Jaredus Member Jan 19, 2025 189 Let's be clear: the Creation Engine is incredible. It enables crafted worlds with true persistence : every NPC has a name, a life, a home, a schedule; the player can pick up and interact with almost anything. Every object has weight, physics, value. You've got dungeons, towns, dozens of factions, romance systems, crimes and prisons...and on top of all that, it's the most modder-friendly engines out there. This engine is pure magic. It's probably the reason why Skyrim is still the best-selling and most acclaimed RPG of all time, and why even a dumb Oblivion remaster can outperform a lot of modern AAA titles. The Creation Engine is probably the main reason why Skyrim has no competitors. Given its massive success, you'd expect thousands of copycats to have emerged over the past 15 years But that magic comes at a price: games using this engine are built out of compartmentalized "cells," and transitioning between them requires loading screens. That's always been the case, but Starfield made it more obvious than before. Even in the Oblivion remaster, it gets exhausting having to load every single room in some small interiors. (Take the Dark Brotherhood, for example—you need to sit through three loading screens just to enter: the abandoned house, the basement, then the secret door.) Here's my question: Do you think Bethesda is aware of the issue, and if so, is it technically possible for The Elder Scrolls VI to have no loading screens at all—aside from fast travel or the initial game launch, like in GTA? Could the entire map be one seamless, continuous world without separate cells?  Last edited: 59 minutes ago Vertpin Member Oct 27, 2017 6,693 Only flaw?   vacantseas Member Oct 27, 2017 2,115 No!   Wallace Member Oct 25, 2017 27,778 Midwest *loading answer I don't think so  Shaman Member Jan 18, 2024 3,500 Only flaw is not it. It has a lot of flaws and that's only one of them. The engine is beautiful I can't lie but I feel they can still improve it The answer for now is no until proved otherwise  ragolliangatan Legendary Uncle Works at Nintendo Member Aug 31, 2019 6,322 Jaredus said: Let's be clear: the Creation Engine is incredible. It enables crafted worlds with true persistence : every NPC has a name, a life, a home, a schedule; the player can pick up and interact with almost anything. Every object has weight, physics, value. You've got dungeons, towns, dozens of factions, romance systems, crimes and prisons...and on top of all that, it's the most modder-friendly engines out there. This engine is pure magic. It's probably the reason why Skyrim is still the best-selling and most acclaimed RPG of all time, and why even a dumb Oblivion remaster can outperform a lot of modern AAA titles. But that magic comes at a price: games using this engine are built out of compartmentalized "cells," and transitioning between them requires loading screens. That's always been the case, but Starfield made it more obvious than before. Even in the Oblivion remaster, it gets exhausting having to load every single room in some small interiors. (Take the Dark Brotherhood, for example—you need to sit through three loading screens just to enter: the abandoned house, the basement, then the secret door.) Here's my question: Do you think Bethesda is aware of the issue, and if so, is it technically possible for The Elder Scrolls VI to have no loading screens at all—aside from fast travel or the initial game launch, like in GTA? Could the entire map be one seamless, continuous world without separate cells? Click to expand... Click to shrink... they'll likely be able to reduce the amount of loading screens but some of the loading is to manage the persistence of objects in the world and and manage the number of entities loaded at a given time, as well as allow them to mess with the scale of interiors/amount of interiors. BGS are clearly aware of the complaints regarding the seperate loading.  BAW Member Oct 27, 2017 2,112 That engine is crap   MrTharne Member May 26, 2023 637   CRIMSON-XIII Member Oct 25, 2017 6,999 Chicago, IL I thought the major thing was performance and also the third person walking animations.   pg2g Member Dec 18, 2018 6,855 They are surely aware of the flaw. I don't see why they can't start to stream in a cell sooner though, so it's basically ready when you hit that button.   Max|Payne Member Oct 27, 2017 9,677 Portugal Ex-Bethesda Veteran Explains Why Its Games Like Elder Scrolls, Fallout, and Starfield Will Always Have Loading Screens - IGN One former Bethesda developer has cautioned that loading screens will probably always be a part of its games because of the way they're designed. Here's why. www.ign.com   PlanetSmasher The Abominable Showman Member Oct 25, 2017 131,901 It's not going to happen. As long as BGS is still fixated on "you can pick up 300 spoons and store them somewhere and they'll stay there forever until you move them" as a key selling point for their engine they're going to have to instance shit.   Jedi2016 Member Oct 27, 2017 19,886 Nope.   PetitBum Member Apr 18, 2024 484 SpottieO Member Oct 25, 2017 12,839 Aren't there mods that eliminate a number of loading screens for Skyrim? I imagine they'll find ways to cut back but not fully remove   Greywaren Member Jul 16, 2019 12,879 Spain I don't think it's a "flaw", but a conscious design choice due to how the engine works. It has to handle so much stuff at the same time, not having loading screens would probably tank performance. Instances are a must. They may be able to reduce the amount of loading screens or how long it takes to load, but they will be there.  