Smitch The Unshakable Resolve of "this guy are sick" Member Apr 21, 2022 4,752 New ‘Marathon’ Info: Bungie Morale, Launch Worries And Changing Plans After a rough playtest and now plagiarism confirmation, Bungie is changing some Marathon plans and internally, things are bad. www.forbes.com Chaos has engulfed Bungie after an artist, ANTIREAL, came forward to accuse Bungie of ripping off her 2017 work as its upcoming extraction shooter Marathon was starting to take shape as early as 2018. Bungie admitted to the plagiarism, supposedly the work of one ex-artist, and promised to make things right, but the story gained traction among gaming outlets and reaction streamers alike, and it's poisoned the previous positive conversation about the aesthetic of the game. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I've spoken to some current and former employees about Bungie's excuse for the art theft, studio morale, the possibility of a delay and some very real changes when it comes to the upcoming presentation and playtesting of the game. Here's what I've learned: The public explanation for the art theft, one ex-employee taking things in 2020, is the same one being given internally at Bungie among the rank and file. Sony and Bungie legal are now sorting through this and there is unlikely to be any much new information as all of this continues to unfold. It is not clear how long an "audit" will take of the assets to remove or find any more plagiarism, as it's an expansive enough process to have Bungie not even show any footage at all in its recent livestream. Morale is in "free-fall" across all departments, and "the vibes have never been worse." Everyone has the same concerns about what happens to Bungie as a studio if Marathon bombs, which is something they absolutely cannot afford. There are not even hints or jokes about a delay from the September release date internally. With that said, it is entirely possible, if not likely, those conversations are happening privately between higher-up Sony and Bungie leadership. It's unclear what the plan is to launch the game in a "now actively hostile environment" just a few months from now, or how to turn that around. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Some changes to future plans had been made even before this new plagiarism development. Mainly as a reaction to gameplay footage and now the Closed Alpha. At the start of this month Bungie pulled the plug on its main Marathon marketing plan which was going to have a new trailer in June along with the launch of pre-orders. The whole campaign needs to be reworked now. A heavily marketed Public Beta in August may be changed into a "roadmap of public playtests" with no actual details set yet. This would align with Bungie's stated multiple opportunities to play before launch, rather than just the upcoming Beta. Marathon was originally pitched by higher-up "good old boy" Bungie leadership and as far back as five years ago devs were telling them what would and wouldn't work and were often ignored. Many have said previously that it needed to have some sort of PvE component. Click to expand... Click to shrink...   Crossing Eden Member Oct 26, 2017 58,458 It's a shame what has happened to Bungie. Since their inception every single one of their titles has had development woes and issues and that shadow has been steadily catching up to them since they left Halo, most especially when it comes to their tech debt and how much of a hinderance that must be for production. It's so strange because when you actually play Bungie games there are often few signs of the dev issues but now it's like, "Hey btw if you get this game you're gonna be pretty lost because they removed the intro campaign."  Last edited: Yesterday at 11:04 AM Maelstrom Member Apr 22, 2025 95 This sucks, for everyone. I hope their studio will be stronger after this.   Red Kong XIX Member Oct 11, 2020 13,234 They probably have to delay it.   maze001 Member Sep 18, 2024 628 Crazy thing is even if they delay 6 months that means Arc Raiders and Tarkov (Steam release) will be out by then and it will put Marathon closer to GTA6 and maybe Fairgames release dates so it may end up even worse for them.   Jagi Member May 6, 2025 43 Whatever it may be, the livestream yesterday made it insanely difficult for Sony and Bungie lawyers to create a narrative of their own. Its all in 4K: the accusation, the admittance, even the trial was online yesterday. If they could've saved face, yesterday stripped them naked of all absolution.  Vourlis Member Aug 14, 2022 5,836 United States Sometimes it's just amazing that anything gets made, ever.   