• No Kings: protests in the eye of the storm

    As President Donald Trump kicked off a birthday military parade on the streets of Washington, DC, what’s estimated as roughly 2,000 events were held across the US and beyond — protesting Trump and Elon Musk’s evisceration of government services, an unprecedented crackdown by Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and countless other actions from the administration in its first five months. Held under the title “No Kings”, they’re the latest in several mass protests, following April’s Hands Off events and a wave of Tesla Takedown demonstrations in March.As The Verge’s Tina Nguyen went to downtown DC, we also sent reporters to No Kings demonstrations spanning the country, plus a “No Tyrants” event in the UK. How would they unfold after promises of “very heavy force” against protesters in the capital, after the deployment of thousands of military troops in a move a judge has bluntly called illegal, and after promises to “liberate” the city of Los Angeles from its “burdensome leadership” by local elected officials? What about the overnight killing of a Minnesota Democratic state representative and her husband, and the shooting of a Democratic state senator and his wife?The answer, at the events we attended, was fairly calmly — even against a backdrop of chaos.Downtown Los Angeles, CaliforniaAn inflatable baby Donald Trump, dressed in a diaper, hovered over throngs of people rallying outside of Los Angeles City Hall. Demonstrators outnumbered clumps of California National Guard members in fatigues posted up along sidewalks. “Go home to your families, we don’t need you in our streets,” one young person wearing a long braid down her back tells them while marching past. “Trump come catch these hands foo!” the back of her sign reads. I can’t see what the front says, but I can tell there’s an empty bag of Cheetos pasted to it.The big baby joins the march, floating through the streets of Downtown LA over demonstrators. A flatbed truck rolls ahead of it, the band — maybe LA’s own Ozomatli? — singing “We don’t like Trump” to the tune of “We Want The Funk.” Ducking inside Grand Central Market from the march, I talk to Puck and Twinkle Toes — two demonstrators in line for the public restrooms. Twinkle Toes tells me she’s part of an activist clown collective called Imp and Circumstance, wearing pink and white clown makeup and a striped pink and white bow wrapped around a loose hair bun atop her head. She’s here exercising her right to free speech, she says. Demonstrators in Los Angeles marched alongside an inflatable Donald Trump baby dressed in a diaper.“The more people that are out here, the more we know that this is not okay. That we don’t want an autocrat. We want democracy,” Puck tells me, adding that the Pride March in Hollywood last weekend was “nothing but love and sunshine” despite protests and burning driverless cars making headlines in downtown. “The news tries to make you think all of LA is rioting. It’s not.” Puck says.Back out on the streets, a young man quickly writes “Fuck ICE” on a black wall with white spray paint before a group of older demonstrators wearing floppy hats shushes him away — warning him that tagging will only attract more law enforcement.Further along, another older man with tufts of white hair sticking out under his Lakers cap walks stiffly and slowly along under the summer sun. A Mexican flag draped across his shoulders, he crosses Hope Street. A young man wearing a Nike cap makes his way over to ask if he wants water; the old man accepts a bottle and keeps walking without stopping. The march has looped around downtown, and is coming to an end back at City Hall. As I make my way to my bus stop, a line of police vehicles — sirens blasting — whizzes past me, back toward the crowd still gathering around City Hall.The Los Angeles Police Department issued a dispersal order for parts of downtown Los Angeles later in the afternoon, citing people “throwing rocks, bricks, bottles and other objects.” Law enforcement reportedly cleared crowds using gas, and the LAPD authorized the use of “less lethal” force.— Justine CalmaPortland, OregonFour different “No Kings” protests in the greater Portland area on Saturday drew massive crowds of tens of thousands across the city. Various activists, government officials, and representatives for politicians spoke at the rallies, which also featured music and live performances.Protesters of all ages came with dogs, strollers, flags, banners, and hand-made signs. At the downtown waterfront, some tourist boats appeared to still be departing, but the bike rental standwas closed for the day with a hand-lettered explanation reading “No crowns, no thrones, no kings” and “Americans against oligarchy.” Women appearing to be organizers passed out free American flags; many attendees came with their own American flags modified to fly upside down. Most protesters brought signs expressing a wide range of sentiments on the theme of “No Kings.” Some signs were surprisingly verbosewe’d all still be British”) while others were more succinct. Others opted for simple images, such as a picture of a crown crossed out, or — less frequently — a guillotine. Image: Sarah JeongThe waterfront park area was filled with people from the shoreline to the curb of the nearest street, where protesters held up signs to passing cars that honked in approval. The honking of a passing fire truck sent the crowd into an uproarious cheer. Portland is about a thousand miles from the border with Mexico, but the flag of its distant neighbor nation has emerged as protest iconography in solidarity with Los Angeles. The rainbow pride flag was flown as often as the Mexican flag. Military veterans were scattered throughout the crowd, some identifying themselves as having seen action in conflicts spanning from Vietnam to Afghanistan. Emanuel, an Air Force veteran, told me that he had turned out in defense of the constitution and due process, saying, “Nobody has any rights if one person doesn’t have any rights.” Image: Sarah JeongAnger was directed at ICE and the mass deportations all throughout the day, in signage, in chants, and in rally speeches. The previous night, about 150 people protested at a local ICE facility — coincidentally located by the Tesla dealership — a mile south of downtown, near a highway exit. The ICE facility protests, which have been continuous for some days, have been steadily building up. A couple of “No Kings” signs were present on Friday.. Demonstrators stood on the curb urging passing cars to “Honk if you hate fascists,” successfully eliciting car horns every few seconds, including some from a pristine white Tesla. Federal law enforcement in camo and helmets, their faces obscured, maced and shot at protesters with pepper balls, targeting them through the gates and sniping at them from the rooftop of the building. A handful of protesters — many wearing gas masks and respirators — formed phalanx formations in the driveway, wielding umbrellas and handmade shields. On Saturday, a speaker at one of the “No Kings” rallies advertised the occupation of the ICE facility, saying, “We’re a sanctuary city.” The crowd — replete with American flags both upside down and right side up — cheered. — Sarah JeongNew Port Richey, FloridaNearly every intersection on Pasco County’s State Road 54 looks the same: a cross-section of strip malls, each anchored by a Walmart or Target or Publix, surrounded by a mix of restaurants, nail salons, and gas stations. It’s not an environment that is particularly conducive to protests, but hundreds of people turned out in humid, 90-plus degree weather anyway. The overall size of the crowd is hard to determine, but it’s larger than I — and other attendees — anticipated, given the local demographics.New Port Richey, FL. Image: Gaby Del ValleEveryone is on the sidewalk; an organizer with a megaphone tells people to use crosswalks if they’re going to attempt to brave the six-lane highway. Two days earlier, Governor Ron DeSantis said Floridians could legally run over protesters on the street if they feel “threatened.” New Port Richey, FL. Image: Gaby Del ValleSo far, most drivers seem friendly. There are lots of supportive honks. One woman rolls down her window and thanks the protesters. “I love you! I wish I could be with you, but I have to work today!” she yells as she drives away. Not everyone is amenable. A man in a MAGA hat marches through the crowd waving a “thin green line” flag and yelling “long live the king!” as people in the crowd call him a traitor. A pickup truck drives by blasting “Ice Ice Baby,” waving another pro-law enforcement flag. The protesters have flags, too: American flags large and small, some upside down; Mexican; Ukrainian; Palestinian; Canadian; different configurations of pride and trans flags. Their signs, like their flags, illustrate their diverse reasons for attending: opposition to Trump’s “big beautiful” funding bill, DOGE’s budget cuts, and ICE arrests; support for immigrants, government workers, and Palestinians. One woman wears an inflatable chicken suit. Her friend pulls an effigy of Trump — dressed to look both like an eighteenth-century monarch, a taco, and a chicken — alongside her.New Port Richey, FL. Image: Gaby Del ValleMost of the demonstrators are on the older side, but there are people of all ages in attendance. “I thought it was going to be maybe 20 people with a couple of signs,” Abby, 24, says, adding that she’s pleasantly surprised at both the turnout and the fact that most of the protesters are of retirement age. Abe, 20, tells me this is his first protest. Holding a sign that says “ICE = GESTAPO,” he tells me he came out to support a friend who is Mexican. Three teenagers walk by with signs expressing support for immigrants: “While Trump destroys America, we built it.” “Trump: 3 felonies. My parents: 0.” As I drive away, I notice nine counter-protesters off to the side, around the corner from the main event. They wave their own flags, but the demonstrators seemingly pay them no mind.— Gaby Del ValleHistoric Filipinotown, Los AngelesWearing a camo baseball cap — “Desert Storm Veteran” emblazoned on the front — Joe Arciaga greets a crowd of about 100 people in Los Angeles’ Historic Filipinotown around 9:00AM.“Good morning everyone, are you ready for some beautiful trouble?” Arciaga says into the megaphone, an American flag bandana wrapped around his wrist. The faces of Filipino labor leaders Philip Vera Cruz and Larry Itliong, who organized farm workers alongside Cesar Chavez, peer over his shoulders from a mural that lines the length of Unidad Park where Arciaga and a group called Lakas Collective helped organize this neighborhood No Kings rally. “I’m a Desert Storm veteran, and I’m a father of three and a grandfather of three, and I want to work for a future where democracy is upheld, due process, civil rights, the preservation of the rule of law — That’s all I want. I’m not a billionaire, I’m just a regular Joe, right?”, he tells The Verge.Joe Arciaga speaks to people at a rally in Historic Filipinotown, Los Angeles. Image: Justine Calma“I am mad as hell,” he says, when I ask him about the Army 250th anniversary parade Donald Trump has organized in Washington, DC coinciding with the president’s birthday. “The guy does not deserve to be honored, he’s a draft dodger, right?” Arciaga says. He’s “livid” that the President and DOGE have fired veterans working for federal agencies and slashed VA staff.Arciaga organizes the crowd into two lines that file out of the park to stand along Beverly Blvd., one of the main drags through LA. Arciaga has deputized a handful of attendees with security or medical experience with whistles to serve as “marshals” tasked with flagging and de-escalating any potentially risky situation that might arise. Johneric Concordia, one of the co-founders of the popular The Park’s Finest barbecue joint in the neighborhood, is MCing out on Beverly Blvd. He and Arciaga direct people onto the sidewalks and off the asphalt as honking cars zip by. In between chants of “No hate! No fear! Immigrants are welcome here!” and rap songs from LA artist Bambu that Concordia plays from a speaker, Concordia hypes up the organizers. “Who’s cool? Joe’s cool?” He spits into the microphone connected to his speaker. “Who’s streets? Our streets!” the crowd cheers. An hour later, a man sitting at a red light in a black Prius rolls down his window. “Go home!” he yells from the intersection. “Take your Mexican flag and go home!”The crowd mostly ignores him. One attendee on the corner holds up his “No Kings” sign to the Prius without turning his head to look at him. A few minutes later, a jogger in a blue t-shirt raises his fist as he passes the crowd. “Fuck yeah guys,” he says to cheers.By 10AM, the neighborhood event is coming to a close. Demonstrators start to trickle away, some fanning out to other rallies planned across LA today. Concordia is heading out too, microphone and speaker still in hand, “If you’re headed to downtown, watch out for suspicious crew cuts!” — Justine CalmaSan Francisco, California1/10Most of the crowd trickled out after 2pm, which was the scheduled end time of the protest, but hundreds stayed in the area. Image: Vjeran PavicLondon, UKLondon’s protest was a little different than most: it was almost entirely bereft of “No Kings” signs, thanks to the fact that about two miles away much larger crowds were gathered to celebrate the official birthday of one King Charles III. “We don’t have anything against King Charles,” Alyssa, a member of organizers Indivisible London, told me. And so, “out of respect for our host country as immigrants,” they instead set up shop in front of the US embassy with a tweaked message: “No kings, no crowns” became “no tyrants, no clowns.” London, UK. Image: Dominic PrestonOf the hundreds gathered, not everyone got the memo, with a few painted signs decrying kings and crowns regardless, and one brave Brit brandishing a bit of cardboard with a simple message: “Our king is better than yours!”London, UK. Image: Dominic PrestonStill, most of the crowd were on board, with red noses, clown suits, and Pennywise masks dotted throughout, plus costumes ranging from tacos to Roman emperors. “I think tyrants is the better word, and that’s why I dressed up as Caesar, because he was the original,” says Anna, a Long Island native who’s lived in London for three years. “Nobody likes a tyrant. Nobody. And they don’t do well, historically, but they destroy a lot.”For 90 minutes or so the crowd — predominantly American, judging by the accents around me — leaned into the circus theme. Speakers shared the stage with performers, from a comic singalong of anti-Trump protest songs to a protracted pantomime in which a woman in a banana costume exhorted the crowd to pelt a Donald Trump impersonator with fresh peels. London, UK. Image: Dominic PrestonDuring a break in festivities, Alyssa told the crowd, “The most threatening sound to an oligarch is laughter.”— Dominic PrestonProspect Park, Brooklyn, New YorkThe No Kings protest at Brooklyn’s Grand Army Plaza was a calmer affair. Instead of gathering under the picturesque memorial arch, protesters were largely sequestered to a corner right outside Prospect Park, with some streets blocked off by police. The weekly farmers market was in full swing, meaning people cradling bundles of rhubarb were swerving in and out of protest signs that read things like, “Hating Donald Trump is Brat” and “Is it time to get out the pitch forks?” Like during the Hands Off protest in April, New York got rain on Saturday.Prospect Park, Brooklyn. Image: Mia SatoThe area where protesters were gathered made it difficult to count the crowd, but there were hundreds — perhaps a few thousand — people that streamed in and out. At one point, some protesters began marching down the street alongside Prospect Park, while others stayed at Grand Army Plaza to chant, cheer, and hold signs up at oncoming vehicles. With its proximity to the public library, the park, and densely populated neighborhoods, the massive intersection is a high-foot traffic area. Cars blared their horns as they passed, American flags waving in the chilly afternoon breeze.Jane, a Brooklyn resident who stood on the curb opposite the protesters, said she isn’t typically someone who comes out to actions like this: before the No Kings event, she had only ever been to one protest, the Women’s March.Prospect Park, Brooklyn. Image: Mia Sato“I’m deeply concerned about our country,” Jane said, pausing as a long stream of trucks and cars honked continuously in support of the protesters in the background. “I think Trump is behaving as an authoritarian. We’ve seen in Russia, in Hungary, in Hong Kong, that the slide from freedom to not freedom is very fast and very quick if people do not make their voices heard,” Jane said. “I’m concerned that that’s what’s happening in the United States.” Jane also cited cuts to Medicaid and funding for academic research as well as tariffs as being “unacceptable.”Prospect Park, Brooklyn. Image: Mia SatoThe event was peaceful — there were lots of kids present — and people were in good spirits despite the rain. Protest signs ran the gamut from general anti-Trump slogansto New York City-specific causes like “Andrew Cuomo can’t read”. One sign read, “Fix your hearts or die,” an iconic line from the late director, David Lynch’s, Twin Peaks: The Return. And of course, amid nationwide immigration raids that have been escalated by the involvement of the federal government, ICE was top of mind: one sign simply read, “Melt ICE,” and another protester held a large “NO ICE IN NYC” sign. Though it was smaller and more contained than other events, the protest didn’t lack conviction: attendees of all ages stood in the cold rain, chanting and blowing into vuvuzela, banging the lids of pots and pans. At one point a man stood on the median on the street, leading the group in chants of “No justice, no peace.” Cars laid on the horn as they drove by.