    Crossing Eden
    Member

    Oct 26, 2017

    58,520

    Kenzodielocke said:

    It's kind of moot if you make this so technichal

    Click to expand...
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    You aren't supposed to because it's not real life

    Cantaim said:

    I always thought it would have worked as well. The entire game is building up to Joel facing the Trolley problem but with Ellie on the track. I don't think it really has any teeth if you just say killing Ellie doesn't do anything.

    Click to expand...
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    It's funny because literally nothing about the story ever implies that the cure wouldn't work. For every single thing that gets addressed in a "grounded" way that particular tidbit has never been more than people using it as an excuse to justify/lighten the severity of Joel's actions.

    "Eh does it really matter that he shot up the hospital at the end of the day? Not like the cure would've worked anyways. I, the player/Joel did nothing wrong." 

    TacoSupreme
    Member

    Jul 26, 2019

    2,092

    SirKai said:

    I'm not a Neil defender, but that's not a shortcoming of a writer; that's just an extremely basic aspect of storytelling to motivate the drama and create interesting circumstances. Pretty much no long-form story that depends on exceptional scenarios is going to be free of contrivance or convenience. Some stories obviously take it too far and it can make the narrative feel too arbitrarily authored and unnatural, and every individual person has their own threshold for how far they can suspend their disbelief, but the willingness to trust writers by suspending our disbelief is what makes stories strong and effective, and a writer depending on their audience to be able to do that, at least to some extent, is not a weakness.

    Click to expand...
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    Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree with this. It's not about suspending disbelief, it's about the game deliberately making the whole situation with the Fireflies seem sketchy. I genuinely spit out my drink and started laughing when it was revealed that they were going to instantly take the precious immune person and dissect her almost immediately after getting their hands on her. This goes beyond contrivance or convenience and into the realm of deliberately misleading the player into thinking there's ambiguity. All it would have taken is something denoting the passage of time prior to wanting to scoop out her brain and it would have been fine. It's not about suspending disbelief, it's about making unneeded decisions that mislead the player. 

    GMM
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    5,797

    If they really would have made a cure or not kinda doesn't matter in the context of the story, it's about how Joel put himself over the needs of the world. Everyone out there trying to survive would agree that Ellie's sacrifice would be worth restoring some semblance of peace to the world even if it wasn't a safe bet, Ellie herself would have wanted to save the world but Joel made that choice for her.

    It's all about Joel being the selfish person he is, he chose himself over everyone else. 

    Terbinator
    Member

    Oct 29, 2017

    13,379

    Honestly don't think the cure being viable or not matters at all.

    Joel makes the decision to save Ellie to save his second daughter. It's really not that deep and you also have no agency over this in the game.

    Whether that's the moral thing to do on the promise of a cure is an open question. 

    MrKlaw
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    36,871

    Reality doesn't matterbut from a story perspective it makes sense that at least Joel believes its possible to have a cure - it makes the narrative and his reaction stronger, and the 'my life could have meant something' from Ellie's side stronger to create that necessary tension.

    But I don't like it. 

    Sinah
    Member

    Jun 2, 2022

    1,254

    I mean yeah so? Honestly personally i don't think it even really matters at that point world was already in a absolute shit state with literal cannibal and murderers everywhere and the infected can not be cured so you still have millions of monsters running around everywhere ripping ppl apart.

    There was nothing worth saving even if they did manage to make a cure and actually distribute it which is definitely the bigger problem here considering the state the Fireflys where in and the logistics involved. 

    Last edited: Today at 3:24 AM

    Vyse
    One Winged Slayer
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    1,641

    Joel might have pressed a 100% cure button that kills his daughter but even a 1% chance it was a hail mary by sketchy people guaranteed the slaughter.
     

    Agni Kai
    Member

    Nov 2, 2017

    10,001

    None of youwould let your child die to save other people.

    This new piece of information changes nothing. Joel could've never know. 

    Crossing Eden
    Member

    Oct 26, 2017

    58,520

    Agni Kai said:

    None of youwould let your child die to save other people.

    This new piece of information changes nothing. Joel could've never know.
    Click to expand...
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    He never once doubted that it would work though.
     
