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  • Could Iran Have Been Close to Making a Nuclear Weapon? Uranium Enrichment Explained

    June 13, 20253 min readCould Iran Have Been Close to Making a Nuclear Weapon? Uranium Enrichment ExplainedWhen Israeli aircraft recently struck a uranium-enrichment complex in the nation, Iran could have been days away from achieving “breakout,” the ability to quickly turn “yellowcake” uranium into bomb-grade fuel, with its new high-speed centrifugesBy Deni Ellis Béchard edited by Dean VisserMen work inside of a uranium conversion facility just outside the city of Isfahan, Iran, on March 30, 2005. The facility in Isfahan made hexaflouride gas, which was then enriched by feeding it into centrifuges at a facility in Natanz, Iran. Getty ImagesIn the predawn darkness on Friday local time, Israeli military aircraft struck one of Iran’s uranium-enrichment complexes near the city of Natanz. The warheads aimed to do more than shatter concrete; they were meant to buy time, according to news reports. For months, Iran had seemed to be edging ever closer to “breakout,” the point at which its growing stockpile of partially enriched uranium could be converted into fuel for a nuclear bomb.But why did the strike occur now? One consideration could involve the way enrichment complexes work. Natural uranium is composed almost entirely of uranium 238, or U-238, an isotope that is relatively “heavy”. Only about 0.7 percent is uranium 235, a lighter isotope that is capable of sustaining a nuclear chain reaction. That means that in natural uranium, only seven atoms in 1,000 are the lighter, fission-ready U-235; “enrichment” simply means raising the percentage of U-235.U-235 can be used in warheads because its nucleus can easily be split. The International Atomic Energy Agency uses 25 kilograms of contained U-235 as the benchmark amount deemed sufficient for a first-generation implosion bomb. In such a weapon, the U-235 is surrounded by conventional explosives that, when detonated, compress the isotope. A separate device releases a neutron stream.Each time a neutron strikes a U-235 atom, the atom fissions; it divides and spits out, on average, two or three fresh neutrons—plus a burst of energy in the form of heat and gamma radiation. And the emitted neutrons in turn strike other U-235 nuclei, creating a self-sustaining chain reaction among the U-235 atoms that have been packed together into a critical mass. The result is a nuclear explosion. By contrast, the more common isotope, U-238, usually absorbs slow neutrons without splitting and cannot drive such a devastating chain reaction.On supporting science journalismIf you're enjoying this article, consider supporting our award-winning journalism by subscribing. By purchasing a subscription you are helping to ensure the future of impactful stories about the discoveries and ideas shaping our world today.To enrich uranium so that it contains enough U-235, the “yellowcake” uranium powder that comes out of a mine must go through a lengthy process of conversions to transform it from a solid into the gas uranium hexafluoride. First, a series of chemical processes refine the uranium and then, at high temperatures, each uranium atom is bound to six fluorine atoms. The result, uranium hexafluoride, is unusual: below 56 degrees Celsiusit is a white, waxy solid, but just above that temperature, it sublimates into a dense, invisible gas.During enrichment, this uranium hexafluoride is loaded into a centrifuge: a metal cylinder that spins at tens of thousands of revolutions per minute—faster than the blades of a jet engine. As the heavier U-238 molecules drift toward the cylinder wall, the lighter U-235 molecules remain closer to the center and are siphoned off. This new, slightly U-235-richer gas is then put into the next centrifuge. The process is repeated 10 to 20 times as ever more enriched gas is sent through a series of centrifuges.Enrichment is a slow process, but the Iranian government has been working on this for years and already holds roughly 400 kilograms of uranium enriched to 60 percent U-235. This falls short of the 90 percent required for nuclear weapons. But whereas Iran’s first-generation IR-1 centrifuges whirl at about 63,000 revolutions per minute and do relatively modest work, its newer IR-6 models, built from high-strength carbon fiber, spin faster and produce enriched uranium far more quickly.Iran has been installing thousands of these units, especially at Fordow, an underground enrichment facility built beneath 80 to 90 meters of rock. According to a report released on Monday by the Institute for Science and International Security, the new centrifuges could produce enough 90 percent U-235 uranium for a warhead “in as little as two to three days” and enough for nine nuclear weapons in three weeks—or 19 by the end of the third month.
    #could #iran #have #been #close
    Could Iran Have Been Close to Making a Nuclear Weapon? Uranium Enrichment Explained
    June 13, 20253 min readCould Iran Have Been Close to Making a Nuclear Weapon? Uranium Enrichment ExplainedWhen Israeli aircraft recently struck a uranium-enrichment complex in the nation, Iran could have been days away from achieving “breakout,” the ability to quickly turn “yellowcake” uranium into bomb-grade fuel, with its new high-speed centrifugesBy Deni Ellis Béchard edited by Dean VisserMen work inside of a uranium conversion facility just outside the city of Isfahan, Iran, on March 30, 2005. The facility in Isfahan made hexaflouride gas, which was then enriched by feeding it into centrifuges at a facility in Natanz, Iran. Getty ImagesIn the predawn darkness on Friday local time, Israeli military aircraft struck one of Iran’s uranium-enrichment complexes near the city of Natanz. The warheads aimed to do more than shatter concrete; they were meant to buy time, according to news reports. For months, Iran had seemed to be edging ever closer to “breakout,” the point at which its growing stockpile of partially enriched uranium could be converted into fuel for a nuclear bomb.But why did the strike occur now? One consideration could involve the way enrichment complexes work. Natural uranium is composed almost entirely of uranium 238, or U-238, an isotope that is relatively “heavy”. Only about 0.7 percent is uranium 235, a lighter isotope that is capable of sustaining a nuclear chain reaction. That means that in natural uranium, only seven atoms in 1,000 are the lighter, fission-ready U-235; “enrichment” simply means raising the percentage of U-235.U-235 can be used in warheads because its nucleus can easily be split. The International Atomic Energy Agency uses 25 kilograms of contained U-235 as the benchmark amount deemed sufficient for a first-generation implosion bomb. In such a weapon, the U-235 is surrounded by conventional explosives that, when detonated, compress the isotope. A separate device releases a neutron stream.Each time a neutron strikes a U-235 atom, the atom fissions; it divides and spits out, on average, two or three fresh neutrons—plus a burst of energy in the form of heat and gamma radiation. And the emitted neutrons in turn strike other U-235 nuclei, creating a self-sustaining chain reaction among the U-235 atoms that have been packed together into a critical mass. The result is a nuclear explosion. By contrast, the more common isotope, U-238, usually absorbs slow neutrons without splitting and cannot drive such a devastating chain reaction.On supporting science journalismIf you're enjoying this article, consider supporting our award-winning journalism by subscribing. By purchasing a subscription you are helping to ensure the future of impactful stories about the discoveries and ideas shaping our world today.To enrich uranium so that it contains enough U-235, the “yellowcake” uranium powder that comes out of a mine must go through a lengthy process of conversions to transform it from a solid into the gas uranium hexafluoride. First, a series of chemical processes refine the uranium and then, at high temperatures, each uranium atom is bound to six fluorine atoms. The result, uranium hexafluoride, is unusual: below 56 degrees Celsiusit is a white, waxy solid, but just above that temperature, it sublimates into a dense, invisible gas.During enrichment, this uranium hexafluoride is loaded into a centrifuge: a metal cylinder that spins at tens of thousands of revolutions per minute—faster than the blades of a jet engine. As the heavier U-238 molecules drift toward the cylinder wall, the lighter U-235 molecules remain closer to the center and are siphoned off. This new, slightly U-235-richer gas is then put into the next centrifuge. The process is repeated 10 to 20 times as ever more enriched gas is sent through a series of centrifuges.Enrichment is a slow process, but the Iranian government has been working on this for years and already holds roughly 400 kilograms of uranium enriched to 60 percent U-235. This falls short of the 90 percent required for nuclear weapons. But whereas Iran’s first-generation IR-1 centrifuges whirl at about 63,000 revolutions per minute and do relatively modest work, its newer IR-6 models, built from high-strength carbon fiber, spin faster and produce enriched uranium far more quickly.Iran has been installing thousands of these units, especially at Fordow, an underground enrichment facility built beneath 80 to 90 meters of rock. According to a report released on Monday by the Institute for Science and International Security, the new centrifuges could produce enough 90 percent U-235 uranium for a warhead “in as little as two to three days” and enough for nine nuclear weapons in three weeks—or 19 by the end of the third month. #could #iran #have #been #close
    Could Iran Have Been Close to Making a Nuclear Weapon? Uranium Enrichment Explained
    www.scientificamerican.com
    June 13, 20253 min readCould Iran Have Been Close to Making a Nuclear Weapon? Uranium Enrichment ExplainedWhen Israeli aircraft recently struck a uranium-enrichment complex in the nation, Iran could have been days away from achieving “breakout,” the ability to quickly turn “yellowcake” uranium into bomb-grade fuel, with its new high-speed centrifugesBy Deni Ellis Béchard edited by Dean VisserMen work inside of a uranium conversion facility just outside the city of Isfahan, Iran, on March 30, 2005. The facility in Isfahan made hexaflouride gas, which was then enriched by feeding it into centrifuges at a facility in Natanz, Iran. Getty ImagesIn the predawn darkness on Friday local time, Israeli military aircraft struck one of Iran’s uranium-enrichment complexes near the city of Natanz. The warheads aimed to do more than shatter concrete; they were meant to buy time, according to news reports. For months, Iran had seemed to be edging ever closer to “breakout,” the point at which its growing stockpile of partially enriched uranium could be converted into fuel for a nuclear bomb. (Iran has denied that it has been pursuing nuclear weapons development.)But why did the strike occur now? One consideration could involve the way enrichment complexes work. Natural uranium is composed almost entirely of uranium 238, or U-238, an isotope that is relatively “heavy” (meaning it has more neutrons in its nucleus). Only about 0.7 percent is uranium 235 (U-235), a lighter isotope that is capable of sustaining a nuclear chain reaction. That means that in natural uranium, only seven atoms in 1,000 are the lighter, fission-ready U-235; “enrichment” simply means raising the percentage of U-235.U-235 can be used in warheads because its nucleus can easily be split. The International Atomic Energy Agency uses 25 kilograms of contained U-235 as the benchmark amount deemed sufficient for a first-generation implosion bomb. In such a weapon, the U-235 is surrounded by conventional explosives that, when detonated, compress the isotope. A separate device releases a neutron stream. (Neutrons are the neutral subatomic particle in an atom’s nucleus that adds to their mass.) Each time a neutron strikes a U-235 atom, the atom fissions; it divides and spits out, on average, two or three fresh neutrons—plus a burst of energy in the form of heat and gamma radiation. And the emitted neutrons in turn strike other U-235 nuclei, creating a self-sustaining chain reaction among the U-235 atoms that have been packed together into a critical mass. The result is a nuclear explosion. By contrast, the more common isotope, U-238, usually absorbs slow neutrons without splitting and cannot drive such a devastating chain reaction.On supporting science journalismIf you're enjoying this article, consider supporting our award-winning journalism by subscribing. By purchasing a subscription you are helping to ensure the future of impactful stories about the discoveries and ideas shaping our world today.To enrich uranium so that it contains enough U-235, the “yellowcake” uranium powder that comes out of a mine must go through a lengthy process of conversions to transform it from a solid into the gas uranium hexafluoride. First, a series of chemical processes refine the uranium and then, at high temperatures, each uranium atom is bound to six fluorine atoms. The result, uranium hexafluoride, is unusual: below 56 degrees Celsius (132.8 degrees Fahrenheit) it is a white, waxy solid, but just above that temperature, it sublimates into a dense, invisible gas.During enrichment, this uranium hexafluoride is loaded into a centrifuge: a metal cylinder that spins at tens of thousands of revolutions per minute—faster than the blades of a jet engine. As the heavier U-238 molecules drift toward the cylinder wall, the lighter U-235 molecules remain closer to the center and are siphoned off. This new, slightly U-235-richer gas is then put into the next centrifuge. The process is repeated 10 to 20 times as ever more enriched gas is sent through a series of centrifuges.Enrichment is a slow process, but the Iranian government has been working on this for years and already holds roughly 400 kilograms of uranium enriched to 60 percent U-235. This falls short of the 90 percent required for nuclear weapons. But whereas Iran’s first-generation IR-1 centrifuges whirl at about 63,000 revolutions per minute and do relatively modest work, its newer IR-6 models, built from high-strength carbon fiber, spin faster and produce enriched uranium far more quickly.Iran has been installing thousands of these units, especially at Fordow, an underground enrichment facility built beneath 80 to 90 meters of rock. According to a report released on Monday by the Institute for Science and International Security, the new centrifuges could produce enough 90 percent U-235 uranium for a warhead “in as little as two to three days” and enough for nine nuclear weapons in three weeks—or 19 by the end of the third month.
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  • Scientists Spot Mysterious Object in Our Galaxy Pulsing Every 44 Minutes

