WWW.RESETERA.COM
Brandon Sheffield (Necrosoft Games, Insert Credit panellist) argues that GTA6 releasing "does the opposite of helping the industry"
doops.
Member
Jun 3, 2020
5,007
View: https://bsky.app/profile/brandon.insertcredit.com/post/3lojhkjpdmc2e
View: https://bsky.app/profile/brandon.insertcredit.com/post/3lojhrbesc22e
View: https://bsky.app/profile/brandon.insertcredit.com/post/3lojht6eoas2e
Sorry, didn't mean for the title to seem clickbaity (I accidentally pressed enter before I was done with the post)
This may seem like a reactionary view from him, but I have seen these posts echoed by several indie devs of all kinds, so clearly, he's not alone with these takes. Do you agree with his assessments?
Terbinator
Member
Oct 29, 2017
13,180
Absolutely agree with him about the money flowing in for GTA isn't going to work for everyone else in the way it was being suggested. One insane market mover papering over the cracks of the industry with Goliath numbers is just that.
Also like the weirdo posts with people clamouring for it to be $100, for some reason.
Klyka
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,465
Germany
Don't see anything wrong here
It just makes Rockstar more money and as he says is another forever games for GTA heads
RoKKeR
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,061
I also think the talk of GTA6 being some kind of industry savior is odd. Yes it will bring eyes, money, and potential new players, but it's also going to be an addition to the "black hole game" roster which has a well documented position of being detrimental to a lot of other games and angles in the industry over the past 5/10 years.
King Alamat
Member
Nov 22, 2017
9,271
I will throw out there that I bought a PS5 solely because I didn't want to wait an extra year for GTA VI to come out on the PC and have bought games I might not have otherwise if I didn't have the console. Then again, the easy counter to that is aside from Road 96, they were all AAA games I mostly got secondhand, so I can see where he's coming from.
inkblot
Member
Mar 27, 2024
1,075
I think the argument isn't that GTA will 1:1 directly flow money into other studios, but rather, its surge in culture sales and more will be an unmistakable soaring indicator to investors and people who put money into future studios and bets.
I don't like it either, but I think GTA will have that long term persuasive influence on the size and monetary impact of this industry when others are considering investing in it over the next few years.
HellofaMouse
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,311
with switch 2's imminent launch and ps5 pretty much keeping pace with ps4, i think console sales are fine with or without gta.
will the 'gta 6 money' make investors go "look at all this money, lets fund a bunch of new AAA ip"? ..i doubt it.
Renna Hazel
Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,155
I assume GTA will sell some consoles, which helps the industry overall. But I do agree with his main point that most people are purely talking about industry revenue when they mention GTA saving the industry, and the vast majority of that money is going to one company, and possibly the platform holders.
Jiraiya
Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,834
That's a lot of vitriol for GTA. Why he taking out his tantrum on people who want to play the game and R* for being the company that can make this type of game.
If GTA is a forever game for someone…what's the chances they were going to give that smaller game a chance in the first place.
CuriousTom92
Member
Jul 1, 2022
762
GTA 6 definitely will only help take 2 not the industry at wide but at the same time it also won't do the opposite of helping the industry.
Kemono
▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,561
Jason cleared that up and i don't understand what he's still not getting.
More console sales boosts the potential customer base for all games released on said consoles.
Also a good number of people wait till a GTA hits before buying new gaming hardware. After they're done they'll buy other games.
Minthara
Freelance Market Director
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
14,821
Montreal
Only thing I slightly disagree with is his point about a game driving console sales not mattering as much. It absolutely does matter, even to Indies, and relying solely on PC to do the heavy lifting for you is going to get tougher with each passing year due to the sheer volume of stuff releasing on Steam each day.
Relying solely on Steam, or PC as a whole, to make your money is only going to become a steeper hill, and if you want best chance of success, even as a small indie, you'll want your title on as many platforms as possible with as much reach as possible.
I've seen too much internal market data (and generated some of it myself) from a bunch of places now that I cautiously warn every developer I work with about doubling down too much on PC if you can also afford to release elsewhere.
He's right about GTA6 sucking all the air out of the room though.