— Mia SatoAkron, OhioIt’s been raining pretty hard the last few days in Akron, OH, so much that I didn’t think there’d be a large turnout for our chapter of the No Kings protest. But I was emphatically proven wrong as the crowds I saw dwarfed the Tesla Takedown protests last month. Officially, the protest was to take place in front of the John F. Seiberling Federal Building on Main Street in Downtown Akron. But the concentration of people spilled over from that small space down Main Street and up Market Street. All told, though there were no official counts, I estimate somewhere between 500 to 900 people in this blue enclave in Northeast Ohio.The mood was exuberant, buoyed by supporters who honked their horns as they passed. The chorus of horns was nonstop, and when a sanitation truck honked as it went by, cheers got louder. The chants the crowds were singing took on a local flare. Ohio is the home of the Ohio State Buckeyes and anywhere you go, shout “O-H” and you’ll invariably get an “I-O” response. The crowds used that convention to make their own chant, “OH-IO, Donald Trump has got to go.”There was no police presence here and the crowd was very good at policing itself. Ostensibly out of concern for the incidents where people have rammed their cars into protestor crowds, the people here have taken up crossing guard duties, aiding folks who wish to cross Main or Market Streets. Toward the end of my time at the protest, I saw an older gentleman wearing Kent State gear and holding a sign that read, “Remember another time the National Guard was called in?” His sign featured a drawing of the famous photo from the event in which four Kent State students during a protest of the Vietnam War were killed by National Guard troops. I caught up with him to ask him some questions and he told me his name was Chuck Ayers, a professional cartoonist, and was present at the shooting. Akron, OH. Image: Ash Parrish“When I saw the National Guard in front of the federal building in LA,” he told me, “It was just another flashback.”He did not tell me this at the time, but Ayers is a nationally recognized cartoonist, noted for co-creating the comic strip Crankshaft. He’s lived in Ohio his entire life and of course, drew that sign himself. As he was telling me about how seeing news of the National Guard being deployed in LA, I could see him strain to hold back his emotions. He said it still hurts to see this 55 years later, but that he was heartened to see so many people standing here in community and solidarity. He also said that given his pain and trauma he almost didn’t come. When I asked why he showed up when it so obviously causes him pain he said simply, “Because I have to.”— Ash ParrishOneonta, New YorkOn a northward drive to Oneonta — population roughly 15,000, the largest city in New York’s mainly rural Otsego County — one of the most prominent landmarks is a sprawling barn splashed in huge, painted block letters with TRUMP 2024.It’s Trump country, but not uniformly Trumpy country, as evidenced by what I estimated as a hundreds-strong crowd gathered in a field just below Main Street that came together with a friendly county-fair atmosphere. Kids sat on their parents’ shoulders; American flags fluttered next to signs with slogans like SHADE NEVER MADE ANYONE LESS GAY, and attendees grumbled persistently about the event’s feeble sound system, set up on the bed of a pickup truck. It was the kind of conspicuously patriotic, far-from-urban protest that the Trump administration has all but insisted doesn’t exist.Image: Adi RobertsonBeyond a general condemnation of Trump, protest signs repped the same issues being denounced across the country. The wars in Gaza and Ukraine made an appearance, as did Elon Musk and Tesla. A couple of people called out funding cuts for organizations like NPR, one neatly lettered sign reminded us that WEATHER FORECASTING SAVES LIVES, another warned “Keep your nasty little hands off Social Security,” and a lot — unsurprisingly, given the past week’s events — attacked mass deportations and ICE. An attendee who identified himself as Bill, standing behind a placard that blocked most of him from sight, laid out his anger at the administration’s gutting of the Environmental Protection Agency. “I think if it was not for protests, there would be no change,” he told me.The event itself, supported by a coalition including the local chapter of Indivisible, highlighted topics like reproductive justice and LGBTQ rights alongside issues for groups often stereotyped as Republican blocs — there was a speech about Department of Veterans Affairs cuts and a representative from the local Office for the Aging. Rules for a march around the modest downtown were laid out: no blocking pedestrians or vehicles, and for the sake of families doing weekend shopping, watch the language. “Fuck!” one person yelled indistinctly from the audience. “No, no,” the event’s emcee chided gently. The philosophy, as she put it, was one of persuasion. “We want to build the resistance, not make people angry at us.”Image: Adi RobertsonBut even in a place that will almost certainly never see a National Guard deployment or the ire of a Truth Social post, the Trump administration’s brutal deportation program had just hit close to home. Only hours before the protest commenced, ICE agents were recorded handcuffing a man and removing him in an unmarked black car — detaining what was reportedly a legal resident seeking asylum from Venezuela. The mayor of Oneonta, Mark Drnek, relayed the news to the crowd. “ICE! We see you!” boomed Drnek from the truckbed. “We recognize you for what you are, and we understand, and we reject your vile purpose.”The crowd cheered furiously. The stars and stripes waved.- Adi RobertsonSee More: Policy
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    No Kings: protests in the eye of the storm
    As President Donald Trump kicked off a birthday military parade on the streets of Washington, DC, what’s estimated as roughly 2,000 events were held across the US and beyond — protesting Trump and Elon Musk’s evisceration of government services, an unprecedented crackdown by Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and countless other actions from the administration in its first five months. Held under the title “No Kings”, they’re the latest in several mass protests, following April’s Hands Off events and a wave of Tesla Takedown demonstrations in March.As The Verge’s Tina Nguyen went to downtown DC, we also sent reporters to No Kings demonstrations spanning the country, plus a “No Tyrants” event in the UK. How would they unfold after promises of “very heavy force” against protesters in the capital, after the deployment of thousands of military troops in a move a judge has bluntly called illegal, and after promises to “liberate” the city of Los Angeles from its “burdensome leadership” by local elected officials? What about the overnight killing of a Minnesota Democratic state representative and her husband, and the shooting of a Democratic state senator and his wife?The answer, at the events we attended, was fairly calmly — even against a backdrop of chaos.Downtown Los Angeles, CaliforniaAn inflatable baby Donald Trump, dressed in a diaper, hovered over throngs of people rallying outside of Los Angeles City Hall. Demonstrators outnumbered clumps of California National Guard members in fatigues posted up along sidewalks. “Go home to your families, we don’t need you in our streets,” one young person wearing a long braid down her back tells them while marching past. “Trump come catch these hands foo!” the back of her sign reads. I can’t see what the front says, but I can tell there’s an empty bag of Cheetos pasted to it.The big baby joins the march, floating through the streets of Downtown LA over demonstrators. A flatbed truck rolls ahead of it, the band — maybe LA’s own Ozomatli? — singing “We don’t like Trump” to the tune of “We Want The Funk.” Ducking inside Grand Central Market from the march, I talk to Puck and Twinkle Toes — two demonstrators in line for the public restrooms. Twinkle Toes tells me she’s part of an activist clown collective called Imp and Circumstance, wearing pink and white clown makeup and a striped pink and white bow wrapped around a loose hair bun atop her head. She’s here exercising her right to free speech, she says. Demonstrators in Los Angeles marched alongside an inflatable Donald Trump baby dressed in a diaper.“The more people that are out here, the more we know that this is not okay. That we don’t want an autocrat. We want democracy,” Puck tells me, adding that the Pride March in Hollywood last weekend was “nothing but love and sunshine” despite protests and burning driverless cars making headlines in downtown. “The news tries to make you think all of LA is rioting. It’s not.” Puck says.Back out on the streets, a young man quickly writes “Fuck ICE” on a black wall with white spray paint before a group of older demonstrators wearing floppy hats shushes him away — warning him that tagging will only attract more law enforcement.Further along, another older man with tufts of white hair sticking out under his Lakers cap walks stiffly and slowly along under the summer sun. A Mexican flag draped across his shoulders, he crosses Hope Street. A young man wearing a Nike cap makes his way over to ask if he wants water; the old man accepts a bottle and keeps walking without stopping. The march has looped around downtown, and is coming to an end back at City Hall. As I make my way to my bus stop, a line of police vehicles — sirens blasting — whizzes past me, back toward the crowd still gathering around City Hall.The Los Angeles Police Department issued a dispersal order for parts of downtown Los Angeles later in the afternoon, citing people “throwing rocks, bricks, bottles and other objects.” Law enforcement reportedly cleared crowds using gas, and the LAPD authorized the use of “less lethal” force.— Justine CalmaPortland, OregonFour different “No Kings” protests in the greater Portland area on Saturday drew massive crowds of tens of thousands across the city. Various activists, government officials, and representatives for politicians spoke at the rallies, which also featured music and live performances.Protesters of all ages came with dogs, strollers, flags, banners, and hand-made signs. At the downtown waterfront, some tourist boats appeared to still be departing, but the bike rental standwas closed for the day with a hand-lettered explanation reading “No crowns, no thrones, no kings” and “Americans against oligarchy.” Women appearing to be organizers passed out free American flags; many attendees came with their own American flags modified to fly upside down. Most protesters brought signs expressing a wide range of sentiments on the theme of “No Kings.” Some signs were surprisingly verbosewe’d all still be British”) while others were more succinct. Others opted for simple images, such as a picture of a crown crossed out, or — less frequently — a guillotine. Image: Sarah JeongThe waterfront park area was filled with people from the shoreline to the curb of the nearest street, where protesters held up signs to passing cars that honked in approval. The honking of a passing fire truck sent the crowd into an uproarious cheer. Portland is about a thousand miles from the border with Mexico, but the flag of its distant neighbor nation has emerged as protest iconography in solidarity with Los Angeles. The rainbow pride flag was flown as often as the Mexican flag. Military veterans were scattered throughout the crowd, some identifying themselves as having seen action in conflicts spanning from Vietnam to Afghanistan. Emanuel, an Air Force veteran, told me that he had turned out in defense of the constitution and due process, saying, “Nobody has any rights if one person doesn’t have any rights.” Image: Sarah JeongAnger was directed at ICE and the mass deportations all throughout the day, in signage, in chants, and in rally speeches. The previous night, about 150 people protested at a local ICE facility — coincidentally located by the Tesla dealership — a mile south of downtown, near a highway exit. The ICE facility protests, which have been continuous for some days, have been steadily building up. A couple of “No Kings” signs were present on Friday.. Demonstrators stood on the curb urging passing cars to “Honk if you hate fascists,” successfully eliciting car horns every few seconds, including some from a pristine white Tesla. Federal law enforcement in camo and helmets, their faces obscured, maced and shot at protesters with pepper balls, targeting them through the gates and sniping at them from the rooftop of the building. A handful of protesters — many wearing gas masks and respirators — formed phalanx formations in the driveway, wielding umbrellas and handmade shields. On Saturday, a speaker at one of the “No Kings” rallies advertised the occupation of the ICE facility, saying, “We’re a sanctuary city.” The crowd — replete with American flags both upside down and right side up — cheered. — Sarah JeongNew Port Richey, FloridaNearly every intersection on Pasco County’s State Road 54 looks the same: a cross-section of strip malls, each anchored by a Walmart or Target or Publix, surrounded by a mix of restaurants, nail salons, and gas stations. It’s not an environment that is particularly conducive to protests, but hundreds of people turned out in humid, 90-plus degree weather anyway. The overall size of the crowd is hard to determine, but it’s larger than I — and other attendees — anticipated, given the local demographics.New Port Richey, FL. Image: Gaby Del ValleEveryone is on the sidewalk; an organizer with a megaphone tells people to use crosswalks if they’re going to attempt to brave the six-lane highway. Two days earlier, Governor Ron DeSantis said Floridians could legally run over protesters on the street if they feel “threatened.” New Port Richey, FL. Image: Gaby Del ValleSo far, most drivers seem friendly. There are lots of supportive honks. One woman rolls down her window and thanks the protesters. “I love you! I wish I could be with you, but I have to work today!” she yells as she drives away. Not everyone is amenable. A man in a MAGA hat marches through the crowd waving a “thin green line” flag and yelling “long live the king!” as people in the crowd call him a traitor. A pickup truck drives by blasting “Ice Ice Baby,” waving another pro-law enforcement flag. The protesters have flags, too: American flags large and small, some upside down; Mexican; Ukrainian; Palestinian; Canadian; different configurations of pride and trans flags. Their signs, like their flags, illustrate their diverse reasons for attending: opposition to Trump’s “big beautiful” funding bill, DOGE’s budget cuts, and ICE arrests; support for immigrants, government workers, and Palestinians. One woman wears an inflatable chicken suit. Her friend pulls an effigy of Trump — dressed to look both like an eighteenth-century monarch, a taco, and a chicken — alongside her.New Port Richey, FL. Image: Gaby Del ValleMost of the demonstrators are on the older side, but there are people of all ages in attendance. “I thought it was going to be maybe 20 people with a couple of signs,” Abby, 24, says, adding that she’s pleasantly surprised at both the turnout and the fact that most of the protesters are of retirement age. Abe, 20, tells me this is his first protest. Holding a sign that says “ICE = GESTAPO,” he tells me he came out to support a friend who is Mexican. Three teenagers walk by with signs expressing support for immigrants: “While Trump destroys America, we built it.” “Trump: 3 felonies. My parents: 0.” As I drive away, I notice nine counter-protesters off to the side, around the corner from the main event. They wave their own flags, but the demonstrators seemingly pay them no mind.— Gaby Del ValleHistoric Filipinotown, Los AngelesWearing a camo baseball cap — “Desert Storm Veteran” emblazoned on the front — Joe Arciaga greets a crowd of about 100 people in Los Angeles’ Historic Filipinotown around 9:00AM.