    Astronomers have spotted something strange and spectacular: a mysterious object that keeps emitting pulses every 44 minutes.In a press release from Australia's Curtin University, which was part of the international team that detected the object just 15,000 light-years away in our Milky Way galaxy, astronomers explained that the find was all the more stunning because the signal is coming in the form of both X-rays and radio waves.The object, which was named ASKAP J1832-0911 after Australia's ASKAP radio telescope that was used to detect it, was discovered emitting two-minute-long pulses that would pause and then repeat 44 minutes later. As the Curtin press release explains, the researchers lucked out when they realized that NASA’s Chandra X-ray Observatory was observing the same part of the sky and detected the same repeating signal in X-ray form.This dual-natured pulse belongs to a newly-discovered class of space phenomena known as "long-period radio transients," or LPTs for short.Discovered in 2022 by the International Centre for Radio Astronomy Research — which also sponsored this latest study — these mystery pulses have unknown origins and occur in fixed intervals of minutes or hours. They're considered by astronomers to be remarkably slow as compared to the signals emitted by pulsars, those rapidly-rotating stars that send out similar bursts every few milliseconds when their poles point in Earth's direction.In the years since they were first discovered, astronomers around the world have only detected some 10 other LPTs — but before now, none have been run through X-ray telescopes as well.According to Ziteng "Andy" Wang, an ICRAR-affiliated Curtin astronomer and the lead author a paper about the finding that was just published in the journal Nature, discovering the dual nature of LPTs in such a coincidental manner "felt like finding a needle in a haystack.""The ASKAP radio telescope has a wide field view of the night sky, while Chandra observes only a fraction of it," Wang explained in the Curtin press release. "So, it was fortunate that Chandra observed the same area of the night sky at the same time."Because LPTs are such a new phenomenon to astronomers, they can't say for sure what causes them.When the first of them were discovered, astronomers posited that they could be coming from magnetars, a type of neutron star with extremely strong magnetic fields that also emit radio pulses at faster intervals, leading to the ICRAR team positing that they may have an "ultra-long-period magnetar" on their hands.While the magnetar theory appears to have been scrapped, the astronomers behind this update in LPT knowledge are hopeful that it will help them figure out what these strange, slow pulses are about."This object is unlike anything we have seen before," said Wang.Share This Article
    #scientists #spot #mysterious #object #our
    Scientists Spot Mysterious Object in Our Galaxy Pulsing Every 44 Minutes
    Astronomers have spotted something strange and spectacular: a mysterious object that keeps emitting pulses every 44 minutes.In a press release from Australia's Curtin University, which was part of the international team that detected the object just 15,000 light-years away in our Milky Way galaxy, astronomers explained that the find was all the more stunning because the signal is coming in the form of both X-rays and radio waves.The object, which was named ASKAP J1832-0911 after Australia's ASKAP radio telescope that was used to detect it, was discovered emitting two-minute-long pulses that would pause and then repeat 44 minutes later. As the Curtin press release explains, the researchers lucked out when they realized that NASA’s Chandra X-ray Observatory was observing the same part of the sky and detected the same repeating signal in X-ray form.This dual-natured pulse belongs to a newly-discovered class of space phenomena known as "long-period radio transients," or LPTs for short.Discovered in 2022 by the International Centre for Radio Astronomy Research — which also sponsored this latest study — these mystery pulses have unknown origins and occur in fixed intervals of minutes or hours. They're considered by astronomers to be remarkably slow as compared to the signals emitted by pulsars, those rapidly-rotating stars that send out similar bursts every few milliseconds when their poles point in Earth's direction.In the years since they were first discovered, astronomers around the world have only detected some 10 other LPTs — but before now, none have been run through X-ray telescopes as well.According to Ziteng "Andy" Wang, an ICRAR-affiliated Curtin astronomer and the lead author a paper about the finding that was just published in the journal Nature, discovering the dual nature of LPTs in such a coincidental manner "felt like finding a needle in a haystack.""The ASKAP radio telescope has a wide field view of the night sky, while Chandra observes only a fraction of it," Wang explained in the Curtin press release. "So, it was fortunate that Chandra observed the same area of the night sky at the same time."Because LPTs are such a new phenomenon to astronomers, they can't say for sure what causes them.When the first of them were discovered, astronomers posited that they could be coming from magnetars, a type of neutron star with extremely strong magnetic fields that also emit radio pulses at faster intervals, leading to the ICRAR team positing that they may have an "ultra-long-period magnetar" on their hands.While the magnetar theory appears to have been scrapped, the astronomers behind this update in LPT knowledge are hopeful that it will help them figure out what these strange, slow pulses are about."This object is unlike anything we have seen before," said Wang.Share This Article #scientists #spot #mysterious #object #our
    Scientists Spot Mysterious Object in Our Galaxy Pulsing Every 44 Minutes
    futurism.com
    Astronomers have spotted something strange and spectacular: a mysterious object that keeps emitting pulses every 44 minutes.In a press release from Australia's Curtin University, which was part of the international team that detected the object just 15,000 light-years away in our Milky Way galaxy, astronomers explained that the find was all the more stunning because the signal is coming in the form of both X-rays and radio waves.The object, which was named ASKAP J1832-0911 after Australia's ASKAP radio telescope that was used to detect it, was discovered emitting two-minute-long pulses that would pause and then repeat 44 minutes later. As the Curtin press release explains, the researchers lucked out when they realized that NASA’s Chandra X-ray Observatory was observing the same part of the sky and detected the same repeating signal in X-ray form.This dual-natured pulse belongs to a newly-discovered class of space phenomena known as "long-period radio transients," or LPTs for short.Discovered in 2022 by the International Centre for Radio Astronomy Research — which also sponsored this latest study — these mystery pulses have unknown origins and occur in fixed intervals of minutes or hours. They're considered by astronomers to be remarkably slow as compared to the signals emitted by pulsars, those rapidly-rotating stars that send out similar bursts every few milliseconds when their poles point in Earth's direction.In the years since they were first discovered, astronomers around the world have only detected some 10 other LPTs — but before now, none have been run through X-ray telescopes as well.According to Ziteng "Andy" Wang, an ICRAR-affiliated Curtin astronomer and the lead author a paper about the finding that was just published in the journal Nature, discovering the dual nature of LPTs in such a coincidental manner "felt like finding a needle in a haystack.""The ASKAP radio telescope has a wide field view of the night sky, while Chandra observes only a fraction of it," Wang explained in the Curtin press release. "So, it was fortunate that Chandra observed the same area of the night sky at the same time."Because LPTs are such a new phenomenon to astronomers, they can't say for sure what causes them.When the first of them were discovered, astronomers posited that they could be coming from magnetars, a type of neutron star with extremely strong magnetic fields that also emit radio pulses at faster intervals, leading to the ICRAR team positing that they may have an "ultra-long-period magnetar" on their hands.While the magnetar theory appears to have been scrapped, the astronomers behind this update in LPT knowledge are hopeful that it will help them figure out what these strange, slow pulses are about."This object is unlike anything we have seen before," said Wang.Share This Article
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  • Infamous 'neutron lifetime puzzle' may finally have a solution — but it involves invisible atoms

    A type of hydrogen that doesn't interact with light could explain how long neutrons live and reveal the identity of the universe's dark matter, according to a new theory.
    #infamous #039neutron #lifetime #puzzle039 #finally
    Infamous 'neutron lifetime puzzle' may finally have a solution — but it involves invisible atoms
    A type of hydrogen that doesn't interact with light could explain how long neutrons live and reveal the identity of the universe's dark matter, according to a new theory. #infamous #039neutron #lifetime #puzzle039 #finally
    Infamous 'neutron lifetime puzzle' may finally have a solution — but it involves invisible atoms
    www.livescience.com
    A type of hydrogen that doesn't interact with light could explain how long neutrons live and reveal the identity of the universe's dark matter, according to a new theory.
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  • The Milky Way Has a Mysterious ‘Broken Bone’

    Galactic bones, filaments of radio-wave-emitting particles, run through our galaxy, and one of them has a fracture. New analysis suggests collision with a neutron star may have caused it.
    #milky #way #has #mysterious #broken
    The Milky Way Has a Mysterious ‘Broken Bone’
    Galactic bones, filaments of radio-wave-emitting particles, run through our galaxy, and one of them has a fracture. New analysis suggests collision with a neutron star may have caused it. #milky #way #has #mysterious #broken
    The Milky Way Has a Mysterious ‘Broken Bone’
    www.wired.com
    Galactic bones, filaments of radio-wave-emitting particles, run through our galaxy, and one of them has a fracture. New analysis suggests collision with a neutron star may have caused it.
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  • Anyone else actually ENJOY the convoluted Zelda timeline?

    poptire
    Avatar Wrecking Crew
    The Fallen

    Oct 25, 2017

    15,552

    I was listening to Brian Shea's Zelda series recap podcast and thought dang, I really like this.

    I remember the split timeline being a big point of contention when Nintendo first announced it. And the second split into a THIRD timeline was also fun to witness.

    It makes sense to me that Ocarina was such a pivotal moment in time that it could spawn multiple possible realities. Shea said something like is there a timeline where a simple bokoblin killed Link? Probably! I'd love to see that timeline.

    I hope they make it even more crazy. I haven't seen where Echoes of Wisdom lives, but I hope it's super weird.

    Also! Apparently the Ganon at the end of Wind Waker is gone-gone. What a cool way to go. Probably my favorite ending of any Zelda game.

    Anyway I sure would like to read y'alls thoughts on whether the split timelines are good or not, and of course thoughts on the timelines themselves 

    blueredandgold
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    8,679

    Quick question off the top - that image was only ever sighted at PAX Aus correct?
     

    OP

    OP

    poptire
    Avatar Wrecking Crew
    The Fallen

    Oct 25, 2017

    15,552

    blueredandgold said:

    Quick question off the top - that image was only ever sighted at PAX Aus correct?

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    As far as I know, yeah. I'm not sure if it's official official.
     

    Stencil
    Mailing His Own Damn Business
    Member

    Oct 30, 2017

    13,549

    USA

    There was ONE brief moment where I sort of bothered to think about it -- hard enough to mentally map each game I'd played into it -- and it amounted to an entire "Huh, that's kind of neat" and I immediately moved on and never thought about it again. I don't think Nintendo even really cares that much about it, therefore it's not a topic of discussion I ever engage in.

    I feel like it's such an obvious afterthought. If the creators don't care why would I? 

    StephenNotStrange
    Member

    Jan 16, 2019

    784

    blueredandgold said:

    Quick question off the top - that image was only ever sighted at PAX Aus correct?

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Yeah, but a very similar one which show where BotW and TotK is already on the Zelda's JP website long ago. 

    Sandstar
    Member

    Oct 28, 2017

    8,165

    I guess the part I don't like is that the original legend of zelda is from the "bad" timeline.
     

