Interviews Black Doves: Peter Eszenyi (On Set VFX Supervisor) & Jonathan Harris (VFX Supervisor & Founder – dupe) By Vincent Frei - 08/04/2025 In 2019, Peter Eszenyi spoke to us about his work on The Dark Crystal: The Age of Resistance. Since then, he has contributed to a variety of projects including Hawkeye, Dance Monsters, Renegade Nell, and Rivals. Back in 2020, Jonathan Harris broke down the visual effects work behind Gangs of London. Since then, he has contributed to several other productions, including Liaison. How did you get involved on this series? Peter Eszenyi (PE): I had worked with Jono (Jonathan Harris) and dupe on Renegade Nell, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. It was a challenging show, but the way the dupe team handled it was proof that there is capability there to handle anything VFX wise on any show. Jono asked me to get involved with the show and introduced me to Harry (Munday – producer) and Alex (Gabassi – director). Jonathan Harris (JH): We had worked with Harry Munday on Sister and HBO’s Landscapers and so he phoned us up to get quotes and it evolved from there. How was the collaboration with the Creator Joe Barton and the directors? PE: I have not worked with Joe directly, although I am a great admirer of his work. Loved Giri/Haji! I loved working with both directors, Alex (Alex Gabassi) and Lisa (Lisa Gunning) have different directing styles, but both of them were laser focused on telling the story of Black Doves as well as possible, and put a great effort into developing the characters. I believe the human element, the undercurrent of the personal backstories of Helen and Sam (and the supporting cast) is the element that sets this show apart from similar ones. JH: dupe doesn’t have a direct relationship with Joe Barton but we had previously worked with Alex Gabassi. It was one of the first jobs for dupe back in 2017 I believe and it was one of Alex’s first gigs in the UK so it was really nice to work together again and catchup on how the journey had been for each other. How did you organize the work with your VFX Producer? PE: I would say that the show for me is divided into two distinctive segments, the on-set part and the post bit. I was mostly involved with the on-set part, which meant dealing with script changes, budget changes, schedule changes and sometimes with the changing scope, and doing this in a way that protected the post segment as much as possible. With the second part mostly dealt with by the dupe team, my job in that period was limited to dealing with specific aspects of the show and helping the team as much as possible. In this process I had great help from Rachel Webb and Viola Asztalos who handled the production at dupe and were instrumental in making sure all is looking as good as possible whilst staying the course budget wise. On set I had a great relationship with Harry Munday, Emma Downes and Georgette Mason and the production managing team, and we talked a lot about what can be done to make the show look as good as possible without breaking the bank. Lots of chat about snow for sure! JH: dupe’s production team led by Rachel Webb worked with Harry and Tara Bhoola (Post Supervisor) to gauge the volume of work and key stages and how it held up against the post schedule. There were some delays here and there on both sides but the communication was candid and easy with the client so we easily found the way through any bottlenecks or tricky creative moments. Could you start by giving us an overview of your role as VFX Supervisor on Black Doves and how you approached the visual effects for this espionage series? PE: The post part of the show was handled at dupe by Luke Butler and Jack Hennigan. I have worked with Luke on Renegade Nell, and with him and Jack on board I was a hundred percent sure the show is going to look as good as it can, so my job was to make sure they have everything at their disposal to do their parts well. Black Doves was always meant to be a show where visual effects are purely in the service of the story, and stay in the background, almost always invisible whilst being precisely what they need to be. We used VFX where doing something practically was not possible, too dangerous or too expensive. My job was to reassure the directors and producers on set that everything they want to tell will be told, and that the post team will always have a couple of tricks up their sleeve to do the invisible work regardless of potential last minute changes on set or in the edit. We shot a huge amount of the show on locations, quite often outside and mostly during winter,- not always the most favourable experience. I needed to make sure none of this is hindering what we planned to do in post. There were a few key moments, the so called big VFX moments where I needed to plan way ahead of what will happen months after the show was shot, so I consulted the dupe team, making sure they are on board with my plans. This meant creating models and using AR to plan camera angles and suggesting focal lengths to Mark Patten and Giulio Bicarri, understanding what kind of reflections would be captured if we did the shot on a real location (we shot a lot of the driving scenes in a Volume), and creating previz for some of the more action based scenes and tweaking them to fit the actual shooting locations and camera positions. As for the usual bread and butter tasks I made sure the dupe team has all the relevant information available from the set, HDRIs, lighting plans and scans where needed was provided by me. JH: Jack Supervised most of block 1, which was Alex’s episodes and Luke took over for Lisa’s episodes. Both supervisors built good relationships with the Directors as well as Harry who helped keep the continuity and budget in check across the season. Early on a key part of the creative conversation was around gore levels and what we were aiming for. With heads exploding and such like an fairly untamed element of gore was going to be necessary. These were fast moments though and not gratuituous. Additionally the screen inserts were a large point of debate and the teams spent time getting the balance of keeping things realistic to what we all know and expect but creatively different and interesting for the show and time period. What are the challenges of creating invisible visual effects, and how do you ensure they seamlessly blend into the real-world environments? PE: I