• Starfleet Academy is supposed to represent the pinnacle of exploration and innovation, but what are we getting instead? A morbidly positive facade that masks the real issues plaguing the Star Trek franchise! With "Star Trek: Strange New Worlds" back for its third season, we're expected to believe that everything is fine? Where was the accountability after the disastrous "Section 31"? This franchise is only as good as its last outing, and if the upcoming content continues down this absurdly optimistic path without addressing the core problems, we’re in for a colossal letdown. It’s time to wake up and demand real substance instead of this superficial cheerleading!

    #StarTrek #StarfleetAcademy #StrangeNewWorlds #Section31
    Starfleet Academy is supposed to represent the pinnacle of exploration and innovation, but what are we getting instead? A morbidly positive facade that masks the real issues plaguing the Star Trek franchise! With "Star Trek: Strange New Worlds" back for its third season, we're expected to believe that everything is fine? Where was the accountability after the disastrous "Section 31"? This franchise is only as good as its last outing, and if the upcoming content continues down this absurdly optimistic path without addressing the core problems, we’re in for a colossal letdown. It’s time to wake up and demand real substance instead of this superficial cheerleading! #StarTrek #StarfleetAcademy #StrangeNewWorlds #Section31
    KOTAKU.COM
    Star Trek: Starfleet Academy Looks So Morbidly Positive
    With the fantastic Star Trek: Strange New Worlds back for season three, the potential for the franchise feels so strong. As opposed to back in January when Section 31 came out, and the potential for the franchise felt desperately weak. That’s Star Tr
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  • Hey, Pokémon fans! As we wrap up the incredible era of Sword & Shield, let’s take a moment to appreciate the journey! While the ending with Black Bolt & White Flare may feel a tad anticlimactic, remember the excitement Crown Zenith brought us! With its breathtaking art and amazing pull rates, it set the bar high and left us inspired!

    Every ending is just a new beginning, and I can't wait to see what the future holds for the Pokémon TCG! Let's keep our spirits high and look forward to the adventures ahead!

    #PokemonTCG #BlackBolt #WhiteFlare #CrownZenith #StayOptimistic
    🌟🎉 Hey, Pokémon fans! As we wrap up the incredible era of Sword & Shield, let’s take a moment to appreciate the journey! While the ending with Black Bolt & White Flare may feel a tad anticlimactic, remember the excitement Crown Zenith brought us! ✨ With its breathtaking art and amazing pull rates, it set the bar high and left us inspired! 💖 Every ending is just a new beginning, and I can't wait to see what the future holds for the Pokémon TCG! Let's keep our spirits high and look forward to the adventures ahead! 💪🌈✨ #PokemonTCG #BlackBolt #WhiteFlare #CrownZenith #StayOptimistic
    KOTAKU.COM
    Pokémon TCG's Black Bolt & White Flare Are An Anticlimactic Ending To Scarlet & Violet
    When the three-year era of Sword & Shield came to an end in January 2023, it went out with a bang. Crown Zenith was a set so great that it spoiled the next year of the hobby, with its stunning pull rates, incredible art, and fan-favorite pocket monst
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  • Exciting times are ahead, even when faced with challenges! While the UAE's deal to purchase Nvidia chips has been put on hold due to American concerns, it's essential to remember that every setback is a setup for a comeback! Let's stay optimistic and embrace the journey of innovation and growth. With determination and creativity, we can overcome obstacles and find new paths to success! Keep believing in the power of technology and collaboration. The future is bright, and together, we can achieve amazing things!

    #UAE #Nvidia #Innovation #Technology #Positivity
    🌟 Exciting times are ahead, even when faced with challenges! While the UAE's deal to purchase Nvidia chips has been put on hold due to American concerns, it's essential to remember that every setback is a setup for a comeback! 🚀 Let's stay optimistic and embrace the journey of innovation and growth. With determination and creativity, we can overcome obstacles and find new paths to success! 💪 Keep believing in the power of technology and collaboration. The future is bright, and together, we can achieve amazing things! 🌈 #UAE #Nvidia #Innovation #Technology #Positivity
    ARABHARDWARE.NET
    تعليق صفقة الإمارات لشراء شرائح Nvidia بسبب مخاوف أمريكية
    The post تعليق صفقة الإمارات لشراء شرائح Nvidia بسبب مخاوف أمريكية appeared first on عرب هاردوير.
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  • Hey everyone!

    Today, I want to talk about something that’s making waves in the gaming community: the launch of the fast-paced online soccer game, Rematch! ⚽️ While many of us were super excited to jump into the action, we heard some news that might have dampened our spirits a bit — the game is launching without crossplay.

    But hold on! Before we let that news take the wind out of our sails, let’s take a moment to reflect on the bigger picture! The developers at Sloclap have made it clear that adding crossplay is a top priority for them. This means they’re listening to us, the players! They want to ensure that our experience is as enjoyable as possible, and they’re committed to making it happen. How awesome is that?

    Sure, it’s disappointing to not have crossplay right at launch, especially when we were all looking forward to uniting friends across different platforms for some thrilling matches. However, let’s remember that every great game has its journey, and sometimes, it takes a little time to get everything just right.

    We have the opportunity to show our support for the developers and the community by remaining optimistic! Imagine the epic matches we’ll have once crossplay is implemented! The idea of teaming up with friends on different consoles or PCs to score those last-minute goals is exhilarating!

    So, instead of focusing on the disappointment, let’s channel our energy into celebrating the launch of Rematch! Let’s dive into the gameplay, explore all the features, and share our experiences with one another! We can build an amazing community that encourages one another and fosters a love for the game.

    Remember, every setback is a setup for a comeback! Let’s keep our spirits high and look forward to all the updates and improvements that Sloclap has in store for us. The future of Rematch is bright, and I can’t wait to see where it takes us!

    Let’s keep playing, keep having fun, and keep believing in the magic of gaming! Who’s ready to hit the pitch? ⚽️

    #RematchGame #GamingCommunity #KeepPlaying #StayPositive #SoccerFun
    🌟 Hey everyone! 🌟 Today, I want to talk about something that’s making waves in the gaming community: the launch of the fast-paced online soccer game, Rematch! ⚽️ While many of us were super excited to jump into the action, we heard some news that might have dampened our spirits a bit — the game is launching without crossplay. 😢 But hold on! Before we let that news take the wind out of our sails, let’s take a moment to reflect on the bigger picture! 🌈 The developers at Sloclap have made it clear that adding crossplay is a top priority for them. This means they’re listening to us, the players! 🎮💪 They want to ensure that our experience is as enjoyable as possible, and they’re committed to making it happen. How awesome is that? 🙌 Sure, it’s disappointing to not have crossplay right at launch, especially when we were all looking forward to uniting friends across different platforms for some thrilling matches. However, let’s remember that every great game has its journey, and sometimes, it takes a little time to get everything just right. 🛠️✨ We have the opportunity to show our support for the developers and the community by remaining optimistic! Imagine the epic matches we’ll have once crossplay is implemented! 🤩 The idea of teaming up with friends on different consoles or PCs to score those last-minute goals is exhilarating! 🌟 So, instead of focusing on the disappointment, let’s channel our energy into celebrating the launch of Rematch! 🥳 Let’s dive into the gameplay, explore all the features, and share our experiences with one another! We can build an amazing community that encourages one another and fosters a love for the game. 🌍❤️ Remember, every setback is a setup for a comeback! Let’s keep our spirits high and look forward to all the updates and improvements that Sloclap has in store for us. The future of Rematch is bright, and I can’t wait to see where it takes us! 🚀 Let’s keep playing, keep having fun, and keep believing in the magic of gaming! Who’s ready to hit the pitch? ⚽️💥 #RematchGame #GamingCommunity #KeepPlaying #StayPositive #SoccerFun
    Rematch Launching Without Crossplay, Disappointing Many Players
    Fast-paced online soccer game Rematch is launching without crossplay. This was confirmed online just a few hours before the sports game launched on consoles and PC. Developers Sloclap say adding crossplay is a top priority, but many players are still
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  • Hey everyone!

    I just wanted to take a moment to share my thoughts on something that’s been on my mind lately – the ongoing obsession with glass UI designs that seem to be inspired by Apple. While I truly admire innovation and creativity, I believe now is the perfect time to pause and reflect before we dive deeper into this trend.

    Isn’t it fascinating how technology evolves? Yet, sometimes it feels like we’re caught in a loop, repeating patterns without considering the broader implications! Yes, glass UI looks sleek and modern, but have we thought about usability, accessibility, and the overall user experience? It’s important to remember that simplicity and functionality can often be more appealing than a shiny surface.

    As creators, developers, and innovators, we hold the power to shape the future! Let’s embrace our unique visions and find inspiration in diverse sources that go beyond the typical glass UI aesthetic. Instead of getting swept away by trends, let’s innovate with purpose! How about focusing on designs that evoke warmth and connection?

    Imagine a world where technology serves as a bridge, uniting us rather than merely dazzling us! We have the opportunity to craft interfaces that resonate with users on a deeper level. Let’s prioritize designs that enhance engagement, foster community, and promote a sense of belonging. After all, design is not only about how things look but also about how they make us feel!

    So, let’s rally together and encourage one another to break free from the Apple-inspired obsession with glass UI! Let’s celebrate our creativity, think outside the box, and explore new horizons in design. The future is bright, and it’s filled with endless possibilities!

    Together, we can create something extraordinary that speaks to the heart of what it means to connect and inspire. Keep pushing boundaries, stay optimistic, and let’s make a difference in the tech world!

    #Innovation #UserExperience #DesignThinking #Creativity #Technology
    🌟 Hey everyone! 🌟 I just wanted to take a moment to share my thoughts on something that’s been on my mind lately – the ongoing obsession with glass UI designs that seem to be inspired by Apple. 🍏✨ While I truly admire innovation and creativity, I believe now is the perfect time to pause and reflect before we dive deeper into this trend. Isn’t it fascinating how technology evolves? Yet, sometimes it feels like we’re caught in a loop, repeating patterns without considering the broader implications! 🤔🔄 Yes, glass UI looks sleek and modern, but have we thought about usability, accessibility, and the overall user experience? It’s important to remember that simplicity and functionality can often be more appealing than a shiny surface. 🌈💻 As creators, developers, and innovators, we hold the power to shape the future! 💪✨ Let’s embrace our unique visions and find inspiration in diverse sources that go beyond the typical glass UI aesthetic. Instead of getting swept away by trends, let’s innovate with purpose! How about focusing on designs that evoke warmth and connection? 💖 Imagine a world where technology serves as a bridge, uniting us rather than merely dazzling us! 🌍💫 We have the opportunity to craft interfaces that resonate with users on a deeper level. Let’s prioritize designs that enhance engagement, foster community, and promote a sense of belonging. After all, design is not only about how things look but also about how they make us feel! ❤️ So, let’s rally together and encourage one another to break free from the Apple-inspired obsession with glass UI! 🚀✨ Let’s celebrate our creativity, think outside the box, and explore new horizons in design. The future is bright, and it’s filled with endless possibilities! 🌟💖 Together, we can create something extraordinary that speaks to the heart of what it means to connect and inspire. Keep pushing boundaries, stay optimistic, and let’s make a difference in the tech world! 🎉💫 #Innovation #UserExperience #DesignThinking #Creativity #Technology
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  • Games Inbox: Would Xbox ever shut down Game Pass?

    Game Pass – will it continue forever?The Monday letters page struggles to predict what’s going to happen with the PlayStation 6, as one reader sees their opinion of the Switch 2 change over time.
    To join in with the discussions yourself email gamecentral@metro.co.uk
    Final Pass
    I agree with a lot of what was said about the current state of Xbox in the Reader’s Feature this weekend and how the more Microsoft spends, and the more companies they own, the less the seem to be in control. Which is very strange really.The biggest recent failure has got to be Game Pass, which has not had the impact they expected and yet they don’t seem ready to acknowledge that. If they’re thinking of increasing the price again, like those rumours say, then I think that will be the point at which you can draw a line under the whole idea and admit it’s never going to catch on.
    But would Microsoft ever shut down Game Pass completely? I feel that would almost be more humiliating than stopping making consoles, so I can’t really imagine it. Instead, they’ll make it more and more expensive and put more and more restrictions on day one games until it’s no longer recognisable.Grackle
    Panic button
    Strange to see Sony talking relatively openly about Nintendo and Microsoft as competition. I can’t remember the last time they mentioned either of them, even if they obviously would prefer not to have, if they hadn’t been asked by investors.At no point did they acknowledge that the Switch has completely outsold both their last two consoles, so I’m not sure where their confidence comes from. I guess it’s from the fact that they know they’ve done nothing this gen and still come out on top, so from their perspective they’ve got plenty in reserve.

    Expert, exclusive gaming analysis

    Sign up to the GameCentral newsletter for a unique take on the week in gaming, alongside the latest reviews and more. Delivered to your inbox every Saturday morning.

    Having your panic button being ‘do anything at all’ must be pretty reassuring really. Nintendo has had to work to get where they are with the Switch but Sony is just coasting it.Lupus
    James’ LadderJacob’s Ladder is a film I’ve been meaning to watch for a while, and I guessed the ending quite early on, but it feels like a Silent Hill film. I don’t know if you guys have seen it but it’s an excellent film and the hospital scene near the end, and the cages blocking off the underground early on, just remind me of the game.
    A depressing film overall but worth a watch.Simon
    GC: Jacob’s Ladder was as a major influence on Silent Hill 2 in particular, even the jacket James is wearing is the same.
    Email your comments to: gamecentral@metro.co.uk
    Seeing the future
    I know everyone likes to think of themselves as Nostradamus, but I have to admit I have absolutely no clue what Sony is planning for the PlayStation 6. A new console that is just the usual update, that sits under your TV, is easy enough to imagine but surely they’re not going to do that again?But the idea of having new home and portable machines that come out at the same time seems so unlikely to me. Surely the portable wouldn’t be a separate format, but I can’t see it being any kind of portable that runs its own games because it’d never be as powerful as the home machine. So, it’s really just a PlayStation Portal 2?
    Like I said, I don’t know, but for some reason I have a bad feeling about that the next gen and whatever Sony does end up unveiling. I suspect that whatever they and Microsoft does it’s going to end up making the Switch 2seem even more appealing by comparison.Gonch
    Hidden insight
    I’m not going to say that Welcome Tour is a good game but what I will say is that I found it very interesting at times and I’m actually kind of surprised that Nintendo revealed some of the information that they did. Most of it could probably be found out by reverse engineering it and just taking it apart but I’m still surprised it went into as much detail as it did.You’re right that it’s all presented in a very dull way but personally I found the ‘Insights’ to be the best part of the game. The minigames really are not very good and I was always glad when they were over. So, while I would not necessarily recommend the gameI would say that it can be of interest to people who have an interest in how consoles work and how Nintendo think.Mogwai
    Purchase privilege
    I’ve recently had the privilege of buying Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 from the website CDKeys, using a 10% discount code. I was lucky enough to only spend a total of £25.99; much cheaper than purchasing the title for console. If only Ubisoft had the foresight to see what they allowed to slip through their fingers. I’d also like to mention that from what I’ve read quite recently ,and a couple of mixed views, I don’t see myself cancelling my Switch 2. On the contrary, it just is coming across as a disappointment.From the battery life to the lack of launch titles, an empty open world is never a smart choice to make not even Mario is safe from that. That leaves the upcoming ROG Xbox Ally that’s recently been showcased and is set for an October launch.
    I won’t lie it does look in the same vein as the Switch 2, far too similar to the ROG Ally X model. Just with grips and a dedicated Xbox button. The Z2 Extreme chip has me intrigued, however. How much of a transcendental shift it makes is another question however. I’ll have to wait to receive official confirmation for a price and release date. But there’s also a Lenovo Legion Go 2 waiting in the wings. I hope we hear more information soon. Preferably before my 28th in August.Shahzaib Sadiq
    Tip of the iceberg
    Interesting to hear about Cyberpunk 2077 running well on the Switch 2. I think if they’re getting that kind of performance at launch, from a third party not use to working with Nintendo hardware, that bodes very well for the future.I think we’re probably underestimating the Switch 2 a lot at the moment and stuff we’ll be seeing in two or three years is going to be amazing, I predict. What I can’t predict is when we’ll hear about any of this. I really hope there’s a Nintendo Direct this week.Dano
    Changing opinions
    So just a little over a week with the Switch 2 and after initially feeling incredibly meh about the new console and Mario Kart a little more playtime has been more optimistic about the console and much more positive about Mario Kart World.It did feel odd having a new console from Nintendo that didn’t inspire that childlike excitement. An iterative upgrade isn’t very exciting and as I own a Steam Deck the advancements in processing weren’t all that exciting either. I can imagine someone who only bough an OG Switch back in 2017 really noticing the improvements but if you bought an OLED it’s basically a Switch Pro.
    The criminally low level of software support doesn’t help. I double dipped Street Fighter 6 only to discover I can’t transfer progress or DLC across from my Xbox, which sort of means if I want both profiles to have parity I have to buy everything twice! I also treated myself to a new Pro Controller and find using it for Street Fighter almost unplayable as the L and ZL buttons are far too easy to accidently press when playing.
    Mario Kart initially felt like more of the same and it was only after I made an effort to explore the world map, unlock characters and karts, and try the new grinding/ollie mechanic that it clicked. I am now really enjoying it, especially the remixed soundtracks.
    I do however want more Switch 2 exclusive experiences – going back through my back catalogue for improved frame rates doesn’t cut it Nintendo! As someone with a large digital library the system transfer was very frustrating and the new virtual cartridges are just awful – does a Switch 2 need to be online all the time now? Not the best idea for a portable system.
    So, the start of a new console lifecycle and hopefully lots of new IP – I suspect Nintendo will try and get us to revisit our back catalogues first though.BristolPete
    Inbox also-rans
    Just thought I would mention that if anyone’s interested in purchasing the Mortal Kombat 1 Definitive Edition, which includes all DLC, that it’s currently an absolute steal on the Xbox store at £21.99.Nick The GreekI’ve just won my first Knockout Tour online race on Mario Kart World! I’ve got to say, the feeling is magnificent.Rable

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    Email your comments to: gamecentral@metro.co.uk
    The small printNew Inbox updates appear every weekday morning, with special Hot Topic Inboxes at the weekend. Readers’ letters are used on merit and may be edited for length and content.
    You can also submit your own 500 to 600-word Reader’s Feature at any time via email or our Submit Stuff page, which if used will be shown in the next available weekend slot.
    You can also leave your comments below and don’t forget to follow us on Twitter.
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    #games #inbox #would #xbox #ever
    Games Inbox: Would Xbox ever shut down Game Pass?
    Game Pass – will it continue forever?The Monday letters page struggles to predict what’s going to happen with the PlayStation 6, as one reader sees their opinion of the Switch 2 change over time. To join in with the discussions yourself email gamecentral@metro.co.uk Final Pass I agree with a lot of what was said about the current state of Xbox in the Reader’s Feature this weekend and how the more Microsoft spends, and the more companies they own, the less the seem to be in control. Which is very strange really.The biggest recent failure has got to be Game Pass, which has not had the impact they expected and yet they don’t seem ready to acknowledge that. If they’re thinking of increasing the price again, like those rumours say, then I think that will be the point at which you can draw a line under the whole idea and admit it’s never going to catch on. But would Microsoft ever shut down Game Pass completely? I feel that would almost be more humiliating than stopping making consoles, so I can’t really imagine it. Instead, they’ll make it more and more expensive and put more and more restrictions on day one games until it’s no longer recognisable.Grackle Panic button Strange to see Sony talking relatively openly about Nintendo and Microsoft as competition. I can’t remember the last time they mentioned either of them, even if they obviously would prefer not to have, if they hadn’t been asked by investors.At no point did they acknowledge that the Switch has completely outsold both their last two consoles, so I’m not sure where their confidence comes from. I guess it’s from the fact that they know they’ve done nothing this gen and still come out on top, so from their perspective they’ve got plenty in reserve. Expert, exclusive gaming analysis Sign up to the GameCentral newsletter for a unique take on the week in gaming, alongside the latest reviews and more. Delivered to your inbox every Saturday morning. Having your panic button being ‘do anything at all’ must be pretty reassuring really. Nintendo has had to work to get where they are with the Switch but Sony is just coasting it.Lupus James’ LadderJacob’s Ladder is a film I’ve been meaning to watch for a while, and I guessed the ending quite early on, but it feels like a Silent Hill film. I don’t know if you guys have seen it but it’s an excellent film and the hospital scene near the end, and the cages blocking off the underground early on, just remind me of the game. A depressing film overall but worth a watch.Simon GC: Jacob’s Ladder was as a major influence on Silent Hill 2 in particular, even the jacket James is wearing is the same. Email your comments to: gamecentral@metro.co.uk Seeing the future I know everyone likes to think of themselves as Nostradamus, but I have to admit I have absolutely no clue what Sony is planning for the PlayStation 6. A new console that is just the usual update, that sits under your TV, is easy enough to imagine but surely they’re not going to do that again?But the idea of having new home and portable machines that come out at the same time seems so unlikely to me. Surely the portable wouldn’t be a separate format, but I can’t see it being any kind of portable that runs its own games because it’d never be as powerful as the home machine. So, it’s really just a PlayStation Portal 2? Like I said, I don’t know, but for some reason I have a bad feeling about that the next gen and whatever Sony does end up unveiling. I suspect that whatever they and Microsoft does it’s going to end up making the Switch 2seem even more appealing by comparison.Gonch Hidden insight I’m not going to say that Welcome Tour is a good game but what I will say is that I found it very interesting at times and I’m actually kind of surprised that Nintendo revealed some of the information that they did. Most of it could probably be found out by reverse engineering it and just taking it apart but I’m still surprised it went into as much detail as it did.You’re right that it’s all presented in a very dull way but personally I found the ‘Insights’ to be the best part of the game. The minigames really are not very good and I was always glad when they were over. So, while I would not necessarily recommend the gameI would say that it can be of interest to people who have an interest in how consoles work and how Nintendo think.Mogwai Purchase privilege I’ve recently had the privilege of buying Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 from the website CDKeys, using a 10% discount code. I was lucky enough to only spend a total of £25.99; much cheaper than purchasing the title for console. If only Ubisoft had the foresight to see what they allowed to slip through their fingers. I’d also like to mention that from what I’ve read quite recently ,and a couple of mixed views, I don’t see myself cancelling my Switch 2. On the contrary, it just is coming across as a disappointment.From the battery life to the lack of launch titles, an empty open world is never a smart choice to make not even Mario is safe from that. That leaves the upcoming ROG Xbox Ally that’s recently been showcased and is set for an October launch. I won’t lie it does look in the same vein as the Switch 2, far too similar to the ROG Ally X model. Just with grips and a dedicated Xbox button. The Z2 Extreme chip has me intrigued, however. How much of a transcendental shift it makes is another question however. I’ll have to wait to receive official confirmation for a price and release date. But there’s also a Lenovo Legion Go 2 waiting in the wings. I hope we hear more information soon. Preferably before my 28th in August.Shahzaib Sadiq Tip of the iceberg Interesting to hear about Cyberpunk 2077 running well on the Switch 2. I think if they’re getting that kind of performance at launch, from a third party not use to working with Nintendo hardware, that bodes very well for the future.I think we’re probably underestimating the Switch 2 a lot at the moment and stuff we’ll be seeing in two or three years is going to be amazing, I predict. What I can’t predict is when we’ll hear about any of this. I really hope there’s a Nintendo Direct this week.Dano Changing opinions So just a little over a week with the Switch 2 and after initially feeling incredibly meh about the new console and Mario Kart a little more playtime has been more optimistic about the console and much more positive about Mario Kart World.It did feel odd having a new console from Nintendo that didn’t inspire that childlike excitement. An iterative upgrade isn’t very exciting and as I own a Steam Deck the advancements in processing weren’t all that exciting either. I can imagine someone who only bough an OG Switch back in 2017 really noticing the improvements but if you bought an OLED it’s basically a Switch Pro. The criminally low level of software support doesn’t help. I double dipped Street Fighter 6 only to discover I can’t transfer progress or DLC across from my Xbox, which sort of means if I want both profiles to have parity I have to buy everything twice! I also treated myself to a new Pro Controller and find using it for Street Fighter almost unplayable as the L and ZL buttons are far too easy to accidently press when playing. Mario Kart initially felt like more of the same and it was only after I made an effort to explore the world map, unlock characters and karts, and try the new grinding/ollie mechanic that it clicked. I am now really enjoying it, especially the remixed soundtracks. I do however want more Switch 2 exclusive experiences – going back through my back catalogue for improved frame rates doesn’t cut it Nintendo! As someone with a large digital library the system transfer was very frustrating and the new virtual cartridges are just awful – does a Switch 2 need to be online all the time now? Not the best idea for a portable system. So, the start of a new console lifecycle and hopefully lots of new IP – I suspect Nintendo will try and get us to revisit our back catalogues first though.BristolPete Inbox also-rans Just thought I would mention that if anyone’s interested in purchasing the Mortal Kombat 1 Definitive Edition, which includes all DLC, that it’s currently an absolute steal on the Xbox store at £21.99.Nick The GreekI’ve just won my first Knockout Tour online race on Mario Kart World! I’ve got to say, the feeling is magnificent.Rable More Trending Email your comments to: gamecentral@metro.co.uk The small printNew Inbox updates appear every weekday morning, with special Hot Topic Inboxes at the weekend. Readers’ letters are used on merit and may be edited for length and content. You can also submit your own 500 to 600-word Reader’s Feature at any time via email or our Submit Stuff page, which if used will be shown in the next available weekend slot. You can also leave your comments below and don’t forget to follow us on Twitter. Arrow MORE: Games Inbox: Is Mario Kart World too hard? GameCentral Sign up for exclusive analysis, latest releases, and bonus community content. This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply. Your information will be used in line with our Privacy Policy #games #inbox #would #xbox #ever
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    Games Inbox: Would Xbox ever shut down Game Pass?
    Game Pass – will it continue forever? (Microsoft) The Monday letters page struggles to predict what’s going to happen with the PlayStation 6, as one reader sees their opinion of the Switch 2 change over time. To join in with the discussions yourself email gamecentral@metro.co.uk Final Pass I agree with a lot of what was said about the current state of Xbox in the Reader’s Feature this weekend and how the more Microsoft spends, and the more companies they own, the less the seem to be in control. Which is very strange really.The biggest recent failure has got to be Game Pass, which has not had the impact they expected and yet they don’t seem ready to acknowledge that. If they’re thinking of increasing the price again, like those rumours say, then I think that will be the point at which you can draw a line under the whole idea and admit it’s never going to catch on. But would Microsoft ever shut down Game Pass completely? I feel that would almost be more humiliating than stopping making consoles, so I can’t really imagine it. Instead, they’ll make it more and more expensive and put more and more restrictions on day one games until it’s no longer recognisable.Grackle Panic button Strange to see Sony talking relatively openly about Nintendo and Microsoft as competition. I can’t remember the last time they mentioned either of them, even if they obviously would prefer not to have, if they hadn’t been asked by investors.At no point did they acknowledge that the Switch has completely outsold both their last two consoles, so I’m not sure where their confidence comes from. I guess it’s from the fact that they know they’ve done nothing this gen and still come out on top, so from their perspective they’ve got plenty in reserve. Expert, exclusive gaming analysis Sign up to the GameCentral newsletter for a unique take on the week in gaming, alongside the latest reviews and more. Delivered to your inbox every Saturday morning. Having your panic button being ‘do anything at all’ must be pretty reassuring really. Nintendo has had to work to get where they are with the Switch but Sony is just coasting it.Lupus James’ LadderJacob’s Ladder is a film I’ve been meaning to watch for a while, and I guessed the ending quite early on, but it feels like a Silent Hill film. I don’t know if you guys have seen it but it’s an excellent film and the hospital scene near the end, and the cages blocking off the underground early on, just remind me of the game. A depressing film overall but worth a watch.Simon GC: Jacob’s Ladder was as a major influence on Silent Hill 2 in particular, even the jacket James is wearing is the same. Email your comments to: gamecentral@metro.co.uk Seeing the future I know everyone likes to think of themselves as Nostradamus, but I have to admit I have absolutely no clue what Sony is planning for the PlayStation 6. A new console that is just the usual update, that sits under your TV, is easy enough to imagine but surely they’re not going to do that again?But the idea of having new home and portable machines that come out at the same time seems so unlikely to me. Surely the portable wouldn’t be a separate format, but I can’t see it being any kind of portable that runs its own games because it’d never be as powerful as the home machine. So, it’s really just a PlayStation Portal 2? Like I said, I don’t know, but for some reason I have a bad feeling about that the next gen and whatever Sony does end up unveiling. I suspect that whatever they and Microsoft does it’s going to end up making the Switch 2 (and PC) seem even more appealing by comparison.Gonch Hidden insight I’m not going to say that Welcome Tour is a good game but what I will say is that I found it very interesting at times and I’m actually kind of surprised that Nintendo revealed some of the information that they did. Most of it could probably be found out by reverse engineering it and just taking it apart but I’m still surprised it went into as much detail as it did.You’re right that it’s all presented in a very dull way but personally I found the ‘Insights’ to be the best part of the game. The minigames really are not very good and I was always glad when they were over. So, while I would not necessarily recommend the game (it’s not really a game) I would say that it can be of interest to people who have an interest in how consoles work and how Nintendo think.Mogwai Purchase privilege I’ve recently had the privilege of buying Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 from the website CDKeys, using a 10% discount code. I was lucky enough to only spend a total of £25.99; much cheaper than purchasing the title for console. If only Ubisoft had the foresight to see what they allowed to slip through their fingers. I’d also like to mention that from what I’ve read quite recently ,and a couple of mixed views, I don’t see myself cancelling my Switch 2. On the contrary, it just is coming across as a disappointment.From the battery life to the lack of launch titles, an empty open world is never a smart choice to make not even Mario is safe from that. That leaves the upcoming ROG Xbox Ally that’s recently been showcased and is set for an October launch. I won’t lie it does look in the same vein as the Switch 2, far too similar to the ROG Ally X model. Just with grips and a dedicated Xbox button. The Z2 Extreme chip has me intrigued, however. How much of a transcendental shift it makes is another question however. I’ll have to wait to receive official confirmation for a price and release date. But there’s also a Lenovo Legion Go 2 waiting in the wings. I hope we hear more information soon. Preferably before my 28th in August.Shahzaib Sadiq Tip of the iceberg Interesting to hear about Cyberpunk 2077 running well on the Switch 2. I think if they’re getting that kind of performance at launch, from a third party not use to working with Nintendo hardware, that bodes very well for the future.I think we’re probably underestimating the Switch 2 a lot at the moment and stuff we’ll be seeing in two or three years is going to be amazing, I predict. What I can’t predict is when we’ll hear about any of this. I really hope there’s a Nintendo Direct this week.Dano Changing opinions So just a little over a week with the Switch 2 and after initially feeling incredibly meh about the new console and Mario Kart a little more playtime has been more optimistic about the console and much more positive about Mario Kart World.It did feel odd having a new console from Nintendo that didn’t inspire that childlike excitement. An iterative upgrade isn’t very exciting and as I own a Steam Deck the advancements in processing weren’t all that exciting either. I can imagine someone who only bough an OG Switch back in 2017 really noticing the improvements but if you bought an OLED it’s basically a Switch Pro (minus the OLED). The criminally low level of software support doesn’t help. I double dipped Street Fighter 6 only to discover I can’t transfer progress or DLC across from my Xbox, which sort of means if I want both profiles to have parity I have to buy everything twice! I also treated myself to a new Pro Controller and find using it for Street Fighter almost unplayable as the L and ZL buttons are far too easy to accidently press when playing. Mario Kart initially felt like more of the same and it was only after I made an effort to explore the world map, unlock characters and karts, and try the new grinding/ollie mechanic that it clicked. I am now really enjoying it, especially the remixed soundtracks. I do however want more Switch 2 exclusive experiences – going back through my back catalogue for improved frame rates doesn’t cut it Nintendo! As someone with a large digital library the system transfer was very frustrating and the new virtual cartridges are just awful – does a Switch 2 need to be online all the time now? Not the best idea for a portable system. So, the start of a new console lifecycle and hopefully lots of new IP – I suspect Nintendo will try and get us to revisit our back catalogues first though.BristolPete Inbox also-rans Just thought I would mention that if anyone’s interested in purchasing the Mortal Kombat 1 Definitive Edition, which includes all DLC, that it’s currently an absolute steal on the Xbox store at £21.99.Nick The GreekI’ve just won my first Knockout Tour online race on Mario Kart World! I’ve got to say, the feeling is magnificent.Rable More Trending Email your comments to: gamecentral@metro.co.uk The small printNew Inbox updates appear every weekday morning, with special Hot Topic Inboxes at the weekend. Readers’ letters are used on merit and may be edited for length and content. You can also submit your own 500 to 600-word Reader’s Feature at any time via email or our Submit Stuff page, which if used will be shown in the next available weekend slot. You can also leave your comments below and don’t forget to follow us on Twitter. Arrow MORE: Games Inbox: Is Mario Kart World too hard? GameCentral Sign up for exclusive analysis, latest releases, and bonus community content. This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply. Your information will be used in line with our Privacy Policy
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  • 8 Stunning Sunset Color Palettes