Mobius and Pet Octopus Member Oct 25, 2017 16,545 That's a lot of claims about the engine lol... many I can't imagine are either true or provably true, but the biggest and most obvious one of all is claiming it only has a single flaw.   snausages Member Feb 12, 2018 12,219 I was sort of shocked how slow the Oblivion remaster loading screens feel. Obviously faster than they would have in 2006 but the remaster is a lot slower than the 2006 version played now. Honestly, give us Resident Evil style loading screens. It's time to bring them back, I always liked them. I find it interesting how much people dunk on creation engine tbh, I don't have major complaints with it really. It's the game design of their most recent games that I grumble about  Moose Prophet of Truth - Hero of Bowerstone Member Oct 25, 2017 10,825 CRIMSON-XIII said: I thought the major thing was performance and also the third person walking animations. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Performance is fine for the most part. Starfield started out shitty mostly on Intel CPUs and Nvidia cards (I have both) but they optimized that. Oblivion is a Frankenstein of Gamebryo and Unreal so it's an odd case. Third person animations is really their fault not the engine. Mods have shown you can do a lot better. I'd say the most annoying thing is grass draw distance and how close lods are. If they could improve upon that I'd be happy. Even in Starfield you can see where the grass stops loading with the clear line.  RazieltheShifter Member Jul 26, 2019 292 If they don't get rid of object permanence we will keep seeing it.   OP OP Jaredus Member Jan 19, 2025 189 Max|Payne said: Ex-Bethesda Veteran Explains Why Its Games Like Elder Scrolls, Fallout, and Starfield Will Always Have Loading Screens - IGN One former Bethesda developer has cautioned that loading screens will probably always be a part of its games because of the way they're designed. Here's why. www.ign.com Click to expand... Click to shrink... Thank you, i did not see that. "Everybody who complains about them assumes that it's done because we're lazy or we don't want to follow the modern thinking on stuff," Nesmith said. "The reality is the Bethesda games are so detailed and so graphics intensive… you just can't have both present at the same time." "I can't have the interiors of all these places loaded at the same time as the exteriors," Nesmith continued. "That's just not an option. And all the fancy tricks for streaming and loading and all that, you end up with hitching. So you're actually better off stopping the game briefly, doing a loading screen and then continuing on. "If you make a game that has less going on, it's a tighter experience and not a [true] open-world experience. So it's just one of those necessary evils, as it were, it's not that anybody at Bethesda ever wanted to do it. We just didn't have a choice, really, if the game was going to have the experience we wanted it to have." Nesmith said the use of loading screens in Bethesda's RPGs have been "a necessary bane of the existence of Bethesda since time immemorial." Click to expand... Click to shrink...   PieGB Member Jun 11, 2024 869 The problem with Starfield was the sheer amount of load screens and the feeling that there wasn't really an over world because space just can't compare to the open world of oblivion and Skyrim. It just became fast travel the game with no reason to explore. I think short loading screens are totally fine and preferable to them abandoning their simulation systems.   OP OP Jaredus Member Jan 19, 2025 189 SpottieO said: Aren't there mods that eliminate a number of loading screens for Skyrim? I imagine they'll find ways to cut back but not fully remove Click to expand... Click to shrink... Yes View: https://youtu.be/dfic7JuNY9E?si=xBM-UuZZpGV8BGIp That makes me even more curious, modders have managed to do it, but Bethesda says it's not possible  Cantaim Member Oct 25, 2017 35,000 The Stussining This is gonna bring out a lot of people who don't know things about game engines and who will have very strong opinions on things they don't understand I feel.   Seanlole Member Oct 25, 2017 185 Are you really SURE it's the only flaw? And the awnser for your question is No.  Bishop89 What Are Ya' Selling? Member Oct 25, 2017 42,413 Melbourne, Australia I assume this thread is in response to this  disparate Member Oct 25, 2017 10,575 BAW said: That engine is crap Click to expand... Click to shrink... There don't seem to be any better ones for what the games do   snausages Member Feb 12, 2018 12,219 Yeah, people will cite things like Cyberpunk but the specific lack of BGS game system in CDPR games are why I don't find them nearly as immersive. I like that the game maintains state, and that NPCs have routines. It makes it feel much more like a real place to me than it being a seamless world would.   Sir Hound Member Oct 28, 2017 2,496 Honestly I'd take literally the fidelity of Skyrim for TES6 in exchange for removing loading screens.   Pyro God help us the mods are making weekend threads Member Jul 30, 2018 18,642 United States (no)   Juraash Member Oct 25, 2017 6,798 Definitely not its only flaw, also they 10000% wont overcome it in VI.   Doskoi Panda One Winged Slayer Member Oct 27, 2017 17,105 Cantaim said: This is gonna bring out a lot of people who don't know things about game engines and who will have very strong opinions on things they don't understand I feel. Click to expand... Click to shrink... It already has lol   Nameless Member Oct 25, 2017 17,166 Yeah it's pretty noticeable in OblivionR coming off 150hrs of KCD2 earlier this year where the the only real load screen while exploring occurs when travelling between the two maps. Otherwise it's impressively seamless given the number of interiors, underground areas, etc...   