Tsaki
Member
Feb 12, 2019
400
The industry is the industry. Him not caring about GTA is irrelevant. What a child.
Kyougar
Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
10,157
Nothing wrong with what he says.
If you need GTA6 to "survive" you are already dying.
Mikch85
Member
May 12, 2018
4,564
I'm on the same line of thought as this guy. More console sales is always good, but GTA VI will be another blackhole game, and that's the last thing this industry needs right now.
Flame Lord
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,686
I've been sensing a sense of entitlement from smaller/indie devs lately; I get that a big game like GTA or a shadow drop like Oblivion can harm their sales but... That's just the way it is? Whining about how GTA should be delayed forever sounds sort of childish.
Dust
C H A O S
Member
Oct 25, 2017
40,724
I have absolutely no idea if I should care who this person is or not. What is Necrosoft games?
345
Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,074
i think if you haven't bought a PS5 yet and GTA6 is the thing to sway your mind then you're not the sort of person the vast majority of developers or publishers should generally be courting.
no shade to said hypothetical person of course but i agree with brandon that the release doesn't have much to do with the "health of the industry".
derFeef
Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,082
Austria
Will there be a new GTA Online?
Can Rockstar live with the snake eating it's own tail? I bet yes, lol.
blueredandgold
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,559
I've only recently (as in, very) heard the term black hole in this context.
It's new to me at least.
In any case, glad to see the Eurogamer article get discussed more widely. Both Messrs Sheffield and Schreier hopefully either encourage or actually partake in a more long-form discussion.
The ad hominem attacks in the other thread were sadly quite emblematic of why we collectively can't speak about these things in a mature manner. Two very clever people in that conversation are clearly managing to have differing viewpoints and strangely aren't calling each other names or otherwise disparaging one another.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,797
inkblot said:
I think the argument isn't that GTA will 1:1 directly flow money into other studios, but rather, its surge in culture sales and more will be an unmistakable soaring indicator to investors and people who put money into future studios and bets.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
GTA is an anomaly though.
Rockstar has practically infinite time & money to make their games.
Investors aren't going to allow that much leeway for any other studio. They're going to expect a return in a year or two, tops.
Fisty
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,455
If you are making a console game that isn't releasing on PS4/XB1, I would imagine GTA6 helps that. Maybe not if you release it the same day, but it's not like games that released a month or two after GTA5 were flops
Ghostswillpass
One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
251
Brandon's not wrong, same thing happens with movies. And maybe it's exaggerated by the nightmare landscape of social media and the internet. When a thing with so much marketing, budget and anticipation is released, it just takes over the conversation.
You just need to see what happened yesterday where I couldn't go 5 minutes without seeing a post or someone wanting to talk to me about the new trailer.
Nere
Member
Dec 8, 2017
2,628
I also agree. Furthermore GTA6 is the definition of what is wrong with the industry. A triple AAA title of insane budget that takes more than a decade to release with insane detail that probably no other developer can replicate. I miss the times when Rockstar and other companies released multiple games per generation, instead we are lucky if we get one game per generations and we are supposed to celebrate that?
reksveks
Member
May 17, 2022
7,343
Some will get hurt, some will benefit.
Madao
Avalanche's One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,608
Panama
i somewhat lean towards what he's saying. most people who buy GTA don't buy other games and money going to GTA isn't going to most of the games that are struggling.
it's also a game that will be eating all attention whenever it releases. anyone else releasing close to it is pretty much walking into a wall.
Holundrian
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,037
I feel like that guy making the argument has not considered how fucking dumb investors are. If GTA6 pumps up the right graphs so people can bullshit project growth that very well might get more money into the industry what places who knows but I don't think it's very hard to see how a lot of investor movement is driven by dumbass hype just look at the reasons why everything with AI is booming no matter how little sense it actually makes.
Gavalanche
Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 21, 2021
25,575
I would love to think that GTA being a huge success will mean more investment into the industry, and maybe that is the case, but I can't see investors suddenly putting their money into indies and smaller projects even if that were to occur.
tokkun
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,144
If only the English language had a word that meant "the opposite of helping"...