    #neil #druckmann #confirms #fireflies #could
    Neil Druckmann confirms the Fireflies could have made a viable cure in interview (+ other insights on the show, games, and future)
    Antoo Member May 1, 2019 4,507 Full on spoilers for TLOU1, TLOU2, and both seasons of the show ahead I saw this clip on the TLOU subreddit making the rounds. Neil goes into the viability of the cure, and he says this: "Could the Fireflies make a cure? Our intent was that, yes, they could. Now, is our science a little shaky that now people are questioning it? Yeah, it was a little shaky and now people are questioning that. I can't say anything. All I can say is that our intent is that they would have made a cure. That makes it a more interesting philosophical question for what Joel does." Click to expand... Click to shrink... / I can't post the interview due to the interviewer, however, if you are a fan of TLOU, I would suggest maybe looking for articles/posts covering it or finding the interview yourself. Neil goes into A LOT. I'll bullet point some highlights. Show highlights: - Neil says Ellie and Dina's relationship was intentionally static in the game. The same approach wouldn't work for the show because shows need movement. - The series needs constant conflict/progression because story is everything in the medium. In games, you can have nothing of high importance going on for a while and still be invested due to interactivity. - He recognizes the divisiveness of the second season from game fans. He's appreciative of their love for the material and finds it cool how people see a game as standing shoulder-to-shoulder with a HBO show. He thinks it highlights how gaming has elevated as a medium. - Abby's motivation and the porch scene were moved up due to the reality that the second game needed multiple seasons to be fully adapted. Neil and Craig felt these elements wouldn't land if they kept the game's structure due to how long TV viewers would have to wait to get to them. There was a fear that the impact of these elements would have been lost due to people not remembering the previous season clearly enough to draw connections. - Craig is very intrigued by the idea of the prophet and wants to expand on who she is in the future. Game highlights: - There was originally a sequence planned for one of the flashbacks in TLOU2 where we would play through an infected attack on Jackson as Ellie alongside Joel. - There was no intent for the WLF/Seraphite conflict to serve as an allegory for the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. He took inspiration from the latter but he also took inspiration from other conflicts. Neil feels certain people online were cherry-picking statements to fit a narrative. He views the game conflict as a secular group clashing against a religious group. - He confirms he would be open to TLOU3 like he said in the documentary but wants to ensure he has the right idea for it that lives up to the series' pedigree - Neil's top priority right now is Intergalactic above all else. He claims it has the deepest gameplay they've ever done.  Last edited: Today at 2:57 AM Red Kong XIX Member Oct 11, 2020 13,276 Never understood why people thought they couldn't. That's the whole point of the ending. Joel being selfish, not willing to sacrifice someone he cares about for the greater good.  ConflictResolver Member Jan 1, 2024 4,907 Midgar I thought it was left vague in both the game and the show until the show's latest episode.   Philippo Developer Verified Oct 28, 2017 8,836 Heh, I liked the ambiguity of not knowing if there was a 100% success guarantee out of sacrificing Ellie.   Lotus One Winged Slayer Member Oct 25, 2017 124,081 I'm still saving her.   FTF Member Oct 28, 2017 33,203 New York Philippo said: Heh, I liked the ambiguity of not knowing if there was a 100% success guarantee out of sacrificing Ellie. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Agreed. It should be left unknown.   Bansai Teyvat Traveler Member Oct 28, 2017 14,176 Maaan Neil really needs to stop, feels like he's stripping away what's left of the nuance with those latest comments on the story. Then again, his story, his right I suppose, my headcannon remains strong and stubborn though. :P btw. interesting interview 🤔  Risev "This guy are sick" Member Oct 27, 2017 3,896 Red Kong XIX said: Never understood why people thought they couldn't. That's the whole point of the ending. Joel being selfish, not willing to sacrifice someone he cares about for the greater good. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I always got the impression the game wanted you to skip through the bullshit and just assume the cure would work, but it's still mediocre writing at best: - the lead doctor was a veterinarian. - the fireflies were desperate, lacking man power, and funds. - literally almost zero testing on Ellie before Just wanting to rip her brain out of her skull - literally zero attention given to the special circumstances that could have led to ellie being immune  The Quentulated Mox Corrupted by Vengeance Member Jun 10, 2022 6,565 hell yeah, next we should ask christopher nolan if the top was gonna fall down   Mauricio_Magus Member Oct 25, 2017 15,827 Death of the author applies here, I don't really care what he has to say if it's not in the original game/text. It's clearly supposed to be ambiguous and it's staying that way for me.  Axiom Member Oct 25, 2017 308 Neil knowing the answer isn't the same as Joel knowing the answer - the only guarantee was that Ellie was going to die.   FTF Member Oct 28, 2017 33,203 New York The Quentulated Mox said: hell yeah, next we should ask christopher nolan if the top was gonna fall down Click to expand... Click to shrink... lol   Threadmarks Clarification on cure New Index OP OP Antoo Member May 1, 2019 4,507 For further context, he also states that if you had a different takeaway on the ending scenario of the first game, that's fully valid as well. He's just clarifying his authorial intent while also acknowledging that a player/viewer may read the situation much differently. I think he finds the philosophical question of saving a loved one versus saving the world more interesting than the specifics of how they got to that point.   New Index harleyvwarren Member Oct 31, 2022 5,299 Illinois I always assumed there was a shot at a cure and that's what Joel denied humanity with his selfish, murderous behavior. There was no ambiguity about it for me playing the second game. It's just not subtle at all.   behOemoth Member Oct 27, 2017 6,687 ConflictResolver said: I thought it was left vague in both the game and the show until the show's latest episode. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I think his answer still keeps it vague, but emphasising that serious possibilities existed   Besiktas Member Sep 2, 2024 914 Why creators their own productruin years after a good product releases. Man just focus on making new stuff instead of clarifying theories.   Risev "This guy are sick" Member Oct 27, 2017 3,896 Antoo said: For further context, he also states that if you had a different takeaway on the ending scenario of the first game, that's fully valid as well. He's just clarifying his authorial intent while also acknowledging that a player/viewer may read the situation much differently. Click to expand... Click to shrink... With all due respect to Niel, but that'a bullshit lmao. He also said the exact same thing about Ellie forgiving Joel / knowing he killed the fireflies at the end of the first game just a month or so before the release of Part 2 which gives a clear answer and renders any other interpretation invalid   Kenzodielocke Member Oct 25, 2017 13,948 It's kind of moot if you make this so technichal Could they make it, could they deliver it, etc.  Lotus One Winged Slayer Member Oct 25, 2017 124,081 FTF said: Agreed. It should be left unknown. Click to expand... Click to shrink... The game came out over 12 years ago. The idea that a creator/author should just shut up and literally never comment on an ambiguous ending or complicated choice is so weird to me, especially when it's just his opinion at the end of the day.  Shoot Member Oct 25, 2017 5,909 Red Kong XIX said: Never understood why people thought they couldn't. That's the whole point of the ending. Joel being selfish, not willing to sacrifice someone he cares about for the greater good. Click to expand... Click to shrink... This. I was surprised to see people online saying they couldn't make a cure. It also obviously had no bearing on Joel's decision to massacre the hospital either. He just went back to doing what he used to do with Tommy for 20 years. Definitely makes Druckmann's recent comment about doing what Joel did sound sociopathic.  VAD Member Oct 28, 2017 6,099 Philippo said: Heh, I liked the ambiguity of not knowing if there was a 100% success guarantee out of sacrificing Ellie. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Yes, me too. I liked that the Fireflies were acting on the basis of hope rather than hard facts. Maybe Joel was right to save Ellie from pointless sacrifice. Maybe Ellie's savior complex was based on nothing and she was right to just live and enjoy life as it was.  Khanimus Avenger Oct 25, 2017 46,469 Greater Vancouver Woah Woah Woah... You mean Joel is a shitty self-serving asshole??!! Say it ain't so...  Zemoco Member Jan 12, 2021 2,621 Death of the author and all that, he really shouldn't confirm something like that. I suppose it's his right, but it hampers the discussion irrevocably. In either case, it does not make any sense on any level to kill the one girl with immunity milliseconds after making the deduction. Not to mention since the Fireflies are murderous, lying pricks anyway, it doesn't make any sense why Joel should believe them just because an omniscient entityconfirmed it.  SirKai Member Dec 28, 2017 10,181 Washington Will never understand why people split hairs over this or claim the supposed "ambiguity" of the vaccine viability adds anything to the story. In BOTH games, every character that matters is confident in the possibility of the vaccine, and that is what is important. People so DESPERATELY want to be morally vindicated that siding with Joel is not just righteous, but also rational even pursuit of a vaccine, even though the most passing glance interpretation of the ending is OBVIOUSLY written to not satisfy that perspective. It's a trolley problem, and the trolley problem is what makes the ending, and Joel's decision, interesting. If it's not actually a trolley problem, the ending and the story lose a lot of their depth and impact.   Last edited: Today at 3:02 AM Risev "This guy are sick" Member Oct 27, 2017 3,896 Khanimus said: Woah Woah Woah... You mean Joel is a shitty self-serving asshole??!! Say it ain't so... Click to expand... Click to shrink... if only he picked up the phone when Neil was calling to tell him the cure works...   SCUMMbag Prophet of Truth - Chicken Chaser Member Oct 25, 2017 7,199 Red Kong XIX said: Never understood why people thought they couldn't. That's the whole point of the ending. Joel being selfish, not willing to sacrifice someone he cares about for the greater good. Click to expand... Click to shrink... This. TLOU isn't a written masterpiece so there's some holes but the intention of those scenes were pretty clear. A lot of the ambiguity comes from things like "they did no testing" and "they decided this far too quick" which are just leaps you'd make to keep the pacing of your game.  Milk Prophet of Truth Avenger Oct 25, 2017 4,292 No shit. People trying to "um achually ☝️🤓" their way out of Joel's choice ruins the entire point of the ending in the first place. If there's no realistic way to create and disperse a vaccine then there's no choice in the first place. At the same time, I get it. Obviously you want to realistically analyze parts of a story you're experiencing. But story intent still applies, in this instance, it's literally just better to accept the Fireflies at their word and assume a cure would work.  Kalentan Member Oct 25, 2017 50,658 I feel like the cure having been likely possible is far more interesting because it means Joel's decision has more around it. Cause yeah, his decision to kill them all means a lot more than if the cure was never possible and they were just a bunch idiots cause then Joel was 100% in the right to stop them.   Glio Member Oct 27, 2017 27,779 Spain Red Kong XIX said: Never understood why people thought they couldn't. That's the whole point of the ending. Joel being selfish, not willing to sacrifice someone he cares about for the greater good. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Because the science behind it was pretty stupid, tbh. But you're right, from a dramatic point of view, it needs to be that way.  bob1001 ▲ Legend ▲ Member May 7, 2020 2,109 If they can make a cure: The ending is a moral dilemma, where Joel is willing to sacrifice humanity to save the person he loves. If they can't make a cure: Joel is saving a child from child murderers. I never understood why anyone would prefer a Mario saves Peach style ending instead of the actual interesting ending we got. When you question their ability to make a cure you are arguing the ending is worse than it is.  Kalentan Member Oct 25, 2017 50,658 bob1001 said: If they can make a cure: The ending is a moral dilemma, where Joel is willing to sacrifice humanity to save the person he loves. If they can't make a cure: Joel is saving a child from child murderers. I never understood why anyone would prefer a Mario saves Peach style ending instead of the actual interesting ending we got. When you question their ability to make a cure you are arguing the ending is worse than it is. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Exactly.  Risev "This guy are sick" Member Oct 27, 2017 3,896 Milk said: No shit. People trying to "um achually ☝️🤓" their way out of Joel's choice ruins the entire point of the ending in the first place. If there's no realistic way to create and disperse a vaccine then there's no choice in the first place. At the same time, I get it. Obviously you want to realistically analyze parts of a story you're experiencing. But story intent still applies, in this instance, it's literally just better to accept the Fireflies at their word and assume a cure would work. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I'd say this is Neil's biggest shortcoming as a writer and is worth criticizing: wanting you to make leaps and just skip through some plot holes for the service of the plot. Uncharted 4 also contains an extremely glaring plot hole that you have to gloss over to enjoy the story  Kenzodielocke Member Oct 25, 2017 13,948 The arguments about if the cure would have worked come usually from people who want to justify hie actions. The justification there actually is, love. Edit: "They didn't even ask her" point is also kind of moot because how often we heard from Ellies mouth that she would have done it.  mbpm Member Oct 25, 2017 29,491 I thought it was more interesting leaving it unknown   psynergyadept Shinra Employee Member Oct 26, 2017 19,044 It was always the case; people just obscured things to make themselves feel better about Joel's decision. The whole point of the games ending was dealing with the "many by the cost of one/few" trope we've seen before.  EatChildren Wonder from Down Under Member Oct 27, 2017 7,595 Boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo The story is infinitely more interesting and thought provoking, particularly in regards to character motivations, actions, and subsequent consequences, when the climax of the first game is viewed through the lens of the unknown; that people and groups make decisions and take actions, sometimes decisively and recklessly, without knowing for sure what the totality of consequence will be, or being fundamentally unable to know if the risks taken are worth the cost. I don't even care about the science behind it. Knowing the cure would/wouldn't work sucks shit and is a boring lame framing of the narrative. Not knowing adds a hefty ambiguity and weight to the choices made. People making decisions, or committing to causes, without ever fully knowing for sure how subsequent events will transpire, is literally how life works is is the ultimate fuel and weight behind our personal journey through guilt and accountability.  SirKai Member Dec 28, 2017 10,181 Washington Risev said: I'd say this is Neil's biggest shortcoming as a writer and is worth criticizing: wanting you to make leaps and just skip through some plot holes for the service of the plot. Uncharted 4 also contains an extremely glaring plot hole that you have to gloss over to enjoy the story Click to expand... Click to shrink... I'm not a Neil defender, but that's not a shortcoming of a writer; that's just an extremely basic aspect of storytelling to motivate the drama and create interesting circumstances. Pretty much no long-form story that depends on exceptional scenarios is going to be free of contrivance or convenience. Some stories obviously take it too far and it can make the narrative feel too arbitrarily authored and unnatural, and every individual person has their own threshold for how far they can suspend their disbelief, but the willingness to trust writers by suspending our disbelief is what makes stories strong and effective, and a writer depending on their audience to be able to do that, at least to some extent, is not a weakness.  Altairre Member Oct 25, 2017 5,211 Risev said: With all due respect to Niel, but that'a bullshit lmao. He also said the exact same thing about Ellie forgiving Joel / knowing he killed the fireflies at the end of the first game just a month or so before the release of Part 2 which gives a clear answer and renders any other interpretation invalid Click to expand... Click to shrink... It doesn't really matter what he says because within the text there clearly is ambiguity and there is basically no way to retcon that away. Considering their situation, what the audio logs say and the state of the world it's definitely a long shot but it's also THE long shot. Risev said: I'd say this is Neil's biggest shortcoming as a writer and is worth criticizing: wanting you to make leaps and just skip through some plot holes for the service of the plot. Uncharted 4 also contains an extremely glaring plot hole that you have to gloss over to enjoy the story Click to expand... Click to shrink... I'm not sure that the situation in LoU qualifies as a plot hole tbh.   Jubern Member Oct 25, 2017 1,597 Mauricio_Magus said: Death of the author applies here, I don't really care what he has to say if it's not in the original game/text. It's clearly supposed to be ambiguous and it's staying that way for me. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Exactly where I stand. Why he would want to clarify/comment on this so long after the fact leaves me dumbfounded.   FTF Member Oct 28, 2017 33,203 New York EatChildren said: Boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo The story is infinitely more interesting and thought provoking, particularly in regards to character motivations, actions, and subsequent consequences, when the climax of the first game is viewed through the lens of the unknown; that people and groups make decisions and take actions, sometimes decisively and recklessly, without knowing for sure what the totality of consequence will be, or being fundamentally unable to know if the risks taken are worth the cost. I don't even care about the science behind it. Knowing the cure would/wouldn't work sucks shit and is a boring lame framing of the narrative. Not knowing adds a hefty ambiguity and weight to the choices made. People making decisions, or committing to causes, without ever fully knowing for sure how subsequent events will transpire, is literally how life works is is the ultimate fuel and weight behind our personal journey through guilt and accountability. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Yeah, this is what I meant and said sooo much better lol.   Cantaim Member Oct 25, 2017 35,072 The Stussining I always thought it would have worked as well. The entire game is building up to Joel facing the Trolley problem but with Ellie on the track. I don't think it really has any teeth if you just say killing Ellie doesn't do anything.   Crossing Eden Member Oct 26, 2017 58,520 Kenzodielocke said: It's kind of moot if you make this so technichal Click to expand... Click to shrink... You aren't supposed to because it's not real life Cantaim said: I always thought it would have worked as well. The entire game is building up to Joel facing the Trolley problem but with Ellie on the track. I don't think it really has any teeth if you just say killing Ellie doesn't do anything. Click to expand... Click to shrink... It's funny because literally nothing about the story ever implies that the cure wouldn't work. For every single thing that gets addressed in a "grounded" way that particular tidbit has never been more than people using it as an excuse to justify/lighten the severity of Joel's actions. "Eh does it really matter that he shot up the hospital at the end of the day? Not like the cure would've worked anyways. I, the player/Joel did nothing wrong."  TacoSupreme Member Jul 26, 2019 2,092 SirKai said: I'm not a Neil defender, but that's not a shortcoming of a writer; that's just an extremely basic aspect of storytelling to motivate the drama and create interesting circumstances. Pretty much no long-form story that depends on exceptional scenarios is going to be free of contrivance or convenience. Some stories obviously take it too far and it can make the narrative feel too arbitrarily authored and unnatural, and every individual person has their own threshold for how far they can suspend their disbelief, but the willingness to trust writers by suspending our disbelief is what makes stories strong and effective, and a writer depending on their audience to be able to do that, at least to some extent, is not a weakness. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree with this. It's not about suspending disbelief, it's about the game deliberately making the whole situation with the Fireflies seem sketchy. I genuinely spit out my drink and started laughing when it was revealed that they were going to instantly take the precious immune person and dissect her almost immediately after getting their hands on her. This goes beyond contrivance or convenience and into the realm of deliberately misleading the player into thinking there's ambiguity. All it would have taken is something denoting the passage of time prior to wanting to scoop out her brain and it would have been fine. It's not about suspending disbelief, it's about making unneeded decisions that mislead the player.  GMM Member Oct 27, 2017 5,797 If they really would have made a cure or not kinda doesn't matter in the context of the story, it's about how Joel put himself over the needs of the world. Everyone out there trying to survive would agree that Ellie's sacrifice would be worth restoring some semblance of peace to the world even if it wasn't a safe bet, Ellie herself would have wanted to save the world but Joel made that choice for her. It's all about Joel being the selfish person he is, he chose himself over everyone else.  Terbinator Member Oct 29, 2017 13,379 Honestly don't think the cure being viable or not matters at all. Joel makes the decision to save Ellie to save his second daughter. It's really not that deep and you also have no agency over this in the game. Whether that's the moral thing to do on the promise of a cure is an open question.  MrKlaw Member Oct 25, 2017 36,871 Reality doesn't matterbut from a story perspective it makes sense that at least Joel believes its possible to have a cure - it makes the narrative and his reaction stronger, and the 'my life could have meant something' from Ellie's side stronger to create that necessary tension. But I don't like it.  Sinah Member Jun 2, 2022 1,254 I mean yeah so? Honestly personally i don't think it even really matters at that point world was already in a absolute shit state with literal cannibal and murderers everywhere and the infected can not be cured so you still have millions of monsters running around everywhere ripping ppl apart. There was nothing worth saving even if they did manage to make a cure and actually distribute it which is definitely the bigger problem here considering the state the Fireflys where in and the logistics involved.  Last edited: Today at 3:24 AM Vyse One Winged Slayer Member Oct 25, 2017 1,641 Joel might have pressed a 100% cure button that kills his daughter but even a 1% chance it was a hail mary by sketchy people guaranteed the slaughter.   Agni Kai Member Nov 2, 2017 10,001 None of youwould let your child die to save other people. This new piece of information changes nothing. Joel could've never know.  Crossing Eden Member Oct 26, 2017 58,520 Agni Kai said: None of youwould let your child die to save other people. This new piece of information changes nothing. Joel could've never know. Click to expand... Click to shrink... He never once doubted that it would work though.   #neil #druckmann #confirms #fireflies #could
    WWW.RESETERA.COM
    Neil Druckmann confirms the Fireflies could have made a viable cure in interview (+ other insights on the show, games, and future)