    Walpurgisnacht
    Member

    May 7, 2020

    1,724

    I think the only people that get super passionate and heated and can never shut up about it are timeline-haters.

    Aside from that it's fine. It's something Miyamoto and Aonuma have been alluding to in interviews since the 90's. 

    Cheesy
    Member

    Oct 30, 2017

    2,565

    I feel like it doesn't really add anything and I honestly forget it exists most of the time.
     

    OP

    OP

    poptire
    Avatar Wrecking Crew
    The Fallen

    Oct 25, 2017

    15,552

    Has anyone read the manga series? Does it go into timeline split shenanigans?
     

    RagnarokX
    Member

    Oct 26, 2017

    17,710

    I wouldn't call it convoluted. Before BotW only like 3 games didn't fit nicely. I never got why people act like you have to put effort to understand it and got so heated at anyone discussing it. What we had before is certainly preferable to the irreverent JJ Abrams mystery box style they're going for now with BotW where they can't even keep things coherent between direct sequels.
     

    EllipsisBreak
    One Winged Slayer
    Member

    Aug 6, 2019

    2,274

    poptire said:

    Has anyone read the manga series? Does it go into timeline split shenanigans?

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    I'm no expert, but I've seen some images of the Twilight Princess one and it's definitely a factor there.
     

    Zyrokai
    Member

    Nov 1, 2017

    5,214

    Columbus, Ohio

    I love it.
     

    PAFenix
    Unshakable Resolve
    Member

    Nov 21, 2019

    20,137

    I love it!

    poptire said:

    Has anyone read the manga series? Does it go into timeline split shenanigans?

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    The bits I read of the old manga kinda goes into each game as it's own separate one-off or story. But most of those were, at the most, 2 volumes.

    Dunno about the Twilight Princess manga, since that actually goes up to ELEVEN. I wouldn't be surprised if it does make hints towards it, because of the Hero Shade. 

    Tom Nook Says...
    Member

    Jan 15, 2019

    7,406

    The fact that Nintendo themselves don't care a whole lot about it is what makes it fun. The holes and loose connections are where the theorizing happens. If it was overly-detailed and concrete there wouldn't be much to talk about.
     

    The Adder
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    20,609

    It's legitimately fun to talk about and piece together. Especially when you think of it from the perspective that Nintendo themselves don't make games based on where they want to fill in the timeline, but make the game they want and then figure out what to do about placement. That makes theorizing so much more fun because it could still be liquid even after release.
     

    Angst
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    4,306

    I think it sucks and choose to ignore it.
     

    OP

    OP

    poptire
    Avatar Wrecking Crew
    The Fallen

    Oct 25, 2017

    15,552

    EllipsisBreak said:

    I'm no expert, but I've seen some images of the Twilight Princess one and it's definitely a factor there.

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    PAFenix said:

    I love it!

    The bits I read of the old manga kinda goes into each game as it's own separate one-off or story. But most of those were, at the most, 2 volumes.

    Dunno about the Twilight Princess manga, since that actually goes up to ELEVEN. I wouldn't be surprised if it does make hints towards it, because of the Hero Shade.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    The Hero Shade stuff is super interesting to me. That's Adult Link from OoT, right? Except he's all messed up and battle scarred. I'd like to see that story
     

    Rockodile
    Member

    Dec 7, 2018

    1,256

    I think it's pretty fun, and it's easy to ignore if you don't care. Don't understand why some people get so pissed off about it.
     

    SupersonicHypertonic
    Member

    Apr 20, 2022

    3,530

    Yeah I really like it in theory but over the years it's it's kinda just there and Nintendo didn't utilise it properly.

    There's 3 lines but in practice there's very little actual reasons to games within the same line. MM and TP are in the same line but there's very little convergence for them, the hero shade was never confirmed in game to be the hero time and even after it was in Historia it still doesn't explain what happened to Link after MM. For all we know he had another adventure in Disney world in between lol. In the downfall line a lot of the games repeat the same story of Ganon being resurrected in the same as if no one learns the lesson to fully kill him for good. I wish games had stronger connections to one another without needing direct sequels.

    My biggest peeve is Nintendo tried to be clever with the creation of downfall timeline but they fucked everything up instead. If a time like can be created because Link dies then literally EVERY SINGLE GAME has at least 2 endings - Link lives and saves the world continuing the same line or Link dies and Ganon wins or someone else seals him which creates a 2nd parallel line.

    Now with BOTW and TOTK it seems it's a reboot which basically creates a multiverse now. Or knowing Nintendo they'll somehow fit in a really awkward way. 

    Aiqops
    Uncle Works at Nintendo
    Member

    Aug 3, 2021

    19,387

    Couldn't care less about trying to find connections between the games. To me they are all standalone.
     

    EllipsisBreak
    One Winged Slayer
    Member

    Aug 6, 2019

    2,274

    poptire said:

    The Hero Shade stuff is super interesting to me. That's Adult Link from OoT, right? Except he's all messed up and battle scarred. I'd like to see that story

    Click to expand...
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    I don't have all the context, but... yeah. This is a thing.
     

    OP

    OP

    poptire
    Avatar Wrecking Crew
    The Fallen

    Oct 25, 2017

    15,552

    SupersonicHypertonic said:

    Yeah I really like it in theory but over the years it's it's kinda just there and Nintendo didn't utilise it properly.

    There's 3 lines but in practice there's very little actual reasons to games within the same line. MM and TP are in the same line but there's very little convergence for them, the hero shade was never confirmed in game to be the hero time and even after it was in Historia it still doesn't explain what happened to Link after MM. For all we know he had another adventure in Disney world in between lol. In the downfall line a lot of the games repeat the same story of Ganon being resurrected in the same as if no one learns the lesson to fully kill him for good. I wish games had stronger connections to one another without needing direct sequels.

    My biggest peeve is Nintendo tried to be clever with the creation of downfall timeline but they fucked everything up instead. If a time like can be created because Link dies then literally EVERY SINGLE GAME has at least 2 endings - Link lives and saves the world continuing the same line or Link dies and Ganon wins or someone else seals him which creates a 2nd parallel line.

    Now with BOTW and TOTK it seems it's a reboot which basically creates a multiverse now. Or knowing Nintendo they'll somehow fit in a really awkward way.
    Click to expand...
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    I completely understand the frustration. I like to believe the OoT split happened because that singular moment in time was special. Like how Doc Brown believes there's something about November 5, 1955 that makes it cosmically important.
     

    Richietto
    One Winged Slayer
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    26,072

    North Carolina

    I love the Zelda timeline and talking about it and fuck the haters. There IS a timeline no matter how much you don't like it it's fun and I like fun. Same reason I fuckin love Kingdom Hearts. There's just so much to talk about when a new game hits.
     

    OP

    OP

    poptire
    Avatar Wrecking Crew
    The Fallen

    Oct 25, 2017

    15,552

    EllipsisBreak said:

    I don't have all the context, but... yeah. This is a thing.

    Click to expand...
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    That rules regardless of the context
     

    Ashes of Dreams
    Fallen Guardian of Unshakable Resolve
    Member

    May 22, 2020

    19,693

    I used to be VERY into the Zelda timeline and lore talk. This was mostly pre-Historia though, where the only evidence we had were from the games themselves and a few random interviews and developer comments. Like we'd known since way back that the ending of OoT depicted a split timeline and they confirmed on Twilight Princess' release that it was on the timeline opposite of Wind Waker. But how it all connected was more up in the air and the games often had hints like suggesting how the Temple of Time was over time overgrown and fallen apart in TP, suggesting an in-between state of OoT and ALttP.

    Hyrule Historia changed things. I thought it was a bit of a cop-out to shove all the old games without much story into a new third timeline. It clearly wasn't the intention when those games were made. But it was still mostly fine. I was still into it because it at least meant that they were going to open themselves up to interacting with the timeline more in the future. Now that it was set in stone, we could play with it...

    And then they just threw it all away one game later. I cannot stand the whole "well, Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom are their own thing" angle. Especially when those games are FILLED with references and call-backs to prior games. They want to have their cake and eat it too with this stuff but in my view it's completely undermined any legitimacy the timeline could have had. They clearly don't care.

    So, I'm kinda out now. Which hurts to say because this stuff really mattered to me when I was younger. But the series has just gone in a direction away from me in so many ways nowadays. 

    Soapbox
    Member

    Oct 28, 2017

    33,865

    I adore it and have wild thoughts and ideas about all the different options, mainly how Skyward Sword has at least 3 time line splints unto itself.

    The robots from another timeline with the time shift stones are probably from the future and not the past.

    Also they make another timeline when they defeat The Imprisoned in the future then go back in time and defeat Demise. 

    J_ToSaveTheDay
    "This guy are sick" and Corrupted by Vengeance
    Avenger

    Oct 25, 2017

    22,546

    USA

    It's a fun and weird thing for Nintendo to put together and to think about as a fan, but it's not a point of importance to my personal enjoyment of the franchise.
     

    Chemo
    Member

    Oct 28, 2017

    1,283

    No.
     

    OP

    OP

    poptire
    Avatar Wrecking Crew
    The Fallen

    Oct 25, 2017

    15,552

    Ashes of Dreams said:

    I used to be VERY into the Zelda timeline and lore talk. This was mostly pre-Historia though, where the only evidence we had were from the games themselves and a few random interviews and developer comments. Like we'd known since way back that the ending of OoT depicted a split timeline and they confirmed on Twilight Princess' release that it was on the timeline opposite of Wind Waker. But how it all connected was more up in the air and the games often had hints like suggesting how the Temple of Time was over time overgrown and fallen apart in TP, suggesting an in-between state of OoT and ALttP.

    Hyrule Historia changed things. I thought it was a bit of a cop-out to shove all the old games without much story into a new third timeline. It clearly wasn't the intention when those games were made. But it was still mostly fine. I was still into it because it at least meant that they were going to open themselves up to interacting with the timeline more in the future. Now that it was set in stone, we could play with it...

    And then they just threw it all away one game later. I cannot stand the whole "well, Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom are their own thing" angle. Especially when those games are FILLED with references and call-backs to prior games. They want to have their cake and eat it too with this stuff but in my view it's completely undermined any legitimacy the timeline could have had. They clearly don't care.

    So, I'm kinda out now. Which hurts to say because this stuff really mattered to me when I was younger. But the series has just gone in a direction away from me in so many ways nowadays.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    My hope is that either this moviecoming out they'll finally start to make a concrete timeline that, I PRAY, is still insane.
     

    eamono
    Member

    Nov 17, 2020

    341

    honestly I always thought that the 3d games have a coherent timeline and they kinda mucked it up by jamming the 2d games in. I'm down for some timeline discussion but I think some of the games like zelda 2 or the capcom ones just kinda obviously werent made with the timeline in mind and its just kinda not fun to discuss. its very telling that the "hero fails" timeline off OOT is just filled with the games that dont actually fit in the 2 that make sense

    the 3d games for sure have an intended timeline though, and every question about how BOTW being at the end of both child and adult timelines could easily be fixed with a lore dump or a new game 

    JasperMyst
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    805

    If it means we get creative stuff like tears of the kingdom and majoras mask I'm all for it.

    Actually thanks for reminding me starting Majora's Mask for the vibes. 

    Giga Man
    One Winged Slayer
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    Oct 27, 2017

    23,197

    I thought it was weird Nintendo would put one out in the first place, but nowadays, I don't really care. I thought Nintendo had abandoned it anyway.
     

    Grunty
    Member

    Oct 28, 2017

    10,029

    Gruntilda’s Lair

    I LOVE the timeline and think it's mostly pretty straight forward. It's not really complicated. The one thing I look forward to anytime a new Zelda game is its timeline placement. I get so much more enjoyment out of the games thanks to it.

