OGlolMemberJun 4, 20181,879Just curious what people think about this. I've noticed a trend where a lot of newer souls-like games get post-launch balance patches that tone down some of the tougher bosses based on player feedback.If I buy a game on sale months later, am I basically getting the "easier" version of what earlier players struggled through? Ry.AVALANCHEMemberOct 10, 20213,362the planet ZebesAs someone who played Lies of P and about half of Berserker Khazan before the nerfs happened, No, you aren't missing out. The nerfs made to those two made a lot of sense to me, and were not very substantial regardless, but ended up making all the difference. Tedious turned into satisfaction. Personally it makes me want to wait until the balance patches occur. Generally devs want their game to feel cohesive and well crafted, and over-tuned boss battles aren't what they are going for. Both those games are still substantial challenges post balance patches.Agni KaiMemberNov 2, 20179,713EDIT: Nevermind. I misread the OP!araMemberOct 26, 201713,594I didn't know Lies of P got patches to make it a bit easier. I'll have to give it another try lol.Chaos2FrozenMemberNov 3, 201729,806What's the concern?BleepMemberNov 12, 2017235Difficulty changes are overblown and don't change how enjoyable the games are. You aren't getting a lesser version of the game. It's just a strange vocal minority who cares about some misplaced idea about the integrity of original balancing.Fat4allWoke up, got a money tag, swears a lotMemberOct 25, 2017107,200hereI miss pre-SotFS/pre-faith-nerf Dark Souls 2 lolMaxAugustMemberJan 28, 20183,529Most of the nerfs aren't that big a deal especially since in most Soul-likes you could have made it easier by just spending a half hour grinding somewhere or changing weapons. I did a post-nerf boss people complained about a lot again recently and actually had a much harder time just because of my build choice. Basically it doesn't matter.Notable exceptions include fixing actual mistakes like the Elden Ring instant death dogs and total BS like launch DS1 curse.RavelleMemberOct 31, 201719,859I don't enjoy the Souls Games for the challenge or bang face against a wall bosses, I enjoy them because of the world, characters and spectacle boss fights, if I can get passed them in an evening instead of a week I'm happy.OstinattoMemberOct 30, 20172,815just play Soul level 1 TofdMemberJul 8, 2018693I guess? Elden ring DLC's final boss is much easier now, but 90% of the game and bosses are still largely the same.jitteryzeitgeistMemberMay 26, 20238,391Forbidden LandsOGlol said:Just curious what people think about this. I've noticed a trend where a lot of newer souls-like games get post-launch balance patches that tone down some of the tougher bosses based on player feedback.If I buy a game on sale months later, am I basically getting the "easier" version of what earlier players struggled through?Click to expand...Click to shrink...Unless you consider yourself very good at these games, you will still get your head taken clean off.texhnolyzeShinra EmployeeMemberOct 25, 201725,658IndonesiaOGlol said:If I buy a game on sale months later, am I basically getting the "easier" version of what earlier players struggled through?Click to expand...Click to shrink...Well yeah, it's certainly a trend.If you're disturbed by it, you probably should start buying the games at launch.MonthOLDpickleMemberOct 25, 20176,151TaiwanDon't fall into the hard trap.Ashes of DreamsFallen Guardian of Unshakable ResolveMemberMay 22, 202019,078Kinda but it's never that big of a deal. It's usually like one or two bosses that needed a nerf. Sometimes it's fun to have claimed victory before a nerf but most of the "it was harder before" stuff are just memes. Anyone seriously trying to shame someone for doing it "after the patch" isn't worth paying attention to. Plus in most Souls games you can adjust the difficulty based on your level and items, so just stay lower to mid level and you'll probably have a harder time than most. Or like in Elden Ring, don't use summons or ashes or whatever.If it's really that big of a deal to you, could always buy physical on console and disconnect from the internet so you don't get the patch. Play the true 1.0 experience. lolYam'sMemberOct 27, 20174,337You forget that those patches also brought nerfs to some weapons/magics/exploits that made the games easier. I wouldn't worry about it and just enjoy the games as they are.TuckMemberOct 25, 