    Antoo Member May 1, 2019 4,507 Full on spoilers for TLOU1, TLOU2, and both seasons of the show ahead I saw this clip on the TLOU subreddit making the rounds. Neil goes into the viability of the cure, and he says this: "Could the Fireflies make a cure? Our intent was that, yes, they could. Now, is our science a little shaky that now people are questioning it? Yeah, it was a little shaky and now people are questioning that. I can't say anything. All I can say is that our intent is that they would have made a cure. That makes it a more interesting philosophical question for what Joel does." Click to expand... Click to shrink... https://www.reddit.com/r/thelastofus/comments/1krqoz0/neil_debunks_the_cure_viability_debate_once_for/ I can't post the interview due to the interviewer, however, if you are a fan of TLOU, I would suggest maybe looking for articles/posts covering it or finding the interview yourself. Neil goes into A LOT. I'll bullet point some highlights. Show highlights: - Neil says Ellie and Dina's relationship was intentionally static in the game. The same approach wouldn't work for the show because shows need movement. - The series needs constant conflict/progression because story is everything in the medium. In games, you can have nothing of high importance going on for a while and still be invested due to interactivity. - He recognizes the divisiveness of the second season from game fans. He's appreciative of their love for the material and finds it cool how people see a game as standing shoulder-to-shoulder with a HBO show. He thinks it highlights how gaming has elevated as a medium. - Abby's motivation and the porch scene were moved up due to the reality that the second game needed multiple seasons to be fully adapted. Neil and Craig felt these elements wouldn't land if they kept the game's structure due to how long TV viewers would have to wait to get to them. There was a fear that the impact of these elements would have been lost due to people not remembering the previous season clearly enough to draw connections. - Craig is very intrigued by the idea of the prophet and wants to expand on who she is in the future. Game highlights: - There was originally a sequence planned for one of the flashbacks in TLOU2 where we would play through an infected attack on Jackson as Ellie alongside Joel. - There was no intent for the WLF/Seraphite conflict to serve as an allegory for the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. He took inspiration from the latter but he also took inspiration from other conflicts. Neil feels certain people online were cherry-picking statements to fit a narrative. He views the game conflict as a secular group clashing against a religious group. - He confirms he would be open to TLOU3 like he said in the documentary but wants to ensure he has the right idea for it that lives up to the series' pedigree - Neil's top priority right now is Intergalactic above all else. He claims it has the deepest gameplay they've ever done.  Last edited: Today at 2:57 AM Red Kong XIX Member Oct 11, 2020 13,276 Never understood why people thought they couldn't. That's the whole point of the ending. Joel being selfish, not willing to sacrifice someone he cares about for the greater good.  ConflictResolver Member Jan 1, 2024 4,907 Midgar I thought it was left vague in both the game and the show until the show's latest episode.   Philippo Developer Verified Oct 28, 2017 8,836 Heh, I liked the ambiguity of not knowing if there was a 100% success guarantee out of sacrificing Ellie.   Lotus One Winged Slayer Member Oct 25, 2017 124,081 I'm still saving her.   FTF Member Oct 28, 2017 33,203 New York Philippo said: Heh, I liked the ambiguity of not knowing if there was a 100% success guarantee out of sacrificing Ellie. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Agreed. It should be left unknown.   Bansai Teyvat Traveler Member Oct 28, 2017 14,176 Maaan Neil really needs to stop, feels like he's stripping away what's left of the nuance with those latest comments on the story. Then again, his story, his right I suppose, my headcannon remains strong and stubborn though. :P btw. interesting interview 🤔  Risev "This guy are sick" Member Oct 27, 2017 3,896 Red Kong XIX said: Never understood why people thought they couldn't. That's the whole point of the ending. Joel being selfish, not willing to sacrifice someone he cares about for the greater good. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I always got the impression the game wanted you to skip through the bullshit and just assume the cure would work, but it's still mediocre writing at best: - the lead doctor was a veterinarian. - the fireflies were desperate, lacking man power, and funds. - literally almost zero testing on Ellie before Just wanting to rip her brain out of her skull - literally zero attention given to the special circumstances that could have led to ellie being immune  The Quentulated Mox Corrupted by Vengeance Member Jun 10, 2022 6,565 hell yeah, next we should ask christopher nolan if the top was gonna fall down   Mauricio_Magus Member Oct 25, 2017 15,827 Death of the author applies here, I don't really care what he has to say if it's not in the original game/text. It's clearly supposed to be ambiguous and it's staying that way for me.  Axiom Member Oct 25, 2017 308 Neil knowing the answer isn't the same as Joel knowing the answer - the only guarantee was that Ellie was going to die.   FTF Member Oct 28, 2017 33,203 New York The Quentulated Mox said: hell yeah, next we should ask christopher nolan if the top was gonna fall down Click to expand... Click to shrink... lol   Threadmarks Clarification on cure New Index OP OP Antoo Member May 1, 2019 4,507 For further context, he also states that if you had a different takeaway on the ending scenario of the first game, that's fully valid as well. He's just clarifying his authorial intent while also acknowledging that a player/viewer may read the situation much differently. I think he finds the philosophical question of saving a loved one versus saving the world more interesting than the specifics of how they got to that point.   New Index harleyvwarren Member Oct 31, 2022 5,299 Illinois I always assumed there was a shot at a cure and that's what Joel denied humanity with his selfish, murderous behavior. There was no ambiguity about it for me playing the second game. It's just not subtle at all.   behOemoth Member Oct 27, 2017 6,687 ConflictResolver said: I thought it was left vague in both the game and the show until the show's latest episode. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I think his answer still keeps it vague, but emphasising that serious possibilities existed   Besiktas Member Sep 2, 2024 914 Why creators their own productruin years after a good product releases. Man just focus on making new stuff instead of clarifying theories.   Risev "This guy are sick" Member Oct 27, 2017 3,896 Antoo said: For further context, he also states that if you had a different takeaway on the ending scenario of the first game, that's fully valid as well. He's just clarifying his authorial intent while also acknowledging that a player/viewer may read the situation much differently. Click to expand... Click to shrink... With all due respect to Niel, but that'a bullshit lmao. He also said the exact same thing about Ellie forgiving Joel / knowing he killed the fireflies at the end of the first game just a month or so before the release of Part 2 which gives a clear answer and renders any other interpretation invalid   Kenzodielocke Member Oct 25, 2017 13,948 It's kind of moot if you make this so technichal Could they make it, could they deliver it, etc.  Lotus One Winged Slayer Member Oct 25, 2017 124,081 FTF said: Agreed. It should be left unknown. Click to expand... Click to shrink... The game came out over 12 years ago. The idea that a creator/author should just shut up and literally never comment on an ambiguous ending or complicated choice is so weird to me, especially when it's just his opinion at the end of the day.  Shoot Member Oct 25, 2017 5,909 Red Kong XIX said: Never understood why people thought they couldn't. That's the whole point of the ending. Joel being selfish, not willing to sacrifice someone he cares about for the greater good. Click to expand... Click to shrink... This. I was surprised to see people online saying they couldn't make a cure. It also obviously had no bearing on Joel's decision to massacre the hospital either. He just went back to doing what he used to do with Tommy for 20 years. Definitely makes Druckmann's recent comment about doing what Joel did sound sociopathic.  VAD Member Oct 28, 2017 6,099 Philippo said: Heh, I liked the ambiguity of not knowing if there was a 100% success guarantee out of sacrificing Ellie. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Yes, me too. I liked that the Fireflies were acting on the basis of hope rather than hard facts. Maybe Joel was right to save Ellie from pointless sacrifice. Maybe Ellie's savior complex was based on nothing and she was right to just live and enjoy life as it was.  Khanimus Avenger Oct 25, 2017 46,469 Greater Vancouver Woah Woah Woah... You mean Joel is a shitty self-serving asshole??!! Say it ain't so...  Zemoco Member Jan 12, 2021 2,621 Death of the author and all that, he really shouldn't confirm something like that. I suppose it's his right, but it hampers the discussion irrevocably. In either case, it does not make any sense on any level to kill the one girl with immunity milliseconds after making the deduction. Not to mention since the Fireflies are murderous, lying pricks anyway, it doesn't make any sense why Joel should believe them just because an omniscient entity (as far as the universe is concerned) confirmed it.  SirKai Member Dec 28, 2017 10,181 Washington Will never understand why people split hairs over this or claim the supposed "ambiguity" of the vaccine viability adds anything to the story. In BOTH games, every character that matters is confident in the possibility of the vaccine, and that is what is important. People so DESPERATELY want to be morally vindicated that siding with Joel is not just righteous, but also rational even pursuit of a vaccine, even though the most passing glance interpretation of the ending is OBVIOUSLY written to not satisfy that perspective. It's a trolley problem, and the trolley problem is what makes the ending, and Joel's decision, interesting. If it's not actually a trolley problem, the ending and the story lose a lot of their depth and impact.   Last edited: Today at 3:02 AM Risev "This guy are sick" Member Oct 27, 2017 3,896 Khanimus said: Woah Woah Woah... You mean Joel is a shitty self-serving asshole??!! Say it ain't so... Click to expand... Click to shrink... if only he picked up the phone when Neil was calling to tell him the cure works...   SCUMMbag Prophet of Truth - Chicken Chaser Member Oct 25, 2017 7,199 Red Kong XIX said: Never understood why people thought they couldn't. That's the whole point of the ending. Joel being selfish, not willing to sacrifice someone he cares about for the greater good. Click to expand... Click to shrink... This. TLOU isn't a written masterpiece so there's some holes but the intention of those scenes were pretty clear. A lot of the ambiguity comes from things like "they did no testing" and "they decided this far too quick" which are just leaps you'd make to keep the pacing of your game.  Milk Prophet of Truth Avenger Oct 25, 2017 4,292 No shit. People trying to "um achually ☝️🤓" their way out of Joel's choice ruins the entire point of the ending in the first place. If there's no realistic way to create and disperse a vaccine then there's no choice in the first place. At the same time, I get it. Obviously you want to realistically analyze parts of a story you're experiencing. But story intent still applies, in this instance, it's literally just better to accept the Fireflies at their word and assume a cure would work.  Kalentan Member Oct 25, 2017 50,658 I feel like the cure having been likely possible is far more interesting because it means Joel's decision has more around it. Cause yeah, his decision to kill them all means a lot more than if the cure was never possible and they were just a bunch idiots cause then Joel was 100% in the right to stop them.   Glio Member Oct 27, 2017 27,779 Spain Red Kong XIX said: Never understood why people thought they couldn't. That's the whole point of the ending. Joel being selfish, not willing to sacrifice someone he cares about for the greater good. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Because the science behind it was pretty stupid, tbh. But you're right, from a dramatic point of view, it needs to be that way.  bob1001 ▲ Legend ▲ Member May 7, 2020 2,109 If they can make a cure: The ending is a moral dilemma, where Joel is willing to sacrifice humanity to save the person he loves. If they can't make a cure: Joel is saving a child from child murderers. I never understood why anyone would prefer a Mario saves Peach style ending instead of the actual interesting ending we got. When you question their ability to make a cure you are arguing the ending is worse than it is.  Kalentan Member Oct 25, 2017 50,658 bob1001 said: If they can make a cure: The ending is a moral dilemma, where Joel is willing to sacrifice humanity to save the person he loves. If they can't make a cure: Joel is saving a child from child murderers. I never understood why anyone would prefer a Mario saves Peach style ending instead of the actual interesting ending we got. When you question their ability to make a cure you are arguing the ending is worse than it is. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Exactly.  Risev "This guy are sick" Member Oct 27, 2017 3,896 Milk said: No shit. People trying to "um achually ☝️🤓" their way out of Joel's choice ruins the entire point of the ending in the first place. If there's no realistic way to create and disperse a vaccine then there's no choice in the first place. At the same time, I get it. Obviously you want to realistically analyze parts of a story you're experiencing. But story intent still applies, in this instance, it's literally just better to accept the Fireflies at their word and assume a cure would work. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I'd say this is Neil's biggest shortcoming as a writer and is worth criticizing: wanting you to make leaps and just skip through some plot holes for the service of the plot. Uncharted 4 also contains an extremely glaring plot hole that you have to gloss over to enjoy the story  Kenzodielocke Member Oct 25, 2017 13,948 The arguments about if the cure would have worked come usually from people who want to justify hie actions. The justification there actually is, love. Edit: "They didn't even ask her" point is also kind of moot because how often we heard from Ellies mouth that she would have done it.  mbpm Member Oct 25, 2017 29,491 I thought it was more interesting leaving it unknown   psynergyadept Shinra Employee Member Oct 26, 2017 19,044 It was always the case; people just obscured things to make themselves feel better about Joel's decision. The whole point of the games ending was dealing with the "Save many by the cost of one/few" trope we've seen before.  EatChildren Wonder from Down Under Member Oct 27, 2017 7,595 Boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo The story is infinitely more interesting and thought provoking, particularly in regards to character motivations, actions, and subsequent consequences, when the climax of the first game is viewed through the lens of the unknown; that people and groups make decisions and take actions, sometimes decisively and recklessly, without knowing for sure what the totality of consequence will be, or being fundamentally unable to know if the risks taken are worth the cost. I don't even care about the science behind it (which is dumb). Knowing the cure would/wouldn't work sucks shit and is a boring lame framing of the narrative. Not knowing adds a hefty ambiguity and weight to the choices made. People making decisions, or committing to causes, without ever fully knowing for sure how subsequent events will transpire, is literally how life works is is the ultimate fuel and weight behind our personal journey through guilt and accountability.  SirKai Member Dec 28, 2017 10,181 Washington Risev said: I'd say this is Neil's biggest shortcoming as a writer and is worth criticizing: wanting you to make leaps and just skip through some plot holes for the service of the plot. Uncharted 4 also contains an extremely glaring plot hole that you have to gloss over to enjoy the story Click to expand... Click to shrink... I'm not a Neil defender, but that's not a shortcoming of a writer; that's just an extremely basic aspect of storytelling to motivate the drama and create interesting circumstances. Pretty much no long-form story that depends on exceptional scenarios is going to be free of contrivance or convenience. Some stories obviously take it too far and it can make the narrative feel too arbitrarily authored and unnatural, and every individual person has their own threshold for how far they can suspend their disbelief, but the willingness to trust writers by suspending our disbelief is what makes stories strong and effective, and a writer depending on their audience to be able to do that, at least to some extent, is not a weakness.  Altairre Member Oct 25, 2017 5,211 Risev said: With all due respect to Niel, but that'a bullshit lmao. He also said the exact same thing about Ellie forgiving Joel / knowing he killed the fireflies at the end of the first game just a month or so before the release of Part 2 which gives a clear answer and renders any other interpretation invalid Click to expand... Click to shrink... It doesn't really matter what he says because within the text there clearly is ambiguity and there is basically no way to retcon that away. Considering their situation, what the audio logs say and the state of the world it's definitely a long shot but it's also THE long shot. Risev said: I'd say this is Neil's biggest shortcoming as a writer and is worth criticizing: wanting you to make leaps and just skip through some plot holes for the service of the plot. Uncharted 4 also contains an extremely glaring plot hole that you have to gloss over to enjoy the story Click to expand... Click to shrink... I'm not sure that the situation in LoU qualifies as a plot hole tbh.   Jubern Member Oct 25, 2017 1,597 Mauricio_Magus said: Death of the author applies here, I don't really care what he has to say if it's not in the original game/text. It's clearly supposed to be ambiguous and it's staying that way for me. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Exactly where I stand. Why he would want to clarify/comment on this so long after the fact leaves me dumbfounded.   FTF Member Oct 28, 2017 33,203 New York EatChildren said: Boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo The story is infinitely more interesting and thought provoking, particularly in regards to character motivations, actions, and subsequent consequences, when the climax of the first game is viewed through the lens of the unknown; that people and groups make decisions and take actions, sometimes decisively and recklessly, without knowing for sure what the totality of consequence will be, or being fundamentally unable to know if the risks taken are worth the cost. I don't even care about the science behind it (which is dumb). Knowing the cure would/wouldn't work sucks shit and is a boring lame framing of the narrative. Not knowing adds a hefty ambiguity and weight to the choices made. People making decisions, or committing to causes, without ever fully knowing for sure how subsequent events will transpire, is literally how life works is is the ultimate fuel and weight behind our personal journey through guilt and accountability. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Yeah, this is what I meant and said sooo much better lol.   Cantaim Member Oct 25, 2017 35,072 The Stussining I always thought it would have worked as well. The entire game is building up to Joel facing the Trolley problem but with Ellie on the track. I don't think it really has any teeth if you just say killing Ellie doesn't do anything.   Crossing Eden Member Oct 26, 2017 58,520 Kenzodielocke said: It's kind of moot if you make this so technichal Click to expand... Click to shrink... You aren't supposed to because it's not real life Cantaim said: I always thought it would have worked as well. The entire game is building up to Joel facing the Trolley problem but with Ellie on the track. I don't think it really has any teeth if you just say killing Ellie doesn't do anything. Click to expand... Click to shrink... It's funny because literally nothing about the story ever implies that the cure wouldn't work. For every single thing that gets addressed in a "grounded" way that particular tidbit has never been more than people using it as an excuse to justify/lighten the severity of Joel's actions. "Eh does it really matter that he shot up the hospital at the end of the day? Not like the cure would've worked anyways. I, the player/Joel did nothing wrong."  TacoSupreme Member Jul 26, 2019 2,092 SirKai said: I'm not a Neil defender, but that's not a shortcoming of a writer; that's just an extremely basic aspect of storytelling to motivate the drama and create interesting circumstances. Pretty much no long-form story that depends on exceptional scenarios is going to be free of contrivance or convenience. Some stories obviously take it too far and it can make the narrative feel too arbitrarily authored and unnatural, and every individual person has their own threshold for how far they can suspend their disbelief, but the willingness to trust writers by suspending our disbelief is what makes stories strong and effective, and a writer depending on their audience to be able to do that, at least to some extent, is not a weakness. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree with this. It's not about suspending disbelief, it's about the game deliberately making the whole situation with the Fireflies seem sketchy. I genuinely spit out my drink and started laughing when it was revealed that they were going to instantly take the precious immune person and dissect her almost immediately after getting their hands on her. This goes beyond contrivance or convenience and into the realm of deliberately misleading the player into thinking there's ambiguity. All it would have taken is something denoting the passage of time prior to wanting to scoop out her brain and it would have been fine. It's not about suspending disbelief, it's about making unneeded decisions that mislead the player.  GMM Member Oct 27, 2017 5,797 If they really would have made a cure or not kinda doesn't matter in the context of the story, it's about how Joel put himself over the needs of the world. Everyone out there trying to survive would agree that Ellie's sacrifice would be worth restoring some semblance of peace to the world even if it wasn't a safe bet, Ellie herself would have wanted to save the world but Joel made that choice for her. It's all about Joel being the selfish person he is, he chose himself over everyone else.  Terbinator Member Oct 29, 2017 13,379 Honestly don't think the cure being viable or not matters at all. Joel makes the decision to save Ellie to save his second daughter. It's really not that deep and you also have no agency over this in the game. Whether that's the moral thing to do on the promise of a cure is an open question.  MrKlaw Member Oct 25, 2017 36,871 Reality doesn't matter (I disagree - they are barely properly staffed, they've never done this before or seen it before so its a hail mary at best etc etc all the discussion) but from a story perspective it makes sense that at least Joel believes its possible to have a cure - it makes the narrative and his reaction stronger, and the 'my life could have meant something' from Ellie's side stronger to create that necessary tension. But I don't like it.  Sinah Member Jun 2, 2022 1,254 I mean yeah so? Honestly personally i don't think it even really matters at that point world was already in a absolute shit state with literal cannibal and murderers everywhere and the infected can not be cured so you still have millions of monsters running around everywhere ripping ppl apart. There was nothing worth saving even if they did manage to make a cure and actually distribute it which is definitely the bigger problem here considering the state the Fireflys where in and the logistics involved.  Last edited: Today at 3:24 AM Vyse One Winged Slayer Member Oct 25, 2017 1,641 Joel might have pressed a 100% cure button that kills his daughter but even a 1% chance it was a hail mary by sketchy people guaranteed the slaughter.   Agni Kai Member Nov 2, 2017 10,001 None of you (and I do mean none of you) would let your child die to save other people. This new piece of information changes nothing. Joel could've never know.  Crossing Eden Member Oct 26, 2017 58,520 Agni Kai said: None of you (and I do mean none of you) would let your child die to save other people. This new piece of information changes nothing. Joel could've never know. Click to expand... Click to shrink... He never once doubted that it would work though.  
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  • Withings BPM Vision Review: At-Home Blood Pressure Monitoring