MANTRA Member Feb 21, 2024 1,113 maze001 said: Crazy thing is even if they delay 6 months that means Arc Raiders and Tarkov (Steam release) will be out by then and it will put Marathon closer to GTA6 and maybe Fairgames release dates so it may end up even worse for them. Click to expand... Click to shrink... *If* the delay results in a better product I think thats a worthy trade-off imo. Miyamoto quote etc.   Mini-Me Member Oct 25, 2017 1,126 I genuinely don't know what they do with this. Any delays would need to be significant enough to add and/or re-tool a lot of content to make it more exciting and more than just a basic ass extraction game but then that puts it closer to something like GTA (unless they delay by a year or more which seems unlikely). Not delaying seems like a death sentence. Not delaying and launching it instead as an early access title or something like that also seems futile. The entire thing seems doomed to fail, especially as public sentiment online nowadays is so, so hard to turn around.   Gamer @ Heart Member Oct 26, 2017 11,418 Red Kong XIX said: They probably have to delay it. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Unless they have a magical way of generating hundreds of millions in revenue the rest of the fiscal year, then that means Bungie leadership will likely get pushed out by Sony. They have metrics to meet to stay whatever ridiculous floundering semi independent status they are in. Which is probably a good thing  IDontBeatGames ThreadMarksman - Saved Transistor's sanity twice Member Oct 29, 2017 21,030 New York MANTRA said: *If* the delay results in a better product I think thats a worthy trade-off imo. Miyamoto quote etc. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I don't disagree but I do wonder if this entire fiasco ends up sticking around Marathon like a bad cloud even if it gets delayed a few months, meaning like, I wonder if folks will choose to not actively support it even if the game is delayed a few months and gets fixed due to all of this.   ianpm31 Member Oct 27, 2017 7,397 Probably getting delayed. I don't understand Bungie at all. Just make Destiny 3 along with a single player co op project like the halo days.  Man Called Aerodynamics Member Oct 29, 2017 8,315 Everyone has the same concerns about what happens to Bungie as a studio if Marathon bombs, which is something they absolutely cannot afford. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I just don't understand how a big studio with so much history and talent gets to a place where they're betting the entire farm on this one risky project.  Truant Member Oct 28, 2017 6,914 If they play this right this might be just what this game needs.   maze001 Member Sep 18, 2024 628 Mini-Me said: I genuinely don't know what they do with this. Any delays would need to be significant enough to add and/or re-tool a lot of content to make it more exciting and more than just a basic ass extraction game but then that puts it closer to something like GTA (unless they delay by a year or more which seems unlikely). Not delaying seems like a death sentence. Not delaying and launching it instead as an early access title or something like that also seems futile. The entire thing seems doomed to fail, especially as public sentiment online nowadays is so, so hard to turn around. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Yeah, given a lot of the feedback I've heard it doesn't seem like a September > March delay would give them enough time to spice the game up beyond super basic extraction shooter. They would definitely need more time than that.   Lowrys Member Oct 25, 2017 14,650 London Jagi said: Whatever it may be, the livestream yesterday made it insanely difficult for Sony and Bungie lawyers to create a narrative of their own. Its all in 4K: the accusation, the admittance, even the trial was online yesterday. If they could've saved face, yesterday stripped them naked of all absolution. Click to expand... Click to shrink... What trial?   ElFly Member Oct 27, 2017 3,719 ianpm31 said: Probably getting delayed. I don't understand Bungie at all. Just make Destiny 3 along with a single player co op project like the halo days. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I think the cost of developing Destiny 2 constantly has scared them of single player or PvE elements it's why Marathon is strongly oriented towards PvP, cause making campaigns or tons of maps for one story event or animating NPCs is expensive. Meanwhile people are still playing Counterstrike. They want that level of non production. Maybe they can put new guns into it constantly, that's one thing they've learned to do predictably at Destiny. But that seems to be the level of investment they want to put in.  