    8 Stunning Sunset Color Palettes
    Zoe Santoro • 

    In this article:See more ▼Post may contain affiliate links which give us commissions at no cost to you.There’s something absolutely magical about watching the sun dip below the horizon, painting the sky in breathtaking hues that seem almost too beautiful to be real. As a designer, I find myself constantly inspired by these natural masterpieces that unfold before us every evening. The way warm oranges melt into soft pinks, how deep purples blend seamlessly with golden yellows – it’s like nature’s own masterclass in color theory.
    If you’re looking to infuse your next project with the warmth, romance, and natural beauty of a perfect sunset, you’ve come to the right place. I’ve curated eight of the most captivating sunset color palettes that will bring that golden hour magic directly into your designs.
    Psst... Did you know you can get unlimited downloads of 59,000+ fonts and millions of other creative assets for just /mo? Learn more »The 8 Most Breathtaking Sunset Color Palettes
    1. Golden Hour Glow

    #FFD700

    #FF8C00

    #FF6347

    #CD5C5C

    Download this color palette

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    This palette captures that perfect moment when everything seems to be touched by liquid gold. The warm yellows transition beautifully into rich oranges and soft coral reds, creating a sense of warmth and optimism that’s impossible to ignore. I find this combination works wonderfully for brands that want to evoke feelings of happiness, energy, and positivity.
    2. Tropical Paradise

    #FF69B4

    #FF1493

    #FF8C00

    #FFD700

    Download this color palette

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    Inspired by those incredible sunsets you see in tropical destinations, this vibrant palette combines hot pinks with brilliant oranges and golden yellows. It’s bold, it’s energetic, and it’s perfect for projects that need to make a statement. I love using these colors for summer campaigns or anything that needs to capture that vacation feeling.
    3. Desert Dreams

    #CD853F

    #D2691E

    #B22222

    #8B0000

    Download this color palette

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    Get 300+ Fonts for FREEEnter your email to download our 100% free "Font Lover's Bundle". For commercial & personal use. No royalties. No fees. No attribution. 100% free to use anywhere.

    The American Southwest produces some of the most spectacular sunsets on earth, and this palette pays homage to those incredible desert skies. The earthy browns blend into warm oranges before deepening into rich reds and burgundies. This combination brings a sense of grounding and authenticity that works beautifully for rustic or heritage brands.
    4. Pastel Evening

    #FFE4E1

    #FFA07A

    #F0E68C

    #DDA0DD

    Download this color palette

    735×1102
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    2160×3840
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    Not every sunset needs to be bold and dramatic. This softer palette captures those gentle, dreamy evenings when the sky looks like it’s been painted with watercolors. The delicate pinks, peaches, and lavenders create a romantic, ethereal feeling that’s perfect for wedding designs, beauty brands, or any project that needs a touch of feminine elegance.
    5. Coastal Sunset

    #fae991

    #FF7F50

    #FF6347

    #4169E1

    #1E90FF

    Download this color palette

    735×1102
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    2160×3840
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    There’s something special about watching the sun set over the ocean, where warm oranges and corals meet the deep blues of the sea and sky. This palette captures that perfect contrast between warm and cool tones. I find it creates a sense of adventure and wanderlust that’s ideal for travel brands or outdoor companies.
    6. Urban Twilight

    #ffeda3

    #fdad52

    #fc8a6e

    #575475

    #111f2a

    Download this color palette

    735×1102
    Pinterest image

    2160×3840
    Vertical wallpaper

    900×900
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    As the sun sets behind city skylines, you get these incredible contrasts between deep purples and vibrant oranges. This sophisticated palette brings together the mystery of twilight with the warmth of the setting sun. It’s perfect for creating designs that feel both modern and dramatic.
    7. Autumn Harvest

    #FF4500

    #FF8C00

    #DAA520

    #8B4513

    Download this color palette

    735×1102
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    2160×3840
    Vertical wallpaper

    900×900
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    This palette captures those perfect fall evenings when the sunset seems to echo the changing leaves. The deep oranges and golden yellows create a cozy, inviting feeling that’s perfect for seasonal campaigns or brands that want to evoke comfort and tradition.
    8. Fire Sky

    #652220

    #DC143C

    #FF0000

    #FF4500

    #FF8C00

    Download this color palette

    735×1102
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    Sometimes nature puts on a show that’s so intense it takes your breath away. This bold, fiery palette captures those dramatic sunsets that look like the sky is literally on fire. It’s not for the faint of heart, but when you need maximum impact and energy, these colors deliver in spades.
    Why Sunset Colors Never Go Out of Style
    Before we explore how to use these palettes effectively, let’s talk about why sunset colors have such enduring appeal in design. There’s something deeply ingrained in human psychology that responds to these warm, glowing hues. They remind us of endings and beginnings, of peaceful moments and natural beauty.
    From a design perspective, sunset colors offer incredible versatility. They can be bold and energetic or soft and romantic. They work equally well for corporate branding and personal projects. And perhaps most importantly, they’re inherently optimistic – they make people feel good.
    I’ve found that incorporating sunset-inspired colors into modern projects adds an instant sense of warmth and approachability that resonates with audiences across all demographics. Whether you’re working on packaging design, web interfaces, or environmental graphics, these palettes can help create an emotional connection that goes beyond mere aesthetics.
    How to Master Sunset Palettes in Contemporary Design
    Using sunset colors effectively requires more than just picking pretty hues and hoping for the best. Here are some strategies I’ve developed for incorporating these palettes into modern design work:
    Start with Temperature Balance
    One of the most important aspects of working with sunset palettes is understanding color temperature. Most sunset combinations naturally include both warm and cool elements – the warm oranges and yellows of the sun itself, balanced by the cooler purples and blues of the surrounding sky. Maintaining this temperature balance keeps your designs from feeling flat or monotonous.
    Layer for Depth
    Real sunsets have incredible depth and dimension, with colors layering and blending into each other. Try to recreate this in your designs by using gradients, overlays, or layered elements rather than flat blocks of color. This approach creates visual interest and mimics the natural way these colors appear in nature.
    Consider Context and Contrast
    While sunset colors are beautiful, they need to work within the context of your overall design. Pay attention to readability – text needs sufficient contrast against sunset backgrounds. Consider using neutrals like deep charcoal or cream to provide breathing room and ensure your message remains clear.
    Embrace Gradual Transitions
    The magic of a sunset lies in how colors flow seamlessly from one to another. Incorporate this principle into your designs through smooth gradients, subtle color shifts, or elements that bridge between different hues in your palette.
    The Science Behind Our Sunset Obsession
    As someone who’s spent years studying color psychology, I’m fascinated by why sunset colors have such universal appeal. Research suggests that warm colors like those found in sunsets trigger positive emotional responses and can even increase feelings of comfort and security.
    There’s also the association factor – sunsets are linked in our minds with relaxation, beauty, and positive experiences. When we see these colors in design, we unconsciously associate them with those same positive feelings. This makes sunset palettes particularly effective for brands that want to create emotional connections with their audiences.
    The cyclical nature of sunsets also plays a role. They happen every day, marking the transition from activity to rest, from work to leisure. This gives sunset colors a sense of familiarity and comfort that few other color combinations can match.
    Applying Sunset Palettes Across Design Disciplines
    One of the things I love most about sunset color palettes is how adaptable they are across different types of design work:
    Brand Identity Design
    Sunset colors can help brands convey warmth, optimism, and approachability. I’ve used variations of these palettes for everything from artisanal food companies to wellness brands. The key is choosing the right intensity level for your brand’s personality – softer palettes for more refined brands, bolder combinations for companies that want to make a statement.
    Digital Design
    In web and app design, sunset colors can create interfaces that feel warm and inviting rather than cold and clinical. I often use these palettes for backgrounds, accent elements, or call-to-action buttons. The natural flow between colors makes them perfect for creating smooth user experiences that guide the eye naturally through content.
    Print and Packaging
    Sunset palettes really shine in print applications where you can take advantage of rich, saturated colors. They work beautifully for packaging design, particularly for products associated with warmth, comfort, or natural ingredients. The key is ensuring your color reproduction is accurate – sunset colors can look muddy if not handled properly in print.
    Environmental Design
    In spaces, sunset colors can create incredibly welcoming environments. I’ve seen these palettes used effectively in restaurants, retail spaces, and even corporate offices where the goal is to create a sense of warmth and community.
    Seasonal Considerations and Trending Applications
    While sunset colors are timeless, they do have natural seasonal associations that smart designers can leverage. The warmer, more intense sunset palettes work beautifully for fall and winter campaigns, while the softer, more pastel variations are perfect for spring and summer applications.
    I’ve noticed a growing trend toward using sunset palettes in unexpected contexts – tech companies embracing warm gradients, financial services using sunset colors to appear more approachable, and healthcare brands incorporating these hues to create more comforting environments.
    Conclusion: Bringing Natural Beauty Into Modern Design
    As we’ve explored these eight stunning sunset color palettes, I hope you’ve gained new appreciation for the incredible design potential that nature provides us every single day. These colors aren’t just beautiful – they’re powerful tools for creating emotional connections, conveying brand values, and making designs that truly resonate with people.
    The secret to successfully using sunset palettes lies in understanding both their emotional impact and their technical requirements. Don’t be afraid to experiment with different combinations and intensities, but always keep your audience and context in mind.
    Remember, the best sunset colors aren’t just about picking the prettiest hues – they’re about capturing the feeling of those magical moments when day transitions to night. Whether you’re creating a logo that needs to convey warmth and trust, designing a website that should feel welcoming and approachable, or developing packaging that needs to stand out on crowded shelves, these sunset-inspired palettes offer endless possibilities.
    So the next time you catch yourself stopped in your tracks by a particularly stunning sunset, take a moment to really study those colors. Notice how they blend and flow, how they make you feel, and how they change as the light shifts. Then bring that natural magic into your next design project.
    After all, if nature can create such breathtaking color combinations every single day, imagine what we can achieve when we learn from the master. Happy designing!

    Zoe Santoro

    Zoe is an art student and graphic designer with a passion for creativity and adventure. Whether she’s sketching in a cozy café or capturing inspiration from vibrant cityscapes, she finds beauty in every corner of the world. With a love for bold colors, clean design, and storytelling through visuals, Zoe blends her artistic skills with her wanderlust to create stunning, travel-inspired designs. Follow her journey as she explores new places, discovers fresh inspiration, and shares her creative process along the way.

