Stencil Mailing His Own Damn Business Member Oct 30, 2017 13,315 USA I've never understood it. Tale as old as time, I know. I could probably just google it and find a dozen articles and previous threads about it, but I wanted to make my own thread about it. I remember never being interested in the series, I only had a PSX and then eventually a Gamecube. On PS1 I was playing JRPGs. But on Gamecube I wanted to try it all, it was such a quirky (and small) ecosystem of games. Twin Snakes really caught my eye, it looked cutting edge and I knew that people liked Metal Gear, so what the hell. I loved it! It made me want to try out the rest of the series! But then I read all these miserable gamers telling me how terrible it was, coupled with the fact that the *lore* of it all is just, immense, apparently, kind of soured me on continuing. So, in this day of our lord 2025, is Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes still as reviled as it was upon release? Was the hate undeserved? Should I try more MGS games? Enlighten me. edit: I see all you haters just plunking your little votes in. Come on, tell me why you hate it! I want to LEARN!  Threadkular Member Dec 29, 2017 2,653 I never played it, but I was on the old message board and Dennis Dyack was kind of… a lot. It led me to stay away from Silicon Knights games. He was sort of right about one console future though.  Wrexis Member Nov 4, 2017 28,923 Hate is a strong word. I dislike it. I feel the MGS2 enhancements make the game stupidly easy, and the cutscenes are insanely over the top. I can buy Snake chucking a grenade into a tank in MGS1, I can't buy him jumping on a missile from a Hind-D in Twin Snakes. I also prefer the dialogue from the original game, accents and original Ninja voice actor ftw.  Darkwing-Buck Member Oct 25, 2017 31,613 Los Angeles, CA The first person shooting made it super easy and the tone/cutscenes were anime-fied compared to the grounded original. I do get people preferring the OG. That said, I loved it too lol and I grew up with that version over the PS1 original which was more from my older brother's time.  Mandos Member Nov 27, 2017 38,804 Some think accepting it means they've admitted the whole series is camp instead of a serious deal(it's not, it's all camp! Taking it serious is silly in the first place) Tho there are some major presentation changes that definitely are gonna be taste dependent, but I've never managed to fully beat either so I'm not a full authority  Jonathan Lanza "I've made a Gigantic mistake" Member Feb 8, 2019 8,684 - Worse voice actors - Worse visuals - MGS2 controls do not work with the layout of Shadow Moses as it renders the game far too easy Simple as  UraMallas Member Nov 1, 2017 24,249 United States It's the only one I like because it clearly understands it a video game ass video game.   KarmaCow Member Oct 25, 2017 10,007 The short of it is that the MGS2 mechanics are thoughtlessly added to the game and the cutscenes are too over the top ridiculous even for MGS. And yes, before anyone says it, I know Kojima is the one who pushed for the cutscene direction. I think especially now that PS1 graphics are in vogue as distinct artstyle, MGS1 holds up better.  Kard8p3 Member Oct 25, 2017 7,706 its the superior MGS1 tbh, as much crazy shit happens later on it fits right in   TechnoSyndro Member May 15, 2019 3,275 It's the perfect example of how just plopping new mechanics into an older game doesn't automatically make it "better."   Caracalamity Member Sep 19, 2024 63 USA The gameplay wasn't tuned or adjusted for the MGS2 style first person gameplay and it showed. The AI basically didn't even react while the player got a massive new way to stomp the game into the ground game and it felt very broken and incomplete from a mechanical point of view. Like you were playing an alpha where the enemies didn't react to half the things they should have. And the tradeoff was just to watch snake do really dumb michael bay stuff like doing backflips off of missiles that no one asked for.   DeliciousSunnyD! Member Oct 31, 2017 10,984 The original Metal Gear Solid was played mostly serious with a hint of goofiness. Twin Snakes is played mostly goofy with a hint of seriousness. I prefer the art, the gameplay, and the presentation of the original game by far. By far.   Transistor This isn't going to go the way you think Administrator Oct 25, 2017 41,372 Washington, D.C. Wrexis said: Hate is a strong word. I dislike it. I feel the MGS2 enhancements make the game stupidly easy, and the cutscenes are insanely over the top. I can buy Snake chucking a grenade into a tank in MGS1, I can't buy him jumping on a missile from a Hind-D in Twin Snakes. I also prefer the dialogue from the original game, accents and original Ninja voice actor ftw. Click to expand... Click to shrink... This is me.   intradictus Member Sep 17, 2023 554 Wrexis said: Hate is a strong word. I dislike it. I feel the MGS2 enhancements make the game stupidly easy, and the cutscenes are insanely over the top. I can buy Snake chucking a grenade into a tank in MGS1, I can't buy him jumping on a missile from a Hind-D in Twin Snakes. I also prefer the dialogue