AuthenticM Son Altesse Sérénissime The Fallen Oct 25, 2017 34,950 It should. Almost two decades after Skyrim, TES VI's world should be seamless. It's the way to go to make the game properly impressive.   Syne It's Pronounced "Aerith" Member Feb 5, 2023 9,639 UK   Green Member Oct 27, 2017 7,624 I don't care about loading screens. Who cares   canderous Prophet of Truth Member Jun 12, 2020 10,121 Canada Well, there was that 4chan leak yesterday that said they have removed loading screens when going into cities/towns. lol But seriously I think it's something they'll improve, especially after Starfield feedback. I personally never minded it as a trade off. 40+ hours into Oblivion Remastered again and it hasn't bothered me. BAW said: That engine is crap Click to expand... Click to shrink... Here, you dropped this   Flame Lord Member Oct 26, 2017 3,662 When did we reach the conclusion that loading screens are inherently bad? The way ES work, I can't imagine you wouldn't have a loading screen at least going in a dungeon. I imagine having everything loaded at once would make it hard to have any type I'd complex dungeon.   Darkstorne Member Oct 26, 2017 8,020 England I think it's absolutely possible. 1) As others have said, mods already do some of this. Starfield has an open Neon mod too, that makes all the interior stores part of the main Neon hub rather than having their own load doors (always hated how some shops have load doors and others don't in that game. At least be consistent). 2) The procedural POI spawning system can help a lot with this. Not for randomization - they can still hand place. But because it allows their devs to work on fully open dungeons but still in separate world chunks while they're being worked on, and then use the tech to blend those chunks seamlessly into the landscape when ready. So it's still retaining the advantage that loading screens to separate cells provided for the dev process. Whether it happens... I dunno. But I'm optimistic. I think Bethesda typically succeed more than they fail, and are pretty damn ambitious with the goals they set themselves. It's just a question of whether this is a goal they're setting.  FantasticToma Member Sep 21, 2024 2,223 Germany This thread scares me. Is it common expectations that even TES 6 will still have loading screens when entering/exiting buildings?!   XaviConcept Art Director for Videogames Verified Oct 25, 2017 6,403 … only flaw? Ok bud.  Skoje Member Oct 26, 2017 1,843 Cantaim said: This is gonna bring out a lot of people who don't know things about game engines and who will have very strong opinions on things they don't understand I feel. Click to expand... Click to shrink... LOL. How is this ANY different from ANY other topic on the internet?   Transistor This isn't going to go the way you think Administrator Oct 25, 2017 41,398 Washington, D.C. God help us all if TES6 has even half the loading screens of Starfield   pg2g Member Dec 18, 2018 6,855 Skoje said: LOL. How is this ANY different from ANY other topic on the internet? Click to expand... Click to shrink... All they had to do was not say "only flaw" lol  Hrothgar Member Nov 6, 2017 926 Reading the tips on the loading screens is half the gameplay! Are you asking Bethesda to deprive us of that?   7thFloor Member Oct 27, 2017 7,064 U.S. snausages said: I was sort of shocked how slow the Oblivion remaster loading screens feel. Obviously faster than they would have in 2006 but the remaster is a lot slower than the 2006 version played now. Click to expand... Click to shrink... That must depend on your hardware because they're like 2 seconds for me   AuthenticM Son Altesse Sérénissime The Fallen Oct 25, 2017 34,950 Transistor said: God help us all if TES6 has even half the loading screens of Starfield Click to expand... Click to shrink... I haven't played Starfield. Are you saying it's worse than in Skyrim or Fallout 4?   Transistor This isn't going to go the way you think Administrator Oct 25, 2017 41,398 Washington, D.C. AuthenticM said: I haven't played Starfield. Are you saying it's worse than in Skyrim or Fallout 4? Click to expand... Click to shrink... So much worse. Starfield is basically "loading screen: the game"   Vanta Aurelius Member Oct 27, 2017 4,279 ATL Max|Payne said: Ex-Bethesda Veteran Explains Why Its Games Like Elder Scrolls, Fallout, and Starfield Will Always Have Loading Screens - IGN One former Bethesda developer has cautioned that loading screens will probably always be a part of its games because of the way they're designed. Here's why. www.ign.com Click to expand... Click to shrink... It's funny reading about the former Bethesda dev talking about hitching, and uneven performance, being a big detriment to a highly simulated open world with persistence. These issues plague open world UE5 games currently haha. I would love to see how CDPR's work in UE5 rectifies these issues. They've made massive strides with their Red Engine imo. I do think Bethesda studios has the chops to solve those problems, but it would likely take redesigning the engine from scratch with those explicit requirements in mind, along with a lot of research, which would likely take a decade plus I'm guessing?  7thFloor Member Oct 27, 2017 7,064 U.S. AuthenticM said: I haven't played Starfield. Are you saying it's worse than in Skyrim or Fallout 4? Click to expand... Click to shrink... It is worse because there's a loading screen to leave a planet's surface, then to change solar systems (sometimes you even have to do this more than once for long trips), then to go to a planet's surface again. Just based on how the game is structured, TES VI should have significantly less loading