20173,910Usually the nerfs are to transform frustrating, annoying difficulty into fun, enjoyable difficulty.The Gold HawkMemberJan 30, 20195,554YorkshireOGlol said:If I buy a game on sale months later, am I basically getting the "easier" version of what earlier players struggled through?Click to expand...Click to shrink...Just because someone who came before you struggled doesn't mean that you should have to.Your gameplay experience should not be diminished by thinking that someone else fought an unpatched or badly balanced boss before you.Hell, those patches also removed a bunch of buffs and nerfed skills, weapons or summons. If it makes you feel better, you can think if it as you are now playing a harder version because of those nerfs or you are now playing a more refined version.TsakiMemberFeb 12, 2019272OGlol said:Just curious what people think about this. I've noticed a trend where a lot of newer souls-like games get post-launch balance patches that tone down some of the tougher bosses based on player feedback.If I buy a game on sale months later, am I basically getting the "easier" version of what earlier players struggled through?Click to expand...Click to shrink...yes you could argue that if the patch is about making the boss easier and not fixing broken bullshit. Though you can still play the game in its original state if you buy the game physically and pause/cancel the updatetoadkarterMemberOct 2, 20202,426Bosses, and to an extent combat, are always the least interesting part of these games for me. I love Souls games for solitary, moody exploration and exceptional level design. So if there is some change to the difficulty it doesn't really affect my enjoyment of the game. kakteenMemberApr 9, 2024799As someone who does not give a fuck about the challenge in souls games, even after patch it will be difficult.Z-BrownieMemberNov 6, 20174,270i think you're playing the "correct game". Just because they were harder it doesn't mean they were "right".DoguiMemberOct 28, 201710,587BrazilDon't think devs patch their games to just make them easier and that's it. It's always about a frustrating element that gets in the way of the fair challenge.Like in Lies of P, rolling after falling in the floor was a mechanic that's essential to surviving, but it was available in a skill tree rather than by default. People were just "Well, we recommend getting this skill first of all because it's essential" and devs noticed it would make more sense to turn it into a default thing.No game stop being challenging after a patch afaik. Some try harder may think it so but they are already a veteran used to suffering through it, while this is meant for the new player.For the game designer, the current version is always the right way to play it.AstralSphereMemberFeb 10, 202112,598It's such a silly thing that a very, very vocal minority cares about, and they only even notice because they saw patch notes.It's always minor changes that move it more in line with what the developer intended in the first place, with most changes done to fix genuine issues with a fight. The most well-known From examples being Radahn, Smelter, and Gaius, and all were significantly better fights post-patch, and guess what... still hard as fuck. They just weren't filled with as much unintended bullshit.cvbasMemberOct 25, 20174,988BrazilIn 95% of the cases it's not a big deal at all, but I do think some nerfs do make the experience worse for those who are playing it post-patch.Elden Ring's Starscourge Radahn is a big example, imo. The original fight felt much better.tonyhawkspotater2MemberNov 4, 2023604Those who play the game with post-launch nerfs cheat, not only the game, but themselves. They didn't grow. They didn't improve. They took a shortcut and gained nothing. They experienced a hollow victory. Nothing was risked and nothing was gained. It's sad that they don't know the difference.But seriously though, Elden Ring had bosses like pre-nerf Starscourge Radahn who was an absolute menace to the first playthrough.. but then in the late game you had things like Hoarfrost stomp that was ridiculously OP that it broke the game, not even mentioning Rivers of Blood. So while the adjustments might make the game easier, they can also make skills/bosses/etc. work like they were originally intended.penny toastMemberFeb 20, 2024880hey congratulations on beating radahn! (after he was nerfed)so true, so truebut let this be door to deeper reflection: one size fits all difficulty = one size fits all balance (((bad)))MegaSackmanMemberOct 27, 201720,247ArgentinaI don't miss Radahn bullshit in Elden Ring. -.