    Also, don't want to spoil Echoes of Wisdom for anyone, but its placement and how a portion of the story of that game answers something about the timeline that was never really being asked to begin with was really darn cool. Something new to think about now when playing the games, particularly Ocarina of Time. 

    Houtarou Oreki
    Member

    Dec 31, 2021

    99

    poptire said:

    I hope they make it even more crazy. I haven't seen where Echoes of Wisdom lives, but I hope it's super weird.

    Click to expand...
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    According to the official Zelda site, they put it in the Hero Defeated branch, just after Tri-Force Heroes and before the big gap leading to the original NES Zelda.

    HISTORY | Zelda Portal | Nintendo

    Introducing the history of Hyrule, the setting for The Legend of the Zelda series.

    www.nintendo.com

     

    JasperMyst
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    Giga Man said:

    I thought it was weird Nintendo would put one out in the first place, but nowadays, I don't really care. I thought Nintendo had abandoned it anyway.

    Click to expand...
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    They haven't which is quite hilarious but I'll take it
     

    Neutron
    Member

    Jun 2, 2022

    3,531

    Sandstar said:

    I guess the part I don't like is that the original legend of zelda is from the "bad" timeline.

    Click to expand...
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    I agree - although not so much about the idea of a "bad timeline", but just that it kinda makes it... non-canonical?

    Link could fail at any point, creating other failure timelines. So why is this one somehow a "real" timeline and not just a what-if like any other point of failure? 

    Sandstar
    Member

    Oct 28, 2017

    8,165

    Neutron said:

    I agree - although not so much about the idea of a "bad timeline", but just that it kinda makes it... non-canonical?

    Link could fail at any point, creating other failure timelines. So why is this one somehow a "real" timeline and not just a what-if like any other point of failure?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Yeah, i guess that's what I mean, it's non-canon. It just kind of leaves a bad taste in my mouth. 

    SupersonicHypertonic
    Member

    Apr 20, 2022

    3,530

    poptire said:

    I completely understand the frustration. I like to believe the OoT split happened because that singular moment in time was special. Like how Doc Brown believes there's something about November 5, 1955 that makes it cosmically important.

    Click to expand...
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    That could be a solution why OoT creates a split but since there isn't a reason you could easily argue other games are special and could/should timelines.

    SS has stupid time travel at the end where Link destroys the present imprisonedusing the Triforce but also goes back in time to destroy Demise.....so how can the present imprisoned exist? Surely that could create 2 timelinesespecially as this Link is the first to use the Triforce and this Zelda is the direct reincarnation of Hylia so they should have special privileges.

    Zelda team needs a few people to say the very least get the skeleton of the timeline to make sense and not contradict itself at times. 

    Last edited: Yesterday at 10:03 PM

    StraySheep
    It's Pronounced "Aerith"
    Member

    Oct 26, 2017

    9,157

    Rockodile said:

    I think it's pretty fun, and it's easy to ignore if you don't care. Don't understand why some people get so pissed off about it.

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Same 

    OP

    OP

    poptire
    Avatar Wrecking Crew
    The Fallen

    Oct 25, 2017

    15,552

    A good way to "fix" the timelineis to say it's all based on in-continuity folklore and hearsay, so any errors or impossibilities it has are entirely man-made, as the citizens of Hyrule who are trying to figure it out also don't really know.
     

    WhiteRabbitEXE
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    15,094

    Arizona

    Literally my only issue is the failed hero timeline. It's just so, so silly. But whatever, it's not a big deal lol
     

    Jane
    Member

    Oct 17, 2018

    1,626

    The problem isn't the complexity. The problem is that Nintendo clearly didn't give a fuck about the lore being consistent or the stories connecting outside of direct sequels when they made the games, but they're now trying to pretend after the fact that it's all connected. The "doomed" timeline has never been hinted at and came out of nowhere.
     

    Berordn
    One Winged Slayer
    Member

    Oct 26, 2017

    10,711

    NoVA

    poptire said:

    A good way to "fix" the timelineis to say it's all based on in-continuity folklore and hearsay, so any errors or impossibilities it has are entirely man-made, as the citizens of Hyrule who are trying to figure it out also don't really know.

    Click to expand...
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    this has always been how i've viewed it

    the timelines existing is whatever, but the actual games are retellings and reinterpretations of legends and i think that's more fun than having a strictly true history to look at 

    Boopers
    Member

    Nov 1, 2020

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    Vermont usa

    I came in here to endorse Tingle, and the poll choices did not leave me disappointed. 🫡
     

    OP

    OP

    poptire
    Avatar Wrecking Crew
    The Fallen

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    15,552

    Berordn said:

    this has always been how i've viewed it

    the timelines existing is whatever, but the actual games are retellings and reinterpretations of legends and i think that's more fun than having a strictly true history to look at
    Click to expand...
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    This kinda thing has always been enjoyable to me. And it can explain away literally any holes in any story. The magic bullet / infinite crutch of storytelling. George RR Martin should take notes.

    Boopers said:

    I came in here to endorse Tingle, and the poll choices did not leave me disappointed. 🫡

    Click to expand...
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    Tingle Team represent 

    Servbot24
    The Fallen

    Oct 25, 2017

    47,579

    It's fine. I don't really want a precise timeline of events. General allusions to a mystical history is better.
     

    TheNormalMan
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    149

    Los Angeles, CA

    I love it and have always loved it.

    I never understood why people hated on it so much. You can just ignore it. When they revealed the downfall timeline in HH I thought it genius. It essentially established a way to justify any storyline moving forward.

    It also gave people more to talk about. And adjust their theories. There are still plenty of mysteries in the timeline—particularly in the BOTW/TotK area. I know they separated them but they can always add to it.

    Also, I know they never go into games with story in mind, but eventually the mechanics of a game might sync of pretty well with a specific area of the timeline. I love story heavy Zelda's. They don't all need to be that way but variety is the spice of life. 

    Hambulance
    Member

    Oct 30, 2017

    2,296

    I am ready for Into the Zeldaverse
     

    Lump
    One Winged Slayer
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    18,210

    It does nothing for me, but I do highly enjoy watching others try and piece together the timeline, it is like watching non-problematic flat earth discourse from afar.
     

    Tathanen
    One Winged Slayer
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    7,176

    WhiteRabbitEXE said:

    Literally my only issue is the failed hero timeline. It's just so, so silly. But whatever, it's not a big deal lol

    Click to expand...
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    It's weird and I'm not a huge fan, they had to contend with the fact that while there are multiple timelines the LTTP branch is a separate canon, not a timeline. So I can understand the logic of basing it on a What If scenario, particularly since OOT kinda straddles the two. In their shoes tho I'd have probably just called those games "old legends of Hyrule" or something and not tried to draw a line between them and the rest.

