Microsoft Gaming Chief Phil Spencer on ‘A Minecraft Movie’ Gamble, ‘Fallout’ Season 2 and Mixing Hollywood Pursuits With Xbox Biz Priorities
The execs at Microsoft, Warner Bros. and Legendary can now breathe a collective sigh of relief as “A Minecraft Movie” proves to be a certified hit after its second big weekend at the box office.
Heading into the Jack Black and Jason Momoa-led movie’s April 4 launch, uncertainty surrounding how the project would perform was high, but Microsoft Gaming CEO Phil Spencer was ready for whatever reaction was coming. Hopes were high amid the company’s hit “Fallout” TV series at Amazon, though the risk was clear following the cancellation of its “Halo” adaptation at Paramount+, not to mention the mixed results for projects from competitors: for every “The Last of Us” and “The Super Mario Bros. Movie,” there seems to always be a “Borderlands” movie that knocks the genre back a peg.
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But the gaming giant’s desire to take the risk on a move into Hollywood outweighed the fear of a flop, and the gamble proved to be worth it for Spencer, “Minecraft” developer Mojang and Microsoft’s franchise-focused team, led by Kayleen Walters.
Spencer spoke with Variety for a feature story ahead of the movie’s release and, along with his hopes for “A Minecraft Movie,” revealed plans for future Microsoft IP adaptations, including “Fallout” Season 2, while balancing Microsoft Gaming and Xbox’s first priority: video games.
What will be your metric for success for “A Minecraft Movie” within Microsoft?
I’m going to come back to respecting our player community. “Minecraft” is such a big community of players and creators already — obviously, with the time that the game’s been in the market over 15 years now — and just incredibly successful in the video game space. So when we do something like this, the opportunity is for some to bring “Minecraft” to them. Maybe they don’t play video games, and this is an opportunity for them to see it on the big screen, “What is this ‘Minecraft’ thing?” and get invested in it. But almost more important to me are the people who have been playing, who have been part of the community, and when they see this, they’re proud. That “Minecraft is something that they’ve been investing in with their time and they see it represented on the big screen and doing well now. That is the high order for me: how do people feel? Does this respect the IP? Does it respect the franchises?
Then how it flows through to the business is, we will see more players playing the game across all platforms. And, obviously, the game has the business models to allow people to invest as they’re playing, and the business can perform, and that’ll be the real world metric for us — looking at the impact that the movie has, as it raises awareness. “Minecraft” is something that’s been around long enough, and it’s a successful business, that this has to be additive to what we’re doing, because anything that might take away from the quality and expectation of the video game could be so damaging. That’s why it’s taken us a while through this process to make sure that we find the right partner, we’ve got the right creative ideas, and we want to make the community proud with how we continue to be shepherds of this world.
With that in mind, how do you decide what IP you’re willing to take a risk on, and manage expectations and prepare for the chance the movie underperforms?
It starts with the fact we’re in the entertainment business. And whether you’re building games, movies, television, doing an album, you have to accept that you’re going to have a hit rate and it’s not going to be 100%, and making sure the culture inside of the teams is, “We can do new IP. We can do new games. Some things will vastly exceed our expectations, and some, we will be disappointed by the results, and let’s learn and go forward as an organization.” And that’s just got to be something, even in the game space alone, about the culture of being in Microsoft Gaming and Xbox.
So then when you look at this and you say, OK, these kind of opportunities of a place that we’re not native as creators, we build video games, I really start from, does the team have a unique point of view around what they want to get done? Have they found a partner that really understands the franchise and the core of what these worlds are? And then support them. And I will say, support them when something turns out to be crazy successful, and also support them when something isn’t as successful. The next thing is always the most important thing and you got to make sure that you have a culture of teams that are willing to take risks and bets on doing kind of cool, innovative, new things. And I think the “Minecraft Movie” will be one of those.
What are your goals for how you want Microsoft to be viewed within Hollywood and the larger entertainment industry outside of the gaming biz?
I’ve been in video games for quite a while, and I would say for a long time, I think there was a certain amount of envy in the video game space when looking at movies and television. Of their storytelling capability, the worlds that they had built, whether it’s “Star Wars” or “Star Trek,” the things that we grew up loving. And I’m very proud of the fact that the games industry is now being seen as a place where really deep stories and characters are told. Deep enough that they can be realized in a different medium, through a movie or a television show. “The Last of Us,” the “Mario” movie, I’ll even go to “Indiana Jones and the Great Circle,” the game we released in December, which I think is one of the best “Indiana Jones” stories. Forget about playing the video game, it’s a really well done story that fits with Indiana Jones and his archeology background and traveling the globe and seeing all these fantastic spaces. Could you do a movie around that same kind of story? Absolutely you could. I think it’s deep enough to support that.
So for us, as part of the games industry, I want our worlds and the characters that our creators have built to feel deep enough, quality enough and, frankly, successful enough that they could be realized in TV and movies, and even other places. I think movies went through books, when you think about things like “Lord of the Rings,” and then they kind of moved into comics with the whole Marvel and “Batman,” all of this. And you really see that industry turning its view to video games, because they have a large community, and the stories are actually rich and deep enough. And I love that. And as a player in the video game space, I think it’s fantastic that our worlds can reach new customers, new viewers.