“Good morning everyone, are you ready for some beautiful trouble?” Arciaga says into the megaphone, an American flag bandana wrapped around his wrist. The faces of Filipino labor leaders Philip Vera Cruz and Larry Itliong, who organized farm workers alongside Cesar Chavez, peer over his shoulders from a mural that lines the length of Unidad Park where Arciaga and a group called Lakas Collective helped organize this neighborhood No Kings rally. “I’m a Desert Storm veteran, and I’m a father of three and a grandfather of three, and I want to work for a future where democracy is upheld, due process, civil rights, the preservation of the rule of law — That’s all I want. I’m not a billionaire, I’m just a regular Joe, right?”, he tells The Verge.Joe Arciaga speaks to people at a rally in Historic Filipinotown, Los Angeles. Image: Justine Calma“I am mad as hell,” he says, when I ask him about the Army 250th anniversary parade Donald Trump has organized in Washington, DC coinciding with the president’s birthday. “The guy does not deserve to be honored, he’s a draft dodger, right?” Arciaga says. He’s “livid” that the President and DOGE have fired veterans working for federal agencies and slashed VA staff.Arciaga organizes the crowd into two lines that file out of the park to stand along Beverly Blvd., one of the main drags through LA. Arciaga has deputized a handful of attendees with security or medical experience with whistles to serve as “marshals” tasked with flagging and de-escalating any potentially risky situation that might arise. Johneric Concordia, one of the co-founders of the popular The Park’s Finest barbecue joint in the neighborhood, is MCing out on Beverly Blvd. He and Arciaga direct people onto the sidewalks and off the asphalt as honking cars zip by. In between chants of “No hate! No fear! Immigrants are welcome here!” and rap songs from LA artist Bambu that Concordia plays from a speaker, Concordia hypes up the organizers. “Who’s cool? Joe’s cool?” He spits into the microphone connected to his speaker. “Who’s streets? Our streets!” the crowd cheers. An hour later, a man sitting at a red light in a black Prius rolls down his window. “Go home!” he yells from the intersection. “Take your Mexican flag and go home!”The crowd mostly ignores him. One attendee on the corner holds up his “No Kings” sign to the Prius without turning his head to look at him. A few minutes later, a jogger in a blue t-shirt raises his fist as he passes the crowd. “Fuck yeah guys,” he says to cheers.By 10AM, the neighborhood event is coming to a close. Demonstrators start to trickle away, some fanning out to other rallies planned across LA today. Concordia is heading out too, microphone and speaker still in hand, “If you’re headed to downtown, watch out for suspicious crew cuts!” — Justine CalmaSan Francisco, California1/10Most of the crowd trickled out after 2pm, which was the scheduled end time of the protest, but hundreds stayed in the area. Image: Vjeran PavicLondon, UKLondon’s protest was a little different than most: it was almost entirely bereft of “No Kings” signs, thanks to the fact that about two miles away much larger crowds were gathered to celebrate the official birthday of one King Charles III. “We don’t have anything against King Charles,” Alyssa, a member of organizers Indivisible London, told me. And so, “out of respect for our host country as immigrants,” they instead set up shop in front of the US embassy with a tweaked message: “No kings, no crowns” became “no tyrants, no clowns.” London, UK. Image: Dominic PrestonOf the hundreds gathered, not everyone got the memo, with a few painted signs decrying kings and crowns regardless, and one brave Brit brandishing a bit of cardboard with a simple message: “Our king is better than yours!”London, UK. Image: Dominic PrestonStill, most of the crowd were on board, with red noses, clown suits, and Pennywise masks dotted throughout, plus costumes ranging from tacos to Roman emperors. “I think tyrants is the better word, and that’s why I dressed up as Caesar, because he was the original,” says Anna, a Long Island native who’s lived in London for three years. “Nobody likes a tyrant. Nobody. And they don’t do well, historically, but they destroy a lot.”For 90 minutes or so the crowd — predominantly American, judging by the accents around me — leaned into the circus theme. Speakers shared the stage with performers, from a comic singalong of anti-Trump protest songs to a protracted pantomime in which a woman in a banana costume exhorted the crowd to pelt a Donald Trump impersonator with fresh peels. London, UK. Image: Dominic PrestonDuring a break in festivities, Alyssa told the crowd, “The most threatening sound to an oligarch is laughter.”— Dominic PrestonProspect Park, Brooklyn, New YorkThe No Kings protest at Brooklyn’s Grand Army Plaza was a calmer affair. Instead of gathering under the picturesque memorial arch, protesters were largely sequestered to a corner right outside Prospect Park, with some streets blocked off by police. The weekly farmers market was in full swing, meaning people cradling bundles of rhubarb were swerving in and out of protest signs that read things like, “Hating Donald Trump is Brat” and “Is it time to get out the pitch forks?” Like during the Hands Off protest in April, New York got rain on Saturday.Prospect Park, Brooklyn. Image: Mia SatoThe area where protesters were gathered made it difficult to count the crowd, but there were hundreds — perhaps a few thousand — people that streamed in and out. At one point, some protesters began marching down the street alongside Prospect Park, while others stayed at Grand Army Plaza to chant, cheer, and hold signs up at oncoming vehicles. With its proximity to the public library, the park, and densely populated neighborhoods, the massive intersection is a high-foot traffic area. Cars blared their horns as they passed, American flags waving in the chilly afternoon breeze.Jane, a Brooklyn resident who stood on the curb opposite the protesters, said she isn’t typically someone who comes out to actions like this: before the No Kings event, she had only ever been to one protest, the Women’s March.Prospect Park, Brooklyn. Image: Mia Sato“I’m deeply concerned about our country,” Jane said, pausing as a long stream of trucks and cars honked continuously in support of the protesters in the background. “I think Trump is behaving as an authoritarian. We’ve seen in Russia, in Hungary, in Hong Kong, that the slide from freedom to not freedom is very fast and very quick if people do not make their voices heard,” Jane said. “I’m concerned that that’s what’s happening in the United States.” Jane also cited cuts to Medicaid and funding for academic research as well as tariffs as being “unacceptable.”Prospect Park, Brooklyn. Image: Mia SatoThe event was peaceful — there were lots of kids present — and people were in good spirits despite the rain. Protest signs ran the gamut from general anti-Trump slogansto New York City-specific causes like “Andrew Cuomo can’t read”. One sign read, “Fix your hearts or die,” an iconic line from the late director, David Lynch’s, Twin Peaks: The Return. And of course, amid nationwide immigration raids that have been escalated by the involvement of the federal government, ICE was top of mind: one sign simply read, “Melt ICE,” and another protester held a large “NO ICE IN NYC” sign. Though it was smaller and more contained than other events, the protest didn’t lack conviction: attendees of all ages stood in the cold rain, chanting and blowing into vuvuzela, banging the lids of pots and pans. At one point a man stood on the median on the street, leading the group in chants of “No justice, no peace.” Cars laid on the horn as they drove by.— Mia SatoAkron, OhioIt’s been raining pretty hard the last few days in Akron, OH, so much that I didn’t think there’d be a large turnout for our chapter of the No Kings protest. But I was emphatically proven wrong as the crowds I saw dwarfed the Tesla Takedown protests last month. Officially, the protest was to take place in front of the John F. Seiberling Federal Building on Main Street in Downtown Akron. But the concentration of people spilled over from that small space down Main Street and up Market Street. All told, though there were no official counts, I estimate somewhere between 500 to 900 people in this blue enclave in Northeast Ohio.The mood was exuberant, buoyed by supporters who honked their horns as they passed. The chorus of horns was nonstop, and when a sanitation truck honked as it went by, cheers got louder. The chants the crowds were singing took on a local flare. Ohio is the home of the Ohio State Buckeyes and anywhere you go, shout “O-H” and you’ll invariably get an “I-O” response. The crowds used that convention to make their own chant, “OH-IO, Donald Trump has got to go.”There was no police presence here and the crowd was very good at policing itself. Ostensibly out of concern for the incidents where people have rammed their cars into protestor crowds, the people here have taken up crossing guard duties, aiding folks who wish to cross Main or Market Streets. Toward the end of my time at the protest, I saw an older gentleman wearing Kent State gear and holding a sign that read, “Remember another time the National Guard was called in?” His sign featured a drawing of the famous photo from the event in which four Kent State students during a protest of the Vietnam War were killed by National Guard troops. I caught up with him to ask him some questions and he told me his name was Chuck Ayers, a professional cartoonist, and was present at the shooting. Akron, OH. Image: Ash Parrish“When I saw the National Guard in front of the federal building in LA,” he told me, “It was just another flashback.”He did not tell me this at the time, but Ayers is a nationally recognized cartoonist, noted for co-creating the comic strip Crankshaft. He’s lived in Ohio his entire life and of course, drew that sign himself. As he was telling me about how seeing news of the National Guard being deployed in LA, I could see him strain to hold back his emotions. He said it still hurts to see this 55 years later, but that he was heartened to see so many people standing here in community and solidarity. He also said that given his pain and trauma he almost didn’t come. When I asked why he showed up when it so obviously causes him pain he said simply, “Because I have to.”— Ash ParrishOneonta, New YorkOn a northward drive to Oneonta — population roughly 15,000, the largest city in New York’s mainly rural Otsego County — one of the most prominent landmarks is a sprawling barn splashed in huge, painted block letters with TRUMP 2024.It’s Trump country, but not uniformly Trumpy country, as evidenced by what I estimated as a hundreds-strong crowd gathered in a field just below Main Street that came together with a friendly county-fair atmosphere. Kids sat on their parents’ shoulders; American flags fluttered next to signs with slogans like SHADE NEVER MADE ANYONE LESS GAY, and attendees grumbled persistently about the event’s feeble sound system, set up on the bed of a pickup truck. It was the kind of conspicuously patriotic, far-from-urban protest that the Trump administration has all but insisted doesn’t exist.Image: Adi RobertsonBeyond a general condemnation of Trump, protest signs repped the same issues being denounced across the country. The wars in Gaza and Ukraine made an appearance, as did Elon Musk and Tesla. A couple of people called out funding cuts for organizations like NPR, one neatly lettered sign reminded us that WEATHER FORECASTING SAVES LIVES, another warned “Keep your nasty little hands off Social Security,” and a lot — unsurprisingly, given the past week’s events — attacked mass deportations and ICE. An attendee who identified himself as Bill, standing behind a placard that blocked most of him from sight, laid out his anger at the administration’s gutting of the Environmental Protection Agency. “I think if it was not for protests, there would be no change,” he told me.The event itself, supported by a coalition including the local chapter of Indivisible, highlighted topics like reproductive justice and LGBTQ rights alongside issues for groups often stereotyped as Republican blocs — there was a speech about Department of Veterans Affairs cuts and a representative from the local Office for the Aging. Rules for a march around the modest downtown were laid out: no blocking pedestrians or vehicles, and for the sake of families doing weekend shopping, watch the language. “Fuck!” one person yelled indistinctly from the audience. “No, no,” the event’s emcee chided gently. The philosophy, as she put it, was one of persuasion. “We want to build the resistance, not make people angry at us.”Image: Adi RobertsonBut even in a place that will almost certainly never see a National Guard deployment or the ire of a Truth Social post, the Trump administration’s brutal deportation program had just hit close to home. Only hours before the protest commenced, ICE agents were recorded handcuffing a man and removing him in an unmarked black car — detaining what was reportedly a legal resident seeking asylum from Venezuela. The mayor of Oneonta, Mark Drnek, relayed the news to the crowd. “ICE! We see you!” boomed Drnek from the truckbed. “We recognize you for what you are, and we understand, and we reject your vile purpose.”The crowd cheered furiously. The stars and stripes waved.- Adi RobertsonSee More: Policy #kings #protests #eye #storm
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    No Kings: protests in the eye of the storm
    As President Donald Trump kicked off a birthday military parade on the streets of Washington, DC, what’s estimated as roughly 2,000 events were held across the US and beyond — protesting Trump and Elon Musk’s evisceration of government services, an unprecedented crackdown by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), and countless other actions from the administration in its first five months. Held under the title “No Kings” (with, as you’ll see, one conspicuous exception), they’re the latest in several mass protests, following April’s Hands Off events and a wave of Tesla Takedown demonstrations in March.As The Verge’s Tina Nguyen went to downtown DC, we also sent reporters to No Kings demonstrations spanning the country, plus a “No Tyrants” event in the UK. How would they unfold after promises of “very heavy force” against protesters in the capital, after the deployment of thousands of military troops in a move a judge has bluntly called illegal, and after promises to “liberate” the city of Los Angeles from its “burdensome leadership” by local elected officials? What about the overnight killing of a Minnesota Democratic state representative and her husband, and the shooting of a Democratic state senator and his wife?The answer, at the events we attended, was fairly calmly — even against a backdrop of chaos.Downtown Los Angeles, CaliforniaAn inflatable baby Donald Trump, dressed in a diaper, hovered over throngs of people rallying outside of Los Angeles City Hall. Demonstrators outnumbered clumps of California National Guard members in fatigues posted up along sidewalks. “Go home to your families, we don’t need you in our streets,” one young person wearing a long braid down her back tells them while marching past. “Trump come catch these hands foo!” the back of her sign reads. I can’t see what the front says, but I can tell there’s an empty bag of Cheetos pasted to it.The big baby joins the march, floating through the streets of Downtown LA over demonstrators. A flatbed truck rolls ahead of it, the band — maybe LA’s own Ozomatli? — singing “We don’t like Trump” to the tune of “We Want The Funk.” Ducking inside Grand Central Market from the march, I talk to Puck and Twinkle Toes — two demonstrators in line for the public restrooms. Twinkle Toes tells me she’s part of an activist clown collective called Imp and Circumstance, wearing pink and white clown makeup and a striped pink and white bow wrapped around a loose hair bun atop her head. She’s here exercising her right to free speech, she says. Demonstrators in Los Angeles marched alongside an inflatable Donald Trump baby dressed in a diaper.“The more people that are out here, the more we know that this is not okay. That we don’t want an autocrat. We want democracy,” Puck tells me, adding that the Pride March in Hollywood last weekend was “nothing but love and sunshine” despite protests and burning driverless cars making headlines in downtown. “The news tries to make you think all of LA is rioting. It’s not.” Puck says.Back out on the streets, a young man quickly writes “Fuck ICE” on a black wall with white spray paint before a group of older demonstrators wearing floppy hats shushes him away — warning him that tagging will only attract more law enforcement.Further along, another older man with tufts of white hair sticking out under his Lakers cap walks stiffly and slowly along under the summer sun. A Mexican flag draped across his shoulders, he crosses Hope Street. A young man wearing a Nike cap makes his way over to ask if he wants water; the old man accepts a bottle and keeps walking without stopping. The march has looped around downtown, and is coming to an end back at City Hall. As I make my way to my bus stop, a line of police vehicles — sirens blasting — whizzes past me, back toward the crowd still gathering around City Hall.The Los Angeles Police Department issued a dispersal order for parts of downtown Los Angeles later in the afternoon, citing people “throwing rocks, bricks, bottles and other objects.” Law enforcement reportedly cleared crowds using gas, and the LAPD authorized the use of “less lethal” force.