think the key is to base as much as possible on real elements, That you either capture or have some references for. I think a lot of visual effects when it comes to invisible effects are things we saw already, either in person or through some sort of medium. We all know how fire and snow looks like. What we need to do is make sure the familiar element is believable in their new context in the specific show. With these covered I think it is a somewhat easier task, from time to time you have to step back and ask yourself whether this passes as realistic or not. Then you have to factor in the aesthetics of the show, the directors’ and DOPs’ personal taste that needs to shape your output and with all these combined you should have something that works for that specific shot or sequence whilst maintaining the idea of what we think of it. For the flat explosion, on top of the recces I went to the location before and after the shoot several times to make sure everything we planned is achievable, created detailed scans of the entire marina, measured every aspect of it, so I could confidently answer any questions that might come up. I believe you have to have deep knowledge of the locations you want to put the “invisible effects” in so you can prepare in advance. In practical terms it means, lidar, photogrammetry, panoramas, HDRIs, sometimes consulting building plans sourced from to the local council. Besides all that, communicating with the other departments is a must, on this show we had a few large sets in the studio where I have had a lot of help from the art department, and reciprocally I tried to help them as much as I could with their planning – we had lots of fun conversations around viewing angles and translights! Another huge challenge was the snow, narratively an important part of the last episode, practically a beast that needs a lot for coordination between SFX, art department, production, locations, basically all departments to work around the constraints. It is really difficult to have as much snow on set in London as you want, so we had to be economical with where we put the effort, I think everybody understood that is is sometimes more beneficial to move the camera closer or turn it away a bit to be able to afford putting snow into shots where it mattered the most. How did you approach the creation and enhancement of the environments in Black Doves, and what were some of the most complex scenes to tackle? PE: I think you could say that London played a huge part in the series, so we wanted to make sure it is celebrated when it comes to extending environments. I believe the biggest challenges were the huge snowy vista at the end of the last episode and making sure some distant shooting locations feel as one cohesive element in the show. The snowy vista stemmed from a drone recce I did at Helen’s house, I had done some rough passes trying to find some great looking angles for the last shot, and Lisa and Giuilo liked one where the camera pulled back as it flew up and backwards revealing the wider environment with Helen and Sam having a Christmas drink on the balcony. The move in the show executed by the drone team was great, but it meant that the team had to prepare a huge, super detailed DMP as we reveal a snowy London whilst trying to not give away the real location of the house we shot in – I believe as this was the end of the show it was all worth the effort! The flat explosion scene was also a great challenge, as we we shot it in a real location, but production built the flat and filmed in it on a soundstage. This needed a lot of planning and precision in order to make sure all lines up – the stunts, the time it takes for Helen and Sam to fall into the water below, the angles we need to see this from – it took us a while to get it all worked out. In terms of action and stunt scenes, what were some of the key contributions of your VFX team? Can you share an example where visual effects made a significant difference? PE: I believe a fair few of the fight scenes had some VFX augmentation, or cleanup. Jo McLaren and her stunt team did a fantastic job, and their stuntvis was extremely valuable as a tool to help all involved to understand the scene and the relationship between the action and the locations. They did the heavy lifting with the sfx team and the weapons team. For those scenes we contributed with secondary elements like muzzle flashes, bullet hits and similar, as well as cleaning some of the issues that are inevitable when it comes to film high energy stunt scenes. JH: As Peter says a lot of great work was caught in camera and made our job easier to do. The shotgun head explosion in the flat with the two assassins was a fun one to enhance. The series features bullet impacts and explosions. What techniques or tools did you use to achieve a realistic look while maintaining the safety of the cast and crew? PE: We had a great weapons team on the show – the guys from Bapty and Co were a pleasure to work with. We had a day where we had the luxury of filming all the guns and weapons used in the show with a high speed camera from various angles in a little tent and we used these elements to augment the shots. As always, using muzzle flashes was a creative decision, In reality quite often you won’t able to see any muzzle flashes captured by cameras, so when the decision was made to do that for the show we were able to do our work with the filmed elements. How closely did you work with the stunt team and cinematographers to ensure the VFX complemented the physical action on set? PE: I always had a ton of respect for Jo Mclaren and her stunt team – they are a pleasure to work with and they were able to share their stuntviz work with the team, I believe that was instrumental for us to understand what sort of ways we need to contribute to the shots. I loved Mark and Giulio’s previous work so for me it was really exciting to work with them and their camera operators, James and Kat and the rest of the camera team, and I think we all had a lot of very important conversations around how we can help each other’s work. We had a fair few interesting challenges whether that is underwater shots or a mirror that needs to break but seen from a specific angle – I’d like to think we have managed to figure things out well! I am always very grateful for the camera team’s help on sets, it is reassuring to know that we can rely on one another on