• AI enables shift from enablement to strategic leadership

    CIOs and business leaders know they’re sitting on a goldmine of business data. And while traditional tools such as business intelligence platforms and statistical analysis software can effectively surface insights from the collated data resources, doing so quickly, in real-time and at scale remains an unsolved challenge.Enterprise AI, when deployed responsibly and at scale, can turn these bottlenecks into opportunities. Acting quickly on data, even ‘live’, is one of the technology’s abilities, as is scalability: AI can process large amounts of information from disparate sources almost as easily as it can summarize a one-page spreadsheet.But deploying an AI solution in the modern enterprise isn’t simple. It takes structure, trust and the right talent. Along with the practical implementation challenges, using AI brings its own challenges, such as data governance, the need to impose guardrails on AI responses and training data, and persistent staffing issues.We met with Rani Radhakrishnan, PwC Principal, Technology Managed Services – AI, Data Analytics and Insights, to talk candidly about what’s working — and what’s holding back CIOs in their AI journey. We spoke ahead of her speaking engagement at TechEx AI & Big Data Expo North America, June 4 and 5, at the Santa Clara Convention Center.Rani is especially attuned to some of the governance, data privacy and sovereignty issues that face enterprises, having spent many years in her career working with numerous clients in the health sector — an area where issues like privacy, data oversight and above all data accuracy are make-or-break aspects of technology deployments.“It’s not enough to just have a prompt engineer or a Python developer. … You still need the human in the loop to curate the right training data sets, review and address any bias in the outputs.” —Rani Radhakrishnan, PwCFrom support to strategy: shifting expectations for AIRani said that there’s a growing enthusiasm from PwC’s clients for AI-powered managed services that can provide both business insights in every sector, and for the technology to be used more proactively, in so-called agentic roles where agents can independently act on data and user input; where autonomous AI agents can take action based on interactions with humans, access to data resources and automation.For example, PwC’s agent OS is a modular AI platform that connects systems and scales intelligent agents into workflows, many times faster than traditional computing methods. It’s an example of how PwC responds to the demand for AI from its clients, many of whom see the potential of this new technology, but lack the in-house expertise and staff to act on their needs.Depending on the sector of the organization, the interest in AI can come from many different places in the business. Proactive monitoring of physical or digital systems; predictive maintenance in manufacturing or engineering; or cost efficiencies won by automation in complex, customer-facing environments, are just a few examples.But regardless of where AI can bring value, most companies don’t yet have in-house the range of skills and people necessary for effective AI deployment — or at least, deployments that achieve ROI and don’t come with significant risk.“It’s not enough to just have a prompt engineer or a Python developer,” Rani said. “You’ve got to put all of these together in a very structured manner, and you still need the human in the loop to curate the right training data sets, review and address any bias in the outputs.”Cleaning house: the data challenge behind AIRani says that effective AI implementations need a mix of technical skills — data engineering, data science, prompt engineering — in combination with an organization’s domain expertise. Internal domain expertise can define the right outcomes, and technical staff can cover the responsible AI practices, like data collation and governance, and confirm that AI systems work responsibly and within company guidelines.“In order to get the most value out of AI, an organization has to get the underlying data right,” she said. “I don’t know of a single company that says its data is in great shape … you’ve got to get it into the right structure and normalize it properly so you can query, analyze, and annotate it and identify emerging trends.”Part of the work enterprises have to put in for effective AI use is the observation for and correction of bias — in both output of AI systems and in the analysis of potential bias inherent in training and operational data.It’s important that as part of the underlying architecture of AI systems, teams apply stringent data sanitization, normalization, and data annotation processes. The latter requires “a lot of human effort,” Rani said, and the skilled personnel required are among the new breed of data professionals that are beginning to emerge.If data and personnel challenges can be overcome, then the feedback loop makes the possible outcomes from generative AI really valuable, Rani said. “Now you have an opportunity with AI prompts to go back and refine the answer that you get. And that’s what makes it so unique and so valuable because now you’re training the model to answer the questions the way you want them answered.”For CIOs, the shift isn’t just about tech enablement. It’s about integrating AI into enterprise architecture, aligning with business strategy, and managing the governance risks that come with scale. CIOs are becoming AI stewards — architecting not just systems, but trust and transformation.ConclusionIt’s only been a few years since AI emerged from its roots in academic computer science research, so it’s understandable that today’s enterprise organizations are, to a certain extent, feeling their way towards realizing AI’s potential.But a new playbook is emerging — one that helps CIOs access the value held in their data reserves, in business strategy, operational improvement, customer-facing experiences and a dozen more areas of the business.As a company that’s steeped in experience with clients large and small from all over the world, PwC is one of the leading choices that decision-makers turn to, to begin or rationalize and direct their existing AI journeys.Explore how PwC is helping CIOs embed AI into core operations, and see Rani’s latest insights at the June TechEx AI & Big Data Expo North America.
    #enables #shift #enablement #strategic #leadership
    AI enables shift from enablement to strategic leadership
    CIOs and business leaders know they’re sitting on a goldmine of business data. And while traditional tools such as business intelligence platforms and statistical analysis software can effectively surface insights from the collated data resources, doing so quickly, in real-time and at scale remains an unsolved challenge.Enterprise AI, when deployed responsibly and at scale, can turn these bottlenecks into opportunities. Acting quickly on data, even ‘live’, is one of the technology’s abilities, as is scalability: AI can process large amounts of information from disparate sources almost as easily as it can summarize a one-page spreadsheet.But deploying an AI solution in the modern enterprise isn’t simple. It takes structure, trust and the right talent. Along with the practical implementation challenges, using AI brings its own challenges, such as data governance, the need to impose guardrails on AI responses and training data, and persistent staffing issues.We met with Rani Radhakrishnan, PwC Principal, Technology Managed Services – AI, Data Analytics and Insights, to talk candidly about what’s working — and what’s holding back CIOs in their AI journey. We spoke ahead of her speaking engagement at TechEx AI & Big Data Expo North America, June 4 and 5, at the Santa Clara Convention Center.Rani is especially attuned to some of the governance, data privacy and sovereignty issues that face enterprises, having spent many years in her career working with numerous clients in the health sector — an area where issues like privacy, data oversight and above all data accuracy are make-or-break aspects of technology deployments.“It’s not enough to just have a prompt engineer or a Python developer. … You still need the human in the loop to curate the right training data sets, review and address any bias in the outputs.” —Rani Radhakrishnan, PwCFrom support to strategy: shifting expectations for AIRani said that there’s a growing enthusiasm from PwC’s clients for AI-powered managed services that can provide both business insights in every sector, and for the technology to be used more proactively, in so-called agentic roles where agents can independently act on data and user input; where autonomous AI agents can take action based on interactions with humans, access to data resources and automation.For example, PwC’s agent OS is a modular AI platform that connects systems and scales intelligent agents into workflows, many times faster than traditional computing methods. It’s an example of how PwC responds to the demand for AI from its clients, many of whom see the potential of this new technology, but lack the in-house expertise and staff to act on their needs.Depending on the sector of the organization, the interest in AI can come from many different places in the business. Proactive monitoring of physical or digital systems; predictive maintenance in manufacturing or engineering; or cost efficiencies won by automation in complex, customer-facing environments, are just a few examples.But regardless of where AI can bring value, most companies don’t yet have in-house the range of skills and people necessary for effective AI deployment — or at least, deployments that achieve ROI and don’t come with significant risk.“It’s not enough to just have a prompt engineer or a Python developer,” Rani said. “You’ve got to put all of these together in a very structured manner, and you still need the human in the loop to curate the right training data sets, review and address any bias in the outputs.”Cleaning house: the data challenge behind AIRani says that effective AI implementations need a mix of technical skills — data engineering, data science, prompt engineering — in combination with an organization’s domain expertise. Internal domain expertise can define the right outcomes, and technical staff can cover the responsible AI practices, like data collation and governance, and confirm that AI systems work responsibly and within company guidelines.“In order to get the most value out of AI, an organization has to get the underlying data right,” she said. “I don’t know of a single company that says its data is in great shape … you’ve got to get it into the right structure and normalize it properly so you can query, analyze, and annotate it and identify emerging trends.”Part of the work enterprises have to put in for effective AI use is the observation for and correction of bias — in both output of AI systems and in the analysis of potential bias inherent in training and operational data.It’s important that as part of the underlying architecture of AI systems, teams apply stringent data sanitization, normalization, and data annotation processes. The latter requires “a lot of human effort,” Rani said, and the skilled personnel required are among the new breed of data professionals that are beginning to emerge.If data and personnel challenges can be overcome, then the feedback loop makes the possible outcomes from generative AI really valuable, Rani said. “Now you have an opportunity with AI prompts to go back and refine the answer that you get. And that’s what makes it so unique and so valuable because now you’re training the model to answer the questions the way you want them answered.”For CIOs, the shift isn’t just about tech enablement. It’s about integrating AI into enterprise architecture, aligning with business strategy, and managing the governance risks that come with scale. CIOs are becoming AI stewards — architecting not just systems, but trust and transformation.ConclusionIt’s only been a few years since AI emerged from its roots in academic computer science research, so it’s understandable that today’s enterprise organizations are, to a certain extent, feeling their way towards realizing AI’s potential.But a new playbook is emerging — one that helps CIOs access the value held in their data reserves, in business strategy, operational improvement, customer-facing experiences and a dozen more areas of the business.As a company that’s steeped in experience with clients large and small from all over the world, PwC is one of the leading choices that decision-makers turn to, to begin or rationalize and direct their existing AI journeys.Explore how PwC is helping CIOs embed AI into core operations, and see Rani’s latest insights at the June TechEx AI & Big Data Expo North America. #enables #shift #enablement #strategic #leadership
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    AI enables shift from enablement to strategic leadership
    CIOs and business leaders know they’re sitting on a goldmine of business data. And while traditional tools such as business intelligence platforms and statistical analysis software can effectively surface insights from the collated data resources, doing so quickly, in real-time and at scale remains an unsolved challenge.Enterprise AI, when deployed responsibly and at scale, can turn these bottlenecks into opportunities. Acting quickly on data, even ‘live’ (during a customer interaction, for example), is one of the technology’s abilities, as is scalability: AI can process large amounts of information from disparate sources almost as easily as it can summarize a one-page spreadsheet.But deploying an AI solution in the modern enterprise isn’t simple. It takes structure, trust and the right talent. Along with the practical implementation challenges, using AI brings its own challenges, such as data governance, the need to impose guardrails on AI responses and training data, and persistent staffing issues.We met with Rani Radhakrishnan, PwC Principal, Technology Managed Services – AI, Data Analytics and Insights, to talk candidly about what’s working — and what’s holding back CIOs in their AI journey. We spoke ahead of her speaking engagement at TechEx AI & Big Data Expo North America, June 4 and 5, at the Santa Clara Convention Center.Rani is especially attuned to some of the governance, data privacy and sovereignty issues that face enterprises, having spent many years in her career working with numerous clients in the health sector — an area where issues like privacy, data oversight and above all data accuracy are make-or-break aspects of technology deployments.“It’s not enough to just have a prompt engineer or a Python developer. … You still need the human in the loop to curate the right training data sets, review and address any bias in the outputs.” —Rani Radhakrishnan, PwCFrom support to strategy: shifting expectations for AIRani said that there’s a growing enthusiasm from PwC’s clients for AI-powered managed services that can provide both business insights in every sector, and for the technology to be used more proactively, in so-called agentic roles where agents can independently act on data and user input; where autonomous AI agents can take action based on interactions with humans, access to data resources and automation.For example, PwC’s agent OS is a modular AI platform that connects systems and scales intelligent agents into workflows, many times faster than traditional computing methods. It’s an example of how PwC responds to the demand for AI from its clients, many of whom see the potential of this new technology, but lack the in-house expertise and staff to act on their needs.Depending on the sector of the organization, the interest in AI can come from many different places in the business. Proactive monitoring of physical or digital systems; predictive maintenance in manufacturing or engineering; or cost efficiencies won by automation in complex, customer-facing environments, are just a few examples.But regardless of where AI can bring value, most companies don’t yet have in-house the range of skills and people necessary for effective AI deployment — or at least, deployments that achieve ROI and don’t come with significant risk.“It’s not enough to just have a prompt engineer or a Python developer,” Rani said. “You’ve got to put all of these together in a very structured manner, and you still need the human in the loop to curate the right training data sets, review and address any bias in the outputs.”Cleaning house: the data challenge behind AIRani says that effective AI implementations need a mix of technical skills — data engineering, data science, prompt engineering — in combination with an organization’s domain expertise. Internal domain expertise can define the right outcomes, and technical staff can cover the responsible AI practices, like data collation and governance, and confirm that AI systems work responsibly and within company guidelines.“In order to get the most value out of AI, an organization has to get the underlying data right,” she said. “I don’t know of a single company that says its data is in great shape … you’ve got to get it into the right structure and normalize it properly so you can query, analyze, and annotate it and identify emerging trends.”Part of the work enterprises have to put in for effective AI use is the observation for and correction of bias — in both output of AI systems and in the analysis of potential bias inherent in training and operational data.It’s important that as part of the underlying architecture of AI systems, teams apply stringent data sanitization, normalization, and data annotation processes. The latter requires “a lot of human effort,” Rani said, and the skilled personnel required are among the new breed of data professionals that are beginning to emerge.If data and personnel challenges can be overcome, then the feedback loop makes the possible outcomes from generative AI really valuable, Rani said. “Now you have an opportunity with AI prompts to go back and refine the answer that you get. And that’s what makes it so unique and so valuable because now you’re training the model to answer the questions the way you want them answered.”For CIOs, the shift isn’t just about tech enablement. It’s about integrating AI into enterprise architecture, aligning with business strategy, and managing the governance risks that come with scale. CIOs are becoming AI stewards — architecting not just systems, but trust and transformation.ConclusionIt’s only been a few years since AI emerged from its roots in academic computer science research, so it’s understandable that today’s enterprise organizations are, to a certain extent, feeling their way towards realizing AI’s potential.But a new playbook is emerging — one that helps CIOs access the value held in their data reserves, in business strategy, operational improvement, customer-facing experiences and a dozen more areas of the business.As a company that’s steeped in experience with clients large and small from all over the world, PwC is one of the leading choices that decision-makers turn to, to begin or rationalize and direct their existing AI journeys.Explore how PwC is helping CIOs embed AI into core operations, and see Rani’s latest insights at the June TechEx AI & Big Data Expo North America.(Image source: “Network Rack” by one individual is licensed under CC BY-SA 2.0.)
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  • Nobody understands gambling, especially in video games