— Justine CalmaPortland, OregonFour different “No Kings” protests in the greater Portland area on Saturday drew massive crowds of tens of thousands across the city. Various activists, government officials, and representatives for politicians spoke at the rallies, which also featured music and live performances. (One advertised free drag shows.) Protesters of all ages came with dogs, strollers, flags, banners, and hand-made signs. At the downtown waterfront, some tourist boats appeared to still be departing, but the bike rental stand (which also sells ice cream) was closed for the day with a hand-lettered explanation reading “No crowns, no thrones, no kings” and “Americans against oligarchy.” Women appearing to be organizers passed out free American flags; many attendees came with their own American flags modified to fly upside down. Most protesters brought signs expressing a wide range of sentiments on the theme of “No Kings.” Some signs were surprisingly verbose (“If the founders wanted a unitary executive (a king) we’d all still be British”) while others were more succinct (“Sic semper tyrannis”). Others opted for simple images, such as a picture of a crown crossed out, or — less frequently — a guillotine. Image: Sarah JeongThe waterfront park area was filled with people from the shoreline to the curb of the nearest street, where protesters held up signs to passing cars that honked in approval. The honking of a passing fire truck sent the crowd into an uproarious cheer. Portland is about a thousand miles from the border with Mexico, but the flag of its distant neighbor nation has emerged as protest iconography in solidarity with Los Angeles. The rainbow pride flag was flown as often as the Mexican flag. Military veterans were scattered throughout the crowd, some identifying themselves as having seen action in conflicts spanning from Vietnam to Afghanistan. Emanuel, an Air Force veteran, told me that he had turned out in defense of the constitution and due process, saying, “Nobody has any rights if one person doesn’t have any rights.” Image: Sarah JeongAnger was directed at ICE and the mass deportations all throughout the day, in signage, in chants, and in rally speeches. The previous night, about 150 people protested at a local ICE facility — coincidentally located by the Tesla dealership — a mile south of downtown, near a highway exit. The ICE facility protests, which have been continuous for some days, have been steadily building up. A couple of “No Kings” signs were present on Friday. (The following day, a handful of “Chinga la migra” signs would show up at the “No Kings” protests). Demonstrators stood on the curb urging passing cars to “Honk if you hate fascists,” successfully eliciting car horns every few seconds, including some from a pristine white Tesla. Federal law enforcement in camo and helmets, their faces obscured, maced and shot at protesters with pepper balls, targeting them through the gates and sniping at them from the rooftop of the building. A handful of protesters — many wearing gas masks and respirators — formed phalanx formations in the driveway, wielding umbrellas and handmade shields. On Saturday, a speaker at one of the “No Kings” rallies advertised the occupation of the ICE facility, saying, “We’re a sanctuary city.” The crowd — replete with American flags both upside down and right side up — cheered. — Sarah JeongNew Port Richey, FloridaNearly every intersection on Pasco County’s State Road 54 looks the same: a cross-section of strip malls, each anchored by a Walmart or Target or Publix, surrounded by a mix of restaurants, nail salons, and gas stations. It’s not an environment that is particularly conducive to protests, but hundreds of people turned out in humid, 90-plus degree weather anyway. The overall size of the crowd is hard to determine, but it’s larger than I — and other attendees — anticipated, given the local demographics. (Trump won 61 percent of the vote in Pasco County in 2024.) New Port Richey, FL. Image: Gaby Del ValleEveryone is on the sidewalk; an organizer with a megaphone tells people to use crosswalks if they’re going to attempt to brave the six-lane highway. Two days earlier, Governor Ron DeSantis said Floridians could legally run over protesters on the street if they feel “threatened.” New Port Richey, FL. Image: Gaby Del ValleSo far, most drivers seem friendly. There are lots of supportive honks. One woman rolls down her window and thanks the protesters. “I love you! I wish I could be with you, but I have to work today!” she yells as she drives away. Not everyone is amenable. A man in a MAGA hat marches through the crowd waving a “thin green line” flag and yelling “long live the king!” as people in the crowd call him a traitor. A pickup truck drives by blasting “Ice Ice Baby,” waving another pro-law enforcement flag. The protesters have flags, too: American flags large and small, some upside down; Mexican; Ukrainian; Palestinian; Canadian; different configurations of pride and trans flags. Their signs, like their flags, illustrate their diverse reasons for attending: opposition to Trump’s “big beautiful” funding bill, DOGE’s budget cuts, and ICE arrests; support for immigrants, government workers, and Palestinians. One woman wears an inflatable chicken suit. Her friend pulls an effigy of Trump — dressed to look both like an eighteenth-century monarch, a taco, and a chicken — alongside her.New Port Richey, FL. Image: Gaby Del ValleMost of the demonstrators are on the older side, but there are people of all ages in attendance. “I thought it was going to be maybe 20 people with a couple of signs,” Abby, 24, says, adding that she’s pleasantly surprised at both the turnout and the fact that most of the protesters are of retirement age. Abe, 20, tells me this is his first protest. Holding a sign that says “ICE = GESTAPO,” he tells me he came out to support a friend who is Mexican. Three teenagers walk by with signs expressing support for immigrants: “While Trump destroys America, we built it.” “Trump: 3 felonies. My parents: 0.” As I drive away, I notice nine counter-protesters off to the side, around the corner from the main event. They wave their own flags, but the demonstrators seemingly pay them no mind.— Gaby Del ValleHistoric Filipinotown, Los AngelesWearing a camo baseball cap — “Desert Storm Veteran” emblazoned on the front — Joe Arciaga greets a crowd of about 100 people in Los Angeles’ Historic Filipinotown around 9:00AM.“Good morning everyone, are you ready for some beautiful trouble?” Arciaga says into the megaphone, an American flag bandana wrapped around his wrist. The faces of Filipino labor leaders Philip Vera Cruz and Larry Itliong, who organized farm workers alongside Cesar Chavez, peer over his shoulders from a mural that lines the length of Unidad Park where Arciaga and a group called Lakas Collective helped organize this neighborhood No Kings rally. “I’m a Desert Storm veteran, and I’m a father of three and a grandfather of three, and I want to work for a future where democracy is upheld, due process, civil rights, the preservation of the rule of law — That’s all I want. I’m not a billionaire, I’m just a regular Joe, right?”, he tells The Verge.Joe Arciaga speaks to people at a rally in Historic Filipinotown, Los Angeles. Image: Justine Calma“I am mad as hell,” he says, when I ask him about the Army 250th anniversary parade Donald Trump has organized in Washington, DC coinciding with the president’s birthday. “The guy does not deserve to be honored, he’s a draft dodger, right?” Arciaga says. He’s “livid” that the President and DOGE have fired veterans working for federal agencies and slashed VA staff.Arciaga organizes the crowd into two lines that file out of the park to stand along Beverly Blvd., one of the main drags through LA. Arciaga has deputized a handful of attendees with security or medical experience with whistles to serve as “marshals” tasked with flagging and de-escalating any potentially risky situation that might arise. Johneric Concordia, one of the co-founders of the popular The Park’s Finest barbecue joint in the neighborhood, is MCing out on Beverly Blvd. He and Arciaga direct people onto the sidewalks and off the asphalt as honking cars zip by. In between chants of “No hate! No fear! Immigrants are welcome here!” and rap songs from LA artist Bambu that Concordia plays from a speaker, Concordia hypes up the organizers. “Who’s cool? Joe’s cool?” He spits into the microphone connected to his speaker. “Who’s streets? Our streets!” the crowd cheers. An hour later, a man sitting at a red light in a black Prius rolls down his window. “Go home!” he yells from the intersection. “Take your Mexican flag and go home!”The crowd mostly ignores him. One attendee on the corner holds up his “No Kings” sign to the Prius without turning his head to look at him. A few minutes later, a jogger in a blue t-shirt raises his fist as he passes the crowd. “Fuck yeah guys,” he says to cheers.By 10AM, the neighborhood event is coming to a close. Demonstrators start to trickle away, some fanning out to other rallies planned across LA today. Concordia is heading out too, microphone and speaker still in hand, “If you’re headed to downtown, watch out for suspicious crew cuts!” — Justine CalmaSan Francisco, California1/10Most of the crowd trickled out after 2pm, which was the scheduled end time of the protest, but hundreds stayed in the area. Image: Vjeran PavicLondon, UKLondon’s protest was a little different than most: it was almost entirely bereft of “No Kings” signs, thanks to the fact that about two miles away much larger crowds were gathered to celebrate the official birthday of one King Charles III. “We don’t have anything against King Charles,” Alyssa, a member of organizers Indivisible London, told me. And so, “out of respect for our host country as immigrants,” they instead set up shop in front of the US embassy with a tweaked message: “No kings, no crowns” became “no tyrants, no clowns.” London, UK. Image: Dominic PrestonOf the hundreds gathered, not everyone got the memo, with a few painted signs decrying kings and crowns regardless, and one brave Brit brandishing a bit of cardboard with a simple message: “Our king is better than yours!”London, UK. Image: Dominic PrestonStill, most of the crowd were on board, with red noses, clown suits, and Pennywise masks dotted throughout, plus costumes ranging from tacos to Roman emperors. “I think tyrants is the better word, and that’s why I dressed up as Caesar, because he was the original,” says Anna, a Long Island native who’s lived in London for three years. “Nobody likes a tyrant. Nobody. And they don’t do well, historically, but they destroy a lot.”For 90 minutes or so the crowd — predominantly American, judging by the accents around me — leaned into the circus theme. Speakers shared the stage with performers, from a comic singalong of anti-Trump protest songs to a protracted pantomime in which a woman in a banana costume exhorted the crowd to pelt a Donald Trump impersonator with fresh peels. London, UK. Image: Dominic PrestonDuring a break in festivities, Alyssa told the crowd, “The most threatening sound to an oligarch is laughter.”— Dominic PrestonProspect Park, Brooklyn, New YorkThe No Kings protest at Brooklyn’s Grand Army Plaza was a calmer affair. Instead of gathering under the picturesque memorial arch, protesters were largely sequestered to a corner right outside Prospect Park, with some streets blocked off by police. The weekly farmers market was in full swing, meaning people cradling bundles of rhubarb were swerving in and out of protest signs that read things like, “Hating Donald Trump is Brat” and “Is it time to get out the pitch forks?” Like during the Hands Off protest in April, New York got rain on Saturday.Prospect Park, Brooklyn. Image: Mia SatoThe area where protesters were gathered made it difficult to count the crowd, but there were hundreds — perhaps a few thousand — people that streamed in and out. At one point, some protesters began marching down the street alongside Prospect Park, while others stayed at Grand Army Plaza to chant, cheer, and hold signs up at oncoming vehicles. With its proximity to the public library, the park, and densely populated neighborhoods, the massive intersection is a high-foot traffic area. Cars blared their horns as they passed, American flags waving in the chilly afternoon breeze.Jane, a Brooklyn resident who stood on the curb opposite the protesters, said she isn’t typically someone who comes out to actions like this: before the No Kings event, she had only ever been to one protest, the Women’s March. (Jane asked that The Verge use her first name only.) Prospect Park, Brooklyn. Image: Mia Sato“I’m deeply concerned about our country,” Jane said, pausing as a long stream of trucks and cars honked continuously in support of the protesters in the background. “I think Trump is behaving as an authoritarian. We’ve seen in Russia, in Hungary, in Hong Kong, that the slide from freedom to not freedom is very fast and very quick if people do not make their voices heard,” Jane said. “I’m concerned that that’s what’s happening in the United States.” Jane also cited cuts to Medicaid and funding for academic research as well as tariffs as being “unacceptable.”Prospect Park, Brooklyn. Image: Mia SatoThe event was peaceful — there were lots of kids present — and people were in good spirits despite the rain. Protest signs ran the gamut from general anti-Trump slogans (“I trust light tampons more than this administration”) to New York City-specific causes like “Andrew Cuomo can’t read” (there is a contenious mayoral election this month). One sign read, “Fix your hearts or die,” an iconic line from the late director, David Lynch’s, Twin Peaks: The Return. And of course, amid nationwide immigration raids that have been escalated by the involvement of the federal government, ICE was top of mind: one sign simply read, “Melt ICE,” and another protester held a large “NO ICE IN NYC” sign. Though it was smaller and more contained than other events, the protest didn’t lack conviction: attendees of all ages stood in the cold rain, chanting and blowing into vuvuzela, banging the lids of pots and pans. At one point a man stood on the median on the street, leading the group in chants of “No justice, no peace.” Cars laid on the horn as they drove by.— Mia SatoAkron, OhioIt’s been raining pretty hard the last few days in Akron, OH, so much that I didn’t think there’d be a large turnout for our chapter of the No Kings protest. But I was emphatically proven wrong as the crowds I saw dwarfed the Tesla Takedown protests last month. Officially, the protest was to take place in front of the John F. Seiberling Federal Building on Main Street in Downtown Akron. But the concentration of people spilled over from that small space down Main Street and up Market Street. All told, though there were no official counts, I estimate somewhere between 500 to 900 people in this blue enclave in Northeast Ohio.The mood was exuberant, buoyed by supporters who honked their horns as they passed. The chorus of horns was nonstop, and when a sanitation truck honked as it went by, cheers got louder. The chants the crowds were singing took on a local flare. Ohio is the home of the Ohio State Buckeyes and anywhere you go, shout “O-H” and you’ll invariably get an “I-O” response. The crowds used that convention to make their own chant, “OH-IO, Donald Trump has got to go.”There was no police presence here and the crowd was very good at policing itself. Ostensibly out of concern for the incidents where people have rammed their cars into protestor crowds, the people here have taken up crossing guard duties, aiding folks who wish to cross Main or Market Streets. Toward the end of my time at the protest, I saw an older gentleman wearing Kent State gear and holding a sign that read, “Remember another time the National Guard was called in?” His sign featured a drawing of the famous photo from the event in which four Kent State students during a protest of the Vietnam War were killed by National Guard troops. I caught up with him to ask him some questions and he told me his name was Chuck Ayers, a professional cartoonist, and was present at the shooting. Akron, OH. Image: Ash Parrish“When I saw the National Guard in front of the federal building in LA,” he told me, “It was just another flashback.”He did not tell me this at the time, but Ayers is a nationally recognized cartoonist, noted for co-creating the comic strip Crankshaft. He’s lived in Ohio his entire life and of course, drew that sign himself. As he was telling me about how seeing news of the National Guard being deployed in LA, I could see him strain to hold back his emotions. He said it still hurts to see this 55 years later, but that he was heartened to see so many people standing here in community and solidarity. He also said that given his pain and trauma he almost didn’t come. When I asked why he showed up when it so obviously causes him pain he said simply, “Because I have to.”— Ash ParrishOneonta, New YorkOn a northward drive to Oneonta — population roughly 15,000, the largest city in New York’s mainly rural Otsego County — one of the most prominent landmarks is a sprawling barn splashed in huge, painted block letters with TRUMP 2024. (The final digits have been faithfully updated every election since 2016.) It’s Trump country, but not uniformly Trumpy country, as evidenced by what I estimated as a hundreds-strong crowd gathered in a field just below Main Street that came together with a friendly county-fair atmosphere. Kids sat on their parents’ shoulders; American flags fluttered next to signs with slogans like SHADE NEVER MADE ANYONE LESS GAY, and attendees grumbled persistently about the event’s feeble sound system, set up on the bed of a pickup truck. It was the kind of conspicuously patriotic, far-from-urban protest that the Trump administration has all but insisted doesn’t exist.Image: Adi RobertsonBeyond a general condemnation of Trump, protest signs repped the same issues being denounced across the country. The wars in Gaza and Ukraine made an appearance, as did Elon Musk and Tesla. A couple of people called out funding cuts for organizations like NPR, one neatly lettered sign reminded us that WEATHER FORECASTING SAVES LIVES, another warned “Keep your nasty little hands off Social Security,” and a lot — unsurprisingly, given the past week’s events — attacked mass deportations and ICE. An attendee who identified himself as Bill, standing behind a placard that blocked most of him from sight, laid out his anger at the administration’s gutting of the Environmental Protection Agency. “I think if it was not for protests, there would be no change,” he told me.The event itself, supported by a coalition including the local chapter of Indivisible, highlighted topics like reproductive justice and LGBTQ rights alongside issues for groups often stereotyped as Republican blocs — there was a speech about Department of Veterans Affairs cuts and a representative from the local Office for the Aging (whose words were mostly lost to the sound system’s whims). Rules for a march around the modest downtown were laid out: no blocking pedestrians or vehicles, and for the sake of families doing weekend shopping, watch the language. “Fuck!” one person yelled indistinctly from the audience. “No, no,” the event’s emcee chided gently. The philosophy, as she put it, was one of persuasion. “We want to build the resistance, not make people angry at us.”Image: Adi RobertsonBut even in a place that will almost certainly never see a National Guard deployment or the ire of a Truth Social post, the Trump administration’s brutal deportation program had just hit close to home. Only hours before the protest commenced, ICE agents were recorded handcuffing a man and removing him in an unmarked black car — detaining what was reportedly a legal resident seeking asylum from Venezuela. The mayor of Oneonta, Mark Drnek, relayed the news to the crowd. “ICE! We see you!” boomed Drnek from the truckbed. “We recognize you for what you are, and we understand, and we reject your vile purpose.”The crowd cheered furiously. The stars and stripes waved.- Adi RobertsonSee More: Policy
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  • ‘Real talk…No’: Tekken 8 players still livid after Fahkumram gameplay, Armor King reveal