from the original game, accents and original Ninja voice actor ftw. Click to expand... Click to shrink... All this here, plus Dennis Dyack   PallasKitten Member Jul 11, 2022 1,738 I played it for the first time back in 2020. I didn't hate it, but it just felt like a worse version of MGS1. Sure, graphics are better, but the tone just feels... Off. Not to mention, I'm not sure if it was just me, but the game felt insanely dark (and there were no brightness options, if I remember correctly). As others have said already, it also just felt incredibly over the top, even for Metal Gear standards. Gameplay wise it also just didn't feel "right". Same for the voice acting, presentation, everything, really. There wasn't anything about it that made me prefer it to the original PS1 game, and I can't say I think I'll ever have the desire to revisit it, whereas I can see myself replaying the PS1 version again at some point.  Barrel Cannon It's Pronounced "Aerith" The Fallen Oct 25, 2017 11,041 Kojima had a heavy part to play in twin snakes being tonally the way it was. It never bothered me too much because I view it as a great alternative way to play the game instead of as a definitive way. It fumbled some things but improved it in so many ways that I'm able to accept its flaws.   Beary Jams Member Nov 5, 2017 494 Portland, OR I absolutely love Twin Snakes but I'm sure it's because I played it before the original. I do think people are weirdly overly critical of the choreography in the cutscenes. I'll give you that Snake back flipping off a rocket is pretty silly, but people act like it goes beyond the wacky shit Kojima would do when Kojima's next game MGS3 had a woman ride a motorcycle up a mans body. I get some of the criticism around music, and definitely dislike the lower usage of the Best is Yet to Come throughout the game, but my goodness the individual boss themes is such a big upgrade for me. Psycho Mantis and the Ninja for me greatly benefit from their fights having their own unique music. I'll also 100% stand by the voice acting in Twin Snakes being better than the original.   Ridley327 Member Oct 25, 2017 15,683 Georgia (the state, not the country) To be honest, TTS has been out of circulation for so long that you really can't get a definitive opinion on it anymore as there's just too few folks that can really go to bat or swing at it in the numbers to reach a consensus. This could eventually be solved if Konami works something out with Nintendo about possibly including it on a future collection with other Metal Gear titles or working out to have it included on GCN NSO on Switch 2 if the exclusivity still matters to them, but it's kind of stuck in limbo right now. Personally speaking, I found it to be a pretty underwhelming remake all around as it seemed to be a game that wanted to be as faithful as humanly possible but had a hard time really justifying being the ideal way to experience that story. Yes, it has better graphics on the whole and the MGS2 mechanics do make things play a bit smoother on average, but it just never snapped the way the PS1 original did and the design of MGS1 made it so that the MGS2 mechanics just never felt quite right for the game, on top of not being nearly as robust as they were in MGS2 since that was designed from the bottom-up around them. The response to the cutscenes always felt really silly in light of just how goddamned unhinged the series was starting to get anyway in that department (like, there's no one who can call the missile hopping in TTS absurd and then be perfectly fine with EVA's bike-fu or fighting a goddamned bee man in MGS3 later in the year), but I will say that the soundtrack and VO were both equally major downgrades from the original game that I don't think you'll find too many people disagreeing with. It doesn't help that it came off the heels of two supremely well received remakes in Resident Evil and Metroid: Zero Mission, which weren't afraid to update the gameplay on top of making bolder changes, so it was always going to come up short as a result of being too safe in comparison.  Zips Member Oct 25, 2017 4,040 It's... fine. I don't hate it, but I also don't prefer it over the original either. The cutscenes were just way too over the top, even by MGS standards.  Crossing Eden Member Oct 26, 2017 58,214 OP I believe it was because backporting MGS2's features into MGS1 sort of compromised a lot of the original game's challenges. And in general people didn't agree with the new cutscene director's choices even though Kojima hired the guy in the first place and encouraged him not to be faithful but to do what he's good at cinema wise. Darkwing-Buck said: The first person shooting made it super easy and the tone/cutscenes were anime-fied compared to the grounded original. Click to expand... Click to shrink...   spookyduzt Drive-In Mutant The Fallen Oct 25, 2017 11,828 It was made during a time when everyone thought Ryuhei Kitamura was hotshit, which was unfortunately before everyone realized he was just hot shit.   ThereAreFourNaan Member Nov 8, 2017 14,966 It's a bunch of sore losers who are AGAINST too human.   