    In 2025, it’s very difficult not to see gambling advertised everywhere. It’s on billboards and sports broadcasts. It’s on podcasts and printed on the turnbuckle of AEW’s pay-per-view shows. And it’s on app stores, where you can find the FanDuel and DraftKings sportsbooks, alongside glitzy digital slot machines. These apps all have the highest age ratings possible on Apple’s App Store and Google Play. But earlier this year, a different kind of app nearly disappeared from the Play Store entirely.Luck Be A Landlord is a roguelite deckbuilder from solo developer Dan DiIorio. DiIorio got word from Google in January 2025 that Luck Be A Landlord was about to be pulled, globally, because DiIorio had not disclosed the game’s “gambling themes” in its rating.In Luck Be a Landlord, the player takes spins on a pixel art slot machine to earn coins to pay their ever-increasing rent — a nightmare gamification of our day-to-day grind to remain housed. On app stores, it’s a one-time purchase of and it’s on Steam. On the Play Store page, developer Dan DiIorio notes, “This game does not contain any real-world currency gambling or microtransactions.”And it doesn’t. But for Google, that didn’t matter. First, the game was removed from the storefront in a slew of countries that have strict gambling laws. Then, at the beginning of 2025, Google told Dilorio that Luck Be A Landlord would be pulled globally because of its rating discrepancy, as it “does not take into account references to gambling”.DiIorio had gone through this song and dance before — previously, when the game was blocked, he would send back a message saying “hey, the game doesn’t have gambling,” and then Google would send back a screenshot of the game and assert that, in fact, it had.DiIorio didn’t agree, but this time they decided that the risk of Landlord getting taken down permanently was too great. They’re a solo developer, and Luck Be a Landlord had just had its highest 30-day revenue since release. So, they filled out the form confirming that Luck Be A Landlord has “gambling themes,” and are currently hoping that this will be the end of it.This is a situation that sucks for an indie dev to be in, and over email DiIorio told Polygon it was “very frustrating.”“I think it can negatively affect indie developers if they fall outside the norm, which indies often do,” they wrote. “It also makes me afraid to explore mechanics like this further. It stifles creativity, and that’s really upsetting.”In late 2024, the hit game Balatro was in a similar position. It had won numerous awards, and made in its first week on mobile platforms. And then overnight, the PEGI ratings board declared that the game deserved an adult rating.The ESRB had already rated it E10+ in the US, noting it has gambling themes. And the game was already out in Europe, making its overnight ratings change a surprise. Publisher PlayStack said the rating was given because Balatro has “prominent gambling imagery and material that instructs about gambling.”Balatro is basically Luck Be A Landlord’s little cousin. Developer LocalThunk was inspired by watching streams of Luck Be A Landlord, and seeing the way DiIorio had implemented deck-building into his slot machine. And like Luck Be A Landlord, Balatro is a one-time purchase, with no microtransactions.But the PEGI board noted that because the game uses poker hands, the skills the player learns in Balatro could translate to real-world poker.In its write-up, GameSpot noted that the same thing happened to a game called Sunshine Shuffle. It was temporarily banned from the Nintendo eShop, and also from the entire country of South Korea. Unlike Balatro, Sunshine Shuffle actually is a poker game, except you’re playing Texas Hold ‘Em — again for no real money — with cute animals.It’s common sense that children shouldn’t be able to access apps that allow them to gamble. But none of these games contain actual gambling — or do they?Where do we draw the line? Is it gambling to play any game that is also played in casinos, like poker or blackjack? Is it gambling to play a game that evokes the aesthetics of a casino, like cards, chips, dice, or slot machines? Is it gambling to wager or earn fictional money?Gaming has always been a lightning rod for controversy. Sex, violence, misogyny, addiction — you name it, video games have been accused of perpetrating or encouraging it. But gambling is gaming’s original sin. And it’s the one we still can’t get a grip on.The original link between gambling and gamingGetty ImagesThe association between video games and gambling all goes back to pinball. Back in the ’30s and ’40s, politicians targeted pinball machines for promoting gambling. Early pinball machines were less skill-based, and some gave cash payouts, so the comparison wasn’t unfair. Famously, mob-hating New York City mayor Fiorello LaGuardia banned pinball in the city, and appeared in a newsreel dumping pinball and slot machines into the Long Island Sound. Pinball machines spent some time relegated to the back rooms of sex shops and dive bars. But after some lobbying, the laws relaxed.By the 1970s, pinball manufacturers were also making video games, and the machines were side-by-side in arcades. Arcade machines, like pinball, took small coin payments, repeatedly, for short rounds of play. The disreputable funk of pinball basically rubbed off onto video games.Ever since video games rocked onto the scene, concerned and sometimes uneducated parties have been asking if they’re dangerous. And in general, studies have shown that they’re not. The same can’t be said about gambling — the practice of putting real money down to bet on an outcome.It’s a golden age for gambling2025 in the USA is a great time for gambling, which has been really profitable for gambling companies — to the tune of billion dollars of revenue in 2023.To put this number in perspective, the American Gaming Association, which is the casino industry’s trade group and has nothing to do with video games, reports that 2022’s gambling revenue was billion. It went up billion in a year.And this increase isn’t just because of sportsbooks, although sports betting is a huge part of it. Online casinos and brick-and-mortar casinos are both earning more, and as a lot of people have pointed out, gambling is being normalized to a pretty disturbing degree.Much like with alcohol, for a small percentage of people, gambling can tip from occasional leisure activity into addiction. The people who are most at risk are, by and large, already vulnerable: researchers at the Yale School of Medicine found that 96% of problem gamblers are also wrestling with other disorders, such as “substance use, impulse-control disorders, mood disorders, and anxiety disorders.”Even if you’re not in that group, there are still good reasons to be wary of gambling. People tend to underestimate their own vulnerability to things they know are dangerous for others. Someone else might bet beyond their means. But I would simply know when to stop.Maybe you do! But being blithely confident about it can make it hard to notice if you do develop a problem. Or if you already have one.Addiction changes the way your brain works. When you’re addicted to something, your participation in it becomes compulsive, at the expense of other interests and responsibilities. Someone might turn to their addiction to self-soothe when depressed or anxious. And speaking of those feelings, people who are depressed and anxious are already more vulnerable to addiction. Given the entire state of the world right now, this predisposition shines an ugly light on the numbers touted by the AGA. Is it good that the industry is reporting billion in additional earnings, when the economy feels so frail, when the stock market is ping ponging through highs and lows daily, when daily expenses are rising? It doesn’t feel good. In 2024, the YouTuber Drew Gooden turned his critical eye to online gambling. One of the main points he makes in his excellent video is that gambling is more accessible than ever. It’s on all our phones, and betting companies are using decades of well-honed app design and behavioral studies to manipulate users to spend and spend.Meanwhile, advertising on podcasts, billboards, TV, radio, and websites – it’s literally everywhere — tells you that this is fun, and you don’t even need to know what you’re doing, and you’re probably one bet away from winning back those losses.Where does Luck Be a Landlord come into this?So, are there gambling themes in Luck Be A Landlord? The game’s slot machine is represented in simple pixel art. You pay one coin to use it, and among the more traditional slot machine symbols are silly ones like a snail that only pays out after 4 spins.When I started playing it, my primary emotion wasn’t necessarily elation at winning coins — it was stress and disbelief when, in the third round of the game, the landlord increased my rent by 100%. What the hell.I don’t doubt that getting better at it would produce dopamine thrills akin to gambling — or playing any video game. But it’s supposed to be difficult, because that’s the joke. If you beat the game you unlock more difficulty modes where, as you keep paying rent, your landlord gets furious, and starts throwing made-up rules at you: previously rare symbols will give you less of a payout, and the very mechanics of the slot machine change.It’s a manifestation of the golden rule of casinos, and all of capitalism writ large: the odds are stacked against you. The house always wins. There is luck involved, to be sure, but because Luck Be A Landlord is a deck-builder, knowing the different ways you can design your slot machine to maximize payouts is a skill! You have some influence over it, unlike a real slot machine. The synergies that I’ve seen high-level players create are completely nuts, and obviously based on a deep understanding of the strategies the game allows.IMAGE: TrampolineTales via PolygonBalatro and Luck Be a Landlord both distance themselves from casino gambling again in the way they treat money. In Landlord, the money you earn is gold coins, not any currency we recognize. And the payouts aren’t actually that big. By the end of the core game, the rent money you’re struggling and scraping to earn… is 777 coins. In the post-game endless mode, payouts can get massive. But the thing is, to get this far, you can’t rely on chance. You have to be very good at Luck Be a Landlord.And in Balatro, the numbers that get big are your points. The actual dollar payments in a round of Balatro are small. These aren’t games about earning wads and wads of cash. So, do these count as “gambling themes”?We’ll come back to that question later. First, I want to talk about a closer analog to what we colloquially consider gambling: loot boxes and gacha games.Random rewards: from Overwatch to the rise of gachaRecently, I did something that I haven’t done in a really long time: I thought about Overwatch. I used to play Overwatch with my friends, and I absolutely made a habit of dropping 20 bucks here or there for a bunch of seasonal loot boxes. This was never a problem behavior for me, but in hindsight, it does sting that over a couple of years, I dropped maybe on cosmetics for a game that now I primarily associate with squandered potential.Loot boxes grew out of free-to-play mobile games, where they’re the primary method of monetization. In something like Overwatch, they functioned as a way to earn additional revenue in an ongoing game, once the player had already dropped 40 bucks to buy it.More often than not, loot boxes are a random selection of skins and other cosmetics, but games like Star Wars: Battlefront 2 were famously criticized for launching with loot crates that essentially made it pay-to-win – if you bought enough of them and got lucky.It’s not unprecedented to associate loot boxes with gambling. A 2021 study published in Addictive Behaviors showed that players who self-reported as problem gamblers also tended to spend more on loot boxes, and another study done in the UK found a similar correlation with young adults.While Overwatch certainly wasn’t the first game to feature cosmetic loot boxes or microtransactions, it’s a reference point for me, and it also got attention worldwide. In 2018, Overwatch was investigated by the Belgian Gaming Commission, which found it “in violation of gambling legislation” alongside FIFA 18 and Counter-Strike: Global Offensive. Belgium’s response was to ban the sale of loot boxes without a gambling license. Having a paid random rewards mechanic in a game is a criminal offense there. But not really. A 2023 study showed that 82% of iPhone games sold on the App Store in Belgium still use random paid monetization, as do around 80% of games that are rated 12+. The ban wasn’t effectively enforced, if at all, and the study recommends that a blanket ban wouldn’t actually be a practical solution anyway.Overwatch was rated T for Teen by the ESRB, and 12 by PEGI. When it first came out, its loot boxes were divisive. Since the mechanic came from F2P mobile games, which are often seen as predatory, people balked at seeing it in a big action game from a multi-million dollar publisher.At the time, the rebuttal was, “Well, at least it’s just cosmetics.” Nobody needs to buy loot boxes to be good at Overwatch.A lot has changed since 2016. Now we have a deeper understanding of how these mechanics are designed to manipulate players, even if they don’t affect gameplay. But also, they’ve been normalized. While there will always be people expressing disappointment when a AAA game has a paid random loot mechanic, it is no longer shocking.And if anything, these mechanics have only become more prevalent, thanks to the growth of gacha games. Gacha is short for “gachapon,” the Japanese capsule machines where you pay to receive one of a selection of random toys. Getty ImagesIn gacha games, players pay — not necessarily real money, but we’ll get to that — for a chance to get something. Maybe it’s a character, or a special weapon, or some gear — it depends on the game. Whatever it is, within that context, it’s desirable — and unlike the cosmetics of Overwatch, gacha pulls often do impact the gameplay.For example, in Infinity Nikki, you can pull for clothing items in these limited-time events. You have a chance to get pieces of a five-star outfit. But you also might pull one of a set of four-star items, or a permanent three-star piece. Of course, if you want all ten pieces of the five-star outfit, you have to do multiple pulls, each costing a handful of limited resources that you can earn in-game or purchase with money.Gacha was a fixture of mobile gaming for a long time, but in recent years, we’ve seen it go AAA, and global. MiHoYo’s Genshin Impact did a lot of that work when it came out worldwide on consoles and PC alongside its mobile release. Genshin and its successors are massive AAA games of a scale that, for your Nintendos and Ubisofts, would necessitate selling a bajillion copies to be a success. And they’re free.Genshin is an action game, whose playstyle changes depending on what character you’re playing — characters you get from gacha pulls, of course. In Zenless Zone Zero, the characters you can pull have different combo patterns, do different kinds of damage, and just feel different to play. And whereas in an early mobile gacha game like Love Nikki Dress UP! Queen the world was rudimentary, its modern descendant Infinity Nikki is, like Genshin, Breath of the Wild-esque. It is a massive open world, with collectibles and physics puzzles, platforming challenges, and a surprisingly involved storyline. Genshin Impact was the subject of an interesting study where researchers asked young adults in Hong Kong to self-report on their gacha spending habits. They found that, like with gambling, players who are not feeling good tend to spend more. “Young adult gacha gamers experiencing greater stress and anxiety tend to spend more on gacha purchases, have more motives for gacha purchases, and participate in more gambling activities,” they wrote. “This group is at a particularly higher risk of becoming problem gamblers.”One thing that is important to note is that Genshin Impact came out in 2020. The study was self-reported, and it was done during the early stages of the COVID-19 pandemic. It was a time when people were experiencing a lot of stress, and also fewer options to relieve that stress. We were all stuck inside gaming.But the fact that stress can make people more likely to spend money on gacha shows that while the gacha model isn’t necessarily harmful to everyone, it is exploitative to everyone. Since I started writing this story, another self-reported study came out in Japan, where 18.8% of people in their 20s say they’ve spent money on gacha rather than on things like food or rent.Following Genshin Impact’s release, MiHoYo put out Honkai: Star Rail and Zenless Zone Zero. All are shiny, big-budget games that are free to play, but dangle the lure of making just one purchase in front of the player. Maybe you could drop five bucks on a handful of in-game currency to get one more pull. Or maybe just this month you’ll get the second tier of rewards on the game’s equivalent of a Battle Pass. The game is free, after all — but haven’t you enjoyed at least ten dollars’ worth of gameplay? Image: HoyoverseI spent most of my December throwing myself into Infinity Nikki. I had been so stressed, and the game was so soothing. I logged in daily to fulfill my daily wishes and earn my XP, diamonds, Threads of Purity, and bling. I accumulated massive amounts of resources. I haven’t spent money on the game. I’m trying not to, and so far, it’s been pretty easy. I’ve been super happy with how much stuff I can get for free, and how much I can do! I actually feel really good about that — which is what I said to my boyfriend, and he replied, “Yeah, that’s the point. That’s how they get you.”And he’s right. Currently, Infinity Nikki players are embroiled in a war with developer Infold, after Infold introduced yet another currency type with deep ties to Nikki’s gacha system. Every one of these gacha games has its own tangled system of overlapping currencies. Some can only be used on gacha pulls. Some can only be used to upgrade items. Many of them can be purchased with human money.Image: InFold Games/Papergames via PolygonAll of this adds up. According to Sensor Towers’ data, Genshin Impact earned over 36 million dollars on mobile alone in a single month of 2024. I don’t know what Dan DiIorio’s peak monthly revenue for Luck Be A Landlord was, but I’m pretty sure it wasn’t that.A lot of the spending guardrails we see in games like these are actually the result of regulations in other territories, especially China, where gacha has been a big deal for a lot longer. For example, gacha games have a daily limit on loot boxes, with the number clearly displayed, and a system collectively called “pity,” where getting the banner item is guaranteed after a certain number of pulls. Lastly, developers have to be clear about what the odds are. When I log in to spend the Revelation Crystals I’ve spent weeks hoarding in my F2P Infinity Nikki experience, I know that I have a 1.5% chance of pulling a 5-star piece, and that the odds can go up to 6.06%, and that I am guaranteed to get one within 20 pulls, because of the pity system.So, these odds are awful. But it is not as merciless as sitting down at a Vegas slot machine, an experience best described as “oh… that’s it?”There’s not a huge philosophical difference between buying a pack of loot boxes in Overwatch, a pull in Genshin Impact, or even a booster of Pokémon cards. You put in money, you get back randomized stuff that may or may not be what you want. In the dictionary definition, it’s a gamble. But unlike the slot machine, it’s not like you’re trying to win money by doing it, unless you’re selling those Pokémon cards, which is a topic for another time.But since even a game where you don’t get anything, like Balatro or Luck Be A Landlord, can come under fire for promoting gambling to kids, it would seem appropriate for app stores and ratings boards to take a similarly hardline stance with gacha.Instead, all these games are rated T for Teen by the ESRB, and PEGI 12 in the EU.The ESRB ratings for these games note that they contain in-game purchases, including random items. Honkai: Star Rail’s rating specifically calls out a slot machine mechanic, where players spend tokens to win a prize. But other than calling out Honkai’s slot machine, app stores are not slapping Genshin or Nikki with an 18+ rating. Meanwhile, Balatro had a PEGI rating of 18 until a successful appeal in February 2025, and Luck Be a Landlord is still 17+ on Apple’s App Store.Nobody knows what they’re doingWhen I started researching this piece, I felt very strongly that it was absurd that Luck Be A Landlord and Balatro had age ratings this high.I still believe that the way both devs have been treated by ratings boards is bad. Threatening an indie dev with a significant loss of income by pulling their game is bad, not giving them a way to defend themself or help them understand why it’s happening is even worse. It’s an extension of the general way that too-big-to-fail companies like Google treat all their customers.DiIorio told me that while it felt like a human being had at least looked at Luck Be A Landlord to make the determination that it contained gambling themes, the emails he was getting were automatic, and he doesn’t have a contact at Google to ask why this happened or how he can avoid it in the future — an experience that will be familiar to anyone who has ever needed Google support. But what’s changed for me is that I’m not actually sure anymore that games that don’t have gambling should be completely let off the hook for evoking gambling.Exposing teens to simulated gambling without financial stakes could spark an interest in the real thing later on, according to a study in the International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health. It’s the same reason you can’t mosey down to the drug store to buy candy cigarettes. Multiple studies were done that showed kids who ate candy cigarettes were more likely to take up smokingSo while I still think rating something like Balatro 18+ is nuts, I also think that describing it appropriately might be reasonable. As a game, it’s completely divorced from literally any kind of play you would find in a casino — but I can see the concern that the thrill of flashy numbers and the shiny cards might encourage young players to try their hand at poker in a real casino, where a real house can take their money.Maybe what’s more important than doling out high age ratings is helping people think about how media can affect us. In the same way that, when I was 12 and obsessed with The Matrix, my parents gently made sure that I knew that none of the violence was real and you can’t actually cartwheel through a hail of bullets in real life. Thanks, mom and dad!But that’s an answer that’s a lot more abstract and difficult to implement than a big red 18+ banner. When it comes to gacha, I think we’re even less equipped to talk about these game mechanics, and I’m certain they’re not being age-rated appropriately. On the one hand, like I said earlier, gacha exploits the player’s desire for stuff that they are heavily manipulated to buy with real money. On the other hand, I think it’s worth acknowledging that there is a difference between gacha and casino gambling.Problem gamblers aren’t satisfied by winning — the thing they’re addicted to is playing, and the risk that comes with it. In gacha games, players do report satisfaction when they achieve the prize they set out to get. And yes, in the game’s next season, the developer will be dangling a shiny new prize in front of them with the goal of starting the cycle over. But I think it’s fair to make the distinction, while still being highly critical of the model.And right now, there is close to no incentive for app stores to crack down on gacha in any way. They get a cut of in-app purchases. Back in 2023, miHoYo tried a couple of times to set up payment systems that circumvented Apple’s 30% cut of in-app spending. Both times, it was thwarted by Apple, whose App Store generated trillion in developer billings and sales in 2022.According to Apple itself, 90% of that money did not include any commission to Apple. Fortunately for Apple, ten percent of a trillion dollars is still one hundred billion dollars, which I would also like to have in my bank account. Apple has zero reason to curb spending on games that have been earning millions of dollars every month for years.And despite the popularity of Luck Be A Landlord and Balatro’s massive App Store success, these games will never be as lucrative. They’re one-time purchases, and they don’t have microtransactions. To add insult to injury, like most popular games, Luck Be A Landlord has a lot of clones. And from what I can tell, it doesn’t look like any of them have been made to indicate that their games contain the dreaded “gambling themes” that Google was so worried about in Landlord.In particular, a game called SpinCraft: Roguelike from Sneaky Panda Games raised million in seed funding for “inventing the Luck-Puzzler genre,” which it introduced in 2022, while Luck Be A Landlord went into early access in 2021.It’s free-to-play, has ads and in-app purchases, looks like Fisher Price made a slot machine, and it’s rated E for everyone, with no mention of gambling imagery in its rating. I reached out to the developers to ask if they had also been contacted by the Play Store to disclose that their game has gambling themes, but I haven’t heard back.Borrowing mechanics in games is as old as time, and it’s something I in no way want to imply shouldn’t happen because copyright is the killer of invention — but I think we can all agree that the system is broken.There is no consistency in how games with random chance are treated. We still do not know how to talk about gambling, or gambling themes, and at the end of the day, the results of this are the same: the house always wins.See More:
    #nobody #understands #gambling #especially #video
    Nobody understands gambling, especially in video games
    In 2025, it’s very difficult not to see gambling advertised everywhere. It’s on billboards and sports broadcasts. It’s on podcasts and printed on the turnbuckle of AEW’s pay-per-view shows. And it’s on app stores, where you can find the FanDuel and DraftKings sportsbooks, alongside glitzy digital slot machines. These apps all have the highest age ratings possible on Apple’s App Store and Google Play. But earlier this year, a different kind of app nearly disappeared from the Play Store entirely.Luck Be A Landlord is a roguelite deckbuilder from solo developer Dan DiIorio. DiIorio got word from Google in January 2025 that Luck Be A Landlord was about to be pulled, globally, because DiIorio had not disclosed the game’s “gambling themes” in its rating.In Luck Be a Landlord, the player takes spins on a pixel art slot machine to earn coins to pay their ever-increasing rent — a nightmare gamification of our day-to-day grind to remain housed. On app stores, it’s a one-time purchase of and it’s on Steam. On the Play Store page, developer Dan DiIorio notes, “This game does not contain any real-world currency gambling or microtransactions.”And it doesn’t. But for Google, that didn’t matter. First, the game was removed from the storefront in a slew of countries that have strict gambling laws. Then, at the beginning of 2025, Google told Dilorio that Luck Be A Landlord would be pulled globally because of its rating discrepancy, as it “does not take into account references to gambling”.DiIorio had gone through this song and dance before — previously, when the game was blocked, he would send back a message saying “hey, the game doesn’t have gambling,” and then Google would send back a screenshot of the game and assert that, in fact, it had.DiIorio didn’t agree, but this time they decided that the risk of Landlord getting taken down permanently was too great. They’re a solo developer, and Luck Be a Landlord had just had its highest 30-day revenue since release. So, they filled out the form confirming that Luck Be A Landlord has “gambling themes,” and are currently hoping that this will be the end of it.This is a situation that sucks for an indie dev to be in, and over email DiIorio told Polygon it was “very frustrating.”“I think it can negatively affect indie developers if they fall outside the norm, which indies often do,” they wrote. “It also makes me afraid to explore mechanics like this further. It stifles creativity, and that’s really upsetting.”In late 2024, the hit game Balatro was in a similar position. It had won numerous awards, and made in its first week on mobile platforms. And then overnight, the PEGI ratings board declared that the game deserved an adult rating.The ESRB had already rated it E10+ in the US, noting it has gambling themes. And the game was already out in Europe, making its overnight ratings change a surprise. Publisher PlayStack said the rating was given because Balatro has “prominent gambling imagery and material that instructs about gambling.”Balatro is basically Luck Be A Landlord’s little cousin. Developer LocalThunk was inspired by watching streams of Luck Be A Landlord, and seeing the way DiIorio had implemented deck-building into his slot machine. And like Luck Be A Landlord, Balatro is a one-time purchase, with no microtransactions.But the PEGI board noted that because the game uses poker hands, the skills the player learns in Balatro could translate to real-world poker.In its write-up, GameSpot noted that the same thing happened to a game called Sunshine Shuffle. It was temporarily banned from the Nintendo eShop, and also from the entire country of South Korea. Unlike Balatro, Sunshine Shuffle actually is a poker game, except you’re playing Texas Hold ‘Em — again for no real money — with cute animals.It’s common sense that children shouldn’t be able to access apps that allow them to gamble. But none of these games contain actual gambling — or do they?Where do we draw the line? Is it gambling to play any game that is also played in casinos, like poker or blackjack? Is it gambling to play a game that evokes the aesthetics of a casino, like cards, chips, dice, or slot machines? Is it gambling to wager or earn fictional money?Gaming has always been a lightning rod for controversy. Sex, violence, misogyny, addiction — you name it, video games have been accused of perpetrating or encouraging it. But gambling is gaming’s original sin. And it’s the one we still can’t get a grip on.The original link between gambling and gamingGetty ImagesThe association between video games and gambling all goes back to pinball. Back in the ’30s and ’40s, politicians targeted pinball machines for promoting gambling. Early pinball machines were less skill-based, and some gave cash payouts, so the comparison wasn’t unfair. Famously, mob-hating New York City mayor Fiorello LaGuardia banned pinball in the city, and appeared in a newsreel dumping pinball and slot machines into the Long Island Sound. Pinball machines spent some time relegated to the back rooms of sex shops and dive bars. But after some lobbying, the laws relaxed.By the 1970s, pinball manufacturers were also making video games, and the machines were side-by-side in arcades. Arcade machines, like pinball, took small coin payments, repeatedly, for short rounds of play. The disreputable funk of pinball basically rubbed off onto video games.Ever since video games rocked onto the scene, concerned and sometimes uneducated parties have been asking if they’re dangerous. And in general, studies have shown that they’re not. The same can’t be said about gambling — the practice of putting real money down to bet on an outcome.It’s a golden age for gambling2025 in the USA is a great time for gambling, which has been really profitable for gambling companies — to the tune of billion dollars of revenue in 2023.To put this number in perspective, the American Gaming Association, which is the casino industry’s trade group and has nothing to do with video games, reports that 2022’s gambling revenue was billion. It went up billion in a year.And this increase isn’t just because of sportsbooks, although sports betting is a huge part of it. Online casinos and brick-and-mortar casinos are both earning more, and as a lot of people have pointed out, gambling is being normalized to a pretty disturbing degree.Much like with alcohol, for a small percentage of people, gambling can tip from occasional leisure activity into addiction. The people who are most at risk are, by and large, already vulnerable: researchers at the Yale School of Medicine found that 96% of problem gamblers are also wrestling with other disorders, such as “substance use, impulse-control disorders, mood disorders, and anxiety disorders.”Even if you’re not in that group, there are still good reasons to be wary of gambling. People tend to underestimate their own vulnerability to things they know are dangerous for others. Someone else might bet beyond their means. But I would simply know when to stop.Maybe you do! But being blithely confident about it can make it hard to notice if you do develop a problem. Or if you already have one.Addiction changes the way your brain works. When you’re addicted to something, your participation in it becomes compulsive, at the expense of other interests and responsibilities. Someone might turn to their addiction to self-soothe when depressed or anxious. And speaking of those feelings, people who are depressed and anxious are already more vulnerable to addiction. Given the entire state of the world right now, this predisposition shines an ugly light on the numbers touted by the AGA. Is it good that the industry is reporting billion in additional earnings, when the economy feels so frail, when the stock market is ping ponging through highs and lows daily, when daily expenses are rising? It doesn’t feel good. In 2024, the YouTuber Drew Gooden turned his critical eye to online gambling. One of the main points he makes in his excellent video is that gambling is more accessible than ever. It’s on all our phones, and betting companies are using decades of well-honed app design and behavioral studies to manipulate users to spend and spend.Meanwhile, advertising on podcasts, billboards, TV, radio, and websites – it’s literally everywhere — tells you that this is fun, and you don’t even need to know what you’re doing, and you’re probably one bet away from winning back those losses.Where does Luck Be a Landlord come into this?So, are there gambling themes in Luck Be A Landlord? The game’s slot machine is represented in simple pixel art. You pay one coin to use it, and among the more traditional slot machine symbols are silly ones like a snail that only pays out after 4 spins.When I started playing it, my primary emotion wasn’t necessarily elation at winning coins — it was stress and disbelief when, in the third round of the game, the landlord increased my rent by 100%. What the hell.I don’t doubt that getting better at it would produce dopamine thrills akin to gambling — or playing any video game. But it’s supposed to be difficult, because that’s the joke. If you beat the game you unlock more difficulty modes where, as you keep paying rent, your landlord gets furious, and starts throwing made-up rules at you: previously rare symbols will give you less of a payout, and the very mechanics of the slot machine change.It’s a manifestation of the golden rule of casinos, and all of capitalism writ large: the odds are stacked against you. The house always wins. There is luck involved, to be sure, but because Luck Be A Landlord is a deck-builder, knowing the different ways you can design your slot machine to maximize payouts is a skill! You have some influence over it, unlike a real slot machine. The synergies that I’ve seen high-level players create are completely nuts, and obviously based on a deep understanding of the strategies the game allows.IMAGE: TrampolineTales via PolygonBalatro and Luck Be a Landlord both distance themselves from casino gambling again in the way they treat money. In Landlord, the money you earn is gold coins, not any currency we recognize. And the payouts aren’t actually that big. By the end of the core game, the rent money you’re struggling and scraping to earn… is 777 coins. In the post-game endless mode, payouts can get massive. But the thing is, to get this far, you can’t rely on chance. You have to be very good at Luck Be a Landlord.And in Balatro, the numbers that get big are your points. The actual dollar payments in a round of Balatro are small. These aren’t games about earning wads and wads of cash. So, do these count as “gambling themes”?We’ll come back to that question later. First, I want to talk about a closer analog to what we colloquially consider gambling: loot boxes and gacha games.Random rewards: from Overwatch to the rise of gachaRecently, I did something that I haven’t done in a really long time: I thought about Overwatch. I used to play Overwatch with my friends, and I absolutely made a habit of dropping 20 bucks here or there for a bunch of seasonal loot boxes. This was never a problem behavior for me, but in hindsight, it does sting that over a couple of years, I dropped maybe on cosmetics for a game that now I primarily associate with squandered potential.Loot boxes grew out of free-to-play mobile games, where they’re the primary method of monetization. In something like Overwatch, they functioned as a way to earn additional revenue in an ongoing game, once the player had already dropped 40 bucks to buy it.More often than not, loot boxes are a random selection of skins and other cosmetics, but games like Star Wars: Battlefront 2 were famously criticized for launching with loot crates that essentially made it pay-to-win – if you bought enough of them and got lucky.It’s not unprecedented to associate loot boxes with gambling. A 2021 study published in Addictive Behaviors showed that players who self-reported as problem gamblers also tended to spend more on loot boxes, and another study done in the UK found a similar correlation with young adults.While Overwatch certainly wasn’t the first game to feature cosmetic loot boxes or microtransactions, it’s a reference point for me, and it also got attention worldwide. In 2018, Overwatch was investigated by the Belgian Gaming Commission, which found it “in violation of gambling legislation” alongside FIFA 18 and Counter-Strike: Global Offensive. Belgium’s response was to ban the sale of loot boxes without a gambling license. Having a paid random rewards mechanic in a game is a criminal offense there. But not really. A 2023 study showed that 82% of iPhone games sold on the App Store in Belgium still use random paid monetization, as do around 80% of games that are rated 12+. The ban wasn’t effectively enforced, if at all, and the study recommends that a blanket ban wouldn’t actually be a practical solution anyway.Overwatch was rated T for Teen by the ESRB, and 12 by PEGI. When it first came out, its loot boxes were divisive. Since the mechanic came from F2P mobile games, which are often seen as predatory, people balked at seeing it in a big action game from a multi-million dollar publisher.At the time, the rebuttal was, “Well, at least it’s just cosmetics.” Nobody needs to buy loot boxes to be good at Overwatch.A lot has changed since 2016. Now we have a deeper understanding of how these mechanics are designed to manipulate players, even if they don’t affect gameplay. But also, they’ve been normalized. While there will always be people expressing disappointment when a AAA game has a paid random loot mechanic, it is no longer shocking.And if anything, these mechanics have only become more prevalent, thanks to the growth of gacha games. Gacha is short for “gachapon,” the Japanese capsule machines where you pay to receive one of a selection of random toys. Getty ImagesIn gacha games, players pay — not necessarily real money, but we’ll get to that — for a chance to get something. Maybe it’s a character, or a special weapon, or some gear — it depends on the game. Whatever it is, within that context, it’s desirable — and unlike the cosmetics of Overwatch, gacha pulls often do impact the gameplay.For example, in Infinity Nikki, you can pull for clothing items in these limited-time events. You have a chance to get pieces of a five-star outfit. But you also might pull one of a set of four-star items, or a permanent three-star piece. Of course, if you want all ten pieces of the five-star outfit, you have to do multiple pulls, each costing a handful of limited resources that you can earn in-game or purchase with money.Gacha was a fixture of mobile gaming for a long time, but in recent years, we’ve seen it go AAA, and global. MiHoYo’s Genshin Impact did a lot of that work when it came out worldwide on consoles and PC alongside its mobile release. Genshin and its successors are massive AAA games of a scale that, for your Nintendos and Ubisofts, would necessitate selling a bajillion copies to be a success. And they’re free.Genshin is an action game, whose playstyle changes depending on what character you’re playing — characters you get from gacha pulls, of course. In Zenless Zone Zero, the characters you can pull have different combo patterns, do different kinds of damage, and just feel different to play. And whereas in an early mobile gacha game like Love Nikki Dress UP! Queen the world was rudimentary, its modern descendant Infinity Nikki is, like Genshin, Breath of the Wild-esque. It is a massive open world, with collectibles and physics puzzles, platforming challenges, and a surprisingly involved storyline. Genshin Impact was the subject of an interesting study where researchers asked young adults in Hong Kong to self-report on their gacha spending habits. They found that, like with gambling, players who are not feeling good tend to spend more. “Young adult gacha gamers experiencing greater stress and anxiety tend to spend more on gacha purchases, have more motives for gacha purchases, and participate in more gambling activities,” they wrote. “This group is at a particularly higher risk of becoming problem gamblers.”One thing that is important to note is that Genshin Impact came out in 2020. The study was self-reported, and it was done during the early stages of the COVID-19 pandemic. It was a time when people were experiencing a lot of stress, and also fewer options to relieve that stress. We were all stuck inside gaming.But the fact that stress can make people more likely to spend money on gacha shows that while the gacha model isn’t necessarily harmful to everyone, it is exploitative to everyone. Since I started writing this story, another self-reported study came out in Japan, where 18.8% of people in their 20s say they’ve spent money on gacha rather than on things like food or rent.Following Genshin Impact’s release, MiHoYo put out Honkai: Star Rail and Zenless Zone Zero. All are shiny, big-budget games that are free to play, but dangle the lure of making just one purchase in front of the player. Maybe you could drop five bucks on a handful of in-game currency to get one more pull. Or maybe just this month you’ll get the second tier of rewards on the game’s equivalent of a Battle Pass. The game is free, after all — but haven’t you enjoyed at least ten dollars’ worth of gameplay? Image: HoyoverseI spent most of my December throwing myself into Infinity Nikki. I had been so stressed, and the game was so soothing. I logged in daily to fulfill my daily wishes and earn my XP, diamonds, Threads of Purity, and bling. I accumulated massive amounts of resources. I haven’t spent money on the game. I’m trying not to, and so far, it’s been pretty easy. I’ve been super happy with how much stuff I can get for free, and how much I can do! I actually feel really good about that — which is what I said to my boyfriend, and he replied, “Yeah, that’s the point. That’s how they get you.”And he’s right. Currently, Infinity Nikki players are embroiled in a war with developer Infold, after Infold introduced yet another currency type with deep ties to Nikki’s gacha system. Every one of these gacha games has its own tangled system of overlapping currencies. Some can only be used on gacha pulls. Some can only be used to upgrade items. Many of them can be purchased with human money.Image: InFold Games/Papergames via PolygonAll of this adds up. According to Sensor Towers’ data, Genshin Impact earned over 36 million dollars on mobile alone in a single month of 2024. I don’t know what Dan DiIorio’s peak monthly revenue for Luck Be A Landlord was, but I’m pretty sure it wasn’t that.A lot of the spending guardrails we see in games like these are actually the result of regulations in other territories, especially China, where gacha has been a big deal for a lot longer. For example, gacha games have a daily limit on loot boxes, with the number clearly displayed, and a system collectively called “pity,” where getting the banner item is guaranteed after a certain number of pulls. Lastly, developers have to be clear about what the odds are. When I log in to spend the Revelation Crystals I’ve spent weeks hoarding in my F2P Infinity Nikki experience, I know that I have a 1.5% chance of pulling a 5-star piece, and that the odds can go up to 6.06%, and that I am guaranteed to get one within 20 pulls, because of the pity system.So, these odds are awful. But it is not as merciless as sitting down at a Vegas slot machine, an experience best described as “oh… that’s it?”There’s not a huge philosophical difference between buying a pack of loot boxes in Overwatch, a pull in Genshin Impact, or even a booster of Pokémon cards. You put in money, you get back randomized stuff that may or may not be what you want. In the dictionary definition, it’s a gamble. But unlike the slot machine, it’s not like you’re trying to win money by doing it, unless you’re selling those Pokémon cards, which is a topic for another time.But since even a game where you don’t get anything, like Balatro or Luck Be A Landlord, can come under fire for promoting gambling to kids, it would seem appropriate for app stores and ratings boards to take a similarly hardline stance with gacha.Instead, all these games are rated T for Teen by the ESRB, and PEGI 12 in the EU.The ESRB ratings for these games note that they contain in-game purchases, including random items. Honkai: Star Rail’s rating specifically calls out a slot machine mechanic, where players spend tokens to win a prize. But other than calling out Honkai’s slot machine, app stores are not slapping Genshin or Nikki with an 18+ rating. Meanwhile, Balatro had a PEGI rating of 18 until a successful appeal in February 2025, and Luck Be a Landlord is still 17+ on Apple’s App Store.Nobody knows what they’re doingWhen I started researching this piece, I felt very strongly that it was absurd that Luck Be A Landlord and Balatro had age ratings this high.I still believe that the way both devs have been treated by ratings boards is bad. Threatening an indie dev with a significant loss of income by pulling their game is bad, not giving them a way to defend themself or help them understand why it’s happening is even worse. It’s an extension of the general way that too-big-to-fail companies like Google treat all their customers.DiIorio told me that while it felt like a human being had at least looked at Luck Be A Landlord to make the determination that it contained gambling themes, the emails he was getting were automatic, and he doesn’t have a contact at Google to ask why this happened or how he can avoid it in the future — an experience that will be familiar to anyone who has ever needed Google support. But what’s changed for me is that I’m not actually sure anymore that games that don’t have gambling should be completely let off the hook for evoking gambling.Exposing teens to simulated gambling without financial stakes could spark an interest in the real thing later on, according to a study in the International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health. It’s the same reason you can’t mosey down to the drug store to buy candy cigarettes. Multiple studies were done that showed kids who ate candy cigarettes were more likely to take up smokingSo while I still think rating something like Balatro 18+ is nuts, I also think that describing it appropriately might be reasonable. As a game, it’s completely divorced from literally any kind of play you would find in a casino — but I can see the concern that the thrill of flashy numbers and the shiny cards might encourage young players to try their hand at poker in a real casino, where a real house can take their money.Maybe what’s more important than doling out high age ratings is helping people think about how media can affect us. In the same way that, when I was 12 and obsessed with The Matrix, my parents gently made sure that I knew that none of the violence was real and you can’t actually cartwheel through a hail of bullets in real life. Thanks, mom and dad!But that’s an answer that’s a lot more abstract and difficult to implement than a big red 18+ banner. When it comes to gacha, I think we’re even less equipped to talk about these game mechanics, and I’m certain they’re not being age-rated appropriately. On the one hand, like I said earlier, gacha exploits the player’s desire for stuff that they are heavily manipulated to buy with real money. On the other hand, I think it’s worth acknowledging that there is a difference between gacha and casino gambling.Problem gamblers aren’t satisfied by winning — the thing they’re addicted to is playing, and the risk that comes with it. In gacha games, players do report satisfaction when they achieve the prize they set out to get. And yes, in the game’s next season, the developer will be dangling a shiny new prize in front of them with the goal of starting the cycle over. But I think it’s fair to make the distinction, while still being highly critical of the model.And right now, there is close to no incentive for app stores to crack down on gacha in any way. They get a cut of in-app purchases. Back in 2023, miHoYo tried a couple of times to set up payment systems that circumvented Apple’s 30% cut of in-app spending. Both times, it was thwarted by Apple, whose App Store generated trillion in developer billings and sales in 2022.According to Apple itself, 90% of that money did not include any commission to Apple. Fortunately for Apple, ten percent of a trillion dollars is still one hundred billion dollars, which I would also like to have in my bank account. Apple has zero reason to curb spending on games that have been earning millions of dollars every month for years.And despite the popularity of Luck Be A Landlord and Balatro’s massive App Store success, these games will never be as lucrative. They’re one-time purchases, and they don’t have microtransactions. To add insult to injury, like most popular games, Luck Be A Landlord has a lot of clones. And from what I can tell, it doesn’t look like any of them have been made to indicate that their games contain the dreaded “gambling themes” that Google was so worried about in Landlord.In particular, a game called SpinCraft: Roguelike from Sneaky Panda Games raised million in seed funding for “inventing the Luck-Puzzler genre,” which it introduced in 2022, while Luck Be A Landlord went into early access in 2021.It’s free-to-play, has ads and in-app purchases, looks like Fisher Price made a slot machine, and it’s rated E for everyone, with no mention of gambling imagery in its rating. I reached out to the developers to ask if they had also been contacted by the Play Store to disclose that their game has gambling themes, but I haven’t heard back.Borrowing mechanics in games is as old as time, and it’s something I in no way want to imply shouldn’t happen because copyright is the killer of invention — but I think we can all agree that the system is broken.There is no consistency in how games with random chance are treated. We still do not know how to talk about gambling, or gambling themes, and at the end of the day, the results of this are the same: the house always wins.See More: #nobody #understands #gambling #especially #video
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    Nobody understands gambling, especially in video games
    In 2025, it’s very difficult not to see gambling advertised everywhere. It’s on billboards and sports broadcasts. It’s on podcasts and printed on the turnbuckle of AEW’s pay-per-view shows. And it’s on app stores, where you can find the FanDuel and DraftKings sportsbooks, alongside glitzy digital slot machines. These apps all have the highest age ratings possible on Apple’s App Store and Google Play. But earlier this year, a different kind of app nearly disappeared from the Play Store entirely.Luck Be A Landlord is a roguelite deckbuilder from solo developer Dan DiIorio. DiIorio got word from Google in January 2025 that Luck Be A Landlord was about to be pulled, globally, because DiIorio had not disclosed the game’s “gambling themes” in its rating.In Luck Be a Landlord, the player takes spins on a pixel art slot machine to earn coins to pay their ever-increasing rent — a nightmare gamification of our day-to-day grind to remain housed. On app stores, it’s a one-time purchase of $4.99, and it’s $9.99 on Steam. On the Play Store page, developer Dan DiIorio notes, “This game does not contain any real-world currency gambling or microtransactions.”And it doesn’t. But for Google, that didn’t matter. First, the game was removed from the storefront in a slew of countries that have strict gambling laws. Then, at the beginning of 2025, Google told Dilorio that Luck Be A Landlord would be pulled globally because of its rating discrepancy, as it “does not take into account references to gambling (including real or simulated gambling)”.DiIorio had gone through this song and dance before — previously, when the game was blocked, he would send back a message saying “hey, the game doesn’t have gambling,” and then Google would send back a screenshot of the game and assert that, in fact, it had.DiIorio didn’t agree, but this time they decided that the risk of Landlord getting taken down permanently was too great. They’re a solo developer, and Luck Be a Landlord had just had its highest 30-day revenue since release. So, they filled out the form confirming that Luck Be A Landlord has “gambling themes,” and are currently hoping that this will be the end of it.This is a situation that sucks for an indie dev to be in, and over email DiIorio told Polygon it was “very frustrating.”“I think it can negatively affect indie developers if they fall outside the norm, which indies often do,” they wrote. “It also makes me afraid to explore mechanics like this further. It stifles creativity, and that’s really upsetting.”In late 2024, the hit game Balatro was in a similar position. It had won numerous awards, and made $1,000,000 in its first week on mobile platforms. And then overnight, the PEGI ratings board declared that the game deserved an adult rating.The ESRB had already rated it E10+ in the US, noting it has gambling themes. And the game was already out in Europe, making its overnight ratings change a surprise. Publisher PlayStack said the rating was given because Balatro has “prominent gambling imagery and material that instructs about gambling.”Balatro is basically Luck Be A Landlord’s little cousin. Developer LocalThunk was inspired by watching streams of Luck Be A Landlord, and seeing the way DiIorio had implemented deck-building into his slot machine. And like Luck Be A Landlord, Balatro is a one-time purchase, with no microtransactions.But the PEGI board noted that because the game uses poker hands, the skills the player learns in Balatro could translate to real-world poker.In its write-up, GameSpot noted that the same thing happened to a game called Sunshine Shuffle. It was temporarily banned from the Nintendo eShop, and also from the entire country of South Korea. Unlike Balatro, Sunshine Shuffle actually is a poker game, except you’re playing Texas Hold ‘Em — again for no real money — with cute animals (who are bank robbers).It’s common sense that children shouldn’t be able to access apps that allow them to gamble. But none of these games contain actual gambling — or do they?Where do we draw the line? Is it gambling to play any game that is also played in casinos, like poker or blackjack? Is it gambling to play a game that evokes the aesthetics of a casino, like cards, chips, dice, or slot machines? Is it gambling to wager or earn fictional money?Gaming has always been a lightning rod for controversy. Sex, violence, misogyny, addiction — you name it, video games have been accused of perpetrating or encouraging it. But gambling is gaming’s original sin. And it’s the one we still can’t get a grip on.The original link between gambling and gamingGetty ImagesThe association between video games and gambling all goes back to pinball. Back in the ’30s and ’40s, politicians targeted pinball machines for promoting gambling. Early pinball machines were less skill-based (they didn’t have flippers), and some gave cash payouts, so the comparison wasn’t unfair. Famously, mob-hating New York City mayor Fiorello LaGuardia banned pinball in the city, and appeared in a newsreel dumping pinball and slot machines into the Long Island Sound. Pinball machines spent some time relegated to the back rooms of sex shops and dive bars. But after some lobbying, the laws relaxed.By the 1970s, pinball manufacturers were also making video games, and the machines were side-by-side in arcades. Arcade machines, like pinball, took small coin payments, repeatedly, for short rounds of play. The disreputable funk of pinball basically rubbed off onto video games.Ever since video games rocked onto the scene, concerned and sometimes uneducated parties have been asking if they’re dangerous. And in general, studies have shown that they’re not. The same can’t be said about gambling — the practice of putting real money down to bet on an outcome.It’s a golden age for gambling2025 in the USA is a great time for gambling, which has been really profitable for gambling companies — to the tune of $66.5 billion dollars of revenue in 2023.To put this number in perspective, the American Gaming Association, which is the casino industry’s trade group and has nothing to do with video games, reports that 2022’s gambling revenue was $60.5 billion. It went up $6 billion in a year.And this increase isn’t just because of sportsbooks, although sports betting is a huge part of it. Online casinos and brick-and-mortar casinos are both earning more, and as a lot of people have pointed out, gambling is being normalized to a pretty disturbing degree.Much like with alcohol, for a small percentage of people, gambling can tip from occasional leisure activity into addiction. The people who are most at risk are, by and large, already vulnerable: researchers at the Yale School of Medicine found that 96% of problem gamblers are also wrestling with other disorders, such as “substance use, impulse-control disorders, mood disorders, and anxiety disorders.”Even if you’re not in that group, there are still good reasons to be wary of gambling. People tend to underestimate their own vulnerability to things they know are dangerous for others. Someone else might bet beyond their means. But I would simply know when to stop.Maybe you do! But being blithely confident about it can make it hard to notice if you do develop a problem. Or if you already have one.Addiction changes the way your brain works. When you’re addicted to something, your participation in it becomes compulsive, at the expense of other interests and responsibilities. Someone might turn to their addiction to self-soothe when depressed or anxious. And speaking of those feelings, people who are depressed and anxious are already more vulnerable to addiction. Given the entire state of the world right now, this predisposition shines an ugly light on the numbers touted by the AGA. Is it good that the industry is reporting $6 billion in additional earnings, when the economy feels so frail, when the stock market is ping ponging through highs and lows daily, when daily expenses are rising? It doesn’t feel good. In 2024, the YouTuber Drew Gooden turned his critical eye to online gambling. One of the main points he makes in his excellent video is that gambling is more accessible than ever. It’s on all our phones, and betting companies are using decades of well-honed app design and behavioral studies to manipulate users to spend and spend.Meanwhile, advertising on podcasts, billboards, TV, radio, and websites – it’s literally everywhere — tells you that this is fun, and you don’t even need to know what you’re doing, and you’re probably one bet away from winning back those losses.Where does Luck Be a Landlord come into this?So, are there gambling themes in Luck Be A Landlord? The game’s slot machine is represented in simple pixel art. You pay one coin to use it, and among the more traditional slot machine symbols are silly ones like a snail that only pays out after 4 spins.When I started playing it, my primary emotion wasn’t necessarily elation at winning coins — it was stress and disbelief when, in the third round of the game, the landlord increased my rent by 100%. What the hell.I don’t doubt that getting better at it would produce dopamine thrills akin to gambling — or playing any video game. But it’s supposed to be difficult, because that’s the joke. If you beat the game you unlock more difficulty modes where, as you keep paying rent, your landlord gets furious, and starts throwing made-up rules at you: previously rare symbols will give you less of a payout, and the very mechanics of the slot machine change.It’s a manifestation of the golden rule of casinos, and all of capitalism writ large: the odds are stacked against you. The house always wins. There is luck involved, to be sure, but because Luck Be A Landlord is a deck-builder, knowing the different ways you can design your slot machine to maximize payouts is a skill! You have some influence over it, unlike a real slot machine. The synergies that I’ve seen high-level players create are completely nuts, and obviously based on a deep understanding of the strategies the game allows.IMAGE: TrampolineTales via PolygonBalatro and Luck Be a Landlord both distance themselves from casino gambling again in the way they treat money. In Landlord, the money you earn is gold coins, not any currency we recognize. And the payouts aren’t actually that big. By the end of the core game, the rent money you’re struggling and scraping to earn… is 777 coins. In the post-game endless mode, payouts can get massive. But the thing is, to get this far, you can’t rely on chance. You have to be very good at Luck Be a Landlord.And in Balatro, the numbers that get big are your points. The actual dollar payments in a round of Balatro are small. These aren’t games about earning wads and wads of cash. So, do these count as “gambling themes”?We’ll come back to that question later. First, I want to talk about a closer analog to what we colloquially consider gambling: loot boxes and gacha games.Random rewards: from Overwatch to the rise of gachaRecently, I did something that I haven’t done in a really long time: I thought about Overwatch. I used to play Overwatch with my friends, and I absolutely made a habit of dropping 20 bucks here or there for a bunch of seasonal loot boxes. This was never a problem behavior for me, but in hindsight, it does sting that over a couple of years, I dropped maybe $150 on cosmetics for a game that now I primarily associate with squandered potential.Loot boxes grew out of free-to-play mobile games, where they’re the primary method of monetization. In something like Overwatch, they functioned as a way to earn additional revenue in an ongoing game, once the player had already dropped 40 bucks to buy it.More often than not, loot boxes are a random selection of skins and other cosmetics, but games like Star Wars: Battlefront 2 were famously criticized for launching with loot crates that essentially made it pay-to-win – if you bought enough of them and got lucky.It’s not unprecedented to associate loot boxes with gambling. A 2021 study published in Addictive Behaviors showed that players who self-reported as problem gamblers also tended to spend more on loot boxes, and another study done in the UK found a similar correlation with young adults.While Overwatch certainly wasn’t the first game to feature cosmetic loot boxes or microtransactions, it’s a reference point for me, and it also got attention worldwide. In 2018, Overwatch was investigated by the Belgian Gaming Commission, which found it “in violation of gambling legislation” alongside FIFA 18 and Counter-Strike: Global Offensive. Belgium’s response was to ban the sale of loot boxes without a gambling license. Having a paid random rewards mechanic in a game is a criminal offense there. But not really. A 2023 study showed that 82% of iPhone games sold on the App Store in Belgium still use random paid monetization, as do around 80% of games that are rated 12+. The ban wasn’t effectively enforced, if at all, and the study recommends that a blanket ban wouldn’t actually be a practical solution anyway.Overwatch was rated T for Teen by the ESRB, and 12 by PEGI. When it first came out, its loot boxes were divisive. Since the mechanic came from F2P mobile games, which are often seen as predatory, people balked at seeing it in a big action game from a multi-million dollar publisher.At the time, the rebuttal was, “Well, at least it’s just cosmetics.” Nobody needs to buy loot boxes to be good at Overwatch.A lot has changed since 2016. Now we have a deeper understanding of how these mechanics are designed to manipulate players, even if they don’t affect gameplay. But also, they’ve been normalized. While there will always be people expressing disappointment when a AAA game has a paid random loot mechanic, it is no longer shocking.And if anything, these mechanics have only become more prevalent, thanks to the growth of gacha games. Gacha is short for “gachapon,” the Japanese capsule machines where you pay to receive one of a selection of random toys. Getty ImagesIn gacha games, players pay — not necessarily real money, but we’ll get to that — for a chance to get something. Maybe it’s a character, or a special weapon, or some gear — it depends on the game. Whatever it is, within that context, it’s desirable — and unlike the cosmetics of Overwatch, gacha pulls often do impact the gameplay.For example, in Infinity Nikki, you can pull for clothing items in these limited-time events. You have a chance to get pieces of a five-star outfit. But you also might pull one of a set of four-star items, or a permanent three-star piece. Of course, if you want all ten pieces of the five-star outfit, you have to do multiple pulls, each costing a handful of limited resources that you can earn in-game or purchase with money.Gacha was a fixture of mobile gaming for a long time, but in recent years, we’ve seen it go AAA, and global. MiHoYo’s Genshin Impact did a lot of that work when it came out worldwide on consoles and PC alongside its mobile release. Genshin and its successors are massive AAA games of a scale that, for your Nintendos and Ubisofts, would necessitate selling a bajillion copies to be a success. And they’re free.Genshin is an action game, whose playstyle changes depending on what character you’re playing — characters you get from gacha pulls, of course. In Zenless Zone Zero, the characters you can pull have different combo patterns, do different kinds of damage, and just feel different to play. And whereas in an early mobile gacha game like Love Nikki Dress UP! Queen the world was rudimentary, its modern descendant Infinity Nikki is, like Genshin, Breath of the Wild-esque. It is a massive open world, with collectibles and physics puzzles, platforming challenges, and a surprisingly involved storyline. Genshin Impact was the subject of an interesting study where researchers asked young adults in Hong Kong to self-report on their gacha spending habits. They found that, like with gambling, players who are not feeling good tend to spend more. “Young adult gacha gamers experiencing greater stress and anxiety tend to spend more on gacha purchases, have more motives for gacha purchases, and participate in more gambling activities,” they wrote. “This group is at a particularly higher risk of becoming problem gamblers.”One thing that is important to note is that Genshin Impact came out in 2020. The study was self-reported, and it was done during the early stages of the COVID-19 pandemic. It was a time when people were experiencing a lot of stress, and also fewer options to relieve that stress. We were all stuck inside gaming.But the fact that stress can make people more likely to spend money on gacha shows that while the gacha model isn’t necessarily harmful to everyone, it is exploitative to everyone. Since I started writing this story, another self-reported study came out in Japan, where 18.8% of people in their 20s say they’ve spent money on gacha rather than on things like food or rent.Following Genshin Impact’s release, MiHoYo put out Honkai: Star Rail and Zenless Zone Zero. All are shiny, big-budget games that are free to play, but dangle the lure of making just one purchase in front of the player. Maybe you could drop five bucks on a handful of in-game currency to get one more pull. Or maybe just this month you’ll get the second tier of rewards on the game’s equivalent of a Battle Pass. The game is free, after all — but haven’t you enjoyed at least ten dollars’ worth of gameplay? Image: HoyoverseI spent most of my December throwing myself into Infinity Nikki. I had been so stressed, and the game was so soothing. I logged in daily to fulfill my daily wishes and earn my XP, diamonds, Threads of Purity, and bling. I accumulated massive amounts of resources. I haven’t spent money on the game. I’m trying not to, and so far, it’s been pretty easy. I’ve been super happy with how much stuff I can get for free, and how much I can do! I actually feel really good about that — which is what I said to my boyfriend, and he replied, “Yeah, that’s the point. That’s how they get you.”And he’s right. Currently, Infinity Nikki players are embroiled in a war with developer Infold, after Infold introduced yet another currency type with deep ties to Nikki’s gacha system. Every one of these gacha games has its own tangled system of overlapping currencies. Some can only be used on gacha pulls. Some can only be used to upgrade items. Many of them can be purchased with human money.Image: InFold Games/Papergames via PolygonAll of this adds up. According to Sensor Towers’ data, Genshin Impact earned over 36 million dollars on mobile alone in a single month of 2024. I don’t know what Dan DiIorio’s peak monthly revenue for Luck Be A Landlord was, but I’m pretty sure it wasn’t that.A lot of the spending guardrails we see in games like these are actually the result of regulations in other territories, especially China, where gacha has been a big deal for a lot longer. For example, gacha games have a daily limit on loot boxes, with the number clearly displayed, and a system collectively called “pity,” where getting the banner item is guaranteed after a certain number of pulls. Lastly, developers have to be clear about what the odds are. When I log in to spend the Revelation Crystals I’ve spent weeks hoarding in my F2P Infinity Nikki experience, I know that I have a 1.5% chance of pulling a 5-star piece, and that the odds can go up to 6.06%, and that I am guaranteed to get one within 20 pulls, because of the pity system.So, these odds are awful. But it is not as merciless as sitting down at a Vegas slot machine, an experience best described as “oh… that’s it?”There’s not a huge philosophical difference between buying a pack of loot boxes in Overwatch, a pull in Genshin Impact, or even a booster of Pokémon cards. You put in money, you get back randomized stuff that may or may not be what you want. In the dictionary definition, it’s a gamble. But unlike the slot machine, it’s not like you’re trying to win money by doing it, unless you’re selling those Pokémon cards, which is a topic for another time.But since even a game where you don’t get anything, like Balatro or Luck Be A Landlord, can come under fire for promoting gambling to kids, it would seem appropriate for app stores and ratings boards to take a similarly hardline stance with gacha.Instead, all these games are rated T for Teen by the ESRB, and PEGI 12 in the EU.The ESRB ratings for these games note that they contain in-game purchases, including random items. Honkai: Star Rail’s rating specifically calls out a slot machine mechanic, where players spend tokens to win a prize. But other than calling out Honkai’s slot machine, app stores are not slapping Genshin or Nikki with an 18+ rating. Meanwhile, Balatro had a PEGI rating of 18 until a successful appeal in February 2025, and Luck Be a Landlord is still 17+ on Apple’s App Store.Nobody knows what they’re doingWhen I started researching this piece, I felt very strongly that it was absurd that Luck Be A Landlord and Balatro had age ratings this high.I still believe that the way both devs have been treated by ratings boards is bad. Threatening an indie dev with a significant loss of income by pulling their game is bad, not giving them a way to defend themself or help them understand why it’s happening is even worse. It’s an extension of the general way that too-big-to-fail companies like Google treat all their customers.DiIorio told me that while it felt like a human being had at least looked at Luck Be A Landlord to make the determination that it contained gambling themes, the emails he was getting were automatic, and he doesn’t have a contact at Google to ask why this happened or how he can avoid it in the future — an experience that will be familiar to anyone who has ever needed Google support. But what’s changed for me is that I’m not actually sure anymore that games that don’t have gambling should be completely let off the hook for evoking gambling.Exposing teens to simulated gambling without financial stakes could spark an interest in the real thing later on, according to a study in the International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health. It’s the same reason you can’t mosey down to the drug store to buy candy cigarettes. Multiple studies were done that showed kids who ate candy cigarettes were more likely to take up smoking (of course, the candy is still available — just without the “cigarette” branding.)So while I still think rating something like Balatro 18+ is nuts, I also think that describing it appropriately might be reasonable. As a game, it’s completely divorced from literally any kind of play you would find in a casino — but I can see the concern that the thrill of flashy numbers and the shiny cards might encourage young players to try their hand at poker in a real casino, where a real house can take their money.Maybe what’s more important than doling out high age ratings is helping people think about how media can affect us. In the same way that, when I was 12 and obsessed with The Matrix, my parents gently made sure that I knew that none of the violence was real and you can’t actually cartwheel through a hail of bullets in real life. Thanks, mom and dad!But that’s an answer that’s a lot more abstract and difficult to implement than a big red 18+ banner. When it comes to gacha, I think we’re even less equipped to talk about these game mechanics, and I’m certain they’re not being age-rated appropriately. On the one hand, like I said earlier, gacha exploits the player’s desire for stuff that they are heavily manipulated to buy with real money. On the other hand, I think it’s worth acknowledging that there is a difference between gacha and casino gambling.Problem gamblers aren’t satisfied by winning — the thing they’re addicted to is playing, and the risk that comes with it. In gacha games, players do report satisfaction when they achieve the prize they set out to get. And yes, in the game’s next season, the developer will be dangling a shiny new prize in front of them with the goal of starting the cycle over. But I think it’s fair to make the distinction, while still being highly critical of the model.And right now, there is close to no incentive for app stores to crack down on gacha in any way. They get a cut of in-app purchases. Back in 2023, miHoYo tried a couple of times to set up payment systems that circumvented Apple’s 30% cut of in-app spending. Both times, it was thwarted by Apple, whose App Store generated $1.1 trillion in developer billings and sales in 2022.According to Apple itself, 90% of that money did not include any commission to Apple. Fortunately for Apple, ten percent of a trillion dollars is still one hundred billion dollars, which I would also like to have in my bank account. Apple has zero reason to curb spending on games that have been earning millions of dollars every month for years.And despite the popularity of Luck Be A Landlord and Balatro’s massive App Store success, these games will never be as lucrative. They’re one-time purchases, and they don’t have microtransactions. To add insult to injury, like most popular games, Luck Be A Landlord has a lot of clones. And from what I can tell, it doesn’t look like any of them have been made to indicate that their games contain the dreaded “gambling themes” that Google was so worried about in Landlord.In particular, a game called SpinCraft: Roguelike from Sneaky Panda Games raised $6 million in seed funding for “inventing the Luck-Puzzler genre,” which it introduced in 2022, while Luck Be A Landlord went into early access in 2021.It’s free-to-play, has ads and in-app purchases, looks like Fisher Price made a slot machine, and it’s rated E for everyone, with no mention of gambling imagery in its rating. I reached out to the developers to ask if they had also been contacted by the Play Store to disclose that their game has gambling themes, but I haven’t heard back.Borrowing mechanics in games is as old as time, and it’s something I in no way want to imply shouldn’t happen because copyright is the killer of invention — but I think we can all agree that the system is broken.There is no consistency in how games with random chance are treated. We still do not know how to talk about gambling, or gambling themes, and at the end of the day, the results of this are the same: the house always wins.See More:
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  • A timeline of Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner's relationship

    Ivanka Trump has made it clear that she's done with politics. That hasn't stopped her and husband Jared Kushner from remaining an influential political couple.They have not formally reprised their roles as White House advisors in President Donald Trump's second administration, but they've remained present in Donald Trump's political orbit.While Ivanka Trump opted out of the 2024 campaign trail, she and Kushner still appeared at the Republican National Convention, Donald Trump's victory party on election night, and the inauguration. Kushner also reportedly served as an informal advisor ahead of Donald Trump's trip to the Middle East in May, CNN reported.Ivanka Trump, who is Donald Trump's eldest daughter, converted to Judaism before marrying Kushner in 2009. They have three children: Arabella, Joseph, and Theodore.Here's a timeline of Ivanka Trump and Kushner's relationship.

    2007: Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner met at a networking lunch arranged by one of her longtime business partners.

    Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner in 2007.

    PAUL LAURIE/Patrick McMullan via Getty Images

    Ivanka Trump and Kushner were both 25 at the time."They very innocently set us up thinking that our only interest in one another would be transactional," Ivanka Trump told Vogue in 2015. "Whenever we see them we're like, 'The best deal we ever made!'"

    2008: Ivanka Trump and Kushner broke up because of religious differences.

    Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump in 2008.

    Patrick McMullan/Patrick McMullan via Getty Images

    Kushner was raised in the modern Orthodox Jewish tradition, and it was important to his family for him to marry someone Jewish. Ivanka Trump's family is Presbyterian.

    2008: Three months later, the couple rekindled their romance on Rupert Murdoch's yacht.

    Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner in 2008.

    David X Prutting/Patrick McMullan/Patrick McMullan via Getty Images

    In his memoir, "Breaking History," Kushner wrote that Murdoch's then-wife, Wendi Murdoch, was a mutual friend who invited them both on the yacht.

    May 2009: They attended the Met Gala together for the first time.

    Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump at the Met Gala.

    BILLY FARRELL/Patrick McMullan via Getty Images

    The theme of the Met Gala that year was "The Model As Muse." Ivanka Trump wore a gown by designer Brian Reyes.

    July 2009: Ivanka Trump completed her conversion to Judaism, and she and Kushner got engaged.

    Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump in 2009.

    Billy Farrell/Patrick McMullan/Patrick McMullan via Getty Images

    Kushner proposed with a 5.22-carat cushion-cut diamond engagement ring.Ivanka Trump told New York Magazine that she and her fiancé were "very mellow.""We go to the park. We go biking together. We go to the 2nd Avenue Deli," she said. "We both live in this fancy world. But on a personal level, I don't think I could be with somebody — I know he couldn't be with somebody — who needed to be 'on' all the time."

    October 2009: Ivanka Trump and Kushner married at the Trump National Golf Club in New Jersey.

    Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump on their wedding day.

    Brian Marcus/Fred Marcus Photography via Getty Images

    The couple invited 500 guests, including celebrities like Barbara Walters, Regis Philbin, and Anna Wintour, as well as politicians such as Rudy Giuliani and Andrew Cuomo.

    July 2011: The couple welcomed their first child, Arabella.

    Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner with Arabella Kushner.

    Robin Marchant/Getty Images

    "This morning @jaredkushner and I welcomed a beautiful and healthy little baby girl into the world," Ivanka announced on X, then Twitter. "We feel incredibly grateful and blessed. Thank you all for your support and well wishes!"

    October 2013: Ivanka Trump gave birth to their second child, Joseph.

    Ivanka Trump with Arabella Rose Kushner and Joseph Frederick Kushner in 2017.

    Alo Ceballos/GC Images

    He was named for Kushner's paternal grandfather Joseph and given the middle name Frederick after Donald Trump's father.

    March 2016: Kushner and Ivanka Trump welcomed their third child, Theodore, in the midst of Donald Trump's presidential campaign.

    Ivanka Trump carried her son Theodore as she held hands with Joseph alongside Jared Kushner and daughter Arabella on the White House lawn.

    SAUL LOEB/AFP via Getty Images

    "I said, 'Ivanka, it would be great if you had your baby in Iowa.' I really want that to happen. I really want that to happen," Donald Trump told supporters in Iowa in January 2016.All three of the couple's children were born in New York City.

    May 2016: They attended the Met Gala two months after Ivanka Trump gave birth.

    Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump attend the Met Gala.

    Kevin Mazur/WireImage

    Ivanka Trump wore a red Ralph Lauren Collection halter jumpsuit.On a 2017 episode of "The Late Late Show with James Corden," Anna Wintour said that she would never invite Donald Trump to another Met Gala.

    January 2017: Ivanka Trump and Kushner attended Donald Trump's inauguration and danced together at the Liberty Ball.

    Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner on Inauguration Day.

    Photo by Rob Carr/Getty Images

    The Liberty Ball was the first of three inaugural balls that Donald Trump attended.

    January 2017: After the inauguration, Ivanka and Kushner relocated to a million home in the Kalorama section of Washington, DC.

    Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump's house in Washington, DC.

    PAUL J. RICHARDS/AFP via Getty Images

    Ivanka Trump and Kushner rented the 7,000-square-foot home from billionaire Andrónico Luksic for a month, The Wall Street Journal reported.

    May 2017: They accompanied Donald Trump on his first overseas trip in office.

    Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump with Pope Francis.

    Vatican Pool - Corbis/Corbis via Getty Images

    Kushner and Ivanka Trump both served as advisors to the president. For the first overseas trip of Donald Trump's presidency, they accompanied him to Saudi Arabia, Israel, the Vatican, and summits in Brussels and Sicily.

    October 2019: The couple celebrated their 10th wedding anniversary with a lavish party at Camp David.

    Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner at a state dinner.

    MANDEL NGAN/AFP via Getty Images

    All of the Trump and Kushner siblings were in attendance. A White House official told CNN that the couple was covering the cost of the party, but Donald Trump tweeted that the cost would be "totally paid for by me!"

    August 2020: Ivanka Trump spoke about moving their family to Washington, DC, at the Republican National Convention.

    Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump at the Republican National Convention.

    SAUL LOEB/AFP via Getty Images

    "When Jared and I moved with our three children to Washington, we didn't exactly know what we were in for," she said in her speech. "But our kids loved it from the start."

    December 2020: Ivanka Trump and Kushner reportedly bought a million empty lot in Miami's "Billionaire Bunker."

    Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump's plot of land in Indian Creek Village.

    The Jills Zeder Group; Samir Hussein/WireImage/Getty Images

    After Donald Trump lost the 2020 election, Page Six reported that the couple purchased a 1.8-acre waterfront lot owned by singer Julio Iglesias, Enrique Iglesias' father, in Indian Creek Village, Florida.The island where it sits has the nickname "Billionaire Bunker" thanks to its multitude of ultra-wealthy residents over the years, including billionaire investor Carl Icahn, supermodel Adriana Lima, and former Miami Dolphins coach Don Shula.

    January 2021: They skipped Joe Biden's inauguration, flying with Donald Trump to his Mar-a-Lago residence in Palm Beach, Florida, instead.

    Ivanka Trump, Jared Kushner, and their children prepared for Donald Trump's departure on Inauguration Day.

    ALEX EDELMAN/AFP via Getty Images

    Donald Trump did not attend Biden's inauguration, breaking a long-standing norm in US democracy. While initial reports said that Ivanka Trump was planning to attend the inauguration, a White House official told People magazine that "Ivanka is not expected to attend the inauguration nor was she ever expected to."

    January 2021: The couple signed a lease for a luxury Miami Beach condo near their Indian Creek Village property.

    Arte Surfside.

    Antonio Citterio Patricia Viel

    Ivanka Trump and Kushner signed a lease for a "large, unfurnished unit" in the amenities-packed Arte Surfside condominium building in Surfside, Florida.Surfside, a beachside town just north of Miami Beach that's home to fewer than 6,000 people, is only a five-minute drive from Indian Creek Island, where they bought their million empty lot.

    April 2021: Ivanka Trump and Kushner reportedly added a million mansion in Indian Creek Village to their Florida real-estate profile.

    Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner on a walk in Florida.

    MEGA/GC Images

    The Real Deal reported that Ivanka and Kushner purchased another Indian Creek property — this time, a 8,510-square-foot mansion situated on a 1.3-acre estate.

    June 2021: Several outlets reported that the couple began to distance themselves from Donald Trump due to his fixation on conspiracy theories about the 2020 election.

    Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner behind Donald Trump.

    Kevin Lamarque/Reuters

    CNN reported that Trump was prone to complain about the 2020 election and falsely claim it was "stolen" from him to anyone listening and that his "frustrations emerge in fits and starts — more likely when he is discussing his hopeful return to national politics."While Ivanka and Kushner had been living in their Miami Beach condo, not far from Trump's Mar-a-Lago club in Palm Beach, Florida, they'd visited Trump less and less frequently and were absent from big events at Mar-a-Lago, CNN said.The New York Times also reported that Kushner wanted "to focus on writing his book and establishing a simpler relationship" with the former president.

    October 2021: Ivanka Trump and Kushner visited Israel's parliament for the inaugural event of the Abraham Accords Caucus.

    Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump in Israel.

    AHMAD GHARABLI/AFP via Getty Images

    The Abraham Accords, which Kushner helped broker in August 2020, normalized relations between Israel and the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Sudan, and Morocco.During their visit, Ivanka Trump and Kushner met with then-former Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and attended an event at the Museum of Tolerance Jerusalem with former US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.

    August 2022: Kushner released his memoir, "Breaking History," in which he wrote about their courtship.

    Jared Kushner.