-BoopersMemberNov 1, 20203,954Vermont usaIf you're on PC, then there are probably mods you can download to restore that difficulty.IMO, I think it's worth it as long as you have fun. Easy mode, hard mode, pre- and post-nerf just focus on what's fun for you!PepsimanVsJoeMemberOct 26, 20176,745Of all the things cooking gamers' brains, "pre-nerfed bosses" is definitely up there. Duxxy3MemberOct 27, 201724,382USATime to break out the ole memeBy buying the the game months/years later you cheated not only the game, but yourself.You didn't grow.You didn't improve.You took a shortcut and gained nothing.You experienced a hollow victory. Nothing was risked and nothing was gained.It's sad that you don't know the difference.I'm obviously joking. Launch/near launch bosses can be broken as fuck. Don't worry about anything being watered down. They're all still hard gamesTabs2002MemberFeb 1, 20181,606Elden Ring has 100s of bosses. Only a couple got nerfed. Imo, the game is currently more challenging. Some weapons and summons made the game easier and those have been nerfedJaneMemberOct 17, 20181,576I beat SotE final boss twice before the nerf but haven't gotten to him yet again sincef, so I don't know how different it is. I think I heard they changed the cross slash move, which is fair since it basically always frame-trapped rolls and I'm not sure if that was intended. One of these days I'll play through the DLC again then I'll have an opinion.EeveaMemberSep 23, 2022202The biggest nerfs in souls games aren't to the bosses, it's to the weapons/spells. A lot of status effect cheese gets toned down significantly post launch.VexMemberOct 25, 201725,109Chaos2Frozen said:What's the concern?Click to expand...Click to shrink...It means that you didn't really beat the game because you weren't there during the true difficulty. So it's like missing out on getting a chance to beat the same game everybody else beat. It's a pride thing. Only a true warrior would understand. A super elite.OP OPOGlolMemberJun 4, 20181,879Chaos2Frozen said:What's the concern?Click to expand...Click to shrink...No concern! I just saw an update recently for Khazan nerfing a few bosses and it reminded me of the time Lies of P did it and both Radahn's in elden ring. Made me want to make a post asking general consensus.Joe WhiteMemberOct 27, 20173,482FinlandGames get patched for bugs, balancing issues and other problems, and those result better and feature complete games. Lies of P might have nerfed bosses, but it also removed OP builds that allowed one shotting those.hydrophilic attackCorrupted by VengeanceMemberOct 25, 201723,277Swedenif you play these games after the nerf patches, you cheat not only the game, but yourself. you don't grow. you don't improve. you take a shortcut and gain nothing. you experience a hollow victory. nothing was risked and nothing was gained. it's sad that you don't know the difference.NeoKnightMemberOct 28, 2017825OP. Obviously if you cannot play them at the hardest difficult before the nerf patched, the game is not worth it and should be death to you/everyone. "Dev kills own game at 11" /sDon't worry about it. It means its more fair. News outlets/fans calling these a "nerf" has always rubbed me the wrong way. Its like fighting games or in a MOBA, new characters are always made OP to start and tonned down later (i.e. balanced).LayZboyMemberDec 17, 2024342You can always do a RL1 +0 run if you want it to be harder. JawmuncherCrisis DinoModeratorOct 25, 201744,002Ibis IslandTruthfully, I won't complain about a game being made easier lol. Easier and Cheaper? Sign me up lol.-Pyromaniac-MemberOct 25, 20178,215As a hardcore souls like fan I never notice huge differences. I feel like these developers mostly get it. I usually buy the ones I like day one and I play them many times post various nerfs and they're usually still challenging, just less "frustrating".There have been occasions of pure neutering but not too bad overall.JawmuncherCrisis DinoModeratorOct 25, 201744,002Ibis Islandara said:I didn't know Lies of P got patches to make it a bit easier. I'll have to give it another try lol.Click to expand...Click to shrink...It's a good bit easier. Maybe it's placebo, but I summoned help on a particular boss and I think they buffed said summon spirit as it lasted the entire fight.While before, I remember them dying pretty quick.