Vourlis Member Aug 14, 2022 5,757 United States The cutscenes, VA, and music, are just mostly a massive downgrade. The gameplay is far too easy. They needed to better balance the difficulty on it.  BasilZero Member Oct 25, 2017 39,746 Omni I wouldnt mind playing it again, hopefully it becomes playable in the future on modern hardware in some form whether its NSO GCN or ports/remasters. I love MGS2 - my favorite one in the series in terms of design, visuals and gameplay.  Silverhand Member Oct 26, 2023 2,923 I like it. I think it puts the game more in line with Kojima's desire for over-the-topness   Transistor This isn't going to go the way you think Administrator Oct 25, 2017 41,372 Washington, D.C. ThereAreFourNaan said: It's a bunch of sore losers who are AGAINST too human. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Better Late Than Never - Penny Arcade Videogaming-related online strip by Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins. Includes news and commentary. www.penny-arcade.com Too Human was trash  eraFROMAN One Winged Slayer Member Mar 12, 2019 3,454 Hating Twin Snakes is wasted energy, its a comedy version of MGS1 that you can play on GameCube It's completely fine and I really like it  Wrexis Member Nov 4, 2017 28,923 Beary Jams said: people act like it goes beyond the wacky shit Kojima would do when Kojima's next game MGS3 had a woman ride a motorcycle up a mans body. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Ridley327 said: (like, there's no one who can call the missile hopping in TTS absurd and then be perfectly fine with EVA's bike-fu or fighting a goddamned bee man in MGS3 later in the year), but I will say that the soundtrack and VO were both equally major downgrades from the original game that I don't think you'll find too many people disagreeing with. It doesn't help that it came off the heels of two supremely well received remakes in Resident Evil and Metroid: Zero Mission, which weren't afraid to update the gameplay on top of making bolder changes, so it was always going to come up short as a result of being too safe in comparison. Click to expand... Click to shrink... So here's the thing - I don't like those scenes either. As the series went on the cutscenes got more and more crazier and I think they lost a certain feel that was present in MGS1 and MGS2. Do the Twin Snakes scenes fit the series? Sure. Do they fit MGS up until that point? No.  RagnarokX Member Oct 26, 2017 17,652 1. First person makes the game piss easy. 2. The voice acting is worse. 3. The music is worse. 4. The cutscenses are worse.  WhiteRabbitEXE Member Oct 25, 2017 14,818 Arizona Every time I see people complaining about how over the top it is, I'm like… … have you… … have you seen the rest of the franchise?  ShroudOfFate One Winged Slayer Member Oct 30, 2017 1,821 It's awful. It is the jumping the shark (or missile as it were) moment for the series. Is MGS 100% grounded? No but Snake/Big Boss aren't the ones riding missiles. That gets saved for the cyborgs which makes some sense. They went over the top and it's deeply stupid. From a gameplay standpoint, the new camera completely breaks the game. They didn't alter any of the enemy behavior to be able to counter the new controls and makes the game so much easier. It's nice to be able to see Shadow Moses in its heyday in higher fidelity though.  mute ▲ Legend ▲ Member Oct 25, 2017 29,205 I've tried starting games and just found it off putting for some reason. WhiteRabbitEXE said: Every time I see people complaining about how over the top it is, I'm like… … have you… … have you seen the rest of the franchise? Click to expand... Click to shrink... I mean I don't feel too great about it there either.   -JD- Avenger Oct 27, 2017 4,144 It's peak early 2000s post-Matrix cinematic excess. bullet time, extreme flips, missile jumping, etc   TechnoSyndro Member May 15, 2019 3,275 WhiteRabbitEXE said: Every time I see people complaining about how over the top it is, I'm like… … have you… … have you seen the rest of the franchise? Click to expand... Click to shrink... please name a similar feat solid snake performs in one of the other games to kick-flipping off of a missile   Timu Member Oct 25, 2017 18,344 Yeah I guess they compare it to the original for why it's hated. Funny enough it's the 1st MGS game I played.  Roliq ▲ Legend ▲ Member Sep 23, 2018 7,248 The arguments about the over the top cutscenes are funny now considering the shit Raiden does   Junker Member Oct 27, 2017 89 It was my intro to Metal Gear Solid because I never owned a PlayStation, only an N64. I was blown away and bought a PS2 soon after with my first paycheck from my first job to play MGS2 before Snake Eater came out. I played the original MGS eventually and yeah it's better but Twin Snakes holds a special place.   Extra Sauce Member Oct 27, 2017 6,972 if you could bottle what makes Hideo Kojima one of the most celebrated video game auteurs in the history of the medium and sell it, then Twin Snakes would be as beloved as the original Metal Gear Solid. but you can't.  TheWooniestWoona Member Oct 27, 2017 7,271 I think the PS1 original looks better. Yeah it's not better on a technical level, but I find it more pleasing to look at.  