    John Lamparski/Getty Images for Concordia Summit

    "In addition to being arrestingly beautiful, which I knew before we met, she was warm, funny, and brilliant," he wrote of getting to know Ivanka Trump. "She has a big heart and a tremendous zest for exploring new things."He also wrote that when he told Donald Trump that he was planning a surprise engagement, Trump "picked up the intercom and alerted Ivanka that she should expect an imminent proposal."

    November 2022: Kushner attended Donald Trump's 2024 campaign announcement without Ivanka Trump.

    Kimberly Guilfoyle, Jared Kushner, Eric Trump, and Lara Trump at Donald Trump's presidential campaign announcement.

    Jonathan Ernst/Reuters

    Ivanka Trump released a statement explaining her absence from the event."I love my father very much," her statement read. "This time around, I am choosing to prioritize my children and the private life we are creating as a family. I do not plan to be involved in politics. While I will always love and support my father, going forward I will do so outside the political arena."

    July 2024: Ivanka Trump and Kushner made a rare political appearance at the Republican National Convention.

    Donald Trump and Melania Trump onstage with Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner.

    Jason Armond/Los Angeles Times via Getty Images

    Ivanka Trump did not campaign for her father or give a speech as she had at past Republican National Conventions, but she and Jared Kushner joined Trump family members onstage after Donald Trump's remarks.

    November 2024: They joined members of the Trump family in Palm Beach, Florida, to celebrate Donald Trump's election victory.
    #timeline #ivanka #trump #jared #kushner039s
    A timeline of Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner's relationship
    Ivanka Trump has made it clear that she's done with politics. That hasn't stopped her and husband Jared Kushner from remaining an influential political couple.They have not formally reprised their roles as White House advisors in President Donald Trump's second administration, but they've remained present in Donald Trump's political orbit.While Ivanka Trump opted out of the 2024 campaign trail, she and Kushner still appeared at the Republican National Convention, Donald Trump's victory party on election night, and the inauguration. Kushner also reportedly served as an informal advisor ahead of Donald Trump's trip to the Middle East in May, CNN reported.Ivanka Trump, who is Donald Trump's eldest daughter, converted to Judaism before marrying Kushner in 2009. They have three children: Arabella, Joseph, and Theodore.Here's a timeline of Ivanka Trump and Kushner's relationship. 2007: Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner met at a networking lunch arranged by one of her longtime business partners. Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner in 2007. PAUL LAURIE/Patrick McMullan via Getty Images Ivanka Trump and Kushner were both 25 at the time."They very innocently set us up thinking that our only interest in one another would be transactional," Ivanka Trump told Vogue in 2015. "Whenever we see them we're like, 'The best deal we ever made!'" 2008: Ivanka Trump and Kushner broke up because of religious differences. Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump in 2008. Patrick McMullan/Patrick McMullan via Getty Images Kushner was raised in the modern Orthodox Jewish tradition, and it was important to his family for him to marry someone Jewish. Ivanka Trump's family is Presbyterian. 2008: Three months later, the couple rekindled their romance on Rupert Murdoch's yacht. Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner in 2008. David X Prutting/Patrick McMullan/Patrick McMullan via Getty Images In his memoir, "Breaking History," Kushner wrote that Murdoch's then-wife, Wendi Murdoch, was a mutual friend who invited them both on the yacht. May 2009: They attended the Met Gala together for the first time. Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump at the Met Gala. BILLY FARRELL/Patrick McMullan via Getty Images The theme of the Met Gala that year was "The Model As Muse." Ivanka Trump wore a gown by designer Brian Reyes. July 2009: Ivanka Trump completed her conversion to Judaism, and she and Kushner got engaged. Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump in 2009. Billy Farrell/Patrick McMullan/Patrick McMullan via Getty Images Kushner proposed with a 5.22-carat cushion-cut diamond engagement ring.Ivanka Trump told New York Magazine that she and her fiancé were "very mellow.""We go to the park. We go biking together. We go to the 2nd Avenue Deli," she said. "We both live in this fancy world. But on a personal level, I don't think I could be with somebody — I know he couldn't be with somebody — who needed to be 'on' all the time." October 2009: Ivanka Trump and Kushner married at the Trump National Golf Club in New Jersey. Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump on their wedding day. Brian Marcus/Fred Marcus Photography via Getty Images The couple invited 500 guests, including celebrities like Barbara Walters, Regis Philbin, and Anna Wintour, as well as politicians such as Rudy Giuliani and Andrew Cuomo. July 2011: The couple welcomed their first child, Arabella. Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner with Arabella Kushner. Robin Marchant/Getty Images "This morning @jaredkushner and I welcomed a beautiful and healthy little baby girl into the world," Ivanka announced on X, then Twitter. "We feel incredibly grateful and blessed. Thank you all for your support and well wishes!" October 2013: Ivanka Trump gave birth to their second child, Joseph. Ivanka Trump with Arabella Rose Kushner and Joseph Frederick Kushner in 2017. Alo Ceballos/GC Images He was named for Kushner's paternal grandfather Joseph and given the middle name Frederick after Donald Trump's father. March 2016: Kushner and Ivanka Trump welcomed their third child, Theodore, in the midst of Donald Trump's presidential campaign. Ivanka Trump carried her son Theodore as she held hands with Joseph alongside Jared Kushner and daughter Arabella on the White House lawn. SAUL LOEB/AFP via Getty Images "I said, 'Ivanka, it would be great if you had your baby in Iowa.' I really want that to happen. I really want that to happen," Donald Trump told supporters in Iowa in January 2016.All three of the couple's children were born in New York City. May 2016: They attended the Met Gala two months after Ivanka Trump gave birth. Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump attend the Met Gala. Kevin Mazur/WireImage Ivanka Trump wore a red Ralph Lauren Collection halter jumpsuit.On a 2017 episode of "The Late Late Show with James Corden," Anna Wintour said that she would never invite Donald Trump to another Met Gala. January 2017: Ivanka Trump and Kushner attended Donald Trump's inauguration and danced together at the Liberty Ball. Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner on Inauguration Day. Photo by Rob Carr/Getty Images The Liberty Ball was the first of three inaugural balls that Donald Trump attended. January 2017: After the inauguration, Ivanka and Kushner relocated to a million home in the Kalorama section of Washington, DC. Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump's house in Washington, DC. PAUL J. RICHARDS/AFP via Getty Images Ivanka Trump and Kushner rented the 7,000-square-foot home from billionaire Andrónico Luksic for a month, The Wall Street Journal reported. May 2017: They accompanied Donald Trump on his first overseas trip in office. Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump with Pope Francis. Vatican Pool - Corbis/Corbis via Getty Images Kushner and Ivanka Trump both served as advisors to the president. For the first overseas trip of Donald Trump's presidency, they accompanied him to Saudi Arabia, Israel, the Vatican, and summits in Brussels and Sicily. October 2019: The couple celebrated their 10th wedding anniversary with a lavish party at Camp David. Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner at a state dinner. MANDEL NGAN/AFP via Getty Images All of the Trump and Kushner siblings were in attendance. A White House official told CNN that the couple was covering the cost of the party, but Donald Trump tweeted that the cost would be "totally paid for by me!" August 2020: Ivanka Trump spoke about moving their family to Washington, DC, at the Republican National Convention. Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump at the Republican National Convention. SAUL LOEB/AFP via Getty Images "When Jared and I moved with our three children to Washington, we didn't exactly know what we were in for," she said in her speech. "But our kids loved it from the start." December 2020: Ivanka Trump and Kushner reportedly bought a million empty lot in Miami's "Billionaire Bunker." Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump's plot of land in Indian Creek Village. The Jills Zeder Group; Samir Hussein/WireImage/Getty Images After Donald Trump lost the 2020 election, Page Six reported that the couple purchased a 1.8-acre waterfront lot owned by singer Julio Iglesias, Enrique Iglesias' father, in Indian Creek Village, Florida.The island where it sits has the nickname "Billionaire Bunker" thanks to its multitude of ultra-wealthy residents over the years, including billionaire investor Carl Icahn, supermodel Adriana Lima, and former Miami Dolphins coach Don Shula. January 2021: They skipped Joe Biden's inauguration, flying with Donald Trump to his Mar-a-Lago residence in Palm Beach, Florida, instead. Ivanka Trump, Jared Kushner, and their children prepared for Donald Trump's departure on Inauguration Day. ALEX EDELMAN/AFP via Getty Images Donald Trump did not attend Biden's inauguration, breaking a long-standing norm in US democracy. While initial reports said that Ivanka Trump was planning to attend the inauguration, a White House official told People magazine that "Ivanka is not expected to attend the inauguration nor was she ever expected to." January 2021: The couple signed a lease for a luxury Miami Beach condo near their Indian Creek Village property. Arte Surfside. Antonio Citterio Patricia Viel Ivanka Trump and Kushner signed a lease for a "large, unfurnished unit" in the amenities-packed Arte Surfside condominium building in Surfside, Florida.Surfside, a beachside town just north of Miami Beach that's home to fewer than 6,000 people, is only a five-minute drive from Indian Creek Island, where they bought their million empty lot. April 2021: Ivanka Trump and Kushner reportedly added a million mansion in Indian Creek Village to their Florida real-estate profile. Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner on a walk in Florida. MEGA/GC Images The Real Deal reported that Ivanka and Kushner purchased another Indian Creek property — this time, a 8,510-square-foot mansion situated on a 1.3-acre estate. June 2021: Several outlets reported that the couple began to distance themselves from Donald Trump due to his fixation on conspiracy theories about the 2020 election. Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner behind Donald Trump. Kevin Lamarque/Reuters CNN reported that Trump was prone to complain about the 2020 election and falsely claim it was "stolen" from him to anyone listening and that his "frustrations emerge in fits and starts — more likely when he is discussing his hopeful return to national politics."While Ivanka and Kushner had been living in their Miami Beach condo, not far from Trump's Mar-a-Lago club in Palm Beach, Florida, they'd visited Trump less and less frequently and were absent from big events at Mar-a-Lago, CNN said.The New York Times also reported that Kushner wanted "to focus on writing his book and establishing a simpler relationship" with the former president. October 2021: Ivanka Trump and Kushner visited Israel's parliament for the inaugural event of the Abraham Accords Caucus. Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump in Israel. AHMAD GHARABLI/AFP via Getty Images The Abraham Accords, which Kushner helped broker in August 2020, normalized relations between Israel and the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Sudan, and Morocco.During their visit, Ivanka Trump and Kushner met with then-former Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and attended an event at the Museum of Tolerance Jerusalem with former US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. August 2022: Kushner released his memoir, "Breaking History," in which he wrote about their courtship. Jared Kushner. John Lamparski/Getty Images for Concordia Summit "In addition to being arrestingly beautiful, which I knew before we met, she was warm, funny, and brilliant," he wrote of getting to know Ivanka Trump. "She has a big heart and a tremendous zest for exploring new things."He also wrote that when he told Donald Trump that he was planning a surprise engagement, Trump "picked up the intercom and alerted Ivanka that she should expect an imminent proposal." November 2022: Kushner attended Donald Trump's 2024 campaign announcement without Ivanka Trump. Kimberly Guilfoyle, Jared Kushner, Eric Trump, and Lara Trump at Donald Trump's presidential campaign announcement. Jonathan Ernst/Reuters Ivanka Trump released a statement explaining her absence from the event."I love my father very much," her statement read. "This time around, I am choosing to prioritize my children and the private life we are creating as a family. I do not plan to be involved in politics. While I will always love and support my father, going forward I will do so outside the political arena." July 2024: Ivanka Trump and Kushner made a rare political appearance at the Republican National Convention. Donald Trump and Melania Trump onstage with Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner. Jason Armond/Los Angeles Times via Getty Images Ivanka Trump did not campaign for her father or give a speech as she had at past Republican National Conventions, but she and Jared Kushner joined Trump family members onstage after Donald Trump's remarks. November 2024: They joined members of the Trump family in Palm Beach, Florida, to celebrate Donald Trump's election victory. #timeline #ivanka #trump #jared #kushner039s
    WWW.BUSINESSINSIDER.COM
    A timeline of Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner's relationship
    Ivanka Trump has made it clear that she's done with politics. That hasn't stopped her and husband Jared Kushner from remaining an influential political couple.They have not formally reprised their roles as White House advisors in President Donald Trump's second administration, but they've remained present in Donald Trump's political orbit.While Ivanka Trump opted out of the 2024 campaign trail, she and Kushner still appeared at the Republican National Convention, Donald Trump's victory party on election night, and the inauguration. Kushner also reportedly served as an informal advisor ahead of Donald Trump's trip to the Middle East in May, CNN reported.Ivanka Trump, who is Donald Trump's eldest daughter, converted to Judaism before marrying Kushner in 2009. They have three children: Arabella, Joseph, and Theodore.Here's a timeline of Ivanka Trump and Kushner's relationship. 2007: Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner met at a networking lunch arranged by one of her longtime business partners. Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner in 2007. PAUL LAURIE/Patrick McMullan via Getty Images Ivanka Trump and Kushner were both 25 at the time."They very innocently set us up thinking that our only interest in one another would be transactional," Ivanka Trump told Vogue in 2015. "Whenever we see them we're like, 'The best deal we ever made!'" 2008: Ivanka Trump and Kushner broke up because of religious differences. Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump in 2008. Patrick McMullan/Patrick McMullan via Getty Images Kushner was raised in the modern Orthodox Jewish tradition, and it was important to his family for him to marry someone Jewish. Ivanka Trump's family is Presbyterian. 2008: Three months later, the couple rekindled their romance on Rupert Murdoch's yacht. Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner in 2008. David X Prutting/Patrick McMullan/Patrick McMullan via Getty Images In his memoir, "Breaking History," Kushner wrote that Murdoch's then-wife, Wendi Murdoch, was a mutual friend who invited them both on the yacht. May 2009: They attended the Met Gala together for the first time. Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump at the Met Gala. BILLY FARRELL/Patrick McMullan via Getty Images The theme of the Met Gala that year was "The Model As Muse." Ivanka Trump wore a gown by designer Brian Reyes. July 2009: Ivanka Trump completed her conversion to Judaism, and she and Kushner got engaged. Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump in 2009. Billy Farrell/Patrick McMullan/Patrick McMullan via Getty Images Kushner proposed with a 5.22-carat cushion-cut diamond engagement ring.Ivanka Trump told New York Magazine that she and her fiancé were "very mellow.""We go to the park. We go biking together. We go to the 2nd Avenue Deli," she said. "We both live in this fancy world. But on a personal level, I don't think I could be with somebody — I know he couldn't be with somebody — who needed to be 'on' all the time." October 2009: Ivanka Trump and Kushner married at the Trump National Golf Club in New Jersey. Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump on their wedding day. Brian Marcus/Fred Marcus Photography via Getty Images The couple invited 500 guests, including celebrities like Barbara Walters, Regis Philbin, and Anna Wintour, as well as politicians such as Rudy Giuliani and Andrew Cuomo. July 2011: The couple welcomed their first child, Arabella. Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner with Arabella Kushner. Robin Marchant/Getty Images "This morning @jaredkushner and I welcomed a beautiful and healthy little baby girl into the world," Ivanka announced on X, then Twitter. "We feel incredibly grateful and blessed. Thank you all for your support and well wishes!" October 2013: Ivanka Trump gave birth to their second child, Joseph. Ivanka Trump with Arabella Rose Kushner and Joseph Frederick Kushner in 2017. Alo Ceballos/GC Images He was named for Kushner's paternal grandfather Joseph and given the middle name Frederick after Donald Trump's father. March 2016: Kushner and Ivanka Trump welcomed their third child, Theodore, in the midst of Donald Trump's presidential campaign. Ivanka Trump carried her son Theodore as she held hands with Joseph alongside Jared Kushner and daughter Arabella on the White House lawn. SAUL LOEB/AFP via Getty Images "I said, 'Ivanka, it would be great if you had your baby in Iowa.' I really want that to happen. I really want that to happen," Donald Trump told supporters in Iowa in January 2016.All three of the couple's children were born in New York City. May 2016: They attended the Met Gala two months after Ivanka Trump gave birth. Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump attend the Met Gala. Kevin Mazur/WireImage Ivanka Trump wore a red Ralph Lauren Collection halter jumpsuit.On a 2017 episode of "The Late Late Show with James Corden," Anna Wintour said that she would never invite Donald Trump to another Met Gala. January 2017: Ivanka Trump and Kushner attended Donald Trump's inauguration and danced together at the Liberty Ball. Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner on Inauguration Day. Photo by Rob Carr/Getty Images The Liberty Ball was the first of three inaugural balls that Donald Trump attended. January 2017: After the inauguration, Ivanka and Kushner relocated to a $5.5 million home in the Kalorama section of Washington, DC. Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump's house in Washington, DC. PAUL J. RICHARDS/AFP via Getty Images Ivanka Trump and Kushner rented the 7,000-square-foot home from billionaire Andrónico Luksic for $15,000 a month, The Wall Street Journal reported. May 2017: They accompanied Donald Trump on his first overseas trip in office. Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump with Pope Francis. Vatican Pool - Corbis/Corbis via Getty Images Kushner and Ivanka Trump both served as advisors to the president. For the first overseas trip of Donald Trump's presidency, they accompanied him to Saudi Arabia, Israel, the Vatican, and summits in Brussels and Sicily. October 2019: The couple celebrated their 10th wedding anniversary with a lavish party at Camp David. Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner at a state dinner. MANDEL NGAN/AFP via Getty Images All of the Trump and Kushner siblings were in attendance. A White House official told CNN that the couple was covering the cost of the party, but Donald Trump tweeted that the cost would be "totally paid for by me!" August 2020: Ivanka Trump spoke about moving their family to Washington, DC, at the Republican National Convention. Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump at the Republican National Convention. SAUL LOEB/AFP via Getty Images "When Jared and I moved with our three children to Washington, we didn't exactly know what we were in for," she said in her speech. "But our kids loved it from the start." December 2020: Ivanka Trump and Kushner reportedly bought a $32 million empty lot in Miami's "Billionaire Bunker." Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump's plot of land in Indian Creek Village. The Jills Zeder Group; Samir Hussein/WireImage/Getty Images After Donald Trump lost the 2020 election, Page Six reported that the couple purchased a 1.8-acre waterfront lot owned by singer Julio Iglesias, Enrique Iglesias' father, in Indian Creek Village, Florida.The island where it sits has the nickname "Billionaire Bunker" thanks to its multitude of ultra-wealthy residents over the years, including billionaire investor Carl Icahn, supermodel Adriana Lima, and former Miami Dolphins coach Don Shula. January 2021: They skipped Joe Biden's inauguration, flying with Donald Trump to his Mar-a-Lago residence in Palm Beach, Florida, instead. Ivanka Trump, Jared Kushner, and their children prepared for Donald Trump's departure on Inauguration Day. ALEX EDELMAN/AFP via Getty Images Donald Trump did not attend Biden's inauguration, breaking a long-standing norm in US democracy. While initial reports said that Ivanka Trump was planning to attend the inauguration, a White House official told People magazine that "Ivanka is not expected to attend the inauguration nor was she ever expected to." January 2021: The couple signed a lease for a luxury Miami Beach condo near their Indian Creek Village property. Arte Surfside. Antonio Citterio Patricia Viel Ivanka Trump and Kushner signed a lease for a "large, unfurnished unit" in the amenities-packed Arte Surfside condominium building in Surfside, Florida.Surfside, a beachside town just north of Miami Beach that's home to fewer than 6,000 people, is only a five-minute drive from Indian Creek Island, where they bought their $32 million empty lot. April 2021: Ivanka Trump and Kushner reportedly added a $24 million mansion in Indian Creek Village to their Florida real-estate profile. Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner on a walk in Florida. MEGA/GC Images The Real Deal reported that Ivanka and Kushner purchased another Indian Creek property — this time, a 8,510-square-foot mansion situated on a 1.3-acre estate. June 2021: Several outlets reported that the couple began to distance themselves from Donald Trump due to his fixation on conspiracy theories about the 2020 election. Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner behind Donald Trump. Kevin Lamarque/Reuters CNN reported that Trump was prone to complain about the 2020 election and falsely claim it was "stolen" from him to anyone listening and that his "frustrations emerge in fits and starts — more likely when he is discussing his hopeful return to national politics."While Ivanka and Kushner had been living in their Miami Beach condo, not far from Trump's Mar-a-Lago club in Palm Beach, Florida, they'd visited Trump less and less frequently and were absent from big events at Mar-a-Lago, CNN said.The New York Times also reported that Kushner wanted "to focus on writing his book and establishing a simpler relationship" with the former president. October 2021: Ivanka Trump and Kushner visited Israel's parliament for the inaugural event of the Abraham Accords Caucus. Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump in Israel. AHMAD GHARABLI/AFP via Getty Images The Abraham Accords, which Kushner helped broker in August 2020, normalized relations between Israel and the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Sudan, and Morocco.During their visit, Ivanka Trump and Kushner met with then-former Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and attended an event at the Museum of Tolerance Jerusalem with former US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. August 2022: Kushner released his memoir, "Breaking History," in which he wrote about their courtship. Jared Kushner. John Lamparski/Getty Images for Concordia Summit "In addition to being arrestingly beautiful, which I knew before we met, she was warm, funny, and brilliant," he wrote of getting to know Ivanka Trump. "She has a big heart and a tremendous zest for exploring new things."He also wrote that when he told Donald Trump that he was planning a surprise engagement, Trump "picked up the intercom and alerted Ivanka that she should expect an imminent proposal." November 2022: Kushner attended Donald Trump's 2024 campaign announcement without Ivanka Trump. Kimberly Guilfoyle, Jared Kushner, Eric Trump, and Lara Trump at Donald Trump's presidential campaign announcement. Jonathan Ernst/Reuters Ivanka Trump released a statement explaining her absence from the event."I love my father very much," her statement read. "This time around, I am choosing to prioritize my children and the private life we are creating as a family. I do not plan to be involved in politics. While I will always love and support my father, going forward I will do so outside the political arena." July 2024: Ivanka Trump and Kushner made a rare political appearance at the Republican National Convention. Donald Trump and Melania Trump onstage with Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner. Jason Armond/Los Angeles Times via Getty Images Ivanka Trump did not campaign for her father or give a speech as she had at past Republican National Conventions, but she and Jared Kushner joined Trump family members onstage after Donald Trump's remarks. November 2024: They joined members of the Trump family in Palm Beach, Florida, to celebrate Donald Trump's election victory.
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  • IGN: Activision Quietly Force Adverts into Call of Duty Black Ops 6 and Warzone Loadouts and Players Absolutely Hate It

    Xando
    Member

    Oct 28, 2017

    38,006

    With the launch of Call of Duty Season 4, Activision quietly put adverts inside loadouts for Black Ops 6 and Warzone, sparking a backlash in the process.

    Activision already has a bad reputation for the aggressive monetization of the premium Black Ops 6 and its free-to-play battle royale Warzone, but this latest move may have tipped some players over the edge.

    Following the launch of Season 4, adverts for weapon bundles can be seen in the build and weapon menus. These are unavoidable for players as they tinker with their loadouts.

    Elsewhere, Activision has added bundle and Battle Pass advertisements to the Events tab, another controversial change that has caused complaints.

    Here's a snippet of the response, sourced from across Call of Duty subreddits, Discords, and social media:

    I wouldn't even be mad if this was just in Warzone, a free game, but putting it in a pay-to-play premium title, with how expensive they're getting? F**k off.
    This game is still 80€ I get that they make most of their money from the store, but I feel like the bare minimum for a premium product would be to not have ads clogging the menus right?
    At this point it really feels like opening up a mobile game with how much more you see an option to buy anything in this game.
    Anyone who wanted this bundle would've checked the store and bought it. Putting it here isn't gonna make more people buy it, its justannoying.
    Just wait until they add pop up ads for bundles while you are playing the game.

    Click to expand...
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    More including some examples here:

    Activision Quietly Force Adverts into Call of Duty Black Ops 6 and Warzone Loadouts and Players Absolutely Hate It: 'At This Point It Really Feels Like Opening Up a Mobile Game' - IGN

    With the launch of Call of Duty Season 4, Activision quietly put adverts inside loadouts for Black Ops 6 and Warzone, sparking a backlash in the process.

    www.ign.com

     

    Gaspode
    Member

    Jan 17, 2025

    152

    gross
     

    MarcosBrXD
    Member

    Aug 28, 2024

    1,779

    Crazy one of the biggest IPs doing this
     

    Wallace
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    28,182

    Midwest

    What a shit franchise.
     

    Shirkelton
    Member

    Aug 20, 2020

    6,976

    Fuck that.
     

    MinerArcaniner
    Uncle Works at Nintendo
    Member

    Oct 29, 2017

    7,473

    The revenue line has to keep going up. There's no such thing as "enough" with corporations.
     

    Kinthey
    Avenger

    Oct 27, 2017

    25,551

    Poor Cod really needs the money to keep the lights on
     

    skullmuffins
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    7,615

    oh, ads for in-game microtransactions. guess i'm not surprised. that's where all the money is these days.
     

    Remark
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    4,184

    Yeah the ads are so bad this season.

    When you boot up the game in CoD HQ, theres a big ass button for Blackcell and BO6 and WZ are all the way on the right side of the menu. It's so annoying. Huge disrespect to the people who actually bought the game.

    I wish CoD HQ would go away, it doesn't even actually help with anything and actually hampers the UX experience in a lot of ways especially on PC. 

    Last edited: Today at 10:14 AM

    LiquidDom
    Avenger

    Oct 27, 2017

    2,730

    Wait it's just ads for the in-game purchases? Not outside ads that have nothing to do with the game?

    I don't have that much of an issue with it, still shit though. 

    Richietto
    One Winged Slayer
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    26,147

    North Carolina

    Lmao what a joke
     

    Loxley
    Prophet of Truth
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    10,702

    We're inching closer and closer to this scene from Ready Player One.

    "We estimate we can sell up to 80% of an individual's visual field before inducing seizures"

    View:  

    Fabs
    Member

    Aug 22, 2019

    2,780

    This doesn't seem that different than like Fortnite advertising the shop updates in the main menu. It's fairly harmless.
     

    Noisepurge
    Corrupted by Vengeance
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    9,775

    Fabs said:

    This doesn't seem that different than like Fortnite advertising the shop updates in the main menu. It's fairly harmless.

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Fortnite doesn't cost 80$ 

    OP

    OP

    Xando
    Member

    Oct 28, 2017

    38,006

    LiquidDom said:

    Wait it's just ads for the in-game purchases? Not outside ads that have nothing to do with the game?

    I don't have that much of an issue with it, still shit though.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Considering half of the in-game purchases are basically ads for some brands or characters that have nothing to do with COD it's basically the same thing
     

    Remark
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    4,184

    Noisepurge said:

    Fortnite doesn't cost 80$

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    To be fair, Warzone is F2P but that shit should be in there. Whether you buy the game or not, you have to go through CoD HQ which is so annoying.
     

    Doskoi Panda
    One Winged Slayer
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    17,314

    CoD is so fucking trashy lmao. I will never understand how it remains so popular. It just gets worse year over yesr, even Warzone.
     

    SunBroDave
    "This guy are sick"
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    15,148

    How else is COD supposed to make money
     

    Decarb
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    9,264

    Fabs said:

    This doesn't seem that different than like Fortnite advertising the shop updates in the main menu. It's fairly harmless.

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Not only is it in a full priced mode, but its also in the weapon customization menu where you least expect it.

     

    Agni Kai
    Member

    Nov 2, 2017

    10,037

    Only Battlefield 6 can save us now. Hold the line, my friends. Hold the line.
     

    jroc74
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    34,177

    Yeah I dont think it needs to be this aggressive.

    LiquidDom said:

    Wait it's just ads for the in-game purchases? Not outside ads that have nothing to do with the game?

    I don't have that much of an issue with it, still shit though.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Fabs said:

    This doesn't seem that different than like Fortnite advertising the shop updates in the main menu. It's fairly harmless.

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    While trying to play the game tho?

    "Following the launch of Season 4, adverts for weapon bundles can be seen in the build and weapon menus. These are unavoidable for players as they tinker with their loadouts."

    Imagine getting hit with Shark Card ads while browsing the in game stores in GTA Online....please Rockstar dont do this.

    Noisepurge said:

    Fortnite doesn't cost 80$

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Also this. 

    BradleyLove
    Member

    Oct 29, 2017

    1,661

    Doesn't surprise me. I bought Forza Horizon for PS5 a few days ago and was shocked to encounter unskippable ads for DLC. The American obsession with forcing ads everywhere they can is horrible.

    This reply was brought to you by NEW Mountain Dew—new look, same bold refreshing flavour. 

    TransEuropaExpress
    Member

    Dec 6, 2017

    11,420

    US

    They should go all in and start doing random 5-minute commercial breaks in the middle of rounds.
     

    Pyro
    God help us the mods are making weekend threads
    Member

    Jul 30, 2018

    18,922

    United States

    Really fucking gross.
     

    Vourlis
    Member

    Aug 14, 2022

    5,911

    United States

    I...where are the ads?

    edit: Oh like advertising the bundles or whatever. Okay. 

    jroc74
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    34,177

    BradleyLove said:

    Doesn't surprise me. I bought Forza Horizon for PS5 a few days ago and was shocked to encounter unskippable ads for DLC. The American obsession with forcing ads everywhere they can is horrible.

    This reply was brought to you by NEW Mountain Dew—new look, same bold refreshing flavour.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    I either forgot how it was or just didnt know, because I played it on XSX when it launched.

    But I was and am shocked at the mtx in FH5. 

    shadowman16
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    41,804

    I feel like this has already become too normalised because I honestly assumed we were talking about unrelated product ads... Meanwhile the examples above... honestly I kinda expected.

    Granted the article also points it out perfectly that if it were just in Warzoneit'd be... less bad, but charging however much for COD THEN pushing those ads on you... you just know people will crack.
    Not the worst example of ads in games though, I still give that to SFVI's Turtles costumes, aside the cost, having that damn song playing constantly in the battle hub for monthon end drove me nuts at the time. 

    Papaya
    The Fallen

    Oct 25, 2017

    2,735

    California

    The financial model for CoD is awful and lacks any sort of creativity. They just copied fortnite even though it doesn't work for a military shooter. They rarely release any good content because it either doesn't match the game's tone, or it sucks. It just doesn't lend itself well to skins, and other visual customization options. Or maybe they just don't know how to make good. Either way, I've never seen a more boring battlepass in my life.

    CoD can be a super fun action game, but it's never felt more hollow and lifeless. The best counter-example to "games are art" I've ever seen. 

    BestBrand
    Member

    Mar 5, 2025

    457

    Call of duty is the worst man. I may not even buy another COD again.
     

    MerluzaSamus
    Member

    Dec 3, 2018

    1,471

    Argentina

    Agni Kai said:

    Only Battlefield 6 can save us now. Hold the line, my friends. Hold the line.

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    The game published by EA to gather obscene money on the fps market? That one Battlefield?

    Jokes aside, 'fraid this is going to be the norm long term, Fortnite normalized it and publishers with less restraint are going wild, same with AI. At least on the AAA market. 

    Lumination
    Member

    Oct 26, 2017

    16,064

    Who could have expected them giving the game away would have affected the revenue stream and business model of the game itself.
     

    Geeko
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    1,413

    San Jose, CA

    Lame as hell. The problem is that the masses won't care about it and will still spend crap tons of money on this game thus continuing this constant bombardment of ads.
     

    shadowman16
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    41,804

    Agni Kai said:

    Only Battlefield 6 can save us now. Hold the line, my friends. Hold the line.

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Gameplay wise, Hopefully Dice will take the time and make something truly special.

    However... I wouldnt expect much better from EA of all publishers. They are every bit as summy... 

    OP

    OP

    Xando
    Member

    Oct 28, 2017

    38,006

    My guess is this is only going to get worse as MS tries to make up the lost revenue from people playing via GP instead of buying
     

    SP.
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    8,578

    I guess I thought it would be worse than the reaction seems to suggest…

    They're in-game micro transaction ads and for the most are for weapon skins which naturally don't seem that out of place in a weapon selection menu. It's not like they're advertising a Burger King Whopper in here. Obviously it'd be better if they weren't there at all but honestly if I played the game and saw these I wouldn't think it's anything out of the ordinary. 

    Ravelle
    Member

    Oct 31, 2017

    20,432

    Noisepurge said:

    Fortnite doesn't cost 80$

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    It doesn't spam you with multiple windows to buy something either 

    Rosebud
    Two Pieces
    Member

    Apr 16, 2018

    51,386

    Wallace said:

    What a shit franchise.

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    .
     

    Kyokanto
    Member

    Mar 4, 2025

    493

    For a second I thought this was going to be McDonald's ads or something lol. I wonder how far off that is…

    Still scummy as is. 

    Pop-O-Matic
    Avenger

    Oct 25, 2017

    14,007

    MarcosBrXD said:

    Crazy one of the biggest IPs doing this

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Not really. CoD might move more money than most of the rest of the industry put together, but capitalismdemands that the line must always be going up, and there isn't really much CoD can do to grow the player base in any significant way in the short-to-medium term, so they're going to start trying out shit like this to get even more money out of the existing players so the line goes up and the shareholders can be happy.
     

    Fabs
    Member

    Aug 22, 2019

    2,780

    Noisepurge said:

    Fortnite doesn't cost 80$

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Decarb said:

    Not only is it in a full priced mode, but its also in the weapon customization menu where you least expect it.

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    jroc74 said:

    Yeah I dont think it needs to be this aggressive.

    While trying to play the game tho?

    "Following the launch of Season 4, adverts for weapon bundles can be seen in the build and weapon menus. These are unavoidable for players as they tinker with their loadouts."

    Imagine getting hit with Shark Card ads while browsing the in game stores in GTA Online....please Rockstar dont do this.

    Also this.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Full priced games advertise their dlc in menus all the time. Is it because it's in a new place? Is this that different than having the paid operators in the menu for selection like they have in past CoD? Or when I play Street Fighter and I can't pick Akuma because he costs money? I get it if it was for McDonalds but this seems like rage bait. 

    Plexas
    Member

    Jan 24, 2025

    289

    Several trillion dollar company needs some money to survive, please understand.
     

    Twister
    Member

    Feb 11, 2019

    6,692

    This franchise peaked with BO3. Everything after has been a disaster
     

    Vertigo1
    Member

    Jun 30, 2023

    1,093

    CoD will never be as good as it was in the 360 era, ever again.
     

    Sordid Plebeian
    Member

    Oct 26, 2017

    19,955

    Yeah I remember seeing that AI store slop when I booted up S4, and they wonder why they're driving players away
     

    Tommy Showbiz
    Member

    Jul 20, 2022

    3,727

    This is pretty corny, but I was honestly expecting ads for like Dr. Squatch and not just prodding you to buy in-game bundles.
     

    Apathy
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    13,538

    So the biggest game, created by the biggest publisher, paced by the riches company in the world needs to slide ads into their paid games. Lovely
     

    DarkJ
    Member

    Nov 11, 2017

    1,918

    Ai slop? Ads in the menus? In a fully priced game?

    Really just making sure I don't even look at the next game. 

    T88heon
    Member

    Aug 26, 2024

    1,042

    This is a profitability issue coupled with horrendous stewardship of the ip.

    If the retail side was profitable would they need to stealthily run ads in "COD" of all ip?

     

    DSync
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    884

    Black Ops 6 in 2025 after the most recent update for Season 4

    > £70 for the base game
    > £100 for the "Vault Editon"
    > £50/60 for a year of PS Plus to play the game online
    > £10 for the Battlepass
    > £15 for the Battlepass plus tier skips
    > £25 for the "Blackcell" Battlepass
    > Free and PremiumBattlepasses for the Seth Rogan Operator Weed event
    > £16-25 Weapon and Operator bundles
    > AI art in the emblems, calling cards, posters in certain levels
    > Ads for bundles in creating a Loadout
    > Server instability issues
    > Whole game crashes to desktop/homescreen when editing your loadout during a match
    > UI Menu lagging
    > Cheaters, hackers run rampant
    > Store will 100% work no matter what 

    Pai Pai Master
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    37,298

    Atlanta GA

    AI crap and ads, yet people will still buy this shit in record numbers every year
     