    If you have a history of hypertension, you need an easy at-home blood pressure monitor that keeps a long-term log of your readings.
    #withings #bpm #vision #review #athome
    Withings BPM Vision Review: At-Home Blood Pressure Monitoring
    If you have a history of hypertension, you need an easy at-home blood pressure monitor that keeps a long-term log of your readings. #withings #bpm #vision #review #athome
    WWW.WIRED.COM
    Withings BPM Vision Review: At-Home Blood Pressure Monitoring
    If you have a history of hypertension, you need an easy at-home blood pressure monitor that keeps a long-term log of your readings.
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  • Nikon SLM Solutions, ATI, and BPMI Collaborate to Boost Hypersonic and Naval Propulsion Manufacturing

    Metal 3D printer manufacturer Nikon SLM Solutions has formed a strategic partnership with U.S.-based specialty materials producer Allegheny Technologies Incorporatedand engineering firm Bechtel Plant Machinery, Inc.to drive advancements in hypersonic and naval propulsion technologies. As part of this collaboration, ATI has acquired the NXG 600E metal additive manufacturing system to boost production capacity for critical components supporting U.S. Navy and Department of Defense programs at its manufacturing sites.
    “The NXG 600E’s expansive build volume and sophisticated support structure capabilities align seamlessly with U.S. Navy propulsion requirements,” expressed Nathan Weiderspahn, BPMI Executive Manager, Industrial Base Management. “Nikon SLM Solutions’ cutting-edge additive manufacturing technology is set to play a pivotal role in advancing the U.S. Navy’s operational readiness, contributing to the maintenance and enhancement of our nation’s fleet.”
    SLM Solutions’ NXG XII 600E 3D printer. Image via SLM Solutions.
    Expanding Defense Manufacturing with the NXG 600E
    As part of this partnership, ATI has purchased the NXG 600E metal additive manufacturing system. The system was selected to address the technical requirements of U.S. Navy propulsion and hypersonic weapon components. With its 1.5-meter Z-axis and high production capacity, the NXG 600E is intended to support ATI’s manufacturing capabilities in defense applications.
    ATI plans to utilize Inconel 625 with the NXG 600E, a high-performance alloy widely used in hypersonic and naval propulsion systems, as well as various demanding industrial applications. The June delivery of the NXG 600E is expected to enhance ATI’s metal additive manufacturing capabilities, leveraging their proven success with the SLM125 and expertise in Nikon SLM’s open machine architecture and advanced parameter development.
    SLM 280 3D printer. Photo via Nikon SLM Solutions.
    “In the dynamic landscape of additive manufacturing, Nikon SLM Solutions is taking a significant leap forward,” said Sam O’Leary, CEO. ” This strategic development underscores our commitment to delivering American-made ingenuity, superior technology, and empowering the defense and aerospace sectors with cutting-edge additive manufacturing capabilities,” said Sam O’Leary, CEO of Nikon SLM Solutions.
    Industrial Adoption of the NXG XII 600E
    Launched in 2022, the NXG XII 600E by SLM Solutions is a metal additive manufacturing system with a build volume of 600 × 600 × 1,500 mm enabled by a 1.5-meter Z-axis. Equipped with twelve 1,000-watt lasers, the NXG delivers fast and accurate melting of metal powder, enabling the production of high-quality, uniform parts. The system is designed to handle large, complex components in a single build and supports industrial-scale production with features aimed at improving speed and process control. It includes workflow enhancements intended to maximize machine uptime and reduce production cycle times.
    Among the recent adopters of the NXG XII 600 technology is German multinational engineering and technology company Bosch launched a new metal additive manufacturing facility at its Nuremberg plant, investing nearly €6 million.  At the heart of the facility is a Nikon SLM Solutions NXG XII 600 metal 3D printer, which the company says will play a key role in producing complex metal parts more efficiently. With this addition, the automotive giant sees itself as the first Tier-1 automotive supplier in Europe to operate a facility in this performance class.
    Elsewhere, semiconductor manufacturing company Veeco started using Nikon SLM Solutions’ NXG XII 600 metal AM system to advance its production processes. Designed for creating intricate components such as gas delivery systems and heat exchangers, the technology enhances precision and efficiency in semiconductor manufacturing. Having integrated additive manufacturing into its operations, Veeco aims to enhance productivity and accelerate time-to-market.
    Take the 3DPI Reader Survey — shape the future of AM reporting in under 5 minutes.
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    Subscribe to the 3D Printing Industry newsletter to keep up with the latest 3D printing news.
    You can also follow us on LinkedIn, and subscribe to the 3D Printing Industry Youtube channel to access more exclusive content.
    Featured image shows Nikon 3D Printing. Photo via Nikon.