Is there Microsoft IP that you think shouldn’t be adapted, or is it more, anything could be, it’s just about how it’s done. Do you try to do “Warcraft” again? Would you never do “Call of Duty?” Are there things that you wouldn’t touch or you could, but it needs to be done a certain way?
The video game business is successful by itself. It doesn’t need this outlet. You’ve got to start with a partner who understands our team and the story of that IP and then letting them work through the process. That’s my only barrier: let’s never turn this into something where it has to get done, every franchise has to have a game or a movie or a TV show, and it becomes more like licensing. It’s got to be about the creative outlet that linear media offers for our franchises.
A new trend coming up in entertainment is that people want to develop new IP and own it from the beginning across mediums: We’re going to make it from the beginning, we’re going to own it, we’re going to do the game, and we’re going to do the TV show, and we’re going to do the movie, and we’re going to make the physical products. Is Microsoft talking about doing that as you develop new things? Owning it and producing the adaptations yourselves?
Not really, if I’m being honest. It’s not about me — but I play video games at night, I don’t watch a lot of TV and movies. But we have a team with decades of history on building video games. And I love when we do new franchises. We just shipped “Avowed,” I just came out of a launch review of “South of Midnight,” a game that’s coming out, which is so awesome. I want our team staying very focused on, we’re a video game organization. Now, we can build worlds that can support these things showing up in traditional media, I think that’s awesome. But I’m really trying to keep us focused on being a great creator of interactive entertainment, video games, and then if these other opportunities show up, great. But we start most IP, almost all of our new IP, with, how is it going to play? Because the mechanic of playing the franchise is a unique ingredient we have in our process of video games, and I think that’s as important as world building and character building, and that’s the area I just want to see our teams continue to innovate in.
Due to the interactive and ongoing nature of the gaming industry, do you find Microsoft is looking more at what fans and users say and responding to it than a film studio or a TV studio would? And if you find you have more pressure to respond to those reactions than your studio partners?
Definitely in the video game space, the line between us as creators and our community of players is very thin. The conversation around “Minecraft” is such a great example. “Minecraft” today is as big as it’s ever been, and as a franchise, it is doing incredibly well. In the last year, I think two-thirds of our new “Minecraft” players came from outside the US, which is awesome. Getting feedback around maintaining and growing something like a “Minecraft” is really important. And in TV and movies, where you kind of do it and then you launch it and step back, it’s just very different than how our teams manage the communities. There’s content updates that come through. You have to be plugged into the sentiment and the desires, and you have to continue to evolve them. And I’m not gonna say it’s a better skill or worse skill than what TV or movie creators do, because I’m respectful of what they do, it’s just different how we manage communities. And I do think it’s one of the things that allows us sitting here 15-plus years later to see “Minecraft” where it is, as relevant today as it’s ever been.
You have “Fallout” Season 2 coming, there is a “Minecraft” TV series in the works at Netflix. What can you tease about those, as well as what other adaptation projects you might have in the works right now?
I think what I would say to our fans of this is we’re learning and growing through this process, which is giving us more confidence that we should do more. And we like it, and our community seems to get a lot of energy through it. I think we learn something through our creative process every time we find a good partner who has their point of view on how different parts of the story can be told. I’ll go all the way back to “Halo” [the TV series adaptation at Paramount+]. We learned from doing “Halo,” we learn from doing “Fallout.” All of these build on themselves and we’ll have, obviously, a couple that miss, it’s just kind of part of it. But I think what I’d say to the community that likes this work is, you’re going to see more, because we’re gaining confidence, and we’re learning through this. That’s why it’s hard for me to tease any specific thing, because while I know all of these things that are in the creative process, I want to give them time, and I don’t want to put any undue pressure on them. I like the stories that our teams are writing now, and the games that they’re launching. There’s just a lot of interest from traditional media and we’re happy about that.
On the gaming side, what titles are you most excited about for the rest of the year?
For us and the rest of this calendar year, I really feel great about the slate of games. We just had “Avowed” come out, and I have to go backwards and just say Obsidian continues to do a great job. We’ve obviously talked about “The Outer Worlds 2,” “South of Midnight,” “Doom.” There’s more stuff, some stuff that’s unannounced and I’m walking in my head to make sure I don’t leak anything.
With the successful launch of “Indiana Jones and the Great Circle” back in December, and the upcoming release on PlayStation, do you have larger plans for updates to that game, as well as a potential franchise?
I will say, we’re really happy with “Indy” and the players and the reception. We do think there’s life in that franchise, and I’m just gonna leave it at that. We’re launching on PlayStation here pretty soon. I think that’ll be a cool moment. I was really inspired by Machine Games taking someone else’s IP and doing something so unique, and I’m inspired about what that team can do next. Certain people were kind of pushing them on the first person versus third person. And I think once you play it, you realize you are Indy. But going forward, I also want to give the teams the ability to do our own games and our own franchises. We have a lot of room to tell new stories, as well. And I want to make sure that’s an option for us.