    #ign #activision #quietly #force #adverts
    IGN: Activision Quietly Force Adverts into Call of Duty Black Ops 6 and Warzone Loadouts and Players Absolutely Hate It
    Xando Member Oct 28, 2017 38,006 With the launch of Call of Duty Season 4, Activision quietly put adverts inside loadouts for Black Ops 6 and Warzone, sparking a backlash in the process. Activision already has a bad reputation for the aggressive monetization of the premium Black Ops 6 and its free-to-play battle royale Warzone, but this latest move may have tipped some players over the edge. Following the launch of Season 4, adverts for weapon bundles can be seen in the build and weapon menus. These are unavoidable for players as they tinker with their loadouts. Elsewhere, Activision has added bundle and Battle Pass advertisements to the Events tab, another controversial change that has caused complaints. Here's a snippet of the response, sourced from across Call of Duty subreddits, Discords, and social media: I wouldn't even be mad if this was just in Warzone, a free game, but putting it in a pay-to-play premium title, with how expensive they're getting? F**k off. This game is still 80€ I get that they make most of their money from the store, but I feel like the bare minimum for a premium product would be to not have ads clogging the menus right? At this point it really feels like opening up a mobile game with how much more you see an option to buy anything in this game. Anyone who wanted this bundle would've checked the store and bought it. Putting it here isn't gonna make more people buy it, its justannoying. Just wait until they add pop up ads for bundles while you are playing the game. Click to expand... Click to shrink... More including some examples here: Activision Quietly Force Adverts into Call of Duty Black Ops 6 and Warzone Loadouts and Players Absolutely Hate It: 'At This Point It Really Feels Like Opening Up a Mobile Game' - IGN With the launch of Call of Duty Season 4, Activision quietly put adverts inside loadouts for Black Ops 6 and Warzone, sparking a backlash in the process. www.ign.com   Gaspode Member Jan 17, 2025 152 gross   MarcosBrXD Member Aug 28, 2024 1,779 Crazy one of the biggest IPs doing this   Wallace Member Oct 25, 2017 28,182 Midwest What a shit franchise.   Shirkelton Member Aug 20, 2020 6,976 Fuck that.   MinerArcaniner Uncle Works at Nintendo Member Oct 29, 2017 7,473 The revenue line has to keep going up. There's no such thing as "enough" with corporations.   Kinthey Avenger Oct 27, 2017 25,551 Poor Cod really needs the money to keep the lights on   skullmuffins Member Oct 25, 2017 7,615 oh, ads for in-game microtransactions. guess i'm not surprised. that's where all the money is these days.   Remark Member Oct 27, 2017 4,184 Yeah the ads are so bad this season. When you boot up the game in CoD HQ, theres a big ass button for Blackcell and BO6 and WZ are all the way on the right side of the menu. It's so annoying. Huge disrespect to the people who actually bought the game. I wish CoD HQ would go away, it doesn't even actually help with anything and actually hampers the UX experience in a lot of ways especially on PC.  Last edited: Today at 10:14 AM LiquidDom Avenger Oct 27, 2017 2,730 Wait it's just ads for the in-game purchases? Not outside ads that have nothing to do with the game? I don't have that much of an issue with it, still shit though.  Richietto One Winged Slayer Member Oct 25, 2017 26,147 North Carolina Lmao what a joke   Loxley Prophet of Truth Member Oct 25, 2017 10,702 We're inching closer and closer to this scene from Ready Player One. "We estimate we can sell up to 80% of an individual's visual field before inducing seizures" View:   Fabs Member Aug 22, 2019 2,780 This doesn't seem that different than like Fortnite advertising the shop updates in the main menu. It's fairly harmless.   Noisepurge Corrupted by Vengeance Member Oct 25, 2017 9,775 Fabs said: This doesn't seem that different than like Fortnite advertising the shop updates in the main menu. It's fairly harmless. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Fortnite doesn't cost 80$  OP OP Xando Member Oct 28, 2017 38,006 LiquidDom said: Wait it's just ads for the in-game purchases? Not outside ads that have nothing to do with the game? I don't have that much of an issue with it, still shit though. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Considering half of the in-game purchases are basically ads for some brands or characters that have nothing to do with COD it's basically the same thing   Remark Member Oct 27, 2017 4,184 Noisepurge said: Fortnite doesn't cost 80$ Click to expand... Click to shrink... To be fair, Warzone is F2P but that shit should be in there. Whether you buy the game or not, you have to go through CoD HQ which is so annoying.   Doskoi Panda One Winged Slayer Member Oct 27, 2017 17,314 CoD is so fucking trashy lmao. I will never understand how it remains so popular. It just gets worse year over yesr, even Warzone.   SunBroDave "This guy are sick" Member Oct 25, 2017 15,148 How else is COD supposed to make money   Decarb Member Oct 27, 2017 9,264 Fabs said: This doesn't seem that different than like Fortnite advertising the shop updates in the main menu. It's fairly harmless. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Not only is it in a full priced mode, but its also in the weapon customization menu where you least expect it.   Agni Kai Member Nov 2, 2017 10,037 Only Battlefield 6 can save us now. Hold the line, my friends. Hold the line.   jroc74 Member Oct 27, 2017 34,177 Yeah I dont think it needs to be this aggressive. LiquidDom said: Wait it's just ads for the in-game purchases? Not outside ads that have nothing to do with the game? I don't have that much of an issue with it, still shit though. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Fabs said: This doesn't seem that different than like Fortnite advertising the shop updates in the main menu. It's fairly harmless. Click to expand... Click to shrink... While trying to play the game tho? "Following the launch of Season 4, adverts for weapon bundles can be seen in the build and weapon menus. These are unavoidable for players as they tinker with their loadouts." Imagine getting hit with Shark Card ads while browsing the in game stores in GTA Online....please Rockstar dont do this. Noisepurge said: Fortnite doesn't cost 80$ Click to expand... Click to shrink... Also this.  BradleyLove Member Oct 29, 2017 1,661 Doesn't surprise me. I bought Forza Horizon for PS5 a few days ago and was shocked to encounter unskippable ads for DLC. The American obsession with forcing ads everywhere they can is horrible. This reply was brought to you by NEW Mountain Dew—new look, same bold refreshing flavour.  TransEuropaExpress Member Dec 6, 2017 11,420 US They should go all in and start doing random 5-minute commercial breaks in the middle of rounds.   Pyro God help us the mods are making weekend threads Member Jul 30, 2018 18,922 United States Really fucking gross.   Vourlis Member Aug 14, 2022 5,911 United States I...where are the ads? edit: Oh like advertising the bundles or whatever. Okay.  jroc74 Member Oct 27, 2017 34,177 BradleyLove said: Doesn't surprise me. I bought Forza Horizon for PS5 a few days ago and was shocked to encounter unskippable ads for DLC. The American obsession with forcing ads everywhere they can is horrible. This reply was brought to you by NEW Mountain Dew—new look, same bold refreshing flavour. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I either forgot how it was or just didnt know, because I played it on XSX when it launched. But I was and am shocked at the mtx in FH5.  shadowman16 Member Oct 25, 2017 41,804 I feel like this has already become too normalised because I honestly assumed we were talking about unrelated product ads... Meanwhile the examples above... honestly I kinda expected. Granted the article also points it out perfectly that if it were just in Warzoneit'd be... less bad, but charging however much for COD THEN pushing those ads on you... you just know people will crack. Not the worst example of ads in games though, I still give that to SFVI's Turtles costumes, aside the cost, having that damn song playing constantly in the battle hub for monthon end drove me nuts at the time.  Papaya The Fallen Oct 25, 2017 2,735 California The financial model for CoD is awful and lacks any sort of creativity. They just copied fortnite even though it doesn't work for a military shooter. They rarely release any good content because it either doesn't match the game's tone, or it sucks. It just doesn't lend itself well to skins, and other visual customization options. Or maybe they just don't know how to make good. Either way, I've never seen a more boring battlepass in my life. CoD can be a super fun action game, but it's never felt more hollow and lifeless. The best counter-example to "games are art" I've ever seen.  BestBrand Member Mar 5, 2025 457 Call of duty is the worst man. I may not even buy another COD again.   MerluzaSamus Member Dec 3, 2018 1,471 Argentina Agni Kai said: Only Battlefield 6 can save us now. Hold the line, my friends. Hold the line. Click to expand... Click to shrink... The game published by EA to gather obscene money on the fps market? That one Battlefield? Jokes aside, 'fraid this is going to be the norm long term, Fortnite normalized it and publishers with less restraint are going wild, same with AI. At least on the AAA market.  Lumination Member Oct 26, 2017 16,064 Who could have expected them giving the game away would have affected the revenue stream and business model of the game itself.   Geeko Member Oct 27, 2017 1,413 San Jose, CA Lame as hell. The problem is that the masses won't care about it and will still spend crap tons of money on this game thus continuing this constant bombardment of ads.   shadowman16 Member Oct 25, 2017 41,804 Agni Kai said: Only Battlefield 6 can save us now. Hold the line, my friends. Hold the line. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Gameplay wise, Hopefully Dice will take the time and make something truly special. However... I wouldnt expect much better from EA of all publishers. They are every bit as summy...  OP OP Xando Member Oct 28, 2017 38,006 My guess is this is only going to get worse as MS tries to make up the lost revenue from people playing via GP instead of buying   SP. Member Oct 27, 2017 8,578 I guess I thought it would be worse than the reaction seems to suggest… They're in-game micro transaction ads and for the most are for weapon skins which naturally don't seem that out of place in a weapon selection menu. It's not like they're advertising a Burger King Whopper in here. Obviously it'd be better if they weren't there at all but honestly if I played the game and saw these I wouldn't think it's anything out of the ordinary.  Ravelle Member Oct 31, 2017 20,432 Noisepurge said: Fortnite doesn't cost 80$ Click to expand... Click to shrink... It doesn't spam you with multiple windows to buy something either  Rosebud Two Pieces Member Apr 16, 2018 51,386 Wallace said: What a shit franchise. Click to expand... Click to shrink... .   Kyokanto Member Mar 4, 2025 493 For a second I thought this was going to be McDonald's ads or something lol. I wonder how far off that is… Still scummy as is.  Pop-O-Matic Avenger Oct 25, 2017 14,007 MarcosBrXD said: Crazy one of the biggest IPs doing this Click to expand... Click to shrink... Not really. CoD might move more money than most of the rest of the industry put together, but capitalismdemands that the line must always be going up, and there isn't really much CoD can do to grow the player base in any significant way in the short-to-medium term, so they're going to start trying out shit like this to get even more money out of the existing players so the line goes up and the shareholders can be happy.   Fabs Member Aug 22, 2019 2,780 Noisepurge said: Fortnite doesn't cost 80$ Click to expand... Click to shrink... Decarb said: Not only is it in a full priced mode, but its also in the weapon customization menu where you least expect it. Click to expand... Click to shrink... jroc74 said: Yeah I dont think it needs to be this aggressive. While trying to play the game tho? "Following the launch of Season 4, adverts for weapon bundles can be seen in the build and weapon menus. These are unavoidable for players as they tinker with their loadouts." Imagine getting hit with Shark Card ads while browsing the in game stores in GTA Online....please Rockstar dont do this. Also this. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Full priced games advertise their dlc in menus all the time. Is it because it's in a new place? Is this that different than having the paid operators in the menu for selection like they have in past CoD? Or when I play Street Fighter and I can't pick Akuma because he costs money? I get it if it was for McDonalds but this seems like rage bait.  Plexas Member Jan 24, 2025 289 Several trillion dollar company needs some money to survive, please understand.   Twister Member Feb 11, 2019 6,692 This franchise peaked with BO3. Everything after has been a disaster   Vertigo1 Member Jun 30, 2023 1,093 CoD will never be as good as it was in the 360 era, ever again.   Sordid Plebeian Member Oct 26, 2017 19,955 Yeah I remember seeing that AI store slop when I booted up S4, and they wonder why they're driving players away   Tommy Showbiz Member Jul 20, 2022 3,727 This is pretty corny, but I was honestly expecting ads for like Dr. Squatch and not just prodding you to buy in-game bundles.   Apathy Member Oct 25, 2017 13,538 So the biggest game, created by the biggest publisher, paced by the riches company in the world needs to slide ads into their paid games. Lovely   DarkJ Member Nov 11, 2017 1,918 Ai slop? Ads in the menus? In a fully priced game? Really just making sure I don't even look at the next game.  T88heon Member Aug 26, 2024 1,042 This is a profitability issue coupled with horrendous stewardship of the ip. If the retail side was profitable would they need to stealthily run ads in "COD" of all ip? 😬  DSync Member Oct 27, 2017 884 Black Ops 6 in 2025 after the most recent update for Season 4 > £70 for the base game > £100 for the "Vault Editon" > £50/60 for a year of PS Plus to play the game online > £10 for the Battlepass > £15 for the Battlepass plus tier skips > £25 for the "Blackcell" Battlepass > Free and PremiumBattlepasses for the Seth Rogan Operator Weed event > £16-25 Weapon and Operator bundles > AI art in the emblems, calling cards, posters in certain levels > Ads for bundles in creating a Loadout > Server instability issues > Whole game crashes to desktop/homescreen when editing your loadout during a match > UI Menu lagging > Cheaters, hackers run rampant > Store will 100% work no matter what  Pai Pai Master Member Oct 25, 2017 37,298 Atlanta GA AI crap and ads, yet people will still buy this shit in record numbers every year   #ign #activision #quietly #force #adverts
    WWW.RESETERA.COM
    IGN: Activision Quietly Force Adverts into Call of Duty Black Ops 6 and Warzone Loadouts and Players Absolutely Hate It
    Xando Member Oct 28, 2017 38,006 With the launch of Call of Duty Season 4, Activision quietly put adverts inside loadouts for Black Ops 6 and Warzone, sparking a backlash in the process. Activision already has a bad reputation for the aggressive monetization of the premium Black Ops 6 and its free-to-play battle royale Warzone, but this latest move may have tipped some players over the edge. Following the launch of Season 4, adverts for weapon bundles can be seen in the build and weapon menus. These are unavoidable for players as they tinker with their loadouts. Elsewhere, Activision has added bundle and Battle Pass advertisements to the Events tab, another controversial change that has caused complaints. Here's a snippet of the response, sourced from across Call of Duty subreddits, Discords, and social media: I wouldn't even be mad if this was just in Warzone, a free game, but putting it in a pay-to-play premium title, with how expensive they're getting? F**k off. This game is still 80€ I get that they make most of their money from the store, but I feel like the bare minimum for a premium product would be to not have ads clogging the menus right? At this point it really feels like opening up a mobile game with how much more you see an option to buy anything in this game. Anyone who wanted this bundle would've checked the store and bought it. Putting it here isn't gonna make more people buy it, its justannoying. Just wait until they add pop up ads for bundles while you are playing the game. Click to expand... Click to shrink... More including some examples here: Activision Quietly Force Adverts into Call of Duty Black Ops 6 and Warzone Loadouts and Players Absolutely Hate It: 'At This Point It Really Feels Like Opening Up a Mobile Game' - IGN With the launch of Call of Duty Season 4, Activision quietly put adverts inside loadouts for Black Ops 6 and Warzone, sparking a backlash in the process. www.ign.com   Gaspode Member Jan 17, 2025 152 gross   MarcosBrXD Member Aug 28, 2024 1,779 Crazy one of the biggest IPs doing this   Wallace Member Oct 25, 2017 28,182 Midwest What a shit franchise.   Shirkelton Member Aug 20, 2020 6,976 Fuck that.   MinerArcaniner Uncle Works at Nintendo Member Oct 29, 2017 7,473 The revenue line has to keep going up. There's no such thing as "enough" with corporations.   Kinthey Avenger Oct 27, 2017 25,551 Poor Cod really needs the money to keep the lights on   skullmuffins Member Oct 25, 2017 7,615 oh, ads for in-game microtransactions. guess i'm not surprised. that's where all the money is these days.   Remark Member Oct 27, 2017 4,184 Yeah the ads are so bad this season. When you boot up the game in CoD HQ, theres a big ass button for Blackcell and BO6 and WZ are all the way on the right side of the menu. It's so annoying. Huge disrespect to the people who actually bought the game. I wish CoD HQ would go away, it doesn't even actually help with anything and actually hampers the UX experience in a lot of ways especially on PC.  Last edited: Today at 10:14 AM LiquidDom Avenger Oct 27, 2017 2,730 Wait it's just ads for the in-game purchases? Not outside ads that have nothing to do with the game? I don't have that much of an issue with it, still shit though.  Richietto One Winged Slayer Member Oct 25, 2017 26,147 North Carolina Lmao what a joke   Loxley Prophet of Truth Member Oct 25, 2017 10,702 We're inching closer and closer to this scene from Ready Player One. "We estimate we can sell up to 80% of an individual's visual field before inducing seizures" View: https://youtu.be/KpPE85Jogjw?si=Di0mlmiF27KidwWs  Fabs Member Aug 22, 2019 2,780 This doesn't seem that different than like Fortnite advertising the shop updates in the main menu. It's fairly harmless.   Noisepurge Corrupted by Vengeance Member Oct 25, 2017 9,775 Fabs said: This doesn't seem that different than like Fortnite advertising the shop updates in the main menu. It's fairly harmless. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Fortnite doesn't cost 80$  OP OP Xando Member Oct 28, 2017 38,006 LiquidDom said: Wait it's just ads for the in-game purchases? Not outside ads that have nothing to do with the game? I don't have that much of an issue with it, still shit though. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Considering half of the in-game purchases are basically ads for some brands or characters that have nothing to do with COD it's basically the same thing   Remark Member Oct 27, 2017 4,184 Noisepurge said: Fortnite doesn't cost 80$ Click to expand... Click to shrink... To be fair, Warzone is F2P but that shit should be in there. Whether you buy the game or not, you have to go through CoD HQ which is so annoying.   Doskoi Panda One Winged Slayer Member Oct 27, 2017 17,314 CoD is so fucking trashy lmao. I will never understand how it remains so popular. It just gets worse year over yesr, even Warzone.   SunBroDave "This guy are sick" Member Oct 25, 2017 15,148 How else is COD supposed to make money   Decarb Member Oct 27, 2017 9,264 Fabs said: This doesn't seem that different than like Fortnite advertising the shop updates in the main menu. It's fairly harmless. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Not only is it in a full priced mode, but its also in the weapon customization menu where you least expect it.   Agni Kai Member Nov 2, 2017 10,037 Only Battlefield 6 can save us now. Hold the line, my friends. Hold the line.   jroc74 Member Oct 27, 2017 34,177 Yeah I dont think it needs to be this aggressive. LiquidDom said: Wait it's just ads for the in-game purchases? Not outside ads that have nothing to do with the game? I don't have that much of an issue with it, still shit though. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Fabs said: This doesn't seem that different than like Fortnite advertising the shop updates in the main menu. It's fairly harmless. Click to expand... Click to shrink... While trying to play the game tho? "Following the launch of Season 4, adverts for weapon bundles can be seen in the build and weapon menus. These are unavoidable for players as they tinker with their loadouts." Imagine getting hit with Shark Card ads while browsing the in game stores in GTA Online....please Rockstar dont do this. Noisepurge said: Fortnite doesn't cost 80$ Click to expand... Click to shrink... Also this.  BradleyLove Member Oct 29, 2017 1,661 Doesn't surprise me. I bought Forza Horizon for PS5 a few days ago and was shocked to encounter unskippable ads for DLC. The American obsession with forcing ads everywhere they can is horrible. This reply was brought to you by NEW Mountain Dew—new look, same bold refreshing flavour.  TransEuropaExpress Member Dec 6, 2017 11,420 US They should go all in and start doing random 5-minute commercial breaks in the middle of rounds.   Pyro God help us the mods are making weekend threads Member Jul 30, 2018 18,922 United States Really fucking gross.   Vourlis Member Aug 14, 2022 5,911 United States I...where are the ads? edit: Oh like advertising the bundles or whatever. Okay.  jroc74 Member Oct 27, 2017 34,177 BradleyLove said: Doesn't surprise me. I bought Forza Horizon for PS5 a few days ago and was shocked to encounter unskippable ads for DLC. The American obsession with forcing ads everywhere they can is horrible. This reply was brought to you by NEW Mountain Dew—new look, same bold refreshing flavour. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I either forgot how it was or just didnt know, because I played it on XSX when it launched. But I was and am shocked at the mtx in FH5.  shadowman16 Member Oct 25, 2017 41,804 I feel like this has already become too normalised because I honestly assumed we were talking about unrelated product ads... Meanwhile the examples above... honestly I kinda expected. Granted the article also points it out perfectly that if it were just in Warzone (free) it'd be... less bad, but charging however much for COD THEN pushing those ads on you... you just know people will crack. Not the worst example of ads in games though, I still give that to SFVI's Turtles costumes, aside the cost, having that damn song playing constantly in the battle hub for month(s) on end drove me nuts at the time.  Papaya The Fallen Oct 25, 2017 2,735 California The financial model for CoD is awful and lacks any sort of creativity. They just copied fortnite even though it doesn't work for a military shooter. They rarely release any good content because it either doesn't match the game's tone, or it sucks. It just doesn't lend itself well to skins, and other visual customization options. Or maybe they just don't know how to make good. Either way, I've never seen a more boring battlepass in my life. CoD can be a super fun action game, but it's never felt more hollow and lifeless. The best counter-example to "games are art" I've ever seen.  BestBrand Member Mar 5, 2025 457 Call of duty is the worst man. I may not even buy another COD again.   MerluzaSamus Member Dec 3, 2018 1,471 Argentina Agni Kai said: Only Battlefield 6 can save us now. Hold the line, my friends. Hold the line. Click to expand... Click to shrink... The game published by EA to gather obscene money on the fps market? That one Battlefield? Jokes aside, 'fraid this is going to be the norm long term, Fortnite normalized it and publishers with less restraint are going wild, same with AI. At least on the AAA market.  Lumination Member Oct 26, 2017 16,064 Who could have expected them giving the game away would have affected the revenue stream and business model of the game itself.   Geeko Member Oct 27, 2017 1,413 San Jose, CA Lame as hell. The problem is that the masses won't care about it and will still spend crap tons of money on this game thus continuing this constant bombardment of ads.   shadowman16 Member Oct 25, 2017 41,804 Agni Kai said: Only Battlefield 6 can save us now. Hold the line, my friends. Hold the line. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Gameplay wise, Hopefully Dice will take the time and make something truly special. However... I wouldnt expect much better from EA of all publishers. They are every bit as summy...  OP OP Xando Member Oct 28, 2017 38,006 My guess is this is only going to get worse as MS tries to make up the lost revenue from people playing via GP instead of buying   SP. Member Oct 27, 2017 8,578 I guess I thought it would be worse than the reaction seems to suggest… They're in-game micro transaction ads and for the most are for weapon skins which naturally don't seem that out of place in a weapon selection menu. It's not like they're advertising a Burger King Whopper in here. Obviously it'd be better if they weren't there at all but honestly if I played the game and saw these I wouldn't think it's anything out of the ordinary.  Ravelle Member Oct 31, 2017 20,432 Noisepurge said: Fortnite doesn't cost 80$ Click to expand... Click to shrink... It doesn't spam you with multiple windows to buy something either  Rosebud Two Pieces Member Apr 16, 2018 51,386 Wallace said: What a shit franchise. Click to expand... Click to shrink... .   Kyokanto Member Mar 4, 2025 493 For a second I thought this was going to be McDonald's ads or something lol. I wonder how far off that is… Still scummy as is.  Pop-O-Matic Avenger Oct 25, 2017 14,007 MarcosBrXD said: Crazy one of the biggest IPs doing this Click to expand... Click to shrink... Not really. CoD might move more money than most of the rest of the industry put together, but capitalism (especially at publicly traded mega corps like MS and ActiBlizz before them) demands that the line must always be going up, and there isn't really much CoD can do to grow the player base in any significant way in the short-to-medium term, so they're going to start trying out shit like this to get even more money out of the existing players so the line goes up and the shareholders can be happy.   Fabs Member Aug 22, 2019 2,780 Noisepurge said: Fortnite doesn't cost 80$ Click to expand... Click to shrink... Decarb said: Not only is it in a full priced mode, but its also in the weapon customization menu where you least expect it. Click to expand... Click to shrink... jroc74 said: Yeah I dont think it needs to be this aggressive. While trying to play the game tho? "Following the launch of Season 4, adverts for weapon bundles can be seen in the build and weapon menus. These are unavoidable for players as they tinker with their loadouts." Imagine getting hit with Shark Card ads while browsing the in game stores in GTA Online....please Rockstar dont do this. Also this. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Full priced games advertise their dlc in menus all the time. Is it because it's in a new place? Is this that different than having the paid operators in the menu for selection like they have in past CoD? Or when I play Street Fighter and I can't pick Akuma because he costs money? I get it if it was for McDonalds but this seems like rage bait.  Plexas Member Jan 24, 2025 289 Several trillion dollar company needs some money to survive, please understand.   Twister Member Feb 11, 2019 6,692 This franchise peaked with BO3. Everything after has been a disaster   Vertigo1 Member Jun 30, 2023 1,093 CoD will never be as good as it was in the 360 era, ever again.   Sordid Plebeian Member Oct 26, 2017 19,955 Yeah I remember seeing that AI store slop when I booted up S4, and they wonder why they're driving players away   Tommy Showbiz Member Jul 20, 2022 3,727 This is pretty corny, but I was honestly expecting ads for like Dr. Squatch and not just prodding you to buy in-game bundles.   Apathy Member Oct 25, 2017 13,538 So the biggest game, created by the biggest publisher, paced by the riches company in the world needs to slide ads into their paid games. Lovely   DarkJ Member Nov 11, 2017 1,918 Ai slop? Ads in the menus? In a fully priced game? Really just making sure I don't even look at the next game.  T88heon Member Aug 26, 2024 1,042 This is a profitability issue coupled with horrendous stewardship of the ip. If the retail side was profitable would they need to stealthily run ads in "COD" of all ip? 😬  DSync Member Oct 27, 2017 884 Black Ops 6 in 2025 after the most recent update for Season 4 > £70 for the base game > £100 for the "Vault Editon" > £50/60 for a year of PS Plus to play the game online > £10 for the Battlepass > £15 for the Battlepass plus tier skips > £25 for the "Blackcell" Battlepass > Free and Premium (Costs money) Battlepasses for the Seth Rogan Operator Weed event > £16-25 Weapon and Operator bundles > AI art in the emblems, calling cards, posters in certain levels > Ads for bundles in creating a Loadout > Server instability issues > Whole game crashes to desktop/homescreen when editing your loadout during a match > UI Menu lagging > Cheaters, hackers run rampant > Store will 100% work no matter what (Prices for everything may not be exact)  Pai Pai Master Member Oct 25, 2017 37,298 Atlanta GA AI crap and ads, yet people will still buy this shit in record numbers every year  
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  • How I shorted $TRUMP coin (and got to have dinner with the President)