    Paloma Duran
    Paloma Duran holds a BA in International Relations and an MA in Journalism. Specializing in writing, podcasting, and content and event creation, she works across politics, energy, mining, and technology. With a passion for global trends, Paloma is particularly interested in the impact of technology like 3D printing on shaping our future.
    #nikon #slm #solutions #ati #bpmi
    Nikon SLM Solutions, ATI, and BPMI Collaborate to Boost Hypersonic and Naval Propulsion Manufacturing
    Metal 3D printer manufacturer Nikon SLM Solutions has formed a strategic partnership with U.S.-based specialty materials producer Allegheny Technologies Incorporatedand engineering firm Bechtel Plant Machinery, Inc.to drive advancements in hypersonic and naval propulsion technologies. As part of this collaboration, ATI has acquired the NXG 600E metal additive manufacturing system to boost production capacity for critical components supporting U.S. Navy and Department of Defense programs at its manufacturing sites. “The NXG 600E’s expansive build volume and sophisticated support structure capabilities align seamlessly with U.S. Navy propulsion requirements,” expressed Nathan Weiderspahn, BPMI Executive Manager, Industrial Base Management. “Nikon SLM Solutions’ cutting-edge additive manufacturing technology is set to play a pivotal role in advancing the U.S. Navy’s operational readiness, contributing to the maintenance and enhancement of our nation’s fleet.” SLM Solutions’ NXG XII 600E 3D printer. Image via SLM Solutions. Expanding Defense Manufacturing with the NXG 600E As part of this partnership, ATI has purchased the NXG 600E metal additive manufacturing system. The system was selected to address the technical requirements of U.S. Navy propulsion and hypersonic weapon components. With its 1.5-meter Z-axis and high production capacity, the NXG 600E is intended to support ATI’s manufacturing capabilities in defense applications. ATI plans to utilize Inconel 625 with the NXG 600E, a high-performance alloy widely used in hypersonic and naval propulsion systems, as well as various demanding industrial applications. The June delivery of the NXG 600E is expected to enhance ATI’s metal additive manufacturing capabilities, leveraging their proven success with the SLM125 and expertise in Nikon SLM’s open machine architecture and advanced parameter development. SLM 280 3D printer. Photo via Nikon SLM Solutions. “In the dynamic landscape of additive manufacturing, Nikon SLM Solutions is taking a significant leap forward,” said Sam O’Leary, CEO. ” This strategic development underscores our commitment to delivering American-made ingenuity, superior technology, and empowering the defense and aerospace sectors with cutting-edge additive manufacturing capabilities,” said Sam O’Leary, CEO of Nikon SLM Solutions. Industrial Adoption of the NXG XII 600E Launched in 2022, the NXG XII 600E by SLM Solutions is a metal additive manufacturing system with a build volume of 600 × 600 × 1,500 mm enabled by a 1.5-meter Z-axis. Equipped with twelve 1,000-watt lasers, the NXG delivers fast and accurate melting of metal powder, enabling the production of high-quality, uniform parts. The system is designed to handle large, complex components in a single build and supports industrial-scale production with features aimed at improving speed and process control. It includes workflow enhancements intended to maximize machine uptime and reduce production cycle times. Among the recent adopters of the NXG XII 600 technology is German multinational engineering and technology company Bosch launched a new metal additive manufacturing facility at its Nuremberg plant, investing nearly €6 million.  At the heart of the facility is a Nikon SLM Solutions NXG XII 600 metal 3D printer, which the company says will play a key role in producing complex metal parts more efficiently. With this addition, the automotive giant sees itself as the first Tier-1 automotive supplier in Europe to operate a facility in this performance class. Elsewhere, semiconductor manufacturing company Veeco started using Nikon SLM Solutions’ NXG XII 600 metal AM system to advance its production processes. Designed for creating intricate components such as gas delivery systems and heat exchangers, the technology enhances precision and efficiency in semiconductor manufacturing. Having integrated additive manufacturing into its operations, Veeco aims to enhance productivity and accelerate time-to-market. Take the 3DPI Reader Survey — shape the future of AM reporting in under 5 minutes. Who won the 2024 3D Printing Industry Awards? Subscribe to the 3D Printing Industry newsletter to keep up with the latest 3D printing news. You can also follow us on LinkedIn, and subscribe to the 3D Printing Industry Youtube channel to access more exclusive content. Featured image shows Nikon 3D Printing. Photo via Nikon. Paloma Duran Paloma Duran holds a BA in International Relations and an MA in Journalism. Specializing in writing, podcasting, and content and event creation, she works across politics, energy, mining, and technology. With a passion for global trends, Paloma is particularly interested in the impact of technology like 3D printing on shaping our future. #nikon #slm #solutions #ati #bpmi
    3DPRINTINGINDUSTRY.COM
    Nikon SLM Solutions, ATI, and BPMI Collaborate to Boost Hypersonic and Naval Propulsion Manufacturing
    Metal 3D printer manufacturer Nikon SLM Solutions has formed a strategic partnership with U.S.-based specialty materials producer Allegheny Technologies Incorporated (ATI) and engineering firm Bechtel Plant Machinery, Inc. (BPMI) to drive advancements in hypersonic and naval propulsion technologies. As part of this collaboration, ATI has acquired the NXG 600E metal additive manufacturing system to boost production capacity for critical components supporting U.S. Navy and Department of Defense programs at its manufacturing sites. “The NXG 600E’s expansive build volume and sophisticated support structure capabilities align seamlessly with U.S. Navy propulsion requirements,” expressed Nathan Weiderspahn, BPMI Executive Manager, Industrial Base Management. “Nikon SLM Solutions’ cutting-edge additive manufacturing technology is set to play a pivotal role in advancing the U.S. Navy’s operational readiness, contributing to the maintenance and enhancement of our nation’s fleet.” SLM Solutions’ NXG XII 600E 3D printer. Image via SLM Solutions. Expanding Defense Manufacturing with the NXG 600E As part of this partnership, ATI has purchased the NXG 600E metal additive manufacturing system. The system was selected to address the technical requirements of U.S. Navy propulsion and hypersonic weapon components. With its 1.5-meter Z-axis and high production capacity, the NXG 600E is intended to support ATI’s manufacturing capabilities in defense applications. ATI plans to utilize Inconel 625 with the NXG 600E, a high-performance alloy widely used in hypersonic and naval propulsion systems, as well as various demanding industrial applications. The June delivery of the NXG 600E is expected to enhance ATI’s metal additive manufacturing capabilities, leveraging their proven success with the SLM125 and expertise in Nikon SLM’s open machine architecture and advanced parameter development. SLM 280 3D printer. Photo via Nikon SLM Solutions. “In the dynamic landscape of additive manufacturing, Nikon SLM Solutions is taking a significant leap forward,” said Sam O’Leary, CEO. ” This strategic development underscores our commitment to delivering American-made ingenuity, superior technology, and empowering the defense and aerospace sectors with cutting-edge additive manufacturing capabilities,” said Sam O’Leary, CEO of Nikon SLM Solutions. Industrial Adoption of the NXG XII 600E Launched in 2022, the NXG XII 600E by SLM Solutions is a metal additive manufacturing system with a build volume of 600 × 600 × 1,500 mm enabled by a 1.5-meter Z-axis. Equipped with twelve 1,000-watt lasers, the NXG delivers fast and accurate melting of metal powder, enabling the production of high-quality, uniform parts. The system is designed to handle large, complex components in a single build and supports industrial-scale production with features aimed at improving speed and process control. It includes workflow enhancements intended to maximize machine uptime and reduce production cycle times. Among the recent adopters of the NXG XII 600 technology is German multinational engineering and technology company Bosch launched a new metal additive manufacturing facility at its Nuremberg plant, investing nearly €6 million.  At the heart of the facility is a Nikon SLM Solutions NXG XII 600 metal 3D printer, which the company says will play a key role in producing complex metal parts more efficiently. With this addition, the automotive giant sees itself as the first Tier-1 automotive supplier in Europe to operate a facility in this performance class. Elsewhere, semiconductor manufacturing company Veeco started using Nikon SLM Solutions’ NXG XII 600 metal AM system to advance its production processes. Designed for creating intricate components such as gas delivery systems and heat exchangers, the technology enhances precision and efficiency in semiconductor manufacturing. Having integrated additive manufacturing into its operations, Veeco aims to enhance productivity and accelerate time-to-market. Take the 3DPI Reader Survey — shape the future of AM reporting in under 5 minutes. Who won the 2024 3D Printing Industry Awards? Subscribe to the 3D Printing Industry newsletter to keep up with the latest 3D printing news. You can also follow us on LinkedIn, and subscribe to the 3D Printing Industry Youtube channel to access more exclusive content. Featured image shows Nikon 3D Printing. Photo via Nikon. Paloma Duran Paloma Duran holds a BA in International Relations and an MA in Journalism. Specializing in writing, podcasting, and content and event creation, she works across politics, energy, mining, and technology. With a passion for global trends, Paloma is particularly interested in the impact of technology like 3D printing on shaping our future.
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  • Eight Sleep Pod 4 Review: Better Than Your Therapist?