    10 Warm Color Palettes That’ll Brighten Your DayThere’s nothing quite like the embracing quality of warm colors to make a design feel inviting and alive. As someone...These 1920s Color Palettes are ‘Greater than Gatsby’There’s something undeniably captivating about the color schemes of the Roaring Twenties. As a designer with a passion for historical...How Fonts Influence Tone and Clarity in Animated VideosAudiences interact differently with messages based on which fonts designers choose to use within a text presentation. Fonts shape how...
    #stunning #sunset #color #palettes
    8 Stunning Sunset Color Palettes
    8 Stunning Sunset Color Palettes Zoe Santoro •  In this article:See more ▼Post may contain affiliate links which give us commissions at no cost to you.There’s something absolutely magical about watching the sun dip below the horizon, painting the sky in breathtaking hues that seem almost too beautiful to be real. As a designer, I find myself constantly inspired by these natural masterpieces that unfold before us every evening. The way warm oranges melt into soft pinks, how deep purples blend seamlessly with golden yellows – it’s like nature’s own masterclass in color theory. If you’re looking to infuse your next project with the warmth, romance, and natural beauty of a perfect sunset, you’ve come to the right place. I’ve curated eight of the most captivating sunset color palettes that will bring that golden hour magic directly into your designs. 👋 Psst... Did you know you can get unlimited downloads of 59,000+ fonts and millions of other creative assets for just /mo? Learn more »The 8 Most Breathtaking Sunset Color Palettes 1. Golden Hour Glow #FFD700 #FF8C00 #FF6347 #CD5C5C Download this color palette 735×1102 Pinterest image 2160×3840 Vertical wallpaper 900×900 Square 3840×2160 4K Wallpaper This palette captures that perfect moment when everything seems to be touched by liquid gold. The warm yellows transition beautifully into rich oranges and soft coral reds, creating a sense of warmth and optimism that’s impossible to ignore. I find this combination works wonderfully for brands that want to evoke feelings of happiness, energy, and positivity. 2. Tropical Paradise #FF69B4 #FF1493 #FF8C00 #FFD700 Download this color palette 735×1102 Pinterest image 2160×3840 Vertical wallpaper 900×900 Square 3840×2160 4K Wallpaper Inspired by those incredible sunsets you see in tropical destinations, this vibrant palette combines hot pinks with brilliant oranges and golden yellows. It’s bold, it’s energetic, and it’s perfect for projects that need to make a statement. I love using these colors for summer campaigns or anything that needs to capture that vacation feeling. 3. Desert Dreams #CD853F #D2691E #B22222 #8B0000 Download this color palette 735×1102 Pinterest image 2160×3840 Vertical wallpaper 900×900 Square 3840×2160 4K Wallpaper Get 300+ Fonts for FREEEnter your email to download our 100% free "Font Lover's Bundle". For commercial & personal use. No royalties. No fees. No attribution. 100% free to use anywhere. The American Southwest produces some of the most spectacular sunsets on earth, and this palette pays homage to those incredible desert skies. The earthy browns blend into warm oranges before deepening into rich reds and burgundies. This combination brings a sense of grounding and authenticity that works beautifully for rustic or heritage brands. 4. Pastel Evening #FFE4E1 #FFA07A #F0E68C #DDA0DD Download this color palette 735×1102 Pinterest image 2160×3840 Vertical wallpaper 900×900 Square 3840×2160 4K Wallpaper Not every sunset needs to be bold and dramatic. This softer palette captures those gentle, dreamy evenings when the sky looks like it’s been painted with watercolors. The delicate pinks, peaches, and lavenders create a romantic, ethereal feeling that’s perfect for wedding designs, beauty brands, or any project that needs a touch of feminine elegance. 5. Coastal Sunset #fae991 #FF7F50 #FF6347 #4169E1 #1E90FF Download this color palette 735×1102 Pinterest image 2160×3840 Vertical wallpaper 900×900 Square 3840×2160 4K Wallpaper There’s something special about watching the sun set over the ocean, where warm oranges and corals meet the deep blues of the sea and sky. This palette captures that perfect contrast between warm and cool tones. I find it creates a sense of adventure and wanderlust that’s ideal for travel brands or outdoor companies. 6. Urban Twilight #ffeda3 #fdad52 #fc8a6e #575475 #111f2a Download this color palette 735×1102 Pinterest image 2160×3840 Vertical wallpaper 900×900 Square 3840×2160 4K Wallpaper As the sun sets behind city skylines, you get these incredible contrasts between deep purples and vibrant oranges. This sophisticated palette brings together the mystery of twilight with the warmth of the setting sun. It’s perfect for creating designs that feel both modern and dramatic. 7. Autumn Harvest #FF4500 #FF8C00 #DAA520 #8B4513 Download this color palette 735×1102 Pinterest image 2160×3840 Vertical wallpaper 900×900 Square 3840×2160 4K Wallpaper This palette captures those perfect fall evenings when the sunset seems to echo the changing leaves. The deep oranges and golden yellows create a cozy, inviting feeling that’s perfect for seasonal campaigns or brands that want to evoke comfort and tradition. 8. Fire Sky #652220 #DC143C #FF0000 #FF4500 #FF8C00 Download this color palette 735×1102 Pinterest image 2160×3840 Vertical wallpaper 900×900 Square 3840×2160 4K Wallpaper Sometimes nature puts on a show that’s so intense it takes your breath away. This bold, fiery palette captures those dramatic sunsets that look like the sky is literally on fire. It’s not for the faint of heart, but when you need maximum impact and energy, these colors deliver in spades. Why Sunset Colors Never Go Out of Style Before we explore how to use these palettes effectively, let’s talk about why sunset colors have such enduring appeal in design. There’s something deeply ingrained in human psychology that responds to these warm, glowing hues. They remind us of endings and beginnings, of peaceful moments and natural beauty. From a design perspective, sunset colors offer incredible versatility. They can be bold and energetic or soft and romantic. They work equally well for corporate branding and personal projects. And perhaps most importantly, they’re inherently optimistic – they make people feel good. I’ve found that incorporating sunset-inspired colors into modern projects adds an instant sense of warmth and approachability that resonates with audiences across all demographics. Whether you’re working on packaging design, web interfaces, or environmental graphics, these palettes can help create an emotional connection that goes beyond mere aesthetics. How to Master Sunset Palettes in Contemporary Design Using sunset colors effectively requires more than just picking pretty hues and hoping for the best. Here are some strategies I’ve developed for incorporating these palettes into modern design work: Start with Temperature Balance One of the most important aspects of working with sunset palettes is understanding color temperature. Most sunset combinations naturally include both warm and cool elements – the warm oranges and yellows of the sun itself, balanced by the cooler purples and blues of the surrounding sky. Maintaining this temperature balance keeps your designs from feeling flat or monotonous. Layer for Depth Real sunsets have incredible depth and dimension, with colors layering and blending into each other. Try to recreate this in your designs by using gradients, overlays, or layered elements rather than flat blocks of color. This approach creates visual interest and mimics the natural way these colors appear in nature. Consider Context and Contrast While sunset colors are beautiful, they need to work within the context of your overall design. Pay attention to readability – text needs sufficient contrast against sunset backgrounds. Consider using neutrals like deep charcoal or cream to provide breathing room and ensure your message remains clear. Embrace Gradual Transitions The magic of a sunset lies in how colors flow seamlessly from one to another. Incorporate this principle into your designs through smooth gradients, subtle color shifts, or elements that bridge between different hues in your palette. The Science Behind Our Sunset Obsession As someone who’s spent years studying color psychology, I’m fascinated by why sunset colors have such universal appeal. Research suggests that warm colors like those found in sunsets trigger positive emotional responses and can even increase feelings of comfort and security. There’s also the association factor – sunsets are linked in our minds with relaxation, beauty, and positive experiences. When we see these colors in design, we unconsciously associate them with those same positive feelings. This makes sunset palettes particularly effective for brands that want to create emotional connections with their audiences. The cyclical nature of sunsets also plays a role. They happen every day, marking the transition from activity to rest, from work to leisure. This gives sunset colors a sense of familiarity and comfort that few other color combinations can match. Applying Sunset Palettes Across Design Disciplines One of the things I love most about sunset color palettes is how adaptable they are across different types of design work: Brand Identity Design Sunset colors can help brands convey warmth, optimism, and approachability. I’ve used variations of these palettes for everything from artisanal food companies to wellness brands. The key is choosing the right intensity level for your brand’s personality – softer palettes for more refined brands, bolder combinations for companies that want to make a statement. Digital Design In web and app design, sunset colors can create interfaces that feel warm and inviting rather than cold and clinical. I often use these palettes for backgrounds, accent elements, or call-to-action buttons. The natural flow between colors makes them perfect for creating smooth user experiences that guide the eye naturally through content. Print and Packaging Sunset palettes really shine in print applications where you can take advantage of rich, saturated colors. They work beautifully for packaging design, particularly for products associated with warmth, comfort, or natural ingredients. The key is ensuring your color reproduction is accurate – sunset colors can look muddy if not handled properly in print. Environmental Design In spaces, sunset colors can create incredibly welcoming environments. I’ve seen these palettes used effectively in restaurants, retail spaces, and even corporate offices where the goal is to create a sense of warmth and community. Seasonal Considerations and Trending Applications While sunset colors are timeless, they do have natural seasonal associations that smart designers can leverage. The warmer, more intense sunset palettes work beautifully for fall and winter campaigns, while the softer, more pastel variations are perfect for spring and summer applications. I’ve noticed a growing trend toward using sunset palettes in unexpected contexts – tech companies embracing warm gradients, financial services using sunset colors to appear more approachable, and healthcare brands incorporating these hues to create more comforting environments. Conclusion: Bringing Natural Beauty Into Modern Design As we’ve explored these eight stunning sunset color palettes, I hope you’ve gained new appreciation for the incredible design potential that nature provides us every single day. These colors aren’t just beautiful – they’re powerful tools for creating emotional connections, conveying brand values, and making designs that truly resonate with people. The secret to successfully using sunset palettes lies in understanding both their emotional impact and their technical requirements. Don’t be afraid to experiment with different combinations and intensities, but always keep your audience and context in mind. Remember, the best sunset colors aren’t just about picking the prettiest hues – they’re about capturing the feeling of those magical moments when day transitions to night. Whether you’re creating a logo that needs to convey warmth and trust, designing a website that should feel welcoming and approachable, or developing packaging that needs to stand out on crowded shelves, these sunset-inspired palettes offer endless possibilities. So the next time you catch yourself stopped in your tracks by a particularly stunning sunset, take a moment to really study those colors. Notice how they blend and flow, how they make you feel, and how they change as the light shifts. Then bring that natural magic into your next design project. After all, if nature can create such breathtaking color combinations every single day, imagine what we can achieve when we learn from the master. Happy designing! Zoe Santoro Zoe is an art student and graphic designer with a passion for creativity and adventure. Whether she’s sketching in a cozy café or capturing inspiration from vibrant cityscapes, she finds beauty in every corner of the world. With a love for bold colors, clean design, and storytelling through visuals, Zoe blends her artistic skills with her wanderlust to create stunning, travel-inspired designs. Follow her journey as she explores new places, discovers fresh inspiration, and shares her creative process along the way. 10 Warm Color Palettes That’ll Brighten Your DayThere’s nothing quite like the embracing quality of warm colors to make a design feel inviting and alive. As someone...These 1920s Color Palettes are ‘Greater than Gatsby’There’s something undeniably captivating about the color schemes of the Roaring Twenties. As a designer with a passion for historical...How Fonts Influence Tone and Clarity in Animated VideosAudiences interact differently with messages based on which fonts designers choose to use within a text presentation. Fonts shape how... #stunning #sunset #color #palettes
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    8 Stunning Sunset Color Palettes
    8 Stunning Sunset Color Palettes Zoe Santoro •  In this article:See more ▼Post may contain affiliate links which give us commissions at no cost to you.There’s something absolutely magical about watching the sun dip below the horizon, painting the sky in breathtaking hues that seem almost too beautiful to be real. As a designer, I find myself constantly inspired by these natural masterpieces that unfold before us every evening. The way warm oranges melt into soft pinks, how deep purples blend seamlessly with golden yellows – it’s like nature’s own masterclass in color theory. If you’re looking to infuse your next project with the warmth, romance, and natural beauty of a perfect sunset, you’ve come to the right place. I’ve curated eight of the most captivating sunset color palettes that will bring that golden hour magic directly into your designs. 👋 Psst... Did you know you can get unlimited downloads of 59,000+ fonts and millions of other creative assets for just $16.95/mo? Learn more »The 8 Most Breathtaking Sunset Color Palettes 1. Golden Hour Glow #FFD700 #FF8C00 #FF6347 #CD5C5C Download this color palette 735×1102 Pinterest image 2160×3840 Vertical wallpaper 900×900 Square 3840×2160 4K Wallpaper This palette captures that perfect moment when everything seems to be touched by liquid gold. The warm yellows transition beautifully into rich oranges and soft coral reds, creating a sense of warmth and optimism that’s impossible to ignore. I find this combination works wonderfully for brands that want to evoke feelings of happiness, energy, and positivity. 2. Tropical Paradise #FF69B4 #FF1493 #FF8C00 #FFD700 Download this color palette 735×1102 Pinterest image 2160×3840 Vertical wallpaper 900×900 Square 3840×2160 4K Wallpaper Inspired by those incredible sunsets you see in tropical destinations, this vibrant palette combines hot pinks with brilliant oranges and golden yellows. It’s bold, it’s energetic, and it’s perfect for projects that need to make a statement. I love using these colors for summer campaigns or anything that needs to capture that vacation feeling. 3. Desert Dreams #CD853F #D2691E #B22222 #8B0000 Download this color palette 735×1102 Pinterest image 2160×3840 Vertical wallpaper 900×900 Square 3840×2160 4K Wallpaper Get 300+ Fonts for FREEEnter your email to download our 100% free "Font Lover's Bundle". For commercial & personal use. No royalties. No fees. No attribution. 100% free to use anywhere. The American Southwest produces some of the most spectacular sunsets on earth, and this palette pays homage to those incredible desert skies. The earthy browns blend into warm oranges before deepening into rich reds and burgundies. This combination brings a sense of grounding and authenticity that works beautifully for rustic or heritage brands. 4. Pastel Evening #FFE4E1 #FFA07A #F0E68C #DDA0DD Download this color palette 735×1102 Pinterest image 2160×3840 Vertical wallpaper 900×900 Square 3840×2160 4K Wallpaper Not every sunset needs to be bold and dramatic. This softer palette captures those gentle, dreamy evenings when the sky looks like it’s been painted with watercolors. The delicate pinks, peaches, and lavenders create a romantic, ethereal feeling that’s perfect for wedding designs, beauty brands, or any project that needs a touch of feminine elegance. 5. Coastal Sunset #fae991 #FF7F50 #FF6347 #4169E1 #1E90FF Download this color palette 735×1102 Pinterest image 2160×3840 Vertical wallpaper 900×900 Square 3840×2160 4K Wallpaper There’s something special about watching the sun set over the ocean, where warm oranges and corals meet the deep blues of the sea and sky. This palette captures that perfect contrast between warm and cool tones. I find it creates a sense of adventure and wanderlust that’s ideal for travel brands or outdoor companies. 6. Urban Twilight #ffeda3 #fdad52 #fc8a6e #575475 #111f2a Download this color palette 735×1102 Pinterest image 2160×3840 Vertical wallpaper 900×900 Square 3840×2160 4K Wallpaper As the sun sets behind city skylines, you get these incredible contrasts between deep purples and vibrant oranges. This sophisticated palette brings together the mystery of twilight with the warmth of the setting sun. It’s perfect for creating designs that feel both modern and dramatic. 7. Autumn Harvest #FF4500 #FF8C00 #DAA520 #8B4513 Download this color palette 735×1102 Pinterest image 2160×3840 Vertical wallpaper 900×900 Square 3840×2160 4K Wallpaper This palette captures those perfect fall evenings when the sunset seems to echo the changing leaves. The deep oranges and golden yellows create a cozy, inviting feeling that’s perfect for seasonal campaigns or brands that want to evoke comfort and tradition. 8. Fire Sky #652220 #DC143C #FF0000 #FF4500 #FF8C00 Download this color palette 735×1102 Pinterest image 2160×3840 Vertical wallpaper 900×900 Square 3840×2160 4K Wallpaper Sometimes nature puts on a show that’s so intense it takes your breath away. This bold, fiery palette captures those dramatic sunsets that look like the sky is literally on fire. It’s not for the faint of heart, but when you need maximum impact and energy, these colors deliver in spades. Why Sunset Colors Never Go Out of Style Before we explore how to use these palettes effectively, let’s talk about why sunset colors have such enduring appeal in design. There’s something deeply ingrained in human psychology that responds to these warm, glowing hues. They remind us of endings and beginnings, of peaceful moments and natural beauty. From a design perspective, sunset colors offer incredible versatility. They can be bold and energetic or soft and romantic. They work equally well for corporate branding and personal projects. And perhaps most importantly, they’re inherently optimistic – they make people feel good. I’ve found that incorporating sunset-inspired colors into modern projects adds an instant sense of warmth and approachability that resonates with audiences across all demographics. Whether you’re working on packaging design, web interfaces, or environmental graphics, these palettes can help create an emotional connection that goes beyond mere aesthetics. How to Master Sunset Palettes in Contemporary Design Using sunset colors effectively requires more than just picking pretty hues and hoping for the best. Here are some strategies I’ve developed for incorporating these palettes into modern design work: Start with Temperature Balance One of the most important aspects of working with sunset palettes is understanding color temperature. Most sunset combinations naturally include both warm and cool elements – the warm oranges and yellows of the sun itself, balanced by the cooler purples and blues of the surrounding sky. Maintaining this temperature balance keeps your designs from feeling flat or monotonous. Layer for Depth Real sunsets have incredible depth and dimension, with colors layering and blending into each other. Try to recreate this in your designs by using gradients, overlays, or layered elements rather than flat blocks of color. This approach creates visual interest and mimics the natural way these colors appear in nature. Consider Context and Contrast While sunset colors are beautiful, they need to work within the context of your overall design. Pay attention to readability – text needs sufficient contrast against sunset backgrounds. Consider using neutrals like deep charcoal or cream to provide breathing room and ensure your message remains clear. Embrace Gradual Transitions The magic of a sunset lies in how colors flow seamlessly from one to another. Incorporate this principle into your designs through smooth gradients, subtle color shifts, or elements that bridge between different hues in your palette. The Science Behind Our Sunset Obsession As someone who’s spent years studying color psychology, I’m fascinated by why sunset colors have such universal appeal. Research suggests that warm colors like those found in sunsets trigger positive emotional responses and can even increase feelings of comfort and security. There’s also the association factor – sunsets are linked in our minds with relaxation, beauty, and positive experiences. When we see these colors in design, we unconsciously associate them with those same positive feelings. This makes sunset palettes particularly effective for brands that want to create emotional connections with their audiences. The cyclical nature of sunsets also plays a role. They happen every day, marking the transition from activity to rest, from work to leisure. This gives sunset colors a sense of familiarity and comfort that few other color combinations can match. Applying Sunset Palettes Across Design Disciplines One of the things I love most about sunset color palettes is how adaptable they are across different types of design work: Brand Identity Design Sunset colors can help brands convey warmth, optimism, and approachability. I’ve used variations of these palettes for everything from artisanal food companies to wellness brands. The key is choosing the right intensity level for your brand’s personality – softer palettes for more refined brands, bolder combinations for companies that want to make a statement. Digital Design In web and app design, sunset colors can create interfaces that feel warm and inviting rather than cold and clinical. I often use these palettes for backgrounds, accent elements, or call-to-action buttons. The natural flow between colors makes them perfect for creating smooth user experiences that guide the eye naturally through content. Print and Packaging Sunset palettes really shine in print applications where you can take advantage of rich, saturated colors. They work beautifully for packaging design, particularly for products associated with warmth, comfort, or natural ingredients. The key is ensuring your color reproduction is accurate – sunset colors can look muddy if not handled properly in print. Environmental Design In spaces, sunset colors can create incredibly welcoming environments. I’ve seen these palettes used effectively in restaurants, retail spaces, and even corporate offices where the goal is to create a sense of warmth and community. Seasonal Considerations and Trending Applications While sunset colors are timeless, they do have natural seasonal associations that smart designers can leverage. The warmer, more intense sunset palettes work beautifully for fall and winter campaigns, while the softer, more pastel variations are perfect for spring and summer applications. I’ve noticed a growing trend toward using sunset palettes in unexpected contexts – tech companies embracing warm gradients, financial services using sunset colors to appear more approachable, and healthcare brands incorporating these hues to create more comforting environments. Conclusion: Bringing Natural Beauty Into Modern Design As we’ve explored these eight stunning sunset color palettes, I hope you’ve gained new appreciation for the incredible design potential that nature provides us every single day. These colors aren’t just beautiful – they’re powerful tools for creating emotional connections, conveying brand values, and making designs that truly resonate with people. The secret to successfully using sunset palettes lies in understanding both their emotional impact and their technical requirements. Don’t be afraid to experiment with different combinations and intensities, but always keep your audience and context in mind. Remember, the best sunset colors aren’t just about picking the prettiest hues – they’re about capturing the feeling of those magical moments when day transitions to night. Whether you’re creating a logo that needs to convey warmth and trust, designing a website that should feel welcoming and approachable, or developing packaging that needs to stand out on crowded shelves, these sunset-inspired palettes offer endless possibilities. So the next time you catch yourself stopped in your tracks by a particularly stunning sunset, take a moment to really study those colors. Notice how they blend and flow, how they make you feel, and how they change as the light shifts. Then bring that natural magic into your next design project. After all, if nature can create such breathtaking color combinations every single day, imagine what we can achieve when we learn from the master. Happy designing! Zoe Santoro Zoe is an art student and graphic designer with a passion for creativity and adventure. Whether she’s sketching in a cozy café or capturing inspiration from vibrant cityscapes, she finds beauty in every corner of the world. With a love for bold colors, clean design, and storytelling through visuals, Zoe blends her artistic skills with her wanderlust to create stunning, travel-inspired designs. Follow her journey as she explores new places, discovers fresh inspiration, and shares her creative process along the way. 10 Warm Color Palettes That’ll Brighten Your DayThere’s nothing quite like the embracing quality of warm colors to make a design feel inviting and alive. As someone...These 1920s Color Palettes are ‘Greater than Gatsby’There’s something undeniably captivating about the color schemes of the Roaring Twenties. As a designer with a passion for historical...How Fonts Influence Tone and Clarity in Animated VideosAudiences interact differently with messages based on which fonts designers choose to use within a text presentation. Fonts shape how...
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  • 8 Sage Green Color Palettes You’ve Got to Experience

    8 Sage Green Color Palettes You’ve Got to Experience

    In this article:See more ▼Post may contain affiliate links which give us commissions at no cost to you.There’s something undeniably calming about sage green that makes it one of my absolute favorite colors to work with as a designer. This muted, earthy hue has this incredible ability to ground a space while still feeling fresh and contemporary. Whether you’re working on a branding project, designing an interior space, or creating digital content, sage green offers a versatility that few colors can match.
    What I love most about sage green is how it bridges the gap between trendy and timeless. It’s not going anywhere anytime soon, and honestly, I don’t think it ever should. This sophisticated color has been quietly revolutionizing design palettes across every industry, and today I’m excited to share eight of my favorite sage green color combinations that will elevate your next project.
    Psst... Did you know you can get unlimited downloads of 59,000+ fonts and millions of other creative assets for just /mo? Learn more »The 8 Most Inspiring Sage Green Color Palettes
    1. Garden Fresh

    #D2E5C4

    #B2C69E

    #95B07B

    #79955D

    #5A743C

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    This monochromatic sage palette is pure perfection for anyone wanting to create depth without complexity. I use this combination constantly in botanical-themed projects because it captures every shade of green you’d find in a thriving garden. The progression from light to dark creates natural hierarchy, making it incredibly functional for both print and digital work.
    2. Misty Morning

    #BDC9BB

    #ACBAA1

    #B2C1A2

    #A4B1A0

    #ADC3B7

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    When I need something soft and ethereal, this is my go-to palette. These gentle sage tones remind me of early morning fog rolling over hills. It’s perfect for wellness brands, spa environments, or any project that needs to evoke tranquility and peace. The subtle variations create interest without ever feeling overwhelming.
    3. Harvest Moon

    #9AAB89

    #647056

    #D6C388

    #F8C565

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    Get 300+ Fonts for FREEEnter your email to download our 100% free "Font Lover's Bundle". For commercial & personal use. No royalties. No fees. No attribution. 100% free to use anywhere.

    The combination of sage green with warm golds creates magic every single time. This palette captures that perfect autumn moment when the light hits everything just right. I love using this for brands that want to feel both grounded and optimistic – it’s earthy sophistication with a sunny disposition.
    4. Moody Botanical

    #4D5D42

    #6A894B

    #8DA67E

    #9B999A

    #C6B5DF

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    For projects that need a bit more drama, this palette delivers beautifully. The deeper sage tones paired with that unexpected lavender create intrigue without losing the calming essence of green. I find this combination works wonderfully for upscale restaurants or luxury lifestyle brands that want to feel approachable yet refined.
    5. Countryside Charm

    #A3AC9A

    #8A9A5B

    #93A395

    #748B74

    #827D67

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    This palette feels like a walk through the English countryside – all rolling hills and weathered stone walls. The mix of sage greens with those earthy undertones creates incredible depth. I use this combination for projects that need to feel established and trustworthy, like financial services or heritage brands.
    6. Industrial Farmhouse Zen

    #CED3D2

    #3F5054

    #6F675E

    #9CAB86

    #C8CAB5

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    The marriage of sage green with industrial grays might seem unexpected, but it creates this incredibly sophisticated modern aesthetic. This palette is perfect for tech companies or architectural firms that want to feel innovative yet grounded. The sage adds warmth to what could otherwise be cold, sterile colors.
    7. Desert Sage

    #9AAB89

    #B2AC88

    #A06464

    #8C909C

    #C9AD99

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    Inspired by the American Southwest, this palette combines sage with dusty terra cottas and warm beiges. There’s something so comforting about these colors together – they feel like sunset in the desert. I love using this for hospitality brands or any project that wants to evoke adventure and warmth.
    8. Forest Floor

    #B2C69E

    #ACB6A6

    #5B7553

    #745000

    #462800

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    This rich, earthy combination takes sage green into deeper territory with those gorgeous chocolate browns. It reminds me of walking through an old-growth forest where the light filters through layers of leaves. Perfect for organic brands, outdoor companies, or any project that wants to feel authentic and connected to nature.
    Why Sage Green Is Having Its Moment
    As someone who’s been watching color trends for years, I can tell you that sage green’s popularity isn’t just a passing fad. This color speaks to our collective desire for calm in an increasingly chaotic world. It’s the visual equivalent of taking a deep breath – immediately soothing and centering.
    The rise of biophilic design has also played a huge role in sage green’s dominance. As we spend more time indoors, we’re craving those connections to nature, and sage green delivers that botanical feeling without being overly literal. It’s nature-inspired design at its most sophisticated.
    What makes sage green particularly special is its incredible adaptability. Unlike brighter greens that can feel overwhelming or dated, sage green has this chameleon-like quality that allows it to work in virtually any context. Pair it with warm woods and it feels rustic; combine it with metallics and it becomes luxurious; add some crisp whites and suddenly it’s Scandinavian minimalism.
    Mastering Sage Green in Your Design Work
    The key to working with sage green successfully is understanding its undertones. Some sage greens lean more yellow, others more blue or gray. Recognizing these subtle differences will help you create more cohesive palettes and avoid color clashes that can make your work feel off.
    I always recommend testing your sage green palettes in different lighting conditions. What looks perfect on your computer screen might feel completely different in natural light or under warm artificial lighting. This is especially crucial for interior design projects or any work that will be viewed in physical spaces.
    When building palettes around sage green, I like to think about the mood I’m trying to create. For calm, peaceful vibes, I’ll pair it with other muted tones and plenty of white space. For something more energetic, I might add unexpected pops of coral or sunny yellow. The beauty of sage green is that it’s such a diplomatic color – it plays well with almost everything.

    Sage Green Across Different Design Applications
    Branding and Logo Design In branding work, sage green communicates reliability, growth, and environmental consciousness without hitting people over the head with it. I love using it for wellness companies, sustainable brands, and professional services that want to feel approachable. The key is pairing it with typography that reinforces your brand personality – clean sans serifs for modern feels, or elegant serifs for more traditional approaches.
    Interior Spaces Sage green walls have become incredibly popular, and for good reason. The color creates an instant sense of calm while still feeling current. I particularly love using darker sage greens in dining rooms or bedrooms where you want that cozy, enveloping feeling. Lighter sages work beautifully in kitchens and bathrooms where you want freshness without the sterility of pure white.
    Digital Design For websites and apps, sage green offers a refreshing alternative to the blues and grays that dominate digital design. It’s easy on the eyes, which makes it perfect for apps focused on wellness, meditation, or any platform where users will spend extended time. Just be mindful of accessibility – always test your sage green backgrounds with various text colors to ensure proper contrast ratios.
    Product Design The natural, organic feeling of sage green makes it perfect for product packaging, especially in the beauty, food, and wellness sectors. It communicates quality and naturalness without feeling overly earthy or crunchy. I’ve seen it work beautifully on everything from skincare packaging to high-end kitchen appliances.
    The Psychology Behind Sage Green’s Appeal
    Color psychology tells us that green represents growth, harmony, and balance – all things we desperately need in our modern lives. But sage green takes these positive associations and adds sophistication. It’s green without the intensity, nature without the rawness.
    There’s also something inherently honest about sage green. It doesn’t try too hard or demand attention the way brighter colors do. This authenticity resonates with consumers who are increasingly skeptical of brands that feel forced or overly polished. Sage green whispers where other colors shout, and sometimes that’s exactly what your message needs.
    Looking Forward: Sage Green’s Staying Power
    While I can’t predict the future, I’m confident that sage green will remain relevant for years to come. It hits all the right notes for contemporary design – it’s calming without being boring, natural without being literal, and sophisticated without being pretentious.
    The color also photographs beautifully, which matters more than ever in our Instagram-driven world. Whether it’s a sage green accent wall or a product shot featuring sage packaging, this color translates perfectly to social media, helping brands create that coveted “aesthetic” that drives engagement.
    As we continue to prioritize wellness and sustainability in design, sage green offers the perfect visual shorthand for these values. It’s a color that makes people feel good, and in a world that often doesn’t, that’s incredibly powerful.
    Bringing It All Together
    These eight sage green palettes represent just the beginning of what’s possible with this incredible color. Whether you’re drawn to the monochromatic serenity of Garden Fresh or the unexpected sophistication of Industrial Zen, there’s a sage green palette that can elevate your next project.
    The secret to success with sage green is trusting its natural elegance. Don’t feel like you need to overstyling or complicate things – sage green’s beauty lies in its understated sophistication. Let it be the calm, confident foundation that allows other elements of your design to shine.
    So go ahead and embrace the sage green revolution. Your designswill thank you for it. After all, in a world full of visual noise, sometimes the most powerful statement you can make is a quiet one.

    Riley Morgan

    Riley Morgan is a globe-trotting graphic designer with a sharp eye for color, typography, and intuitive design. They are a color lover and blend creativity with culture, drawing inspiration from cities, landscapes, and stories around the world. When they’re not designing sleek visuals for clients, they’re blogging about trends, tools, and the art of making design feel like home—wherever that may be.