    Last month, Donald Trump pushed the boundaries of government and financial ethics by announcing a contest: whoever bought and held the highest amount of the $TRUMP meme coin for an entire month would win an invite to a private dinner with the President. That dinner took place on Thursday at the Trump National Golf Course in Virginia, with attendees reportedly dropping nearly million on $TRUMP in order to win the privilege. According to an analysis by The Guardian of the winners’ wallets, over half of them lost money participating in this contest. But that’s only if you’re analyzing the wallets visible on the contest site’s leaderboard. The real money was being made elsewhere.“Bet you 10 percent of dinner participants are doing this”I interviewed an enthusiastic crypto trader who figured out how to win the contest without losing any money: buy enough $TRUMP to get onto the leaderboard — and then in a separate wallet on a separate exchange, buy $TRUMP perpetual futures that would be profitable ifthe value of $TRUMP dropped. Yes, he did The Big Short, except with Donald Trump’s meme coin. “Bet you 10 percent of dinner participants are doing this,” he told me before the contest ended. “Everyone knows $TRUMP price will fall inevitably as more supply comes online in the future and gets dumped on retail.” When I spoke to him again after the dinner, he told me that “the majority of people I spoke with, particularly the crypto traders and folks who are very close to the crypto ecosystem, are like, ‘Yeah, I dumped this. I already sold the coin.’” “A lot of people put on the same hedge trade as I did, because they didn’t wanna take risk on the coin,” he added.I can’t reveal his name, his position on the leaderboard, how much he spent, or the dates of specific trades he made. I can say that he did this for shits and giggles. But as he told me, when there’s such a clear and obvious set of financial incentives behind the $TRUMP dinner contest, it’s worth making the gamble.Did it pay off? “Um, I basically was flat,” he said. “I originally wanted to make some money, but I think the shorting I did — it was okay?” He did, however, get a free dinner out of it. The following interview has been edited for clarity.Let’s just start from the beginning. What made you want to enter this? I think meme coins have a lot of staying power because humans just want things to gamble on. What was fascinating when the Trump token launched in January right before the inauguration, was that it effectively was like a black hole that sucked money away from all these other tokens in the ecosystem. That’s why the Trump token ran up to some preposterous number immediately after it was dropped. When I saw this competition launch, it was clear that there was going to be a tremendous amount of grift in this space, and the presidential family was only interested in self-enrichment and all that. 
It was clear that there was going to be a tremendous amount of grift in this spaceBut putting that aside, I’ve just been interested in the Trump token and I think I’ve just been structurally bearish, because the Trump token has a bunch of supply that’s currently controlled by, effectively, the Trump family and the associates. It’s only a matter of time before the supply unlocks. When that supply unlocks, in the crypto community, people call this dumping: they’ll just dump it onto retail and that’s how they get their exit liquidity. So that’s one way the Trump family can make money. The other way is obviously whenever there’s trades that happen, the trading fees also accrue to the family. I know that the Trump token is going to go down. If you put a gun into my head and ask, what will the price be two years from now? It’s going to be much lower than where it is today. When this contest launched, I was like, okay, this is clearly a way for the affiliates and the Trump family to find a way to drive up the price temporarily. And having been in this space for a while, it’s clear that these events only drive the price up for a period of time and then people lose interest. Unless you feed them something else, it’s going to drop. Everyone expects the token to dumpThey launched the contest right around when the first tranche of Trump tokens were going to unlock, which was supposed to be 90 days after the launch of the token back in January. And so this whole contest was kind of timed at an apt moment where it’s like, okay, supply’s going to unlock. Everyone expects the token to dump. But then, on Twitter, they agreed to delay the unlock for another 90 days. But once the unlock happens and they start dumping, that’s when the price is going to drop a lot. 
So this contest was interesting. I was like, okay, well, I feel like I can put on a trade here where I’m not taking on any real risk and I think it’ll be cool to meet random people at this dinner and see who else is interested. It seems like there are a lot of folks from out of the country who are flying in to attend the dinner, and a lot of crypto whales. There’s one that I follow, he’s mentioned in his Telegram that he’s one of the big holders. He’s talked these last few days about how he’s preparing for this dinner. So talk me through how you generated the funds to buy the Trump coin. Did you use your own personal funds?I use my personal funds. All the crypto trading I do is with my personal funds. Some of the trading I do is on Coinbase through a centralized exchange. And the rest of the trading I do is on chain through self-custody wallets. When this opportunity came up, the only way you can actually be in a position to be in the top 220 is if you own $TRUMP tokens in a self-custody wallet. Some of the exchanges, including Coinbase, allow you to buy the $TRUMP token, but that would not count towards this contest. What I did was I moved stablecoins like USDC to my Solana wallet, and then I used a decentralized exchange to buy the $TRUMP token. The way the contest works is you have to register your wallet before you are counted towards the ranking system. And unfortunately, I did that like a couple days late, so I had to size up a little bit more to ensure that I could catch up to the people who had registered a couple days prior. But that’s a nuance. So explain the process of shorting $TRUMP coin on a secondary market. Like how does one do that? I am a dumb person who only understands shorting markets through watching The Big Short. Basically when you short, you’re hoping that the price goes down, right? And the mechanism of shorting here is slightly different than shorting stocks, but we don’t need to go into the specifics here. The way to shortis, you can do it in two ways. One is through a centralized exchange that offers, effectively, shorting services. And what I mean here by shorting services is, there is a “perpetual future” that is offered at these exchanges. When I talk about exchanges that offer this, it’s mostly going to be like Binance or Bybits and some of the bigger exchanges outside of the US. Coinbase is very far behind when it comes to offering derivative products that goes above and beyond just buying the token. I couldn’t do it through Coinbase, and I can’t short through an exchange like Binance, because there’s a lot of restrictions around who can actually use Binance. I’m in the US and Binance has very strict VPN rules. I can’t just open a Binance account and short. The only real way for me was to short on a decentralized exchangeSo the only real way for me was to short on a decentralized exchange, which has actually become really popular in the last year or so. It’s like the same concept as shorting on Binance, but you can do it on chain. I use a service called Hyper Liquid, which is a very popular decentralized exchange. And on this exchange, they offer derivative products that basically track the movement of different tokens. And so they offer, effectively, $TRUMP perpetual futures, and you can effectively initiate a short position through that. I’m happy to go into the details if you want, but that’s like the high level. Yeah, yes, please please tell me these details. So that is basically how to set up the short position. Conceptually, there’s a few things to keep in mind. First thing is: because I’m shorting in a separate wallet that’s completely detached from $TRUMP, 
I have to put up additional capital in another wallet to do this. It’s not like I can just use my $TRUMP tokens as collateral and use the same pool of money to short. And the way shorting works and the way perpetual futures work in general is you put up a certain margin. So let’s keep it simple: say I put up k in margin and I choose to short the $TRUMP token. Now, if $TRUMP goes up in price, then I’m hurting, because I’m betting on the token falling. If the $TRUMP token doubles in price, well, then I will have lost a hundred thousand dollars in which case, my margin gets wiped out and thiscontract will have to be closed because I’ve lost all my money. If the token goes down in price, that’s when I profit — as long as I close out the position in the green. So you basically are juggling two wallets. One is the wallet in which you’re holding all this $TRUMP coin. 
The other one is like, how would you describe it? Is that the money that you’re generating in order to pay for participating in the contest? The most important wallet here is the Solana wallet with the $TRUMP tokens, because that’s what’s being used by the contest organizers to determine who makes the top 220. But as I mentioned earlier, I am structurally bearish on the $TRUMP token and I wouldn’t want to go for dinner and like, see my money go down when the $TRUMP token goes down in price. I decided I wanted to basically put on a hedge, where, using the other wallet and the short position, I’m basically agnostic to any sort of price movement. That’s the reason why I set up the other wallet. I could have taken on the price risk, but that’s pretty risky, because typically what happens with these events is that as we get close to the end of the contest date, people start dumping the $TRUMP tokens. The value of the $TRUMP token will have gone down — let’s say it went down to 90,000 — it would be offset by the short wallet, which would be like 110,000. And then they add up to 200,000, which is how much I hypothetically put in from the start. 
Did you make money off of this?Um, I basically was flat. I originally wanted to make some money, but I think the shorting I did — it was okay? I basically just broke even on this entire tradeLet me take a step back.
So initially I shorted the same amount as the token. But then as the time went on, as we got close to the contest end date, I decided to increase the size of the short position, because I thought that based on the thesis I had, people are going to start selling because there’s nothing to look forward to. And so I increased that size. But it just so happened that towards the end of the contest was also when the crypto markets started ripping after May 8th. So net-net, I think I basically just broke even on this entire trade.Define the crypto markets “ripping.”May 8th was basically the Thursday right before that weekend when the US representatives were going to meet the Chinese representatives in Switzerland. That day was also when the UK deal announcement was made. And so the market basically took that as a bullish sign, and then that got parlayed into the positive euphoria of the US-China negotiations. Everything started going up. Okay. So every market just started getting bullish. 
Yeah, all the tokens ran up a lot. If you look at the token price, $TRUMP coin on May 7th was roughly 11 bucks, and then on May 9th it was like 14 bucks. Over time that token has come down in price. But yeah, it ran up 40 percent in the span of like two days.What was the strategy going into the end game? 
Because it sounds like it was super volatile around the end and that’s why you needed to increase your short position. I thought that towards the end, I could opportunistically make some profits by shorting more than I owned, if that makes sense.What is the point of encouraging people to go diamond hands by offering this NFT? So I think this goes back to the incentives of Trump’s affiliates, right? They have a lot of supply that they own. Last I looked, they own eighty percent of the supply. But all of that, as with many otherprojects, gets locked up and only gets released over time, so that you don’t have all this supply pressure on day one. Because then no one wants to buy the token. The whole point of the NFT and this subsequent rewards program that they’ve talked about, but haven’t given the details for, is to incentivize people to hold the token longer. The longer people hold the token, then the price arguably would not fall as much. 
The only way to keep the price high is if you introduce all these little games to keep retail engagedThe eventual setup, I’m sure, whether that’s in three months or in a year or two, is that the affiliates will then have their supply unlock, and they will want to sell. They obviously want to sell at a higher price. And the only way to keep the price high is if you introduce all these little games to keep retail engaged and interested in holding tokens. How do you get the NFT now? Do you have to rebuy all the coin?Yeah, my understanding based on that tweet they sent is, they basically look at your wallet holdings on the day of the dinner and compare that to your wallet holdings on the last day of the contest. And so if those match or if you own more, then they’ll give you an NFT. I was kind of dumb. What I should have done was, right before the 1:30PM cut off, I should have sold like, 90 percent of my tokens. In this way, on the dinner day, I would only have to buy 10 percent of what I bought previously, and I think I would qualify for this NFT. 
Wow. Have people done that? Well, the NFT hasn’t been dropped yet.
I don’t know the specifics. There are definitely people who sold before the end of the deadline, and that’s clear from even looking at that leaderboard page, right? There’s one column with current holdings and a bunch were zeroed out, but they are still in the top 220 because it’s a time-weighted calculation.Why did they do time-weighted calculations rather than like, just a cumulative amount of money you held at the end? I think this goes back to solving not only how much do you hold, but how long do you hold it for, and rewarding people differently. So if you held over the entire stretch of the contest, you should be rewarded more than someone who held like for one day on the last day. I think the time-weighted calculation effectively is trying to normalize for that. They also gave me a call the same day, which I thought was spam for a secondHow have the organizers been in their interactions with you for the contest and for the dinner and everything?They emailed me the day of, as soon as the
contest ended, saying that I had made it into the top 220. And they also gave me a call the same day, which I thought was spam for a second. But when the voicemail thing came up, I’m like, oh, this is actually a real thing. So I picked up the phone and then they just confirmed that I got the email and that I would have to do a KYCin order to qualify for the dinner. Please give us your data, references, whatever. 
Yeah, nothing that sophisticated. They outsourced it to another party and I just provided my name, my nationality, where I live. No social security number or anything like that. Plus my birthday. and I think they just ran like an external check to make sure that I wasn’t a criminal or anything like that. I feel like it was pretty light vettingHow thoroughly do you think they’re been vetting you, how professional has the process been? I feel like it was pretty light vetting. I talked to someone about, let’s say, getting into the White House and it’s a lot more strict in terms of, you have to show your passport and all that. And here, you don’t really have to do that. You just have to show your ID at the door. At least that’s what they said. And as long as your ID matches the information you gave, you’re fine. So I don’t think the security is that strict, per se, but it’s good enough, I guess. Have you participated in any contests like this or heard of anything similar? No, I have not.That’s wild. This is rather innovative if one thinks about it in a “divorced from most governmental ethics” manner. Did you read about how it’s possible that Trump just doesn’t show up to this?I did see something that basically said, yeah, based on the terms and conditions, the president does not have to be there, I think. Honestly, I think a lot of people aren’t really there to see Trump. I could be totally wrong, but I get the sense from, let’s say, like looking at the crypto whales’ Telegram, thatmore interested in just meeting other crypto folks so thatcan network. If Justin Sun is there, that’s pretty good, right? Like being able to talk to him and maybe, you know, get his contact information and all that. RelatedThe many escapes of Justin SunI think for me and probably other people, we’re more interested in seeing if there’s any other interesting news that comes out of this dinner. I will have my wallet ready, and if some great news gets dropped at the dinner, that could potentially positively influence the $TRUMP token price or any other token price, I will buy it on the spot and try to profit. This is something that other attendees are thinking about doing too?I can’t say with certainty, but based on that one Telegram guy, it seemed like it was implied. Like, if they announced a rewards program for a Trump thing – say, the NFT will be used for this, and then the rewards will give you some really impressive thing in three months, that could probably move the price. Then I would take on a short-term trade literally at the dinner table. That’s why after the $TRUMP token dropped right before inauguration, I finally decided to download Truth SocialThat’s a first mover advantage right there.In crypto, half of it is just being a first mover advantage. That’s why after the $TRUMP token dropped right before inauguration, I finally decided to download Truth Social. I only follow Trump. He’s the only guy I follow and I have notifications on, which actually served me well. Was it April 9th when he sent out that tweet saying that tariffs are now delayed for 90 days? That was first out on Truth Social and I saw that immediately, and I’m like, oh, time to trade my equities, because I will be first to the news. So he’s dropped some nuggets for sure on his account. So the dinner itself is a good money making opportunity?Possibly. It’s hard to say, but in the event that it does, there is some information that gets dropped, that could be actionable.Is there anything you’re particularly proud of about the process of executing this short?I don’t know if there’s anything I’d really brag about or be like, super proud of.
I think this hedge trade, for someone who’s pretty involved in crypto, would be fairly obvious. Net-net, I think I broke even because I did basically go a bit big around my short towards the end of the contest. So that made up for some of the fees I had to pay and whatnot. I’m pretty happy.
I feel like I didn’t take on any risk and I’m able to go to this dinner. That’s probably a win in my books. One thing is, if I had real capital, I would have tried to make the top 25. That requires a lot of money, which I don’t have. I don’t really care about seeing Trump at all. I care more about seeing who else is there, of the top 25I think it’s like a couple million.I think you’d have to have 200,000 tokens, so yeah, roughly like two, three million USD. 
And if you want to not take on the risk of the token price moving, you’d want to take a short position of roughly the same size. It would be like a four or five million dollar capital outlay to make it happen. But the benefit of being in the top 25 is you get to meet Trump, and also get to be in a more intimate networking session, which I would actually enjoy being at. I don’t really care about seeing Trump at all. I care more about seeing who else is there, of the top 25. What was the minimum size of the wallet that made 220, do you know? It’s hard to say because what someone could have done is they could have bought a lot initially, and then halfway through they sold most of them, because they were pretty confident that they would make the top 220, because it’s time weighted.I guess only fifty thousand.Honestly, that’s not a lot. It’s not. 
Realistically that number is probably higher. The thing is, this is not like a disbursement where you’re never seeing that money again. After the dinner, you could choose to sell your token. Now, maybe the price will have moved from when you first bought it to when you sold it, but the actual loss, or potentially profit, is not obvious.Oh, that makes this some really interesting campaign finance implications. I guess the one thing I’ll say is, the Trump team probably won’t sell for a couple months at very least. And so whatever happens between now and then theoretically doesn’t really impact the team, right? Because if they had not launched this dinner contest and they did nothing, and then right before the unlock happens, they launch another campaign or they do something weird like this, then that will immediately pump up the price because crypto is so reflexive. And they can then sell into the strength of the price movement, theoretically. But here, I think what they want to do is actually show that this $TRUMP token has utility, and that it’s actually useful rather than just being a meme coin. And this is one way of making the $TRUMP token worth holding, because it’s not just a meme. If you buy it, you can go to dinner, you can earn points. You can get an NFT. It’s basically the playbook that a lot of folks will potentially run if they’re launching a meme coin with utility value. Oh, utility value is definitely a good way of saying it. Yeah, utility value in the sense that yeah, you can go to dinner, you can get an NFT, you can earn points that will get you something in the future. But yeah, this is a little bit different from memes like Pepe or Doge or Shiba Inu. Those have zero utility values. They’re literally just a meme. You can’t go to a dinner if you own a lot of it. It’s just a meme. The morning after the dinner:How are you? How was your crazy night out?It was good. And yeah, there was a sponsor who wanted to do an afterparty afterwards. They basically rented out the rooftop bar on top of the Marriott. I stayed out until 1 AM. But it was good. The actual event was quite interesting. The protests outside the dinner obviously were just kind of off-putting. I was like, damn, should I really walk into this thing?Activists staged an “America Is Not For Sale” protest while President Trump hosted the winners of his meme coin contest at the Trump National golf club. Getty ImagesI’ve actually never been to the Trump National. How is it as a venue? It’s on the Potomac River. When you are in the club you can see the really nice golf course and then the river is right there. The room was long and the podium was right up in the front and the tables were almost set up in a way where there were many rows of tables, but not that many columns, if it makes sense.I didn’t recognize this until maybe like, after an hour in, but people started taking seats because they wanted to be closer to the podium. And eventually, I’m like, damn, I gotta get a seat. But all that didn’t end up mattering because when Trump walked in, basically like a celebrity, everyone rushed up to the front and pulled out their phones and started recording. Who did you meet that was interesting or fun?Justin Sun was there, it was just that everyone wanted to talk to him. I guess the only thing I could do was just say hi to him. There were a bunch of international folks. A few folks were from Poland, who came all the way here from Portugal, where they now live. There was a lot of Asian people there. I met some folks from South Korea. Some guys from France, Italy. There was this hedge fund manager from Croatia who came just to check this out. Some guy from Sweden.There were also some market-making firms, like really big in crypto, like Wintermute. And then another guy who works at Kronos Research. The organizers also brought some folks, like the founder of the Moonshot app. I guess Moonshot had partnered with folks with the $TRUMP launch back in January. He said he didn’t buy any tokens because none of the employees are allowed to trade, and so he was just invited by the organizers.There were a bunch of folks in the crypto ecosystem, now that I think about it, who actually had effectively insider knowledge that Trump was gonna launch a coin. They didn’t know exactly what that was gonna be, but they knew it was coming and it was gonna be a real coin.
For the first hour or two, people were wondering if Trump’s account got hacked. I just thought that was interesting, that it was effectively prewired to a lot of folks. Ah, so like: if those people knew, then they had that first mover advantage for that full hour – that it was a legitimate coin?Yeah, the public didn’t know whether it was an intentional drop or if some hackers hacked the Twitter account. I ended up meeting one of the top winners, and he was telling me how he hedged his tradeDid you find any really diehard MAGA people there?I’m sure that there were a couple of folks.
I just never got a chance to speak with someone who’s like, super pro-Trump. I’d say the majority of people I spoke with, particularly the crypto traders and folks who are very close to the crypto ecosystem are like, yeah, I dumped this. I already sold the coin. A lot of people put on the same hedge trade as I did, because they didn’t wanna take risk on the coin. I ended up meeting one of the top winners, and he was telling me how he hedged his trade. So effectively, he was taking on no price risk. Now the only thing is when you short these tokens, there’s a funding cost, but because he had such a big position the funding was actually pretty significant. 
So he said he paid, I don’t know, like in funding costs, but to him it was still worth it, especially since he got a watch that’s supposedly worth if you’re in the top four. Wait, they gave out watches?
Yeah. When Justin went up and gave the speech, after that, he got the watch.Honestly to meet the president and get a watch that’s twice that amount, is a pretty good deal. Yeah. I had no idea yet that there’s a TrumpWatches.com. I think the host referenced this — like, if you want a watch, just go on the website. I was like, this is real? And then I actually went on the website and it turned out it is. Swiss-made chrono movement – oh my God, there are so many watches. Do you see that one on the very front page? They gave out two of those as prizes for raffle winners. Oh, that’s only man.Yeah, I know, right?Lame. I guess you can’t yet buy the watch on this website. They were specially designed and they only were able to have two ready for the event, and the other two will get shipped to the winners. 
A commemorative hat.Did people post photos or selfies, or was there a sense of discretion?There were obviously crypto traders who didn’t wanna give their real names, and some folks who were trying to be camera shy and avoid the limelight, but I feel like for the most part, people were taking selfies and they were just having a good time. And there were photographers walking around taking photos of everyone. And then at the end, this was after Trump and after all the gifts were given out, the host was like, everyone put on your hat that you got — it’s in my bag,
it’s a Trump meme dinner hat — let’s all put it on and take a photo and then hashtag “trumpmemedinner” or whatever.Oh, okay, so they actually encouraged you to put it on the Internet. 
I guess the host took the photo and it was like a selfie or something. The other funny moment was during the Trump speech. For the most part, it was just him talking about his campaign, and about how he beat Biden, and blah, blah, blah, how we were in a terrible place with crypto before he got elected and now we’re in a great place. That sounds exactly like a thing Trump would say. That was pretty accurate. At one point, the microphone made a cracking sound and then he was like, whoops, my ear. and he made a joke referencing the assassination attempt. A poster promoting the afterparty.How did you figure out about the afterparty? Was it the official afterparty? 
A lot of folks were saying there was gonna be some afterparty exclusive to VIPs, like the top 25 holders. There were a few folks who were trying to get into this party, but then it turns out it was actually not that exclusive. This MemeCore group, the number two holder, they rented out space at the rooftop of this Marriott and effectively invited everyone. So when you were leaving the venue, they had a couple buses that would come every 10 minutes and they were like, yeah, feel free to take this bus and we’ll take you to the after-party. A lot of people ended up going. 
How was the afterparty? Was it well funded? They had an open bar, free drinks. It was fine, nothing like that noteworthy.
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    How I shorted $TRUMP coin (and got to have dinner with the President)
    Last month, Donald Trump pushed the boundaries of government and financial ethics by announcing a contest: whoever bought and held the highest amount of the $TRUMP meme coin for an entire month would win an invite to a private dinner with the President. That dinner took place on Thursday at the Trump National Golf Course in Virginia, with attendees reportedly dropping nearly million on $TRUMP in order to win the privilege. According to an analysis by The Guardian of the winners’ wallets, over half of them lost money participating in this contest. But that’s only if you’re analyzing the wallets visible on the contest site’s leaderboard. The real money was being made elsewhere.“Bet you 10 percent of dinner participants are doing this”I interviewed an enthusiastic crypto trader who figured out how to win the contest without losing any money: buy enough $TRUMP to get onto the leaderboard — and then in a separate wallet on a separate exchange, buy $TRUMP perpetual futures that would be profitable ifthe value of $TRUMP dropped. Yes, he did The Big Short, except with Donald Trump’s meme coin. “Bet you 10 percent of dinner participants are doing this,” he told me before the contest ended. “Everyone knows $TRUMP price will fall inevitably as more supply comes online in the future and gets dumped on retail.” When I spoke to him again after the dinner, he told me that “the majority of people I spoke with, particularly the crypto traders and folks who are very close to the crypto ecosystem, are like, ‘Yeah, I dumped this. I already sold the coin.’” “A lot of people put on the same hedge trade as I did, because they didn’t wanna take risk on the coin,” he added.I can’t reveal his name, his position on the leaderboard, how much he spent, or the dates of specific trades he made. I can say that he did this for shits and giggles. But as he told me, when there’s such a clear and obvious set of financial incentives behind the $TRUMP dinner contest, it’s worth making the gamble.Did it pay off? “Um, I basically was flat,” he said. “I originally wanted to make some money, but I think the shorting I did — it was okay?” He did, however, get a free dinner out of it. The following interview has been edited for clarity.Let’s just start from the beginning. What made you want to enter this? I think meme coins have a lot of staying power because humans just want things to gamble on. What was fascinating when the Trump token launched in January right before the inauguration, was that it effectively was like a black hole that sucked money away from all these other tokens in the ecosystem. That’s why the Trump token ran up to some preposterous number immediately after it was dropped. When I saw this competition launch, it was clear that there was going to be a tremendous amount of grift in this space, and the presidential family was only interested in self-enrichment and all that. 
It was clear that there was going to be a tremendous amount of grift in this spaceBut putting that aside, I’ve just been interested in the Trump token and I think I’ve just been structurally bearish, because the Trump token has a bunch of supply that’s currently controlled by, effectively, the Trump family and the associates. It’s only a matter of time before the supply unlocks. When that supply unlocks, in the crypto community, people call this dumping: they’ll just dump it onto retail and that’s how they get their exit liquidity. So that’s one way the Trump family can make money. The other way is obviously whenever there’s trades that happen, the trading fees also accrue to the family. I know that the Trump token is going to go down. If you put a gun into my head and ask, what will the price be two years from now? It’s going to be much lower than where it is today. When this contest launched, I was like, okay, this is clearly a way for the affiliates and the Trump family to find a way to drive up the price temporarily. And having been in this space for a while, it’s clear that these events only drive the price up for a period of time and then people lose interest. Unless you feed them something else, it’s going to drop. Everyone expects the token to dumpThey launched the contest right around when the first tranche of Trump tokens were going to unlock, which was supposed to be 90 days after the launch of the token back in January. And so this whole contest was kind of timed at an apt moment where it’s like, okay, supply’s going to unlock. Everyone expects the token to dump. But then, on Twitter, they agreed to delay the unlock for another 90 days. But once the unlock happens and they start dumping, that’s when the price is going to drop a lot. 
So this contest was interesting. I was like, okay, well, I feel like I can put on a trade here where I’m not taking on any real risk and I think it’ll be cool to meet random people at this dinner and see who else is interested. It seems like there are a lot of folks from out of the country who are flying in to attend the dinner, and a lot of crypto whales. There’s one that I follow, he’s mentioned in his Telegram that he’s one of the big holders. He’s talked these last few days about how he’s preparing for this dinner. So talk me through how you generated the funds to buy the Trump coin. Did you use your own personal funds?I use my personal funds. All the crypto trading I do is with my personal funds. Some of the trading I do is on Coinbase through a centralized exchange. And the rest of the trading I do is on chain through self-custody wallets. When this opportunity came up, the only way you can actually be in a position to be in the top 220 is if you own $TRUMP tokens in a self-custody wallet. Some of the exchanges, including Coinbase, allow you to buy the $TRUMP token, but that would not count towards this contest. What I did was I moved stablecoins like USDC to my Solana wallet, and then I used a decentralized exchange to buy the $TRUMP token. The way the contest works is you have to register your wallet before you are counted towards the ranking system. And unfortunately, I did that like a couple days late, so I had to size up a little bit more to ensure that I could catch up to the people who had registered a couple days prior. But that’s a nuance. So explain the process of shorting $TRUMP coin on a secondary market. Like how does one do that? I am a dumb person who only understands shorting markets through watching The Big Short. Basically when you short, you’re hoping that the price goes down, right? And the mechanism of shorting here is slightly different than shorting stocks, but we don’t need to go into the specifics here. The way to shortis, you can do it in two ways. One is through a centralized exchange that offers, effectively, shorting services. And what I mean here by shorting services is, there is a “perpetual future” that is offered at these exchanges. When I talk about exchanges that offer this, it’s mostly going to be like Binance or Bybits and some of the bigger exchanges outside of the US. Coinbase is very far behind when it comes to offering derivative products that goes above and beyond just buying the token. I couldn’t do it through Coinbase, and I can’t short through an exchange like Binance, because there’s a lot of restrictions around who can actually use Binance. I’m in the US and Binance has very strict VPN rules. I can’t just open a Binance account and short. The only real way for me was to short on a decentralized exchangeSo the only real way for me was to short on a decentralized exchange, which has actually become really popular in the last year or so. It’s like the same concept as shorting on Binance, but you can do it on chain. I use a service called Hyper Liquid, which is a very popular decentralized exchange. And on this exchange, they offer derivative products that basically track the movement of different tokens. And so they offer, effectively, $TRUMP perpetual futures, and you can effectively initiate a short position through that. I’m happy to go into the details if you want, but that’s like the high level. Yeah, yes, please please tell me these details. So that is basically how to set up the short position. Conceptually, there’s a few things to keep in mind. First thing is: because I’m shorting in a separate wallet that’s completely detached from $TRUMP, 
I have to put up additional capital in another wallet to do this. It’s not like I can just use my $TRUMP tokens as collateral and use the same pool of money to short. And the way shorting works and the way perpetual futures work in general is you put up a certain margin. So let’s keep it simple: say I put up k in margin and I choose to short the $TRUMP token. Now, if $TRUMP goes up in price, then I’m hurting, because I’m betting on the token falling. If the $TRUMP token doubles in price, well, then I will have lost a hundred thousand dollars in which case, my margin gets wiped out and thiscontract will have to be closed because I’ve lost all my money. If the token goes down in price, that’s when I profit — as long as I close out the position in the green. So you basically are juggling two wallets. One is the wallet in which you’re holding all this $TRUMP coin. 
The other one is like, how would you describe it? Is that the money that you’re generating in order to pay for participating in the contest? The most important wallet here is the Solana wallet with the $TRUMP tokens, because that’s what’s being used by the contest organizers to determine who makes the top 220. But as I mentioned earlier, I am structurally bearish on the $TRUMP token and I wouldn’t want to go for dinner and like, see my money go down when the $TRUMP token goes down in price. I decided I wanted to basically put on a hedge, where, using the other wallet and the short position, I’m basically agnostic to any sort of price movement. That’s the reason why I set up the other wallet. I could have taken on the price risk, but that’s pretty risky, because typically what happens with these events is that as we get close to the end of the contest date, people start dumping the $TRUMP tokens. The value of the $TRUMP token will have gone down — let’s say it went down to 90,000 — it would be offset by the short wallet, which would be like 110,000. And then they add up to 200,000, which is how much I hypothetically put in from the start. 
Did you make money off of this?Um, I basically was flat. I originally wanted to make some money, but I think the shorting I did — it was okay? I basically just broke even on this entire tradeLet me take a step back.
So initially I shorted the same amount as the token. But then as the time went on, as we got close to the contest end date, I decided to increase the size of the short position, because I thought that based on the thesis I had, people are going to start selling because there’s nothing to look forward to. And so I increased that size. But it just so happened that towards the end of the contest was also when the crypto markets started ripping after May 8th. So net-net, I think I basically just broke even on this entire trade.Define the crypto markets “ripping.”May 8th was basically the Thursday right before that weekend when the US representatives were going to meet the Chinese representatives in Switzerland. That day was also when the UK deal announcement was made. And so the market basically took that as a bullish sign, and then that got parlayed into the positive euphoria of the US-China negotiations. Everything started going up. Okay. So every market just started getting bullish. 
Yeah, all the tokens ran up a lot. If you look at the token price, $TRUMP coin on May 7th was roughly 11 bucks, and then on May 9th it was like 14 bucks. Over time that token has come down in price. But yeah, it ran up 40 percent in the span of like two days.What was the strategy going into the end game? 
Because it sounds like it was super volatile around the end and that’s why you needed to increase your short position. I thought that towards the end, I could opportunistically make some profits by shorting more than I owned, if that makes sense.What is the point of encouraging people to go diamond hands by offering this NFT? So I think this goes back to the incentives of Trump’s affiliates, right? They have a lot of supply that they own. Last I looked, they own eighty percent of the supply. But all of that, as with many otherprojects, gets locked up and only gets released over time, so that you don’t have all this supply pressure on day one. Because then no one wants to buy the token. The whole point of the NFT and this subsequent rewards program that they’ve talked about, but haven’t given the details for, is to incentivize people to hold the token longer. The longer people hold the token, then the price arguably would not fall as much. 
The only way to keep the price high is if you introduce all these little games to keep retail engagedThe eventual setup, I’m sure, whether that’s in three months or in a year or two, is that the affiliates will then have their supply unlock, and they will want to sell. They obviously want to sell at a higher price. And the only way to keep the price high is if you introduce all these little games to keep retail engaged and interested in holding tokens. How do you get the NFT now? Do you have to rebuy all the coin?Yeah, my understanding based on that tweet they sent is, they basically look at your wallet holdings on the day of the dinner and compare that to your wallet holdings on the last day of the contest. And so if those match or if you own more, then they’ll give you an NFT. I was kind of dumb. What I should have done was, right before the 1:30PM cut off, I should have sold like, 90 percent of my tokens. In this way, on the dinner day, I would only have to buy 10 percent of what I bought previously, and I think I would qualify for this NFT. 
Wow. Have people done that? Well, the NFT hasn’t been dropped yet.
I don’t know the specifics. There are definitely people who sold before the end of the deadline, and that’s clear from even looking at that leaderboard page, right? There’s one column with current holdings and a bunch were zeroed out, but they are still in the top 220 because it’s a time-weighted calculation.Why did they do time-weighted calculations rather than like, just a cumulative amount of money you held at the end? I think this goes back to solving not only how much do you hold, but how long do you hold it for, and rewarding people differently. So if you held over the entire stretch of the contest, you should be rewarded more than someone who held like for one day on the last day. I think the time-weighted calculation effectively is trying to normalize for that. They also gave me a call the same day, which I thought was spam for a secondHow have the organizers been in their interactions with you for the contest and for the dinner and everything?They emailed me the day of, as soon as the
contest ended, saying that I had made it into the top 220. And they also gave me a call the same day, which I thought was spam for a second. But when the voicemail thing came up, I’m like, oh, this is actually a real thing. So I picked up the phone and then they just confirmed that I got the email and that I would have to do a KYCin order to qualify for the dinner. Please give us your data, references, whatever. 
Yeah, nothing that sophisticated. They outsourced it to another party and I just provided my name, my nationality, where I live. No social security number or anything like that. Plus my birthday. and I think they just ran like an external check to make sure that I wasn’t a criminal or anything like that. I feel like it was pretty light vettingHow thoroughly do you think they’re been vetting you, how professional has the process been? I feel like it was pretty light vetting. I talked to someone about, let’s say, getting into the White House and it’s a lot more strict in terms of, you have to show your passport and all that. And here, you don’t really have to do that. You just have to show your ID at the door. At least that’s what they said. And as long as your ID matches the information you gave, you’re fine. So I don’t think the security is that strict, per se, but it’s good enough, I guess. Have you participated in any contests like this or heard of anything similar? No, I have not.That’s wild. This is rather innovative if one thinks about it in a “divorced from most governmental ethics” manner. Did you read about how it’s possible that Trump just doesn’t show up to this?I did see something that basically said, yeah, based on the terms and conditions, the president does not have to be there, I think. Honestly, I think a lot of people aren’t really there to see Trump. I could be totally wrong, but I get the sense from, let’s say, like looking at the crypto whales’ Telegram, thatmore interested in just meeting other crypto folks so thatcan network. If Justin Sun is there, that’s pretty good, right? Like being able to talk to him and maybe, you know, get his contact information and all that. RelatedThe many escapes of Justin SunI think for me and probably other people, we’re more interested in seeing if there’s any other interesting news that comes out of this dinner. I will have my wallet ready, and if some great news gets dropped at the dinner, that could potentially positively influence the $TRUMP token price or any other token price, I will buy it on the spot and try to profit. This is something that other attendees are thinking about doing too?I can’t say with certainty, but based on that one Telegram guy, it seemed like it was implied. Like, if they announced a rewards program for a Trump thing – say, the NFT will be used for this, and then the rewards will give you some really impressive thing in three months, that could probably move the price. Then I would take on a short-term trade literally at the dinner table. That’s why after the $TRUMP token dropped right before inauguration, I finally decided to download Truth SocialThat’s a first mover advantage right there.In crypto, half of it is just being a first mover advantage. That’s why after the $TRUMP token dropped right before inauguration, I finally decided to download Truth Social. I only follow Trump. He’s the only guy I follow and I have notifications on, which actually served me well. Was it April 9th when he sent out that tweet saying that tariffs are now delayed for 90 days? That was first out on Truth Social and I saw that immediately, and I’m like, oh, time to trade my equities, because I will be first to the news. So he’s dropped some nuggets for sure on his account. So the dinner itself is a good money making opportunity?Possibly. It’s hard to say, but in the event that it does, there is some information that gets dropped, that could be actionable.Is there anything you’re particularly proud of about the process of executing this short?I don’t know if there’s anything I’d really brag about or be like, super proud of.
I think this hedge trade, for someone who’s pretty involved in crypto, would be fairly obvious. Net-net, I think I broke even because I did basically go a bit big around my short towards the end of the contest. So that made up for some of the fees I had to pay and whatnot. I’m pretty happy.
I feel like I didn’t take on any risk and I’m able to go to this dinner. That’s probably a win in my books. One thing is, if I had real capital, I would have tried to make the top 25. That requires a lot of money, which I don’t have. I don’t really care about seeing Trump at all. I care more about seeing who else is there, of the top 25I think it’s like a couple million.I think you’d have to have 200,000 tokens, so yeah, roughly like two, three million USD. 
And if you want to not take on the risk of the token price moving, you’d want to take a short position of roughly the same size. It would be like a four or five million dollar capital outlay to make it happen. But the benefit of being in the top 25 is you get to meet Trump, and also get to be in a more intimate networking session, which I would actually enjoy being at. I don’t really care about seeing Trump at all. I care more about seeing who else is there, of the top 25. What was the minimum size of the wallet that made 220, do you know? It’s hard to say because what someone could have done is they could have bought a lot initially, and then halfway through they sold most of them, because they were pretty confident that they would make the top 220, because it’s time weighted.I guess only fifty thousand.Honestly, that’s not a lot. It’s not. 
Realistically that number is probably higher. The thing is, this is not like a disbursement where you’re never seeing that money again. After the dinner, you could choose to sell your token. Now, maybe the price will have moved from when you first bought it to when you sold it, but the actual loss, or potentially profit, is not obvious.Oh, that makes this some really interesting campaign finance implications. I guess the one thing I’ll say is, the Trump team probably won’t sell for a couple months at very least. And so whatever happens between now and then theoretically doesn’t really impact the team, right? Because if they had not launched this dinner contest and they did nothing, and then right before the unlock happens, they launch another campaign or they do something weird like this, then that will immediately pump up the price because crypto is so reflexive. And they can then sell into the strength of the price movement, theoretically. But here, I think what they want to do is actually show that this $TRUMP token has utility, and that it’s actually useful rather than just being a meme coin. And this is one way of making the $TRUMP token worth holding, because it’s not just a meme. If you buy it, you can go to dinner, you can earn points. You can get an NFT. It’s basically the playbook that a lot of folks will potentially run if they’re launching a meme coin with utility value. Oh, utility value is definitely a good way of saying it. Yeah, utility value in the sense that yeah, you can go to dinner, you can get an NFT, you can earn points that will get you something in the future. But yeah, this is a little bit different from memes like Pepe or Doge or Shiba Inu. Those have zero utility values. They’re literally just a meme. You can’t go to a dinner if you own a lot of it. It’s just a meme. The morning after the dinner:How are you? How was your crazy night out?It was good. And yeah, there was a sponsor who wanted to do an afterparty afterwards. They basically rented out the rooftop bar on top of the Marriott. I stayed out until 1 AM. But it was good. The actual event was quite interesting. The protests outside the dinner obviously were just kind of off-putting. I was like, damn, should I really walk into this thing?Activists staged an “America Is Not For Sale” protest while President Trump hosted the winners of his meme coin contest at the Trump National golf club. Getty ImagesI’ve actually never been to the Trump National. How is it as a venue? It’s on the Potomac River. When you are in the club you can see the really nice golf course and then the river is right there. The room was long and the podium was right up in the front and the tables were almost set up in a way where there were many rows of tables, but not that many columns, if it makes sense.I didn’t recognize this until maybe like, after an hour in, but people started taking seats because they wanted to be closer to the podium. And eventually, I’m like, damn, I gotta get a seat. But all that didn’t end up mattering because when Trump walked in, basically like a celebrity, everyone rushed up to the front and pulled out their phones and started recording. Who did you meet that was interesting or fun?Justin Sun was there, it was just that everyone wanted to talk to him. I guess the only thing I could do was just say hi to him. There were a bunch of international folks. A few folks were from Poland, who came all the way here from Portugal, where they now live. There was a lot of Asian people there. I met some folks from South Korea. Some guys from France, Italy. There was this hedge fund manager from Croatia who came just to check this out. Some guy from Sweden.There were also some market-making firms, like really big in crypto, like Wintermute. And then another guy who works at Kronos Research. The organizers also brought some folks, like the founder of the Moonshot app. I guess Moonshot had partnered with folks with the $TRUMP launch back in January. He said he didn’t buy any tokens because none of the employees are allowed to trade, and so he was just invited by the organizers.There were a bunch of folks in the crypto ecosystem, now that I think about it, who actually had effectively insider knowledge that Trump was gonna launch a coin. They didn’t know exactly what that was gonna be, but they knew it was coming and it was gonna be a real coin.
For the first hour or two, people were wondering if Trump’s account got hacked. I just thought that was interesting, that it was effectively prewired to a lot of folks. Ah, so like: if those people knew, then they had that first mover advantage for that full hour – that it was a legitimate coin?Yeah, the public didn’t know whether it was an intentional drop or if some hackers hacked the Twitter account. I ended up meeting one of the top winners, and he was telling me how he hedged his tradeDid you find any really diehard MAGA people there?I’m sure that there were a couple of folks.
I just never got a chance to speak with someone who’s like, super pro-Trump. I’d say the majority of people I spoke with, particularly the crypto traders and folks who are very close to the crypto ecosystem are like, yeah, I dumped this. I already sold the coin. A lot of people put on the same hedge trade as I did, because they didn’t wanna take risk on the coin. I ended up meeting one of the top winners, and he was telling me how he hedged his trade. So effectively, he was taking on no price risk. Now the only thing is when you short these tokens, there’s a funding cost, but because he had such a big position the funding was actually pretty significant. 
So he said he paid, I don’t know, like in funding costs, but to him it was still worth it, especially since he got a watch that’s supposedly worth if you’re in the top four. Wait, they gave out watches?
Yeah. When Justin went up and gave the speech, after that, he got the watch.Honestly to meet the president and get a watch that’s twice that amount, is a pretty good deal. Yeah. I had no idea yet that there’s a TrumpWatches.com. I think the host referenced this — like, if you want a watch, just go on the website. I was like, this is real? And then I actually went on the website and it turned out it is. Swiss-made chrono movement – oh my God, there are so many watches. Do you see that one on the very front page? They gave out two of those as prizes for raffle winners. Oh, that’s only man.Yeah, I know, right?Lame. I guess you can’t yet buy the watch on this website. They were specially designed and they only were able to have two ready for the event, and the other two will get shipped to the winners. 
A commemorative hat.Did people post photos or selfies, or was there a sense of discretion?There were obviously crypto traders who didn’t wanna give their real names, and some folks who were trying to be camera shy and avoid the limelight, but I feel like for the most part, people were taking selfies and they were just having a good time. And there were photographers walking around taking photos of everyone. And then at the end, this was after Trump and after all the gifts were given out, the host was like, everyone put on your hat that you got — it’s in my bag,
it’s a Trump meme dinner hat — let’s all put it on and take a photo and then hashtag “trumpmemedinner” or whatever.Oh, okay, so they actually encouraged you to put it on the Internet. 
I guess the host took the photo and it was like a selfie or something. The other funny moment was during the Trump speech. For the most part, it was just him talking about his campaign, and about how he beat Biden, and blah, blah, blah, how we were in a terrible place with crypto before he got elected and now we’re in a great place. That sounds exactly like a thing Trump would say. That was pretty accurate. At one point, the microphone made a cracking sound and then he was like, whoops, my ear. and he made a joke referencing the assassination attempt. A poster promoting the afterparty.How did you figure out about the afterparty? Was it the official afterparty? 
A lot of folks were saying there was gonna be some afterparty exclusive to VIPs, like the top 25 holders. There were a few folks who were trying to get into this party, but then it turns out it was actually not that exclusive. This MemeCore group, the number two holder, they rented out space at the rooftop of this Marriott and effectively invited everyone. So when you were leaving the venue, they had a couple buses that would come every 10 minutes and they were like, yeah, feel free to take this bus and we’ll take you to the after-party. A lot of people ended up going. 
How was the afterparty? Was it well funded? They had an open bar, free drinks. It was fine, nothing like that noteworthy.
See More: #how #shorted #trump #coin #got
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    How I shorted $TRUMP coin (and got to have dinner with the President)
    Last month, Donald Trump pushed the boundaries of government and financial ethics by announcing a contest: whoever bought and held the highest amount of the $TRUMP meme coin for an entire month would win an invite to a private dinner with the President. That dinner took place on Thursday at the Trump National Golf Course in Virginia, with attendees reportedly dropping nearly $394 million on $TRUMP in order to win the privilege. According to an analysis by The Guardian of the winners’ wallets, over half of them lost money participating in this contest. But that’s only if you’re analyzing the wallets visible on the contest site’s leaderboard. The real money was being made elsewhere.“Bet you 10 percent of dinner participants are doing this”I interviewed an enthusiastic crypto trader who figured out how to win the contest without losing any money: buy enough $TRUMP to get onto the leaderboard — and then in a separate wallet on a separate exchange, buy $TRUMP perpetual futures that would be profitable if (or as he saw it, when) the value of $TRUMP dropped. Yes, he did The Big Short, except with Donald Trump’s meme coin. “Bet you 10 percent of dinner participants are doing this,” he told me before the contest ended. “Everyone knows $TRUMP price will fall inevitably as more supply comes online in the future and gets dumped on retail.” When I spoke to him again after the dinner, he told me that “the majority of people I spoke with, particularly the crypto traders and folks who are very close to the crypto ecosystem, are like, ‘Yeah, I dumped this. I already sold the coin.’” “A lot of people put on the same hedge trade as I did, because they didn’t wanna take risk on the coin,” he added.I can’t reveal his name, his position on the leaderboard, how much he spent, or the dates of specific trades he made. I can say that he did this for shits and giggles. But as he told me, when there’s such a clear and obvious set of financial incentives behind the $TRUMP dinner contest, it’s worth making the gamble.Did it pay off? “Um, I basically was flat,” he said. “I originally wanted to make some money, but I think the shorting I did — it was okay?” He did, however, get a free dinner out of it. The following interview has been edited for clarity.Let’s just start from the beginning. What made you want to enter this? I think meme coins have a lot of staying power because humans just want things to gamble on. What was fascinating when the Trump token launched in January right before the inauguration, was that it effectively was like a black hole that sucked money away from all these other tokens in the ecosystem. That’s why the Trump token ran up to some preposterous number immediately after it was dropped. When I saw this competition launch, it was clear that there was going to be a tremendous amount of grift in this space, and the presidential family was only interested in self-enrichment and all that. 
It was clear that there was going to be a tremendous amount of grift in this spaceBut putting that aside, I’ve just been interested in the Trump token and I think I’ve just been structurally bearish, because the Trump token has a bunch of supply that’s currently controlled by, effectively, the Trump family and the associates. It’s only a matter of time before the supply unlocks. When that supply unlocks, in the crypto community, people call this dumping: they’ll just dump it onto retail and that’s how they get their exit liquidity. So that’s one way the Trump family can make money. The other way is obviously whenever there’s trades that happen, the trading fees also accrue to the family. I know that the Trump token is going to go down. If you put a gun into my head and ask, what will the price be two years from now? It’s going to be much lower than where it is today. When this contest launched, I was like, okay, this is clearly a way for the affiliates and the Trump family to find a way to drive up the price temporarily. And having been in this space for a while, it’s clear that these events only drive the price up for a period of time and then people lose interest. Unless you feed them something else, it’s going to drop. Everyone expects the token to dumpThey launched the contest right around when the first tranche of Trump tokens were going to unlock, which was supposed to be 90 days after the launch of the token back in January. And so this whole contest was kind of timed at an apt moment where it’s like, okay, supply’s going to unlock. Everyone expects the token to dump. But then, on Twitter, they agreed to delay the unlock for another 90 days. But once the unlock happens and they start dumping, that’s when the price is going to drop a lot. 
So this contest was interesting. I was like, okay, well, I feel like I can put on a trade here where I’m not taking on any real risk and I think it’ll be cool to meet random people at this dinner and see who else is interested. It seems like there are a lot of folks from out of the country who are flying in to attend the dinner, and a lot of crypto whales. There’s one that I follow, he’s mentioned in his Telegram that he’s one of the big holders. He’s talked these last few days about how he’s preparing for this dinner. So talk me through how you generated the funds to buy the Trump coin. Did you use your own personal funds?I use my personal funds. All the crypto trading I do is with my personal funds. Some of the trading I do is on Coinbase through a centralized exchange. And the rest of the trading I do is on chain through self-custody wallets. When this opportunity came up, the only way you can actually be in a position to be in the top 220 is if you own $TRUMP tokens in a self-custody wallet. Some of the exchanges, including Coinbase, allow you to buy the $TRUMP token, but that would not count towards this contest. What I did was I moved stablecoins like USDC to my Solana wallet, and then I used a decentralized exchange to buy the $TRUMP token. The way the contest works is you have to register your wallet before you are counted towards the ranking system. And unfortunately, I did that like a couple days late, so I had to size up a little bit more to ensure that I could catch up to the people who had registered a couple days prior. But that’s a nuance. So explain the process of shorting $TRUMP coin on a secondary market. Like how does one do that? I am a dumb person who only understands shorting markets through watching The Big Short. Basically when you short, you’re hoping that the price goes down, right? And the mechanism of shorting here is slightly different than shorting stocks, but we don’t need to go into the specifics here. The way to short [crypto] is, you can do it in two ways. One is through a centralized exchange that offers, effectively, shorting services. And what I mean here by shorting services is, there is a “perpetual future” that is offered at these exchanges. When I talk about exchanges that offer this, it’s mostly going to be like Binance or Bybits and some of the bigger exchanges outside of the US. Coinbase is very far behind when it comes to offering derivative products that goes above and beyond just buying the token. I couldn’t do it through Coinbase, and I can’t short through an exchange like Binance, because there’s a lot of restrictions around who can actually use Binance. I’m in the US and Binance has very strict VPN rules. I can’t just open a Binance account and short. The only real way for me was to short on a decentralized exchangeSo the only real way for me was to short on a decentralized exchange, which has actually become really popular in the last year or so. It’s like the same concept as shorting on Binance, but you can do it on chain. I use a service called Hyper Liquid, which is a very popular decentralized exchange. And on this exchange, they offer derivative products that basically track the movement of different tokens. And so they offer, effectively, $TRUMP perpetual futures, and you can effectively initiate a short position through that. I’m happy to go into the details if you want, but that’s like the high level. Yeah, yes, please please tell me these details. So that is basically how to set up the short position. Conceptually, there’s a few things to keep in mind. First thing is: because I’m shorting in a separate wallet that’s completely detached from $TRUMP, 
I have to put up additional capital in another wallet to do this. It’s not like I can just use my $TRUMP tokens as collateral and use the same pool of money to short. And the way shorting works and the way perpetual futures work in general is you put up a certain margin. So let’s keep it simple: say I put up $100k in margin and I choose to short the $TRUMP token. Now, if $TRUMP goes up in price, then I’m hurting, because I’m betting on the token falling. If the $TRUMP token doubles in price, well, then I will have lost a hundred thousand dollars in which case, my margin gets wiped out and this [futures] contract will have to be closed because I’ve lost all my money. If the token goes down in price, that’s when I profit — as long as I close out the position in the green. So you basically are juggling two wallets. One is the wallet in which you’re holding all this $TRUMP coin. 
The other one is like, how would you describe it? Is that the money that you’re generating in order to pay for participating in the contest? The most important wallet here is the Solana wallet with the $TRUMP tokens, because that’s what’s being used by the contest organizers to determine who makes the top 220. But as I mentioned earlier, I am structurally bearish on the $TRUMP token and I wouldn’t want to go for dinner and like, see my money go down when the $TRUMP token goes down in price. I decided I wanted to basically put on a hedge, where, using the other wallet and the short position, I’m basically agnostic to any sort of price movement. That’s the reason why I set up the other wallet. I could have taken on the price risk, but that’s pretty risky, because typically what happens with these events is that as we get close to the end of the contest date, people start dumping the $TRUMP tokens. The value of the $TRUMP token will have gone down — let’s say it went down to 90,000 — it would be offset by the short wallet, which would be like 110,000. And then they add up to 200,000, which is how much I hypothetically put in from the start. 
Did you make money off of this?Um, I basically was flat. I originally wanted to make some money, but I think the shorting I did — it was okay? I basically just broke even on this entire tradeLet me take a step back.
So initially I shorted the same amount as the token. But then as the time went on, as we got close to the contest end date, I decided to increase the size of the short position, because I thought that based on the thesis I had, people are going to start selling because there’s nothing to look forward to. And so I increased that size. But it just so happened that towards the end of the contest was also when the crypto markets started ripping after May 8th. So net-net, I think I basically just broke even on this entire trade.Define the crypto markets “ripping.”May 8th was basically the Thursday right before that weekend when the US representatives were going to meet the Chinese representatives in Switzerland [for tariff negotiations]. That day was also when the UK deal announcement was made. And so the market basically took that as a bullish sign, and then that got parlayed into the positive euphoria of the US-China negotiations. Everything started going up. Okay. So every market just started getting bullish. 
Yeah, all the tokens ran up a lot. If you look at the token price, $TRUMP coin on May 7th was roughly 11 bucks, and then on May 9th it was like 14 bucks. Over time that token has come down in price. But yeah, it ran up 40 percent in the span of like two days.What was the strategy going into the end game? 
Because it sounds like it was super volatile around the end and that’s why you needed to increase your short position. I thought that towards the end, I could opportunistically make some profits by shorting more than I owned, if that makes sense.[The previous week, the contest organizers announced a new incentive for winners to not sell the coin before the dinner: a rare “TRUMP DIAMOND HANDS” NFT.]What is the point of encouraging people to go diamond hands by offering this NFT? So I think this goes back to the incentives of Trump’s affiliates, right? They have a lot of supply that they own. Last I looked, they own eighty percent of the supply. But all of that, as with many other [crypto] projects, gets locked up and only gets released over time, so that you don’t have all this supply pressure on day one. Because then no one wants to buy the token. The whole point of the NFT and this subsequent rewards program that they’ve talked about, but haven’t given the details for, is to incentivize people to hold the token longer. The longer people hold the token, then the price arguably would not fall as much. 
The only way to keep the price high is if you introduce all these little games to keep retail engagedThe eventual setup, I’m sure, whether that’s in three months or in a year or two, is that the affiliates will then have their supply unlock, and they will want to sell. They obviously want to sell at a higher price. And the only way to keep the price high is if you introduce all these little games to keep retail engaged and interested in holding tokens. How do you get the NFT now? Do you have to rebuy all the coin?Yeah, my understanding based on that tweet they sent is, they basically look at your wallet holdings on the day of the dinner and compare that to your wallet holdings on the last day of the contest. And so if those match or if you own more, then they’ll give you an NFT. I was kind of dumb. What I should have done was, right before the 1:30PM cut off, I should have sold like, 90 percent of my tokens. In this way, on the dinner day, I would only have to buy 10 percent of what I bought previously, and I think I would qualify for this NFT. 
Wow. Have people done that? Well, the NFT hasn’t been dropped yet.
I don’t know the specifics. There are definitely people who sold before the end of the deadline, and that’s clear from even looking at that leaderboard page, right? There’s one column with current holdings and a bunch were zeroed out, but they are still in the top 220 because it’s a time-weighted calculation.Why did they do time-weighted calculations rather than like, just a cumulative amount of money you held at the end? I think this goes back to solving not only how much do you hold, but how long do you hold it for, and rewarding people differently. So if you held $60 over the entire stretch of the contest, you should be rewarded more than someone who held like $200 for one day on the last day. I think the time-weighted calculation effectively is trying to normalize for that. They also gave me a call the same day, which I thought was spam for a secondHow have the organizers been in their interactions with you for the contest and for the dinner and everything?They emailed me the day of, as soon as the
contest ended, saying that I had made it into the top 220. And they also gave me a call the same day, which I thought was spam for a second. But when the voicemail thing came up, I’m like, oh, this is actually a real thing. So I picked up the phone and then they just confirmed that I got the email and that I would have to do a KYC [Know Your Customer check, part of anti-money laundering regulatory compliance for banks, crypto exchanges, and other entities] in order to qualify for the dinner. Please give us your data, references, whatever. 
Yeah, nothing that sophisticated. They outsourced it to another party and I just provided my name, my nationality, where I live. No social security number or anything like that. Plus my birthday. and I think they just ran like an external check to make sure that I wasn’t a criminal or anything like that. I feel like it was pretty light vettingHow thoroughly do you think they’re been vetting you, how professional has the process been? I feel like it was pretty light vetting. I talked to someone about, let’s say, getting into the White House and it’s a lot more strict in terms of, you have to show your passport and all that. And here, you don’t really have to do that. You just have to show your ID at the door. At least that’s what they said. And as long as your ID matches the information you gave, you’re fine. So I don’t think the security is that strict, per se, but it’s good enough, I guess. Have you participated in any contests like this or heard of anything similar? No, I have not.That’s wild. This is rather innovative if one thinks about it in a “divorced from most governmental ethics” manner. Did you read about how it’s possible that Trump just doesn’t show up to this?I did see something that basically said, yeah, based on the terms and conditions, the president does not have to be there, I think. Honestly, I think a lot of people aren’t really there to see Trump. I could be totally wrong, but I get the sense from, let’s say, like looking at the crypto whales’ Telegram, that [they’re] more interested in just meeting other crypto folks so that [they] can network. If Justin Sun is there, that’s pretty good, right? Like being able to talk to him and maybe, you know, get his contact information and all that. RelatedThe many escapes of Justin SunI think for me and probably other people, we’re more interested in seeing if there’s any other interesting news that comes out of this dinner. I will have my wallet ready, and if some great news gets dropped at the dinner, that could potentially positively influence the $TRUMP token price or any other token price, I will buy it on the spot and try to profit. This is something that other attendees are thinking about doing too?I can’t say with certainty, but based on that one Telegram guy, it seemed like it was implied. Like, if they announced a rewards program for a Trump thing – say, the NFT will be used for this, and then the rewards will give you some really impressive thing in three months, that could probably move the price. Then I would take on a short-term trade literally at the dinner table. That’s why after the $TRUMP token dropped right before inauguration, I finally decided to download Truth SocialThat’s a first mover advantage right there.In crypto, half of it is just being a first mover advantage. That’s why after the $TRUMP token dropped right before inauguration, I finally decided to download Truth Social. I only follow Trump. He’s the only guy I follow and I have notifications on, which actually served me well. Was it April 9th when he sent out that tweet saying that tariffs are now delayed for 90 days? That was first out on Truth Social and I saw that immediately, and I’m like, oh, time to trade my equities, because I will be first to the news. So he’s dropped some nuggets for sure on his account. So the dinner itself is a good money making opportunity?Possibly. It’s hard to say, but in the event that it does, there is some information that gets dropped, that could be actionable.Is there anything you’re particularly proud of about the process of executing this short?I don’t know if there’s anything I’d really brag about or be like, super proud of.
I think this hedge trade, for someone who’s pretty involved in crypto, would be fairly obvious. Net-net, I think I broke even because I did basically go a bit big around my short towards the end of the contest. So that made up for some of the fees I had to pay and whatnot. I’m pretty happy.
I feel like I didn’t take on any risk and I’m able to go to this dinner. That’s probably a win in my books. One thing is, if I had real capital, I would have tried to make the top 25. That requires a lot of money, which I don’t have. I don’t really care about seeing Trump at all. I care more about seeing who else is there, of the top 25I think it’s like a couple million.I think you’d have to have 200,000 tokens, so yeah, roughly like two, three million USD. 
And if you want to not take on the risk of the token price moving, you’d want to take a short position of roughly the same size. It would be like a four or five million dollar capital outlay to make it happen. But the benefit of being in the top 25 is you get to meet Trump, and also get to be in a more intimate networking session, which I would actually enjoy being at. I don’t really care about seeing Trump at all. I care more about seeing who else is there, of the top 25. What was the minimum size of the wallet that made 220, do you know? It’s hard to say because what someone could have done is they could have bought a lot initially, and then halfway through they sold most of them, because they were pretty confident that they would make the top 220, because it’s time weighted. [Calculating out loud omitted.] I guess only fifty thousand [if you held the total amount from day one through the end].Honestly, that’s not a lot. It’s not. 
Realistically that number is probably higher. The thing is, this is not like a $50,000 disbursement where you’re never seeing that money again. After the dinner, you could choose to sell your token. Now, maybe the price will have moved from when you first bought it to when you sold it, but the actual loss, or potentially profit, is not obvious.Oh, that makes this some really interesting campaign finance implications. I guess the one thing I’ll say is, the Trump team probably won’t sell for a couple months at very least. And so whatever happens between now and then theoretically doesn’t really impact the team, right? Because if they had not launched this dinner contest and they did nothing, and then right before the unlock happens, they launch another campaign or they do something weird like this, then that will immediately pump up the price because crypto is so reflexive. And they can then sell into the strength of the price movement, theoretically. But here, I think what they want to do is actually show that this $TRUMP token has utility, and that it’s actually useful rather than just being a meme coin. And this is one way of making the $TRUMP token worth holding, because it’s not just a meme. If you buy it, you can go to dinner, you can earn points. You can get an NFT. It’s basically the playbook that a lot of folks will potentially run if they’re launching a meme coin with utility value. Oh, utility value is definitely a good way of saying it. Yeah, utility value in the sense that yeah, you can go to dinner, you can get an NFT, you can earn points that will get you something in the future. But yeah, this is a little bit different from memes like Pepe or Doge or Shiba Inu. Those have zero utility values. They’re literally just a meme. You can’t go to a dinner if you own a lot of it. It’s just a meme. The morning after the dinner:How are you? How was your crazy night out?It was good. And yeah, there was a sponsor who wanted to do an afterparty afterwards. They basically rented out the rooftop bar on top of the Marriott. I stayed out until 1 AM. But it was good. The actual event was quite interesting. The protests outside the dinner obviously were just kind of off-putting. I was like, damn, should I really walk into this thing?Activists staged an “America Is Not For Sale” protest while President Trump hosted the winners of his meme coin contest at the Trump National golf club. Getty ImagesI’ve actually never been to the Trump National. How is it as a venue? It’s on the Potomac River. When you are in the club you can see the really nice golf course and then the river is right there. The room was long and the podium was right up in the front and the tables were almost set up in a way where there were many rows of tables, but not that many columns, if it makes sense.I didn’t recognize this until maybe like, after an hour in, but people started taking seats because they wanted to be closer to the podium. And eventually, I’m like, damn, I gotta get a seat. But all that didn’t end up mattering because when Trump walked in, basically like a celebrity, everyone rushed up to the front and pulled out their phones and started recording. Who did you meet that was interesting or fun?Justin Sun was there, it was just that everyone wanted to talk to him. I guess the only thing I could do was just say hi to him. There were a bunch of international folks. A few folks were from Poland, who came all the way here from Portugal, where they now live. There was a lot of Asian people there. I met some folks from South Korea. Some guys from France, Italy. There was this hedge fund manager from Croatia who came just to check this out. Some guy from Sweden.There were also some market-making firms, like really big in crypto, like Wintermute. And then another guy who works at Kronos Research. The organizers also brought some folks, like the founder of the Moonshot app. I guess Moonshot had partnered with folks with the $TRUMP launch back in January. He said he didn’t buy any tokens because none of the employees are allowed to trade [the meme coins on their own platform, because it would be a conflict of interest], and so he was just invited by the organizers.[According to Crunchbase, Moonshot, an app that enables users to purchase meme coins, was acquired by Jupiter, a Solana trading platform. No named individuals appear to be publicly associated with either enterprise, although Jupiter’s founder is apparently someone going by the name “Meow.” The guest interviewed by The Verge did not recognize Meow from photos. – Ed.]There were a bunch of folks in the crypto ecosystem, now that I think about it, who actually had effectively insider knowledge that Trump was gonna launch a coin. They didn’t know exactly what that was gonna be, but they knew it was coming and it was gonna be a real coin.
For the first hour or two [after the announcement], people were wondering if Trump’s account got hacked. I just thought that was interesting, that it was effectively prewired to a lot of folks. Ah, so like: if those people knew, then they had that first mover advantage for that full hour – that it was a legitimate coin?Yeah, the public didn’t know whether it was an intentional drop or if some hackers hacked the Twitter account. I ended up meeting one of the top winners, and he was telling me how he hedged his tradeDid you find any really diehard MAGA people there?I’m sure that there were a couple of folks.
I just never got a chance to speak with someone who’s like, super pro-Trump. I’d say the majority of people I spoke with, particularly the crypto traders and folks who are very close to the crypto ecosystem are like, yeah, I dumped this. I already sold the coin. A lot of people put on the same hedge trade as I did, because they didn’t wanna take risk on the coin. I ended up meeting one of the top winners, and he was telling me how he hedged his trade. So effectively, he was taking on no price risk. Now the only thing is when you short these tokens, there’s a funding cost, but because he had such a big position the funding was actually pretty significant. 
So he said he paid, I don’t know, like $50,000 in funding costs, but to him it was still worth it, especially since he got a watch that’s supposedly worth $100,000 if you’re in the top four. Wait, they gave out watches?
Yeah. When Justin went up and gave the speech, after that, he got the watch.Honestly $50,000 to meet the president and get a watch that’s twice that amount, is a pretty good deal. Yeah. I had no idea yet that there’s a TrumpWatches.com. I think the host referenced this — like, if you want a watch, just go on the website. I was like, this is real? And then I actually went on the website and it turned out it is. Swiss-made chrono movement – oh my God, there are so many watches. Do you see that one on the very front page? They gave out two of those as prizes for raffle winners. Oh, that’s only $500, man.Yeah, I know, right?Lame. I guess you can’t yet buy the $100,000 watch on this website. They were specially designed and they only were able to have two ready for the event, and the other two will get shipped to the winners. 
[The website currently lists the “Crypto President Tourbillon Watch” for pre-order, claiming that “only 10” have been made. – Ed.]A commemorative hat.Did people post photos or selfies, or was there a sense of discretion?There were obviously crypto traders who didn’t wanna give their real names, and some folks who were trying to be camera shy and avoid the limelight, but I feel like for the most part, people were taking selfies and they were just having a good time. And there were photographers walking around taking photos of everyone. And then at the end, this was after Trump and after all the gifts were given out, the host was like, everyone put on your hat that you got — it’s in my bag,
it’s a Trump meme dinner hat — let’s all put it on and take a photo and then hashtag “trumpmemedinner” or whatever.[The White House is refusing to release the guest list with names of attendees. The New York Times has since said that it has acquired a copy of that list.Although photos of the gifted hats have circulated on social media, no related hashtag seems to have taken off. – Ed.] Oh, okay, so they actually encouraged you to put it on the Internet. 
I guess the host took the photo and it was like a selfie or something. The other funny moment was during the Trump speech. For the most part, it was just him talking about his campaign, and about how he beat Biden, and blah, blah, blah, how we were in a terrible place with crypto before he got elected and now we’re in a great place. That sounds exactly like a thing Trump would say. That was pretty accurate. At one point, the microphone made a cracking sound and then he was like, whoops, my ear. and he made a joke referencing the assassination attempt. A poster promoting the afterparty.How did you figure out about the afterparty? Was it the official afterparty? 
A lot of folks were saying there was gonna be some afterparty exclusive to VIPs, like the top 25 holders. There were a few folks who were trying to get into this party, but then it turns out it was actually not that exclusive. This MemeCore group, the number two holder, they rented out space at the rooftop of this Marriott and effectively invited everyone. So when you were leaving the venue, they had a couple buses that would come every 10 minutes and they were like, yeah, feel free to take this bus and we’ll take you to the after-party. A lot of people ended up going. 
[On TikTok, an attendee wearing a giant mask of what appears to be the MemeCore mascot, was accused of covering his face “to hide their identities” at “Trump’s crypto bribery event.” – Ed.] How was the afterparty? Was it well funded? They had an open bar, free drinks. It was fine, nothing like that noteworthy.
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  • Step-by-Step Guide to Build a Customizable Multi-Tool AI Agent with LangGraph and Claude for Dynamic Agent Creation

    In this comprehensive tutorial, we guide users through creating a powerful multi-tool AI agent using LangGraph and Claude, optimized for diverse tasks including mathematical computations, web searches, weather inquiries, text analysis, and real-time information retrieval. It begins by simplifying dependency installations to ensure effortless setup, even for beginners. Users are then introduced to structured implementations of specialized tools, such as a safe calculator, an efficient web-search utility leveraging DuckDuckGo, a mock weather information provider, a detailed text analyzer, and a time-fetching function. The tutorial also clearly delineates the integration of these tools within a sophisticated agent architecture built using LangGraph, illustrating practical usage through interactive examples and clear explanations, facilitating both beginners and advanced developers to deploy custom multi-functional AI agents rapidly.
    import subprocess
    import sys

    def install_packages:
    packages =for package in packages:
    try:
    subprocess.check_callprintexcept subprocess.CalledProcessError:
    printprintinstall_packagesprintWe automate the installation of essential Python packages required for building a LangGraph-based multi-tool AI agent. It leverages a subprocess to run pip commands silently and ensures each package, ranging from long-chain components to web search and environment handling tools, is installed successfully. This setup streamlines the environment preparation process, making the notebook portable and beginner-friendly.
    import os
    import json
    import math
    import requests
    from typing import Dict, List, Any, Annotated, TypedDict
    from datetime import datetime
    import operator

    from langchain_core.messages import BaseMessage, HumanMessage, AIMessage, ToolMessage
    from langchain_core.tools import tool
    from langchain_anthropic import ChatAnthropic
    from langgraph.graph import StateGraph, START, END
    from langgraph.prebuilt import ToolNode
    from langgraph.checkpoint.memory import MemorySaver
    from duckduckgo_search import DDGS
    We import all the necessary libraries and modules for constructing the multi-tool AI agent. It includes Python standard libraries such as os, json, math, and datetime for general-purpose functionality and external libraries like requests for HTTP calls and duckduckgo_search for implementing web search. The LangChain and LangGraph ecosystems bring in message types, tool decorators, state graph components, and checkpointing utilities, while ChatAnthropic enables integration with the Claude model for conversational intelligence. These imports form the foundational building blocks for defining tools, agent workflows, and interactions.
    os.environ= "Use Your API Key Here"

    ANTHROPIC_API_KEY = os.getenvWe set and retrieve the Anthropic API key required to authenticate and interact with Claude models. The os.environ line assigns your API key, while os.getenv securely retrieves it for later use in model initialization. This approach ensures the key is accessible throughout the script without hardcoding it multiple times.
    from typing import TypedDict

    class AgentState:
    messages: Annotated, operator.add]

    @tool
    def calculator-> str:
    """
    Perform mathematical calculations. Supports basic arithmetic, trigonometry, and more.