    To the thread question: yes the timeline is my life. 
    #anyone #else #actually #enjoy #convoluted
    Anyone else actually ENJOY the convoluted Zelda timeline?
    poptire Avatar Wrecking Crew The Fallen Oct 25, 2017 15,552 I was listening to Brian Shea's Zelda series recap podcast and thought dang, I really like this. I remember the split timeline being a big point of contention when Nintendo first announced it. And the second split into a THIRD timeline was also fun to witness. It makes sense to me that Ocarina was such a pivotal moment in time that it could spawn multiple possible realities. Shea said something like is there a timeline where a simple bokoblin killed Link? Probably! I'd love to see that timeline. I hope they make it even more crazy. I haven't seen where Echoes of Wisdom lives, but I hope it's super weird. Also! Apparently the Ganon at the end of Wind Waker is gone-gone. What a cool way to go. Probably my favorite ending of any Zelda game. Anyway I sure would like to read y'alls thoughts on whether the split timelines are good or not, and of course thoughts on the timelines themselves  blueredandgold Member Oct 25, 2017 8,679 Quick question off the top - that image was only ever sighted at PAX Aus correct?   OP OP poptire Avatar Wrecking Crew The Fallen Oct 25, 2017 15,552 blueredandgold said: Quick question off the top - that image was only ever sighted at PAX Aus correct? Click to expand... Click to shrink... As far as I know, yeah. I'm not sure if it's official official.   Stencil Mailing His Own Damn Business Member Oct 30, 2017 13,549 USA There was ONE brief moment where I sort of bothered to think about it -- hard enough to mentally map each game I'd played into it -- and it amounted to an entire "Huh, that's kind of neat" and I immediately moved on and never thought about it again. I don't think Nintendo even really cares that much about it, therefore it's not a topic of discussion I ever engage in. I feel like it's such an obvious afterthought. If the creators don't care why would I?  StephenNotStrange Member Jan 16, 2019 784 blueredandgold said: Quick question off the top - that image was only ever sighted at PAX Aus correct? Click to expand... Click to shrink... Yeah, but a very similar one which show where BotW and TotK is already on the Zelda's JP website long ago.  Sandstar Member Oct 28, 2017 8,165 I guess the part I don't like is that the original legend of zelda is from the "bad" timeline.   Walpurgisnacht Member May 7, 2020 1,724 I think the only people that get super passionate and heated and can never shut up about it are timeline-haters. Aside from that it's fine. It's something Miyamoto and Aonuma have been alluding to in interviews since the 90's.  Cheesy Member Oct 30, 2017 2,565 I feel like it doesn't really add anything and I honestly forget it exists most of the time.   OP OP poptire Avatar Wrecking Crew The Fallen Oct 25, 2017 15,552 Has anyone read the manga series? Does it go into timeline split shenanigans?   RagnarokX Member Oct 26, 2017 17,710 I wouldn't call it convoluted. Before BotW only like 3 games didn't fit nicely. I never got why people act like you have to put effort to understand it and got so heated at anyone discussing it. What we had before is certainly preferable to the irreverent JJ Abrams mystery box style they're going for now with BotW where they can't even keep things coherent between direct sequels.   EllipsisBreak One Winged Slayer Member Aug 6, 2019 2,274 poptire said: Has anyone read the manga series? Does it go into timeline split shenanigans? Click to expand... Click to shrink... I'm no expert, but I've seen some images of the Twilight Princess one and it's definitely a factor there.   Zyrokai Member Nov 1, 2017 5,214 Columbus, Ohio I love it.   PAFenix Unshakable Resolve Member Nov 21, 2019 20,137 I love it! poptire said: Has anyone read the manga series? Does it go into timeline split shenanigans? Click to expand... Click to shrink... The bits I read of the old manga kinda goes into each game as it's own separate one-off or story. But most of those were, at the most, 2 volumes. Dunno about the Twilight Princess manga, since that actually goes up to ELEVEN. I wouldn't be surprised if it does make hints towards it, because of the Hero Shade.  Tom Nook Says... Member Jan 15, 2019 7,406 The fact that Nintendo themselves don't care a whole lot about it is what makes it fun. The holes and loose connections are where the theorizing happens. If it was overly-detailed and concrete there wouldn't be much to talk about.   The Adder Member Oct 25, 2017 20,609 It's legitimately fun to talk about and piece together. Especially when you think of it from the perspective that Nintendo themselves don't make games based on where they want to fill in the timeline, but make the game they want and then figure out what to do about placement. That makes theorizing so much more fun because it could still be liquid even after release.   Angst Member Oct 27, 2017 4,306 I think it sucks and choose to ignore it.   OP OP poptire Avatar Wrecking Crew The Fallen Oct 25, 2017 15,552 EllipsisBreak said: I'm no expert, but I've seen some images of the Twilight Princess one and it's definitely a factor there. Click to expand... Click to shrink... PAFenix said: I love it! The bits I read of the old manga kinda goes into each game as it's own separate one-off or story. But most of those were, at the most, 2 volumes. Dunno about the Twilight Princess manga, since that actually goes up to ELEVEN. I wouldn't be surprised if it does make hints towards it, because of the Hero Shade. Click to expand... Click to shrink... The Hero Shade stuff is super interesting to me. That's Adult Link from OoT, right? Except he's all messed up and battle scarred. I'd like to see that story   Rockodile Member Dec 7, 2018 1,256 I think it's pretty fun, and it's easy to ignore if you don't care. Don't understand why some people get so pissed off about it.   SupersonicHypertonic Member Apr 20, 2022 3,530 Yeah I really like it in theory but over the years it's it's kinda just there and Nintendo didn't utilise it properly. There's 3 lines but in practice there's very little actual reasons to games within the same line. MM and TP are in the same line but there's very little convergence for them, the hero shade was never confirmed in game to be the hero time and even after it was in Historia it still doesn't explain what happened to Link after MM. For all we know he had another adventure in Disney world in between lol. In the downfall line a lot of the games repeat the same story of Ganon being resurrected in the same as if no one learns the lesson to fully kill him for good. I wish games had stronger connections to one another without needing direct sequels. My biggest peeve is Nintendo tried to be clever with the creation of downfall timeline but they fucked everything up instead. If a time like can be created because Link dies then literally EVERY SINGLE GAME has at least 2 endings - Link lives and saves the world continuing the same line or Link dies and Ganon wins or someone else seals him which creates a 2nd parallel line. Now with BOTW and TOTK it seems it's a reboot which basically creates a multiverse now. Or knowing Nintendo they'll somehow fit in a really awkward way.  Aiqops Uncle Works at Nintendo Member Aug 3, 2021 19,387 Couldn't care less about trying to find connections between the games. To me they are all standalone.   EllipsisBreak One Winged Slayer Member Aug 6, 2019 2,274 poptire said: The Hero Shade stuff is super interesting to me. That's Adult Link from OoT, right? Except he's all messed up and battle scarred. I'd like to see that story Click to expand... Click to shrink... I don't have all the context, but... yeah. This is a thing.   OP OP poptire Avatar Wrecking Crew The Fallen Oct 25, 2017 15,552 SupersonicHypertonic said: Yeah I really like it in theory but over the years it's it's kinda just there and Nintendo didn't utilise it properly. There's 3 lines but in practice there's very little actual reasons to games within the same line. MM and TP are in the same line but there's very little convergence for them, the hero shade was never confirmed in game to be the hero time and even after it was in Historia it still doesn't explain what happened to Link after MM. For all we know he had another adventure in Disney world in between lol. In the downfall line a lot of the games repeat the same story of Ganon being resurrected in the same as if no one learns the lesson to fully kill him for good. I wish games had stronger connections to one another without needing direct sequels. My biggest peeve is Nintendo tried to be clever with the creation of downfall timeline but they fucked everything up instead. If a time like can be created because Link dies then literally EVERY SINGLE GAME has at least 2 endings - Link lives and saves the world continuing the same line or Link dies and Ganon wins or someone else seals him which creates a 2nd parallel line. Now with BOTW and TOTK it seems it's a reboot which basically creates a multiverse now. Or knowing Nintendo they'll somehow fit in a really awkward way. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I completely understand the frustration. I like to believe the OoT split happened because that singular moment in time was special. Like how Doc Brown believes there's something about November 5, 1955 that makes it cosmically important.   Richietto One Winged Slayer Member Oct 25, 2017 26,072 North Carolina I love the Zelda timeline and talking about it and fuck the haters. There IS a timeline no matter how much you don't like it it's fun and I like fun. Same reason I fuckin love Kingdom Hearts. There's just so much to talk about when a new game hits.   OP OP poptire Avatar Wrecking Crew The Fallen Oct 25, 2017 15,552 EllipsisBreak said: I don't have all the context, but... yeah. This is a thing. Click to expand... Click to shrink... That rules regardless of the context   Ashes of Dreams Fallen Guardian of Unshakable Resolve Member May 22, 2020 19,693 I used to be VERY into the Zelda timeline and lore talk. This was mostly pre-Historia though, where the only evidence we had were from the games themselves and a few random interviews and developer comments. Like we'd known since way back that the ending of OoT depicted a split timeline and they confirmed on Twilight Princess' release that it was on the timeline opposite of Wind Waker. But how it all connected was more up in the air and the games often had hints like suggesting how the Temple of Time was over time overgrown and fallen apart in TP, suggesting an in-between state of OoT and ALttP. Hyrule Historia changed things. I thought it was a bit of a cop-out to shove all the old games without much story into a new third timeline. It clearly wasn't the intention when those games were made. But it was still mostly fine. I was still into it because it at least meant that they were going to open themselves up to interacting with the timeline more in the future. Now that it was set in stone, we could play with it... And then they just threw it all away one game later. I cannot stand the whole "well, Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom are their own thing" angle. Especially when those games are FILLED with references and call-backs to prior games. They want to have their cake and eat it too with this stuff but in my view it's completely undermined any legitimacy the timeline could have had. They clearly don't care. So, I'm kinda out now. Which hurts to say because this stuff really mattered to me when I was younger. But the series has just gone in a direction away from me in so many ways nowadays.  Soapbox Member Oct 28, 2017 33,865 I adore it and have wild thoughts and ideas about all the different options, mainly how Skyward Sword has at least 3 time line splints unto itself. The robots from another timeline with the time shift stones are probably from the future and not the past. Also they make another timeline when they defeat The Imprisoned in the future then go back in time and defeat Demise.  J_ToSaveTheDay "This guy are sick" and Corrupted by Vengeance Avenger Oct 25, 2017 22,546 USA It's a fun and weird thing for Nintendo to put together and to think about as a fan, but it's not a point of importance to my personal enjoyment of the franchise.   Chemo Member Oct 28, 2017 1,283 No.   OP OP poptire Avatar Wrecking Crew The Fallen Oct 25, 2017 15,552 Ashes of Dreams said: I used to be VERY into the Zelda timeline and lore talk. This was mostly pre-Historia though, where the only evidence we had were from the games themselves and a few random interviews and developer comments. Like we'd known since way back that the ending of OoT depicted a split timeline and they confirmed on Twilight Princess' release that it was on the timeline opposite of Wind Waker. But how it all connected was more up in the air and the games often had hints like suggesting how the Temple of Time was over time overgrown and fallen apart in TP, suggesting an in-between state of OoT and ALttP. Hyrule Historia changed things. I thought it was a bit of a cop-out to shove all the old games without much story into a new third timeline. It clearly wasn't the intention when those games were made. But it was still mostly fine. I was still into it because it at least meant that they were going to open themselves up to interacting with the timeline more in the future. Now that it was set in stone, we could play with it... And then they just threw it all away one game later. I cannot stand the whole "well, Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom are their own thing" angle. Especially when those games are FILLED with references and call-backs to prior games. They want to have their cake and eat it too with this stuff but in my view it's completely undermined any legitimacy the timeline could have had. They clearly don't care. So, I'm kinda out now. Which hurts to say because this stuff really mattered to me when I was younger. But the series has just gone in a direction away from me in so many ways nowadays. Click to expand... Click to shrink... My hope is that either this moviecoming out they'll finally start to make a concrete timeline that, I PRAY, is still insane.   eamono Member Nov 17, 2020 341 honestly I always thought that the 3d games have a coherent timeline and they kinda mucked it up by jamming the 2d games in. I'm down for some timeline discussion but I think some of the games like zelda 2 or the capcom ones just kinda obviously werent made with the timeline in mind and its just kinda not fun to discuss. its very telling that the "hero fails" timeline off OOT is just filled with the games that dont actually fit in the 2 that make sense the 3d games for sure have an intended timeline though, and every question about how BOTW being at the end of both child and adult timelines could easily be fixed with a lore dump or a new game  JasperMyst Powered by Friendship™ Member Sep 25, 2023 805 If it means we get creative stuff like tears of the kingdom and majoras mask I'm all for it. Actually thanks for reminding me starting Majora's Mask for the vibes.  Giga Man One Winged Slayer Member Oct 27, 2017 23,197 I thought it was weird Nintendo would put one out in the first place, but nowadays, I don't really care. I thought Nintendo had abandoned it anyway.   Grunty Member Oct 28, 2017 10,029 Gruntilda’s Lair I LOVE the timeline and think it's mostly pretty straight forward. It's not really complicated. The one thing I look forward to anytime a new Zelda game is its timeline placement. I get so much more enjoyment out of the games thanks to it. Also, don't want to spoil Echoes of Wisdom for anyone, but its placement and how a portion of the story of that game answers something about the timeline that was never really being asked to begin with was really darn cool. Something new to think about now when playing the games, particularly Ocarina of Time.  Houtarou Oreki Member Dec 31, 2021 99 poptire said: I hope they make it even more crazy. I haven't seen where Echoes of Wisdom lives, but I hope it's super weird. Click to expand... Click to shrink... According to the official Zelda site, they put it in the Hero Defeated branch, just after Tri-Force Heroes and before the big gap leading to the original NES Zelda. HISTORY | Zelda Portal | Nintendo Introducing the history of Hyrule, the setting for The Legend of the Zelda series. www.nintendo.com   JasperMyst Powered by Friendship™ Member Sep 25, 2023 805 Giga Man said: I thought it was weird Nintendo would put one out in the first place, but nowadays, I don't really care. I thought Nintendo had abandoned it anyway. Click to expand... Click to shrink... They haven't which is quite hilarious but I'll take it 😂   Neutron Member Jun 2, 2022 3,531 Sandstar said: I guess the part I don't like is that the original legend of zelda is from the "bad" timeline. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I agree - although not so much about the idea of a "bad timeline", but just that it kinda makes it... non-canonical? Link could fail at any point, creating other failure timelines. So why is this one somehow a "real" timeline and not just a what-if like any other point of failure?  Sandstar Member Oct 28, 2017 8,165 Neutron said: I agree - although not so much about the idea of a "bad timeline", but just that it kinda makes it... non-canonical? Link could fail at any point, creating other failure timelines. So why is this one somehow a "real" timeline and not just a what-if like any other point of failure? Click to expand... Click to shrink... Yeah, i guess that's what I mean, it's non-canon. It just kind of leaves a bad taste in my mouth.  SupersonicHypertonic Member Apr 20, 2022 3,530 poptire said: I completely understand the frustration. I like to believe the OoT split happened because that singular moment in time was special. Like how Doc Brown believes there's something about November 5, 1955 that makes it cosmically important. Click to expand... Click to shrink... That could be a solution why OoT creates a split but since there isn't a reason you could easily argue other games are special and could/should timelines. SS has stupid time travel at the end where Link destroys the present imprisonedusing the Triforce but also goes back in time to destroy Demise.....so how can the present imprisoned exist? Surely that could create 2 timelinesespecially as this Link is the first to use the Triforce and this Zelda is the direct reincarnation of Hylia so they should have special privileges. Zelda team needs a few people to say the very least get the skeleton of the timeline to make sense and not contradict itself at times.  Last edited: Yesterday at 10:03 PM StraySheep It's Pronounced "Aerith" Member Oct 26, 2017 9,157 Rockodile said: I think it's pretty fun, and it's easy to ignore if you don't care. Don't understand why some people get so pissed off about it. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Same  OP OP poptire Avatar Wrecking Crew The Fallen Oct 25, 2017 15,552 A good way to "fix" the timelineis to say it's all based on in-continuity folklore and hearsay, so any errors or impossibilities it has are entirely man-made, as the citizens of Hyrule who are trying to figure it out also don't really know.   WhiteRabbitEXE Member Oct 25, 2017 15,094 Arizona Literally my only issue is the failed hero timeline. It's just so, so silly. But whatever, it's not a big deal lol   Jane Member Oct 17, 2018 1,626 The problem isn't the complexity. The problem is that Nintendo clearly didn't give a fuck about the lore being consistent or the stories connecting outside of direct sequels when they made the games, but they're now trying to pretend after the fact that it's all connected. The "doomed" timeline has never been hinted at and came out of nowhere.   Berordn One Winged Slayer Member Oct 26, 2017 10,711 NoVA poptire said: A good way to "fix" the timelineis to say it's all based on in-continuity folklore and hearsay, so any errors or impossibilities it has are entirely man-made, as the citizens of Hyrule who are trying to figure it out also don't really know. Click to expand... Click to shrink... this has always been how i've viewed it the timelines existing is whatever, but the actual games are retellings and reinterpretations of legends and i think that's more fun than having a strictly true history to look at  Boopers Member Nov 1, 2020 4,358 Vermont usa I came in here to endorse Tingle, and the poll choices did not leave me disappointed. 🫡   OP OP poptire Avatar Wrecking Crew The Fallen Oct 25, 2017 15,552 Berordn said: this has always been how i've viewed it the timelines existing is whatever, but the actual games are retellings and reinterpretations of legends and i think that's more fun than having a strictly true history to look at Click to expand... Click to shrink... This kinda thing has always been enjoyable to me. And it can explain away literally any holes in any story. The magic bullet / infinite crutch of storytelling. George RR Martin should take notes. Boopers said: I came in here to endorse Tingle, and the poll choices did not leave me disappointed. 🫡 Click to expand... Click to shrink... Tingle Team represent  Servbot24 The Fallen Oct 25, 2017 47,579 It's fine. I don't really want a precise timeline of events. General allusions to a mystical history is better.   TheNormalMan Member Oct 27, 2017 149 Los Angeles, CA I love it and have always loved it. I never understood why people hated on it so much. You can just ignore it. When they revealed the downfall timeline in HH I thought it genius. It essentially established a way to justify any storyline moving forward. It also gave people more to talk about. And adjust their theories. There are still plenty of mysteries in the timeline—particularly in the BOTW/TotK area. I know they separated them but they can always add to it. Also, I know they never go into games with story in mind, but eventually the mechanics of a game might sync of pretty well with a specific area of the timeline. I love story heavy Zelda's. They don't all need to be that way but variety is the spice of life.  Hambulance Member Oct 30, 2017 2,296 I am ready for Into the Zeldaverse   Lump One Winged Slayer Member Oct 25, 2017 18,210 It does nothing for me, but I do highly enjoy watching others try and piece together the timeline, it is like watching non-problematic flat earth discourse from afar.   Tathanen One Winged Slayer Member Oct 25, 2017 7,176 WhiteRabbitEXE said: Literally my only issue is the failed hero timeline. It's just so, so silly. But whatever, it's not a big deal lol Click to expand... Click to shrink... It's weird and I'm not a huge fan, they had to contend with the fact that while there are multiple timelines the LTTP branch is a separate canon, not a timeline. So I can understand the logic of basing it on a What If scenario, particularly since OOT kinda straddles the two. In their shoes tho I'd have probably just called those games "old legends of Hyrule" or something and not tried to draw a line between them and the rest. To the thread question: yes the timeline is my life.  #anyone #else #actually #enjoy #convoluted