    I've been following Eight Sleep products for a few years and was excited to learn that the company is entering the UAE and Saudi markets. As the name implies, the company makes products that help you sleep better at night.
    The Eight Sleep Pod 4 is a smart mattress cover that adjusts temperature, tracks sleep metrics, and detects snoring. With summer approaching and the AC going into full blast, the Sleep Pod 4 could be a great solution for those with partners who have different temperature tolerances.
    Pricing and Availability
    The Eight Sleep Pod 4is available in regular and Ultra varieties. The regular version comes with the Pod and bed cover and costs AED 9,999 for a queen size, AED 10,799 for a king size, and AED 11,799 for an Emperor size.
    The Ultra version adds an elevating base that lifts the mattress into positions ideal for sleeping, reading, or relaxing. This adds about AED 8,000 to the base prices. Eight Sleep sent me the non-ultra version for this review.
    In addition to the price of the Sleep Pod, you have to pay AED 65 per month for AutoPilot features that adjust temperatures automatically, let you set alarms, and provide sleep and health reports. I think Sleep Eight should bundle at least one year's worth of subscription with any Pod purchase.

    Key Features
    The Pod 4 offers advanced sleep technology through a mattress cover compatible with existing beds. Its main features include:

    Temperature Regulation: Dual-zone climate control adjusts each side of the bed to as low as 13°C. The system uses water flow to regulate the temperature of your mattress.
    Sleep Tracking: Health-grade sensors monitor heart rate, heart rate variability, respiratory rate, and sleep stages.
    Snore Detection: The Pod 4 vibrates to identify snoring and alerts users through the app. The more expensive Pod 4 Ultra model automatically elevates the bed to reduce snoring.
    Autopilot AI: The algorithm personalises temperature and elevation based on bio feedback, user preferences, and data from other users.
    GentleRise Alarm: Vibration and thermal changes wake users gently, replacing traditional alarms.
    App Integration: The Eight Sleep app provides sleep insights, temperature scheduling, and control over settings.

    Design and Build Quality
    The Eight Sleep Pod 4 includes a mattress cover and a special fitted sheet covering your mattress. It is made of breathable fabric, which is comfortable to lie on, though you'll likely add a bedsheet above it.
    You can get this in multiple sizes. I was sent a 180x200 cms sized cover for my king-sized bed. This cover has a mesh layer below it that circulates water to make your bed cooler or warmer. This layer also has sensors that track how you sleep.
    Finally, there's the Bedside Hub, a desktop PC-sized box that controls the flow of water that cools or heats the Active Grid. It also connects to your Wi-Fi network. The mattress cover is connected to the Pod using a rather thick cable that I had concerns with but it tucked away easily and hasn't caused any concerns in the two months I've been using it.

    Installation requires water for the Hub's tank, which is supposed to be refilled every few months. The setup took me about an hour, and it is easier with two people to lift your mattress. I had to fill the water container in the bedside hub three times until it was properly dispersed to the mesh.
    The app guides you through all of this, starting with connecting your Pod to your Wi-Fi, which didn't go as planned. The Wi-Fi performance on the Hub is not great, and I had to move an access point into my bedroom for it to maintain a good connection.

    Features and Usage
    Once you set up the Pod, everything else is controlled and managed through the app, which is available for iPhone and Android phones. The app underwent a major overhaul during my testing and now looks more modern and streamlined.Recommended by Our Editors
    Using the app, you can schedule temperature changes, view sleep reports, and adjust all the settings for the Pod. You can set sepecific temperature for bedtime, later at night and at dawn. I set the schedule for my bedtime, and the Hub went into action about half an hour before that, cooling it to my desired temperature which is 2 degrees below the room temperature. You can also set the temperatures to be absolute values, such as 18 degrees.
    When I first started using the Eight Sleep Pod, I had set the temperatures at 19C but that proved to be very cool for my liking. After a few days of fiddling, I settled on cooling the nighttime temperature to 2 degrees lower than the bedtime and the dawn temperature to be 2 degrees higher than the room temperature.

    With AutoPilot, the bed automatically changes the temperature by a couple of degrees to help you get the best sleep when it detects you in REM or deep sleep states, which theoretically improves your readiness for the next day. You can also manually adjust the temperature by double or triple tapping your side of the bed to cool or warm it up.
    Another function of the Eight Sleep is to provide sleep tracking, which sounds great as you won't need to wear a device like the Apple Watch or Oura Ring to bed. I use an Oura Ring that I usually wear to bed, and I compared the stats it offered to the Eight Sleep.