These posts definitely come off as someone being argumentative on social media without having put too much thought into their position or how they are expressing it.
GillianSeed79
Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,043
While I agree and, of course he'd know better, but is the console market really not a concern for most developers? I feel like there's just as many, if not more, black hole games on PC and more competition? But otherwise, yeah, I feel like consoles are basically GTA/CoD/Madden/FOMO Fortnite boxes.
Reckheim
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,308
Nere said:
I also agree. Furthermore GTA6 is the definition of what is wrong with the industry. A triple AAA title of insane budget that takes more than a decade to release with insane detail that probably no other developer can replicate. I miss the times when Rockstar and other companies released multiple games per generation, instead we are lucky if we get one game per generations and we are supposed to celebrate that?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
there is plenty of 'low budget' games coming out all the time. Nothing wrong with a company deciding to spend as much time and as much money as they want on something like this.
AmFreak
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,169
doops. said:
This may seem like a reactionary view from him, but I have seen these posts echoed by several indie devs of all kinds, so clearly, he's not alone with these takes. Do you agree with his assessments?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yes, i have said for years in every "games should cost more" thread that the problem isn't the money in the market it's how that money is shared.
What do people even expect GTA6 to do console sales wise? We will be 5.5 years into the gen when it releases, the only people buying a console for it at launch will be people who have the money and got fomo. These people will overwhelmingly come from somewhere (PC, PS4) and the amount compared to the overall market will be tiny, so i don't see what everyone else is even supposed to get out of that.
Dust
C H A O S
Member
Oct 25, 2017
40,724
Industry from business perspective absolutely needs big hype nexus games, that's a fact. I agree with Jason way more here.
As for the indie scene, that is simply the reality of trillion games being available. Only the absolute gems/streamer phenomena will float.
derFeef
Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,082
Austria
Holundrian said:
I feel like that guy making the argument has not considered how fucking dumb investors are. If GTA6 pumps up the right graphs so people can bullshit project growth that very well might get more money into the industry what places who knows but I don't think it's very hard to see how a lot of investor movement is driven by dumbass hype just look at the reasons why everything with AI is booming no matter how little sense it actually makes.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
"I like the idea of your game you already put 2 years of heart and sweat into it, buuut have you seen this GTA game? Can you make something like that?"
Jiraiya
Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,834
Nere said:
I also agree. Furthermore GTA6 is the definition of what is wrong with the industry. A triple AAA title of insane budget that takes more than a decade to release with insane detail that probably no other developer can replicate. I miss the times when Rockstar and other companies released multiple games per generation, instead we are lucky if we get one game per generations and we are supposed to celebrate that?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yep. Celebrate that there is a company that is able to push their vision to the max. There's no reason R* would aim for lower than they're capable. There's always a unicorn.
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
Oct 26, 2017
28,891
reksveks said:
Some will get hurt, some will benefit.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This. And tbh not a single game in the whole industry will scratch the surface of this game whether in sales, or graphics and details or the budget prepared for it and obviously its metascore.
random88
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,783
Not US
Well yeah. It is going to boost console sales by a few millions, but I don't think it's going to help the industry in general as much as everyone hypes it is going to.
King_Moc
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,765
He is very obviously absolutely correct
GillianSeed79
Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,043
I wonder if we could ever go back to the 90s era wherein the PC gaming market and console market were two completely different markets wherein the PC market was for rich enthusiasts playing PC-centric games and consoles were mass market $299 or bust devices that were generations behind PCs but game dev was cheap enough that you could sell 150K copies of a game and be considered a success.
Arn
Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,054
When a console is $500 and GTA is $100, good luck selling anything else to the average new player. Games are far too expensive, which is also one of the industry's most obvious limiting factors.
Aadiboy
Member
Nov 4, 2017
4,456
I mean, it'll definitely help PS5 sales. Even if only a tiny fraction of those who buy a PS5 for GTA6 buy another game, that's still a huge win for the industry.
Ant_17
Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,862
Greece
What is the argument? Like, what game does help the industry? None.
Holundrian
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,037
derFeef said:
"I like the idea of your game you already put 2 years of heart and sweat into it, buuut have you seen this GTA game? Can you make something like that?"