    8 Stunning Sunset Color PalettesThere’s something absolutely magical about watching the sun dip below the horizon, painting the sky in breathtaking hues that seem...10 Warm Color Palettes That’ll Brighten Your DayThere’s nothing quite like the embracing quality of warm colors to make a design feel inviting and alive. As someone...10 Luxurious Jewel Tone Color PalettesAs a designer who’s always searching for color combinations that exude sophistication and richness, I find myself constantly returning to...
    #sage #green #color #palettes #youve
    8 Sage Green Color Palettes You’ve Got to Experience
    8 Sage Green Color Palettes You’ve Got to Experience In this article:See more ▼Post may contain affiliate links which give us commissions at no cost to you.There’s something undeniably calming about sage green that makes it one of my absolute favorite colors to work with as a designer. This muted, earthy hue has this incredible ability to ground a space while still feeling fresh and contemporary. Whether you’re working on a branding project, designing an interior space, or creating digital content, sage green offers a versatility that few colors can match. What I love most about sage green is how it bridges the gap between trendy and timeless. It’s not going anywhere anytime soon, and honestly, I don’t think it ever should. This sophisticated color has been quietly revolutionizing design palettes across every industry, and today I’m excited to share eight of my favorite sage green color combinations that will elevate your next project. 👋 Psst... Did you know you can get unlimited downloads of 59,000+ fonts and millions of other creative assets for just /mo? Learn more »The 8 Most Inspiring Sage Green Color Palettes 1. Garden Fresh #D2E5C4 #B2C69E #95B07B #79955D #5A743C Download this color palette 735×1102 Pinterest image 2160×3840 Vertical wallpaper 900×900 Square 3840×2160 4K Wallpaper This monochromatic sage palette is pure perfection for anyone wanting to create depth without complexity. I use this combination constantly in botanical-themed projects because it captures every shade of green you’d find in a thriving garden. The progression from light to dark creates natural hierarchy, making it incredibly functional for both print and digital work. 2. Misty Morning #BDC9BB #ACBAA1 #B2C1A2 #A4B1A0 #ADC3B7 Download this color palette 735×1102 Pinterest image 2160×3840 Vertical wallpaper 900×900 Square 3840×2160 4K Wallpaper When I need something soft and ethereal, this is my go-to palette. These gentle sage tones remind me of early morning fog rolling over hills. It’s perfect for wellness brands, spa environments, or any project that needs to evoke tranquility and peace. The subtle variations create interest without ever feeling overwhelming. 3. Harvest Moon #9AAB89 #647056 #D6C388 #F8C565 Download this color palette 735×1102 Pinterest image 2160×3840 Vertical wallpaper 900×900 Square 3840×2160 4K Wallpaper Get 300+ Fonts for FREEEnter your email to download our 100% free "Font Lover's Bundle". For commercial & personal use. No royalties. No fees. No attribution. 100% free to use anywhere. The combination of sage green with warm golds creates magic every single time. This palette captures that perfect autumn moment when the light hits everything just right. I love using this for brands that want to feel both grounded and optimistic – it’s earthy sophistication with a sunny disposition. 4. Moody Botanical #4D5D42 #6A894B #8DA67E #9B999A #C6B5DF Download this color palette 735×1102 Pinterest image 2160×3840 Vertical wallpaper 900×900 Square 3840×2160 4K Wallpaper For projects that need a bit more drama, this palette delivers beautifully. The deeper sage tones paired with that unexpected lavender create intrigue without losing the calming essence of green. I find this combination works wonderfully for upscale restaurants or luxury lifestyle brands that want to feel approachable yet refined. 5. Countryside Charm #A3AC9A #8A9A5B #93A395 #748B74 #827D67 Download this color palette 735×1102 Pinterest image 2160×3840 Vertical wallpaper 900×900 Square 3840×2160 4K Wallpaper This palette feels like a walk through the English countryside – all rolling hills and weathered stone walls. The mix of sage greens with those earthy undertones creates incredible depth. I use this combination for projects that need to feel established and trustworthy, like financial services or heritage brands. 6. Industrial Farmhouse Zen #CED3D2 #3F5054 #6F675E #9CAB86 #C8CAB5 Download this color palette 735×1102 Pinterest image 2160×3840 Vertical wallpaper 900×900 Square 3840×2160 4K Wallpaper The marriage of sage green with industrial grays might seem unexpected, but it creates this incredibly sophisticated modern aesthetic. This palette is perfect for tech companies or architectural firms that want to feel innovative yet grounded. The sage adds warmth to what could otherwise be cold, sterile colors. 7. Desert Sage #9AAB89 #B2AC88 #A06464 #8C909C #C9AD99 Download this color palette 735×1102 Pinterest image 2160×3840 Vertical wallpaper 900×900 Square 3840×2160 4K Wallpaper Inspired by the American Southwest, this palette combines sage with dusty terra cottas and warm beiges. There’s something so comforting about these colors together – they feel like sunset in the desert. I love using this for hospitality brands or any project that wants to evoke adventure and warmth. 8. Forest Floor #B2C69E #ACB6A6 #5B7553 #745000 #462800 Download this color palette 735×1102 Pinterest image 2160×3840 Vertical wallpaper 900×900 Square 3840×2160 4K Wallpaper This rich, earthy combination takes sage green into deeper territory with those gorgeous chocolate browns. It reminds me of walking through an old-growth forest where the light filters through layers of leaves. Perfect for organic brands, outdoor companies, or any project that wants to feel authentic and connected to nature. Why Sage Green Is Having Its Moment As someone who’s been watching color trends for years, I can tell you that sage green’s popularity isn’t just a passing fad. This color speaks to our collective desire for calm in an increasingly chaotic world. It’s the visual equivalent of taking a deep breath – immediately soothing and centering. The rise of biophilic design has also played a huge role in sage green’s dominance. As we spend more time indoors, we’re craving those connections to nature, and sage green delivers that botanical feeling without being overly literal. It’s nature-inspired design at its most sophisticated. What makes sage green particularly special is its incredible adaptability. Unlike brighter greens that can feel overwhelming or dated, sage green has this chameleon-like quality that allows it to work in virtually any context. Pair it with warm woods and it feels rustic; combine it with metallics and it becomes luxurious; add some crisp whites and suddenly it’s Scandinavian minimalism. Mastering Sage Green in Your Design Work The key to working with sage green successfully is understanding its undertones. Some sage greens lean more yellow, others more blue or gray. Recognizing these subtle differences will help you create more cohesive palettes and avoid color clashes that can make your work feel off. I always recommend testing your sage green palettes in different lighting conditions. What looks perfect on your computer screen might feel completely different in natural light or under warm artificial lighting. This is especially crucial for interior design projects or any work that will be viewed in physical spaces. When building palettes around sage green, I like to think about the mood I’m trying to create. For calm, peaceful vibes, I’ll pair it with other muted tones and plenty of white space. For something more energetic, I might add unexpected pops of coral or sunny yellow. The beauty of sage green is that it’s such a diplomatic color – it plays well with almost everything. Sage Green Across Different Design Applications Branding and Logo Design In branding work, sage green communicates reliability, growth, and environmental consciousness without hitting people over the head with it. I love using it for wellness companies, sustainable brands, and professional services that want to feel approachable. The key is pairing it with typography that reinforces your brand personality – clean sans serifs for modern feels, or elegant serifs for more traditional approaches. Interior Spaces Sage green walls have become incredibly popular, and for good reason. The color creates an instant sense of calm while still feeling current. I particularly love using darker sage greens in dining rooms or bedrooms where you want that cozy, enveloping feeling. Lighter sages work beautifully in kitchens and bathrooms where you want freshness without the sterility of pure white. Digital Design For websites and apps, sage green offers a refreshing alternative to the blues and grays that dominate digital design. It’s easy on the eyes, which makes it perfect for apps focused on wellness, meditation, or any platform where users will spend extended time. Just be mindful of accessibility – always test your sage green backgrounds with various text colors to ensure proper contrast ratios. Product Design The natural, organic feeling of sage green makes it perfect for product packaging, especially in the beauty, food, and wellness sectors. It communicates quality and naturalness without feeling overly earthy or crunchy. I’ve seen it work beautifully on everything from skincare packaging to high-end kitchen appliances. The Psychology Behind Sage Green’s Appeal Color psychology tells us that green represents growth, harmony, and balance – all things we desperately need in our modern lives. But sage green takes these positive associations and adds sophistication. It’s green without the intensity, nature without the rawness. There’s also something inherently honest about sage green. It doesn’t try too hard or demand attention the way brighter colors do. This authenticity resonates with consumers who are increasingly skeptical of brands that feel forced or overly polished. Sage green whispers where other colors shout, and sometimes that’s exactly what your message needs. Looking Forward: Sage Green’s Staying Power While I can’t predict the future, I’m confident that sage green will remain relevant for years to come. It hits all the right notes for contemporary design – it’s calming without being boring, natural without being literal, and sophisticated without being pretentious. The color also photographs beautifully, which matters more than ever in our Instagram-driven world. Whether it’s a sage green accent wall or a product shot featuring sage packaging, this color translates perfectly to social media, helping brands create that coveted “aesthetic” that drives engagement. As we continue to prioritize wellness and sustainability in design, sage green offers the perfect visual shorthand for these values. It’s a color that makes people feel good, and in a world that often doesn’t, that’s incredibly powerful. Bringing It All Together These eight sage green palettes represent just the beginning of what’s possible with this incredible color. Whether you’re drawn to the monochromatic serenity of Garden Fresh or the unexpected sophistication of Industrial Zen, there’s a sage green palette that can elevate your next project. The secret to success with sage green is trusting its natural elegance. Don’t feel like you need to overstyling or complicate things – sage green’s beauty lies in its understated sophistication. Let it be the calm, confident foundation that allows other elements of your design to shine. So go ahead and embrace the sage green revolution. Your designswill thank you for it. After all, in a world full of visual noise, sometimes the most powerful statement you can make is a quiet one. Riley Morgan Riley Morgan is a globe-trotting graphic designer with a sharp eye for color, typography, and intuitive design. They are a color lover and blend creativity with culture, drawing inspiration from cities, landscapes, and stories around the world. When they’re not designing sleek visuals for clients, they’re blogging about trends, tools, and the art of making design feel like home—wherever that may be. 8 Stunning Sunset Color PalettesThere’s something absolutely magical about watching the sun dip below the horizon, painting the sky in breathtaking hues that seem...10 Warm Color Palettes That’ll Brighten Your DayThere’s nothing quite like the embracing quality of warm colors to make a design feel inviting and alive. As someone...10 Luxurious Jewel Tone Color PalettesAs a designer who’s always searching for color combinations that exude sophistication and richness, I find myself constantly returning to... #sage #green #color #palettes #youve
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    8 Sage Green Color Palettes You’ve Got to Experience
    8 Sage Green Color Palettes You’ve Got to Experience In this article:See more ▼Post may contain affiliate links which give us commissions at no cost to you.There’s something undeniably calming about sage green that makes it one of my absolute favorite colors to work with as a designer. This muted, earthy hue has this incredible ability to ground a space while still feeling fresh and contemporary. Whether you’re working on a branding project, designing an interior space, or creating digital content, sage green offers a versatility that few colors can match. What I love most about sage green is how it bridges the gap between trendy and timeless. It’s not going anywhere anytime soon, and honestly, I don’t think it ever should. This sophisticated color has been quietly revolutionizing design palettes across every industry, and today I’m excited to share eight of my favorite sage green color combinations that will elevate your next project. 👋 Psst... Did you know you can get unlimited downloads of 59,000+ fonts and millions of other creative assets for just $16.95/mo? Learn more »The 8 Most Inspiring Sage Green Color Palettes 1. Garden Fresh #D2E5C4 #B2C69E #95B07B #79955D #5A743C Download this color palette 735×1102 Pinterest image 2160×3840 Vertical wallpaper 900×900 Square 3840×2160 4K Wallpaper This monochromatic sage palette is pure perfection for anyone wanting to create depth without complexity. I use this combination constantly in botanical-themed projects because it captures every shade of green you’d find in a thriving garden. The progression from light to dark creates natural hierarchy, making it incredibly functional for both print and digital work. 2. Misty Morning #BDC9BB #ACBAA1 #B2C1A2 #A4B1A0 #ADC3B7 Download this color palette 735×1102 Pinterest image 2160×3840 Vertical wallpaper 900×900 Square 3840×2160 4K Wallpaper When I need something soft and ethereal, this is my go-to palette. These gentle sage tones remind me of early morning fog rolling over hills. It’s perfect for wellness brands, spa environments, or any project that needs to evoke tranquility and peace. The subtle variations create interest without ever feeling overwhelming. 3. Harvest Moon #9AAB89 #647056 #D6C388 #F8C565 Download this color palette 735×1102 Pinterest image 2160×3840 Vertical wallpaper 900×900 Square 3840×2160 4K Wallpaper Get 300+ Fonts for FREEEnter your email to download our 100% free "Font Lover's Bundle". For commercial & personal use. No royalties. No fees. No attribution. 100% free to use anywhere. The combination of sage green with warm golds creates magic every single time. This palette captures that perfect autumn moment when the light hits everything just right. I love using this for brands that want to feel both grounded and optimistic – it’s earthy sophistication with a sunny disposition. 4. Moody Botanical #4D5D42 #6A894B #8DA67E #9B999A #C6B5DF Download this color palette 735×1102 Pinterest image 2160×3840 Vertical wallpaper 900×900 Square 3840×2160 4K Wallpaper For projects that need a bit more drama, this palette delivers beautifully. The deeper sage tones paired with that unexpected lavender create intrigue without losing the calming essence of green. I find this combination works wonderfully for upscale restaurants or luxury lifestyle brands that want to feel approachable yet refined. 5. Countryside Charm #A3AC9A #8A9A5B #93A395 #748B74 #827D67 Download this color palette 735×1102 Pinterest image 2160×3840 Vertical wallpaper 900×900 Square 3840×2160 4K Wallpaper This palette feels like a walk through the English countryside – all rolling hills and weathered stone walls. The mix of sage greens with those earthy undertones creates incredible depth. I use this combination for projects that need to feel established and trustworthy, like financial services or heritage brands. 6. Industrial Farmhouse Zen #CED3D2 #3F5054 #6F675E #9CAB86 #C8CAB5 Download this color palette 735×1102 Pinterest image 2160×3840 Vertical wallpaper 900×900 Square 3840×2160 4K Wallpaper The marriage of sage green with industrial grays might seem unexpected, but it creates this incredibly sophisticated modern aesthetic. This palette is perfect for tech companies or architectural firms that want to feel innovative yet grounded. The sage adds warmth to what could otherwise be cold, sterile colors. 7. Desert Sage #9AAB89 #B2AC88 #A06464 #8C909C #C9AD99 Download this color palette 735×1102 Pinterest image 2160×3840 Vertical wallpaper 900×900 Square 3840×2160 4K Wallpaper Inspired by the American Southwest, this palette combines sage with dusty terra cottas and warm beiges. There’s something so comforting about these colors together – they feel like sunset in the desert. I love using this for hospitality brands or any project that wants to evoke adventure and warmth. 8. Forest Floor #B2C69E #ACB6A6 #5B7553 #745000 #462800 Download this color palette 735×1102 Pinterest image 2160×3840 Vertical wallpaper 900×900 Square 3840×2160 4K Wallpaper This rich, earthy combination takes sage green into deeper territory with those gorgeous chocolate browns. It reminds me of walking through an old-growth forest where the light filters through layers of leaves. Perfect for organic brands, outdoor companies, or any project that wants to feel authentic and connected to nature. Why Sage Green Is Having Its Moment As someone who’s been watching color trends for years, I can tell you that sage green’s popularity isn’t just a passing fad. This color speaks to our collective desire for calm in an increasingly chaotic world. It’s the visual equivalent of taking a deep breath – immediately soothing and centering. The rise of biophilic design has also played a huge role in sage green’s dominance. As we spend more time indoors, we’re craving those connections to nature, and sage green delivers that botanical feeling without being overly literal. It’s nature-inspired design at its most sophisticated. What makes sage green particularly special is its incredible adaptability. Unlike brighter greens that can feel overwhelming or dated, sage green has this chameleon-like quality that allows it to work in virtually any context. Pair it with warm woods and it feels rustic; combine it with metallics and it becomes luxurious; add some crisp whites and suddenly it’s Scandinavian minimalism. Mastering Sage Green in Your Design Work The key to working with sage green successfully is understanding its undertones. Some sage greens lean more yellow, others more blue or gray. Recognizing these subtle differences will help you create more cohesive palettes and avoid color clashes that can make your work feel off. I always recommend testing your sage green palettes in different lighting conditions. What looks perfect on your computer screen might feel completely different in natural light or under warm artificial lighting. This is especially crucial for interior design projects or any work that will be viewed in physical spaces. When building palettes around sage green, I like to think about the mood I’m trying to create. For calm, peaceful vibes, I’ll pair it with other muted tones and plenty of white space. For something more energetic, I might add unexpected pops of coral or sunny yellow. The beauty of sage green is that it’s such a diplomatic color – it plays well with almost everything. Sage Green Across Different Design Applications Branding and Logo Design In branding work, sage green communicates reliability, growth, and environmental consciousness without hitting people over the head with it. I love using it for wellness companies, sustainable brands, and professional services that want to feel approachable. The key is pairing it with typography that reinforces your brand personality – clean sans serifs for modern feels, or elegant serifs for more traditional approaches. Interior Spaces Sage green walls have become incredibly popular, and for good reason. The color creates an instant sense of calm while still feeling current. I particularly love using darker sage greens in dining rooms or bedrooms where you want that cozy, enveloping feeling. Lighter sages work beautifully in kitchens and bathrooms where you want freshness without the sterility of pure white. Digital Design For websites and apps, sage green offers a refreshing alternative to the blues and grays that dominate digital design. It’s easy on the eyes, which makes it perfect for apps focused on wellness, meditation, or any platform where users will spend extended time. Just be mindful of accessibility – always test your sage green backgrounds with various text colors to ensure proper contrast ratios. Product Design The natural, organic feeling of sage green makes it perfect for product packaging, especially in the beauty, food, and wellness sectors. It communicates quality and naturalness without feeling overly earthy or crunchy. I’ve seen it work beautifully on everything from skincare packaging to high-end kitchen appliances. The Psychology Behind Sage Green’s Appeal Color psychology tells us that green represents growth, harmony, and balance – all things we desperately need in our modern lives. But sage green takes these positive associations and adds sophistication. It’s green without the intensity, nature without the rawness. There’s also something inherently honest about sage green. It doesn’t try too hard or demand attention the way brighter colors do. This authenticity resonates with consumers who are increasingly skeptical of brands that feel forced or overly polished. Sage green whispers where other colors shout, and sometimes that’s exactly what your message needs. Looking Forward: Sage Green’s Staying Power While I can’t predict the future, I’m confident that sage green will remain relevant for years to come. It hits all the right notes for contemporary design – it’s calming without being boring, natural without being literal, and sophisticated without being pretentious. The color also photographs beautifully, which matters more than ever in our Instagram-driven world. Whether it’s a sage green accent wall or a product shot featuring sage packaging, this color translates perfectly to social media, helping brands create that coveted “aesthetic” that drives engagement. As we continue to prioritize wellness and sustainability in design, sage green offers the perfect visual shorthand for these values. It’s a color that makes people feel good, and in a world that often doesn’t, that’s incredibly powerful. Bringing It All Together These eight sage green palettes represent just the beginning of what’s possible with this incredible color. Whether you’re drawn to the monochromatic serenity of Garden Fresh or the unexpected sophistication of Industrial Zen, there’s a sage green palette that can elevate your next project. The secret to success with sage green is trusting its natural elegance. Don’t feel like you need to overstyling or complicate things – sage green’s beauty lies in its understated sophistication. Let it be the calm, confident foundation that allows other elements of your design to shine. So go ahead and embrace the sage green revolution. Your designs (and your stress levels) will thank you for it. After all, in a world full of visual noise, sometimes the most powerful statement you can make is a quiet one. Riley Morgan Riley Morgan is a globe-trotting graphic designer with a sharp eye for color, typography, and intuitive design. They are a color lover and blend creativity with culture, drawing inspiration from cities, landscapes, and stories around the world. When they’re not designing sleek visuals for clients, they’re blogging about trends, tools, and the art of making design feel like home—wherever that may be. 8 Stunning Sunset Color PalettesThere’s something absolutely magical about watching the sun dip below the horizon, painting the sky in breathtaking hues that seem...10 Warm Color Palettes That’ll Brighten Your DayThere’s nothing quite like the embracing quality of warm colors to make a design feel inviting and alive. As someone...10 Luxurious Jewel Tone Color PalettesAs a designer who’s always searching for color combinations that exude sophistication and richness, I find myself constantly returning to...
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  • How AI is reshaping the future of healthcare and medical research