    Anyone else actually ENJOY the convoluted Zelda timeline?
    www.resetera.com
    poptire Avatar Wrecking Crew The Fallen Oct 25, 2017 15,552 I was listening to Brian Shea's Zelda series recap podcast and thought dang, I really like this. I remember the split timeline being a big point of contention when Nintendo first announced it. And the second split into a THIRD timeline was also fun to witness. It makes sense to me that Ocarina was such a pivotal moment in time that it could spawn multiple possible realities. Shea said something like is there a timeline where a simple bokoblin killed Link? Probably! I'd love to see that timeline. I hope they make it even more crazy. I haven't seen where Echoes of Wisdom lives, but I hope it's super weird. Also! Apparently the Ganon at the end of Wind Waker is gone-gone. What a cool way to go. Probably my favorite ending of any Zelda game. Anyway I sure would like to read y'alls thoughts on whether the split timelines are good or not, and of course thoughts on the timelines themselves  blueredandgold Member Oct 25, 2017 8,679 Quick question off the top - that image was only ever sighted at PAX Aus correct?   OP OP poptire Avatar Wrecking Crew The Fallen Oct 25, 2017 15,552 blueredandgold said: Quick question off the top - that image was only ever sighted at PAX Aus correct? Click to expand... Click to shrink... As far as I know, yeah. I'm not sure if it's official official.   Stencil Mailing His Own Damn Business Member Oct 30, 2017 13,549 USA There was ONE brief moment where I sort of bothered to think about it -- hard enough to mentally map each game I'd played into it -- and it amounted to an entire "Huh, that's kind of neat" and I immediately moved on and never thought about it again. I don't think Nintendo even really cares that much about it, therefore it's not a topic of discussion I ever engage in. I feel like it's such an obvious afterthought. If the creators don't care why would I?  StephenNotStrange Member Jan 16, 2019 784 blueredandgold said: Quick question off the top - that image was only ever sighted at PAX Aus correct? Click to expand... Click to shrink... Yeah, but a very similar one which show where BotW and TotK is already on the Zelda's JP website long ago.  Sandstar Member Oct 28, 2017 8,165 I guess the part I don't like is that the original legend of zelda is from the "bad" timeline.   Walpurgisnacht Member May 7, 2020 1,724 I think the only people that get super passionate and heated and can never shut up about it are timeline-haters. Aside from that it's fine. It's something Miyamoto and Aonuma have been alluding to in interviews since the 90's.  Cheesy Member Oct 30, 2017 2,565 I feel like it doesn't really add anything and I honestly forget it exists most of the time.   OP OP poptire Avatar Wrecking Crew The Fallen Oct 25, 2017 15,552 Has anyone read the manga series? Does it go into timeline split shenanigans?   RagnarokX Member Oct 26, 2017 17,710 I wouldn't call it convoluted. Before BotW only like 3 games didn't fit nicely. I never got why people act like you have to put effort to understand it and got so heated at anyone discussing it. What we had before is certainly preferable to the irreverent JJ Abrams mystery box style they're going for now with BotW where they can't even keep things coherent between direct sequels.   EllipsisBreak One Winged Slayer Member Aug 6, 2019 2,274 poptire said: Has anyone read the manga series? Does it go into timeline split shenanigans? Click to expand... Click to shrink... I'm no expert, but I've seen some images of the Twilight Princess one and it's definitely a factor there.   Zyrokai Member Nov 1, 2017 5,214 Columbus, Ohio I love it.   PAFenix Unshakable Resolve Member Nov 21, 2019 20,137 I love it! poptire said: Has anyone read the manga series? Does it go into timeline split shenanigans? Click to expand... Click to shrink... The bits I read of the old manga kinda goes into each game as it's own separate one-off or story. But most of those were, at the most, 2 volumes. Dunno about the Twilight Princess manga, since that actually goes up to ELEVEN. I wouldn't be surprised if it does make hints towards it, because of the Hero Shade.  Tom Nook Says... Member Jan 15, 2019 7,406 The fact that Nintendo themselves don't care a whole lot about it is what makes it fun. The holes and loose connections are where the theorizing happens. If it was overly-detailed and concrete there wouldn't be much to talk about.   The Adder Member Oct 25, 2017 20,609 It's legitimately fun to talk about and piece together. Especially when you think of it from the perspective that Nintendo themselves don't make games based on where they want to fill in the timeline, but make the game they want and then figure out what to do about placement. That makes theorizing so much more fun because it could still be liquid even after release.   Angst Member Oct 27, 2017 4,306 I think it sucks and choose to ignore it.   OP OP poptire Avatar Wrecking Crew The Fallen Oct 25, 2017 15,552 EllipsisBreak said: I'm no expert, but I've seen some images of the Twilight Princess one and it's definitely a factor there. Click to expand... Click to shrink... PAFenix said: I love it! The bits I read of the old manga kinda goes into each game as it's own separate one-off or story. But most of those were, at the most, 2 volumes. Dunno about the Twilight Princess manga, since that actually goes up to ELEVEN. I wouldn't be surprised if it does make hints towards it, because of the Hero Shade. Click to expand... Click to shrink... The Hero Shade stuff is super interesting to me. That's Adult Link from OoT, right? Except he's all messed up and battle scarred. I'd like to see that story   Rockodile Member Dec 7, 2018 1,256 I think it's pretty fun, and it's easy to ignore if you don't care. Don't understand why some people get so pissed off about it.   SupersonicHypertonic Member Apr 20, 2022 3,530 Yeah I really like it in theory but over the years it's it's kinda just there and Nintendo didn't utilise it properly. There's 3 lines but in practice there's very little actual reasons to games within the same line. MM and TP are in the same line but there's very little convergence for them, the hero shade was never confirmed in game to be the hero time and even after it was in Historia it still doesn't explain what happened to Link after MM. For all we know he had another adventure in Disney world in between lol. In the downfall line a lot of the games repeat the same story of Ganon being resurrected in the same as if no one learns the lesson to fully kill him for good. I wish games had stronger connections to one another without needing direct sequels. My biggest peeve is Nintendo tried to be clever with the creation of downfall timeline but they fucked everything up instead. If a time like can be created because Link dies then literally EVERY SINGLE GAME has at least 2 endings - Link lives and saves the world continuing the same line or Link dies and Ganon wins or someone else seals him which creates a 2nd parallel line. Now with BOTW and TOTK it seems it's a reboot which basically creates a multiverse now. Or knowing Nintendo they'll somehow fit in a really awkward way.  Aiqops Uncle Works at Nintendo Member Aug 3, 2021 19,387 Couldn't care less about trying to find connections between the games. To me they are all standalone.   EllipsisBreak One Winged Slayer Member Aug 6, 2019 2,274 poptire said: The Hero Shade stuff is super interesting to me. That's Adult Link from OoT, right? Except he's all messed up and battle scarred. I'd like to see that story Click to expand... Click to shrink... I don't have all the context, but... yeah. This is a thing.   OP OP poptire Avatar Wrecking Crew The Fallen Oct 25, 2017 15,552 SupersonicHypertonic said: Yeah I really like it in theory but over the years it's it's kinda just there and Nintendo didn't utilise it properly. There's 3 lines but in practice there's very little actual reasons to games within the same line. MM and TP are in the same line but there's very little convergence for them, the hero shade was never confirmed in game to be the hero time and even after it was in Historia it still doesn't explain what happened to Link after MM. For all we know he had another adventure in Disney world in between lol. In the downfall line a lot of the games repeat the same story of Ganon being resurrected in the same as if no one learns the lesson to fully kill him for good. I wish games had stronger connections to one another without needing direct sequels. My biggest peeve is Nintendo tried to be clever with the creation of downfall timeline but they fucked everything up instead. If a time like can be created because Link dies then literally EVERY SINGLE GAME has at least 2 endings - Link lives and saves the world continuing the same line or Link dies and Ganon wins or someone else seals him which creates a 2nd parallel line. Now with BOTW and TOTK it seems it's a reboot which basically creates a multiverse now. Or knowing Nintendo they'll somehow fit in a really awkward way. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I completely understand the frustration. I like to believe the OoT split happened because that singular moment in time was special. Like how Doc Brown believes there's something about November 5, 1955 that makes it cosmically important.   Richietto One Winged Slayer Member Oct 25, 2017 26,072 North Carolina I love the Zelda timeline and talking about it and fuck the haters. There IS a timeline no matter how much you don't like it it's fun and I like fun. Same reason I fuckin love Kingdom Hearts. There's just so much to talk about when a new game hits.   OP OP poptire Avatar Wrecking Crew The Fallen Oct 25, 2017 15,552 EllipsisBreak said: I don't have all the context, but... yeah. This is a thing. Click to expand... Click to shrink... That rules regardless of the context   Ashes of Dreams Fallen Guardian of Unshakable Resolve Member May 22, 2020 19,693 I used to be VERY into the Zelda timeline and lore talk. This was mostly pre-Historia though, where the only evidence we had were from the games themselves and a few random interviews and developer comments. Like we'd known since way back that the ending of OoT depicted a split timeline and they confirmed on Twilight Princess' release that it was on the timeline opposite of Wind Waker. But how it all connected was more up in the air and the games often had hints like suggesting how the Temple of Time was over time overgrown and fallen apart in TP, suggesting an in-between state of OoT and ALttP. Hyrule Historia changed things. I thought it was a bit of a cop-out to shove all the old games without much story into a new third timeline. It clearly wasn't the intention when those games were made. But it was still mostly fine. I was still into it because it at least meant that they were going to open themselves up to interacting with the timeline more in the future. Now that it was set in stone, we could play with it... And then they just threw it all away one game later. I cannot stand the whole "well, Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom are their own thing" angle. Especially when those games are FILLED with references and call-backs to prior games. They want to have their cake and eat it too with this stuff but in my view it's completely undermined any legitimacy the timeline could have had. They clearly don't care. So, I'm kinda out now. Which hurts to say because this stuff really mattered to me when I was younger. But the series has just gone in a direction away from me in so many ways nowadays.  Soapbox Member Oct 28, 2017 33,865 I adore it and have wild thoughts and ideas about all the different options, mainly how Skyward Sword has at least 3 time line splints unto itself. The robots from another timeline with the time shift stones are probably from the future and not the past. Also they make another timeline when they defeat The Imprisoned in the future then go back in time and defeat Demise.  J_ToSaveTheDay "This guy are sick" and Corrupted by Vengeance Avenger Oct 25, 2017 22,546 USA It's a fun and weird thing for Nintendo to put together and to think about as a fan, but it's not a point of importance to my personal enjoyment of the franchise.   Chemo Member Oct 28, 2017 1,283 No.   OP OP poptire Avatar Wrecking Crew The Fallen Oct 25, 2017 15,552 Ashes of Dreams said: I used to be VERY into the Zelda timeline and lore talk. This was mostly pre-Historia though, where the only evidence we had were from the games themselves and a few random interviews and developer comments. Like we'd known since way back that the ending of OoT depicted a split timeline and they confirmed on Twilight Princess' release that it was on the timeline opposite of Wind Waker. But how it all connected was more up in the air and the games often had hints like suggesting how the Temple of Time was over time overgrown and fallen apart in TP, suggesting an in-between state of OoT and ALttP. Hyrule Historia changed things. I thought it was a bit of a cop-out to shove all the old games without much story into a new third timeline. It clearly wasn't the intention when those games were made. But it was still mostly fine. I was still into it because it at least meant that they were going to open themselves up to interacting with the timeline more in the future. Now that it was set in stone, we could play with it... And then they just threw it all away one game later. I cannot stand the whole "well, Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom are their own thing" angle. Especially when those games are FILLED with references and call-backs to prior games. They want to have their cake and eat it too with this stuff but in my view it's completely undermined any legitimacy the timeline could have had. They clearly don't care. So, I'm kinda out now. Which hurts to say because this stuff really mattered to me when I was younger. But the series has just gone in a direction away from me in so many ways nowadays. Click to expand... Click to shrink... My hope is that either this movie (possible trilogy?) coming out they'll finally start to make a concrete timeline that, I PRAY, is still insane.   eamono Member Nov 17, 2020 341 honestly I always thought that the 3d games have a coherent timeline and they kinda mucked it up by jamming the 2d games in. I'm down for some timeline discussion but I think some of the games like zelda 2 or the capcom ones just kinda obviously werent made with the timeline in mind and its just kinda not fun to discuss. its very telling that the "hero fails" timeline off OOT is just filled with the games that dont actually fit in the 2 that make sense the 3d games for sure have an intended timeline though, and every question about how BOTW being at the end of both child and adult timelines could easily be fixed with a lore dump or a new game  JasperMyst Powered by Friendship™ Member Sep 25, 2023 805 If it means we get creative stuff like tears of the kingdom and majoras mask I'm all for it. Actually thanks for reminding me starting Majora's Mask for the vibes.  Giga Man One Winged Slayer Member Oct 27, 2017 23,197 I thought it was weird Nintendo would put one out in the first place, but nowadays, I don't really care. I thought Nintendo had abandoned it anyway.   Grunty Member Oct 28, 2017 10,029 Gruntilda’s Lair I LOVE the timeline and think it's mostly pretty straight forward. It's not really complicated. The one thing I look forward to anytime a new Zelda game is its timeline placement. I get so much more enjoyment out of the games thanks to it. Also, don't want to spoil Echoes of Wisdom for anyone, but its placement and how a portion of the story of that game answers something about the timeline that was never really being asked to begin with was really darn cool. Something new to think about now when playing the games, particularly Ocarina of Time.  Houtarou Oreki Member Dec 31, 2021 99 poptire said: I hope they make it even more crazy. I haven't seen where Echoes of Wisdom lives, but I hope it's super weird. Click to expand... Click to shrink... According to the official Zelda site, they put it in the Hero Defeated branch, just after Tri-Force Heroes and before the big gap leading to the original NES Zelda. HISTORY | Zelda Portal | Nintendo Introducing the history of Hyrule, the setting for The Legend of the Zelda series. www.nintendo.com   JasperMyst Powered by Friendship™ Member Sep 25, 2023 805 Giga Man said: I thought it was weird Nintendo would put one out in the first place, but nowadays, I don't really care. I thought Nintendo had abandoned it anyway. Click to expand... Click to shrink... They haven't which is quite hilarious but I'll take it 😂   Neutron Member Jun 2, 2022 3,531 Sandstar said: I guess the part I don't like is that the original legend of zelda is from the "bad" timeline. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I agree - although not so much about the idea of a "bad timeline", but just that it kinda makes it... non-canonical? Link could fail at any point, creating other failure timelines. So why is this one somehow a "real" timeline and not just a what-if like any other point of failure?  Sandstar Member Oct 28, 2017 8,165 Neutron said: I agree - although not so much about the idea of a "bad timeline", but just that it kinda makes it... non-canonical? Link could fail at any point, creating other failure timelines. So why is this one somehow a "real" timeline and not just a what-if like any other point of failure? Click to expand... Click to shrink... Yeah, i guess that's what I mean, it's non-canon. It just kind of leaves a bad taste in my mouth.  SupersonicHypertonic Member Apr 20, 2022 3,530 poptire said: I completely understand the frustration. I like to believe the OoT split happened because that singular moment in time was special. Like how Doc Brown believes there's something about November 5, 1955 that makes it cosmically important. Click to expand... Click to shrink... That could be a solution why OoT creates a split but since there isn't a reason you could easily argue other games are special and could/should timelines. SS has stupid time travel at the end where Link destroys the present imprisoned (AKA Demise) using the Triforce but also goes back in time to destroy Demise.....so how can the present imprisoned exist? Surely that could create 2 timelines (or 3 if Link dies) especially as this Link is the first to use the Triforce and this Zelda is the direct reincarnation of Hylia so they should have special privileges. Zelda team needs a few people to say the very least get the skeleton of the timeline to make sense and not contradict itself at times.  Last edited: Yesterday at 10:03 PM StraySheep It's Pronounced "Aerith" Member Oct 26, 2017 9,157 Rockodile said: I think it's pretty fun, and it's easy to ignore if you don't care. Don't understand why some people get so pissed off about it. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Same  OP OP poptire Avatar Wrecking Crew The Fallen Oct 25, 2017 15,552 A good way to "fix" the timeline(s) is to say it's all based on in-continuity folklore and hearsay, so any errors or impossibilities it has are entirely man-made, as the citizens of Hyrule who are trying to figure it out also don't really know.   WhiteRabbitEXE Member Oct 25, 2017 15,094 Arizona Literally my only issue is the failed hero timeline. It's just so, so silly. But whatever, it's not a big deal lol   Jane Member Oct 17, 2018 1,626 The problem isn't the complexity. The problem is that Nintendo clearly didn't give a fuck about the lore being consistent or the stories connecting outside of direct sequels when they made the games, but they're now trying to pretend after the fact that it's all connected. The "doomed" timeline has never been hinted at and came out of nowhere.   Berordn One Winged Slayer Member Oct 26, 2017 10,711 NoVA poptire said: A good way to "fix" the timeline(s) is to say it's all based on in-continuity folklore and hearsay, so any errors or impossibilities it has are entirely man-made, as the citizens of Hyrule who are trying to figure it out also don't really know. Click to expand... Click to shrink... this has always been how i've viewed it the timelines existing is whatever, but the actual games are retellings and reinterpretations of legends and i think that's more fun than having a strictly true history to look at  Boopers Member Nov 1, 2020 4,358 Vermont usa I came in here to endorse Tingle, and the poll choices did not leave me disappointed. 🫡   OP OP poptire Avatar Wrecking Crew The Fallen Oct 25, 2017 15,552 Berordn said: this has always been how i've viewed it the timelines existing is whatever, but the actual games are retellings and reinterpretations of legends and i think that's more fun than having a strictly true history to look at Click to expand... Click to shrink... This kinda thing has always been enjoyable to me. And it can explain away literally any holes in any story. The magic bullet / infinite crutch of storytelling. George RR Martin should take notes. Boopers said: I came in here to endorse Tingle, and the poll choices did not leave me disappointed. 🫡 Click to expand... Click to shrink... Tingle Team represent  Servbot24 The Fallen Oct 25, 2017 47,579 It's fine. I don't really want a precise timeline of events. General allusions to a mystical history is better.   TheNormalMan Member Oct 27, 2017 149 Los Angeles, CA I love it and have always loved it. I never understood why people hated on it so much. You can just ignore it. When they revealed the downfall timeline in HH I thought it genius. It essentially established a way to justify any storyline moving forward. It also gave people more to talk about. And adjust their theories. There are still plenty of mysteries in the timeline—particularly in the BOTW/TotK area. I know they separated them but they can always add to it. Also, I know they never go into games with story in mind, but eventually the mechanics of a game might sync of pretty well with a specific area of the timeline. I love story heavy Zelda's. They don't all need to be that way but variety is the spice of life.  Hambulance Member Oct 30, 2017 2,296 I am ready for Into the Zeldaverse   Lump One Winged Slayer Member Oct 25, 2017 18,210 It does nothing for me, but I do highly enjoy watching others try and piece together the timeline, it is like watching non-problematic flat earth discourse from afar.   Tathanen One Winged Slayer Member Oct 25, 2017 7,176 WhiteRabbitEXE said: Literally my only issue is the failed hero timeline. It's just so, so silly. But whatever, it's not a big deal lol Click to expand... Click to shrink... It's weird and I'm not a huge fan, they had to contend with the fact that while there are multiple timelines the LTTP branch is a separate canon, not a timeline. So I can understand the logic of basing it on a What If scenario, particularly since OOT kinda straddles the two. In their shoes tho I'd have probably just called those games "old legends of Hyrule" or something and not tried to draw a line between them and the rest. To the thread question: yes the timeline is my life. 
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  • Rare ‘spider star’ spotted consuming its companion