Mini-Me Member Oct 25, 2017 1,126 maze001 said: Yeah, given a lot of the feedback I've heard it doesn't seem like a Sept > March delay would give them enough time to spice the game up beyond super basic extraction shooter. They would definitely need more time than that. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Yeah I put about 8 hours into the alpha and the game just does not have much of anything going on. It feels akin to something like DMZ in COD or whatever the Battlefield extraction mode was in that it's a mostly fine but very simple extraction mode that's part of a larger package of multiplayer and single player offerings. Except in Marathon's case that's it, that's all they have. I don't think 3 extra months fixes anything. I don't even think 6 months fixes anything.   theSoularian Member Oct 25, 2017 3,942 ianpm31 said: Probably getting delayed. I don't understand Bungie at all. Just make Destiny 3 along with a single player co op project like the halo days. Click to expand... Click to shrink... If only it was that simple. A Destiny 3 would be years away.  Chumunga64 Member Jun 22, 2018 17,133 Sony should have really noticed the red flags when Microsoft, during the time they were buying everyone didn't even entertain the thought of buying the studio that gave them the franchise that prevented the xbox brand from being dead on arrival   wellpapp Member Aug 21, 2018 528 Gothenburg My gut feeling says it's going to bomb in Sony's eyes regardless.   Risev "This guy are sick" Member Oct 27, 2017 3,889 theSoularian said: If only it was that simple. A Destiny 3 would be years away. Click to expand... Click to shrink... If they started right now? It would take 5 years minimum most likely. But the wish would be that they would have started working on a Destiny 3 years ago, just like they did Destiny 2. I just don't understand why they didn't take Destiny through that same few steps. Those were Destiny's best and most successful years.  Zok310 Member Oct 25, 2017 6,019 Gamer @ Heart said: Unless they have a magical way of generating hundreds of millions in revenue the rest of the fiscal year, then that means Bungie leadership will likely get pushed out by Sony. They have metrics to meet to stay whatever ridiculous floundering semi independent status they are in. Which is probably a good thing Click to expand... Click to shrink... They got that covered with the Destiny stans, just drop a "new strike" that we already paid for into D2 and 1 billion dollars overnight.   DieH@rd Member Oct 26, 2017 12,012 Hopefully they'll pull through, D2 is great to play but it's hard to attract new players due to large amount of expansions, vaulting, and complicated UI/progression. I still play it regularly, and the upcoming expansions sound interesting. Marathon looks nice, but I'm mostly solo player...  Dekuman Member Oct 27, 2017 20,993 Sony throwing good money after bad. The whole live service push has been a boondoggle. Wiping off years of PS profits off the books.  Mr.Deadshot Member Oct 27, 2017 23,141 These mega studios need to get a grip. They need to make smaller scale games with a clear vision and focus. They can expand on that. And they fore sure need to steer away from chasing the "forever" game bullshit. Right now it feels like Marathon will be delayed for 6-12 months and then bomb anyway. It would be nice if Bungie could salvage the art and make a true Marathon 4 but we all know that won't happen in nowadays industry.  Audiblee Member Mar 14, 2025 1,461 It was in trouble before the theft was discovered. Reaction to the alpha was mid at best.   Smokey Member Oct 25, 2017 4,471 Chumunga64 said: Sony should have really noticed the red flags when Microsoft, during the time they were buying everyone didn't even entertain the thought of buying the studio that gave them the franchise that prevented the xbox brand from being dead on arrival Click to expand... Click to shrink... They did entertain it though. The only reason they didn't is because Bungie wanted to "independently publish and creatively develop our games", which MS wasn't willing to do iirc  GameAddict411 Member Oct 26, 2017 10,093 I just don't see a happy ending for the studio and the victims in the end will be all the devs. We all know all the shitty executives will get golden parachutes.   super-famicom Avenger Oct 26, 2017 30,483 Man Called Aerodynamics said: I just don't understand how a big studio with so much history and talent gets to a place where they're betting the entire farm on this one risky project. Click to expand... Click to shrink... It's not the same Bungie that existed 15+ years ago. Upper management changed, along with what they valued and wanted to focus on. Other employees changed too.  