    Args:
    expression: Mathematical expression as a string")

    Returns:
    Result of the calculation as a string
    """
    try:
    allowed_names = {
    'abs': abs, 'round': round, 'min': min, 'max': max,
    'sum': sum, 'pow': pow, 'sqrt': math.sqrt,
    'sin': math.sin, 'cos': math.cos, 'tan': math.tan,
    'log': math.log, 'log10': math.log10, 'exp': math.exp,
    'pi': math.pi, 'e': math.e
    }

    expression = expression.replaceresult = evalreturn f"Result: {result}"
    except Exception as e:
    return f"Error in calculation: {str}"
    We define the agent’s internal state and implement a robust calculator tool. The AgentState class uses TypedDict to structure agent memory, specifically tracking messages exchanged during the conversation. The calculator function, decorated with @tool to register it as an AI-usable utility, securely evaluates mathematical expressions. It allows for safe computation by limiting available functions to a predefined set from the math module and replacing common syntax like ^ with Python’s exponentiation operator. This ensures the tool can handle simple arithmetic and advanced functions like trigonometry or logarithms while preventing unsafe code execution.
    @tool
    def web_search-> str:
    """
    Search the web for information using DuckDuckGo.

    Args:
    query: Search query string
    num_results: Number of results to returnReturns:
    Search results as formatted string
    """
    try:
    num_results = min, 10)

    with DDGSas ddgs:
    results = list)

    if not results:
    return f"No search results found for: {query}"

    formatted_results = f"Search results for '{query}':\n\n"
    for i, result in enumerate:
    formatted_results += f"{i}. **{result}**\n"
    formatted_results += f" {result}\n"
    formatted_results += f" Source: {result}\n\n"

    return formatted_results
    except Exception as e:
    return f"Error performing web search: {str}"
    We define a web_search tool that enables the agent to fetch real-time information from the internet using the DuckDuckGo Search API via the duckduckgo_search Python package. The tool accepts a search query and an optional num_results parameter, ensuring that the number of results returned is between 1 and 10. It opens a DuckDuckGo search session, retrieves the results, and formats them neatly for user-friendly display. If no results are found or an error occurs, the function handles it gracefully by returning an informative message. This tool equips the agent with real-time search capabilities, enhancing responsiveness and utility.
    @tool
    def weather_info-> str:
    """
    Get current weather information for a city using OpenWeatherMap API.
    Note: This is a mock implementation for demo purposes.

    Args:
    city: Name of the city

    Returns:
    Weather information as a string
    """
    mock_weather = {
    "new york": {"temp": 22, "condition": "Partly Cloudy", "humidity": 65},
    "london": {"temp": 15, "condition": "Rainy", "humidity": 80},
    "tokyo": {"temp": 28, "condition": "Sunny", "humidity": 70},
    "paris": {"temp": 18, "condition": "Overcast", "humidity": 75}
    }

    city_lower = city.lowerif city_lower in mock_weather:
    weather = mock_weatherreturn f"Weather in {city}:\n" \
    f"Temperature: {weather}°C\n" \
    f"Condition: {weather}\n" \
    f"Humidity: {weather}%"
    else:
    return f"Weather data not available for {city}."
    We define a weather_info tool that simulates retrieving current weather data for a given city. While it does not connect to a live weather API, it uses a predefined dictionary of mock data for major cities like New York, London, Tokyo, and Paris. Upon receiving a city name, the function normalizes it to lowercase and checks for its presence in the mock dataset. It returns temperature, weather condition, and humidity in a readable format if found. Otherwise, it notifies the user that weather data is unavailable. This tool serves as a placeholder and can later be upgraded to fetch live data from an actual weather API.
    @tool
    def text_analyzer-> str:
    """
    Analyze text and provide statistics like word count, character count, etc.

    Args:
    text: Text to analyze

    Returns:
    Text analysis results
    """
    if not text.strip:
    return "Please provide text to analyze."

    words = text.splitsentences = text.split+ text.split+ text.splitsentences =analysis = f"Text Analysis Results:\n"
    analysis += f"• Characters: {len}\n"
    analysis += f"• Characters: {len)}\n"
    analysis += f"• Words: {len}\n"
    analysis += f"• Sentences: {len}\n"
    analysis += f"• Average words per sentence: {len/ max, 1):.1f}\n"
    analysis += f"• Most common word: {max, key=words.count) if words else 'N/A'}"

    return analysis
    The text_analyzer tool provides a detailed statistical analysis of a given text input. It calculates metrics such as character count, word count, sentence count, and average words per sentence, and it identifies the most frequently occurring word. The tool handles empty input gracefully by prompting the user to provide valid text. It uses simple string operations and Python’s set and max functions to extract meaningful insights. It is a valuable utility for language analysis or content quality checks in the AI agent’s toolkit.
    @tool
    def current_time-> str:
    """
    Get the current date and time.

    Returns:
    Current date and time as a formatted string
    """
    now = datetime.nowreturn f"Current date and time: {now.strftime}"
    The current_time tool provides a straightforward way to retrieve the current system date and time in a human-readable format. Using Python’s datetime module, it captures the present moment and formats it as YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS. This utility is particularly useful for time-stamping responses or answering user queries about the current date and time within the AI agent’s interaction flow.
    tools =def create_llm:
    if ANTHROPIC_API_KEY:
    return ChatAnthropicelse:
    class MockLLM:
    def invoke:
    last_message = messages.content if messages else ""

    if anyfor word in):
    import re
    numbers = re.findall\s\w]+', last_message)
    expr = numbersif numbers else "2+2"
    return AIMessage}, "id": "calc1"}])
    elif anyfor word in):
    query = last_message.replace.replace.replace.stripif not query or len< 3:
    query = "python programming"
    return AIMessageelif anyfor word in):
    city = "New York"
    words = last_message.lower.splitfor i, word in enumerate:
    if word == 'in' and i + 1 < len:
    city = words.titlebreak
    return AIMessageelif anyfor word in):
    return AIMessageelif anyfor word in):
    text = last_message.replace.replace.stripif not text:
    text = "Sample text for analysis"
    return AIMessageelse:
    return AIMessagedef bind_tools:
    return self

    printreturn MockLLMllm = create_llmllm_with_tools = llm.bind_toolsWe initialize the language model that powers the AI agent. If a valid Anthropic API key is available, it uses the Claude 3 Haiku model for high-quality responses. Without an API key, a MockLLM is defined to simulate basic tool-routing behavior based on keyword matching, allowing the agent to function offline with limited capabilities. The bind_tools method links the defined tools to the model, enabling it to invoke them as needed.
    def agent_node-> Dict:
    """Main agent node that processes messages and decides on tool usage."""
    messages = stateresponse = llm_with_tools.invokereturn {"messages":}

    def should_continue-> str:
    """Determine whether to continue with tool calls or end."""
    last_message = stateif hasattrand last_message.tool_calls:
    return "tools"
    return END
    We define the agent’s core decision-making logic. The agent_node function handles incoming messages, invokes the language model, and returns the model’s response. The should_continue function then evaluates whether the model’s response includes tool calls. If so, it routes control to the tool execution node; otherwise, it directs the flow to end the interaction. These functions enable dynamic and conditional transitions within the agent’s workflow.
    def create_agent_graph:
    tool_node = ToolNodeworkflow = StateGraphworkflow.add_nodeworkflow.add_nodeworkflow.add_edgeworkflow.add_conditional_edgesworkflow.add_edgememory = MemorySaverapp = workflow.compilereturn app

    printagent = create_agent_graphprintWe construct the LangGraph-powered workflow that defines the AI agent’s operational structure. It initializes a ToolNode to handle tool executions and uses a StateGraph to organize the flow between agent decisions and tool usage. Nodes and edges are added to manage transitions: starting with the agent, conditionally routing to tools, and looping back as needed. A MemorySaver is integrated for persistent state tracking across turns. The graph is compiled into an executable application, enabling a structured, memory-aware multi-tool agent ready for deployment.
    def test_agent:
    """Test the agent with various queries."""
    config = {"configurable": {"thread_id": "test-thread"}}

    test_queries =printfor i, query in enumerate:
    printprinttry:
    response = agent.invoke]},
    config=config
    )

    last_message = responseprintexcept Exception as e:
    print}\n")
    The test_agent function is a validation utility that ensures that the LangGraph agent responds correctly across different use cases. It runs predefined queries, arithmetic, web search, weather, time, and text analysis, and prints the agent’s responses. Using a consistent thread_id for configuration, it invokes the agent with each query. It neatly displays the results, helping developers verify tool integration and conversational logic before moving to interactive or production use.
    def chat_with_agent:
    """Interactive chat function."""
    config = {"configurable": {"thread_id": "interactive-thread"}}

    printprintprintwhile True:
    try:
    user_input = input.stripif user_input.lowerin:
    printbreak
    elif user_input.lower== 'help':
    printprint?'")
    printprintprintprintprintcontinue
    elif not user_input:
    continue

    response = agent.invoke]},
    config=config
    )

    last_message = responseprintexcept KeyboardInterrupt:
    printbreak
    except Exception as e:
    print}\n")
    The chat_with_agent function provides an interactive command-line interface for real-time conversations with the LangGraph multi-tool agent. It supports natural language queries and recognizes commands like “help” for usage guidance and “quit” to exit. Each user input is processed through the agent, which dynamically selects and invokes appropriate response tools. The function enhances user engagement by simulating a conversational experience and showcasing the agent’s capabilities in handling various queries, from math and web search to weather, text analysis, and time retrieval.
    if __name__ == "__main__":
    test_agentprintprintprintchat_with_agentdef quick_demo:
    """Quick demonstration of agent capabilities."""
    config = {"configurable": {"thread_id": "demo"}}

    demos =printfor category, query in demos:
    printtry:
    response = agent.invoke]},
    config=config
    )
    printexcept Exception as e:
    print}\n")

    printprintprintprintprintfor a quick demonstration")
    printfor interactive chat")
    printprintprintFinally, we orchestrate the execution of the LangGraph multi-tool agent. If the script is run directly, it initiates test_agentto validate functionality with sample queries, followed by launching the interactive chat_with_agentmode for real-time interaction. The quick_demofunction also briefly showcases the agent’s capabilities in math, search, and time queries. Clear usage instructions are printed at the end, guiding users on configuring the API key, running demonstrations, and interacting with the agent. This provides a smooth onboarding experience for users to explore and extend the agent’s functionality.
    In conclusion, this step-by-step tutorial gives valuable insights into building an effective multi-tool AI agent leveraging LangGraph and Claude’s generative capabilities. With straightforward explanations and hands-on demonstrations, the guide empowers users to integrate diverse utilities into a cohesive and interactive system. The agent’s flexibility in performing tasks, from complex calculations to dynamic information retrieval, showcases the versatility of modern AI development frameworks. Also, the inclusion of user-friendly functions for both testing and interactive chat enhances practical understanding, enabling immediate application in various contexts. Developers can confidently extend and customize their AI agents with this foundational knowledge.

    Check out the Notebook on GitHub. All credit for this research goes to the researchers of this project. Also, feel free to follow us on Twitter and don’t forget to join our 95k+ ML SubReddit and Subscribe to our Newsletter.
    Asif RazzaqWebsite |  + postsBioAsif Razzaq is the CEO of Marktechpost Media Inc.. As a visionary entrepreneur and engineer, Asif is committed to harnessing the potential of Artificial Intelligence for social good. His most recent endeavor is the launch of an Artificial Intelligence Media Platform, Marktechpost, which stands out for its in-depth coverage of machine learning and deep learning news that is both technically sound and easily understandable by a wide audience. The platform boasts of over 2 million monthly views, illustrating its popularity among audiences.Asif Razzaqhttps://www.marktechpost.com/author/6flvq/A Comprehensive Coding Guide to Crafting Advanced Round-Robin Multi-Agent Workflows with Microsoft AutoGenAsif Razzaqhttps://www.marktechpost.com/author/6flvq/Microsoft AI Introduces Magentic-UI: An Open-Source Agent Prototype that Works with People to Complete Complex Tasks that Require Multi-Step Planning and Browser UseAsif Razzaqhttps://www.marktechpost.com/author/6flvq/Anthropic Releases Claude Opus 4 and Claude Sonnet 4: A Technical Leap in Reasoning, Coding, and AI Agent DesignAsif Razzaqhttps://www.marktechpost.com/author/6flvq/Technology Innovation Institute TII Releases Falcon-H1: Hybrid Transformer-SSM Language Models for Scalable, Multilingual, and Long-Context Understanding
    #stepbystep #guide #build #customizable #multitool
    Step-by-Step Guide to Build a Customizable Multi-Tool AI Agent with LangGraph and Claude for Dynamic Agent Creation
    In this comprehensive tutorial, we guide users through creating a powerful multi-tool AI agent using LangGraph and Claude, optimized for diverse tasks including mathematical computations, web searches, weather inquiries, text analysis, and real-time information retrieval. It begins by simplifying dependency installations to ensure effortless setup, even for beginners. Users are then introduced to structured implementations of specialized tools, such as a safe calculator, an efficient web-search utility leveraging DuckDuckGo, a mock weather information provider, a detailed text analyzer, and a time-fetching function. The tutorial also clearly delineates the integration of these tools within a sophisticated agent architecture built using LangGraph, illustrating practical usage through interactive examples and clear explanations, facilitating both beginners and advanced developers to deploy custom multi-functional AI agents rapidly. import subprocess import sys def install_packages: packages =for package in packages: try: subprocess.check_callprintexcept subprocess.CalledProcessError: printprintinstall_packagesprintWe automate the installation of essential Python packages required for building a LangGraph-based multi-tool AI agent. It leverages a subprocess to run pip commands silently and ensures each package, ranging from long-chain components to web search and environment handling tools, is installed successfully. This setup streamlines the environment preparation process, making the notebook portable and beginner-friendly. import os import json import math import requests from typing import Dict, List, Any, Annotated, TypedDict from datetime import datetime import operator from langchain_core.messages import BaseMessage, HumanMessage, AIMessage, ToolMessage from langchain_core.tools import tool from langchain_anthropic import ChatAnthropic from langgraph.graph import StateGraph, START, END from langgraph.prebuilt import ToolNode from langgraph.checkpoint.memory import MemorySaver from duckduckgo_search import DDGS We import all the necessary libraries and modules for constructing the multi-tool AI agent. It includes Python standard libraries such as os, json, math, and datetime for general-purpose functionality and external libraries like requests for HTTP calls and duckduckgo_search for implementing web search. The LangChain and LangGraph ecosystems bring in message types, tool decorators, state graph components, and checkpointing utilities, while ChatAnthropic enables integration with the Claude model for conversational intelligence. These imports form the foundational building blocks for defining tools, agent workflows, and interactions. os.environ= "Use Your API Key Here" ANTHROPIC_API_KEY = os.getenvWe set and retrieve the Anthropic API key required to authenticate and interact with Claude models. The os.environ line assigns your API key, while os.getenv securely retrieves it for later use in model initialization. This approach ensures the key is accessible throughout the script without hardcoding it multiple times. from typing import TypedDict class AgentState: messages: Annotated, operator.add] @tool def calculator-> str: """ Perform mathematical calculations. Supports basic arithmetic, trigonometry, and more. Args: expression: Mathematical expression as a string") Returns: Result of the calculation as a string """ try: allowed_names = { 'abs': abs, 'round': round, 'min': min, 'max': max, 'sum': sum, 'pow': pow, 'sqrt': math.sqrt, 'sin': math.sin, 'cos': math.cos, 'tan': math.tan, 'log': math.log, 'log10': math.log10, 'exp': math.exp, 'pi': math.pi, 'e': math.e } expression = expression.replaceresult = evalreturn f"Result: {result}" except Exception as e: return f"Error in calculation: {str}" We define the agent’s internal state and implement a robust calculator tool. The AgentState class uses TypedDict to structure agent memory, specifically tracking messages exchanged during the conversation. The calculator function, decorated with @tool to register it as an AI-usable utility, securely evaluates mathematical expressions. It allows for safe computation by limiting available functions to a predefined set from the math module and replacing common syntax like ^ with Python’s exponentiation operator. This ensures the tool can handle simple arithmetic and advanced functions like trigonometry or logarithms while preventing unsafe code execution. @tool def web_search-> str: """ Search the web for information using DuckDuckGo. Args: query: Search query string num_results: Number of results to returnReturns: Search results as formatted string """ try: num_results = min, 10) with DDGSas ddgs: results = list) if not results: return f"No search results found for: {query}" formatted_results = f"Search results for '{query}':\n\n" for i, result in enumerate: formatted_results += f"{i}. **{result}**\n" formatted_results += f" {result}\n" formatted_results += f" Source: {result}\n\n" return formatted_results except Exception as e: return f"Error performing web search: {str}" We define a web_search tool that enables the agent to fetch real-time information from the internet using the DuckDuckGo Search API via the duckduckgo_search Python package. The tool accepts a search query and an optional num_results parameter, ensuring that the number of results returned is between 1 and 10. It opens a DuckDuckGo search session, retrieves the results, and formats them neatly for user-friendly display. If no results are found or an error occurs, the function handles it gracefully by returning an informative message. This tool equips the agent with real-time search capabilities, enhancing responsiveness and utility. @tool def weather_info-> str: """ Get current weather information for a city using OpenWeatherMap API. Note: This is a mock implementation for demo purposes. Args: city: Name of the city Returns: Weather information as a string """ mock_weather = { "new york": {"temp": 22, "condition": "Partly Cloudy", "humidity": 65}, "london": {"temp": 15, "condition": "Rainy", "humidity": 80}, "tokyo": {"temp": 28, "condition": "Sunny", "humidity": 70}, "paris": {"temp": 18, "condition": "Overcast", "humidity": 75} } city_lower = city.lowerif city_lower in mock_weather: weather = mock_weatherreturn f"Weather in {city}:\n" \ f"Temperature: {weather}°C\n" \ f"Condition: {weather}\n" \ f"Humidity: {weather}%" else: return f"Weather data not available for {city}." We define a weather_info tool that simulates retrieving current weather data for a given city. While it does not connect to a live weather API, it uses a predefined dictionary of mock data for major cities like New York, London, Tokyo, and Paris. Upon receiving a city name, the function normalizes it to lowercase and checks for its presence in the mock dataset. It returns temperature, weather condition, and humidity in a readable format if found. Otherwise, it notifies the user that weather data is unavailable. This tool serves as a placeholder and can later be upgraded to fetch live data from an actual weather API. @tool def text_analyzer-> str: """ Analyze text and provide statistics like word count, character count, etc. Args: text: Text to analyze Returns: Text analysis results """ if not text.strip: return "Please provide text to analyze." words = text.splitsentences = text.split+ text.split+ text.splitsentences =analysis = f"Text Analysis Results:\n" analysis += f"• Characters: {len}\n" analysis += f"• Characters: {len)}\n" analysis += f"• Words: {len}\n" analysis += f"• Sentences: {len}\n" analysis += f"• Average words per sentence: {len/ max, 1):.1f}\n" analysis += f"• Most common word: {max, key=words.count) if words else 'N/A'}" return analysis The text_analyzer tool provides a detailed statistical analysis of a given text input. It calculates metrics such as character count, word count, sentence count, and average words per sentence, and it identifies the most frequently occurring word. The tool handles empty input gracefully by prompting the user to provide valid text. It uses simple string operations and Python’s set and max functions to extract meaningful insights. It is a valuable utility for language analysis or content quality checks in the AI agent’s toolkit. @tool def current_time-> str: """ Get the current date and time. Returns: Current date and time as a formatted string """ now = datetime.nowreturn f"Current date and time: {now.strftime}" The current_time tool provides a straightforward way to retrieve the current system date and time in a human-readable format. Using Python’s datetime module, it captures the present moment and formats it as YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS. This utility is particularly useful for time-stamping responses or answering user queries about the current date and time within the AI agent’s interaction flow. tools =def create_llm: if ANTHROPIC_API_KEY: return ChatAnthropicelse: class MockLLM: def invoke: last_message = messages.content if messages else "" if anyfor word in): import re numbers = re.findall\s\w]+', last_message) expr = numbersif numbers else "2+2" return AIMessage}, "id": "calc1"}]) elif anyfor word in): query = last_message.replace.replace.replace.stripif not query or len< 3: query = "python programming" return AIMessageelif anyfor word in): city = "New York" words = last_message.lower.splitfor i, word in enumerate: if word == 'in' and i + 1 < len: city = words.titlebreak return AIMessageelif anyfor word in): return AIMessageelif anyfor word in): text = last_message.replace.replace.stripif not text: text = "Sample text for analysis" return AIMessageelse: return AIMessagedef bind_tools: return self printreturn MockLLMllm = create_llmllm_with_tools = llm.bind_toolsWe initialize the language model that powers the AI agent. If a valid Anthropic API key is available, it uses the Claude 3 Haiku model for high-quality responses. Without an API key, a MockLLM is defined to simulate basic tool-routing behavior based on keyword matching, allowing the agent to function offline with limited capabilities. The bind_tools method links the defined tools to the model, enabling it to invoke them as needed. def agent_node-> Dict: """Main agent node that processes messages and decides on tool usage.""" messages = stateresponse = llm_with_tools.invokereturn {"messages":} def should_continue-> str: """Determine whether to continue with tool calls or end.""" last_message = stateif hasattrand last_message.tool_calls: return "tools" return END We define the agent’s core decision-making logic. The agent_node function handles incoming messages, invokes the language model, and returns the model’s response. The should_continue function then evaluates whether the model’s response includes tool calls. If so, it routes control to the tool execution node; otherwise, it directs the flow to end the interaction. These functions enable dynamic and conditional transitions within the agent’s workflow. def create_agent_graph: tool_node = ToolNodeworkflow = StateGraphworkflow.add_nodeworkflow.add_nodeworkflow.add_edgeworkflow.add_conditional_edgesworkflow.add_edgememory = MemorySaverapp = workflow.compilereturn app printagent = create_agent_graphprintWe construct the LangGraph-powered workflow that defines the AI agent’s operational structure. It initializes a ToolNode to handle tool executions and uses a StateGraph to organize the flow between agent decisions and tool usage. Nodes and edges are added to manage transitions: starting with the agent, conditionally routing to tools, and looping back as needed. A MemorySaver is integrated for persistent state tracking across turns. The graph is compiled into an executable application, enabling a structured, memory-aware multi-tool agent ready for deployment. def test_agent: """Test the agent with various queries.""" config = {"configurable": {"thread_id": "test-thread"}} test_queries =printfor i, query in enumerate: printprinttry: response = agent.invoke]}, config=config ) last_message = responseprintexcept Exception as e: print}\n") The test_agent function is a validation utility that ensures that the LangGraph agent responds correctly across different use cases. It runs predefined queries, arithmetic, web search, weather, time, and text analysis, and prints the agent’s responses. Using a consistent thread_id for configuration, it invokes the agent with each query. It neatly displays the results, helping developers verify tool integration and conversational logic before moving to interactive or production use. def chat_with_agent: """Interactive chat function.""" config = {"configurable": {"thread_id": "interactive-thread"}} printprintprintwhile True: try: user_input = input.stripif user_input.lowerin: printbreak elif user_input.lower== 'help': printprint?'") printprintprintprintprintcontinue elif not user_input: continue response = agent.invoke]}, config=config ) last_message = responseprintexcept KeyboardInterrupt: printbreak except Exception as e: print}\n") The chat_with_agent function provides an interactive command-line interface for real-time conversations with the LangGraph multi-tool agent. It supports natural language queries and recognizes commands like “help” for usage guidance and “quit” to exit. Each user input is processed through the agent, which dynamically selects and invokes appropriate response tools. The function enhances user engagement by simulating a conversational experience and showcasing the agent’s capabilities in handling various queries, from math and web search to weather, text analysis, and time retrieval. if __name__ == "__main__": test_agentprintprintprintchat_with_agentdef quick_demo: """Quick demonstration of agent capabilities.""" config = {"configurable": {"thread_id": "demo"}} demos =printfor category, query in demos: printtry: response = agent.invoke]}, config=config ) printexcept Exception as e: print}\n") printprintprintprintprintfor a quick demonstration") printfor interactive chat") printprintprintFinally, we orchestrate the execution of the LangGraph multi-tool agent. If the script is run directly, it initiates test_agentto validate functionality with sample queries, followed by launching the interactive chat_with_agentmode for real-time interaction. The quick_demofunction also briefly showcases the agent’s capabilities in math, search, and time queries. Clear usage instructions are printed at the end, guiding users on configuring the API key, running demonstrations, and interacting with the agent. This provides a smooth onboarding experience for users to explore and extend the agent’s functionality. In conclusion, this step-by-step tutorial gives valuable insights into building an effective multi-tool AI agent leveraging LangGraph and Claude’s generative capabilities. With straightforward explanations and hands-on demonstrations, the guide empowers users to integrate diverse utilities into a cohesive and interactive system. The agent’s flexibility in performing tasks, from complex calculations to dynamic information retrieval, showcases the versatility of modern AI development frameworks. Also, the inclusion of user-friendly functions for both testing and interactive chat enhances practical understanding, enabling immediate application in various contexts. Developers can confidently extend and customize their AI agents with this foundational knowledge. Check out the Notebook on GitHub. All credit for this research goes to the researchers of this project. Also, feel free to follow us on Twitter and don’t forget to join our 95k+ ML SubReddit and Subscribe to our Newsletter. Asif RazzaqWebsite |  + postsBioAsif Razzaq is the CEO of Marktechpost Media Inc.. As a visionary entrepreneur and engineer, Asif is committed to harnessing the potential of Artificial Intelligence for social good. His most recent endeavor is the launch of an Artificial Intelligence Media Platform, Marktechpost, which stands out for its in-depth coverage of machine learning and deep learning news that is both technically sound and easily understandable by a wide audience. The platform boasts of over 2 million monthly views, illustrating its popularity among audiences.Asif Razzaqhttps://www.marktechpost.com/author/6flvq/A Comprehensive Coding Guide to Crafting Advanced Round-Robin Multi-Agent Workflows with Microsoft AutoGenAsif Razzaqhttps://www.marktechpost.com/author/6flvq/Microsoft AI Introduces Magentic-UI: An Open-Source Agent Prototype that Works with People to Complete Complex Tasks that Require Multi-Step Planning and Browser UseAsif Razzaqhttps://www.marktechpost.com/author/6flvq/Anthropic Releases Claude Opus 4 and Claude Sonnet 4: A Technical Leap in Reasoning, Coding, and AI Agent DesignAsif Razzaqhttps://www.marktechpost.com/author/6flvq/Technology Innovation Institute TII Releases Falcon-H1: Hybrid Transformer-SSM Language Models for Scalable, Multilingual, and Long-Context Understanding #stepbystep #guide #build #customizable #multitool
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    Step-by-Step Guide to Build a Customizable Multi-Tool AI Agent with LangGraph and Claude for Dynamic Agent Creation
    In this comprehensive tutorial, we guide users through creating a powerful multi-tool AI agent using LangGraph and Claude, optimized for diverse tasks including mathematical computations, web searches, weather inquiries, text analysis, and real-time information retrieval. It begins by simplifying dependency installations to ensure effortless setup, even for beginners. Users are then introduced to structured implementations of specialized tools, such as a safe calculator, an efficient web-search utility leveraging DuckDuckGo, a mock weather information provider, a detailed text analyzer, and a time-fetching function. The tutorial also clearly delineates the integration of these tools within a sophisticated agent architecture built using LangGraph, illustrating practical usage through interactive examples and clear explanations, facilitating both beginners and advanced developers to deploy custom multi-functional AI agents rapidly. import subprocess import sys def install_packages(): packages = [ "langgraph", "langchain", "langchain-anthropic", "langchain-community", "requests", "python-dotenv", "duckduckgo-search" ] for package in packages: try: subprocess.check_call([sys.executable, "-m", "pip", "install", package, "-q"]) print(f"✓ Installed {package}") except subprocess.CalledProcessError: print(f"✗ Failed to install {package}") print("Installing required packages...") install_packages() print("Installation complete!\n") We automate the installation of essential Python packages required for building a LangGraph-based multi-tool AI agent. It leverages a subprocess to run pip commands silently and ensures each package, ranging from long-chain components to web search and environment handling tools, is installed successfully. This setup streamlines the environment preparation process, making the notebook portable and beginner-friendly. import os import json import math import requests from typing import Dict, List, Any, Annotated, TypedDict from datetime import datetime import operator from langchain_core.messages import BaseMessage, HumanMessage, AIMessage, ToolMessage from langchain_core.tools import tool from langchain_anthropic import ChatAnthropic from langgraph.graph import StateGraph, START, END from langgraph.prebuilt import ToolNode from langgraph.checkpoint.memory import MemorySaver from duckduckgo_search import DDGS We import all the necessary libraries and modules for constructing the multi-tool AI agent. It includes Python standard libraries such as os, json, math, and datetime for general-purpose functionality and external libraries like requests for HTTP calls and duckduckgo_search for implementing web search. The LangChain and LangGraph ecosystems bring in message types, tool decorators, state graph components, and checkpointing utilities, while ChatAnthropic enables integration with the Claude model for conversational intelligence. These imports form the foundational building blocks for defining tools, agent workflows, and interactions. os.environ["ANTHROPIC_API_KEY"] = "Use Your API Key Here" ANTHROPIC_API_KEY = os.getenv("ANTHROPIC_API_KEY") We set and retrieve the Anthropic API key required to authenticate and interact with Claude models. The os.environ line assigns your API key (which you should replace with a valid key), while os.getenv securely retrieves it for later use in model initialization. This approach ensures the key is accessible throughout the script without hardcoding it multiple times. from typing import TypedDict class AgentState(TypedDict): messages: Annotated[List[BaseMessage], operator.add] @tool def calculator(expression: str) -> str: """ Perform mathematical calculations. Supports basic arithmetic, trigonometry, and more. Args: expression: Mathematical expression as a string (e.g., "2 + 3 * 4", "sin(3.14159/2)") Returns: Result of the calculation as a string """ try: allowed_names = { 'abs': abs, 'round': round, 'min': min, 'max': max, 'sum': sum, 'pow': pow, 'sqrt': math.sqrt, 'sin': math.sin, 'cos': math.cos, 'tan': math.tan, 'log': math.log, 'log10': math.log10, 'exp': math.exp, 'pi': math.pi, 'e': math.e } expression = expression.replace('^', '**') result = eval(expression, {"__builtins__": {}}, allowed_names) return f"Result: {result}" except Exception as e: return f"Error in calculation: {str(e)}" We define the agent’s internal state and implement a robust calculator tool. The AgentState class uses TypedDict to structure agent memory, specifically tracking messages exchanged during the conversation. The calculator function, decorated with @tool to register it as an AI-usable utility, securely evaluates mathematical expressions. It allows for safe computation by limiting available functions to a predefined set from the math module and replacing common syntax like ^ with Python’s exponentiation operator. This ensures the tool can handle simple arithmetic and advanced functions like trigonometry or logarithms while preventing unsafe code execution. @tool def web_search(query: str, num_results: int = 3) -> str: """ Search the web for information using DuckDuckGo. Args: query: Search query string num_results: Number of results to return (default: 3, max: 10) Returns: Search results as formatted string """ try: num_results = min(max(num_results, 1), 10) with DDGS() as ddgs: results = list(ddgs.text(query, max_results=num_results)) if not results: return f"No search results found for: {query}" formatted_results = f"Search results for '{query}':\n\n" for i, result in enumerate(results, 1): formatted_results += f"{i}. **{result['title']}**\n" formatted_results += f" {result['body']}\n" formatted_results += f" Source: {result['href']}\n\n" return formatted_results except Exception as e: return f"Error performing web search: {str(e)}" We define a web_search tool that enables the agent to fetch real-time information from the internet using the DuckDuckGo Search API via the duckduckgo_search Python package. The tool accepts a search query and an optional num_results parameter, ensuring that the number of results returned is between 1 and 10. It opens a DuckDuckGo search session, retrieves the results, and formats them neatly for user-friendly display. If no results are found or an error occurs, the function handles it gracefully by returning an informative message. This tool equips the agent with real-time search capabilities, enhancing responsiveness and utility. @tool def weather_info(city: str) -> str: """ Get current weather information for a city using OpenWeatherMap API. Note: This is a mock implementation for demo purposes. Args: city: Name of the city Returns: Weather information as a string """ mock_weather = { "new york": {"temp": 22, "condition": "Partly Cloudy", "humidity": 65}, "london": {"temp": 15, "condition": "Rainy", "humidity": 80}, "tokyo": {"temp": 28, "condition": "Sunny", "humidity": 70}, "paris": {"temp": 18, "condition": "Overcast", "humidity": 75} } city_lower = city.lower() if city_lower in mock_weather: weather = mock_weather[city_lower] return f"Weather in {city}:\n" \ f"Temperature: {weather['temp']}°C\n" \ f"Condition: {weather['condition']}\n" \ f"Humidity: {weather['humidity']}%" else: return f"Weather data not available for {city}. (This is a demo with limited cities: New York, London, Tokyo, Paris)" We define a weather_info tool that simulates retrieving current weather data for a given city. While it does not connect to a live weather API, it uses a predefined dictionary of mock data for major cities like New York, London, Tokyo, and Paris. Upon receiving a city name, the function normalizes it to lowercase and checks for its presence in the mock dataset. It returns temperature, weather condition, and humidity in a readable format if found. Otherwise, it notifies the user that weather data is unavailable. This tool serves as a placeholder and can later be upgraded to fetch live data from an actual weather API. @tool def text_analyzer(text: str) -> str: """ Analyze text and provide statistics like word count, character count, etc. Args: text: Text to analyze Returns: Text analysis results """ if not text.strip(): return "Please provide text to analyze." words = text.split() sentences = text.split('.') + text.split('!') + text.split('?') sentences = [s.strip() for s in sentences if s.strip()] analysis = f"Text Analysis Results:\n" analysis += f"• Characters (with spaces): {len(text)}\n" analysis += f"• Characters (without spaces): {len(text.replace(' ', ''))}\n" analysis += f"• Words: {len(words)}\n" analysis += f"• Sentences: {len(sentences)}\n" analysis += f"• Average words per sentence: {len(words) / max(len(sentences), 1):.1f}\n" analysis += f"• Most common word: {max(set(words), key=words.count) if words else 'N/A'}" return analysis The text_analyzer tool provides a detailed statistical analysis of a given text input. It calculates metrics such as character count (with and without spaces), word count, sentence count, and average words per sentence, and it identifies the most frequently occurring word. The tool handles empty input gracefully by prompting the user to provide valid text. It uses simple string operations and Python’s set and max functions to extract meaningful insights. It is a valuable utility for language analysis or content quality checks in the AI agent’s toolkit. @tool def current_time() -> str: """ Get the current date and time. Returns: Current date and time as a formatted string """ now = datetime.now() return f"Current date and time: {now.strftime('%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S')}" The current_time tool provides a straightforward way to retrieve the current system date and time in a human-readable format. Using Python’s datetime module, it captures the present moment and formats it as YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM:SS. This utility is particularly useful for time-stamping responses or answering user queries about the current date and time within the AI agent’s interaction flow. tools = [calculator, web_search, weather_info, text_analyzer, current_time] def create_llm(): if ANTHROPIC_API_KEY: return ChatAnthropic( model="claude-3-haiku-20240307", temperature=0.1, max_tokens=1024 ) else: class MockLLM: def invoke(self, messages): last_message = messages[-1].content if messages else "" if any(word in last_message.lower() for word in ['calculate', 'math', '+', '-', '*', '/', 'sqrt', 'sin', 'cos']): import re numbers = re.findall(r'[\d\+\-\*/\.\(\)\s\w]+', last_message) expr = numbers[0] if numbers else "2+2" return AIMessage(content="I'll help you with that calculation.", tool_calls=[{"name": "calculator", "args": {"expression": expr.strip()}, "id": "calc1"}]) elif any(word in last_message.lower() for word in ['search', 'find', 'look up', 'information about']): query = last_message.replace('search for', '').replace('find', '').replace('look up', '').strip() if not query or len(query) < 3: query = "python programming" return AIMessage(content="I'll search for that information.", tool_calls=[{"name": "web_search", "args": {"query": query}, "id": "search1"}]) elif any(word in last_message.lower() for word in ['weather', 'temperature']): city = "New York" words = last_message.lower().split() for i, word in enumerate(words): if word == 'in' and i + 1 < len(words): city = words[i + 1].title() break return AIMessage(content="I'll get the weather information.", tool_calls=[{"name": "weather_info", "args": {"city": city}, "id": "weather1"}]) elif any(word in last_message.lower() for word in ['time', 'date']): return AIMessage(content="I'll get the current time.", tool_calls=[{"name": "current_time", "args": {}, "id": "time1"}]) elif any(word in last_message.lower() for word in ['analyze', 'analysis']): text = last_message.replace('analyze this text:', '').replace('analyze', '').strip() if not text: text = "Sample text for analysis" return AIMessage(content="I'll analyze that text for you.", tool_calls=[{"name": "text_analyzer", "args": {"text": text}, "id": "analyze1"}]) else: return AIMessage(content="Hello! I'm a multi-tool agent powered by Claude. I can help with:\n• Mathematical calculations\n• Web searches\n• Weather information\n• Text analysis\n• Current time/date\n\nWhat would you like me to help you with?") def bind_tools(self, tools): return self print("⚠️ Note: Using mock LLM for demo. Add your ANTHROPIC_API_KEY for full functionality.") return MockLLM() llm = create_llm() llm_with_tools = llm.bind_tools(tools) We initialize the language model that powers the AI agent. If a valid Anthropic API key is available, it uses the Claude 3 Haiku model for high-quality responses. Without an API key, a MockLLM is defined to simulate basic tool-routing behavior based on keyword matching, allowing the agent to function offline with limited capabilities. The bind_tools method links the defined tools to the model, enabling it to invoke them as needed. def agent_node(state: AgentState) -> Dict[str, Any]: """Main agent node that processes messages and decides on tool usage.""" messages = state["messages"] response = llm_with_tools.invoke(messages) return {"messages": [response]} def should_continue(state: AgentState) -> str: """Determine whether to continue with tool calls or end.""" last_message = state["messages"][-1] if hasattr(last_message, 'tool_calls') and last_message.tool_calls: return "tools" return END We define the agent’s core decision-making logic. The agent_node function handles incoming messages, invokes the language model (with tools), and returns the model’s response. The should_continue function then evaluates whether the model’s response includes tool calls. If so, it routes control to the tool execution node; otherwise, it directs the flow to end the interaction. These functions enable dynamic and conditional transitions within the agent’s workflow. def create_agent_graph(): tool_node = ToolNode(tools) workflow = StateGraph(AgentState) workflow.add_node("agent", agent_node) workflow.add_node("tools", tool_node) workflow.add_edge(START, "agent") workflow.add_conditional_edges("agent", should_continue, {"tools": "tools", END: END}) workflow.add_edge("tools", "agent") memory = MemorySaver() app = workflow.compile(checkpointer=memory) return app print("Creating LangGraph Multi-Tool Agent...") agent = create_agent_graph() print("✓ Agent created successfully!\n") We construct the LangGraph-powered workflow that defines the AI agent’s operational structure. It initializes a ToolNode to handle tool executions and uses a StateGraph to organize the flow between agent decisions and tool usage. Nodes and edges are added to manage transitions: starting with the agent, conditionally routing to tools, and looping back as needed. A MemorySaver is integrated for persistent state tracking across turns. The graph is compiled into an executable application (app), enabling a structured, memory-aware multi-tool agent ready for deployment. def test_agent(): """Test the agent with various queries.""" config = {"configurable": {"thread_id": "test-thread"}} test_queries = [ "What's 15 * 7 + 23?", "Search for information about Python programming", "What's the weather like in Tokyo?", "What time is it?", "Analyze this text: 'LangGraph is an amazing framework for building AI agents.'" ] print("🧪 Testing the agent with sample queries...\n") for i, query in enumerate(test_queries, 1): print(f"Query {i}: {query}") print("-" * 50) try: response = agent.invoke( {"messages": [HumanMessage(content=query)]}, config=config ) last_message = response["messages"][-1] print(f"Response: {last_message.content}\n") except Exception as e: print(f"Error: {str(e)}\n") The test_agent function is a validation utility that ensures that the LangGraph agent responds correctly across different use cases. It runs predefined queries, arithmetic, web search, weather, time, and text analysis, and prints the agent’s responses. Using a consistent thread_id for configuration, it invokes the agent with each query. It neatly displays the results, helping developers verify tool integration and conversational logic before moving to interactive or production use. def chat_with_agent(): """Interactive chat function.""" config = {"configurable": {"thread_id": "interactive-thread"}} print("🤖 Multi-Tool Agent Chat") print("Available tools: Calculator, Web Search, Weather Info, Text Analyzer, Current Time") print("Type 'quit' to exit, 'help' for available commands\n") while True: try: user_input = input("You: ").strip() if user_input.lower() in ['quit', 'exit', 'q']: print("Goodbye!") break elif user_input.lower() == 'help': print("\nAvailable commands:") print("• Calculator: 'Calculate 15 * 7 + 23' or 'What's sin(pi/2)?'") print("• Web Search: 'Search for Python tutorials' or 'Find information about AI'") print("• Weather: 'Weather in Tokyo' or 'What's the temperature in London?'") print("• Text Analysis: 'Analyze this text: [your text]'") print("• Current Time: 'What time is it?' or 'Current date'") print("• quit: Exit the chat\n") continue elif not user_input: continue response = agent.invoke( {"messages": [HumanMessage(content=user_input)]}, config=config ) last_message = response["messages"][-1] print(f"Agent: {last_message.content}\n") except KeyboardInterrupt: print("\nGoodbye!") break except Exception as e: print(f"Error: {str(e)}\n") The chat_with_agent function provides an interactive command-line interface for real-time conversations with the LangGraph multi-tool agent. It supports natural language queries and recognizes commands like “help” for usage guidance and “quit” to exit. Each user input is processed through the agent, which dynamically selects and invokes appropriate response tools. The function enhances user engagement by simulating a conversational experience and showcasing the agent’s capabilities in handling various queries, from math and web search to weather, text analysis, and time retrieval. if __name__ == "__main__": test_agent() print("=" * 60) print("🎉 LangGraph Multi-Tool Agent is ready!") print("=" * 60) chat_with_agent() def quick_demo(): """Quick demonstration of agent capabilities.""" config = {"configurable": {"thread_id": "demo"}} demos = [ ("Math", "Calculate the square root of 144 plus 5 times 3"), ("Search", "Find recent news about artificial intelligence"), ("Time", "What's the current date and time?") ] print("🚀 Quick Demo of Agent Capabilities\n") for category, query in demos: print(f"[{category}] Query: {query}") try: response = agent.invoke( {"messages": [HumanMessage(content=query)]}, config=config ) print(f"Response: {response['messages'][-1].content}\n") except Exception as e: print(f"Error: {str(e)}\n") print("\n" + "="*60) print("🔧 Usage Instructions:") print("1. Add your ANTHROPIC_API_KEY to use Claude model") print(" os.environ['ANTHROPIC_API_KEY'] = 'your-anthropic-api-key'") print("2. Run quick_demo() for a quick demonstration") print("3. Run chat_with_agent() for interactive chat") print("4. The agent supports: calculations, web search, weather, text analysis, and time") print("5. Example: 'Calculate 15*7+23' or 'Search for Python tutorials'") print("="*60) Finally, we orchestrate the execution of the LangGraph multi-tool agent. If the script is run directly, it initiates test_agent() to validate functionality with sample queries, followed by launching the interactive chat_with_agent() mode for real-time interaction. The quick_demo() function also briefly showcases the agent’s capabilities in math, search, and time queries. Clear usage instructions are printed at the end, guiding users on configuring the API key, running demonstrations, and interacting with the agent. This provides a smooth onboarding experience for users to explore and extend the agent’s functionality. In conclusion, this step-by-step tutorial gives valuable insights into building an effective multi-tool AI agent leveraging LangGraph and Claude’s generative capabilities. With straightforward explanations and hands-on demonstrations, the guide empowers users to integrate diverse utilities into a cohesive and interactive system. The agent’s flexibility in performing tasks, from complex calculations to dynamic information retrieval, showcases the versatility of modern AI development frameworks. Also, the inclusion of user-friendly functions for both testing and interactive chat enhances practical understanding, enabling immediate application in various contexts. Developers can confidently extend and customize their AI agents with this foundational knowledge. Check out the Notebook on GitHub. All credit for this research goes to the researchers of this project. Also, feel free to follow us on Twitter and don’t forget to join our 95k+ ML SubReddit and Subscribe to our Newsletter. Asif RazzaqWebsite |  + postsBioAsif Razzaq is the CEO of Marktechpost Media Inc.. As a visionary entrepreneur and engineer, Asif is committed to harnessing the potential of Artificial Intelligence for social good. His most recent endeavor is the launch of an Artificial Intelligence Media Platform, Marktechpost, which stands out for its in-depth coverage of machine learning and deep learning news that is both technically sound and easily understandable by a wide audience. The platform boasts of over 2 million monthly views, illustrating its popularity among audiences.Asif Razzaqhttps://www.marktechpost.com/author/6flvq/A Comprehensive Coding Guide to Crafting Advanced Round-Robin Multi-Agent Workflows with Microsoft AutoGenAsif Razzaqhttps://www.marktechpost.com/author/6flvq/Microsoft AI Introduces Magentic-UI: An Open-Source Agent Prototype that Works with People to Complete Complex Tasks that Require Multi-Step Planning and Browser UseAsif Razzaqhttps://www.marktechpost.com/author/6flvq/Anthropic Releases Claude Opus 4 and Claude Sonnet 4: A Technical Leap in Reasoning, Coding, and AI Agent DesignAsif Razzaqhttps://www.marktechpost.com/author/6flvq/Technology Innovation Institute TII Releases Falcon-H1: Hybrid Transformer-SSM Language Models for Scalable, Multilingual, and Long-Context Understanding
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  • Noctua Has Competition: HAVN Performance Fans, BF360 Case, & Engineering Data