    Nature, Published online: 22 May 2025; doi:10.1038/d41586-025-01633-8A spinning neutron star orbits the remnants of a once-massive companion it has stripped to its core.
    #rare #spider #star #spotted #consuming
    Rare ‘spider star’ spotted consuming its companion
    Nature, Published online: 22 May 2025; doi:10.1038/d41586-025-01633-8A spinning neutron star orbits the remnants of a once-massive companion it has stripped to its core. #rare #spider #star #spotted #consuming
    Rare ‘spider star’ spotted consuming its companion
    www.nature.com
    Nature, Published online: 22 May 2025; doi:10.1038/d41586-025-01633-8A spinning neutron star orbits the remnants of a once-massive companion it has stripped to its core.
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  • Emergence of Calabi–Yau manifolds in high-precision black-hole scattering

    Nature, Published online: 14 May 2025; doi:10.1038/s41586-025-08984-2A new, highest-precision analytical result for solving the gravitational two-body problem of black hole or neutron star scattering reveals the emergence of Calabi–Yau manifolds in the solution to the radiated energy in these encounters.
    #emergence #calabiyau #manifolds #highprecision #blackhole
    Emergence of Calabi–Yau manifolds in high-precision black-hole scattering
    Nature, Published online: 14 May 2025; doi:10.1038/s41586-025-08984-2A new, highest-precision analytical result for solving the gravitational two-body problem of black hole or neutron star scattering reveals the emergence of Calabi–Yau manifolds in the solution to the radiated energy in these encounters. #emergence #calabiyau #manifolds #highprecision #blackhole
    Emergence of Calabi–Yau manifolds in high-precision black-hole scattering
    www.nature.com
    Nature, Published online: 14 May 2025; doi:10.1038/s41586-025-08984-2A new, highest-precision analytical result for solving the gravitational two-body problem of black hole or neutron star scattering reveals the emergence of Calabi–Yau manifolds in the solution to the radiated energy in these encounters.
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  • The End of the Universe May Arrive Surprisingly Soon