    Transcript       
    PETER LEE: “In ‘The Little Black Bag,’ a classic science fiction story, a high-tech doctor’s kit of the future is accidentally transported back to the 1950s, into the shaky hands of a washed-up, alcoholic doctor. The ultimate medical tool, it redeems the doctor wielding it, allowing him to practice gratifyingly heroic medicine. … The tale ends badly for the doctor and his treacherous assistant, but it offered a picture of how advanced technology could transform medicine—powerful when it was written nearly 75 years ago and still so today. What would be the Al equivalent of that little black bag? At this moment when new capabilities are emerging, how do we imagine them into medicine?”          
    This is The AI Revolution in Medicine, Revisited. I’m your host, Peter Lee.   
    Shortly after OpenAI’s GPT-4 was publicly released, Carey Goldberg, Dr. Zak Kohane, and I published The AI Revolution in Medicine to help educate the world of healthcare and medical research about the transformative impact this new generative AI technology could have. But because we wrote the book when GPT-4 was still a secret, we had to speculate. Now, two years later, what did we get right, and what did we get wrong?    
    In this series, we’ll talk to clinicians, patients, hospital administrators, and others to understand the reality of AI in the field and where we go from here.  The book passage I read at the top is from “Chapter 10: The Big Black Bag.” 
    In imagining AI in medicine, Carey, Zak, and I included in our book two fictional accounts. In the first, a medical resident consults GPT-4 on her personal phone as the patient in front of her crashes. Within seconds, it offers an alternate response based on recent literature. In the second account, a 90-year-old woman with several chronic conditions is living independently and receiving near-constant medical support from an AI aide.   
    In our conversations with the guests we’ve spoken to so far, we’ve caught a glimpse of these predicted futures, seeing how clinicians and patients are actually using AI today and how developers are leveraging the technology in the healthcare products and services they’re creating. In fact, that first fictional account isn’t so fictional after all, as most of the doctors in the real world actually appear to be using AI at least occasionally—and sometimes much more than occasionally—to help in their daily clinical work. And as for the second fictional account, which is more of a science fiction account, it seems we are indeed on the verge of a new way of delivering and receiving healthcare, though the future is still very much open. 
    As we continue to examine the current state of AI in healthcare and its potential to transform the field, I’m pleased to welcome Bill Gates and Sébastien Bubeck.  
    Bill may be best known as the co-founder of Microsoft, having created the company with his childhood friend Paul Allen in 1975. He’s now the founder of Breakthrough Energy, which aims to advance clean energy innovation, and TerraPower, a company developing groundbreaking nuclear energy and science technologies. He also chairs the world’s largest philanthropic organization, the Gates Foundation, and focuses on solving a variety of health challenges around the globe and here at home. 
    Sébastien is a research lead at OpenAI. He was previously a distinguished scientist, vice president of AI, and a colleague of mine here at Microsoft, where his work included spearheading the development of the family of small language models known as Phi. While at Microsoft, he also coauthored the discussion-provoking 2023 paper “Sparks of Artificial General Intelligence,” which presented the results of early experiments with GPT-4 conducted by a small team from Microsoft Research.     
    Here’s my conversation with Bill Gates and Sébastien Bubeck. 
    LEE: Bill, welcome. 
    BILL GATES: Thank you. 
    LEE: Seb … 
    SÉBASTIEN BUBECK: Yeah. Hi, hi, Peter. Nice to be here. 
    LEE: You know, one of the things that I’ve been doing just to get the conversation warmed up is to talk about origin stories, and what I mean about origin stories is, you know, what was the first contact that you had with large language models or the concept of generative AI that convinced you or made you think that something really important was happening? 
    And so, Bill, I think I’ve heard the story about, you know, the time when the OpenAI folks—Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and others—showed you something, but could we hear from you what those early encounters were like and what was going through your mind?  
    GATES: Well, I’d been visiting OpenAI soon after it was created to see things like GPT-2 and to see the little arm they had that was trying to match human manipulation and, you know, looking at their games like Dota that they were trying to get as good as human play. And honestly, I didn’t think the language model stuff they were doing, even when they got to GPT-3, would show the ability to learn, you know, in the same sense that a human reads a biology book and is able to take that knowledge and access it not only to pass a test but also to create new medicines. 
    And so my challenge to them was that if their LLM could get a five on the advanced placement biology test, then I would say, OK, it took biologic knowledge and encoded it in an accessible way and that I didn’t expect them to do that very quickly but it would be profound.  
    And it was only about six months after I challenged them to do that, that an early version of GPT-4 they brought up to a dinner at my house, and in fact, it answered most of the questions that night very well. The one it got totally wrong, we were … because it was so good, we kept thinking, Oh, we must be wrong. It turned out it was a math weaknessthat, you know, we later understood that that was an area of, weirdly, of incredible weakness of those early models. But, you know, that was when I realized, OK, the age of cheap intelligence was at its beginning. 
    LEE: Yeah. So I guess it seems like you had something similar to me in that my first encounters, I actually harbored some skepticism. Is it fair to say you were skeptical before that? 
    GATES: Well, the idea that we’ve figured out how to encode and access knowledge in this very deep sense without even understanding the nature of the encoding, … 
    LEE: Right.  
    GATES: … that is a bit weird.  
    LEE: Yeah. 
    GATES: We have an algorithm that creates the computation, but even say, OK, where is the president’s birthday stored in there? Where is this fact stored in there? The fact that even now when we’re playing around, getting a little bit more sense of it, it’s opaque to us what the semantic encoding is, it’s, kind of, amazing to me. I thought the invention of knowledge storage would be an explicit way of encoding knowledge, not an implicit statistical training. 
    LEE: Yeah, yeah. All right. So, Seb, you know, on this same topic, you know, I got—as we say at Microsoft—I got pulled into the tent. 
    BUBECK: Yes.  
    LEE: Because this was a very secret project. And then, um, I had the opportunity to select a small number of researchers in MSRto join and start investigating this thing seriously. And the first person I pulled in was you. 
    BUBECK: Yeah. 
    LEE: And so what were your first encounters? Because I actually don’t remember what happened then. 
    BUBECK: Oh, I remember it very well.My first encounter with GPT-4 was in a meeting with the two of you, actually. But my kind of first contact, the first moment where I realized that something was happening with generative AI, was before that. And I agree with Bill that I also wasn’t too impressed by GPT-3. 
    I though that it was kind of, you know, very naturally mimicking the web, sort of parroting what was written there in a nice way. Still in a way which seemed very impressive. But it wasn’t really intelligent in any way. But shortly after GPT-3, there was a model before GPT-4 that really shocked me, and this was the first image generation model, DALL-E 1. 
    So that was in 2021. And I will forever remember the press release of OpenAI where they had this prompt of an avocado chair and then you had this image of the avocado chair.And what really shocked me is that clearly the model kind of “understood” what is a chair, what is an avocado, and was able to merge those concepts. 
    So this was really, to me, the first moment where I saw some understanding in those models.  
    LEE: So this was, just to get the timing right, that was before I pulled you into the tent. 
    BUBECK: That was before. That was like a year before. 
    LEE: Right.  
    BUBECK: And now I will tell you how, you know, we went from that moment to the meeting with the two of you and GPT-4. 
    So once I saw this kind of understanding, I thought, OK, fine. It understands concept, but it’s still not able to reason. It cannot—as, you know, Bill was saying—it cannot learn from your document. It cannot reason.  
    So I set out to try to prove that. You know, this is what I was in the business of at the time, trying to prove things in mathematics. So I was trying to prove that basically autoregressive transformers could never reason. So I was trying to prove this. And after a year of work, I had something reasonable to show. And so I had the meeting with the two of you, and I had this example where I wanted to say, there is no way that an LLM is going to be able to do x. 
    And then as soon as I … I don’t know if you remember, Bill. But as soon as I said that, you said, oh, but wait a second. I had, you know, the OpenAI crew at my house recently, and they showed me a new model. Why don’t we ask this new model this question?  
    LEE: Yeah.
    BUBECK: And we did, and it solved it on the spot. And that really, honestly, just changed my life. Like, you know, I had been working for a year trying to say that this was impossible. And just right there, it was shown to be possible.  
    LEE:One of the very first things I got interested in—because I was really thinking a lot about healthcare—was healthcare and medicine. 
    And I don’t know if the two of you remember, but I ended up doing a lot of tests. I ran through, you know, step one and step two of the US Medical Licensing Exam. Did a whole bunch of other things. I wrote this big report. It was, you know, I can’t remember … a couple hundred pages.  
    And I needed to share this with someone. I didn’t … there weren’t too many people I could share it with. So I sent, I think, a copy to you, Bill. Sent a copy to you, Seb.  
    I hardly slept for about a week putting that report together. And, yeah, and I kept working on it. But I was far from alone. I think everyone who was in the tent, so to speak, in those early days was going through something pretty similar. All right. So I think … of course, a lot of what I put in the report also ended up being examples that made it into the book. 
    But the main purpose of this conversation isn’t to reminisce aboutor indulge in those reminiscences but to talk about what’s happening in healthcare and medicine. And, you know, as I said, we wrote this book. We did it very, very quickly. Seb, you helped. Bill, you know, you provided a review and some endorsements. 
    But, you know, honestly, we didn’t know what we were talking about because no one had access to this thing. And so we just made a bunch of guesses. So really, the whole thing I wanted to probe with the two of you is, now with two years of experience out in the world, what, you know, what do we think is happening today? 
    You know, is AI actually having an impact, positive or negative, on healthcare and medicine? And what do we now think is going to happen in the next two years, five years, or 10 years? And so I realize it’s a little bit too abstract to just ask it that way. So let me just try to narrow the discussion and guide us a little bit.  
    Um, the kind of administrative and clerical work, paperwork, around healthcare—and we made a lot of guesses about that—that appears to be going well, but, you know, Bill, I know we’ve discussed that sometimes that you think there ought to be a lot more going on. Do you have a viewpoint on how AI is actually finding its way into reducing paperwork? 
    GATES: Well, I’m stunned … I don’t think there should be a patient-doctor meeting where the AI is not sitting in and both transcribing, offering to help with the paperwork, and even making suggestions, although the doctor will be the one, you know, who makes the final decision about the diagnosis and whatever prescription gets done.  
    It’s so helpful. You know, when that patient goes home and their, you know, son who wants to understand what happened has some questions, that AI should be available to continue that conversation. And the way you can improve that experience and streamline things and, you know, involve the people who advise you. I don’t understand why that’s not more adopted, because there you still have the human in the loop making that final decision. 
    But even for, like, follow-up calls to make sure the patient did things, to understand if they have concerns and knowing when to escalate back to the doctor, the benefit is incredible. And, you know, that thing is ready for prime time. That paradigm is ready for prime time, in my view. 
    LEE: Yeah, there are some good products, but it seems like the number one use right now—and we kind of got this from some of the previous guests in previous episodes—is the use of AI just to respond to emails from patients.Does that make sense to you? 
    BUBECK: Yeah. So maybe I want to second what Bill was saying but maybe take a step back first. You know, two years ago, like, the concept of clinical scribes, which is one of the things that we’re talking about right now, it would have sounded, in fact, it sounded two years ago, borderline dangerous. Because everybody was worried about hallucinations. What happened if you have this AI listening in and then it transcribes, you know, something wrong? 
    Now, two years later, I think it’s mostly working. And in fact, it is not yet, you know, fully adopted. You’re right. But it is in production. It is used, you know, in many, many places. So this rate of progress is astounding because it wasn’t obvious that we would be able to overcome those obstacles of hallucination. It’s not to say that hallucinations are fully solved. In the case of the closed system, they are.  
    Now, I think more generally what’s going on in the background is that there is something that we, that certainly I, underestimated, which is this management overhead. So I think the reason why this is not adopted everywhere is really a training and teaching aspect. People need to be taught, like, those systems, how to interact with them. 
    And one example that I really like, a study that recently appeared where they tried to use ChatGPT for diagnosis and they were comparing doctors without and with ChatGPT. And the amazing thing … so this was a set of cases where the accuracy of the doctors alone was around 75%. ChatGPT alone was 90%. So that’s already kind of mind blowing. But then the kicker is that doctors with ChatGPT was 80%.  
    Intelligence alone is not enough. It’s also how it’s presented, how you interact with it. And ChatGPT, it’s an amazing tool. Obviously, I absolutely love it. But it’s not … you don’t want a doctor to have to type in, you know, prompts and use it that way. 
    It should be, as Bill was saying, kind of running continuously in the background, sending you notifications. And you have to be really careful of the rate at which those notifications are being sent. Because if they are too frequent, then the doctor will learn to ignore them. So you have to … all of those things matter, in fact, at least as much as the level of intelligence of the machine. 
    LEE: One of the things I think about, Bill, in that scenario that you described, doctors do some thinking about the patient when they write the note. So, you know, I’m always a little uncertain whether it’s actually … you know, you wouldn’t necessarily want to fully automate this, I don’t think. Or at least there needs to be some prompt to the doctor to make sure that the doctor puts some thought into what happened in the encounter with the patient. Does that make sense to you at all? 
    GATES: At this stage, you know, I’d still put the onus on the doctor to write the conclusions and the summary and not delegate that. 
    The tradeoffs you make a little bit are somewhat dependent on the situation you’re in. If you’re in Africa,
    So, yes, the doctor’s still going to have to do a lot of work, but just the quality of letting the patient and the people around them interact and ask questions and have things explained, that alone is such a quality improvement. It’s mind blowing.  
    LEE: So since you mentioned, you know, Africa—and, of course, this touches on the mission and some of the priorities of the Gates Foundation and this idea of democratization of access to expert medical care—what’s the most interesting stuff going on right now? Are there people and organizations or technologies that are impressing you or that you’re tracking? 
    GATES: Yeah. So the Gates Foundation has given out a lot of grants to people in Africa doing education, agriculture but more healthcare examples than anything. And the way these things start off, they often start out either being patient-centric in a narrow situation, like, OK, I’m a pregnant woman; talk to me. Or, I have infectious disease symptoms; talk to me. Or they’re connected to a health worker where they’re helping that worker get their job done. And we have lots of pilots out, you know, in both of those cases.  
    The dream would be eventually to have the thing the patient consults be so broad that it’s like having a doctor available who understands the local things.  
    LEE: Right.  
    GATES: We’re not there yet. But over the next two or three years, you know, particularly given the worsening financial constraints against African health systems, where the withdrawal of money has been dramatic, you know, figuring out how to take this—what I sometimes call “free intelligence”—and build a quality health system around that, we will have to be more radical in low-income countries than any rich country is ever going to be.  
    LEE: Also, there’s maybe a different regulatory environment, so some of those things maybe are easier? Because right now, I think the world hasn’t figured out how to and whether to regulate, let’s say, an AI that might give a medical diagnosis or write a prescription for a medication. 
    BUBECK: Yeah. I think one issue with this, and it’s also slowing down the deployment of AI in healthcare more generally, is a lack of proper benchmark. Because, you know, you were mentioning the USMLE, for example. That’s a great test to test human beings and their knowledge of healthcare and medicine. But it’s not a great test to give to an AI. 
    It’s not asking the right questions. So finding what are the right questions to test whether an AI system is ready to give diagnosis in a constrained setting, that’s a very, very important direction, which to my surprise, is not yet accelerating at the rate that I was hoping for. 
    LEE: OK, so that gives me an excuse to get more now into the core AI tech because something I’ve discussed with both of you is this issue of what are the right tests. And you both know the very first test I give to any new spin of an LLM is I present a patient, the results—a mythical patient—the results of my physical exam, my mythical physical exam. Maybe some results of some initial labs. And then I present or propose a differential diagnosis. And if you’re not in medicine, a differential diagnosis you can just think of as a prioritized list of the possible diagnoses that fit with all that data. And in that proposed differential, I always intentionally make two mistakes. 
    I make a textbook technical error in one of the possible elements of the differential diagnosis, and I have an error of omission. And, you know, I just want to know, does the LLM understand what I’m talking about? And all the good ones out there do now. But then I want to know, can it spot the errors? And then most importantly, is it willing to tell me I’m wrong, that I’ve made a mistake?  
    That last piece seems really hard for AI today. And so let me ask you first, Seb, because at the time of this taping, of course, there was a new spin of GPT-4o last week that became overly sycophantic. In other words, it was actually prone in that test of mine not only to not tell me I’m wrong, but it actually praised me for the creativity of my differential.What’s up with that? 
    BUBECK: Yeah, I guess it’s a testament to the fact that training those models is still more of an art than a science. So it’s a difficult job. Just to be clear with the audience, we have rolled back thatversion of GPT-4o, so now we don’t have the sycophant version out there. 
    Yeah, no, it’s a really difficult question. It has to do … as you said, it’s very technical. It has to do with the post-training and how, like, where do you nudge the model? So, you know, there is this very classical by now technique called RLHF, where you push the model in the direction of a certain reward model. So the reward model is just telling the model, you know, what behavior is good, what behavior is bad. 
    But this reward model is itself an LLM, and, you know, Bill was saying at the very beginning of the conversation that we don’t really understand how those LLMs deal with concepts like, you know, where is the capital of France located? Things like that. It is the same thing for this reward model. We don’t know why it says that it prefers one output to another, and whether this is correlated with some sycophancy is, you know, something that we discovered basically just now. That if you push too hard in optimization on this reward model, you will get a sycophant model. 
    So it’s kind of … what I’m trying to say is we became too good at what we were doing, and we ended up, in fact, in a trap of the reward model. 
    LEE: I mean, you do want … it’s a difficult balance because you do want models to follow your desires and … 
    BUBECK: It’s a very difficult, very difficult balance. 
    LEE: So this brings up then the following question for me, which is the extent to which we think we’ll need to have specially trained models for things. So let me start with you, Bill. Do you have a point of view on whether we will need to, you know, quote-unquote take AI models to med school? Have them specially trained? Like, if you were going to deploy something to give medical care in underserved parts of the world, do we need to do something special to create those models? 
    GATES: We certainly need to teach them the African languages and the unique dialects so that the multimedia interactions are very high quality. We certainly need to teach them the disease prevalence and unique disease patterns like, you know, neglected tropical diseases and malaria. So we need to gather a set of facts that somebody trying to go for a US customer base, you know, wouldn’t necessarily have that in there. 
    Those two things are actually very straightforward because the additional training time is small. I’d say for the next few years, we’ll also need to do reinforcement learning about the context of being a doctor and how important certain behaviors are. Humans learn over the course of their life to some degree that, I’m in a different context and the way I behave in terms of being willing to criticize or be nice, you know, how important is it? Who’s here? What’s my relationship to them?  
    Right now, these machines don’t have that broad social experience. And so if you know it’s going to be used for health things, a lot of reinforcement learning of the very best humans in that context would still be valuable. Eventually, the models will, having read all the literature of the world about good doctors, bad doctors, it’ll understand as soon as you say, “I want you to be a doctor diagnosing somebody.” All of the implicit reinforcement that fits that situation, you know, will be there.
    LEE: Yeah.
    GATES: And so I hope three years from now, we don’t have to do that reinforcement learning. But today, for any medical context, you would want a lot of data to reinforce tone, willingness to say things when, you know, there might be something significant at stake. 
    LEE: Yeah. So, you know, something Bill said, kind of, reminds me of another thing that I think we missed, which is, the context also … and the specialization also pertains to different, I guess, what we still call “modes,” although I don’t know if the idea of multimodal is the same as it was two years ago. But, you know, what do you make of all of the hubbub around—in fact, within Microsoft Research, this is a big deal, but I think we’re far from alone—you know, medical images and vision, video, proteins and molecules, cell, you know, cellular data and so on. 
    BUBECK: Yeah. OK. So there is a lot to say to everything … to the last, you know, couple of minutes. Maybe on the specialization aspect, you know, I think there is, hiding behind this, a really fundamental scientific question of whether eventually we have a singular AGIthat kind of knows everything and you can just put, you know, explain your own context and it will just get it and understand everything. 
    That’s one vision. I have to say, I don’t particularly believe in this vision. In fact, we humans are not like that at all. I think, hopefully, we are general intelligences, yet we have to specialize a lot. And, you know, I did myself a lot of RL, reinforcement learning, on mathematics. Like, that’s what I did, you know, spent a lot of time doing that. And I didn’t improve on other aspects. You know, in fact, I probably degraded in other aspects.So it’s … I think it’s an important example to have in mind. 
    LEE: I think I might disagree with you on that, though, because, like, doesn’t a model have to see both good science and bad science in order to be able to gain the ability to discern between the two? 
    BUBECK: Yeah, no, that absolutely. I think there is value in seeing the generality, in having a very broad base. But then you, kind of, specialize on verticals. And this is where also, you know, open-weights model, which we haven’t talked about yet, are really important because they allow you to provide this broad base to everyone. And then you can specialize on top of it. 
    LEE: So we have about three hours of stuff to talk about, but our time is actually running low.
    BUBECK: Yes, yes, yes.  
    LEE: So I think I want … there’s a more provocative question. It’s almost a silly question, but I need to ask it of the two of you, which is, is there a future, you know, where AI replaces doctors or replaces, you know, medical specialties that we have today? So what does the world look like, say, five years from now? 
    GATES: Well, it’s important to distinguish healthcare discovery activity from healthcare delivery activity. We focused mostly on delivery. I think it’s very much within the realm of possibility that the AI is not only accelerating healthcare discovery but substituting for a lot of the roles of, you know, I’m an organic chemist, or I run various types of assays. I can see those, which are, you know, testable-output-type jobs but with still very high value, I can see, you know, some replacement in those areas before the doctor.  
    The doctor, still understanding the human condition and long-term dialogues, you know, they’ve had a lifetime of reinforcement of that, particularly when you get into areas like mental health. So I wouldn’t say in five years, either people will choose to adopt it, but it will be profound that there’ll be this nearly free intelligence that can do follow-up, that can help you, you know, make sure you went through different possibilities. 
    And so I’d say, yes, we’ll have doctors, but I’d say healthcare will be massively transformed in its quality and in efficiency by AI in that time period. 
    LEE: Is there a comparison, useful comparison, say, between doctors and, say, programmers, computer programmers, or doctors and, I don’t know, lawyers? 
    GATES: Programming is another one that has, kind of, a mathematical correctness to it, you know, and so the objective function that you’re trying to reinforce to, as soon as you can understand the state machines, you can have something that’s “checkable”; that’s correct. So I think programming, you know, which is weird to say, that the machine will beat us at most programming tasks before we let it take over roles that have deep empathy, you know, physical presence and social understanding in them. 
    LEE: Yeah. By the way, you know, I fully expect in five years that AI will produce mathematical proofs that are checkable for validity, easily checkable, because they’ll be written in a proof-checking language like Lean or something but will be so complex that no human mathematician can understand them. I expect that to happen.  
    I can imagine in some fields, like cellular biology, we could have the same situation in the future because the molecular pathways, the chemistry, biochemistry of human cells or living cells is as complex as any mathematics, and so it seems possible that we may be in a state where in wet lab, we see, Oh yeah, this actually works, but no one can understand why. 
    BUBECK: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think I really agree with Bill’s distinction of the discovery and the delivery, and indeed, the discovery’s when you can check things, and at the end, there is an artifact that you can verify. You know, you can run the protocol in the wet lab and seeproduced what you wanted. So I absolutely agree with that.  
    And in fact, you know, we don’t have to talk five years from now. I don’t know if you know, but just recently, there was a paper that was published on a scientific discovery using o3- mini. So this is really amazing. And, you know, just very quickly, just so people know, it was about this statistical physics model, the frustrated Potts model, which has to do with coloring, and basically, the case of three colors, like, more than two colors was open for a long time, and o3 was able to reduce the case of three colors to two colors.  
    LEE: Yeah. 
    BUBECK: Which is just, like, astounding. And this is not … this is now. This is happening right now. So this is something that I personally didn’t expect it would happen so quickly, and it’s due to those reasoning models.  
    Now, on the delivery side, I would add something more to it for the reason why doctors and, in fact, lawyers and coders will remain for a long time, and it’s because we still don’t understand how those models generalize. Like, at the end of the day, we are not able to tell you when they are confronted with a really new, novel situation, whether they will work or not. 
    Nobody is able to give you that guarantee. And I think until we understand this generalization better, we’re not going to be willing to just let the system in the wild without human supervision. 
    LEE: But don’t human doctors, human specialists … so, for example, a cardiologist sees a patient in a certain way that a nephrologist … 
    BUBECK: Yeah.
    LEE: … or an endocrinologist might not.
    BUBECK: That’s right. But another cardiologist will understand and, kind of, expect a certain level of generalization from their peer. And this, we just don’t have it with AI models. Now, of course, you’re exactly right. That generalization is also hard for humans. Like, if you have a human trained for one task and you put them into another task, then you don’t … you often don’t know.
    LEE: OK. You know, the podcast is focused on what’s happened over the last two years. But now, I’d like one provocative prediction about what you think the world of AI and medicine is going to be at some point in the future. You pick your timeframe. I don’t care if it’s two years or 20 years from now, but, you know, what do you think will be different about AI in medicine in that future than today? 
    BUBECK: Yeah, I think the deployment is going to accelerate soon. Like, we’re really not missing very much. There is this enormous capability overhang. Like, even if progress completely stopped, with current systems, we can do a lot more than what we’re doing right now. So I think this will … this has to be realized, you know, sooner rather than later. 
    And I think it’s probably dependent on these benchmarks and proper evaluation and tying this with regulation. So these are things that take time in human society and for good reason. But now we already are at two years; you know, give it another two years and it should be really …  
    LEE: Will AI prescribe your medicines? Write your prescriptions? 
    BUBECK: I think yes. I think yes. 
    LEE: OK. Bill? 
    GATES: Well, I think the next two years, we’ll have massive pilots, and so the amount of use of the AI, still in a copilot-type mode, you know, we should get millions of patient visits, you know, both in general medicine and in the mental health side, as well. And I think that’s going to build up both the data and the confidence to give the AI some additional autonomy. You know, are you going to let it talk to you at night when you’re panicked about your mental health with some ability to escalate?
    And, you know, I’ve gone so far as to tell politicians with national health systems that if they deploy AI appropriately, that the quality of care, the overload of the doctors, the improvement in the economics will be enough that their voters will be stunned because they just don’t expect this, and, you know, they could be reelectedjust on this one thing of fixing what is a very overloaded and economically challenged health system in these rich countries. 
    You know, my personal role is going to be to make sure that in the poorer countries, there isn’t some lag; in fact, in many cases, that we’ll be more aggressive because, you know, we’re comparing to having no access to doctors at all. And, you know, so I think whether it’s India or Africa, there’ll be lessons that are globally valuable because we need medical intelligence. And, you know, thank god AI is going to provide a lot of that. 
    LEE: Well, on that optimistic note, I think that’s a good way to end. Bill, Seb, really appreciate all of this.  
    I think the most fundamental prediction we made in the book is that AI would actually find its way into the practice of medicine, and I think that that at least has come true, maybe in different ways than we expected, but it’s come true, and I think it’ll only accelerate from here. So thanks again, both of you.  
    GATES: Yeah. Thanks, you guys. 
    BUBECK: Thank you, Peter. Thanks, Bill. 
    LEE: I just always feel such a sense of privilege to have a chance to interact and actually work with people like Bill and Sébastien.   
    With Bill, I’m always amazed at how practically minded he is. He’s really thinking about the nuts and bolts of what AI might be able to do for people, and his thoughts about underserved parts of the world, the idea that we might actually be able to empower people with access to expert medical knowledge, I think is both inspiring and amazing.  
    And then, Seb, Sébastien Bubeck, he’s just absolutely a brilliant mind. He has a really firm grip on the deep mathematics of artificial intelligence and brings that to bear in his research and development work. And where that mathematics takes him isn’t just into the nuts and bolts of algorithms but into philosophical questions about the nature of intelligence.  
    One of the things that Sébastien brought up was the state of evaluation of AI systems. And indeed, he was fairly critical in our conversation. But of course, the world of AI research and development is just moving so fast, and indeed, since we recorded our conversation, OpenAI, in fact, released a new evaluation metric that is directly relevant to medical applications, and that is something called HealthBench. And Microsoft Research also released a new evaluation approach or process called ADeLe.  
    HealthBench and ADeLe are examples of new approaches to evaluating AI models that are less about testing their knowledge and ability to pass multiple-choice exams and instead are evaluation approaches designed to assess how well AI models are able to complete tasks that actually arise every day in typical healthcare or biomedical research settings. These are examples of really important good work that speak to how well AI models work in the real world of healthcare and biomedical research and how well they can collaborate with human beings in those settings. 
    You know, I asked Bill and Seb to make some predictions about the future. You know, my own answer, I expect that we’re going to be able to use AI to change how we diagnose patients, change how we decide treatment options.  
    If you’re a doctor or a nurse and you encounter a patient, you’ll ask questions, do a physical exam, you know, call out for labs just like you do today, but then you’ll be able to engage with AI based on all of that data and just ask, you know, based on all the other people who have gone through the same experience, who have similar data, how were they diagnosed? How were they treated? What were their outcomes? And what does that mean for the patient I have right now? Some people call it the “patients like me” paradigm. And I think that’s going to become real because of AI within our lifetimes. That idea of really grounding the delivery in healthcare and medical practice through data and intelligence, I actually now don’t see any barriers to that future becoming real.  
    I’d like to extend another big thank you to Bill and Sébastien for their time. And to our listeners, as always, it’s a pleasure to have you along for the ride. I hope you’ll join us for our remaining conversations, as well as a second coauthor roundtable with Carey and Zak.  
    Until next time.  
    #how #reshaping #future #healthcare #medical
    How AI is reshaping the future of healthcare and medical research
    Transcript        PETER LEE: “In ‘The Little Black Bag,’ a classic science fiction story, a high-tech doctor’s kit of the future is accidentally transported back to the 1950s, into the shaky hands of a washed-up, alcoholic doctor. The ultimate medical tool, it redeems the doctor wielding it, allowing him to practice gratifyingly heroic medicine. … The tale ends badly for the doctor and his treacherous assistant, but it offered a picture of how advanced technology could transform medicine—powerful when it was written nearly 75 years ago and still so today. What would be the Al equivalent of that little black bag? At this moment when new capabilities are emerging, how do we imagine them into medicine?”           This is The AI Revolution in Medicine, Revisited. I’m your host, Peter Lee.    Shortly after OpenAI’s GPT-4 was publicly released, Carey Goldberg, Dr. Zak Kohane, and I published The AI Revolution in Medicine to help educate the world of healthcare and medical research about the transformative impact this new generative AI technology could have. But because we wrote the book when GPT-4 was still a secret, we had to speculate. Now, two years later, what did we get right, and what did we get wrong?     In this series, we’ll talk to clinicians, patients, hospital administrators, and others to understand the reality of AI in the field and where we go from here.  The book passage I read at the top is from “Chapter 10: The Big Black Bag.”  In imagining AI in medicine, Carey, Zak, and I included in our book two fictional accounts. In the first, a medical resident consults GPT-4 on her personal phone as the patient in front of her crashes. Within seconds, it offers an alternate response based on recent literature. In the second account, a 90-year-old woman with several chronic conditions is living independently and receiving near-constant medical support from an AI aide.    In our conversations with the guests we’ve spoken to so far, we’ve caught a glimpse of these predicted futures, seeing how clinicians and patients are actually using AI today and how developers are leveraging the technology in the healthcare products and services they’re creating. In fact, that first fictional account isn’t so fictional after all, as most of the doctors in the real world actually appear to be using AI at least occasionally—and sometimes much more than occasionally—to help in their daily clinical work. And as for the second fictional account, which is more of a science fiction account, it seems we are indeed on the verge of a new way of delivering and receiving healthcare, though the future is still very much open.  As we continue to examine the current state of AI in healthcare and its potential to transform the field, I’m pleased to welcome Bill Gates and Sébastien Bubeck.   Bill may be best known as the co-founder of Microsoft, having created the company with his childhood friend Paul Allen in 1975. He’s now the founder of Breakthrough Energy, which aims to advance clean energy innovation, and TerraPower, a company developing groundbreaking nuclear energy and science technologies. He also chairs the world’s largest philanthropic organization, the Gates Foundation, and focuses on solving a variety of health challenges around the globe and here at home.  Sébastien is a research lead at OpenAI. He was previously a distinguished scientist, vice president of AI, and a colleague of mine here at Microsoft, where his work included spearheading the development of the family of small language models known as Phi. While at Microsoft, he also coauthored the discussion-provoking 2023 paper “Sparks of Artificial General Intelligence,” which presented the results of early experiments with GPT-4 conducted by a small team from Microsoft Research.      Here’s my conversation with Bill Gates and Sébastien Bubeck.  LEE: Bill, welcome.  BILL GATES: Thank you.  LEE: Seb …  SÉBASTIEN BUBECK: Yeah. Hi, hi, Peter. Nice to be here.  LEE: You know, one of the things that I’ve been doing just to get the conversation warmed up is to talk about origin stories, and what I mean about origin stories is, you know, what was the first contact that you had with large language models or the concept of generative AI that convinced you or made you think that something really important was happening?  And so, Bill, I think I’ve heard the story about, you know, the time when the OpenAI folks—Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and others—showed you something, but could we hear from you what those early encounters were like and what was going through your mind?   GATES: Well, I’d been visiting OpenAI soon after it was created to see things like GPT-2 and to see the little arm they had that was trying to match human manipulation and, you know, looking at their games like Dota that they were trying to get as good as human play. And honestly, I didn’t think the language model stuff they were doing, even when they got to GPT-3, would show the ability to learn, you know, in the same sense that a human reads a biology book and is able to take that knowledge and access it not only to pass a test but also to create new medicines.  And so my challenge to them was that if their LLM could get a five on the advanced placement biology test, then I would say, OK, it took biologic knowledge and encoded it in an accessible way and that I didn’t expect them to do that very quickly but it would be profound.   And it was only about six months after I challenged them to do that, that an early version of GPT-4 they brought up to a dinner at my house, and in fact, it answered most of the questions that night very well. The one it got totally wrong, we were … because it was so good, we kept thinking, Oh, we must be wrong. It turned out it was a math weaknessthat, you know, we later understood that that was an area of, weirdly, of incredible weakness of those early models. But, you know, that was when I realized, OK, the age of cheap intelligence was at its beginning.  LEE: Yeah. So I guess it seems like you had something similar to me in that my first encounters, I actually harbored some skepticism. Is it fair to say you were skeptical before that?  GATES: Well, the idea that we’ve figured out how to encode and access knowledge in this very deep sense without even understanding the nature of the encoding, …  LEE: Right.   GATES: … that is a bit weird.   LEE: Yeah.  GATES: We have an algorithm that creates the computation, but even say, OK, where is the president’s birthday stored in there? Where is this fact stored in there? The fact that even now when we’re playing around, getting a little bit more sense of it, it’s opaque to us what the semantic encoding is, it’s, kind of, amazing to me. I thought the invention of knowledge storage would be an explicit way of encoding knowledge, not an implicit statistical training.  LEE: Yeah, yeah. All right. So, Seb, you know, on this same topic, you know, I got—as we say at Microsoft—I got pulled into the tent.  BUBECK: Yes.   LEE: Because this was a very secret project. And then, um, I had the opportunity to select a small number of researchers in MSRto join and start investigating this thing seriously. And the first person I pulled in was you.  BUBECK: Yeah.  LEE: And so what were your first encounters? Because I actually don’t remember what happened then.  BUBECK: Oh, I remember it very well.My first encounter with GPT-4 was in a meeting with the two of you, actually. But my kind of first contact, the first moment where I realized that something was happening with generative AI, was before that. And I agree with Bill that I also wasn’t too impressed by GPT-3.  I though that it was kind of, you know, very naturally mimicking the web, sort of parroting what was written there in a nice way. Still in a way which seemed very impressive. But it wasn’t really intelligent in any way. But shortly after GPT-3, there was a model before GPT-4 that really shocked me, and this was the first image generation model, DALL-E 1.  So that was in 2021. And I will forever remember the press release of OpenAI where they had this prompt of an avocado chair and then you had this image of the avocado chair.And what really shocked me is that clearly the model kind of “understood” what is a chair, what is an avocado, and was able to merge those concepts.  So this was really, to me, the first moment where I saw some understanding in those models.   LEE: So this was, just to get the timing right, that was before I pulled you into the tent.  BUBECK: That was before. That was like a year before.  LEE: Right.   BUBECK: And now I will tell you how, you know, we went from that moment to the meeting with the two of you and GPT-4.  So once I saw this kind of understanding, I thought, OK, fine. It understands concept, but it’s still not able to reason. It cannot—as, you know, Bill was saying—it cannot learn from your document. It cannot reason.   So I set out to try to prove that. You know, this is what I was in the business of at the time, trying to prove things in mathematics. So I was trying to prove that basically autoregressive transformers could never reason. So I was trying to prove this. And after a year of work, I had something reasonable to show. And so I had the meeting with the two of you, and I had this example where I wanted to say, there is no way that an LLM is going to be able to do x.  And then as soon as I … I don’t know if you remember, Bill. But as soon as I said that, you said, oh, but wait a second. I had, you know, the OpenAI crew at my house recently, and they showed me a new model. Why don’t we ask this new model this question?   LEE: Yeah. BUBECK: And we did, and it solved it on the spot. And that really, honestly, just changed my life. Like, you know, I had been working for a year trying to say that this was impossible. And just right there, it was shown to be possible.   LEE:One of the very first things I got interested in—because I was really thinking a lot about healthcare—was healthcare and medicine.  And I don’t know if the two of you remember, but I ended up doing a lot of tests. I ran through, you know, step one and step two of the US Medical Licensing Exam. Did a whole bunch of other things. I wrote this big report. It was, you know, I can’t remember … a couple hundred pages.   And I needed to share this with someone. I didn’t … there weren’t too many people I could share it with. So I sent, I think, a copy to you, Bill. Sent a copy to you, Seb.   I hardly slept for about a week putting that report together. And, yeah, and I kept working on it. But I was far from alone. I think everyone who was in the tent, so to speak, in those early days was going through something pretty similar. All right. So I think … of course, a lot of what I put in the report also ended up being examples that made it into the book.  But the main purpose of this conversation isn’t to reminisce aboutor indulge in those reminiscences but to talk about what’s happening in healthcare and medicine. And, you know, as I said, we wrote this book. We did it very, very quickly. Seb, you helped. Bill, you know, you provided a review and some endorsements.  But, you know, honestly, we didn’t know what we were talking about because no one had access to this thing. And so we just made a bunch of guesses. So really, the whole thing I wanted to probe with the two of you is, now with two years of experience out in the world, what, you know, what do we think is happening today?  You know, is AI actually having an impact, positive or negative, on healthcare and medicine? And what do we now think is going to happen in the next two years, five years, or 10 years? And so I realize it’s a little bit too abstract to just ask it that way. So let me just try to narrow the discussion and guide us a little bit.   Um, the kind of administrative and clerical work, paperwork, around healthcare—and we made a lot of guesses about that—that appears to be going well, but, you know, Bill, I know we’ve discussed that sometimes that you think there ought to be a lot more going on. Do you have a viewpoint on how AI is actually finding its way into reducing paperwork?  GATES: Well, I’m stunned … I don’t think there should be a patient-doctor meeting where the AI is not sitting in and both transcribing, offering to help with the paperwork, and even making suggestions, although the doctor will be the one, you know, who makes the final decision about the diagnosis and whatever prescription gets done.   It’s so helpful. You know, when that patient goes home and their, you know, son who wants to understand what happened has some questions, that AI should be available to continue that conversation. And the way you can improve that experience and streamline things and, you know, involve the people who advise you. I don’t understand why that’s not more adopted, because there you still have the human in the loop making that final decision.  But even for, like, follow-up calls to make sure the patient did things, to understand if they have concerns and knowing when to escalate back to the doctor, the benefit is incredible. And, you know, that thing is ready for prime time. That paradigm is ready for prime time, in my view.  LEE: Yeah, there are some good products, but it seems like the number one use right now—and we kind of got this from some of the previous guests in previous episodes—is the use of AI just to respond to emails from patients.Does that make sense to you?  BUBECK: Yeah. So maybe I want to second what Bill was saying but maybe take a step back first. You know, two years ago, like, the concept of clinical scribes, which is one of the things that we’re talking about right now, it would have sounded, in fact, it sounded two years ago, borderline dangerous. Because everybody was worried about hallucinations. What happened if you have this AI listening in and then it transcribes, you know, something wrong?  Now, two years later, I think it’s mostly working. And in fact, it is not yet, you know, fully adopted. You’re right. But it is in production. It is used, you know, in many, many places. So this rate of progress is astounding because it wasn’t obvious that we would be able to overcome those obstacles of hallucination. It’s not to say that hallucinations are fully solved. In the case of the closed system, they are.   Now, I think more generally what’s going on in the background is that there is something that we, that certainly I, underestimated, which is this management overhead. So I think the reason why this is not adopted everywhere is really a training and teaching aspect. People need to be taught, like, those systems, how to interact with them.  And one example that I really like, a study that recently appeared where they tried to use ChatGPT for diagnosis and they were comparing doctors without and with ChatGPT. And the amazing thing … so this was a set of cases where the accuracy of the doctors alone was around 75%. ChatGPT alone was 90%. So that’s already kind of mind blowing. But then the kicker is that doctors with ChatGPT was 80%.   Intelligence alone is not enough. It’s also how it’s presented, how you interact with it. And ChatGPT, it’s an amazing tool. Obviously, I absolutely love it. But it’s not … you don’t want a doctor to have to type in, you know, prompts and use it that way.  It should be, as Bill was saying, kind of running continuously in the background, sending you notifications. And you have to be really careful of the rate at which those notifications are being sent. Because if they are too frequent, then the doctor will learn to ignore them. So you have to … all of those things matter, in fact, at least as much as the level of intelligence of the machine.  LEE: One of the things I think about, Bill, in that scenario that you described, doctors do some thinking about the patient when they write the note. So, you know, I’m always a little uncertain whether it’s actually … you know, you wouldn’t necessarily want to fully automate this, I don’t think. Or at least there needs to be some prompt to the doctor to make sure that the doctor puts some thought into what happened in the encounter with the patient. Does that make sense to you at all?  GATES: At this stage, you know, I’d still put the onus on the doctor to write the conclusions and the summary and not delegate that.  The tradeoffs you make a little bit are somewhat dependent on the situation you’re in. If you’re in Africa, So, yes, the doctor’s still going to have to do a lot of work, but just the quality of letting the patient and the people around them interact and ask questions and have things explained, that alone is such a quality improvement. It’s mind blowing.   LEE: So since you mentioned, you know, Africa—and, of course, this touches on the mission and some of the priorities of the Gates Foundation and this idea of democratization of access to expert medical care—what’s the most interesting stuff going on right now? Are there people and organizations or technologies that are impressing you or that you’re tracking?  GATES: Yeah. So the Gates Foundation has given out a lot of grants to people in Africa doing education, agriculture but more healthcare examples than anything. And the way these things start off, they often start out either being patient-centric in a narrow situation, like, OK, I’m a pregnant woman; talk to me. Or, I have infectious disease symptoms; talk to me. Or they’re connected to a health worker where they’re helping that worker get their job done. And we have lots of pilots out, you know, in both of those cases.   The dream would be eventually to have the thing the patient consults be so broad that it’s like having a doctor available who understands the local things.   LEE: Right.   GATES: We’re not there yet. But over the next two or three years, you know, particularly given the worsening financial constraints against African health systems, where the withdrawal of money has been dramatic, you know, figuring out how to take this—what I sometimes call “free intelligence”—and build a quality health system around that, we will have to be more radical in low-income countries than any rich country is ever going to be.   LEE: Also, there’s maybe a different regulatory environment, so some of those things maybe are easier? Because right now, I think the world hasn’t figured out how to and whether to regulate, let’s say, an AI that might give a medical diagnosis or write a prescription for a medication.  BUBECK: Yeah. I think one issue with this, and it’s also slowing down the deployment of AI in healthcare more generally, is a lack of proper benchmark. Because, you know, you were mentioning the USMLE, for example. That’s a great test to test human beings and their knowledge of healthcare and medicine. But it’s not a great test to give to an AI.  It’s not asking the right questions. So finding what are the right questions to test whether an AI system is ready to give diagnosis in a constrained setting, that’s a very, very important direction, which to my surprise, is not yet accelerating at the rate that I was hoping for.  LEE: OK, so that gives me an excuse to get more now into the core AI tech because something I’ve discussed with both of you is this issue of what are the right tests. And you both know the very first test I give to any new spin of an LLM is I present a patient, the results—a mythical patient—the results of my physical exam, my mythical physical exam. Maybe some results of some initial labs. And then I present or propose a differential diagnosis. And if you’re not in medicine, a differential diagnosis you can just think of as a prioritized list of the possible diagnoses that fit with all that data. And in that proposed differential, I always intentionally make two mistakes.  I make a textbook technical error in one of the possible elements of the differential diagnosis, and I have an error of omission. And, you know, I just want to know, does the LLM understand what I’m talking about? And all the good ones out there do now. But then I want to know, can it spot the errors? And then most importantly, is it willing to tell me I’m wrong, that I’ve made a mistake?   That last piece seems really hard for AI today. And so let me ask you first, Seb, because at the time of this taping, of course, there was a new spin of GPT-4o last week that became overly sycophantic. In other words, it was actually prone in that test of mine not only to not tell me I’m wrong, but it actually praised me for the creativity of my differential.What’s up with that?  BUBECK: Yeah, I guess it’s a testament to the fact that training those models is still more of an art than a science. So it’s a difficult job. Just to be clear with the audience, we have rolled back thatversion of GPT-4o, so now we don’t have the sycophant version out there.  Yeah, no, it’s a really difficult question. It has to do … as you said, it’s very technical. It has to do with the post-training and how, like, where do you nudge the model? So, you know, there is this very classical by now technique called RLHF, where you push the model in the direction of a certain reward model. So the reward model is just telling the model, you know, what behavior is good, what behavior is bad.  But this reward model is itself an LLM, and, you know, Bill was saying at the very beginning of the conversation that we don’t really understand how those LLMs deal with concepts like, you know, where is the capital of France located? Things like that. It is the same thing for this reward model. We don’t know why it says that it prefers one output to another, and whether this is correlated with some sycophancy is, you know, something that we discovered basically just now. That if you push too hard in optimization on this reward model, you will get a sycophant model.  So it’s kind of … what I’m trying to say is we became too good at what we were doing, and we ended up, in fact, in a trap of the reward model.  LEE: I mean, you do want … it’s a difficult balance because you do want models to follow your desires and …  BUBECK: It’s a very difficult, very difficult balance.  LEE: So this brings up then the following question for me, which is the extent to which we think we’ll need to have specially trained models for things. So let me start with you, Bill. Do you have a point of view on whether we will need to, you know, quote-unquote take AI models to med school? Have them specially trained? Like, if you were going to deploy something to give medical care in underserved parts of the world, do we need to do something special to create those models?  GATES: We certainly need to teach them the African languages and the unique dialects so that the multimedia interactions are very high quality. We certainly need to teach them the disease prevalence and unique disease patterns like, you know, neglected tropical diseases and malaria. So we need to gather a set of facts that somebody trying to go for a US customer base, you know, wouldn’t necessarily have that in there.  Those two things are actually very straightforward because the additional training time is small. I’d say for the next few years, we’ll also need to do reinforcement learning about the context of being a doctor and how important certain behaviors are. Humans learn over the course of their life to some degree that, I’m in a different context and the way I behave in terms of being willing to criticize or be nice, you know, how important is it? Who’s here? What’s my relationship to them?   Right now, these machines don’t have that broad social experience. And so if you know it’s going to be used for health things, a lot of reinforcement learning of the very best humans in that context would still be valuable. Eventually, the models will, having read all the literature of the world about good doctors, bad doctors, it’ll understand as soon as you say, “I want you to be a doctor diagnosing somebody.” All of the implicit reinforcement that fits that situation, you know, will be there. LEE: Yeah. GATES: And so I hope three years from now, we don’t have to do that reinforcement learning. But today, for any medical context, you would want a lot of data to reinforce tone, willingness to say things when, you know, there might be something significant at stake.  LEE: Yeah. So, you know, something Bill said, kind of, reminds me of another thing that I think we missed, which is, the context also … and the specialization also pertains to different, I guess, what we still call “modes,” although I don’t know if the idea of multimodal is the same as it was two years ago. But, you know, what do you make of all of the hubbub around—in fact, within Microsoft Research, this is a big deal, but I think we’re far from alone—you know, medical images and vision, video, proteins and molecules, cell, you know, cellular data and so on.  BUBECK: Yeah. OK. So there is a lot to say to everything … to the last, you know, couple of minutes. Maybe on the specialization aspect, you know, I think there is, hiding behind this, a really fundamental scientific question of whether eventually we have a singular AGIthat kind of knows everything and you can just put, you know, explain your own context and it will just get it and understand everything.  That’s one vision. I have to say, I don’t particularly believe in this vision. In fact, we humans are not like that at all. I think, hopefully, we are general intelligences, yet we have to specialize a lot. And, you know, I did myself a lot of RL, reinforcement learning, on mathematics. Like, that’s what I did, you know, spent a lot of time doing that. And I didn’t improve on other aspects. You know, in fact, I probably degraded in other aspects.So it’s … I think it’s an important example to have in mind.  LEE: I think I might disagree with you on that, though, because, like, doesn’t a model have to see both good science and bad science in order to be able to gain the ability to discern between the two?  BUBECK: Yeah, no, that absolutely. I think there is value in seeing the generality, in having a very broad base. But then you, kind of, specialize on verticals. And this is where also, you know, open-weights model, which we haven’t talked about yet, are really important because they allow you to provide this broad base to everyone. And then you can specialize on top of it.  LEE: So we have about three hours of stuff to talk about, but our time is actually running low. BUBECK: Yes, yes, yes.   LEE: So I think I want … there’s a more provocative question. It’s almost a silly question, but I need to ask it of the two of you, which is, is there a future, you know, where AI replaces doctors or replaces, you know, medical specialties that we have today? So what does the world look like, say, five years from now?  GATES: Well, it’s important to distinguish healthcare discovery activity from healthcare delivery activity. We focused mostly on delivery. I think it’s very much within the realm of possibility that the AI is not only accelerating healthcare discovery but substituting for a lot of the roles of, you know, I’m an organic chemist, or I run various types of assays. I can see those, which are, you know, testable-output-type jobs but with still very high value, I can see, you know, some replacement in those areas before the doctor.   The doctor, still understanding the human condition and long-term dialogues, you know, they’ve had a lifetime of reinforcement of that, particularly when you get into areas like mental health. So I wouldn’t say in five years, either people will choose to adopt it, but it will be profound that there’ll be this nearly free intelligence that can do follow-up, that can help you, you know, make sure you went through different possibilities.  And so I’d say, yes, we’ll have doctors, but I’d say healthcare will be massively transformed in its quality and in efficiency by AI in that time period.  LEE: Is there a comparison, useful comparison, say, between doctors and, say, programmers, computer programmers, or doctors and, I don’t know, lawyers?  GATES: Programming is another one that has, kind of, a mathematical correctness to it, you know, and so the objective function that you’re trying to reinforce to, as soon as you can understand the state machines, you can have something that’s “checkable”; that’s correct. So I think programming, you know, which is weird to say, that the machine will beat us at most programming tasks before we let it take over roles that have deep empathy, you know, physical presence and social understanding in them.  LEE: Yeah. By the way, you know, I fully expect in five years that AI will produce mathematical proofs that are checkable for validity, easily checkable, because they’ll be written in a proof-checking language like Lean or something but will be so complex that no human mathematician can understand them. I expect that to happen.   I can imagine in some fields, like cellular biology, we could have the same situation in the future because the molecular pathways, the chemistry, biochemistry of human cells or living cells is as complex as any mathematics, and so it seems possible that we may be in a state where in wet lab, we see, Oh yeah, this actually works, but no one can understand why.  BUBECK: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think I really agree with Bill’s distinction of the discovery and the delivery, and indeed, the discovery’s when you can check things, and at the end, there is an artifact that you can verify. You know, you can run the protocol in the wet lab and seeproduced what you wanted. So I absolutely agree with that.   And in fact, you know, we don’t have to talk five years from now. I don’t know if you know, but just recently, there was a paper that was published on a scientific discovery using o3- mini. So this is really amazing. And, you know, just very quickly, just so people know, it was about this statistical physics model, the frustrated Potts model, which has to do with coloring, and basically, the case of three colors, like, more than two colors was open for a long time, and o3 was able to reduce the case of three colors to two colors.   LEE: Yeah.  BUBECK: Which is just, like, astounding. And this is not … this is now. This is happening right now. So this is something that I personally didn’t expect it would happen so quickly, and it’s due to those reasoning models.   Now, on the delivery side, I would add something more to it for the reason why doctors and, in fact, lawyers and coders will remain for a long time, and it’s because we still don’t understand how those models generalize. Like, at the end of the day, we are not able to tell you when they are confronted with a really new, novel situation, whether they will work or not.  Nobody is able to give you that guarantee. And I think until we understand this generalization better, we’re not going to be willing to just let the system in the wild without human supervision.  LEE: But don’t human doctors, human specialists … so, for example, a cardiologist sees a patient in a certain way that a nephrologist …  BUBECK: Yeah. LEE: … or an endocrinologist might not. BUBECK: That’s right. But another cardiologist will understand and, kind of, expect a certain level of generalization from their peer. And this, we just don’t have it with AI models. Now, of course, you’re exactly right. That generalization is also hard for humans. Like, if you have a human trained for one task and you put them into another task, then you don’t … you often don’t know. LEE: OK. You know, the podcast is focused on what’s happened over the last two years. But now, I’d like one provocative prediction about what you think the world of AI and medicine is going to be at some point in the future. You pick your timeframe. I don’t care if it’s two years or 20 years from now, but, you know, what do you think will be different about AI in medicine in that future than today?  BUBECK: Yeah, I think the deployment is going to accelerate soon. Like, we’re really not missing very much. There is this enormous capability overhang. Like, even if progress completely stopped, with current systems, we can do a lot more than what we’re doing right now. So I think this will … this has to be realized, you know, sooner rather than later.  And I think it’s probably dependent on these benchmarks and proper evaluation and tying this with regulation. So these are things that take time in human society and for good reason. But now we already are at two years; you know, give it another two years and it should be really …   LEE: Will AI prescribe your medicines? Write your prescriptions?  BUBECK: I think yes. I think yes.  LEE: OK. Bill?  GATES: Well, I think the next two years, we’ll have massive pilots, and so the amount of use of the AI, still in a copilot-type mode, you know, we should get millions of patient visits, you know, both in general medicine and in the mental health side, as well. And I think that’s going to build up both the data and the confidence to give the AI some additional autonomy. You know, are you going to let it talk to you at night when you’re panicked about your mental health with some ability to escalate? And, you know, I’ve gone so far as to tell politicians with national health systems that if they deploy AI appropriately, that the quality of care, the overload of the doctors, the improvement in the economics will be enough that their voters will be stunned because they just don’t expect this, and, you know, they could be reelectedjust on this one thing of fixing what is a very overloaded and economically challenged health system in these rich countries.  You know, my personal role is going to be to make sure that in the poorer countries, there isn’t some lag; in fact, in many cases, that we’ll be more aggressive because, you know, we’re comparing to having no access to doctors at all. And, you know, so I think whether it’s India or Africa, there’ll be lessons that are globally valuable because we need medical intelligence. And, you know, thank god AI is going to provide a lot of that.  LEE: Well, on that optimistic note, I think that’s a good way to end. Bill, Seb, really appreciate all of this.   I think the most fundamental prediction we made in the book is that AI would actually find its way into the practice of medicine, and I think that that at least has come true, maybe in different ways than we expected, but it’s come true, and I think it’ll only accelerate from here. So thanks again, both of you.   GATES: Yeah. Thanks, you guys.  BUBECK: Thank you, Peter. Thanks, Bill.  LEE: I just always feel such a sense of privilege to have a chance to interact and actually work with people like Bill and Sébastien.    With Bill, I’m always amazed at how practically minded he is. He’s really thinking about the nuts and bolts of what AI might be able to do for people, and his thoughts about underserved parts of the world, the idea that we might actually be able to empower people with access to expert medical knowledge, I think is both inspiring and amazing.   And then, Seb, Sébastien Bubeck, he’s just absolutely a brilliant mind. He has a really firm grip on the deep mathematics of artificial intelligence and brings that to bear in his research and development work. And where that mathematics takes him isn’t just into the nuts and bolts of algorithms but into philosophical questions about the nature of intelligence.   One of the things that Sébastien brought up was the state of evaluation of AI systems. And indeed, he was fairly critical in our conversation. But of course, the world of AI research and development is just moving so fast, and indeed, since we recorded our conversation, OpenAI, in fact, released a new evaluation metric that is directly relevant to medical applications, and that is something called HealthBench. And Microsoft Research also released a new evaluation approach or process called ADeLe.   HealthBench and ADeLe are examples of new approaches to evaluating AI models that are less about testing their knowledge and ability to pass multiple-choice exams and instead are evaluation approaches designed to assess how well AI models are able to complete tasks that actually arise every day in typical healthcare or biomedical research settings. These are examples of really important good work that speak to how well AI models work in the real world of healthcare and biomedical research and how well they can collaborate with human beings in those settings.  You know, I asked Bill and Seb to make some predictions about the future. You know, my own answer, I expect that we’re going to be able to use AI to change how we diagnose patients, change how we decide treatment options.   If you’re a doctor or a nurse and you encounter a patient, you’ll ask questions, do a physical exam, you know, call out for labs just like you do today, but then you’ll be able to engage with AI based on all of that data and just ask, you know, based on all the other people who have gone through the same experience, who have similar data, how were they diagnosed? How were they treated? What were their outcomes? And what does that mean for the patient I have right now? Some people call it the “patients like me” paradigm. And I think that’s going to become real because of AI within our lifetimes. That idea of really grounding the delivery in healthcare and medical practice through data and intelligence, I actually now don’t see any barriers to that future becoming real.   I’d like to extend another big thank you to Bill and Sébastien for their time. And to our listeners, as always, it’s a pleasure to have you along for the ride. I hope you’ll join us for our remaining conversations, as well as a second coauthor roundtable with Carey and Zak.   Until next time.   #how #reshaping #future #healthcare #medical
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    How AI is reshaping the future of healthcare and medical research
    Transcript [MUSIC]      [BOOK PASSAGE]   PETER LEE: “In ‘The Little Black Bag,’ a classic science fiction story, a high-tech doctor’s kit of the future is accidentally transported back to the 1950s, into the shaky hands of a washed-up, alcoholic doctor. The ultimate medical tool, it redeems the doctor wielding it, allowing him to practice gratifyingly heroic medicine. … The tale ends badly for the doctor and his treacherous assistant, but it offered a picture of how advanced technology could transform medicine—powerful when it was written nearly 75 years ago and still so today. What would be the Al equivalent of that little black bag? At this moment when new capabilities are emerging, how do we imagine them into medicine?”   [END OF BOOK PASSAGE]     [THEME MUSIC]     This is The AI Revolution in Medicine, Revisited. I’m your host, Peter Lee.    Shortly after OpenAI’s GPT-4 was publicly released, Carey Goldberg, Dr. Zak Kohane, and I published The AI Revolution in Medicine to help educate the world of healthcare and medical research about the transformative impact this new generative AI technology could have. But because we wrote the book when GPT-4 was still a secret, we had to speculate. Now, two years later, what did we get right, and what did we get wrong?     In this series, we’ll talk to clinicians, patients, hospital administrators, and others to understand the reality of AI in the field and where we go from here.   [THEME MUSIC FADES] The book passage I read at the top is from “Chapter 10: The Big Black Bag.”  In imagining AI in medicine, Carey, Zak, and I included in our book two fictional accounts. In the first, a medical resident consults GPT-4 on her personal phone as the patient in front of her crashes. Within seconds, it offers an alternate response based on recent literature. In the second account, a 90-year-old woman with several chronic conditions is living independently and receiving near-constant medical support from an AI aide.    In our conversations with the guests we’ve spoken to so far, we’ve caught a glimpse of these predicted futures, seeing how clinicians and patients are actually using AI today and how developers are leveraging the technology in the healthcare products and services they’re creating. In fact, that first fictional account isn’t so fictional after all, as most of the doctors in the real world actually appear to be using AI at least occasionally—and sometimes much more than occasionally—to help in their daily clinical work. And as for the second fictional account, which is more of a science fiction account, it seems we are indeed on the verge of a new way of delivering and receiving healthcare, though the future is still very much open.  As we continue to examine the current state of AI in healthcare and its potential to transform the field, I’m pleased to welcome Bill Gates and Sébastien Bubeck.   Bill may be best known as the co-founder of Microsoft, having created the company with his childhood friend Paul Allen in 1975. He’s now the founder of Breakthrough Energy, which aims to advance clean energy innovation, and TerraPower, a company developing groundbreaking nuclear energy and science technologies. He also chairs the world’s largest philanthropic organization, the Gates Foundation, and focuses on solving a variety of health challenges around the globe and here at home.  Sébastien is a research lead at OpenAI. He was previously a distinguished scientist, vice president of AI, and a colleague of mine here at Microsoft, where his work included spearheading the development of the family of small language models known as Phi. While at Microsoft, he also coauthored the discussion-provoking 2023 paper “Sparks of Artificial General Intelligence,” which presented the results of early experiments with GPT-4 conducted by a small team from Microsoft Research.    [TRANSITION MUSIC]   Here’s my conversation with Bill Gates and Sébastien Bubeck.  LEE: Bill, welcome.  BILL GATES: Thank you.  LEE: Seb …  SÉBASTIEN BUBECK: Yeah. Hi, hi, Peter. Nice to be here.  LEE: You know, one of the things that I’ve been doing just to get the conversation warmed up is to talk about origin stories, and what I mean about origin stories is, you know, what was the first contact that you had with large language models or the concept of generative AI that convinced you or made you think that something really important was happening?  And so, Bill, I think I’ve heard the story about, you know, the time when the OpenAI folks—Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and others—showed you something, but could we hear from you what those early encounters were like and what was going through your mind?   GATES: Well, I’d been visiting OpenAI soon after it was created to see things like GPT-2 and to see the little arm they had that was trying to match human manipulation and, you know, looking at their games like Dota that they were trying to get as good as human play. And honestly, I didn’t think the language model stuff they were doing, even when they got to GPT-3, would show the ability to learn, you know, in the same sense that a human reads a biology book and is able to take that knowledge and access it not only to pass a test but also to create new medicines.  And so my challenge to them was that if their LLM could get a five on the advanced placement biology test, then I would say, OK, it took biologic knowledge and encoded it in an accessible way and that I didn’t expect them to do that very quickly but it would be profound.   And it was only about six months after I challenged them to do that, that an early version of GPT-4 they brought up to a dinner at my house, and in fact, it answered most of the questions that night very well. The one it got totally wrong, we were … because it was so good, we kept thinking, Oh, we must be wrong. It turned out it was a math weakness [LAUGHTER] that, you know, we later understood that that was an area of, weirdly, of incredible weakness of those early models. But, you know, that was when I realized, OK, the age of cheap intelligence was at its beginning.  LEE: Yeah. So I guess it seems like you had something similar to me in that my first encounters, I actually harbored some skepticism. Is it fair to say you were skeptical before that?  GATES: Well, the idea that we’ve figured out how to encode and access knowledge in this very deep sense without even understanding the nature of the encoding, …  LEE: Right.   GATES: … that is a bit weird.   LEE: Yeah.  GATES: We have an algorithm that creates the computation, but even say, OK, where is the president’s birthday stored in there? Where is this fact stored in there? The fact that even now when we’re playing around, getting a little bit more sense of it, it’s opaque to us what the semantic encoding is, it’s, kind of, amazing to me. I thought the invention of knowledge storage would be an explicit way of encoding knowledge, not an implicit statistical training.  LEE: Yeah, yeah. All right. So, Seb, you know, on this same topic, you know, I got—as we say at Microsoft—I got pulled into the tent. [LAUGHS]  BUBECK: Yes.   LEE: Because this was a very secret project. And then, um, I had the opportunity to select a small number of researchers in MSR [Microsoft Research] to join and start investigating this thing seriously. And the first person I pulled in was you.  BUBECK: Yeah.  LEE: And so what were your first encounters? Because I actually don’t remember what happened then.  BUBECK: Oh, I remember it very well. [LAUGHS] My first encounter with GPT-4 was in a meeting with the two of you, actually. But my kind of first contact, the first moment where I realized that something was happening with generative AI, was before that. And I agree with Bill that I also wasn’t too impressed by GPT-3.  I though that it was kind of, you know, very naturally mimicking the web, sort of parroting what was written there in a nice way. Still in a way which seemed very impressive. But it wasn’t really intelligent in any way. But shortly after GPT-3, there was a model before GPT-4 that really shocked me, and this was the first image generation model, DALL-E 1.  So that was in 2021. And I will forever remember the press release of OpenAI where they had this prompt of an avocado chair and then you had this image of the avocado chair. [LAUGHTER] And what really shocked me is that clearly the model kind of “understood” what is a chair, what is an avocado, and was able to merge those concepts.  So this was really, to me, the first moment where I saw some understanding in those models.   LEE: So this was, just to get the timing right, that was before I pulled you into the tent.  BUBECK: That was before. That was like a year before.  LEE: Right.   BUBECK: And now I will tell you how, you know, we went from that moment to the meeting with the two of you and GPT-4.  So once I saw this kind of understanding, I thought, OK, fine. It understands concept, but it’s still not able to reason. It cannot—as, you know, Bill was saying—it cannot learn from your document. It cannot reason.   So I set out to try to prove that. You know, this is what I was in the business of at the time, trying to prove things in mathematics. So I was trying to prove that basically autoregressive transformers could never reason. So I was trying to prove this. And after a year of work, I had something reasonable to show. And so I had the meeting with the two of you, and I had this example where I wanted to say, there is no way that an LLM is going to be able to do x.  And then as soon as I … I don’t know if you remember, Bill. But as soon as I said that, you said, oh, but wait a second. I had, you know, the OpenAI crew at my house recently, and they showed me a new model. Why don’t we ask this new model this question?   LEE: Yeah. BUBECK: And we did, and it solved it on the spot. And that really, honestly, just changed my life. Like, you know, I had been working for a year trying to say that this was impossible. And just right there, it was shown to be possible.   LEE: [LAUGHS] One of the very first things I got interested in—because I was really thinking a lot about healthcare—was healthcare and medicine.  And I don’t know if the two of you remember, but I ended up doing a lot of tests. I ran through, you know, step one and step two of the US Medical Licensing Exam. Did a whole bunch of other things. I wrote this big report. It was, you know, I can’t remember … a couple hundred pages.   And I needed to share this with someone. I didn’t … there weren’t too many people I could share it with. So I sent, I think, a copy to you, Bill. Sent a copy to you, Seb.   I hardly slept for about a week putting that report together. And, yeah, and I kept working on it. But I was far from alone. I think everyone who was in the tent, so to speak, in those early days was going through something pretty similar. All right. So I think … of course, a lot of what I put in the report also ended up being examples that made it into the book.  But the main purpose of this conversation isn’t to reminisce about [LAUGHS] or indulge in those reminiscences but to talk about what’s happening in healthcare and medicine. And, you know, as I said, we wrote this book. We did it very, very quickly. Seb, you helped. Bill, you know, you provided a review and some endorsements.  But, you know, honestly, we didn’t know what we were talking about because no one had access to this thing. And so we just made a bunch of guesses. So really, the whole thing I wanted to probe with the two of you is, now with two years of experience out in the world, what, you know, what do we think is happening today?  You know, is AI actually having an impact, positive or negative, on healthcare and medicine? And what do we now think is going to happen in the next two years, five years, or 10 years? And so I realize it’s a little bit too abstract to just ask it that way. So let me just try to narrow the discussion and guide us a little bit.   Um, the kind of administrative and clerical work, paperwork, around healthcare—and we made a lot of guesses about that—that appears to be going well, but, you know, Bill, I know we’ve discussed that sometimes that you think there ought to be a lot more going on. Do you have a viewpoint on how AI is actually finding its way into reducing paperwork?  GATES: Well, I’m stunned … I don’t think there should be a patient-doctor meeting where the AI is not sitting in and both transcribing, offering to help with the paperwork, and even making suggestions, although the doctor will be the one, you know, who makes the final decision about the diagnosis and whatever prescription gets done.   It’s so helpful. You know, when that patient goes home and their, you know, son who wants to understand what happened has some questions, that AI should be available to continue that conversation. And the way you can improve that experience and streamline things and, you know, involve the people who advise you. I don’t understand why that’s not more adopted, because there you still have the human in the loop making that final decision.  But even for, like, follow-up calls to make sure the patient did things, to understand if they have concerns and knowing when to escalate back to the doctor, the benefit is incredible. And, you know, that thing is ready for prime time. That paradigm is ready for prime time, in my view.  LEE: Yeah, there are some good products, but it seems like the number one use right now—and we kind of got this from some of the previous guests in previous episodes—is the use of AI just to respond to emails from patients. [LAUGHTER] Does that make sense to you?  BUBECK: Yeah. So maybe I want to second what Bill was saying but maybe take a step back first. You know, two years ago, like, the concept of clinical scribes, which is one of the things that we’re talking about right now, it would have sounded, in fact, it sounded two years ago, borderline dangerous. Because everybody was worried about hallucinations. What happened if you have this AI listening in and then it transcribes, you know, something wrong?  Now, two years later, I think it’s mostly working. And in fact, it is not yet, you know, fully adopted. You’re right. But it is in production. It is used, you know, in many, many places. So this rate of progress is astounding because it wasn’t obvious that we would be able to overcome those obstacles of hallucination. It’s not to say that hallucinations are fully solved. In the case of the closed system, they are.   Now, I think more generally what’s going on in the background is that there is something that we, that certainly I, underestimated, which is this management overhead. So I think the reason why this is not adopted everywhere is really a training and teaching aspect. People need to be taught, like, those systems, how to interact with them.  And one example that I really like, a study that recently appeared where they tried to use ChatGPT for diagnosis and they were comparing doctors without and with ChatGPT (opens in new tab). And the amazing thing … so this was a set of cases where the accuracy of the doctors alone was around 75%. ChatGPT alone was 90%. So that’s already kind of mind blowing. But then the kicker is that doctors with ChatGPT was 80%.   Intelligence alone is not enough. It’s also how it’s presented, how you interact with it. And ChatGPT, it’s an amazing tool. Obviously, I absolutely love it. But it’s not … you don’t want a doctor to have to type in, you know, prompts and use it that way.  It should be, as Bill was saying, kind of running continuously in the background, sending you notifications. And you have to be really careful of the rate at which those notifications are being sent. Because if they are too frequent, then the doctor will learn to ignore them. So you have to … all of those things matter, in fact, at least as much as the level of intelligence of the machine.  LEE: One of the things I think about, Bill, in that scenario that you described, doctors do some thinking about the patient when they write the note. So, you know, I’m always a little uncertain whether it’s actually … you know, you wouldn’t necessarily want to fully automate this, I don’t think. Or at least there needs to be some prompt to the doctor to make sure that the doctor puts some thought into what happened in the encounter with the patient. Does that make sense to you at all?  GATES: At this stage, you know, I’d still put the onus on the doctor to write the conclusions and the summary and not delegate that.  The tradeoffs you make a little bit are somewhat dependent on the situation you’re in. If you’re in Africa, So, yes, the doctor’s still going to have to do a lot of work, but just the quality of letting the patient and the people around them interact and ask questions and have things explained, that alone is such a quality improvement. It’s mind blowing.   LEE: So since you mentioned, you know, Africa—and, of course, this touches on the mission and some of the priorities of the Gates Foundation and this idea of democratization of access to expert medical care—what’s the most interesting stuff going on right now? Are there people and organizations or technologies that are impressing you or that you’re tracking?  GATES: Yeah. So the Gates Foundation has given out a lot of grants to people in Africa doing education, agriculture but more healthcare examples than anything. And the way these things start off, they often start out either being patient-centric in a narrow situation, like, OK, I’m a pregnant woman; talk to me. Or, I have infectious disease symptoms; talk to me. Or they’re connected to a health worker where they’re helping that worker get their job done. And we have lots of pilots out, you know, in both of those cases.   The dream would be eventually to have the thing the patient consults be so broad that it’s like having a doctor available who understands the local things.   LEE: Right.   GATES: We’re not there yet. But over the next two or three years, you know, particularly given the worsening financial constraints against African health systems, where the withdrawal of money has been dramatic, you know, figuring out how to take this—what I sometimes call “free intelligence”—and build a quality health system around that, we will have to be more radical in low-income countries than any rich country is ever going to be.   LEE: Also, there’s maybe a different regulatory environment, so some of those things maybe are easier? Because right now, I think the world hasn’t figured out how to and whether to regulate, let’s say, an AI that might give a medical diagnosis or write a prescription for a medication.  BUBECK: Yeah. I think one issue with this, and it’s also slowing down the deployment of AI in healthcare more generally, is a lack of proper benchmark. Because, you know, you were mentioning the USMLE [United States Medical Licensing Examination], for example. That’s a great test to test human beings and their knowledge of healthcare and medicine. But it’s not a great test to give to an AI.  It’s not asking the right questions. So finding what are the right questions to test whether an AI system is ready to give diagnosis in a constrained setting, that’s a very, very important direction, which to my surprise, is not yet accelerating at the rate that I was hoping for.  LEE: OK, so that gives me an excuse to get more now into the core AI tech because something I’ve discussed with both of you is this issue of what are the right tests. And you both know the very first test I give to any new spin of an LLM is I present a patient, the results—a mythical patient—the results of my physical exam, my mythical physical exam. Maybe some results of some initial labs. And then I present or propose a differential diagnosis. And if you’re not in medicine, a differential diagnosis you can just think of as a prioritized list of the possible diagnoses that fit with all that data. And in that proposed differential, I always intentionally make two mistakes.  I make a textbook technical error in one of the possible elements of the differential diagnosis, and I have an error of omission. And, you know, I just want to know, does the LLM understand what I’m talking about? And all the good ones out there do now. But then I want to know, can it spot the errors? And then most importantly, is it willing to tell me I’m wrong, that I’ve made a mistake?   That last piece seems really hard for AI today. And so let me ask you first, Seb, because at the time of this taping, of course, there was a new spin of GPT-4o last week that became overly sycophantic. In other words, it was actually prone in that test of mine not only to not tell me I’m wrong, but it actually praised me for the creativity of my differential. [LAUGHTER] What’s up with that?  BUBECK: Yeah, I guess it’s a testament to the fact that training those models is still more of an art than a science. So it’s a difficult job. Just to be clear with the audience, we have rolled back that [LAUGHS] version of GPT-4o, so now we don’t have the sycophant version out there.  Yeah, no, it’s a really difficult question. It has to do … as you said, it’s very technical. It has to do with the post-training and how, like, where do you nudge the model? So, you know, there is this very classical by now technique called RLHF [reinforcement learning from human feedback], where you push the model in the direction of a certain reward model. So the reward model is just telling the model, you know, what behavior is good, what behavior is bad.  But this reward model is itself an LLM, and, you know, Bill was saying at the very beginning of the conversation that we don’t really understand how those LLMs deal with concepts like, you know, where is the capital of France located? Things like that. It is the same thing for this reward model. We don’t know why it says that it prefers one output to another, and whether this is correlated with some sycophancy is, you know, something that we discovered basically just now. That if you push too hard in optimization on this reward model, you will get a sycophant model.  So it’s kind of … what I’m trying to say is we became too good at what we were doing, and we ended up, in fact, in a trap of the reward model.  LEE: I mean, you do want … it’s a difficult balance because you do want models to follow your desires and …  BUBECK: It’s a very difficult, very difficult balance.  LEE: So this brings up then the following question for me, which is the extent to which we think we’ll need to have specially trained models for things. So let me start with you, Bill. Do you have a point of view on whether we will need to, you know, quote-unquote take AI models to med school? Have them specially trained? Like, if you were going to deploy something to give medical care in underserved parts of the world, do we need to do something special to create those models?  GATES: We certainly need to teach them the African languages and the unique dialects so that the multimedia interactions are very high quality. We certainly need to teach them the disease prevalence and unique disease patterns like, you know, neglected tropical diseases and malaria. So we need to gather a set of facts that somebody trying to go for a US customer base, you know, wouldn’t necessarily have that in there.  Those two things are actually very straightforward because the additional training time is small. I’d say for the next few years, we’ll also need to do reinforcement learning about the context of being a doctor and how important certain behaviors are. Humans learn over the course of their life to some degree that, I’m in a different context and the way I behave in terms of being willing to criticize or be nice, you know, how important is it? Who’s here? What’s my relationship to them?   Right now, these machines don’t have that broad social experience. And so if you know it’s going to be used for health things, a lot of reinforcement learning of the very best humans in that context would still be valuable. Eventually, the models will, having read all the literature of the world about good doctors, bad doctors, it’ll understand as soon as you say, “I want you to be a doctor diagnosing somebody.” All of the implicit reinforcement that fits that situation, you know, will be there. LEE: Yeah. GATES: And so I hope three years from now, we don’t have to do that reinforcement learning. But today, for any medical context, you would want a lot of data to reinforce tone, willingness to say things when, you know, there might be something significant at stake.  LEE: Yeah. So, you know, something Bill said, kind of, reminds me of another thing that I think we missed, which is, the context also … and the specialization also pertains to different, I guess, what we still call “modes,” although I don’t know if the idea of multimodal is the same as it was two years ago. But, you know, what do you make of all of the hubbub around—in fact, within Microsoft Research, this is a big deal, but I think we’re far from alone—you know, medical images and vision, video, proteins and molecules, cell, you know, cellular data and so on.  BUBECK: Yeah. OK. So there is a lot to say to everything … to the last, you know, couple of minutes. Maybe on the specialization aspect, you know, I think there is, hiding behind this, a really fundamental scientific question of whether eventually we have a singular AGI [artificial general intelligence] that kind of knows everything and you can just put, you know, explain your own context and it will just get it and understand everything.  That’s one vision. I have to say, I don’t particularly believe in this vision. In fact, we humans are not like that at all. I think, hopefully, we are general intelligences, yet we have to specialize a lot. And, you know, I did myself a lot of RL, reinforcement learning, on mathematics. Like, that’s what I did, you know, spent a lot of time doing that. And I didn’t improve on other aspects. You know, in fact, I probably degraded in other aspects. [LAUGHTER] So it’s … I think it’s an important example to have in mind.  LEE: I think I might disagree with you on that, though, because, like, doesn’t a model have to see both good science and bad science in order to be able to gain the ability to discern between the two?  BUBECK: Yeah, no, that absolutely. I think there is value in seeing the generality, in having a very broad base. But then you, kind of, specialize on verticals. And this is where also, you know, open-weights model, which we haven’t talked about yet, are really important because they allow you to provide this broad base to everyone. And then you can specialize on top of it.  LEE: So we have about three hours of stuff to talk about, but our time is actually running low. BUBECK: Yes, yes, yes.   LEE: So I think I want … there’s a more provocative question. It’s almost a silly question, but I need to ask it of the two of you, which is, is there a future, you know, where AI replaces doctors or replaces, you know, medical specialties that we have today? So what does the world look like, say, five years from now?  GATES: Well, it’s important to distinguish healthcare discovery activity from healthcare delivery activity. We focused mostly on delivery. I think it’s very much within the realm of possibility that the AI is not only accelerating healthcare discovery but substituting for a lot of the roles of, you know, I’m an organic chemist, or I run various types of assays. I can see those, which are, you know, testable-output-type jobs but with still very high value, I can see, you know, some replacement in those areas before the doctor.   The doctor, still understanding the human condition and long-term dialogues, you know, they’ve had a lifetime of reinforcement of that, particularly when you get into areas like mental health. So I wouldn’t say in five years, either people will choose to adopt it, but it will be profound that there’ll be this nearly free intelligence that can do follow-up, that can help you, you know, make sure you went through different possibilities.  And so I’d say, yes, we’ll have doctors, but I’d say healthcare will be massively transformed in its quality and in efficiency by AI in that time period.  LEE: Is there a comparison, useful comparison, say, between doctors and, say, programmers, computer programmers, or doctors and, I don’t know, lawyers?  GATES: Programming is another one that has, kind of, a mathematical correctness to it, you know, and so the objective function that you’re trying to reinforce to, as soon as you can understand the state machines, you can have something that’s “checkable”; that’s correct. So I think programming, you know, which is weird to say, that the machine will beat us at most programming tasks before we let it take over roles that have deep empathy, you know, physical presence and social understanding in them.  LEE: Yeah. By the way, you know, I fully expect in five years that AI will produce mathematical proofs that are checkable for validity, easily checkable, because they’ll be written in a proof-checking language like Lean or something but will be so complex that no human mathematician can understand them. I expect that to happen.   I can imagine in some fields, like cellular biology, we could have the same situation in the future because the molecular pathways, the chemistry, biochemistry of human cells or living cells is as complex as any mathematics, and so it seems possible that we may be in a state where in wet lab, we see, Oh yeah, this actually works, but no one can understand why.  BUBECK: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think I really agree with Bill’s distinction of the discovery and the delivery, and indeed, the discovery’s when you can check things, and at the end, there is an artifact that you can verify. You know, you can run the protocol in the wet lab and see [if you have] produced what you wanted. So I absolutely agree with that.   And in fact, you know, we don’t have to talk five years from now. I don’t know if you know, but just recently, there was a paper that was published on a scientific discovery using o3- mini (opens in new tab). So this is really amazing. And, you know, just very quickly, just so people know, it was about this statistical physics model, the frustrated Potts model, which has to do with coloring, and basically, the case of three colors, like, more than two colors was open for a long time, and o3 was able to reduce the case of three colors to two colors.   LEE: Yeah.  BUBECK: Which is just, like, astounding. And this is not … this is now. This is happening right now. So this is something that I personally didn’t expect it would happen so quickly, and it’s due to those reasoning models.   Now, on the delivery side, I would add something more to it for the reason why doctors and, in fact, lawyers and coders will remain for a long time, and it’s because we still don’t understand how those models generalize. Like, at the end of the day, we are not able to tell you when they are confronted with a really new, novel situation, whether they will work or not.  Nobody is able to give you that guarantee. And I think until we understand this generalization better, we’re not going to be willing to just let the system in the wild without human supervision.  LEE: But don’t human doctors, human specialists … so, for example, a cardiologist sees a patient in a certain way that a nephrologist …  BUBECK: Yeah. LEE: … or an endocrinologist might not. BUBECK: That’s right. But another cardiologist will understand and, kind of, expect a certain level of generalization from their peer. And this, we just don’t have it with AI models. Now, of course, you’re exactly right. That generalization is also hard for humans. Like, if you have a human trained for one task and you put them into another task, then you don’t … you often don’t know. LEE: OK. You know, the podcast is focused on what’s happened over the last two years. But now, I’d like one provocative prediction about what you think the world of AI and medicine is going to be at some point in the future. You pick your timeframe. I don’t care if it’s two years or 20 years from now, but, you know, what do you think will be different about AI in medicine in that future than today?  BUBECK: Yeah, I think the deployment is going to accelerate soon. Like, we’re really not missing very much. There is this enormous capability overhang. Like, even if progress completely stopped, with current systems, we can do a lot more than what we’re doing right now. So I think this will … this has to be realized, you know, sooner rather than later.  And I think it’s probably dependent on these benchmarks and proper evaluation and tying this with regulation. So these are things that take time in human society and for good reason. But now we already are at two years; you know, give it another two years and it should be really …   LEE: Will AI prescribe your medicines? Write your prescriptions?  BUBECK: I think yes. I think yes.  LEE: OK. Bill?  GATES: Well, I think the next two years, we’ll have massive pilots, and so the amount of use of the AI, still in a copilot-type mode, you know, we should get millions of patient visits, you know, both in general medicine and in the mental health side, as well. And I think that’s going to build up both the data and the confidence to give the AI some additional autonomy. You know, are you going to let it talk to you at night when you’re panicked about your mental health with some ability to escalate? And, you know, I’ve gone so far as to tell politicians with national health systems that if they deploy AI appropriately, that the quality of care, the overload of the doctors, the improvement in the economics will be enough that their voters will be stunned because they just don’t expect this, and, you know, they could be reelected [LAUGHTER] just on this one thing of fixing what is a very overloaded and economically challenged health system in these rich countries.  You know, my personal role is going to be to make sure that in the poorer countries, there isn’t some lag; in fact, in many cases, that we’ll be more aggressive because, you know, we’re comparing to having no access to doctors at all. And, you know, so I think whether it’s India or Africa, there’ll be lessons that are globally valuable because we need medical intelligence. And, you know, thank god AI is going to provide a lot of that.  LEE: Well, on that optimistic note, I think that’s a good way to end. Bill, Seb, really appreciate all of this.   I think the most fundamental prediction we made in the book is that AI would actually find its way into the practice of medicine, and I think that that at least has come true, maybe in different ways than we expected, but it’s come true, and I think it’ll only accelerate from here. So thanks again, both of you.  [TRANSITION MUSIC]  GATES: Yeah. Thanks, you guys.  BUBECK: Thank you, Peter. Thanks, Bill.  LEE: I just always feel such a sense of privilege to have a chance to interact and actually work with people like Bill and Sébastien.    With Bill, I’m always amazed at how practically minded he is. He’s really thinking about the nuts and bolts of what AI might be able to do for people, and his thoughts about underserved parts of the world, the idea that we might actually be able to empower people with access to expert medical knowledge, I think is both inspiring and amazing.   And then, Seb, Sébastien Bubeck, he’s just absolutely a brilliant mind. He has a really firm grip on the deep mathematics of artificial intelligence and brings that to bear in his research and development work. And where that mathematics takes him isn’t just into the nuts and bolts of algorithms but into philosophical questions about the nature of intelligence.   One of the things that Sébastien brought up was the state of evaluation of AI systems. And indeed, he was fairly critical in our conversation. But of course, the world of AI research and development is just moving so fast, and indeed, since we recorded our conversation, OpenAI, in fact, released a new evaluation metric that is directly relevant to medical applications, and that is something called HealthBench. And Microsoft Research also released a new evaluation approach or process called ADeLe.   HealthBench and ADeLe are examples of new approaches to evaluating AI models that are less about testing their knowledge and ability to pass multiple-choice exams and instead are evaluation approaches designed to assess how well AI models are able to complete tasks that actually arise every day in typical healthcare or biomedical research settings. These are examples of really important good work that speak to how well AI models work in the real world of healthcare and biomedical research and how well they can collaborate with human beings in those settings.  You know, I asked Bill and Seb to make some predictions about the future. You know, my own answer, I expect that we’re going to be able to use AI to change how we diagnose patients, change how we decide treatment options.   If you’re a doctor or a nurse and you encounter a patient, you’ll ask questions, do a physical exam, you know, call out for labs just like you do today, but then you’ll be able to engage with AI based on all of that data and just ask, you know, based on all the other people who have gone through the same experience, who have similar data, how were they diagnosed? How were they treated? What were their outcomes? And what does that mean for the patient I have right now? Some people call it the “patients like me” paradigm. And I think that’s going to become real because of AI within our lifetimes. That idea of really grounding the delivery in healthcare and medical practice through data and intelligence, I actually now don’t see any barriers to that future becoming real.  [THEME MUSIC]  I’d like to extend another big thank you to Bill and Sébastien for their time. And to our listeners, as always, it’s a pleasure to have you along for the ride. I hope you’ll join us for our remaining conversations, as well as a second coauthor roundtable with Carey and Zak.   Until next time.   [MUSIC FADES]
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  • Op-ed: Canada’s leadership in solar air heating—Innovation and flagship projects