    Cases News Noctua Has Competition: HAVN Performance Fans, BF360 Case, & Engineering DataMay 23, 2025Last Updated: 2025-05-23We take an early look at HAVN’s new BF360 case and the company’s new unique fans at Computex 2025The HighlightsFor its new products, HAVN has put a heavy emphasis on thermal performance and acousticsHAVN’s upcoming BF360 case brings in new fans in the 180mm, 140mm, and 120mm categoriesHAVN’s 180mm fan uses a 40mm thick frame and special shaping on the hub for what HAVN claims will improve pressure performance across the hub Visit our Patreon page to contribute a few dollars toward this website's operationAdditionally, when you purchase through links to retailers on our site, we may earn a small affiliate commission.We visited HAVN’s lab in Taiwan during our Computex 2025 trip. We saw that they were experimenting with a 52mm thick fan for a case it was showing off. The company didn’t end up using that for its case and instead used a new fan design that we’ll discuss in this article.Editor's note: This was originally published on May 17, 2025 as a video. This content has been adapted to written format for this article and is unchanged from the original publication.CreditsHost, WritingSteve BurkeCamera, EditingVitalii MakhnovetsMike GaglioneWriting, Web EditingJimmy ThangDuring our visit, the company showed off its new BF360 case, which follows up their HS 420.  Taking a closer look at the company’s new fan design, you can see some careful shaping to the fan’s hub, which is supposed to help with guiding air flow. We’ll have to see how it performs in our testing, but the idea is taking a thicker fan approach and thickening it even more. The company ended up using a 40mm-thick fan, which should help with pressure.    The company also uses 2x180mm fans mounted to the front of the case.  While we were there, HAVN prepared some CFD simulations for the flow and some simulations for mechanical stresses, on the panel for example, which is pretty interesting.Taking a look at the BF360, the front panel pops out with a tug as it uses magnets to attach itself to the front of the case and has 3 plastic feet that help it snap in at the bottom. The interior of the case’s front panel has a removable fan tray. Its design is somewhat typical but refined from what we’ve seen. HAVN has done a lot of iterations on it. The top panel pulls off and its design is familiar to the HS 420 with its structural design. Once you remove the top panel, it exposes the case’s top fan/radiatory tray, which has rubber bumpers and a slide mechanism that lets you pull it out of the case, providing full access to the top of the chassis and should help with ease of installation. A lot of the steel on the case is either .8mm thick and there’s some that’s 1.0mm, which is thick by today’s standards. Taking a look at the backside of the case, we can see that it has marked cable management pathways, much like the HAVN HS 420. This was kind of a nice thing for brand new system builders. Whereas the HS 420 used stickers, the BF360 incorporates it into the molding. Our understanding is that they may refine its design to try and get more light reflection so it’s easier to see. This is a nice attention to detail that adds to the ease of installation. HAVN learned from the HS 420 on the 3 and ½-inch drive support and improved its implementation. There are 2 bays on the back side of the case for those drives and they can be removed. HAVN also changed how it handles the grommets with the case. The string-like material in between is the same but there’s now a little rubber tab that helps to prevent it from popping out by accident once it’s filled with cables. The point here is that HAVN is trying to learn from what they’ve done with the HS 420 and to refine their designs. Taking a look at the BF360’s front panel, it’s supposed to look like stone, but is made of plastic as stone would be extremely heavy. Behind the front panel in the unit we saw are 2x180mm fans. HAVN has shoved a piece of steel at the top, which is supposed to prevent recirculation. This was a huge issue in old BitFenix cases, where due to the company’s design, it would recirculate hot air back into its fans. This design can improve performance in big ways.HAVN tells us that the best setup for the BF360 is to have the top front fan be intake and the top back fan be exhaust, providing you’re using 180mm fans on the top. This matches our testing for other cases in the past. We’ve also found that if you’re populated the top slots, doing intake in front of an air cooler works better because otherwise air gets in the front and would get stolen by an exhaust fan out of the top. The case we looked at had 4x180mm fansand 1x140mm in the rear.   HAVN tried different types of power supply shroud designs. One had an angled scoop to bring in air from the front bottom 180mm fan. One design had what we’re calling a “toilet-bowl” design, but that ultimately didn’t go through. The next design we looked at featured a more cylindrical/conical design. We asked one of the company’s thermal engineers why that design didn’t work better as it looks like it would project air towards the GPU, which would be a hot spot, and the rep told us that going with a wider design ended up performing thermally better. HAVN provided us some numbers for that, which we’ll take a look at below, but we’ll eventually do our own testing if we can get an early sample. Taking a look at the first mock-up of the case, we can see some rails for the front fans. This design did not progress into the final. It uses a rail system and we’ve seen it in other cases. Corsair has implemented it and has a trademark for it which they call the “InfiniRail.”Looking at the second mock-up, the company moved to vertical rails coupled with horizontal slats. HAVN ended up ditching that design altogether and moved to a tray design, which is sort of moving to a tried-and-true approach. The company incorporated another change where they’ve stamped and folded the tooling. Then we took a look at a design that was closer to final, which has its full corner covered. HAVN showed us 3 different prototypes for the front panel of the case. The first one we looked at featured a wood panel design, which we’ve seen on a lot of cases lately. Wood has certain manufacturing challenges to consider. The white panel you see above is made of aluminum, which is very expensive.The last thing that HAVN is working on that they showed off are fans. There’s been a lot of fan development in the last few years. One of the big marketing phrases you hear a lot these days is LCP, which is something we talked a lot about at the last Computex. One of the benefits of LCP fansis that you can get the blades way closer to the interior of the frame. The downside is that it’s incredibly expensive. We have an interview with Noctua’s Jakob Dellinger from 2 years ago that delves into how the company wanted to avoid using LCP for a long time but determined it was necessary to get the performance they wanted. HAVN isn’t using LCP but has designed a fan that has some “teeth” cut out on its blades, which is something we’ve seen before. The company has also shaped its fan hub to be able to scoop air in more. HAVN tells us that having the hub protrude out like a little mountain would offer the best performance but this presents clearance/compatibility issues, especially if you want to put a radiator up against it. Taking a look at the 180mm fan, there’s a 2.0mm distance from the blade to the frame of the fan. We asked if HAVN tried to get it closer and were provided with a lot of data. The company showed us 3 revisions. 1 had a 1.8mm spacing, another had 2.0mm of spacing, and the third had 2.2mm. What they ended up seeing for pressure in mmH2O, is that a 2.0mm spacing ran at 2.19. The 1.8mm fan ran at 2.23, which is an improvement. The CFMfor both was nearly indistinguishable at around 165. The 2.2mm spacing, however, had a big drop off, which is a design they didn’t go with. It had a 2.21 mmH2O pressure, which is more or less within error of the others, but the 159.9 is where that drop off occurs in the CFM. Comparing the 1.8 vs the 2.0mm spacings, they are basically hitting diminishing returns. Seeing this information is nice. We imagine that the benefits here weren’t worth the yields and costs because getting the blades closer to the inner frame could lead to a bad yield during manufacturing or might have the blades expand and hit the frame as it ages with time. This is what happened with a lot of Enermax fans in the past.  Grab a GN15 Large Anti-Static Modmat to celebrate our 15th Anniversary and for a high-quality PC building work surface. The Modmat features useful PC building diagrams and is anti-static conductive. Purchases directly fund our work!Now we’re going to go over HAVN’s first-part numbers, but we plan to do our own performance review of the case and fans once they’re available. First-party data should be looked at with some reasonable care. Thermal comparisons should only be made against their own results here, not against ours, as the benches are different. The flat, typical shroud style was comparable to the rectangular type in result, with the rectangular type slightly better. We think this will see a larger impact in our testing, but we'd need the three types to know for sure. The important comparison is against the cylindrical type, where HAVN saw worse results by a measurable amount. Performance worsened by 1-2 degrees on the CPU and about 2 degrees on the GPU. That's a large GPU temperature increase.In their next test slide, HAVN tested various fan configurations with the flat shroud. The results were mostly as expected: CPU performance is hurt drastically by having only a bottom intake fan, to no surprise.More interestingly, the ramp type shroud makes comparisons in "B" with a fan level with the top of it and "A" with a fan sunken to the floor of the ramp. The sunken approach resulted in marginally worse CPU thermals in A as compared to B, with GPU thermals mostly unchanged.This slide shows CFD simulation and flow mapping for ramp angles at 120 and 135 degrees. HAVN has drawn a few highlights around areas of re-circulation or heat accumulation, particularly marked at "1" where the 120-degree ramp angle shows worse areas of heat build-up. HAVN tested this in 5-degree increments from 120 to 140, finding that 135 was a good balance when noise normalized.In the above image, they show the fan spacing again, with a 20mm height increase benefiting performance.HAVN didn't shy away from competitive comparisons. The company says its BF 360 with its final front panel, shown above in light blue, had competitive performance against the H6. They also suggest significant reductions in flow resistanceversus the Lancool 3, with the HS 420 also making some appearances here.HAVN began studying its slot spacing and porosity of the ventilation slots in the panels next. The company found that a ratio of length divided by depth being ideally about equal to 6 was optimal for minimizing flow resistance, with the only downside being potential structural challenges. These charts show their flow performance with different slot sizes.As shown in this set of images, the point is that HAVN is really mocking up a ton of different styles of panels, from the shrouds to the slot spacing, to try and determine the thermal performance and optimize for it. This is a major progression for them. It’s a lot of work to do all of this, which is cool to see. Of course, we have to test the product to see how it came together, but the CFM performance of type 4, as they called it, was the best, but we're ultimately looking at tiny differences here. Still, all of those small differences across the case will add up in theory.This image was cool: After all of this thermal testing, HAVN next did mechanical stress simulation for torsional forces against the panel, which allowed them to dial-in the thickness and makeup of the plastics.That continued in this image, where the so-called "type 4" gets another highlight.HAVN highlighted "Design C" for having a 0.8mm metal thickness with the chosen hole sizing.By shaping the fan hub itself to guide flow, HAVN claims that it can better maintain pressure across the hub of the fan and along the inner wall of the blades. This is the area of worst performance in every fan, so optimizing here can also help minimize dead zones behind the hub. HAVN says that the molded flow guide in the hub benefited its noise significantly. The company claims its flow rate also improved significantly for the guided hub.The image above is really cool. Referencing whale-fin evolution, HAVN used tooth-like leading edges on the fan to improve its thermal performance. We've seen this plenty of times in the past, but it never seems to stick around and we're not sure why. In this simulation though, HAVN suggests that the air stream is more uniform along the wavy blade design.Using a 30% glass fiber composite, HAVN saw performance with the new design slightly improve in CFM but largely improve in static pressure, going from 2.21 to 2.40 mmH2O.There's a ton more that HAVN did. The P/Q chart above shows the mock-up performance, including the stall region centrally. We'll save all this discussion for the review, though.HAVN had about 41 pages of this technical presentation, which is actually greatly appreciated. A lot of what remains will be covered in our review, so we'll leave that for now.The bearings are also interesting to talk about. These are called FDBs, depending on how you want to define that. We looked at one that was designed for the company’s 180mm fan. It was a 15mm-tall FDB.  One of the things with fans, in terms of the support, is how the fan’s rod seats into the bearing. As we’re told, the longer the bearing is, the more it will help with the wobble of the blades. Internally looking at the 15mm-tall bearing for the 180mm fan, you can see 3 grooved channels. In our bearings-factory tour, we learned that the grooves are part of the mechanism that allows the fluid to circulate to keep that pressure even across the bearing. That’s supposed to be what's special here but we don’t test bearings individually, but the idea is that 3 channels are supposed to help with the stability of the fluids across the bearing. For the 120mm fans, HAVN is going for roughly a 12mm tall bearing. The company claims that most are between 9-11mm tall for 120mm fans. HAVN allowed us to look at the company’s thermal chamber. There are pros and cons to HAVN’s solution. The pro is that it’s supposed to help control the thermal environment as it circulates the air. The downside to the chamber is that we found it can influence the results, though it depends on the chamber. We found that for our testing specifically, having a larger, open-room environment works better. It is very environment-specific. The company also had a flow-rate tester, which is similar to ours, that can do PQ charts, which the company used to test its new fans. It has a throttle control and a laser tachometer, which provides a reading of the speed of the fan. On one side of the flow-rate tester, there are tubes for the counter blower, which our system also has. Their flow-rate tester also has an air compressor, which is used for actuating some of the nozzles inside the system. We also saw that their flow-rate tester also came with an inexpensive desktop OEM computer.HAVN also has an acoustic chamber, which has a pass-through on the outside coupled with a noise meter, which collects noise levels. One thing we liked seeing once we looked inside the chamber is that we saw a mechanical rigging for the fan, which allows it to be free flowing. They put their microphone in the corner, which we used to do when we had a chamber of a similar size. Putting the mic here allows you to maximize the distance of the chamber by going diagonal, providing maybe a half a meter of space. They also have a foam floor as well, which makes it closer to an anechoic chamber as opposed to something like our hemi-anechoic chamber. Grab a GN Tear-Down Toolkit to support our AD-FREE reviews and IN-DEPTH testing while also getting a high-quality, highly portable 10-piece toolkit that was custom designed for use with video cards for repasting and water block installation. Includes a portable roll bag, hook hangers for pegboards, a storage compartment, and instructional GPU disassembly cards.HAVN is targeting a launch around September for its new products at which point we aim to run our own benchmarks to see how it all performs.
    #noctua #has #competition #havn #performance
    Noctua Has Competition: HAVN Performance Fans, BF360 Case, & Engineering Data
    Cases News Noctua Has Competition: HAVN Performance Fans, BF360 Case, & Engineering DataMay 23, 2025Last Updated: 2025-05-23We take an early look at HAVN’s new BF360 case and the company’s new unique fans at Computex 2025The HighlightsFor its new products, HAVN has put a heavy emphasis on thermal performance and acousticsHAVN’s upcoming BF360 case brings in new fans in the 180mm, 140mm, and 120mm categoriesHAVN’s 180mm fan uses a 40mm thick frame and special shaping on the hub for what HAVN claims will improve pressure performance across the hub Visit our Patreon page to contribute a few dollars toward this website's operationAdditionally, when you purchase through links to retailers on our site, we may earn a small affiliate commission.We visited HAVN’s lab in Taiwan during our Computex 2025 trip. We saw that they were experimenting with a 52mm thick fan for a case it was showing off. The company didn’t end up using that for its case and instead used a new fan design that we’ll discuss in this article.Editor's note: This was originally published on May 17, 2025 as a video. This content has been adapted to written format for this article and is unchanged from the original publication.CreditsHost, WritingSteve BurkeCamera, EditingVitalii MakhnovetsMike GaglioneWriting, Web EditingJimmy ThangDuring our visit, the company showed off its new BF360 case, which follows up their HS 420.  Taking a closer look at the company’s new fan design, you can see some careful shaping to the fan’s hub, which is supposed to help with guiding air flow. We’ll have to see how it performs in our testing, but the idea is taking a thicker fan approach and thickening it even more. The company ended up using a 40mm-thick fan, which should help with pressure.    The company also uses 2x180mm fans mounted to the front of the case.  While we were there, HAVN prepared some CFD simulations for the flow and some simulations for mechanical stresses, on the panel for example, which is pretty interesting.Taking a look at the BF360, the front panel pops out with a tug as it uses magnets to attach itself to the front of the case and has 3 plastic feet that help it snap in at the bottom. The interior of the case’s front panel has a removable fan tray. Its design is somewhat typical but refined from what we’ve seen. HAVN has done a lot of iterations on it. The top panel pulls off and its design is familiar to the HS 420 with its structural design. Once you remove the top panel, it exposes the case’s top fan/radiatory tray, which has rubber bumpers and a slide mechanism that lets you pull it out of the case, providing full access to the top of the chassis and should help with ease of installation. A lot of the steel on the case is either .8mm thick and there’s some that’s 1.0mm, which is thick by today’s standards. Taking a look at the backside of the case, we can see that it has marked cable management pathways, much like the HAVN HS 420. This was kind of a nice thing for brand new system builders. Whereas the HS 420 used stickers, the BF360 incorporates it into the molding. Our understanding is that they may refine its design to try and get more light reflection so it’s easier to see. This is a nice attention to detail that adds to the ease of installation. HAVN learned from the HS 420 on the 3 and ½-inch drive support and improved its implementation. There are 2 bays on the back side of the case for those drives and they can be removed. HAVN also changed how it handles the grommets with the case. The string-like material in between is the same but there’s now a little rubber tab that helps to prevent it from popping out by accident once it’s filled with cables. The point here is that HAVN is trying to learn from what they’ve done with the HS 420 and to refine their designs. Taking a look at the BF360’s front panel, it’s supposed to look like stone, but is made of plastic as stone would be extremely heavy. Behind the front panel in the unit we saw are 2x180mm fans. HAVN has shoved a piece of steel at the top, which is supposed to prevent recirculation. This was a huge issue in old BitFenix cases, where due to the company’s design, it would recirculate hot air back into its fans. This design can improve performance in big ways.HAVN tells us that the best setup for the BF360 is to have the top front fan be intake and the top back fan be exhaust, providing you’re using 180mm fans on the top. This matches our testing for other cases in the past. We’ve also found that if you’re populated the top slots, doing intake in front of an air cooler works better because otherwise air gets in the front and would get stolen by an exhaust fan out of the top. The case we looked at had 4x180mm fansand 1x140mm in the rear.   HAVN tried different types of power supply shroud designs. One had an angled scoop to bring in air from the front bottom 180mm fan. One design had what we’re calling a “toilet-bowl” design, but that ultimately didn’t go through. The next design we looked at featured a more cylindrical/conical design. We asked one of the company’s thermal engineers why that design didn’t work better as it looks like it would project air towards the GPU, which would be a hot spot, and the rep told us that going with a wider design ended up performing thermally better. HAVN provided us some numbers for that, which we’ll take a look at below, but we’ll eventually do our own testing if we can get an early sample. Taking a look at the first mock-up of the case, we can see some rails for the front fans. This design did not progress into the final. It uses a rail system and we’ve seen it in other cases. Corsair has implemented it and has a trademark for it which they call the “InfiniRail.”Looking at the second mock-up, the company moved to vertical rails coupled with horizontal slats. HAVN ended up ditching that design altogether and moved to a tray design, which is sort of moving to a tried-and-true approach. The company incorporated another change where they’ve stamped and folded the tooling. Then we took a look at a design that was closer to final, which has its full corner covered. HAVN showed us 3 different prototypes for the front panel of the case. The first one we looked at featured a wood panel design, which we’ve seen on a lot of cases lately. Wood has certain manufacturing challenges to consider. The white panel you see above is made of aluminum, which is very expensive.The last thing that HAVN is working on that they showed off are fans. There’s been a lot of fan development in the last few years. One of the big marketing phrases you hear a lot these days is LCP, which is something we talked a lot about at the last Computex. One of the benefits of LCP fansis that you can get the blades way closer to the interior of the frame. The downside is that it’s incredibly expensive. We have an interview with Noctua’s Jakob Dellinger from 2 years ago that delves into how the company wanted to avoid using LCP for a long time but determined it was necessary to get the performance they wanted. HAVN isn’t using LCP but has designed a fan that has some “teeth” cut out on its blades, which is something we’ve seen before. The company has also shaped its fan hub to be able to scoop air in more. HAVN tells us that having the hub protrude out like a little mountain would offer the best performance but this presents clearance/compatibility issues, especially if you want to put a radiator up against it. Taking a look at the 180mm fan, there’s a 2.0mm distance from the blade to the frame of the fan. We asked if HAVN tried to get it closer and were provided with a lot of data. The company showed us 3 revisions. 1 had a 1.8mm spacing, another had 2.0mm of spacing, and the third had 2.2mm. What they ended up seeing for pressure in mmH2O, is that a 2.0mm spacing ran at 2.19. The 1.8mm fan ran at 2.23, which is an improvement. The CFMfor both was nearly indistinguishable at around 165. The 2.2mm spacing, however, had a big drop off, which is a design they didn’t go with. It had a 2.21 mmH2O pressure, which is more or less within error of the others, but the 159.9 is where that drop off occurs in the CFM. Comparing the 1.8 vs the 2.0mm spacings, they are basically hitting diminishing returns. Seeing this information is nice. We imagine that the benefits here weren’t worth the yields and costs because getting the blades closer to the inner frame could lead to a bad yield during manufacturing or might have the blades expand and hit the frame as it ages with time. This is what happened with a lot of Enermax fans in the past.  Grab a GN15 Large Anti-Static Modmat to celebrate our 15th Anniversary and for a high-quality PC building work surface. The Modmat features useful PC building diagrams and is anti-static conductive. Purchases directly fund our work!Now we’re going to go over HAVN’s first-part numbers, but we plan to do our own performance review of the case and fans once they’re available. First-party data should be looked at with some reasonable care. Thermal comparisons should only be made against their own results here, not against ours, as the benches are different. The flat, typical shroud style was comparable to the rectangular type in result, with the rectangular type slightly better. We think this will see a larger impact in our testing, but we'd need the three types to know for sure. The important comparison is against the cylindrical type, where HAVN saw worse results by a measurable amount. Performance worsened by 1-2 degrees on the CPU and about 2 degrees on the GPU. That's a large GPU temperature increase.In their next test slide, HAVN tested various fan configurations with the flat shroud. The results were mostly as expected: CPU performance is hurt drastically by having only a bottom intake fan, to no surprise.More interestingly, the ramp type shroud makes comparisons in "B" with a fan level with the top of it and "A" with a fan sunken to the floor of the ramp. The sunken approach resulted in marginally worse CPU thermals in A as compared to B, with GPU thermals mostly unchanged.This slide shows CFD simulation and flow mapping for ramp angles at 120 and 135 degrees. HAVN has drawn a few highlights around areas of re-circulation or heat accumulation, particularly marked at "1" where the 120-degree ramp angle shows worse areas of heat build-up. HAVN tested this in 5-degree increments from 120 to 140, finding that 135 was a good balance when noise normalized.In the above image, they show the fan spacing again, with a 20mm height increase benefiting performance.HAVN didn't shy away from competitive comparisons. The company says its BF 360 with its final front panel, shown above in light blue, had competitive performance against the H6. They also suggest significant reductions in flow resistanceversus the Lancool 3, with the HS 420 also making some appearances here.HAVN began studying its slot spacing and porosity of the ventilation slots in the panels next. The company found that a ratio of length divided by depth being ideally about equal to 6 was optimal for minimizing flow resistance, with the only downside being potential structural challenges. These charts show their flow performance with different slot sizes.As shown in this set of images, the point is that HAVN is really mocking up a ton of different styles of panels, from the shrouds to the slot spacing, to try and determine the thermal performance and optimize for it. This is a major progression for them. It’s a lot of work to do all of this, which is cool to see. Of course, we have to test the product to see how it came together, but the CFM performance of type 4, as they called it, was the best, but we're ultimately looking at tiny differences here. Still, all of those small differences across the case will add up in theory.This image was cool: After all of this thermal testing, HAVN next did mechanical stress simulation for torsional forces against the panel, which allowed them to dial-in the thickness and makeup of the plastics.That continued in this image, where the so-called "type 4" gets another highlight.HAVN highlighted "Design C" for having a 0.8mm metal thickness with the chosen hole sizing.By shaping the fan hub itself to guide flow, HAVN claims that it can better maintain pressure across the hub of the fan and along the inner wall of the blades. This is the area of worst performance in every fan, so optimizing here can also help minimize dead zones behind the hub. HAVN says that the molded flow guide in the hub benefited its noise significantly. The company claims its flow rate also improved significantly for the guided hub.The image above is really cool. Referencing whale-fin evolution, HAVN used tooth-like leading edges on the fan to improve its thermal performance. We've seen this plenty of times in the past, but it never seems to stick around and we're not sure why. In this simulation though, HAVN suggests that the air stream is more uniform along the wavy blade design.Using a 30% glass fiber composite, HAVN saw performance with the new design slightly improve in CFM but largely improve in static pressure, going from 2.21 to 2.40 mmH2O.There's a ton more that HAVN did. The P/Q chart above shows the mock-up performance, including the stall region centrally. We'll save all this discussion for the review, though.HAVN had about 41 pages of this technical presentation, which is actually greatly appreciated. A lot of what remains will be covered in our review, so we'll leave that for now.The bearings are also interesting to talk about. These are called FDBs, depending on how you want to define that. We looked at one that was designed for the company’s 180mm fan. It was a 15mm-tall FDB.  One of the things with fans, in terms of the support, is how the fan’s rod seats into the bearing. As we’re told, the longer the bearing is, the more it will help with the wobble of the blades. Internally looking at the 15mm-tall bearing for the 180mm fan, you can see 3 grooved channels. In our bearings-factory tour, we learned that the grooves are part of the mechanism that allows the fluid to circulate to keep that pressure even across the bearing. That’s supposed to be what's special here but we don’t test bearings individually, but the idea is that 3 channels are supposed to help with the stability of the fluids across the bearing. For the 120mm fans, HAVN is going for roughly a 12mm tall bearing. The company claims that most are between 9-11mm tall for 120mm fans. HAVN allowed us to look at the company’s thermal chamber. There are pros and cons to HAVN’s solution. The pro is that it’s supposed to help control the thermal environment as it circulates the air. The downside to the chamber is that we found it can influence the results, though it depends on the chamber. We found that for our testing specifically, having a larger, open-room environment works better. It is very environment-specific. The company also had a flow-rate tester, which is similar to ours, that can do PQ charts, which the company used to test its new fans. It has a throttle control and a laser tachometer, which provides a reading of the speed of the fan. On one side of the flow-rate tester, there are tubes for the counter blower, which our system also has. Their flow-rate tester also has an air compressor, which is used for actuating some of the nozzles inside the system. We also saw that their flow-rate tester also came with an inexpensive desktop OEM computer.HAVN also has an acoustic chamber, which has a pass-through on the outside coupled with a noise meter, which collects noise levels. One thing we liked seeing once we looked inside the chamber is that we saw a mechanical rigging for the fan, which allows it to be free flowing. They put their microphone in the corner, which we used to do when we had a chamber of a similar size. Putting the mic here allows you to maximize the distance of the chamber by going diagonal, providing maybe a half a meter of space. They also have a foam floor as well, which makes it closer to an anechoic chamber as opposed to something like our hemi-anechoic chamber. Grab a GN Tear-Down Toolkit to support our AD-FREE reviews and IN-DEPTH testing while also getting a high-quality, highly portable 10-piece toolkit that was custom designed for use with video cards for repasting and water block installation. Includes a portable roll bag, hook hangers for pegboards, a storage compartment, and instructional GPU disassembly cards.HAVN is targeting a launch around September for its new products at which point we aim to run our own benchmarks to see how it all performs. #noctua #has #competition #havn #performance
    GAMERSNEXUS.NET
    Noctua Has Competition: HAVN Performance Fans, BF360 Case, & Engineering Data
    Cases News Noctua Has Competition: HAVN Performance Fans, BF360 Case, & Engineering DataMay 23, 2025Last Updated: 2025-05-23We take an early look at HAVN’s new BF360 case and the company’s new unique fans at Computex 2025The HighlightsFor its new products, HAVN has put a heavy emphasis on thermal performance and acousticsHAVN’s upcoming BF360 case brings in new fans in the 180mm, 140mm, and 120mm categoriesHAVN’s 180mm fan uses a 40mm thick frame and special shaping on the hub for what HAVN claims will improve pressure performance across the hub Visit our Patreon page to contribute a few dollars toward this website's operation (or consider a direct donation or buying something from our GN Store!) Additionally, when you purchase through links to retailers on our site, we may earn a small affiliate commission.We visited HAVN’s lab in Taiwan during our Computex 2025 trip. We saw that they were experimenting with a 52mm thick fan for a case it was showing off. The company didn’t end up using that for its case and instead used a new fan design that we’ll discuss in this article.Editor's note: This was originally published on May 17, 2025 as a video. This content has been adapted to written format for this article and is unchanged from the original publication.CreditsHost, WritingSteve BurkeCamera, EditingVitalii MakhnovetsMike GaglioneWriting, Web EditingJimmy ThangDuring our visit, the company showed off its new BF360 case, which follows up their HS 420.  Taking a closer look at the company’s new fan design, you can see some careful shaping to the fan’s hub, which is supposed to help with guiding air flow. We’ll have to see how it performs in our testing, but the idea is taking a thicker fan approach and thickening it even more. The company ended up using a 40mm-thick fan, which should help with pressure.    The company also uses 2x180mm fans mounted to the front of the case.  While we were there, HAVN prepared some CFD simulations for the flow and some simulations for mechanical stresses, on the panel for example, which is pretty interesting.Taking a look at the BF360, the front panel pops out with a tug as it uses magnets to attach itself to the front of the case and has 3 plastic feet that help it snap in at the bottom. The interior of the case’s front panel has a removable fan tray. Its design is somewhat typical but refined from what we’ve seen. HAVN has done a lot of iterations on it. The top panel pulls off and its design is familiar to the HS 420 with its structural design. Once you remove the top panel, it exposes the case’s top fan/radiatory tray, which has rubber bumpers and a slide mechanism that lets you pull it out of the case, providing full access to the top of the chassis and should help with ease of installation. A lot of the steel on the case is either .8mm thick and there’s some that’s 1.0mm, which is thick by today’s standards. Taking a look at the backside of the case, we can see that it has marked cable management pathways, much like the HAVN HS 420 (read our review). This was kind of a nice thing for brand new system builders. Whereas the HS 420 used stickers, the BF360 incorporates it into the molding. Our understanding is that they may refine its design to try and get more light reflection so it’s easier to see. This is a nice attention to detail that adds to the ease of installation. HAVN learned from the HS 420 on the 3 and ½-inch drive support and improved its implementation. There are 2 bays on the back side of the case for those drives and they can be removed. HAVN also changed how it handles the grommets with the case. The string-like material in between is the same but there’s now a little rubber tab that helps to prevent it from popping out by accident once it’s filled with cables. The point here is that HAVN is trying to learn from what they’ve done with the HS 420 and to refine their designs. Taking a look at the BF360’s front panel, it’s supposed to look like stone, but is made of plastic as stone would be extremely heavy. Behind the front panel in the unit we saw are 2x180mm fans. HAVN has shoved a piece of steel at the top, which is supposed to prevent recirculation. This was a huge issue in old BitFenix cases, where due to the company’s design, it would recirculate hot air back into its fans. This design can improve performance in big ways.HAVN tells us that the best setup for the BF360 is to have the top front fan be intake and the top back fan be exhaust, providing you’re using 180mm fans on the top. This matches our testing for other cases in the past. We’ve also found that if you’re populated the top slots, doing intake in front of an air cooler works better because otherwise air gets in the front and would get stolen by an exhaust fan out of the top. The case we looked at had 4x180mm fans (2 in the front and 2 on top) and 1x140mm in the rear.   HAVN tried different types of power supply shroud designs. One had an angled scoop to bring in air from the front bottom 180mm fan. One design had what we’re calling a “toilet-bowl” design, but that ultimately didn’t go through. The next design we looked at featured a more cylindrical/conical design. We asked one of the company’s thermal engineers why that design didn’t work better as it looks like it would project air towards the GPU, which would be a hot spot, and the rep told us that going with a wider design ended up performing thermally better. HAVN provided us some numbers for that, which we’ll take a look at below, but we’ll eventually do our own testing if we can get an early sample. Taking a look at the first mock-up of the case, we can see some rails for the front fans. This design did not progress into the final. It uses a rail system and we’ve seen it in other cases. Corsair has implemented it and has a trademark for it which they call the “InfiniRail.”Looking at the second mock-up, the company moved to vertical rails coupled with horizontal slats. HAVN ended up ditching that design altogether and moved to a tray design, which is sort of moving to a tried-and-true approach. The company incorporated another change where they’ve stamped and folded the tooling. Then we took a look at a design that was closer to final, which has its full corner covered. HAVN showed us 3 different prototypes for the front panel of the case. The first one we looked at featured a wood panel design, which we’ve seen on a lot of cases lately. Wood has certain manufacturing challenges to consider. The white panel you see above is made of aluminum, which is very expensive.The last thing that HAVN is working on that they showed off are fans. There’s been a lot of fan development in the last few years. One of the big marketing phrases you hear a lot these days is LCP (liquid crystal polymer), which is something we talked a lot about at the last Computex. One of the benefits of LCP fans (which HAVN isn’t using here) is that you can get the blades way closer to the interior of the frame. The downside is that it’s incredibly expensive. We have an interview with Noctua’s Jakob Dellinger from 2 years ago that delves into how the company wanted to avoid using LCP for a long time but determined it was necessary to get the performance they wanted. HAVN isn’t using LCP but has designed a fan that has some “teeth” cut out on its blades, which is something we’ve seen before. The company has also shaped its fan hub to be able to scoop air in more. HAVN tells us that having the hub protrude out like a little mountain would offer the best performance but this presents clearance/compatibility issues, especially if you want to put a radiator up against it. Taking a look at the 180mm fan, there’s a 2.0mm distance from the blade to the frame of the fan. We asked if HAVN tried to get it closer and were provided with a lot of data. The company showed us 3 revisions. 1 had a 1.8mm spacing, another had 2.0mm of spacing, and the third had 2.2mm. What they ended up seeing for pressure in mmH2O, is that a 2.0mm spacing ran at 2.19. The 1.8mm fan ran at 2.23, which is an improvement. The CFM (cubic feet per minute) for both was nearly indistinguishable at around 165. The 2.2mm spacing, however, had a big drop off, which is a design they didn’t go with. It had a 2.21 mmH2O pressure, which is more or less within error of the others, but the 159.9 is where that drop off occurs in the CFM. Comparing the 1.8 vs the 2.0mm spacings, they are basically hitting diminishing returns. Seeing this information is nice. We imagine that the benefits here weren’t worth the yields and costs because getting the blades closer to the inner frame could lead to a bad yield during manufacturing or might have the blades expand and hit the frame as it ages with time. This is what happened with a lot of Enermax fans in the past.  Grab a GN15 Large Anti-Static Modmat to celebrate our 15th Anniversary and for a high-quality PC building work surface. The Modmat features useful PC building diagrams and is anti-static conductive. Purchases directly fund our work! (or consider a direct donation or a Patreon contribution!)Now we’re going to go over HAVN’s first-part numbers, but we plan to do our own performance review of the case and fans once they’re available. First-party data should be looked at with some reasonable care. Thermal comparisons should only be made against their own results here, not against ours, as the benches are different. The flat, typical shroud style was comparable to the rectangular type in result, with the rectangular type slightly better. We think this will see a larger impact in our testing, but we'd need the three types to know for sure. The important comparison is against the cylindrical type, where HAVN saw worse results by a measurable amount. Performance worsened by 1-2 degrees on the CPU and about 2 degrees on the GPU. That's a large GPU temperature increase.In their next test slide, HAVN tested various fan configurations with the flat shroud. The results were mostly as expected: CPU performance is hurt drastically by having only a bottom intake fan, to no surprise.More interestingly, the ramp type shroud makes comparisons in "B" with a fan level with the top of it and "A" with a fan sunken to the floor of the ramp. The sunken approach resulted in marginally worse CPU thermals in A as compared to B, with GPU thermals mostly unchanged.This slide shows CFD simulation and flow mapping for ramp angles at 120 and 135 degrees. HAVN has drawn a few highlights around areas of re-circulation or heat accumulation, particularly marked at "1" where the 120-degree ramp angle shows worse areas of heat build-up. HAVN tested this in 5-degree increments from 120 to 140, finding that 135 was a good balance when noise normalized.In the above image, they show the fan spacing again, with a 20mm height increase benefiting performance.HAVN didn't shy away from competitive comparisons. The company says its BF 360 with its final front panel, shown above in light blue, had competitive performance against the H6. They also suggest significant reductions in flow resistance (which is a good thing) versus the Lancool 3, with the HS 420 also making some appearances here.HAVN began studying its slot spacing and porosity of the ventilation slots in the panels next. The company found that a ratio of length divided by depth being ideally about equal to 6 was optimal for minimizing flow resistance, with the only downside being potential structural challenges. These charts show their flow performance with different slot sizes.As shown in this set of images, the point is that HAVN is really mocking up a ton of different styles of panels, from the shrouds to the slot spacing, to try and determine the thermal performance and optimize for it. This is a major progression for them. It’s a lot of work to do all of this, which is cool to see. Of course, we have to test the product to see how it came together, but the CFM performance of type 4, as they called it, was the best, but we're ultimately looking at tiny differences here. Still, all of those small differences across the case will add up in theory.This image was cool: After all of this thermal testing, HAVN next did mechanical stress simulation for torsional forces against the panel, which allowed them to dial-in the thickness and makeup of the plastics.That continued in this image, where the so-called "type 4" gets another highlight.HAVN highlighted "Design C" for having a 0.8mm metal thickness with the chosen hole sizing.By shaping the fan hub itself to guide flow, HAVN claims that it can better maintain pressure across the hub of the fan and along the inner wall of the blades. This is the area of worst performance in every fan, so optimizing here can also help minimize dead zones behind the hub. HAVN says that the molded flow guide in the hub benefited its noise significantly. The company claims its flow rate also improved significantly for the guided hub.The image above is really cool. Referencing whale-fin evolution, HAVN used tooth-like leading edges on the fan to improve its thermal performance. We've seen this plenty of times in the past, but it never seems to stick around and we're not sure why. In this simulation though, HAVN suggests that the air stream is more uniform along the wavy blade design.Using a 30% glass fiber composite, HAVN saw performance with the new design slightly improve in CFM but largely improve in static pressure, going from 2.21 to 2.40 mmH2O.There's a ton more that HAVN did. The P/Q chart above shows the mock-up performance, including the stall region centrally. We'll save all this discussion for the review, though.HAVN had about 41 pages of this technical presentation, which is actually greatly appreciated. A lot of what remains will be covered in our review, so we'll leave that for now.The bearings are also interesting to talk about. These are called FDBs (Fluid Dynamic Bearings), depending on how you want to define that. We looked at one that was designed for the company’s 180mm fan. It was a 15mm-tall FDB.  One of the things with fans, in terms of the support, is how the fan’s rod seats into the bearing. As we’re told, the longer the bearing is, the more it will help with the wobble of the blades. Internally looking at the 15mm-tall bearing for the 180mm fan, you can see 3 grooved channels. In our bearings-factory tour, we learned that the grooves are part of the mechanism that allows the fluid to circulate to keep that pressure even across the bearing. That’s supposed to be what's special here but we don’t test bearings individually, but the idea is that 3 channels are supposed to help with the stability of the fluids across the bearing. For the 120mm fans, HAVN is going for roughly a 12mm tall bearing. The company claims that most are between 9-11mm tall for 120mm fans. HAVN allowed us to look at the company’s thermal chamber. There are pros and cons to HAVN’s solution. The pro is that it’s supposed to help control the thermal environment as it circulates the air. The downside to the chamber is that we found it can influence the results, though it depends on the chamber. We found that for our testing specifically, having a larger, open-room environment works better. It is very environment-specific. The company also had a flow-rate tester, which is similar to ours, that can do PQ charts, which the company used to test its new fans. It has a throttle control and a laser tachometer, which provides a reading of the speed of the fan. On one side of the flow-rate tester, there are tubes for the counter blower, which our system also has. Their flow-rate tester also has an air compressor, which is used for actuating some of the nozzles inside the system. We also saw that their flow-rate tester also came with an inexpensive desktop OEM computer (in this case, a ThinkCentre PC running an i5-12400).HAVN also has an acoustic chamber, which has a pass-through on the outside coupled with a noise meter, which collects noise levels. One thing we liked seeing once we looked inside the chamber is that we saw a mechanical rigging for the fan, which allows it to be free flowing. They put their microphone in the corner, which we used to do when we had a chamber of a similar size. Putting the mic here allows you to maximize the distance of the chamber by going diagonal, providing maybe a half a meter of space. They also have a foam floor as well, which makes it closer to an anechoic chamber as opposed to something like our hemi-anechoic chamber. Grab a GN Tear-Down Toolkit to support our AD-FREE reviews and IN-DEPTH testing while also getting a high-quality, highly portable 10-piece toolkit that was custom designed for use with video cards for repasting and water block installation. Includes a portable roll bag, hook hangers for pegboards, a storage compartment, and instructional GPU disassembly cards.HAVN is targeting a launch around September for its new products at which point we aim to run our own benchmarks to see how it all performs.
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  • “I’m Not Sure It Could Have Existed At Any Other Time” – Big Mouth Creators On Series’ Ending

    This article contains spoilers for Big Mouth season 8.
    It’s become increasingly rare for a streaming series to end on its own terms, especially when that series has run for eight seasons and revolves around the uncontrollable hormonal impulses of a bunch of teenagers. 
    Big Mouth made waves upon its premiere back in 2017, yet it’s grown into one of Netflix’s longest-running shows and a program that’s experienced as many changes as its adolescent protagonists. The series is comfortable indulging in its cruder and more mature impulses, whether that’s relentless Hormone Monsters or anthropomorphic genitals. That being said, there’s an undeniable heart to Big Mouth and it’s an animated comedy that actually strives to educate and enlighten, as wild as that may seem, as it preaches inclusivity and a truly modern world of sex, relationships, and identity. 