    Benchmark
    Oura Ring
    Eight Sleep Pod 4

    Time Slept
    5h 43m
    4h 19m

    Deep Sleep
    40m
    46m

    REM
    50m
    1h 15s

    Resting Heart Rate
    73bpm
    74pm

    While this is the data for just one night, during my two weeks of testing, I found that the Oura Ring's results were more consistent than those of the Eight Sleep, and there's a good reason why.
    The Eight Sleep mattress cover is split into two parts to track you and your partner. If I moved towards my partner's side or if she moved towards my side, the data would not be analysed properly. Similarly, the data would be completely thrown off if our kid decided to jump in the bed in the middle of the night, which happened quite a few times while I was testing.
    So, while sleep tracking is a good secondary feature of the Eight Sleep Pod, it should not be the main reason to get one unless you sleep alone. Also worth nothing that the app does not sync your sleeping information with Apple Health, however it does work with Alexa if that's your preferred platform.
    One more feature of the Eight Sleep is a wake-up alarm that vibrates on your side of the bed. The vibrations are meant to go from light to strong to gently wake you up, along with raising the temperature of the Pod. While this feature woke me up every single time, it also woke my partner up because the vibrations carry off to the other half of the bed even at the lightest settings.
    The Verdict
    The Eight Sleep Pod 4 delivers excellent temperature regulation, and that should be your primary objective when purchasing this Pod. While you also get sleep tracking and a wake-up alarm, these features work much better if you're the only one sleeping on the bed. The unit is also quiet in operation, and Autopilot AI works well to enhance your sleep.
    However, it is an extremely expensive piece of equipment, and additional subscription charges make it less appealing to users who are careful about their finances. And while the app is pretty good, it doesn't sync with Apple Health.
    The high costs and limited integrations pose drawbacks, but the 30-day return policy reduces risk. The Eight Sleep Pod 4 is ideal for tech and fitness enthusiasts seeking premium sleep solutions and couples with different temperature preferences.
    #eight #sleep #pod #review #better
    Eight Sleep Pod 4 Review: Better Than Your Therapist?
    I've been following Eight Sleep products for a few years and was excited to learn that the company is entering the UAE and Saudi markets. As the name implies, the company makes products that help you sleep better at night. The Eight Sleep Pod 4 is a smart mattress cover that adjusts temperature, tracks sleep metrics, and detects snoring. With summer approaching and the AC going into full blast, the Sleep Pod 4 could be a great solution for those with partners who have different temperature tolerances. Pricing and Availability The Eight Sleep Pod 4is available in regular and Ultra varieties. The regular version comes with the Pod and bed cover and costs AED 9,999 for a queen size, AED 10,799 for a king size, and AED 11,799 for an Emperor size. The Ultra version adds an elevating base that lifts the mattress into positions ideal for sleeping, reading, or relaxing. This adds about AED 8,000 to the base prices. Eight Sleep sent me the non-ultra version for this review. In addition to the price of the Sleep Pod, you have to pay AED 65 per month for AutoPilot features that adjust temperatures automatically, let you set alarms, and provide sleep and health reports. I think Sleep Eight should bundle at least one year's worth of subscription with any Pod purchase. Key Features The Pod 4 offers advanced sleep technology through a mattress cover compatible with existing beds. Its main features include: Temperature Regulation: Dual-zone climate control adjusts each side of the bed to as low as 13°C. The system uses water flow to regulate the temperature of your mattress. Sleep Tracking: Health-grade sensors monitor heart rate, heart rate variability, respiratory rate, and sleep stages. Snore Detection: The Pod 4 vibrates to identify snoring and alerts users through the app. The more expensive Pod 4 Ultra model automatically elevates the bed to reduce snoring. Autopilot AI: The algorithm personalises temperature and elevation based on bio feedback, user preferences, and data from other users. GentleRise Alarm: Vibration and thermal changes wake users gently, replacing traditional alarms. App Integration: The Eight Sleep app provides sleep insights, temperature scheduling, and control over settings. Design and Build Quality The Eight Sleep Pod 4 includes a mattress cover and a special fitted sheet covering your mattress. It is made of breathable fabric, which is comfortable to lie on, though you'll likely add a bedsheet above it. You can get this in multiple sizes. I was sent a 180x200 cms sized cover for my king-sized bed. This cover has a mesh layer below it that circulates water to make your bed cooler or warmer. This layer also has sensors that track how you sleep. Finally, there's the Bedside Hub, a desktop PC-sized box that controls the flow of water that cools or heats the Active Grid. It also connects to your Wi-Fi network. The mattress cover is connected to the Pod using a rather thick cable that I had concerns with but it tucked away easily and hasn't caused any concerns in the two months I've been using it. Installation requires water for the Hub's tank, which is supposed to be refilled every few months. The setup took me about an hour, and it is easier with two people to lift your mattress. I had to fill the water container in the bedside hub three times until it was properly dispersed to the mesh. The app guides you through all of this, starting with connecting your Pod to your Wi-Fi, which didn't go as planned. The Wi-Fi performance on the Hub is not great, and I had to move an access point into my bedroom for it to maintain a good connection. Features and Usage Once you set up the Pod, everything else is controlled and managed through the app, which is available for iPhone and Android phones. The app underwent a major overhaul during my testing and now looks more modern and streamlined.Recommended by Our Editors Using the app, you can schedule temperature changes, view sleep reports, and adjust all the settings for the Pod. You can set sepecific temperature for bedtime, later at night and at dawn. I set the schedule for my bedtime, and the Hub went into action about half an hour before that, cooling it to my desired temperature which is 2 degrees below the room temperature. You can also set the temperatures to be absolute values, such as 18 degrees. When I first started using the Eight Sleep Pod, I had set the temperatures at 19C but that proved to be very cool for my liking. After a few days of fiddling, I settled on cooling the nighttime temperature to 2 degrees lower than the bedtime and the dawn temperature to be 2 degrees higher than the room temperature. With AutoPilot, the bed automatically changes the temperature by a couple of degrees to help you get the best sleep when it detects you in REM or deep sleep states, which theoretically improves your readiness for the next day. You can also manually adjust the temperature by double or triple tapping your side of the bed to cool or warm it up. Another function of the Eight Sleep is to provide sleep tracking, which sounds great as you won't need to wear a device like the Apple Watch or Oura Ring to bed. I use an Oura Ring that I usually wear to bed, and I compared the stats it offered to the Eight Sleep. Benchmark Oura Ring Eight Sleep Pod 4 Time Slept 5h 43m 4h 19m Deep Sleep 40m 46m REM 50m 1h 15s Resting Heart Rate 73bpm 74pm While this is the data for just one night, during my two weeks of testing, I found that the Oura Ring's results were more consistent than those of the Eight Sleep, and there's a good reason why. The Eight Sleep mattress cover is split into two parts to track you and your partner. If I moved towards my partner's side or if she moved towards my side, the data would not be analysed properly. Similarly, the data would be completely thrown off if our kid decided to jump in the bed in the middle of the night, which happened quite a few times while I was testing. So, while sleep tracking is a good secondary feature of the Eight Sleep Pod, it should not be the main reason to get one unless you sleep alone. Also worth nothing that the app does not sync your sleeping information with Apple Health, however it does work with Alexa if that's your preferred platform. One more feature of the Eight Sleep is a wake-up alarm that vibrates on your side of the bed. The vibrations are meant to go from light to strong to gently wake you up, along with raising the temperature of the Pod. While this feature woke me up every single time, it also woke my partner up because the vibrations carry off to the other half of the bed even at the lightest settings. The Verdict The Eight Sleep Pod 4 delivers excellent temperature regulation, and that should be your primary objective when purchasing this Pod. While you also get sleep tracking and a wake-up alarm, these features work much better if you're the only one sleeping on the bed. The unit is also quiet in operation, and Autopilot AI works well to enhance your sleep. However, it is an extremely expensive piece of equipment, and additional subscription charges make it less appealing to users who are careful about their finances. And while the app is pretty good, it doesn't sync with Apple Health. The high costs and limited integrations pose drawbacks, but the 30-day return policy reduces risk. The Eight Sleep Pod 4 is ideal for tech and fitness enthusiasts seeking premium sleep solutions and couples with different temperature preferences. #eight #sleep #pod #review #better
    ME.PCMAG.COM
    Eight Sleep Pod 4 Review: Better Than Your Therapist?
    I've been following Eight Sleep products for a few years and was excited to learn that the company is entering the UAE and Saudi markets. As the name implies, the company makes products that help you sleep better at night. The Eight Sleep Pod 4 is a smart mattress cover that adjusts temperature, tracks sleep metrics, and detects snoring. With summer approaching and the AC going into full blast, the Sleep Pod 4 could be a great solution for those with partners who have different temperature tolerances. Pricing and Availability The Eight Sleep Pod 4 (which is now replaced by the Eight Sleep Pod 5) is available in regular and Ultra varieties. The regular version comes with the Pod and bed cover and costs AED 9,999 for a queen size (160 x 200 cms), AED 10,799 for a king size (180 x 200 cms), and AED 11,799 for an Emperor size (200 x 200). The Ultra version adds an elevating base that lifts the mattress into positions ideal for sleeping, reading, or relaxing. This adds about AED 8,000 to the base prices. Eight Sleep sent me the non-ultra version for this review. In addition to the price of the Sleep Pod, you have to pay AED 65 per month for AutoPilot features that adjust temperatures automatically, let you set alarms, and provide sleep and health reports. I think Sleep Eight should bundle at least one year's worth of subscription with any Pod purchase. Key Features The Pod 4 offers advanced sleep technology through a mattress cover compatible with existing beds. Its main features include: Temperature Regulation: Dual-zone climate control adjusts each side of the bed to as low as 13°C. The system uses water flow to regulate the temperature of your mattress. Sleep Tracking: Health-grade sensors monitor heart rate, heart rate variability (HRV), respiratory rate, and sleep stages. Snore Detection: The Pod 4 vibrates to identify snoring and alerts users through the app. The more expensive Pod 4 Ultra model automatically elevates the bed to reduce snoring. Autopilot AI: The algorithm personalises temperature and elevation based on bio feedback, user preferences, and data from other users. GentleRise Alarm: Vibration and thermal changes wake users gently, replacing traditional alarms. App Integration: The Eight Sleep app provides sleep insights, temperature scheduling, and control over settings. Design and Build Quality The Eight Sleep Pod 4 includes a mattress cover and a special fitted sheet covering your mattress. It is made of breathable fabric, which is comfortable to lie on, though you'll likely add a bedsheet above it. You can get this in multiple sizes. I was sent a 180x200 cms sized cover for my king-sized bed. This cover has a mesh layer below it that circulates water to make your bed cooler or warmer. This layer also has sensors that track how you sleep. Finally, there's the Bedside Hub, a desktop PC-sized box that controls the flow of water that cools or heats the Active Grid. It also connects to your Wi-Fi network. The mattress cover is connected to the Pod using a rather thick cable that I had concerns with but it tucked away easily and hasn't caused any concerns in the two months I've been using it. Installation requires water for the Hub's tank, which is supposed to be refilled every few months. The setup took me about an hour, and it is easier with two people to lift your mattress. I had to fill the water container in the bedside hub three times until it was properly dispersed to the mesh. The app guides you through all of this, starting with connecting your Pod to your Wi-Fi, which didn't go as planned. The Wi-Fi performance on the Hub is not great, and I had to move an access point into my bedroom for it to maintain a good connection. Features and Usage Once you set up the Pod, everything else is controlled and managed through the app, which is available for iPhone and Android phones. The app underwent a major overhaul during my testing and now looks more modern and streamlined.Recommended by Our Editors Using the app, you can schedule temperature changes, view sleep reports, and adjust all the settings for the Pod. You can set sepecific temperature for bedtime, later at night and at dawn. I set the schedule for my bedtime, and the Hub went into action about half an hour before that, cooling it to my desired temperature which is 2 degrees below the room temperature. You can also set the temperatures to be absolute values, such as 18 degrees. When I first started using the Eight Sleep Pod, I had set the temperatures at 19C but that proved to be very cool for my liking. After a few days of fiddling, I settled on cooling the nighttime temperature to 2 degrees lower than the bedtime and the dawn temperature to be 2 degrees higher than the room temperature. With AutoPilot, the bed automatically changes the temperature by a couple of degrees to help you get the best sleep when it detects you in REM or deep sleep states, which theoretically improves your readiness for the next day. You can also manually adjust the temperature by double or triple tapping your side of the bed to cool or warm it up. Another function of the Eight Sleep is to provide sleep tracking, which sounds great as you won't need to wear a device like the Apple Watch or Oura Ring to bed. I use an Oura Ring that I usually wear to bed, and I compared the stats it offered to the Eight Sleep. Benchmark Oura Ring Eight Sleep Pod 4 Time Slept 5h 43m 4h 19m Deep Sleep 40m 46m REM 50m 1h 15s Resting Heart Rate 73bpm 74pm While this is the data for just one night, during my two weeks of testing, I found that the Oura Ring's results were more consistent than those of the Eight Sleep, and there's a good reason why. The Eight Sleep mattress cover is split into two parts to track you and your partner. If I moved towards my partner's side or if she moved towards my side, the data would not be analysed properly. Similarly, the data would be completely thrown off if our kid decided to jump in the bed in the middle of the night, which happened quite a few times while I was testing. So, while sleep tracking is a good secondary feature of the Eight Sleep Pod, it should not be the main reason to get one unless you sleep alone. Also worth nothing that the app does not sync your sleeping information with Apple Health, however it does work with Alexa if that's your preferred platform. One more feature of the Eight Sleep is a wake-up alarm that vibrates on your side of the bed. The vibrations are meant to go from light to strong to gently wake you up, along with raising the temperature of the Pod. While this feature woke me up every single time, it also woke my partner up because the vibrations carry off to the other half of the bed even at the lightest settings. The Verdict The Eight Sleep Pod 4 delivers excellent temperature regulation, and that should be your primary objective when purchasing this Pod. While you also get sleep tracking and a wake-up alarm, these features work much better if you're the only one sleeping on the bed. The unit is also quiet in operation, and Autopilot AI works well to enhance your sleep. However, it is an extremely expensive piece of equipment, and additional subscription charges make it less appealing to users who are careful about their finances. And while the app is pretty good, it doesn't sync with Apple Health. The high costs and limited integrations pose drawbacks, but the 30-day return policy reduces risk. The Eight Sleep Pod 4 is ideal for tech and fitness enthusiasts seeking premium sleep solutions and couples with different temperature preferences.
    0 Comentários 0 Compartilhamentos 0 Anterior
  • Researchers 3D bioprint engineered tissues using high cell-density bioinks for multiphase constructs