    Solar air heating is among the most cost-effective applications of solar thermal energy. These systems are used for space heating and preheating fresh air for ventilation, typically using glazed or unglazed perforated solar collectors. The collectors draw in outside air, heat it using solar energy, and then distribute it through ductwork to meet building heating and fresh air needs. In 2024, Canada led again the world for the at least seventh year in a row in solar air heating adoption. The four key suppliers – Trigo Energies, Conserval Engineering, Matrix Energy, and Aéronergie – reported a combined 26,203 m2of collector area sold last year. Several of these providers are optimistic about the growing demand. These findings come from the newly released Canadian Solar Thermal Market Survey 2024, commissioned by Natural Resources Canada.
    Canada is the global leader in solar air heating. The market is driven by a strong network of experienced system suppliers, optimized technologies, and a few small favorable funding programs – especially in the province of Quebec. Architects and developers are increasingly turning to these cost-effective, façade-integrated systems as a practical solution for reducing onsite natural gas consumption.
    Despite its cold climate, Canada benefits from strong solar potential with solar irradiance in many areas rivaling or even exceeding that of parts of Europe. This makes solar air heating not only viable, but especially valuable in buildings with high fresh air requirements including schools, hospitals, and offices. The projects highlighted in this article showcase the versatility and relevance of solar air heating across a range of building types, from new constructions to retrofits.
    Figure 1: Preheating air for industrial buildings: 2,750 m2of Calento SL solar air collectors cover all south-west and south-east facing facades of the FAB3R factory in Trois-Rivières, Quebec. The hourly unitary flow rate is set at 41 m3/m2 or 2.23 cfm/ft2 of collector area, at the lower range because only a limited number of intake fans was close enough to the solar façade to avoid long ventilation ductwork. Photo: Trigo Energies
    Quebec’s solar air heating boom: the Trigo Energies story
    Trigo Energies makes almost 90 per cent of its sales in Quebec. “We profit from great subsidies, as solar air systems are supported by several organizations in our province – the electricity utility Hydro Quebec, the gas utility Energir and the Ministry of Natural Resources,” explained Christian Vachon, Vice President Technologies and R&D at Trigo Energies.
    Trigo Energies currently has nine employees directly involved in planning, engineering and installing solar air heating systems and teams up with several partner contractors to install mostly retrofit projects. “A high degree of engineering is required to fit a solar heating system into an existing factory,” emphasized Vachon. “Knowledge about HVAC engineering is as important as experience with solar thermal and architecture.”
    One recent Trigo installation is at the FAB3R factory in Trois-Rivières. FAB3R specializes in manufacturing, repairing, and refurbishing large industrial equipment. Its air heating and ventilation system needed urgent renovation because of leakages and discomfort for the workers. “Due to many positive references he had from industries in the area, the owner of FAB3R contacted us,” explained Vachon. “The existence of subsidies helped the client to go for a retrofitting project including solar façade at once instead of fixing the problems one bit at a time.” Approximately 50 per cent of the investment costs for both the solar air heating and the renovation of the indoor ventilation system were covered by grants and subsidies. FAB3R profited from an Energir grant targeted at solar preheating, plus an investment subsidy from the Government of Quebec’s EcoPerformance Programme.
     