    Tekken 8 is not sitting well with its community, and the latest gameplay trailer for Fahkumram didn’t do them any favors.Bandai Namco released the trailer on May 26, showing off the character’s move set, motivations for fighting, and subtle changes to the fighter’s design. The returning character will arrive as paid DLC on July 8 in early access and July 11 in general access, a part of Tekken 8’s Version 2.03 update.And if that wasn’t enough, Bandai Namco included a teaser for Armor King — another returning character — toward the end of the trailer. A specific release date wasn’t provided for the fan-favorite fighter, but is currently planned for a fall release.Neither reveal completely won over an already agitated Tekken community. Armor King appeared to garner mixed views from players, with some excited about getting King’s rival back in the fray, but others weren’t impressed with his inclusion.“Honestly, I had low hope that he would come back. But I’m so glad he’s coming back now,” a player commented on X.“THE GREATAST MOTHERFUCKIN CHARACTER IN TEKKEN HISTORY IS BACK!” one passionate fan typed, misspelling “greatest” out of sheer excitement.“LMAO, you know what’s funny,” someone else quipped. “They had to reveal this dude cuz they’re trying so hard to return the player base afterup the start of this season & revealing Fahkumram a dlc character from the previous title that nobody liked.”And speaking of Fahkumram, the community’s ill feelings toward him did not waver — gameplay or not, they’re still unimpressed. Players threw out a slew of comments calling the reveal “the most boring DLC trailer” and insisting they would “never like him.”Other commentary called out Bandai Namco for choosing to recycle Tekken 7 DLC and repurposing those characters for Tekken 8.“Man said we are paying for the same characters from T7 DLC all over again,” said one fan.“Why almost all of the DLC is DLC from Tekken 7?” questioned another account.“Real talk...No,” one player posted. “Could have added these people into the regular roster and bought back some we have not seen in a while like Bruce, Christie or made new characters for Tekken 8 DLC. used to have imagination in the industry.”Along with the mixed reviews of Tekken 8’s DLC, the game’s gameplay and mechanics have been a touchy subject, with the community irked by the devs making input changes to legacy characters. Gameplay changes were also made to a huge part of the character roster, adding forced 50/50 options with no defensive answers to respond.Tekken 8’s Version 2.02 and 2.03 are arriving in June and July so, these issues may be addressed. But as of right now, things are not looking too great for the Tekken 8 community.See More:
    #real #talkno #tekken #players #still
    ‘Real talk…No’: Tekken 8 players still livid after Fahkumram gameplay, Armor King reveal
    Tekken 8 is not sitting well with its community, and the latest gameplay trailer for Fahkumram didn’t do them any favors.Bandai Namco released the trailer on May 26, showing off the character’s move set, motivations for fighting, and subtle changes to the fighter’s design. The returning character will arrive as paid DLC on July 8 in early access and July 11 in general access, a part of Tekken 8’s Version 2.03 update.And if that wasn’t enough, Bandai Namco included a teaser for Armor King — another returning character — toward the end of the trailer. A specific release date wasn’t provided for the fan-favorite fighter, but is currently planned for a fall release.Neither reveal completely won over an already agitated Tekken community. Armor King appeared to garner mixed views from players, with some excited about getting King’s rival back in the fray, but others weren’t impressed with his inclusion.“Honestly, I had low hope that he would come back. But I’m so glad he’s coming back now,” a player commented on X.“THE GREATAST MOTHERFUCKIN CHARACTER IN TEKKEN HISTORY IS BACK!” one passionate fan typed, misspelling “greatest” out of sheer excitement.“LMAO, you know what’s funny,” someone else quipped. “They had to reveal this dude cuz they’re trying so hard to return the player base afterup the start of this season & revealing Fahkumram a dlc character from the previous title that nobody liked.”And speaking of Fahkumram, the community’s ill feelings toward him did not waver — gameplay or not, they’re still unimpressed. Players threw out a slew of comments calling the reveal “the most boring DLC trailer” and insisting they would “never like him.”Other commentary called out Bandai Namco for choosing to recycle Tekken 7 DLC and repurposing those characters for Tekken 8.“Man said we are paying for the same characters from T7 DLC all over again,” said one fan.“Why almost all of the DLC is DLC from Tekken 7?” questioned another account.“Real talk...No,” one player posted. “Could have added these people into the regular roster and bought back some we have not seen in a while like Bruce, Christie or made new characters for Tekken 8 DLC. used to have imagination in the industry.”Along with the mixed reviews of Tekken 8’s DLC, the game’s gameplay and mechanics have been a touchy subject, with the community irked by the devs making input changes to legacy characters. Gameplay changes were also made to a huge part of the character roster, adding forced 50/50 options with no defensive answers to respond.Tekken 8’s Version 2.02 and 2.03 are arriving in June and July so, these issues may be addressed. But as of right now, things are not looking too great for the Tekken 8 community.See More: #real #talkno #tekken #players #still
    WWW.POLYGON.COM
    ‘Real talk…No’: Tekken 8 players still livid after Fahkumram gameplay, Armor King reveal
    Tekken 8 is not sitting well with its community, and the latest gameplay trailer for Fahkumram didn’t do them any favors.Bandai Namco released the trailer on May 26, showing off the character’s move set, motivations for fighting, and subtle changes to the fighter’s design. The returning character will arrive as paid DLC on July 8 in early access and July 11 in general access, a part of Tekken 8’s Version 2.03 update.And if that wasn’t enough, Bandai Namco included a teaser for Armor King — another returning character — toward the end of the trailer. A specific release date wasn’t provided for the fan-favorite fighter, but is currently planned for a fall release.Neither reveal completely won over an already agitated Tekken community. Armor King appeared to garner mixed views from players, with some excited about getting King’s rival back in the fray, but others weren’t impressed with his inclusion.“Honestly, I had low hope that he would come back. But I’m so glad he’s coming back now,” a player commented on X (formerly known as Twitter).“THE GREATAST MOTHERFUCKIN CHARACTER IN TEKKEN HISTORY IS BACK!” one passionate fan typed, misspelling “greatest” out of sheer excitement.“LMAO, you know what’s funny,” someone else quipped. “They had to reveal this dude cuz they’re trying so hard to return the player base after [messing] up the start of this season & revealing Fahkumram a dlc character from the previous title that nobody liked.”And speaking of Fahkumram, the community’s ill feelings toward him did not waver — gameplay or not, they’re still unimpressed. Players threw out a slew of comments calling the reveal “the most boring DLC trailer” and insisting they would “never like him.”Other commentary called out Bandai Namco for choosing to recycle Tekken 7 DLC and repurposing those characters for Tekken 8.“Man said we are paying for the same characters from T7 DLC all over again,” said one fan.“Why almost all of the DLC is DLC from Tekken 7?” questioned another account.“Real talk...No,” one player posted. “Could have added these people into the regular roster and bought back some we have not seen in a while like Bruce, Christie or made new characters for Tekken 8 DLC. used to have imagination in the industry.”Along with the mixed reviews of Tekken 8’s DLC, the game’s gameplay and mechanics have been a touchy subject, with the community irked by the devs making input changes to legacy characters. Gameplay changes were also made to a huge part of the character roster, adding forced 50/50 options with no defensive answers to respond.Tekken 8’s Version 2.02 and 2.03 are arriving in June and July so, these issues may be addressed. But as of right now, things are not looking too great for the Tekken 8 community.See More:
    9 Yorumlar 0 hisse senetleri 0 önizleme
  • Chicago Sun-Times Prints Summer Reading List Full of Fake Books