    May 16, 20253 min readThe Universe May End Sooner Than Scientists Had ExpectedA new study suggests the universe's end could occur much sooner than previously thought. But don't worry, that ultimate cosmic conclusion would still be in the unimaginably distant futureBy Sharmila Kuthunur & SPACE.com An illustration of the remnants of an ancient, dead planetary system orbiting a white dwarf star. New calculations suggest that white dwarfs and other long-lived celestial objects are decaying faster than previously realized. NASA/ZUMA Press Wire Service/ZUMAPRESS.com/Alamy Live NewsAs the story of our cosmos moves forward, stars will slowly burn out, planets will freeze over, and black holes will devour light itself. Eventually, on timescales so long humanity will never witness them, the universe will fade into darkness.But if you've ever wondered exactly when it all might end, you may find it oddly comforting, or perhaps a bit unsettling, to know that someone has actually done the math. As it turns out, this cosmic finale might arrive sooner than scientists previously thought.Don't worry, though — "sooner" still means a mind-bending 10 to the power of 78 years from now. That is a 1 followed by 78 zeros, which is unimaginably far into the future. However, in cosmic terms, this estimate is a dramatic advancement from the previous prediction of 10 to the power of 1,100 years, made by Falcke and his team in 2023.On supporting science journalismIf you're enjoying this article, consider supporting our award-winning journalism by subscribing. By purchasing a subscription you are helping to ensure the future of impactful stories about the discoveries and ideas shaping our world today."The ultimate end of the universe comes much sooner than expected, but fortunately it still takes a very long time," Heino Falcke, a theoretical astrophysicist at the Radboud University in the Netherlands, who led the new study, said in a statement.The team's new calculations focus on predicting when the universe's most enduring celestial objects — the glowing remnants of dead stars such as white dwarfs and neutron stars — will ultimately fade away.This gradual decay is driven by Hawking radiation, a concept proposed by physicist Stephen Hawking in the 1970s. The theory suggests a peculiar process occurs near the event horizon — the point of no return — around black holes. Normally, virtual pairs of particles are constantly created by what are known as quantum fluctuations. These particle pairs pop in and out of existence, rapidly annihilating each other. Near a black hole's event horizon, however, the intense gravitational field prevents such annihilation. Instead, the pair is separated: one particle, one carrying negative energy, falls into the black hole, reducing its mass, while the other escapes into space.Over incredibly long timescales, Hawking's theory suggests this process causes the black hole to slowly evaporate, eventually vanishing.Falcke and his team extended this idea beyond black holes to other compact objects with strong gravitational fields. They found that the "evaporation time" of other objects emitting Hawking radiation depends solely on their densities. This is because unlike black hole evaporation, which is driven by the presence of an event horizon, this more general form of decay is driven by the curvature of spacetime itself.The team's new findings, described in a paper published Mondayin the Journal of Cosmology and Astroparticle Physics on Monday, offer a new estimate for how long it takes white dwarf stars to dissolve into nothingness. Surprisingly, the team found that neutron stars and stellar-mass black holes decay over the same timescale: about 10 to the power of 67 years. This was unexpected, as black holes have stronger gravitational fields and were thought to evaporate faster."But black holes have no surface," Michael Wondrak, a postdoctoral researcher of astrophysics at Radboud University and a co-author of the study, said in the statement. "They reabsorb some of their own radiation, which inhibits the process."If even white dwarf stars and black holes eventually dissolve into nothing, what does that say about us? Perhaps it suggests meaning isn't found in permanence, but in the fleeting brilliance of asking questions like these — while the stars are still shining.Copyright 2025 Space.com, a Future company. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
    #end #universe #arrive #surprisingly #soon
    The End of the Universe May Arrive Surprisingly Soon
    May 16, 20253 min readThe Universe May End Sooner Than Scientists Had ExpectedA new study suggests the universe's end could occur much sooner than previously thought. But don't worry, that ultimate cosmic conclusion would still be in the unimaginably distant futureBy Sharmila Kuthunur & SPACE.com An illustration of the remnants of an ancient, dead planetary system orbiting a white dwarf star. New calculations suggest that white dwarfs and other long-lived celestial objects are decaying faster than previously realized. NASA/ZUMA Press Wire Service/ZUMAPRESS.com/Alamy Live NewsAs the story of our cosmos moves forward, stars will slowly burn out, planets will freeze over, and black holes will devour light itself. Eventually, on timescales so long humanity will never witness them, the universe will fade into darkness.But if you've ever wondered exactly when it all might end, you may find it oddly comforting, or perhaps a bit unsettling, to know that someone has actually done the math. As it turns out, this cosmic finale might arrive sooner than scientists previously thought.Don't worry, though — "sooner" still means a mind-bending 10 to the power of 78 years from now. That is a 1 followed by 78 zeros, which is unimaginably far into the future. However, in cosmic terms, this estimate is a dramatic advancement from the previous prediction of 10 to the power of 1,100 years, made by Falcke and his team in 2023.On supporting science journalismIf you're enjoying this article, consider supporting our award-winning journalism by subscribing. By purchasing a subscription you are helping to ensure the future of impactful stories about the discoveries and ideas shaping our world today."The ultimate end of the universe comes much sooner than expected, but fortunately it still takes a very long time," Heino Falcke, a theoretical astrophysicist at the Radboud University in the Netherlands, who led the new study, said in a statement.The team's new calculations focus on predicting when the universe's most enduring celestial objects — the glowing remnants of dead stars such as white dwarfs and neutron stars — will ultimately fade away.This gradual decay is driven by Hawking radiation, a concept proposed by physicist Stephen Hawking in the 1970s. The theory suggests a peculiar process occurs near the event horizon — the point of no return — around black holes. Normally, virtual pairs of particles are constantly created by what are known as quantum fluctuations. These particle pairs pop in and out of existence, rapidly annihilating each other. Near a black hole's event horizon, however, the intense gravitational field prevents such annihilation. Instead, the pair is separated: one particle, one carrying negative energy, falls into the black hole, reducing its mass, while the other escapes into space.Over incredibly long timescales, Hawking's theory suggests this process causes the black hole to slowly evaporate, eventually vanishing.Falcke and his team extended this idea beyond black holes to other compact objects with strong gravitational fields. They found that the "evaporation time" of other objects emitting Hawking radiation depends solely on their densities. This is because unlike black hole evaporation, which is driven by the presence of an event horizon, this more general form of decay is driven by the curvature of spacetime itself.The team's new findings, described in a paper published Mondayin the Journal of Cosmology and Astroparticle Physics on Monday, offer a new estimate for how long it takes white dwarf stars to dissolve into nothingness. Surprisingly, the team found that neutron stars and stellar-mass black holes decay over the same timescale: about 10 to the power of 67 years. This was unexpected, as black holes have stronger gravitational fields and were thought to evaporate faster."But black holes have no surface," Michael Wondrak, a postdoctoral researcher of astrophysics at Radboud University and a co-author of the study, said in the statement. "They reabsorb some of their own radiation, which inhibits the process."If even white dwarf stars and black holes eventually dissolve into nothing, what does that say about us? Perhaps it suggests meaning isn't found in permanence, but in the fleeting brilliance of asking questions like these — while the stars are still shining.Copyright 2025 Space.com, a Future company. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. #end #universe #arrive #surprisingly #soon
    The End of the Universe May Arrive Surprisingly Soon
    www.scientificamerican.com
    May 16, 20253 min readThe Universe May End Sooner Than Scientists Had ExpectedA new study suggests the universe's end could occur much sooner than previously thought. But don't worry, that ultimate cosmic conclusion would still be in the unimaginably distant futureBy Sharmila Kuthunur & SPACE.com An illustration of the remnants of an ancient, dead planetary system orbiting a white dwarf star. New calculations suggest that white dwarfs and other long-lived celestial objects are decaying faster than previously realized. NASA/ZUMA Press Wire Service/ZUMAPRESS.com/Alamy Live NewsAs the story of our cosmos moves forward, stars will slowly burn out, planets will freeze over, and black holes will devour light itself. Eventually, on timescales so long humanity will never witness them, the universe will fade into darkness.But if you've ever wondered exactly when it all might end, you may find it oddly comforting, or perhaps a bit unsettling, to know that someone has actually done the math. As it turns out, this cosmic finale might arrive sooner than scientists previously thought.Don't worry, though — "sooner" still means a mind-bending 10 to the power of 78 years from now. That is a 1 followed by 78 zeros, which is unimaginably far into the future. However, in cosmic terms, this estimate is a dramatic advancement from the previous prediction of 10 to the power of 1,100 years, made by Falcke and his team in 2023.On supporting science journalismIf you're enjoying this article, consider supporting our award-winning journalism by subscribing. By purchasing a subscription you are helping to ensure the future of impactful stories about the discoveries and ideas shaping our world today."The ultimate end of the universe comes much sooner than expected, but fortunately it still takes a very long time," Heino Falcke, a theoretical astrophysicist at the Radboud University in the Netherlands, who led the new study, said in a statement.The team's new calculations focus on predicting when the universe's most enduring celestial objects — the glowing remnants of dead stars such as white dwarfs and neutron stars — will ultimately fade away.This gradual decay is driven by Hawking radiation, a concept proposed by physicist Stephen Hawking in the 1970s. The theory suggests a peculiar process occurs near the event horizon — the point of no return — around black holes. Normally, virtual pairs of particles are constantly created by what are known as quantum fluctuations. These particle pairs pop in and out of existence, rapidly annihilating each other. Near a black hole's event horizon, however, the intense gravitational field prevents such annihilation. Instead, the pair is separated: one particle, one carrying negative energy, falls into the black hole, reducing its mass, while the other escapes into space.Over incredibly long timescales, Hawking's theory suggests this process causes the black hole to slowly evaporate, eventually vanishing.Falcke and his team extended this idea beyond black holes to other compact objects with strong gravitational fields. They found that the "evaporation time" of other objects emitting Hawking radiation depends solely on their densities. This is because unlike black hole evaporation, which is driven by the presence of an event horizon, this more general form of decay is driven by the curvature of spacetime itself.The team's new findings, described in a paper published Monday (May 12) in the Journal of Cosmology and Astroparticle Physics on Monday (May 12), offer a new estimate for how long it takes white dwarf stars to dissolve into nothingness. Surprisingly, the team found that neutron stars and stellar-mass black holes decay over the same timescale: about 10 to the power of 67 years. This was unexpected, as black holes have stronger gravitational fields and were thought to evaporate faster."But black holes have no surface," Michael Wondrak, a postdoctoral researcher of astrophysics at Radboud University and a co-author of the study, said in the statement. "They reabsorb some of their own radiation, which inhibits the process."If even white dwarf stars and black holes eventually dissolve into nothing, what does that say about us? Perhaps it suggests meaning isn't found in permanence, but in the fleeting brilliance of asking questions like these — while the stars are still shining.Copyright 2025 Space.com, a Future company. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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