Sydle Member Oct 27, 2017 4,576 It's crazy to me that they didn't start on Destiny 3. If the formula was tuned a bit, I feel like it has an incredibly high shot of being another cash cow. Chumunga64 said: Sony should have really noticed the red flags when Microsoft, during the time they were buying everyone didn't even entertain the thought of buying the studio that gave them the franchise that prevented the xbox brand from being dead on arrival Click to expand... Click to shrink... Isn't the rumor that Microsoft was in talks, but thought the asking price was too high? With the Xbox division's increasing focus on their studios having to each be financially healthy I'm not sure Bungie would have been better off at MS. AAA development is so insanely expensive now that it demands to be run like any other business with a ton of cash at stake. Ultimately, it seems like Bungie leadership needs a shakeup.  Jarmel The Jackrabbit Always Wins Member Oct 25, 2017 22,658 New York Mini-Me said: Yeah I put about 8 hours into the alpha and the game just does not have much of anything going on. It feels akin to something like DMZ in COD or whatever the Battlefield extraction mode was in that it's a mostly fine but very simple extraction mode that's part of a larger package of multiplayer and single player offerings. Except in Marathon's case that's it, that's all they have. I don't think 3 extra months fixes anything. I don't even think 6 months fixes anything. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I'm thinking full year delay.   Billfisto Member Oct 30, 2017 17,859 Canada I'm livid that they tacked the Marathon name onto this for basically no reason and now it's absolutely poisoning it. We're never going to get a "proper" Marathon sequel because this entire ill-advised excursion has made the name so toxic that they'll never be able to justify using it again to the money people, even if they wanted to.  Tobor Died as he lived: wrong about Doritos Member Oct 25, 2017 34,006 A new actual Marathon game, or even a full remake, would have been a big deal and had lots of people talking about Bungie being back. But no, let's do an extraction shooter.  Killer Member Oct 27, 2017 2,961 Bungie's fate hang on Marathon. That really grim. People from the other thread said if it bombed Bungie will be fine   Kyuuji The Favonius Fox Member Nov 8, 2017 38,287 Whole situation is shit. It was troubling enough following the feedback from the alpha but art theft at the scale found, in a game sold and hyped on its aesthetic, is a disaster. I don't know how you get back to good will on that, let alone in 4 months. Obviously it has to start with making the situation with Antireal right, but past that it still feels like a mammoth task with where general sentiment is at after it all. This is as someone who loved the alpha and was completely sold on the game. I still can't get my head around not having had Destiny 3 being developed in the background to baton-pass to following the conclusion of The Final Shape.  DieH@rd Member Oct 26, 2017 12,012 Sydle said: It's crazy to me that they didn't start on Destiny 3. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Destiny 2 was a mandate from Activision, but IMO, that was just just another in a row of expansions. I don't think D3 is coming, but they need better way to onboard new players.  Steamy Manatee ▲ Legend ▲ Member Oct 18, 2022 2,949 Bungie's legal team is in deep trouble to say the least. They will have to audit every single texture in the game in probably less than two weeks while getting absolutely railed by Sony management who will intervene and reprimand them. Direction at Bungie should definitely use this is a (great) excuse to delay the game. But also if the marketing plan is being reworked from scratch mid-May, I think this means the game is definitely getting delayed. Either way, I feel so bad for the team. I know the feeling of working on something you just know it's not going to work out well. The odds of success were stacked against them, now it feels like it is almost impossible unless they delay to Q1 2026 before GTA VI  Last edited: Yesterday at 11:35 AM 03-AALIYAH Member Jul 21, 2023 1,367 ianpm31 said: I don't understand Bungie at all. Just make Destiny 3 along with a single player co op project like the halo days. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Not an expert, but I don't understand why they didn't choose to pursue that option years ago as Destiny seems to still have a large fanbase ?   