    An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: On Sunday, the Chicago Sun-Times published an advertorial summer reading list containing at least 10 fake books attributed to real authors, according to multiple reports on social media. The newspaper's uncredited "Summer reading list for 2025" supplement recommended titles including "Tidewater Dreams" by Isabel Allende and "The Last Algorithm" by Andy Weir -- books that don't exist and were created out of thin air by an AI system. The creator of the list, Marco Buscaglia, confirmed to 404 Mediathat he used AI to generate the content. "I do use AI for background at times but always check out the material first. This time, I did not and I can't believe I missed it because it's so obvious. No excuses," Buscaglia said. "On me 100 percent and I'm completely embarrassed."

    A check by Ars Technica shows that only five of the fifteen recommended books in the list actually exist, with the remainder being fabricated titles falsely attributed to well-known authors.On Tuesday morning, the Chicago Sun-Times addressed the controversy on Bluesky. "We are looking into how this made it into print as we speak," the official publication account wrote. "It is not editorial content and was not created by, or approved by, the Sun-Times newsroom. We value your trust in our reporting and take this very seriously. More info will be provided soon." In the supplement, the books listed by authors Isabel Allende, Andy Weir, Brit Bennett, Taylor Jenkins Reid, Min Jin Lee, Percival Everett, Delia Owens, Rumaan Alam, Rebecca Makkai, and Maggie O'Farrell are confabulated, while books listed by authors Francoise Sagan, Ray Bradbury, Jess Walter, Andre Aciman, and Ian McEwan are real. All of the authors are real people. "The Chicago Sun-Times obviously gets ChatGPT to write a 'summer reads' feature almost entirely made up of real authors but completely fake books. What are we coming to?" wrote novelist Rachael King.