    A team led by researchers at the University of Illinois Chicago and UC Davis has developed a method to 3D bioprint tissue-specific, high cell-density bioinks capable of forming complex multiphase constructs. Published in Materials Today, the study introduces a platform that combines individual or aggregate-based stem cell bioinks with localized growth factor delivery, offering precise control over spatial differentiation and tissue development.
    Using a shear-thinning, photocrosslinkable alginate microgel supporting bath, the research team successfully printed structures with high shape fidelity and tunable degradation. These constructs enable self-assembly through cellular condensation and localized differentiation into distinct tissues such as cartilage and bone. After four weeks of culture, the bioprinted structures maintained their original geometry and exhibited clear phase separation between chondrogenic and osteogenic regions.
    A new approach to bioink precision
    Conventional bioprinting approaches often rely on biomaterial-laden inks that can interfere with direct cell–cell interactions and degrade unpredictably. To overcome these limitations, the researchers developed bioinks containing either individual stem cells or multicellular aggregates, combined with gelatin microparticlesloaded with growth factors such as TGF-β1 and BMP-2.These formulations demonstrated favorable rheological properties, shear-thinning, self-healing, and low yield stress, making them well-suited for extrusion-based bioprinting. Critically, the growth factor-loaded GMs allowed for spatially controlled, sustained biochemical signaling without requiring external supplementation.Following 3D printing and stabilization of the supporting bath, stem cells underwent lineage-specific differentiation, resulting in stable osteochondral constructs. Histological and biochemical analyses confirmed targeted extracellular matrix deposition and distinct tissue boundaries at the cartilage–bone interface.3D printing of the tissue specific high cell-density bioinks within the OMA microgel supporting bath, which fluidizes via its shear-thinning property. When the printing needle fluidizes the mechanical stable OMA microgels, tissue specific high cell-density bioinks can fill the shear-thinning region. After the needle passes, the OMA microgel bath can be stabilized by its self-healing propertyto firmly hold the printed bioinks. Image via Jeon et al., Materials Today.
    From biomaterials to biofunction
    While 3D bioprinting has long promised the recreation of complex biological architectures, printing functional, multicellular, multi-tissue constructs remains a key challenge. Cell-only bioinks often require preformed strands or aggregates, limiting resolution and design flexibility. The approach developed by Jeon et al. addresses this gap, enabling high-resolution deposition of cell-dense bioinks that self-organize into biologically relevant structures.
    Characterization of resolution and shape fidelity and chondrogenic differentiation of 3D bioprinted constructs.Photomicrographs of the 3D printed individual cell-based tissue specific bioink filamentsinto OMA microgel supporting baths with a 22G printing needle andquantification of their mean diameters, demonstrating the capability of high-resolution printing with narrow filament diameter distribution. Scale bars indicate 500 μm. N.S.: Not significant.Digital images andphotographs of the 3D printed structures, demonstrating high shape fidelity. The scale bars indicate 5 mm.Photomicrographs of Saf-O/Fast Green stained construct sections cultured in BPMand CPM. The scale bars indicate 500 μm.Quantification of GAG/DNA in the chondrogenically differentiated 3D printed constructs. These demonstrate hMSC differentiation and deposition of chondrogenic extracellular matrixin the individual cell-based tissue specific bioink printed constructs. N.S.: Not significant. Image via Jeon et al., Materials Today.
    Recent innovations have similarly advanced bioink design and tissue engineering. Researchers at Seoul National University of Science and Technology, developed a  SCOBY-derived bioink to 3D print cellulose scaffolds for direct tissue repair, while another team created a personalized heart-on-a-chip using photopolymerizable, patient-specific bioinks. Bio INX and Readily3D launched a ready-to-use bioink for volumetric bioprinting, and Texas A&M engineered a specialized vascular-specific bioink tailored for blood vessel formation. Elsewhere, studies have demonstrated functional brain tissue constructs with active neural networks, and Frontier Bio received a 2024 3DPI Award for developing lung-like tissue in vitro.
    Jeon et al.’s work builds on these efforts by integrating localized growth factor delivery into high cell-density bioinks, enabling the fabrication of multiphase tissues with fine spatial control and biological fidelity.By controlling the spatial presentation of bioactive cues within densely cellular environments, the platform holds promise for regenerative medicine, disease modeling, and drug screening. Future research will aim to enhance tissue maturation and incorporate vascularization to improve functionality and translational potential.
    What 3D printing trends should you watch out for in 2025?
    How is the future of 3D printing shaping up?
    Subscribe to the 3D Printing Industry newsletter to keep up with the latest 3D printing news.You can also follow us onLinkedIn and subscribe to the 3D Printing Industry Youtube channel to access more exclusive content.
    #researchers #bioprint #engineered #tissues #using
    Researchers 3D bioprint engineered tissues using high cell-density bioinks for multiphase constructs
    A team led by researchers at the University of Illinois Chicago and UC Davis has developed a method to 3D bioprint tissue-specific, high cell-density bioinks capable of forming complex multiphase constructs. Published in Materials Today, the study introduces a platform that combines individual or aggregate-based stem cell bioinks with localized growth factor delivery, offering precise control over spatial differentiation and tissue development. Using a shear-thinning, photocrosslinkable alginate microgel supporting bath, the research team successfully printed structures with high shape fidelity and tunable degradation. These constructs enable self-assembly through cellular condensation and localized differentiation into distinct tissues such as cartilage and bone. After four weeks of culture, the bioprinted structures maintained their original geometry and exhibited clear phase separation between chondrogenic and osteogenic regions. A new approach to bioink precision Conventional bioprinting approaches often rely on biomaterial-laden inks that can interfere with direct cell–cell interactions and degrade unpredictably. To overcome these limitations, the researchers developed bioinks containing either individual stem cells or multicellular aggregates, combined with gelatin microparticlesloaded with growth factors such as TGF-β1 and BMP-2.These formulations demonstrated favorable rheological properties, shear-thinning, self-healing, and low yield stress, making them well-suited for extrusion-based bioprinting. Critically, the growth factor-loaded GMs allowed for spatially controlled, sustained biochemical signaling without requiring external supplementation.Following 3D printing and stabilization of the supporting bath, stem cells underwent lineage-specific differentiation, resulting in stable osteochondral constructs. Histological and biochemical analyses confirmed targeted extracellular matrix deposition and distinct tissue boundaries at the cartilage–bone interface.3D printing of the tissue specific high cell-density bioinks within the OMA microgel supporting bath, which fluidizes via its shear-thinning property. When the printing needle fluidizes the mechanical stable OMA microgels, tissue specific high cell-density bioinks can fill the shear-thinning region. After the needle passes, the OMA microgel bath can be stabilized by its self-healing propertyto firmly hold the printed bioinks. Image via Jeon et al., Materials Today. From biomaterials to biofunction While 3D bioprinting has long promised the recreation of complex biological architectures, printing functional, multicellular, multi-tissue constructs remains a key challenge. Cell-only bioinks often require preformed strands or aggregates, limiting resolution and design flexibility. The approach developed by Jeon et al. addresses this gap, enabling high-resolution deposition of cell-dense bioinks that self-organize into biologically relevant structures. Characterization of resolution and shape fidelity and chondrogenic differentiation of 3D bioprinted constructs.Photomicrographs of the 3D printed individual cell-based tissue specific bioink filamentsinto OMA microgel supporting baths with a 22G printing needle andquantification of their mean diameters, demonstrating the capability of high-resolution printing with narrow filament diameter distribution. Scale bars indicate 500 μm. N.S.: Not significant.Digital images andphotographs of the 3D printed structures, demonstrating high shape fidelity. The scale bars indicate 5 mm.Photomicrographs of Saf-O/Fast Green stained construct sections cultured in BPMand CPM. The scale bars indicate 500 μm.Quantification of GAG/DNA in the chondrogenically differentiated 3D printed constructs. These demonstrate hMSC differentiation and deposition of chondrogenic extracellular matrixin the individual cell-based tissue specific bioink printed constructs. N.S.: Not significant. Image via Jeon et al., Materials Today. Recent innovations have similarly advanced bioink design and tissue engineering. Researchers at Seoul National University of Science and Technology, developed a  SCOBY-derived bioink to 3D print cellulose scaffolds for direct tissue repair, while another team created a personalized heart-on-a-chip using photopolymerizable, patient-specific bioinks. Bio INX and Readily3D launched a ready-to-use bioink for volumetric bioprinting, and Texas A&M engineered a specialized vascular-specific bioink tailored for blood vessel formation. Elsewhere, studies have demonstrated functional brain tissue constructs with active neural networks, and Frontier Bio received a 2024 3DPI Award for developing lung-like tissue in vitro. Jeon et al.’s work builds on these efforts by integrating localized growth factor delivery into high cell-density bioinks, enabling the fabrication of multiphase tissues with fine spatial control and biological fidelity.By controlling the spatial presentation of bioactive cues within densely cellular environments, the platform holds promise for regenerative medicine, disease modeling, and drug screening. Future research will aim to enhance tissue maturation and incorporate vascularization to improve functionality and translational potential. What 3D printing trends should you watch out for in 2025? How is the future of 3D printing shaping up? Subscribe to the 3D Printing Industry newsletter to keep up with the latest 3D printing news.You can also follow us onLinkedIn and subscribe to the 3D Printing Industry Youtube channel to access more exclusive content. #researchers #bioprint #engineered #tissues #using
    3DPRINTINGINDUSTRY.COM
    Researchers 3D bioprint engineered tissues using high cell-density bioinks for multiphase constructs
    A team led by researchers at the University of Illinois Chicago and UC Davis has developed a method to 3D bioprint tissue-specific, high cell-density bioinks capable of forming complex multiphase constructs. Published in Materials Today, the study introduces a platform that combines individual or aggregate-based stem cell bioinks with localized growth factor delivery, offering precise control over spatial differentiation and tissue development. Using a shear-thinning, photocrosslinkable alginate microgel supporting bath, the research team successfully printed structures with high shape fidelity and tunable degradation. These constructs enable self-assembly through cellular condensation and localized differentiation into distinct tissues such as cartilage and bone. After four weeks of culture, the bioprinted structures maintained their original geometry and exhibited clear phase separation between chondrogenic and osteogenic regions. A new approach to bioink precision Conventional bioprinting approaches often rely on biomaterial-laden inks that can interfere with direct cell–cell interactions and degrade unpredictably. To overcome these limitations, the researchers developed bioinks containing either individual stem cells or multicellular aggregates, combined with gelatin microparticles (GMs) loaded with growth factors such as TGF-β1 and BMP-2.These formulations demonstrated favorable rheological properties, shear-thinning, self-healing, and low yield stress, making them well-suited for extrusion-based bioprinting. Critically, the growth factor-loaded GMs allowed for spatially controlled, sustained biochemical signaling without requiring external supplementation.Following 3D printing and stabilization of the supporting bath, stem cells underwent lineage-specific differentiation, resulting in stable osteochondral constructs. Histological and biochemical analyses confirmed targeted extracellular matrix deposition and distinct tissue boundaries at the cartilage–bone interface.3D printing of the tissue specific high cell-density bioinks within the OMA microgel supporting bath, which fluidizes via its shear-thinning property. When the printing needle fluidizes the mechanical stable OMA microgels (i, disordered region), tissue specific high cell-density bioinks can fill the shear-thinning region (ii). After the needle passes, the OMA microgel bath can be stabilized by its self-healing property (iii, self-healing region) to firmly hold the printed bioinks. Image via Jeon et al., Materials Today. From biomaterials to biofunction While 3D bioprinting has long promised the recreation of complex biological architectures, printing functional, multicellular, multi-tissue constructs remains a key challenge. Cell-only bioinks often require preformed strands or aggregates, limiting resolution and design flexibility. The approach developed by Jeon et al. addresses this gap, enabling high-resolution deposition of cell-dense bioinks that self-organize into biologically relevant structures. Characterization of resolution and shape fidelity and chondrogenic differentiation of 3D bioprinted constructs. (A) Photomicrographs of the 3D printed individual cell-based tissue specific bioink filaments [i and ii; TGF-β1-loaded GM + hMSCs. iii and iv; bone morphogenic protein-2 (BMP-2)-loaded GM + hASCs] into OMA microgel supporting baths with a 22G printing needle and (B) quantification of their mean diameters, demonstrating the capability of high-resolution printing with narrow filament diameter distribution. Scale bars indicate 500 μm. N.S.: Not significant. (C) Digital images and (D) photographs of the 3D printed structures, demonstrating high shape fidelity. The scale bars indicate 5 mm. (E) Photomicrographs of Saf-O/Fast Green stained construct sections cultured in BPM (i and ii) and CPM (iii and iv). The scale bars indicate 500 μm. (F) Quantification of GAG/DNA in the chondrogenically differentiated 3D printed constructs. These demonstrate hMSC differentiation and deposition of chondrogenic extracellular matrix (ECM) in the individual cell-based tissue specific bioink printed constructs. N.S.: Not significant. Image via Jeon et al., Materials Today. Recent innovations have similarly advanced bioink design and tissue engineering. Researchers at Seoul National University of Science and Technology, developed a  SCOBY-derived bioink to 3D print cellulose scaffolds for direct tissue repair, while another team created a personalized heart-on-a-chip using photopolymerizable, patient-specific bioinks. Bio INX and Readily3D launched a ready-to-use bioink for volumetric bioprinting, and Texas A&M engineered a specialized vascular-specific bioink tailored for blood vessel formation. Elsewhere, studies have demonstrated functional brain tissue constructs with active neural networks, and Frontier Bio received a 2024 3DPI Award for developing lung-like tissue in vitro. Jeon et al.’s work builds on these efforts by integrating localized growth factor delivery into high cell-density bioinks, enabling the fabrication of multiphase tissues with fine spatial control and biological fidelity.By controlling the spatial presentation of bioactive cues within densely cellular environments, the platform holds promise for regenerative medicine, disease modeling, and drug screening. Future research will aim to enhance tissue maturation and incorporate vascularization to improve functionality and translational potential. What 3D printing trends should you watch out for in 2025? How is the future of 3D printing shaping up? Subscribe to the 3D Printing Industry newsletter to keep up with the latest 3D printing news.You can also follow us onLinkedIn and subscribe to the 3D Printing Industry Youtube channel to access more exclusive content.
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