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's even less about making stuff like gta but more like "look how many gamers there are out and about again waiting to be served once they are done with gta" or some kind of similar bullshit graph that focuses on throwing big numbers in people's faces while promising a big future of big money.
Also indie games barely matter in this equation given most of them at most get funding through smaller publishers or are self funded to begin with and not affected by investing trends.
Like people remember why covid boosted so many companies up so massively based on projections that somehow promised infinite growth post pandemic because clearly somehow it wasn't obvious that once the restrictions lifted many people would spend less time with home entertainment. It's not about reality it's about how well you can sell something with existing data.
Ertleon
Member
Jun 28, 2023
484
Sweden
It's not even just about console sales. But also getting people that have consoles or even PCs to game more. Beyond that GTA 6 is also a big cultural event that will also bring more eyes to the games industry as a whole. Like Jason says it will get investors excited.
So I definitely think GTA 6s release is a positive thing for the industry.
ascagnel
Member
Mar 29, 2018
2,604
HellofaMouse said:
with switch 2's imminent launch and ps5 pretty much keeping pace with ps4, i think console sales are fine with or without gta.
will the 'gta 6 money' make investors go "look at all this money, lets fund a bunch of new AAA ip"? ..i doubt it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think "GTA 6 money" will have the net opposite effect: the cost of competing with GTA/COD/entrenched titles will go up even more, so why bother trying?
Minthara
Freelance Market Director
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
14,821
Montreal
blueredandgold said:
I've only recently (as in, very) heard the term black hole in this context.
It's new to me at least.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There's a bunch of "black holes" in media marketing! Avengers movies, Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto, the Superbowl, etc.
Just things that you want to avoid at all costs because the chance of you getting any kind of coverage, market share or people knowing you exist is basically nil.
SOME projects are able to use it to their advantage (often called counter-programming for those not interested in whatever the big thing is) but they tend to be hard to execute.
ProdigyZA
Member
Jun 9, 2024
1,416
Minthara said:
Only thing I slightly disagree with is his point about a game driving console sales not mattering as much. It absolutely does matter, even to Indies, and relying solely on PC to do the heavy lifting for you is going to get tougher with each passing year due to the sheer volume of stuff releasing on Steam each day.
Relying solely on Steam, or PC as a whole, to make your money is only going to become a steeper hill, and if you want best chance of success, even as a small indie, you'll want your title on as many platforms as possible with as much reach as possible.
I've seen too much internal market data (and generated some of it myself) from a bunch of places now that I cautiously warn every developer I work with about doubling down too much on PC if you can also afford to release elsewhere.
He's right about GTA6 sucking all the air out of the room though.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I assume you are talking about casual gamers who buy only 1 or two games like GTA, suddenly also wanting indies/AA games. PC gamers even after getting the console will majority stick with PC even having a console.
Kill3r7
Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,886
345 said:
i think if you haven't bought a PS5 yet and GTA6 is the thing to sway your mind then you're not the sort of person the vast majority of developers or publishers should generally be courting.
no shade to said hypothetical person of course but i agree with brandon that the release doesn't have much to do with the "health of the industry".
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Probably true but PS4 managed a record attach rate which inevitably benefited the indie industry as did the success of the Nintendo Switch. A bigger player pool, at least theoretically, affords indie devs an opportunity to convert some of them to paying customers for their game.
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,948
Kyougar said:
Nothing wrong with what he says.
If you need GTA6 to "survive" you are already dying.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Pretty much this.
Strings
Member
Oct 27, 2017
34,423
Schreier's response is basically what I had in mind coming into the thread. You do need to get the money people buzzing to get projects off the ground.
The response to that may be 'Well why the hell would the money people who want to invest in the next GTA invest in anything else?'
Cause there's only so much GTA or AAA that they can put money into. When they run out of those, they put money into the next best thing. It's how independant film funding works, the people giving you money would much rather be funding the next James Cameron movie after one of those comes out and makes a fuckton, but they'll settle for a share of your $15m thing because movies are making money and they want to be associated with them.
Last edited: 4 minutes ago