    A Reddit user also expressed disapproval of the incident. "As a subscriber, I am livid! What is the point of subscribing to a hard copy paper if they are just going to include AI slop too!? The Sun Times needs to answer for this, and there should be a reporter fired."

    of this story at Slashdot.
    #chicago #suntimes #prints #summer #reading
    Chicago Sun-Times Prints Summer Reading List Full of Fake Books
    An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: On Sunday, the Chicago Sun-Times published an advertorial summer reading list containing at least 10 fake books attributed to real authors, according to multiple reports on social media. The newspaper's uncredited "Summer reading list for 2025" supplement recommended titles including "Tidewater Dreams" by Isabel Allende and "The Last Algorithm" by Andy Weir -- books that don't exist and were created out of thin air by an AI system. The creator of the list, Marco Buscaglia, confirmed to 404 Mediathat he used AI to generate the content. "I do use AI for background at times but always check out the material first. This time, I did not and I can't believe I missed it because it's so obvious. No excuses," Buscaglia said. "On me 100 percent and I'm completely embarrassed." A check by Ars Technica shows that only five of the fifteen recommended books in the list actually exist, with the remainder being fabricated titles falsely attributed to well-known authors.On Tuesday morning, the Chicago Sun-Times addressed the controversy on Bluesky. "We are looking into how this made it into print as we speak," the official publication account wrote. "It is not editorial content and was not created by, or approved by, the Sun-Times newsroom. We value your trust in our reporting and take this very seriously. More info will be provided soon." In the supplement, the books listed by authors Isabel Allende, Andy Weir, Brit Bennett, Taylor Jenkins Reid, Min Jin Lee, Percival Everett, Delia Owens, Rumaan Alam, Rebecca Makkai, and Maggie O'Farrell are confabulated, while books listed by authors Francoise Sagan, Ray Bradbury, Jess Walter, Andre Aciman, and Ian McEwan are real. All of the authors are real people. "The Chicago Sun-Times obviously gets ChatGPT to write a 'summer reads' feature almost entirely made up of real authors but completely fake books. What are we coming to?" wrote novelist Rachael King. A Reddit user also expressed disapproval of the incident. "As a subscriber, I am livid! What is the point of subscribing to a hard copy paper if they are just going to include AI slop too!? The Sun Times needs to answer for this, and there should be a reporter fired." of this story at Slashdot. #chicago #suntimes #prints #summer #reading
    NEWS.SLASHDOT.ORG
    Chicago Sun-Times Prints Summer Reading List Full of Fake Books
    An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: On Sunday, the Chicago Sun-Times published an advertorial summer reading list containing at least 10 fake books attributed to real authors, according to multiple reports on social media. The newspaper's uncredited "Summer reading list for 2025" supplement recommended titles including "Tidewater Dreams" by Isabel Allende and "The Last Algorithm" by Andy Weir -- books that don't exist and were created out of thin air by an AI system. The creator of the list, Marco Buscaglia, confirmed to 404 Media (paywalled) that he used AI to generate the content. "I do use AI for background at times but always check out the material first. This time, I did not and I can't believe I missed it because it's so obvious. No excuses," Buscaglia said. "On me 100 percent and I'm completely embarrassed." A check by Ars Technica shows that only five of the fifteen recommended books in the list actually exist, with the remainder being fabricated titles falsely attributed to well-known authors. [...] On Tuesday morning, the Chicago Sun-Times addressed the controversy on Bluesky. "We are looking into how this made it into print as we speak," the official publication account wrote. "It is not editorial content and was not created by, or approved by, the Sun-Times newsroom. We value your trust in our reporting and take this very seriously. More info will be provided soon." In the supplement, the books listed by authors Isabel Allende, Andy Weir, Brit Bennett, Taylor Jenkins Reid, Min Jin Lee, Percival Everett, Delia Owens, Rumaan Alam, Rebecca Makkai, and Maggie O'Farrell are confabulated, while books listed by authors Francoise Sagan, Ray Bradbury, Jess Walter, Andre Aciman, and Ian McEwan are real. All of the authors are real people. "The Chicago Sun-Times obviously gets ChatGPT to write a 'summer reads' feature almost entirely made up of real authors but completely fake books. What are we coming to?" wrote novelist Rachael King. A Reddit user also expressed disapproval of the incident. "As a subscriber, I am livid! What is the point of subscribing to a hard copy paper if they are just going to include AI slop too!? The Sun Times needs to answer for this, and there should be a reporter fired." Read more of this story at Slashdot.
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  • Chicago Sun-Times prints summer reading list full of fake books

    Chicago Slop

    Chicago Sun-Times prints summer reading list full of fake books

    Reading list in advertorial supplement contains 66% made up books by real authors.

    Benj Edwards



    May 20, 2025 10:52 am

    |

    42

    Credit:

    Jorg Greuel via Getty Images

    Credit:

    Jorg Greuel via Getty Images

    Story text

    Size

    Small
    Standard
    Large

    Width
    *

    Standard
    Wide

    Links

    Standard
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    * Subscribers only
      Learn more

    On Sunday, the Chicago Sun-Times published an advertorial summer reading list containing at least 10 fake books attributed to real authors, according to multiple reports on social media. The newspaper's uncredited "Summer reading list for 2025" supplement recommended titles including "Tidewater Dreams" by Isabel Allende and "The Last Algorithm" by Andy Weir—books that don't exist and were created out of thin air by an AI system.
    The creator of the list, Marco Buscaglia, confirmed to 404 Media that he used AI to generate the content. "I do use AI for background at times but always check out the material first. This time, I did not and I can't believe I missed it because it's so obvious. No excuses," Buscaglia said. "On me 100 percent and I'm completely embarrassed."
    A check by Ars Technica shows that only five of the fifteen recommended books in the list actually exist, with the remainder being fabricated titles falsely attributed to well-known authors. AI assistants such as ChatGPT are well-known for creating plausible-sounding errors known as confabulations, especially when lacking detailed information on a particular topic. The problem affects everything from AI search results to lawyers citing fake cases.
    On Tuesday morning, the Chicago Sun-Times addressed the controversy on Bluesky. "We are looking into how this made it into print as we speak," the official publication account wrote. "It is not editorial content and was not created by, or approved by, the Sun-Times newsroom. We value your trust in our reporting and take this very seriously. More info will be provided soon."
    In the supplement, the books listed by authors Isabel Allende, Andy Weir, Brit Bennett, Taylor Jenkins Reid, Min Jin Lee, Percival Everett, Delia Owens, Rumaan Alam, Rebecca Makkai, and Maggie O’Farrell are confabulated, while books listed by authors Françoise Sagan, Ray Bradbury, Jess Walter, André Aciman, and Ian McEwan are real. All of the authors are real people.