    Blue or black, but always efficient: the advanced absorber coating
    In October 2024, the majority of the new 2,750 m²solar façade at FAB3R began operation. According to Vachon, the system is expected to cover approximately 13 per cent of the factory’s annual heating demand, which is otherwise met by natural gas. Trigo Energies equipped the façade with its high-performance Calento SL collectors, featuring a notable innovation: a selective, low-emissivity coating that withstands outdoor conditions. Introduced by Trigo in 2019 and manufactured by Almeco Group from Italy, this advanced coating is engineered to maximize solar absorption while minimizing heat loss via infrared emission, enhancing the overall efficiency of the system.
    The high efficiency coating is now standard in Trigo’s air heating systems. According to the manufacturer, the improved collector design shows a 25 to 35 per cent increase in yield over the former generation of solar air collectors with black paint. Testing conducted at Queen’s University confirms this performance advantage. Researchers measured the performance of transpired solar air collectors both with and without a selective coating, mounted side-by-side on a south-facing vertical wall. The results showed that the collectors with the selective coating produced 1.3 to 1.5 times more energy than those without it. In 2024, the monitoring results were jointly published by Queen’s University and Canmat Energy in a paper titled Performance Comparison of a Transpired Air Solar Collector with Low-E Surface Coating.
    Selective coating, also used on other solar thermal technologies including glazed flat plate or vacuum tube collectors, has a distinctive blue color. Trigo customers can, however, choose between blue and black finishes. “By going from the normal blue selective coating to black selective coating, which Almeco is specially producing for Trigo, we lose about 1 per cent in solar efficiency,” explained Vachon.
    Figure 2: Building-integrated solar air heating façade with MatrixAir collectors at the firehall building in Mont Saint Hilaire, south of Montreal. The 190 m2south-facing wall preheats the fresh air, reducing natural gas consumption by 18 per cent compared to the conventional make-up system. Architect: Leclerc Architecture. Photo: Matrix Energy
    Matrix Energy: collaborating with architects and engineers in new builds
    The key target customer group of Matrix Energy are public buildings – mainly new construction. “Since the pandemic, schools are more conscious about fresh air, and solar preheating of the incoming fresh air has a positive impact over the entire school year,” noted Brian Wilkinson, President of Matrix Energy.
    Matrix Energy supplies systems across Canada, working with local partners to source and process the metal sheets used in their MatrixAir collectors. These metal sheets are perforated and then formed into architectural cladding profiles. The company exclusively offers unglazed, single-stage collectors, citing fire safety concerns associated with polymeric covers.
    “We have strong relationships with many architects and engineers who appreciate the simplicity and cost-effectiveness of transpired solar air heating systems,” said President Brian Wilkinson, describing the company’s sales approach. “Matrix handles system design and supplies the necessary materials, while installation is carried out by specialized cladding and HVAC contractors overseen by on-site architects and engineers,” Wilkinson added.
    Finding the right flow: the importance of unitary airflow rates
    One of the key design factors in solar air heating systems is the amount of air that passes through each square meter of the perforated metal absorber,  known as the unitary airflow rate. The principle is straightforward: higher airflow rates deliver more total heat to the building, while lower flow rates result in higher outlet air temperatures. Striking the right balance between air volume and temperature gain is essential for efficient system performance.
    For unglazed collectors mounted on building façades, typical hourly flow rates should range between 120 and 170, or 6.6 to 9.4 cfm/ft2. However, Wilkinson suggests that an hourly airflow rate of around 130 m³/h/m²offers the best cost-benefit balance for building owners. If the airflow is lower, the system will deliver higher air temperatures, but it would then need a much larger collector area to achieve the same air volume and optimum performance, he explained.
    It’s also crucial for the flow rate to overcome external wind pressure. As wind passes over the absorber, air flow through the collector’s perforations is reduced, resulting in heat losses to the environment. This effect becomes even more pronounced in taller buildings, where wind exposure is greater. To ensure the system performs well even in these conditions, higher hourly airflow rates typically between 150 and 170 m³/m² are necessary.
    Figure 3: One of three apartment blocks of the Maple House in Toronto’s Canary District. Around 160 m2of SolarWall collectors clad the two-storey mechanical penthouse on the roof. The rental flats have been occupied since the beginning of 2024. Collaborators: architects-Alliance, Claude Cormier et Associés, Thornton Tomasetti, RWDI, Cole Engineering, DesignAgency, MVShore, BA Group, EllisDon. Photo: Conserval Engineering
    Solar air heating systems support LEED-certified building designs
    Solar air collectors are also well-suited for use in multi-unit residential buildings. A prime example is the Canary District in Toronto, where single-stage SolarWall collectors from Conserval Engineering have been installed on several MURBs to clad the mechanical penthouses. “These penthouses are an ideal location for our air heating collectors, as they contain the make-up air units that supply corridor ventilation throughout the building,” explained Victoria Hollick, Vice President of Conserval Engineering. “The walls are typically finished with metal façades, which can be seamlessly replaced with a SolarWall system – maintaining the architectural language without disruption.” To date, nine solar air heating systems have been commissioned in the Canary District, covering a total collector area of over 1,000 m².
    “Our customers have many motivations to integrate SolarWall technology into their new construction or retrofit projects, either carbon reduction, ESG, or green building certification targets,” explained Hollick.
    The use of solar air collectors in the Canary District was proposed by architects from the Danish firm Cobe. The black-colored SolarWall system preheats incoming air before it is distributed to the building’s corridors and common areas, reducing reliance on natural gas heating and supporting the pursuit of LEED Gold certification. Hollick estimates the amount of gas saved between 10 to 20 per cent of the total heating load for the corridor ventilation of the multi-unit residential buildings. Additional energy-saving strategies include a 50/50 window-to-wall ratio with high-performance glazing, green roofs, high-efficiency mechanical systems, LED lighting, and Energy Star-certified appliances.
    The ideal orientation for a SolarWall system is due south. However, the systems can be built at any orientation up to 90° east and west, explained Hollick. A SolarWall at 90° would have approximately 60 per cent of the energy production of the same area facing south.Canada’s expertise in solar air heating continues to set a global benchmark, driven by supporting R&D, by innovative technologies, strategic partnerships, and a growing portfolio of high-impact projects. With strong policy support and proven performance, solar air heating is poised to play a key role in the country’s energy-efficient building future.
    Figure 4: Claude-Bechard Building in Quebec is a showcase project for sustainable architecture with a 72 m2Lubi solar air heating wall from Aéronergie. It serves as a regional administrative center. Architectural firm: Goulet et Lebel Architectes. Photo: Art Massif