Switch 2 is set to be released soon. As you’ve begun to branch out with games available on PlayStation and Nintendo consoles, do you have plans for specific projects on Switch 2?
So we’ve been supporting Switch 1, I want to support Switch 2. Nintendo has been a great partner. We think it is a unique way for us to reach players who aren’t PC players, who aren’t players on Xbox. It lets us continue to grow our community of people that care about the franchises that we have, and that’s really important for us to make sure we continue to invest in our games. I’m really a big believer in what Nintendo means for this industry and us continuing to support them. And getting the support from them for our franchises, I think, is an important part of our future.
Does Nintendo revealing its next-gen console make you antsy to announce what Xbox has coming next in that space?
No. I think all of us in this industry should focus on our communities and the player base that we’re building. I get inspired by what a lot of different creators do and other platform holders. But I believe in the plans that we have. Obviously, we’re evolving what it means to be Xbox and meeting players in so many different places. There are 3 billion people who play video games on the planet and I get up every morning and think about how Xbox can be more relevant to the 3 billion people who play. And that’s through making sure we’re leading in how our games and our platform features can be available in as many places as possible, whether that’s Cloud, whether it’s people playing on PC, whether it’s people playing on console. So we’re really driven by trying to grow our franchises and our platform to be an important part of gaming for as many of those 3 billion gamers as we can reach.
How are you viewing Game Pass’s ongoing role in the larger Xbox business right now?
I’ll start with just how many people are playing games. And I’ve always thought about Game Pass as just another option for somebody who wants to play. We have many business models for people playing from free to play, buying games, discounted games, Game Pass is an option. So when I’m looking at Game Pass, I want to make sure the hours that people are playing continue to go up, that new people see this as a way for them to find and build their library of games, and we remain focused on that. Our biggest areas of growth right now are PC and Cloud, which makes sense, since consoles, all up, are a good business, they’re an established business, but they’re not really a growing segment in gaming. So we’ve got good growth on PC, we’ve got growth on Cloud, in terms of users and hours. And console continues to be a really healthy part of Game Pass. But there isn’t a unique need for Game Pass to be the only way for people to play. If everybody who’s a Game Pass subscriber instead decided to buy their games, that’s good for the business as well.
For me, I look at Game Pass as a healthy option for certain people. It’s not for everybody. If you play one or two games a year, Game Pass probably isn’t the right business model for you, you should just buy those two games, and that would make total sense. But I want you to have the choice. So we remain focused on everything that’s on Game Pass is also available to buy. We’re making those games available to buy in more places. And I look at the overall hours of people who are playing on Xbox, playing our games, and that’s a number that continues to grow fairly substantially, and that’s really the metric I think about for success. And Game Pass has been an important part of that, but I don’t try to solve for Game Pass specifically on its own. It’s kind of part of the equation for Xbox finding new players.
How are you preparing for game-specific tie-ins and updates for “Fallout” Season 2 and “A Minecraft Movie” release?
I was glad we had “Fallout 76,” and even “Fallout Shelter” grew when the “Fallout” television show came out. We had the “Fallout 4” remaster there so there was something for the community that was loving the TV show to try something new in “Fallout.” But I wouldn’t say we perfected that, of being ready and having a date when we knew the show was going to come out, and really we learned from it, is the best way of putting it. I think with “Minecraft,” we’re doing some things that are more unique, in terms of content and the alignment of the movie with the things that we’re doing. But this is a great example of us learning. Trying to align production schedules for new games and new movies at the same time, I think, is probably beyond our creative capability right now. And I don’t even know that that’s the goal. But for things like a “Minecraft” or a “Fallout,” things that are ongoing and have communities, it makes a ton of sense for us to allow people who love the movie or love the television show to celebrate that in the game. And I like the plans that the team has on “Minecraft” around this.
“A Minecraft Movie” is releasing on April 4, the 50th anniversary of Microsoft. How do you reflect on your own time at the company in this moment?
I’ll go to games role at Microsoft. I really love the role that gaming is playing to both shape the kind of customer view of what Microsoft is about. I often remind the leadership team here that our longest-running franchise inside all of Microsoft is “Flight Simulator.” It’s older than Windows, it’s older than Office. It’s true, the longest-running, still in development franchise inside the company is “Flight Sim.” But to see how gaming has actually always been around at Microsoft, from Adventure and kind of things that they did early on, but to the role that we play now, the organization plays now, I just think is awesome. I’ve been around for a majority of those 50 years working at this company, and it wasn’t always true that gaming was as front and center as it is now. But it’s inspiring to me, it’s inspiring to the team, the role that it plays, and I think it helps us as a company.
We have a much better customer and consumer and community sensibility through the experience that we have in gaming, and it’s one of the things that my team shares with the rest of the company. And these moments like “A Minecraft Movie” are examples of respecting community, making sure that they feel respected and heard through the products that we build — we do it in gaming, but it’s something that the whole company aspires to be. And I’ll say, personally, I started as an intern here in 1988, which I know is a crazy long time ago, but to see this company now at 50 years and everything it’s meant, it’s an inspiring moment, and I’m looking forward to the celebration.
This interview has been edited and condensed.
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