Ridley327 Member Oct 25, 2017 15,683 Georgia (the state, not the country) TechnoSyndro said: please name a similar feat solid snake performs in one of the other games to kick-flipping off of a missile Click to expand... Click to shrink... I mean, he literally opens MGS2 by jumping off of a bridge in near hurricane-level amounts of downpour onto a moving tanker and manages to hit a perfect hero pose once he lands, survives said tanker being ripped apart when a giant robot escapes, and ends the game ripping off his handcuffs with nothing but his own determination to jump one more time after said robot in the middle of an ocean, and somehow manages to make it back to NYC to give Raiden a pep talk. Like, I get you guys like Snake as a protagonist and all that, but he's always been incredibly anime.  Crushed Member Oct 25, 2017 8,139 One of the things that never gets brought up is that they did actually change some of the standard enemy AI: the riot guards that appear on an alert are far more aggressive and honestly more threatening than nearly every other regular guards in the series because you barely have any more movement options to avoid them and they're more lethal in a head on fight. Extreme is genuinely really hard, like European Extreme levels! Another big reason is that, beneath genuine complaints about broken boss battles, or the funky cutscenes, or the music changes, is that Sony console warriors circa 2003/04 were fucking furious that a Metal Gear game wasn't coming to PlayStation, and would openly complain that they were owed it and Kiddy Kidtendo was stealing it from them for their Kiddy LameCube   Mr. Keith Member Oct 31, 2017 1,971 I adored it when I first played it, and it wasn't until I started reading comments on the internet that I found out people thought it was a bad remake. People go and say MGS: Twin Snakes is too anime and then in the same breath worship the ground MGS4 walks on.  Quinton Staff Writer at TheGamer Verified Oct 25, 2017 23,025 Midgar, With Love I don't like its sterility. I don't care for its approach to cutscene choreography.   SolidSnakex Member Oct 25, 2017 27,682 Ridley327 said: I mean, he literally opens MGS2 by jumping off of a bridge in near hurricane-level amounts of downpour onto a moving tanker and manages to hit a perfect hero pose once he lands, survives said tanker being ripped apart when a giant robot escapes, and ends the game ripping off his handcuffs with nothing but his own determination to jump one more time after said robot in the middle of an ocean, and somehow manages to make it back to NYC to give Raiden a pep talk. Like, I get you guys like Snake as a protagonist and all that, but he's always been incredibly anime. Click to expand... Click to shrink... He bungee jumps off the bridge and uses the reverse momentum to kick himself onto the tanker View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpRCSU0lXZ0 Yeah, it's obviously over the top. But there's a huge difference between that and kickflipping a missile.  Caracalamity Member Sep 19, 2024 63 USA Mr. Keith said: People go and say MGS: Twin Snakes is too anime and then in the same breath worship the ground MGS4 walks on. Click to expand... Click to shrink... ehhh. By MGS4 a lot of people thought the franchise had gotten really stupid and weren't happy with the direction it went. People who didn't like them backporting the tone of the newer metal gears into solid generally were not big MGS4 fans.  Transistor This isn't going to go the way you think Administrator Oct 25, 2017 41,372 Washington, D.C. Mr. Keith said: People go and say MGS: Twin Snakes is too anime and then in the same breath worship the ground MGS4 walks on. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I don't like Twin Snakes and I don't like MGS4   Belphegor Member Sep 24, 2021 1,371 It was okay. the hate is overblown. some of the hate is probably console warrior stuff for being a GC exclusive at the time.   ThereAreFourNaan Member Nov 8, 2017 14,966 Ridley327 said: I mean, he literally opens MGS2 by jumping off of a bridge in near hurricane-level amounts of downpour onto a moving tanker and manages to hit a perfect hero pose once he lands, survives said tanker being ripped apart when a giant robot escapes, and ends the game ripping off his handcuffs with nothing but his own determination to jump one more time after said robot in the middle of an ocean, and somehow manages to make it back to NYC to give Raiden a pep talk. Like, I get you guys like Snake as a protagonist and all that, but he's always been incredibly anime. Click to expand... Click to shrink... IMO it's giving the game away to frame it as "show another example where he is this unrealistically acrobatic" because I think everyone is aware that if we broadened that to "show another example where he is this unrealistic" it's trivially easy to find them.  Zebesian-X Member Dec 3, 2018 24,966 I think it'd be easier to appreciate as an alternate take now that MGS1 is widely available everywhere. Hopefully Konami doesn't ignore it in the Master Collection   colorboy Member Apr 5, 2025 98 It's the most metal gear game of the metal gear games.