set. Were there any technical challenges you faced during the production, and how did you overcome them? PE: It was cold! Is that a technical challenge? I think as usual time is the biggest challenge and anything that helps with speeding up the way we do things is extremely helpful. I used an iPad with AR overlays for some sets to make sure everybody is on the same page, and all departments have the relevant info about what needs to be done and how we envisaged it. I did a lot of that on Renegade Nell, to show everybody where the cameras are located and that makes a lot of difference for turning around and setting up. There were some locations that were not easy to access, and sometimes the interiors and the exteriors were in places far away from one another – making sure they mesh seamlessly was an big task – for example their geographical differences meant the sun moved differently and similar seemingly little things can build up to be a much bigger problem later on if you let your guard down. Espionage series often require a balance between realism and heightened drama. How did you strike that balance in your visual effects work? PE: We absolutely wanted to make sure whatever we do ends up being realistic, therefore the audience does not lose their immersion into the world of Black Doves. In this case we tried to do the exact opposite of the bigger the better – tried to stay as grounded as possible. Even with elements like blood splatters and such, if not treated with a bit of restraint, can end up being too much. Invisible effects often need to stay within strict budgetary limits. How did you manage resources while maintaining high-quality visuals? PE: Trying to underpromise and over deliver. I had to be realistic with the directors and producers on what it means if we do things in a certain way, and if there is any other, sometimes cheaper but not necessarily worse solution we can offer. A lot of issues that seem like big things in the heat of shooting can become less of a problem, especially if you are confident that there is an alternative way of dealing with them. In the recent years keeping costs manageable has become the main driving factor with regards to VFX and I firmly believe that there is a way where we can do high quality work with limited budgets, and the key element for that is planning. And when things start to stray away from the plans you need to have the confidence that the new situation can be dealt with whilst respecting the original creative intent and budget. This needs open and honest communication between the stakeholders – we all want to make a great show! JH: This follows through into the editorial decisions too. Shot counts have an obvious impact on budgets so working with Harry and Tara on shot counts and creative approaches to certain scenes to make sure we were successful in realising the directors vision in a way that didn’t get carried away with the process was something we all kept an eye on. The handover from Peter to Jack and Luke was also key in understanding the intent on set and what first versions of shots and scenes would be so as to get to the solution fast and reduce iterations. Could you highlight the contributions of specific departments or artists on your team who were instrumental in achieving the final look? PE: Love to give a big shoutout to Yordan Ivanov who was instrumental in keeping the high quality and creative consistency of all the fight scenes. His understanding of our elements library and finding quick solutions to give shots high impact was second to none. Thank you Yordan! Invisible effects are most successful when audiences don’t notice them. How do you measure the success of your work in such cases? JH: We’ve delivered a lot of work across ‘invisible vfx’ type shows over the years and the best compliment is always when someone says they didn’t think there were any VFX. Internally though the success is the balance of having fun with the work and pleasing the Directors and the producers together. We enjoyed this show and we are excited to see where Season 2 goes. Looking back on the project, what aspects of the visual effects are you most proud of? PE: That we achieved a lot with the resources we had, and contributed to telling a fantastic story whilst not drawing too much attention to the fact that visual effects were required. Which sequence or shot was the most challenging? PE: Funnily enough not necessarily the ones we originally flagged up as problematic. Some seemingly small and innocent things, like art directing vape smoke was an interesting challenge because it needed to behave in a specific way and stay believable, whilst matching exactly the intent of the directors. But as always, there are things when you know it will be challenging, but if you are prepared and do your due diligence they usually stay on this side of problematic. The fight scene in the club was a fun challenge with all the mirrors! Is there something specific that gives you some really short nights? PE: Not really, knowing that the dupe team had my back, and I am doing what I can to give them what they need helped to alleviate some, if not all of the anxiety. JH: Thanks Peter! – dito. There is always a crunch towards the end that keeps you on your toes but again fair play to Harry and Tara who were a joy to work with and made communication a brease when solving problems. What is your favorite shot or sequence? PE: I have to say I love the shootout inside the Newmans hideout in Ep4 and the big explosion in EP2. Great to see all the individual elements aligning and supporting the moment. What is your best memory on this show? PE: I was in awe of how beautiful the sets built by the art department were – Elmore’s flat and the Jewellery shop looked amazing. And having fantastic and creative conversations with everybody on set, sorting problems out whilst enjoying glimpses into someone else’s creative process. How long have you worked on this show? PE: From November 2023 to March 2024, and a few weeks during the summer. What’s the VFX shots count? PE: 396 shots. What is your next project? PE: Not confirmed yet – but looking forward to it! We are working on season 2 of Buccaneers for Apple and Forge Entertainment. A big thanks for your time. Click on the picture to watch the reel. // TRAILERS WANT TO KNOW MORE?dupe: Dedicated page about Black Doves on dupe website. © Vincent Frei – The Art of VFX – 2025