DrScruffleton Member Oct 26, 2017 14,856 How do you release, let alone on time, after the art situation? Just try to pay off the artist as quickly as possible?   artsi Member Oct 26, 2017 3,368 Finland I hope I'm wrong but my feeling is that Bungie is done already. This game will be the final nail in the coffin.   Mifec Member Oct 25, 2017 19,347 Smokey said: They did entertain it though. The only reason they didn't is because Bungie wanted to "independently publish and creatively develop our games", which MS wasn't willing to do iirc Click to expand... Click to shrink... They would only pay 2bil max and wanted exclusivity was the rumor yeah. Well once this flops and they're reassigned there goes the exclusivity too.  ElFly Member Oct 27, 2017 3,719 Killer said: Bungie's fate hang on Marathon. That really grim. People from the other thread said if it bombed Bungie will be fine Click to expand... Click to shrink... to be fair, they always say this to make the employees work extra hours and then they fire them anyway  Bardeh Member Jun 15, 2018 3,827 I'm amazed that a studio the size and pedigree of Bungie, after 5+ years of development, isn't more confident in the direction of this project. The bones and foundation should be absolutely rock solid by now. They should be immutable. These final months should be 'betas' that are stress tests and marketing tools (like ARC Raiders recent test was, to huge success) to build up to release as final tweaks and bugfixes are made. Instead the feedback from the Alpha seems to have shaken them and thrown things into disarray, even before the plagiarism shitshow made things even worse. It really looks like the whole project has been absolutely terribly managed, and a whole lot of money and time spent on something that still doesn't quite know what it wants to be. Things aren't looking good.  Man Called Aerodynamics Member Oct 29, 2017 8,315 Jarmel said: I'm thinking full year delay. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Perfect, it can release once Arc Raiders is already well entrenched.   Mini-Me Member Oct 25, 2017 1,126 Jarmel said: I'm thinking full year delay. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Mhm, they need a lot of time to get away from the discourse and add in a ton of extra content. But a year is a massive delay and I doubt it gets that   Lampa Member Feb 13, 2018 4,003 I dunno, I don't think they can delay it. They probably should, but at some point a product has to come out from Bungie and we know they have a lot of them in development, They have to start making money, Destiny certainly won't be carrying all those projects in development anymore.   Jarmel The Jackrabbit Always Wins Member Oct 25, 2017 22,658 New York Man Called Aerodynamics said: Perfect, it can release once Arc Raiders is already well entrenched. Click to expand... Click to shrink... If they can't outshine Arc Raiders then they were cooked anyway. It's not like they're first to market regardless and Tarkov is the market leader. Mini-Me said: Mhm, they need a lot of time to get away from the discourse and add in a ton of extra content. But a year is a massive delay and I doubt it gets that Click to expand... Click to shrink... 6 months pushes it right into GTA. 9 is possibly but GTA Online might be really ramping around then. It's not how much time the game needs but GTA looming in the background.   Lampa Member Feb 13, 2018 4,003 Bardeh said: I'm amazed that a studio the size and pedigree of Bungie, after 5+ years of development, isn't more confident in the direction of this project Click to expand... Click to shrink... It was rebooted last year or so, when they replaced the director and some other top people on the project.   IMCaprica Member Aug 1, 2019 10,982 Should we have taken it as a sign that the project that was reported on as being the studio's favorite (Gummy Bears) was the one that got that team spun-out into their own PlayStation studio away from Bungie? Billfisto said: I'm livid that they tacked the Marathon name onto this for basically no reason and now it's absolutely poisoning it. We're never going to get a "proper" Marathon sequel because this entire ill-advised excursion has made the name so toxic that they'll never be able to justify using it again to the money people, even if they wanted to. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Tobor said: A new actual Marathon game, or even a full remake, would have been a big deal and had lots of people talking about Bungie being back. But no, let's do an extraction shooter. Click to expand... Click to shrink... What would honest expectations for that game be, given that Bungie as a studio hasn't made a game like that in 15 years?