    Bärbel Epp is the general manager of the German Agency solrico, whose focus is on solar market research and international communication.
    The post Op-ed: Canada’s leadership in solar air heating—Innovation and flagship projects appeared first on Canadian Architect.
    #oped #canadas #leadership #solar #air
    Op-ed: Canada’s leadership in solar air heating—Innovation and flagship projects
    Solar air heating is among the most cost-effective applications of solar thermal energy. These systems are used for space heating and preheating fresh air for ventilation, typically using glazed or unglazed perforated solar collectors. The collectors draw in outside air, heat it using solar energy, and then distribute it through ductwork to meet building heating and fresh air needs. In 2024, Canada led again the world for the at least seventh year in a row in solar air heating adoption. The four key suppliers – Trigo Energies, Conserval Engineering, Matrix Energy, and Aéronergie – reported a combined 26,203 m2of collector area sold last year. Several of these providers are optimistic about the growing demand. These findings come from the newly released Canadian Solar Thermal Market Survey 2024, commissioned by Natural Resources Canada. Canada is the global leader in solar air heating. The market is driven by a strong network of experienced system suppliers, optimized technologies, and a few small favorable funding programs – especially in the province of Quebec. Architects and developers are increasingly turning to these cost-effective, façade-integrated systems as a practical solution for reducing onsite natural gas consumption. Despite its cold climate, Canada benefits from strong solar potential with solar irradiance in many areas rivaling or even exceeding that of parts of Europe. This makes solar air heating not only viable, but especially valuable in buildings with high fresh air requirements including schools, hospitals, and offices. The projects highlighted in this article showcase the versatility and relevance of solar air heating across a range of building types, from new constructions to retrofits. Figure 1: Preheating air for industrial buildings: 2,750 m2of Calento SL solar air collectors cover all south-west and south-east facing facades of the FAB3R factory in Trois-Rivières, Quebec. The hourly unitary flow rate is set at 41 m3/m2 or 2.23 cfm/ft2 of collector area, at the lower range because only a limited number of intake fans was close enough to the solar façade to avoid long ventilation ductwork. Photo: Trigo Energies Quebec’s solar air heating boom: the Trigo Energies story Trigo Energies makes almost 90 per cent of its sales in Quebec. “We profit from great subsidies, as solar air systems are supported by several organizations in our province – the electricity utility Hydro Quebec, the gas utility Energir and the Ministry of Natural Resources,” explained Christian Vachon, Vice President Technologies and R&D at Trigo Energies. Trigo Energies currently has nine employees directly involved in planning, engineering and installing solar air heating systems and teams up with several partner contractors to install mostly retrofit projects. “A high degree of engineering is required to fit a solar heating system into an existing factory,” emphasized Vachon. “Knowledge about HVAC engineering is as important as experience with solar thermal and architecture.” One recent Trigo installation is at the FAB3R factory in Trois-Rivières. FAB3R specializes in manufacturing, repairing, and refurbishing large industrial equipment. Its air heating and ventilation system needed urgent renovation because of leakages and discomfort for the workers. “Due to many positive references he had from industries in the area, the owner of FAB3R contacted us,” explained Vachon. “The existence of subsidies helped the client to go for a retrofitting project including solar façade at once instead of fixing the problems one bit at a time.” Approximately 50 per cent of the investment costs for both the solar air heating and the renovation of the indoor ventilation system were covered by grants and subsidies. FAB3R profited from an Energir grant targeted at solar preheating, plus an investment subsidy from the Government of Quebec’s EcoPerformance Programme.   Blue or black, but always efficient: the advanced absorber coating In October 2024, the majority of the new 2,750 m²solar façade at FAB3R began operation. According to Vachon, the system is expected to cover approximately 13 per cent of the factory’s annual heating demand, which is otherwise met by natural gas. Trigo Energies equipped the façade with its high-performance Calento SL collectors, featuring a notable innovation: a selective, low-emissivity coating that withstands outdoor conditions. Introduced by Trigo in 2019 and manufactured by Almeco Group from Italy, this advanced coating is engineered to maximize solar absorption while minimizing heat loss via infrared emission, enhancing the overall efficiency of the system. The high efficiency coating is now standard in Trigo’s air heating systems. According to the manufacturer, the improved collector design shows a 25 to 35 per cent increase in yield over the former generation of solar air collectors with black paint. Testing conducted at Queen’s University confirms this performance advantage. Researchers measured the performance of transpired solar air collectors both with and without a selective coating, mounted side-by-side on a south-facing vertical wall. The results showed that the collectors with the selective coating produced 1.3 to 1.5 times more energy than those without it. In 2024, the monitoring results were jointly published by Queen’s University and Canmat Energy in a paper titled Performance Comparison of a Transpired Air Solar Collector with Low-E Surface Coating. Selective coating, also used on other solar thermal technologies including glazed flat plate or vacuum tube collectors, has a distinctive blue color. Trigo customers can, however, choose between blue and black finishes. “By going from the normal blue selective coating to black selective coating, which Almeco is specially producing for Trigo, we lose about 1 per cent in solar efficiency,” explained Vachon. Figure 2: Building-integrated solar air heating façade with MatrixAir collectors at the firehall building in Mont Saint Hilaire, south of Montreal. The 190 m2south-facing wall preheats the fresh air, reducing natural gas consumption by 18 per cent compared to the conventional make-up system. Architect: Leclerc Architecture. Photo: Matrix Energy Matrix Energy: collaborating with architects and engineers in new builds The key target customer group of Matrix Energy are public buildings – mainly new construction. “Since the pandemic, schools are more conscious about fresh air, and solar preheating of the incoming fresh air has a positive impact over the entire school year,” noted Brian Wilkinson, President of Matrix Energy. Matrix Energy supplies systems across Canada, working with local partners to source and process the metal sheets used in their MatrixAir collectors. These metal sheets are perforated and then formed into architectural cladding profiles. The company exclusively offers unglazed, single-stage collectors, citing fire safety concerns associated with polymeric covers. “We have strong relationships with many architects and engineers who appreciate the simplicity and cost-effectiveness of transpired solar air heating systems,” said President Brian Wilkinson, describing the company’s sales approach. “Matrix handles system design and supplies the necessary materials, while installation is carried out by specialized cladding and HVAC contractors overseen by on-site architects and engineers,” Wilkinson added. Finding the right flow: the importance of unitary airflow rates One of the key design factors in solar air heating systems is the amount of air that passes through each square meter of the perforated metal absorber,  known as the unitary airflow rate. The principle is straightforward: higher airflow rates deliver more total heat to the building, while lower flow rates result in higher outlet air temperatures. Striking the right balance between air volume and temperature gain is essential for efficient system performance. For unglazed collectors mounted on building façades, typical hourly flow rates should range between 120 and 170, or 6.6 to 9.4 cfm/ft2. However, Wilkinson suggests that an hourly airflow rate of around 130 m³/h/m²offers the best cost-benefit balance for building owners. If the airflow is lower, the system will deliver higher air temperatures, but it would then need a much larger collector area to achieve the same air volume and optimum performance, he explained. It’s also crucial for the flow rate to overcome external wind pressure. As wind passes over the absorber, air flow through the collector’s perforations is reduced, resulting in heat losses to the environment. This effect becomes even more pronounced in taller buildings, where wind exposure is greater. To ensure the system performs well even in these conditions, higher hourly airflow rates typically between 150 and 170 m³/m² are necessary. Figure 3: One of three apartment blocks of the Maple House in Toronto’s Canary District. Around 160 m2of SolarWall collectors clad the two-storey mechanical penthouse on the roof. The rental flats have been occupied since the beginning of 2024. Collaborators: architects-Alliance, Claude Cormier et Associés, Thornton Tomasetti, RWDI, Cole Engineering, DesignAgency, MVShore, BA Group, EllisDon. Photo: Conserval Engineering Solar air heating systems support LEED-certified building designs Solar air collectors are also well-suited for use in multi-unit residential buildings. A prime example is the Canary District in Toronto, where single-stage SolarWall collectors from Conserval Engineering have been installed on several MURBs to clad the mechanical penthouses. “These penthouses are an ideal location for our air heating collectors, as they contain the make-up air units that supply corridor ventilation throughout the building,” explained Victoria Hollick, Vice President of Conserval Engineering. “The walls are typically finished with metal façades, which can be seamlessly replaced with a SolarWall system – maintaining the architectural language without disruption.” To date, nine solar air heating systems have been commissioned in the Canary District, covering a total collector area of over 1,000 m². “Our customers have many motivations to integrate SolarWall technology into their new construction or retrofit projects, either carbon reduction, ESG, or green building certification targets,” explained Hollick. The use of solar air collectors in the Canary District was proposed by architects from the Danish firm Cobe. The black-colored SolarWall system preheats incoming air before it is distributed to the building’s corridors and common areas, reducing reliance on natural gas heating and supporting the pursuit of LEED Gold certification. Hollick estimates the amount of gas saved between 10 to 20 per cent of the total heating load for the corridor ventilation of the multi-unit residential buildings. Additional energy-saving strategies include a 50/50 window-to-wall ratio with high-performance glazing, green roofs, high-efficiency mechanical systems, LED lighting, and Energy Star-certified appliances. The ideal orientation for a SolarWall system is due south. However, the systems can be built at any orientation up to 90° east and west, explained Hollick. A SolarWall at 90° would have approximately 60 per cent of the energy production of the same area facing south.Canada’s expertise in solar air heating continues to set a global benchmark, driven by supporting R&D, by innovative technologies, strategic partnerships, and a growing portfolio of high-impact projects. With strong policy support and proven performance, solar air heating is poised to play a key role in the country’s energy-efficient building future. Figure 4: Claude-Bechard Building in Quebec is a showcase project for sustainable architecture with a 72 m2Lubi solar air heating wall from Aéronergie. It serves as a regional administrative center. Architectural firm: Goulet et Lebel Architectes. Photo: Art Massif Bärbel Epp is the general manager of the German Agency solrico, whose focus is on solar market research and international communication. The post Op-ed: Canada’s leadership in solar air heating—Innovation and flagship projects appeared first on Canadian Architect. #oped #canadas #leadership #solar #air
    WWW.CANADIANARCHITECT.COM
    Op-ed: Canada’s leadership in solar air heating—Innovation and flagship projects
    Solar air heating is among the most cost-effective applications of solar thermal energy. These systems are used for space heating and preheating fresh air for ventilation, typically using glazed or unglazed perforated solar collectors. The collectors draw in outside air, heat it using solar energy, and then distribute it through ductwork to meet building heating and fresh air needs. In 2024, Canada led again the world for the at least seventh year in a row in solar air heating adoption. The four key suppliers – Trigo Energies, Conserval Engineering, Matrix Energy, and Aéronergie – reported a combined 26,203 m2 (282,046 ft2) of collector area sold last year. Several of these providers are optimistic about the growing demand. These findings come from the newly released Canadian Solar Thermal Market Survey 2024, commissioned by Natural Resources Canada. Canada is the global leader in solar air heating. The market is driven by a strong network of experienced system suppliers, optimized technologies, and a few small favorable funding programs – especially in the province of Quebec. Architects and developers are increasingly turning to these cost-effective, façade-integrated systems as a practical solution for reducing onsite natural gas consumption. Despite its cold climate, Canada benefits from strong solar potential with solar irradiance in many areas rivaling or even exceeding that of parts of Europe. This makes solar air heating not only viable, but especially valuable in buildings with high fresh air requirements including schools, hospitals, and offices. The projects highlighted in this article showcase the versatility and relevance of solar air heating across a range of building types, from new constructions to retrofits. Figure 1: Preheating air for industrial buildings: 2,750 m2 (29,600 ft2) of Calento SL solar air collectors cover all south-west and south-east facing facades of the FAB3R factory in Trois-Rivières, Quebec. The hourly unitary flow rate is set at 41 m3/m2 or 2.23 cfm/ft2 of collector area, at the lower range because only a limited number of intake fans was close enough to the solar façade to avoid long ventilation ductwork. Photo: Trigo Energies Quebec’s solar air heating boom: the Trigo Energies story Trigo Energies makes almost 90 per cent of its sales in Quebec. “We profit from great subsidies, as solar air systems are supported by several organizations in our province – the electricity utility Hydro Quebec, the gas utility Energir and the Ministry of Natural Resources,” explained Christian Vachon, Vice President Technologies and R&D at Trigo Energies. Trigo Energies currently has nine employees directly involved in planning, engineering and installing solar air heating systems and teams up with several partner contractors to install mostly retrofit projects. “A high degree of engineering is required to fit a solar heating system into an existing factory,” emphasized Vachon. “Knowledge about HVAC engineering is as important as experience with solar thermal and architecture.” One recent Trigo installation is at the FAB3R factory in Trois-Rivières. FAB3R specializes in manufacturing, repairing, and refurbishing large industrial equipment. Its air heating and ventilation system needed urgent renovation because of leakages and discomfort for the workers. “Due to many positive references he had from industries in the area, the owner of FAB3R contacted us,” explained Vachon. “The existence of subsidies helped the client to go for a retrofitting project including solar façade at once instead of fixing the problems one bit at a time.” Approximately 50 per cent of the investment costs for both the solar air heating and the renovation of the indoor ventilation system were covered by grants and subsidies. FAB3R profited from an Energir grant targeted at solar preheating, plus an investment subsidy from the Government of Quebec’s EcoPerformance Programme.   Blue or black, but always efficient: the advanced absorber coating In October 2024, the majority of the new 2,750 m² (29,600 ft2) solar façade at FAB3R began operation (see figure 1). According to Vachon, the system is expected to cover approximately 13 per cent of the factory’s annual heating demand, which is otherwise met by natural gas. Trigo Energies equipped the façade with its high-performance Calento SL collectors, featuring a notable innovation: a selective, low-emissivity coating that withstands outdoor conditions. Introduced by Trigo in 2019 and manufactured by Almeco Group from Italy, this advanced coating is engineered to maximize solar absorption while minimizing heat loss via infrared emission, enhancing the overall efficiency of the system. The high efficiency coating is now standard in Trigo’s air heating systems. According to the manufacturer, the improved collector design shows a 25 to 35 per cent increase in yield over the former generation of solar air collectors with black paint. Testing conducted at Queen’s University confirms this performance advantage. Researchers measured the performance of transpired solar air collectors both with and without a selective coating, mounted side-by-side on a south-facing vertical wall. The results showed that the collectors with the selective coating produced 1.3 to 1.5 times more energy than those without it. In 2024, the monitoring results were jointly published by Queen’s University and Canmat Energy in a paper titled Performance Comparison of a Transpired Air Solar Collector with Low-E Surface Coating. Selective coating, also used on other solar thermal technologies including glazed flat plate or vacuum tube collectors, has a distinctive blue color. Trigo customers can, however, choose between blue and black finishes. “By going from the normal blue selective coating to black selective coating, which Almeco is specially producing for Trigo, we lose about 1 per cent in solar efficiency,” explained Vachon. Figure 2: Building-integrated solar air heating façade with MatrixAir collectors at the firehall building in Mont Saint Hilaire, south of Montreal. The 190 m2 (2,045 ft2) south-facing wall preheats the fresh air, reducing natural gas consumption by 18 per cent compared to the conventional make-up system. Architect: Leclerc Architecture. Photo: Matrix Energy Matrix Energy: collaborating with architects and engineers in new builds The key target customer group of Matrix Energy are public buildings – mainly new construction. “Since the pandemic, schools are more conscious about fresh air, and solar preheating of the incoming fresh air has a positive impact over the entire school year,” noted Brian Wilkinson, President of Matrix Energy. Matrix Energy supplies systems across Canada, working with local partners to source and process the metal sheets used in their MatrixAir collectors. These metal sheets are perforated and then formed into architectural cladding profiles. The company exclusively offers unglazed, single-stage collectors, citing fire safety concerns associated with polymeric covers. “We have strong relationships with many architects and engineers who appreciate the simplicity and cost-effectiveness of transpired solar air heating systems,” said President Brian Wilkinson, describing the company’s sales approach. “Matrix handles system design and supplies the necessary materials, while installation is carried out by specialized cladding and HVAC contractors overseen by on-site architects and engineers,” Wilkinson added. Finding the right flow: the importance of unitary airflow rates One of the key design factors in solar air heating systems is the amount of air that passes through each square meter of the perforated metal absorber,  known as the unitary airflow rate. The principle is straightforward: higher airflow rates deliver more total heat to the building, while lower flow rates result in higher outlet air temperatures. Striking the right balance between air volume and temperature gain is essential for efficient system performance. For unglazed collectors mounted on building façades, typical hourly flow rates should range between 120 and 170 (m3/h/m2), or 6.6 to 9.4 cfm/ft2. However, Wilkinson suggests that an hourly airflow rate of around 130 m³/h/m² (7.2 cfm/ft2) offers the best cost-benefit balance for building owners. If the airflow is lower, the system will deliver higher air temperatures, but it would then need a much larger collector area to achieve the same air volume and optimum performance, he explained. It’s also crucial for the flow rate to overcome external wind pressure. As wind passes over the absorber, air flow through the collector’s perforations is reduced, resulting in heat losses to the environment. This effect becomes even more pronounced in taller buildings, where wind exposure is greater. To ensure the system performs well even in these conditions, higher hourly airflow rates typically between 150 and 170 m³/m² (8.3 to 9.4 cfm/ft2)  are necessary. Figure 3: One of three apartment blocks of the Maple House in Toronto’s Canary District. Around 160 m2 (1,722 ft2) of SolarWall collectors clad the two-storey mechanical penthouse on the roof. The rental flats have been occupied since the beginning of 2024. Collaborators: architects-Alliance, Claude Cormier et Associés, Thornton Tomasetti, RWDI, Cole Engineering, DesignAgency, MVShore, BA Group, EllisDon. Photo: Conserval Engineering Solar air heating systems support LEED-certified building designs Solar air collectors are also well-suited for use in multi-unit residential buildings. A prime example is the Canary District in Toronto (see Figure 3), where single-stage SolarWall collectors from Conserval Engineering have been installed on several MURBs to clad the mechanical penthouses. “These penthouses are an ideal location for our air heating collectors, as they contain the make-up air units that supply corridor ventilation throughout the building,” explained Victoria Hollick, Vice President of Conserval Engineering. “The walls are typically finished with metal façades, which can be seamlessly replaced with a SolarWall system – maintaining the architectural language without disruption.” To date, nine solar air heating systems have been commissioned in the Canary District, covering a total collector area of over 1,000 m² (10,764 ft2). “Our customers have many motivations to integrate SolarWall technology into their new construction or retrofit projects, either carbon reduction, ESG, or green building certification targets,” explained Hollick. The use of solar air collectors in the Canary District was proposed by architects from the Danish firm Cobe. The black-colored SolarWall system preheats incoming air before it is distributed to the building’s corridors and common areas, reducing reliance on natural gas heating and supporting the pursuit of LEED Gold certification. Hollick estimates the amount of gas saved between 10 to 20 per cent of the total heating load for the corridor ventilation of the multi-unit residential buildings. Additional energy-saving strategies include a 50/50 window-to-wall ratio with high-performance glazing, green roofs, high-efficiency mechanical systems, LED lighting, and Energy Star-certified appliances. The ideal orientation for a SolarWall system is due south. However, the systems can be built at any orientation up to 90° east and west, explained Hollick. A SolarWall at 90° would have approximately 60 per cent of the energy production of the same area facing south.Canada’s expertise in solar air heating continues to set a global benchmark, driven by supporting R&D, by innovative technologies, strategic partnerships, and a growing portfolio of high-impact projects. With strong policy support and proven performance, solar air heating is poised to play a key role in the country’s energy-efficient building future. Figure 4: Claude-Bechard Building in Quebec is a showcase project for sustainable architecture with a 72 m2 (775 ft2) Lubi solar air heating wall from Aéronergie. It serves as a regional administrative center. Architectural firm: Goulet et Lebel Architectes. Photo: Art Massif Bärbel Epp is the general manager of the German Agency solrico, whose focus is on solar market research and international communication. The post Op-ed: Canada’s leadership in solar air heating—Innovation and flagship projects appeared first on Canadian Architect.
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