    As Big Mouth reaches its splashy big finish with its eighth season, the comedy’s co-creators — Andrew Goldberg, Jennifer Flackett, and Mark Levin — open up on their animated project’s farewell year. Goldberg, Flackett, and Levin get candid on Big Mouth’s latest changes as its characters acclimate to high school, the highs and lows of pornography, and their trepidation over sticking the landing. Also: the one storyline that was almost turned into its own interactive episode!

    DEN OF GEEK: It’s been so much fun to see this series evolve since its beginning. Is it satisfying to get the rare luxury of bringing many of these characters’ stories to fruition across eight seasons as they all find their respective cliques and learn a little more about themselves?
    MARK LEVIN: I mean, it is a rare treat to be able to tell a story that long and to be able to really explore these characters in depth over so much time. To have anyone’s puberty last eight years is pretty cool. 
    JENNIFER FLACKETT: But also to age the characters and to have animation that changes was not something that. Andrew often talks about the fact, because he’s from Family Guy. He never thought that the character models would change and we hadn’t really talked about that. Then when we realized that the show’s all about changes, that was really interesting to us. 
    ML: Also, to have the runway to be able to know that we were going to close out the show, and to be very thoughtful and intentional in our approach to that, was great. We went on a retreat with the writers in advance of season eight to just talk about everything and wrestling with this big idea. Ultimately, the big question was, “How do you end a story about characters who are just beginning their story – their lives,” you know? That’s the conclusion of the future being the thing they have to wrestle with most–the unknown of the future. 
    I’m glad you touched on that too, because I do think there are always really high expectations that surround any series finale and I think you guys handled this one very gracefully. Was this always kind of the ending that you had envisioned for the show? Did it change over time?
    ANDREW GOLDBERG: No, we don’t have plans. We even like to figure out each season with our staff as we go. I mean, it would be great if we had a plan from the very beginning, but we did not, and like Mark said, we really came into season eight with this dilemma of “how do you tell the end of a story about kids who are just starting out?” I remember when we were first talking about what the final episode would be, Gil Ozeri, who wrote it, kind of looked at us and was like, “Well, you guys, it’s your show. What do you think? What is the show about?” And I was like, “I don’t know.” Mark thought that the most salient thing that we’ve learned over the years is that the show is about this idea that you’re not alone. That was sort of our guiding principle for the final episode, too. This idea that the future is scary and unknown, but you’re not alone. You have your friends to go into it with. 

    Were there any other series finales that you looked to for inspiration? I felt the tiniest bit of Moonlighting in terms of the characters’ universe kind of being dismantled around them.

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    AG: Not really. I wanted to do that Andrew was masturbating and right before he comes, it cuts to black, and we don’t know if he comes or not or if he gets shot by the guy in the diner. Nobody else got on board with that.
    JF: I will say, like when you were just talking about it – to me Cheers and Mary Tyler Moore– 
    AG: Cheers was a great finale. 
    JF: Those were two great finales that were funny and were emotional. That has always been our guiding light with Big Mouth. We didn’t really realize when we first started how important the emotionality was going to be. That these were kids with big feelings and everything mattered so much. So I think just that idea–we knew we wanted the end to be emotional, but it was also emotional for us! When we had our final table read and all those kids walked off, everyone was crying. So, I think that also a big part of it, too – being funny, emotional, and that we really wanted to do well by these characters. We wanted to feel like the future was pretty bright for them.
    AG: Sometimes with finales, shows try to reinvent the wheel. They’ll make the finale its whole own thing. As a fan, I always like a finale that’s just like a really good episode of the show. That was also one of our goals and one of the reasons why we went back to the middle school for the finale because that was the heart of the show.

    Big Mouth is obviously very silly, but it pushes some really important messages, too. It’s filled with encouraging examples of representation as well. Which storyline or piece of character development are you the most proud of bringing to life here?
    JF: I just think we all learned so much about human sexuality and human development making this show. I can really say I learned a lot and I feel like we really created something where the things that we learned–we really wanted to tell people about things like female pleasure. I did not think that was a story that I was going to do. Like, I knew there’d be periods. I knew there’d be masturbation, right? But beyond that–going into asexuality and all these things that really came from real students that we spoke to who said, “I don’t feel represented.” That was really interesting and we didn’t really know about that. I think that always interested us in all these different ways. Consent is something – both in the first and the last season – that we really talk about in a specific kind of way. Those were things we learned as the world changed. The world changed so much while we were making the show, so we had to really keep abreast of everything. 
    And Holly Hunter is Compassion. I really will say that Holly Hunter’s Compassion was a real thrill for all of us. 
    AG: I agree that the learning experience of making this show has been incredible and the breadth of who we’ve learned from. We had this moment in season one where we did “Girls Are Horny Too,” where we realized–we had read Peggy Orenstein’s book, Girls & Sex, and she had come to the writers’ room to talk to us. One of the things that she writes about is that in sex ed, we teach boys about their boners and ejaculation and girls about menstruation. We don’t teach–we don’t imply to girls as we’re teaching about sex–that they’re supposed to experience pleasure, too. We realized, “Oh my God, our first episode is literally about a boy masturbating and in the second episode a girl gets her period. We did the very thing that we’re not supposed to do. So we course-corrected with the fifth episode of the first season, “Girls Are Horny Too.” 
    Then, like Jen said, the idea for having an asexual kid was totally born out of how we speak to teenagers every year with their sex ed teacher, Shafia Zaloum, who’s a great sex ed teacher in the Bay Area. That storyline came directly from one of her students being like, “Hey, I’m asexual, and I’d really love to see a character like me on TV.” We were like, “Absolutely.” He actually read scripts for us and gave us his thoughts. It was a really great collaboration. So, we’ve had this amazing experience where we’re learning from experts, but also from teenagers; from kids.
    The pornography episode from this season is really strong, but it’s also exciting that you’re able to do an episode that helps normalize pornography, break it down, but also explore the more toxic behavior it can reinforce, too. Did this feel like significant subject matter to explore?

    JF: Well, that’s always how we like to explore any topic: like we’re having a conversation. The first one was about the head push and if it’s okay or if it’s not okay. We were like, “Oh, that’s got to go in the show.” Our kids need to basically be having the same conversation that we’re having. That’s often a way that leads us, but it was actually my daughter who was talking about guys and their relationship with porn. She was like, “It’s really kind of ruined them and it’s such a bummer.” So when we were coming into this last season, I thought that we should explore that. We had done porn in the very first season, but it didn’t get to the heart of the problem. 
    AG: It was more of an addiction story. 
    JF: It was more of an addiction story. It wasn’t really a porn story. We really realized–and this was another thing we talked to a lot of people about–just about how porn was becoming sex education and how unfortunate that is and what do we do about it. How do you masturbate again when you’ve gotten used to porn? All those things. It’s not just one thing. It turned out it was a lot of things, all of which play out over three episodes. You really get the chance to realize what’s going on and how it can actually affect your life in all these different ways.
    AG: We had this really cool experience where–as we were figuring out that story, we always, every season, meet with a group of teenagers via Zoom and really pick their brains and ask them questions. This time, for the first time ever, we split them up between boys and girls because we wanted to hear what the boys had to say and what the girls had to say. It was amazing just the disconnect that seemed to occur where – at least for the groups of kids that we talked to – the boys were kind of like, “We get it. Porn isn’t real. It doesn’t actually affect the way we behave.” While the girls were like, “No.” They did not feel the same way.
    JF: It was shocking, but true! All that was just so  interesting. 
    Absolutely, and then to have your characters at an age where they can emulate that behavior, too. I always love when the show will do a bit of a concept episode that does something structurally different, like the penultimate entry that has the whole grab bag of odds and ends formula. I think that’s such a smart way to touch on a bunch of stuff that couldn’t organically be covered in the series.

    ML: When you’re heading to the end of an experience like this, you realize there’s so much left to say and so much you still want to say. In this case, we reached out through social media to the fans and said, “Hey, what are the things you wish we talked about?” That’s really true, we really did do that. 
    So, are those real questions, then, from real fans? 
    ML: Yeah, those topics, they’re all real. 
    JF: And when we say that there was a ton about queefing, that’s also actually true. We had thousands of responses. We had this vaginismus story and one of the guys on the staff was like, “I don’t like the vaginismus story…” But a lot of people were asking about it so clearly there is interest there! So I wanted to find a way to do that.
    ML: It all really came from that experience of serving the fans. And we love form-breaker episodes. We love form-breakers, but this was a great one. It was an opportunity, in a grab bag kind of way, to race through all these things that we never got a chance to talk about. These probably would have been episodes or storylines, but maybe they’re even better for the fact that they don’t last for an entire episode. “What’s it like to go to the gynecologist?” That doesn’t need to be a whole episode. These ideas can be their own mini-movies, like the Looney Tunes one.
    Well, I was going to say exactly that. You dress each one up in a different style, whether it’s The Twilight Zone or the whole Looney Tunes aesthetic. Was this episode more of a challenge to bring together?

    AG: Yeah, I think that’s always the fun with the form-breakers. I think it’s fun for the fans. It’s fun for us, too, on a creative level. Last year we did the international episode, where we did a show in different languages. We did that Christmas episode with all the different kinds of animation. It’s always so much fun for us, but this one in particular was great because I do think our fans are so invested. They feel so much ownership over the show and we’re happy to share that with them. It was exciting to see all their questions that Maury explores in that episode. 
    You mentioned before that you don’t like to plan things out, but this season brings closure to the Ponytail Killer after so long, which is super funny to me. I can see this being an idea that just kept getting pushed back during previous seasons, but had you planned to do more with this tangent over the years? Did you know that this was the killer’s identity from the start?
    JF: And it was! We had tried to do something with the Ponytail Killer a couple of other times, but it just didn’t feel right. This felt good though and we were finally able to pay that one off.
    ML: At one point, we were talking about doing an interactive “Choose-Your-Own Adventure” episode like Black Mirror’s “Bandersnatch.” There was a minute where everything was going to be interactive! We flirted with the idea of doing a “Choose-Your-Own Adventure” episode where you solve the Ponytail Killer’s murders. We went down that road, but we realized just how much work it would take–it would have been like a whole season’s worth of work just to make all the multiple threads. So we were happy to at least bring closure to it inside this season. 
    AG: My favorite part of that is when Lola is like, “What? Who cares?”
    There are Reddit threads out there that have guessed it! There are people that will be very satisfied with this season.

    JF: One of my favorite Reddit threads is about, “Does Cyrus wear the radish bra?”
    Eight seasons is a lot of time to spend with these characters, but would you ever want to return to them and this universe, perhaps when they’re adults with kids of their own? Is there a possibility that you might do something like periodic Big Mouth specials in the future or some further extension of the series?
    ML: Yeah, I mean, we love these kids. We really want to see what happens to them. It’s fun to just let them go off into the void and imagine what would happen, but I’m sure that over time, we’ll miss them and want to revisit them again. Whether it’s the college years or some other thing, you know? 
    JF: It’s funny, because what happens is before you know exactly when your show is going to end, you’re like, “It’s so hard to find these stories…” But then when you know that you’re going to end, we suddenly had more stories to tell because we moved them to high school. It was ironic, but also kind of lovely, because you always want to leave people wanting more. That’s a great feeling and it’s nice to not feel like we’ve completely exhausted everything. It’s very bittersweet. We’ve had an amazing run here and we were at Netflix at just the right time. I’m not sure if Big Mouth could have existed at any other time.
    It seems like Big Mouth got to tell its full story, but that this might not have necessarily been the case with Human Resources. Can you talk a little on where else that show had gone if it lasted longer? Were there any ideas for future Human Resources stories that were incorporated into this final season as a way of providing closure?
    JF: We loved Human Resources. I mean, we just thought that was a great, great show, and such a wonderful universe. 

    ML: They’re infinite things that could be done there! And you know, there is an episode this season that visits Human Resources again. We really wanted to go back to Human Resources, whether it was in that episode where we had the Keke Palmer and Aidy Bryant characters come back. Rosie Perez’s character, too. The whole cast! We wanted to weave them all into this season to make sure that they were acknowledged as such an important part of the universe. We were fortunate to get to explore all of that in the same show, but just through a flipped perspective. We were seeing it all from the monsters’ point of view, but now we’re back to the kids. But we absolutely loved, loved Human Resources. 
    Big Mouth has ended, but your new animated series, Mating Season, has been announced. Can you talk at all on how this idea came together, what this show was born out of, and if it will have a similar vibe to Big Mouth or be a different type of animal?
    ML: The vibe will be similar in some ways, in that, it’s very honest and it deals, frankly, with things that we all deal with. In Big Mouth, it was puberty and that temporary change, but Mating Season is looking kind of into your twenties – your late twenties – when you’re trying to find a mate. You find your person, or hook up, or, you know – have sex, get married, all those things that we struggled with then.
    JF: What we always found in Big Mouth, when we were trying to depict sex, was that it was better when it had a metaphor behind it. But we realized that you really don’t want to see humans having sex. However, with animals, it’s a lot funnier. 
    ML: You’re not going to see anything you don’t see in the zoo, or in the forest, or in your backyard.
    I’m looking forward to it. I appreciated the Animorphs reference this season, so if you can make one of the characters an Animorph–just have one be an animal that is actually a human in disguise. I think that’s a fun approach.

    ML: That is a good idea. We’re putting it on the list.
    JF: We’re putting it on the list.
    Beautiful. That’s all I ask.

    All eight seasons of Big Mouth are now streaming on Netflix
    #not #sure #could #have #existed
    “I’m Not Sure It Could Have Existed At Any Other Time” – Big Mouth Creators On Series’ Ending
    This article contains spoilers for Big Mouth season 8. It’s become increasingly rare for a streaming series to end on its own terms, especially when that series has run for eight seasons and revolves around the uncontrollable hormonal impulses of a bunch of teenagers.  Big Mouth made waves upon its premiere back in 2017, yet it’s grown into one of Netflix’s longest-running shows and a program that’s experienced as many changes as its adolescent protagonists. The series is comfortable indulging in its cruder and more mature impulses, whether that’s relentless Hormone Monsters or anthropomorphic genitals. That being said, there’s an undeniable heart to Big Mouth and it’s an animated comedy that actually strives to educate and enlighten, as wild as that may seem, as it preaches inclusivity and a truly modern world of sex, relationships, and identity.  As Big Mouth reaches its splashy big finish with its eighth season, the comedy’s co-creators — Andrew Goldberg, Jennifer Flackett, and Mark Levin — open up on their animated project’s farewell year. Goldberg, Flackett, and Levin get candid on Big Mouth’s latest changes as its characters acclimate to high school, the highs and lows of pornography, and their trepidation over sticking the landing. Also: the one storyline that was almost turned into its own interactive episode! DEN OF GEEK: It’s been so much fun to see this series evolve since its beginning. Is it satisfying to get the rare luxury of bringing many of these characters’ stories to fruition across eight seasons as they all find their respective cliques and learn a little more about themselves? MARK LEVIN: I mean, it is a rare treat to be able to tell a story that long and to be able to really explore these characters in depth over so much time. To have anyone’s puberty last eight years is pretty cool.  JENNIFER FLACKETT: But also to age the characters and to have animation that changes was not something that. Andrew often talks about the fact, because he’s from Family Guy. He never thought that the character models would change and we hadn’t really talked about that. Then when we realized that the show’s all about changes, that was really interesting to us.  ML: Also, to have the runway to be able to know that we were going to close out the show, and to be very thoughtful and intentional in our approach to that, was great. We went on a retreat with the writers in advance of season eight to just talk about everything and wrestling with this big idea. Ultimately, the big question was, “How do you end a story about characters who are just beginning their story – their lives,” you know? That’s the conclusion of the future being the thing they have to wrestle with most–the unknown of the future.  I’m glad you touched on that too, because I do think there are always really high expectations that surround any series finale and I think you guys handled this one very gracefully. Was this always kind of the ending that you had envisioned for the show? Did it change over time? ANDREW GOLDBERG: No, we don’t have plans. We even like to figure out each season with our staff as we go. I mean, it would be great if we had a plan from the very beginning, but we did not, and like Mark said, we really came into season eight with this dilemma of “how do you tell the end of a story about kids who are just starting out?” I remember when we were first talking about what the final episode would be, Gil Ozeri, who wrote it, kind of looked at us and was like, “Well, you guys, it’s your show. What do you think? What is the show about?” And I was like, “I don’t know.” Mark thought that the most salient thing that we’ve learned over the years is that the show is about this idea that you’re not alone. That was sort of our guiding principle for the final episode, too. This idea that the future is scary and unknown, but you’re not alone. You have your friends to go into it with.  Were there any other series finales that you looked to for inspiration? I felt the tiniest bit of Moonlighting in terms of the characters’ universe kind of being dismantled around them. Join our mailing list Get the best of Den of Geek delivered right to your inbox! AG: Not really. I wanted to do that Andrew was masturbating and right before he comes, it cuts to black, and we don’t know if he comes or not or if he gets shot by the guy in the diner. Nobody else got on board with that. JF: I will say, like when you were just talking about it – to me Cheers and Mary Tyler Moore–  AG: Cheers was a great finale.  JF: Those were two great finales that were funny and were emotional. That has always been our guiding light with Big Mouth. We didn’t really realize when we first started how important the emotionality was going to be. That these were kids with big feelings and everything mattered so much. So I think just that idea–we knew we wanted the end to be emotional, but it was also emotional for us! When we had our final table read and all those kids walked off, everyone was crying. So, I think that also a big part of it, too – being funny, emotional, and that we really wanted to do well by these characters. We wanted to feel like the future was pretty bright for them. AG: Sometimes with finales, shows try to reinvent the wheel. They’ll make the finale its whole own thing. As a fan, I always like a finale that’s just like a really good episode of the show. That was also one of our goals and one of the reasons why we went back to the middle school for the finale because that was the heart of the show. Big Mouth is obviously very silly, but it pushes some really important messages, too. It’s filled with encouraging examples of representation as well. Which storyline or piece of character development are you the most proud of bringing to life here? JF: I just think we all learned so much about human sexuality and human development making this show. I can really say I learned a lot and I feel like we really created something where the things that we learned–we really wanted to tell people about things like female pleasure. I did not think that was a story that I was going to do. Like, I knew there’d be periods. I knew there’d be masturbation, right? But beyond that–going into asexuality and all these things that really came from real students that we spoke to who said, “I don’t feel represented.” That was really interesting and we didn’t really know about that. I think that always interested us in all these different ways. Consent is something – both in the first and the last season – that we really talk about in a specific kind of way. Those were things we learned as the world changed. The world changed so much while we were making the show, so we had to really keep abreast of everything.  And Holly Hunter is Compassion. I really will say that Holly Hunter’s Compassion was a real thrill for all of us.  AG: I agree that the learning experience of making this show has been incredible and the breadth of who we’ve learned from. We had this moment in season one where we did “Girls Are Horny Too,” where we realized–we had read Peggy Orenstein’s book, Girls & Sex, and she had come to the writers’ room to talk to us. One of the things that she writes about is that in sex ed, we teach boys about their boners and ejaculation and girls about menstruation. We don’t teach–we don’t imply to girls as we’re teaching about sex–that they’re supposed to experience pleasure, too. We realized, “Oh my God, our first episode is literally about a boy masturbating and in the second episode a girl gets her period. We did the very thing that we’re not supposed to do. So we course-corrected with the fifth episode of the first season, “Girls Are Horny Too.”  Then, like Jen said, the idea for having an asexual kid was totally born out of how we speak to teenagers every year with their sex ed teacher, Shafia Zaloum, who’s a great sex ed teacher in the Bay Area. That storyline came directly from one of her students being like, “Hey, I’m asexual, and I’d really love to see a character like me on TV.” We were like, “Absolutely.” He actually read scripts for us and gave us his thoughts. It was a really great collaboration. So, we’ve had this amazing experience where we’re learning from experts, but also from teenagers; from kids. The pornography episode from this season is really strong, but it’s also exciting that you’re able to do an episode that helps normalize pornography, break it down, but also explore the more toxic behavior it can reinforce, too. Did this feel like significant subject matter to explore? JF: Well, that’s always how we like to explore any topic: like we’re having a conversation. The first one was about the head push and if it’s okay or if it’s not okay. We were like, “Oh, that’s got to go in the show.” Our kids need to basically be having the same conversation that we’re having. That’s often a way that leads us, but it was actually my daughter who was talking about guys and their relationship with porn. She was like, “It’s really kind of ruined them and it’s such a bummer.” So when we were coming into this last season, I thought that we should explore that. We had done porn in the very first season, but it didn’t get to the heart of the problem.  AG: It was more of an addiction story.  JF: It was more of an addiction story. It wasn’t really a porn story. We really realized–and this was another thing we talked to a lot of people about–just about how porn was becoming sex education and how unfortunate that is and what do we do about it. How do you masturbate again when you’ve gotten used to porn? All those things. It’s not just one thing. It turned out it was a lot of things, all of which play out over three episodes. You really get the chance to realize what’s going on and how it can actually affect your life in all these different ways. AG: We had this really cool experience where–as we were figuring out that story, we always, every season, meet with a group of teenagers via Zoom and really pick their brains and ask them questions. This time, for the first time ever, we split them up between boys and girls because we wanted to hear what the boys had to say and what the girls had to say. It was amazing just the disconnect that seemed to occur where – at least for the groups of kids that we talked to – the boys were kind of like, “We get it. Porn isn’t real. It doesn’t actually affect the way we behave.” While the girls were like, “No.” They did not feel the same way. JF: It was shocking, but true! All that was just so  interesting.  Absolutely, and then to have your characters at an age where they can emulate that behavior, too. I always love when the show will do a bit of a concept episode that does something structurally different, like the penultimate entry that has the whole grab bag of odds and ends formula. I think that’s such a smart way to touch on a bunch of stuff that couldn’t organically be covered in the series. ML: When you’re heading to the end of an experience like this, you realize there’s so much left to say and so much you still want to say. In this case, we reached out through social media to the fans and said, “Hey, what are the things you wish we talked about?” That’s really true, we really did do that.  So, are those real questions, then, from real fans?  ML: Yeah, those topics, they’re all real.  JF: And when we say that there was a ton about queefing, that’s also actually true. We had thousands of responses. We had this vaginismus story and one of the guys on the staff was like, “I don’t like the vaginismus story…” But a lot of people were asking about it so clearly there is interest there! So I wanted to find a way to do that. ML: It all really came from that experience of serving the fans. And we love form-breaker episodes. We love form-breakers, but this was a great one. It was an opportunity, in a grab bag kind of way, to race through all these things that we never got a chance to talk about. These probably would have been episodes or storylines, but maybe they’re even better for the fact that they don’t last for an entire episode. “What’s it like to go to the gynecologist?” That doesn’t need to be a whole episode. These ideas can be their own mini-movies, like the Looney Tunes one. Well, I was going to say exactly that. You dress each one up in a different style, whether it’s The Twilight Zone or the whole Looney Tunes aesthetic. Was this episode more of a challenge to bring together? AG: Yeah, I think that’s always the fun with the form-breakers. I think it’s fun for the fans. It’s fun for us, too, on a creative level. Last year we did the international episode, where we did a show in different languages. We did that Christmas episode with all the different kinds of animation. It’s always so much fun for us, but this one in particular was great because I do think our fans are so invested. They feel so much ownership over the show and we’re happy to share that with them. It was exciting to see all their questions that Maury explores in that episode.  You mentioned before that you don’t like to plan things out, but this season brings closure to the Ponytail Killer after so long, which is super funny to me. I can see this being an idea that just kept getting pushed back during previous seasons, but had you planned to do more with this tangent over the years? Did you know that this was the killer’s identity from the start? JF: And it was! We had tried to do something with the Ponytail Killer a couple of other times, but it just didn’t feel right. This felt good though and we were finally able to pay that one off. ML: At one point, we were talking about doing an interactive “Choose-Your-Own Adventure” episode like Black Mirror’s “Bandersnatch.” There was a minute where everything was going to be interactive! We flirted with the idea of doing a “Choose-Your-Own Adventure” episode where you solve the Ponytail Killer’s murders. We went down that road, but we realized just how much work it would take–it would have been like a whole season’s worth of work just to make all the multiple threads. So we were happy to at least bring closure to it inside this season.  AG: My favorite part of that is when Lola is like, “What? Who cares?” There are Reddit threads out there that have guessed it! There are people that will be very satisfied with this season. JF: One of my favorite Reddit threads is about, “Does Cyrus wear the radish bra?” Eight seasons is a lot of time to spend with these characters, but would you ever want to return to them and this universe, perhaps when they’re adults with kids of their own? Is there a possibility that you might do something like periodic Big Mouth specials in the future or some further extension of the series? ML: Yeah, I mean, we love these kids. We really want to see what happens to them. It’s fun to just let them go off into the void and imagine what would happen, but I’m sure that over time, we’ll miss them and want to revisit them again. Whether it’s the college years or some other thing, you know?  JF: It’s funny, because what happens is before you know exactly when your show is going to end, you’re like, “It’s so hard to find these stories…” But then when you know that you’re going to end, we suddenly had more stories to tell because we moved them to high school. It was ironic, but also kind of lovely, because you always want to leave people wanting more. That’s a great feeling and it’s nice to not feel like we’ve completely exhausted everything. It’s very bittersweet. We’ve had an amazing run here and we were at Netflix at just the right time. I’m not sure if Big Mouth could have existed at any other time. It seems like Big Mouth got to tell its full story, but that this might not have necessarily been the case with Human Resources. Can you talk a little on where else that show had gone if it lasted longer? Were there any ideas for future Human Resources stories that were incorporated into this final season as a way of providing closure? JF: We loved Human Resources. I mean, we just thought that was a great, great show, and such a wonderful universe.  ML: They’re infinite things that could be done there! And you know, there is an episode this season that visits Human Resources again. We really wanted to go back to Human Resources, whether it was in that episode where we had the Keke Palmer and Aidy Bryant characters come back. Rosie Perez’s character, too. The whole cast! We wanted to weave them all into this season to make sure that they were acknowledged as such an important part of the universe. We were fortunate to get to explore all of that in the same show, but just through a flipped perspective. We were seeing it all from the monsters’ point of view, but now we’re back to the kids. But we absolutely loved, loved Human Resources.  Big Mouth has ended, but your new animated series, Mating Season, has been announced. Can you talk at all on how this idea came together, what this show was born out of, and if it will have a similar vibe to Big Mouth or be a different type of animal? ML: The vibe will be similar in some ways, in that, it’s very honest and it deals, frankly, with things that we all deal with. In Big Mouth, it was puberty and that temporary change, but Mating Season is looking kind of into your twenties – your late twenties – when you’re trying to find a mate. You find your person, or hook up, or, you know – have sex, get married, all those things that we struggled with then. JF: What we always found in Big Mouth, when we were trying to depict sex, was that it was better when it had a metaphor behind it. But we realized that you really don’t want to see humans having sex. However, with animals, it’s a lot funnier.  ML: You’re not going to see anything you don’t see in the zoo, or in the forest, or in your backyard. I’m looking forward to it. I appreciated the Animorphs reference this season, so if you can make one of the characters an Animorph–just have one be an animal that is actually a human in disguise. I think that’s a fun approach. ML: That is a good idea. We’re putting it on the list. JF: We’re putting it on the list. Beautiful. That’s all I ask. All eight seasons of Big Mouth are now streaming on Netflix #not #sure #could #have #existed
    WWW.DENOFGEEK.COM
    “I’m Not Sure It Could Have Existed At Any Other Time” – Big Mouth Creators On Series’ Ending
    This article contains spoilers for Big Mouth season 8. It’s become increasingly rare for a streaming series to end on its own terms, especially when that series has run for eight seasons and revolves around the uncontrollable hormonal impulses of a bunch of teenagers.  Big Mouth made waves upon its premiere back in 2017, yet it’s grown into one of Netflix’s longest-running shows and a program that’s experienced as many changes as its adolescent protagonists. The series is comfortable indulging in its cruder and more mature impulses, whether that’s relentless Hormone Monsters or anthropomorphic genitals. That being said, there’s an undeniable heart to Big Mouth and it’s an animated comedy that actually strives to educate and enlighten, as wild as that may seem, as it preaches inclusivity and a truly modern world of sex, relationships, and identity.  As Big Mouth reaches its splashy big finish with its eighth season, the comedy’s co-creators — Andrew Goldberg, Jennifer Flackett, and Mark Levin — open up on their animated project’s farewell year. Goldberg, Flackett, and Levin get candid on Big Mouth’s latest changes as its characters acclimate to high school, the highs and lows of pornography, and their trepidation over sticking the landing. Also: the one storyline that was almost turned into its own interactive episode! DEN OF GEEK: It’s been so much fun to see this series evolve since its beginning. Is it satisfying to get the rare luxury of bringing many of these characters’ stories to fruition across eight seasons as they all find their respective cliques and learn a little more about themselves? MARK LEVIN: I mean, it is a rare treat to be able to tell a story that long and to be able to really explore these characters in depth over so much time. To have anyone’s puberty last eight years is pretty cool.  JENNIFER FLACKETT: But also to age the characters and to have animation that changes was not something that [we anticipated]. Andrew often talks about the fact, because he’s from Family Guy. He never thought that the character models would change and we hadn’t really talked about that. Then when we realized that the show’s all about changes, that was really interesting to us.  ML: Also, to have the runway to be able to know that we were going to close out the show, and to be very thoughtful and intentional in our approach to that, was great. We went on a retreat with the writers in advance of season eight to just talk about everything and wrestling with this big idea. Ultimately, the big question was, “How do you end a story about characters who are just beginning their story – their lives,” you know? That’s the conclusion of the future being the thing they have to wrestle with most–the unknown of the future.  I’m glad you touched on that too, because I do think there are always really high expectations that surround any series finale and I think you guys handled this one very gracefully. Was this always kind of the ending that you had envisioned for the show? Did it change over time? ANDREW GOLDBERG: No, we don’t have plans. We even like to figure out each season with our staff as we go. I mean, it would be great if we had a plan from the very beginning, but we did not, and like Mark said, we really came into season eight with this dilemma of “how do you tell the end of a story about kids who are just starting out?” I remember when we were first talking about what the final episode would be, Gil Ozeri, who wrote it, kind of looked at us and was like, “Well, you guys, it’s your show. What do you think? What is the show about?” And I was like, “I don’t know.” Mark thought that the most salient thing that we’ve learned over the years is that the show is about this idea that you’re not alone. That was sort of our guiding principle for the final episode, too. This idea that the future is scary and unknown, but you’re not alone. You have your friends to go into it with.  Were there any other series finales that you looked to for inspiration? I felt the tiniest bit of Moonlighting in terms of the characters’ universe kind of being dismantled around them. Join our mailing list Get the best of Den of Geek delivered right to your inbox! AG: Not really. I wanted to do that Andrew was masturbating and right before he comes, it cuts to black, and we don’t know if he comes or not or if he gets shot by the guy in the diner. Nobody else got on board with that. JF: I will say, like when you were just talking about it – to me Cheers and Mary Tyler Moore–  AG: Cheers was a great finale.  JF: Those were two great finales that were funny and were emotional. That has always been our guiding light with Big Mouth. We didn’t really realize when we first started how important the emotionality was going to be. That these were kids with big feelings and everything mattered so much. So I think just that idea–we knew we wanted the end to be emotional, but it was also emotional for us! When we had our final table read and all those kids walked off, everyone was crying. So, I think that also a big part of it, too – being funny, emotional, and that we really wanted to do well by these characters. We wanted to feel like the future was pretty bright for them. AG: Sometimes with finales, shows try to reinvent the wheel. They’ll make the finale its whole own thing. As a fan, I always like a finale that’s just like a really good episode of the show. That was also one of our goals and one of the reasons why we went back to the middle school for the finale because that was the heart of the show. Big Mouth is obviously very silly, but it pushes some really important messages, too. It’s filled with encouraging examples of representation as well. Which storyline or piece of character development are you the most proud of bringing to life here? JF: I just think we all learned so much about human sexuality and human development making this show. I can really say I learned a lot and I feel like we really created something where the things that we learned–we really wanted to tell people about things like female pleasure. I did not think that was a story that I was going to do. Like, I knew there’d be periods. I knew there’d be masturbation, right? But beyond that–going into asexuality and all these things that really came from real students that we spoke to who said, “I don’t feel represented.” That was really interesting and we didn’t really know about that. I think that always interested us in all these different ways. Consent is something – both in the first and the last season – that we really talk about in a specific kind of way. Those were things we learned as the world changed. The world changed so much while we were making the show, so we had to really keep abreast of everything.  And Holly Hunter is Compassion. I really will say that Holly Hunter’s Compassion was a real thrill for all of us.  AG: I agree that the learning experience of making this show has been incredible and the breadth of who we’ve learned from. We had this moment in season one where we did “Girls Are Horny Too,” where we realized–we had read Peggy Orenstein’s book, Girls & Sex, and she had come to the writers’ room to talk to us. One of the things that she writes about is that in sex ed, we teach boys about their boners and ejaculation and girls about menstruation. We don’t teach–we don’t imply to girls as we’re teaching about sex–that they’re supposed to experience pleasure, too. We realized, “Oh my God, our first episode is literally about a boy masturbating and in the second episode a girl gets her period. We did the very thing that we’re not supposed to do. So we course-corrected with the fifth episode of the first season, “Girls Are Horny Too.”  Then, like Jen said, the idea for having an asexual kid was totally born out of how we speak to teenagers every year with their sex ed teacher, Shafia Zaloum, who’s a great sex ed teacher in the Bay Area. That storyline came directly from one of her students being like, “Hey, I’m asexual, and I’d really love to see a character like me on TV.” We were like, “Absolutely.” He actually read scripts for us and gave us his thoughts. It was a really great collaboration. So, we’ve had this amazing experience where we’re learning from experts, but also from teenagers; from kids. The pornography episode from this season is really strong, but it’s also exciting that you’re able to do an episode that helps normalize pornography, break it down, but also explore the more toxic behavior it can reinforce, too. Did this feel like significant subject matter to explore? JF: Well, that’s always how we like to explore any topic: like we’re having a conversation. The first one was about the head push and if it’s okay or if it’s not okay. We were like, “Oh, that’s got to go in the show.” Our kids need to basically be having the same conversation that we’re having. That’s often a way that leads us, but it was actually my daughter who was talking about guys and their relationship with porn. She was like, “It’s really kind of ruined them and it’s such a bummer.” So when we were coming into this last season, I thought that we should explore that. We had done porn in the very first season, but it didn’t get to the heart of the problem.  AG: It was more of an addiction story.  JF: It was more of an addiction story. It wasn’t really a porn story. We really realized–and this was another thing we talked to a lot of people about–just about how porn was becoming sex education and how unfortunate that is and what do we do about it. How do you masturbate again when you’ve gotten used to porn? All those things. It’s not just one thing. It turned out it was a lot of things, all of which play out over three episodes. You really get the chance to realize what’s going on and how it can actually affect your life in all these different ways. AG: We had this really cool experience where–as we were figuring out that story, we always, every season, meet with a group of teenagers via Zoom and really pick their brains and ask them questions. This time, for the first time ever, we split them up between boys and girls because we wanted to hear what the boys had to say and what the girls had to say. It was amazing just the disconnect that seemed to occur where – at least for the groups of kids that we talked to – the boys were kind of like, “We get it. Porn isn’t real. It doesn’t actually affect the way we behave.” While the girls were like, “No.” They did not feel the same way. JF: It was shocking, but true! All that was just so  interesting.  Absolutely, and then to have your characters at an age where they can emulate that behavior, too. I always love when the show will do a bit of a concept episode that does something structurally different, like the penultimate entry that has the whole grab bag of odds and ends formula. I think that’s such a smart way to touch on a bunch of stuff that couldn’t organically be covered in the series. ML: When you’re heading to the end of an experience like this, you realize there’s so much left to say and so much you still want to say. In this case, we reached out through social media to the fans and said, “Hey, what are the things you wish we talked about?” That’s really true, we really did do that.  So, are those real questions, then, from real fans?  ML: Yeah, those topics, they’re all real.  JF: And when we say that there was a ton about queefing, that’s also actually true. We had thousands of responses. We had this vaginismus story and one of the guys on the staff was like, “I don’t like the vaginismus story…” But a lot of people were asking about it so clearly there is interest there! So I wanted to find a way to do that. ML: It all really came from that experience of serving the fans. And we love form-breaker episodes. We love form-breakers, but this was a great one. It was an opportunity, in a grab bag kind of way, to race through all these things that we never got a chance to talk about. These probably would have been episodes or storylines, but maybe they’re even better for the fact that they don’t last for an entire episode. “What’s it like to go to the gynecologist?” That doesn’t need to be a whole episode. These ideas can be their own mini-movies, like the Looney Tunes one. Well, I was going to say exactly that. You dress each one up in a different style, whether it’s The Twilight Zone or the whole Looney Tunes aesthetic. Was this episode more of a challenge to bring together? AG: Yeah, I think that’s always the fun with the form-breakers. I think it’s fun for the fans. It’s fun for us, too, on a creative level. Last year we did the international episode, where we did a show in different languages. We did that Christmas episode with all the different kinds of animation. It’s always so much fun for us, but this one in particular was great because I do think our fans are so invested. They feel so much ownership over the show and we’re happy to share that with them. It was exciting to see all their questions that Maury explores in that episode.  You mentioned before that you don’t like to plan things out, but this season brings closure to the Ponytail Killer after so long, which is super funny to me. I can see this being an idea that just kept getting pushed back during previous seasons, but had you planned to do more with this tangent over the years? Did you know that this was the killer’s identity from the start? JF: And it was! We had tried to do something with the Ponytail Killer a couple of other times, but it just didn’t feel right. This felt good though and we were finally able to pay that one off. ML: At one point, we were talking about doing an interactive “Choose-Your-Own Adventure” episode like Black Mirror’s “Bandersnatch.” There was a minute where everything was going to be interactive! We flirted with the idea of doing a “Choose-Your-Own Adventure” episode where you solve the Ponytail Killer’s murders. We went down that road, but we realized just how much work it would take–it would have been like a whole season’s worth of work just to make all the multiple threads. So we were happy to at least bring closure to it inside this season.  AG: My favorite part of that is when Lola is like, “What? Who cares?” There are Reddit threads out there that have guessed it! There are people that will be very satisfied with this season. JF: One of my favorite Reddit threads is about, “Does Cyrus wear the radish bra?” Eight seasons is a lot of time to spend with these characters, but would you ever want to return to them and this universe, perhaps when they’re adults with kids of their own? Is there a possibility that you might do something like periodic Big Mouth specials in the future or some further extension of the series? ML: Yeah, I mean, we love these kids. We really want to see what happens to them. It’s fun to just let them go off into the void and imagine what would happen, but I’m sure that over time, we’ll miss them and want to revisit them again. Whether it’s the college years or some other thing, you know?  JF: It’s funny, because what happens is before you know exactly when your show is going to end, you’re like, “It’s so hard to find these stories…” But then when you know that you’re going to end, we suddenly had more stories to tell because we moved them to high school. It was ironic, but also kind of lovely, because you always want to leave people wanting more. That’s a great feeling and it’s nice to not feel like we’ve completely exhausted everything. It’s very bittersweet. We’ve had an amazing run here and we were at Netflix at just the right time. I’m not sure if Big Mouth could have existed at any other time. It seems like Big Mouth got to tell its full story, but that this might not have necessarily been the case with Human Resources. Can you talk a little on where else that show had gone if it lasted longer? Were there any ideas for future Human Resources stories that were incorporated into this final season as a way of providing closure? JF: We loved Human Resources. I mean, we just thought that was a great, great show, and such a wonderful universe.  ML: They’re infinite things that could be done there! And you know, there is an episode this season that visits Human Resources again. We really wanted to go back to Human Resources, whether it was in that episode where we had the Keke Palmer and Aidy Bryant characters come back. Rosie Perez’s character, too. The whole cast! We wanted to weave them all into this season to make sure that they were acknowledged as such an important part of the universe. We were fortunate to get to explore all of that in the same show, but just through a flipped perspective. We were seeing it all from the monsters’ point of view, but now we’re back to the kids. But we absolutely loved, loved Human Resources.  Big Mouth has ended, but your new animated series, Mating Season, has been announced. Can you talk at all on how this idea came together, what this show was born out of, and if it will have a similar vibe to Big Mouth or be a different type of animal? ML: The vibe will be similar in some ways, in that, it’s very honest and it deals, frankly, with things that we all deal with. In Big Mouth, it was puberty and that temporary change, but Mating Season is looking kind of into your twenties – your late twenties – when you’re trying to find a mate. You find your person, or hook up, or, you know – have sex, get married, all those things that we struggled with then. JF: What we always found in Big Mouth, when we were trying to depict sex, was that it was better when it had a metaphor behind it. But we realized that you really don’t want to see humans having sex. However, with animals, it’s a lot funnier.  ML: You’re not going to see anything you don’t see in the zoo, or in the forest, or in your backyard. I’m looking forward to it. I appreciated the Animorphs reference this season, so if you can make one of the characters an Animorph–just have one be an animal that is actually a human in disguise. I think that’s a fun approach. ML: That is a good idea. We’re putting it on the list. JF: We’re putting it on the list. Beautiful. That’s all I ask. All eight seasons of Big Mouth are now streaming on Netflix
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