    Photo of the Chicago Sun-Times "Summer reading list for 2025" supplement.

    Credit:

    Rachel King / Bluesky

    Novelist Rachael King initially called attention to the error on Bluesky Tuesday morning. "The Chicago Sun-Times obviously gets ChatGPT to write a 'summer reads' feature almost entirely made up of real authors but completely fake books. What are we coming to?" King wrote.
    So far, community reaction to the list has been largely negative online, but others have expressed sympathy for the publication. Freelance journalist Joshua J. Friedman noted on Bluesky that the reading list was "part of a ~60-page summer supplement" published on May 18, suggesting it might be "transparent filler" possibly created by "the lone freelancer apparently saddled with producing it."
    The staffing connection
    The reading list appeared in a 64-page supplement called "Heat Index," which was a promotional section not specific to Chicago. Buscaglia told 404 Media the content was meant to be "generic and national" and would be inserted into newspapers around the country. "We never get a list of where things ran," he said.
    The publication error comes two months after the Chicago Sun-Times lost 20 percent of its staff through a buyout program. In March, the newspaper's nonprofit owner, Chicago Public Media, announced that 30 Sun-Times employees—including 23 from the newsroom—had accepted buyout offers amid financial struggles.
    A March report on the buyout in the Sun-Times described the staff reduction as "the most drastic the oft-imperiled Sun-Times has faced in several years." The departures included columnists, editorial writers, and editors with decades of experience.
    Melissa Bell, CEO of Chicago Public Media, stated at the time that the exits would save the company million annually. The company offered buyouts as it prepared for an expected expiration of grant support at the end of 2026.
    Even with those pressures in the media, one Reddit user expressed disapproval of the apparent use of AI in the newspaper, even in a supplement that might not have been produced by staff. "As a subscriber, I am livid! What is the point of subscribing to a hard copy paper if they are just going to include AI slop too!?" wrote Reddit user xxxlovelit, who shared the reading list. "The Sun Times needs to answer for this, and there should be a reporter fired."
    This article was updated on May 20, 2025 at 11:02 AM to include information on Marco Buscaglia from 404 Media.

    Benj Edwards
    Senior AI Reporter

    Benj Edwards
    Senior AI Reporter

    Benj Edwards is Ars Technica's Senior AI Reporter and founder of the site's dedicated AI beat in 2022. He's also a tech historian with almost two decades of experience. In his free time, he writes and records music, collects vintage computers, and enjoys nature. He lives in Raleigh, NC.

    42 Comments
    #chicago #suntimes #prints #summer #reading
    Chicago Sun-Times prints summer reading list full of fake books
    Chicago Slop Chicago Sun-Times prints summer reading list full of fake books Reading list in advertorial supplement contains 66% made up books by real authors. Benj Edwards – May 20, 2025 10:52 am | 42 Credit: Jorg Greuel via Getty Images Credit: Jorg Greuel via Getty Images Story text Size Small Standard Large Width * Standard Wide Links Standard Orange * Subscribers only   Learn more On Sunday, the Chicago Sun-Times published an advertorial summer reading list containing at least 10 fake books attributed to real authors, according to multiple reports on social media. The newspaper's uncredited "Summer reading list for 2025" supplement recommended titles including "Tidewater Dreams" by Isabel Allende and "The Last Algorithm" by Andy Weir—books that don't exist and were created out of thin air by an AI system. The creator of the list, Marco Buscaglia, confirmed to 404 Media that he used AI to generate the content. "I do use AI for background at times but always check out the material first. This time, I did not and I can't believe I missed it because it's so obvious. No excuses," Buscaglia said. "On me 100 percent and I'm completely embarrassed." A check by Ars Technica shows that only five of the fifteen recommended books in the list actually exist, with the remainder being fabricated titles falsely attributed to well-known authors. AI assistants such as ChatGPT are well-known for creating plausible-sounding errors known as confabulations, especially when lacking detailed information on a particular topic. The problem affects everything from AI search results to lawyers citing fake cases. On Tuesday morning, the Chicago Sun-Times addressed the controversy on Bluesky. "We are looking into how this made it into print as we speak," the official publication account wrote. "It is not editorial content and was not created by, or approved by, the Sun-Times newsroom. We value your trust in our reporting and take this very seriously. More info will be provided soon." In the supplement, the books listed by authors Isabel Allende, Andy Weir, Brit Bennett, Taylor Jenkins Reid, Min Jin Lee, Percival Everett, Delia Owens, Rumaan Alam, Rebecca Makkai, and Maggie O’Farrell are confabulated, while books listed by authors Françoise Sagan, Ray Bradbury, Jess Walter, André Aciman, and Ian McEwan are real. All of the authors are real people. Photo of the Chicago Sun-Times "Summer reading list for 2025" supplement. Credit: Rachel King / Bluesky Novelist Rachael King initially called attention to the error on Bluesky Tuesday morning. "The Chicago Sun-Times obviously gets ChatGPT to write a 'summer reads' feature almost entirely made up of real authors but completely fake books. What are we coming to?" King wrote. So far, community reaction to the list has been largely negative online, but others have expressed sympathy for the publication. Freelance journalist Joshua J. Friedman noted on Bluesky that the reading list was "part of a ~60-page summer supplement" published on May 18, suggesting it might be "transparent filler" possibly created by "the lone freelancer apparently saddled with producing it." The staffing connection The reading list appeared in a 64-page supplement called "Heat Index," which was a promotional section not specific to Chicago. Buscaglia told 404 Media the content was meant to be "generic and national" and would be inserted into newspapers around the country. "We never get a list of where things ran," he said. The publication error comes two months after the Chicago Sun-Times lost 20 percent of its staff through a buyout program. In March, the newspaper's nonprofit owner, Chicago Public Media, announced that 30 Sun-Times employees—including 23 from the newsroom—had accepted buyout offers amid financial struggles. A March report on the buyout in the Sun-Times described the staff reduction as "the most drastic the oft-imperiled Sun-Times has faced in several years." The departures included columnists, editorial writers, and editors with decades of experience. Melissa Bell, CEO of Chicago Public Media, stated at the time that the exits would save the company million annually. The company offered buyouts as it prepared for an expected expiration of grant support at the end of 2026. Even with those pressures in the media, one Reddit user expressed disapproval of the apparent use of AI in the newspaper, even in a supplement that might not have been produced by staff. "As a subscriber, I am livid! What is the point of subscribing to a hard copy paper if they are just going to include AI slop too!?" wrote Reddit user xxxlovelit, who shared the reading list. "The Sun Times needs to answer for this, and there should be a reporter fired." This article was updated on May 20, 2025 at 11:02 AM to include information on Marco Buscaglia from 404 Media. Benj Edwards Senior AI Reporter Benj Edwards Senior AI Reporter Benj Edwards is Ars Technica's Senior AI Reporter and founder of the site's dedicated AI beat in 2022. He's also a tech historian with almost two decades of experience. In his free time, he writes and records music, collects vintage computers, and enjoys nature. He lives in Raleigh, NC. 42 Comments #chicago #suntimes #prints #summer #reading
    ARSTECHNICA.COM
    Chicago Sun-Times prints summer reading list full of fake books
    Chicago Slop Chicago Sun-Times prints summer reading list full of fake books Reading list in advertorial supplement contains 66% made up books by real authors. Benj Edwards – May 20, 2025 10:52 am | 42 Credit: Jorg Greuel via Getty Images Credit: Jorg Greuel via Getty Images Story text Size Small Standard Large Width * Standard Wide Links Standard Orange * Subscribers only   Learn more On Sunday, the Chicago Sun-Times published an advertorial summer reading list containing at least 10 fake books attributed to real authors, according to multiple reports on social media. The newspaper's uncredited "Summer reading list for 2025" supplement recommended titles including "Tidewater Dreams" by Isabel Allende and "The Last Algorithm" by Andy Weir—books that don't exist and were created out of thin air by an AI system. The creator of the list, Marco Buscaglia, confirmed to 404 Media that he used AI to generate the content. "I do use AI for background at times but always check out the material first. This time, I did not and I can't believe I missed it because it's so obvious. No excuses," Buscaglia said. "On me 100 percent and I'm completely embarrassed." A check by Ars Technica shows that only five of the fifteen recommended books in the list actually exist, with the remainder being fabricated titles falsely attributed to well-known authors. AI assistants such as ChatGPT are well-known for creating plausible-sounding errors known as confabulations, especially when lacking detailed information on a particular topic. The problem affects everything from AI search results to lawyers citing fake cases. On Tuesday morning, the Chicago Sun-Times addressed the controversy on Bluesky. "We are looking into how this made it into print as we speak," the official publication account wrote. "It is not editorial content and was not created by, or approved by, the Sun-Times newsroom. We value your trust in our reporting and take this very seriously. More info will be provided soon." In the supplement, the books listed by authors Isabel Allende, Andy Weir, Brit Bennett, Taylor Jenkins Reid, Min Jin Lee, Percival Everett, Delia Owens, Rumaan Alam, Rebecca Makkai, and Maggie O’Farrell are confabulated, while books listed by authors Françoise Sagan, Ray Bradbury, Jess Walter, André Aciman, and Ian McEwan are real. All of the authors are real people. Photo of the Chicago Sun-Times "Summer reading list for 2025" supplement. Credit: Rachel King / Bluesky Novelist Rachael King initially called attention to the error on Bluesky Tuesday morning. "The Chicago Sun-Times obviously gets ChatGPT to write a 'summer reads' feature almost entirely made up of real authors but completely fake books. What are we coming to?" King wrote. So far, community reaction to the list has been largely negative online, but others have expressed sympathy for the publication. Freelance journalist Joshua J. Friedman noted on Bluesky that the reading list was "part of a ~60-page summer supplement" published on May 18, suggesting it might be "transparent filler" possibly created by "the lone freelancer apparently saddled with producing it." The staffing connection The reading list appeared in a 64-page supplement called "Heat Index," which was a promotional section not specific to Chicago. Buscaglia told 404 Media the content was meant to be "generic and national" and would be inserted into newspapers around the country. "We never get a list of where things ran," he said. The publication error comes two months after the Chicago Sun-Times lost 20 percent of its staff through a buyout program. In March, the newspaper's nonprofit owner, Chicago Public Media, announced that 30 Sun-Times employees—including 23 from the newsroom—had accepted buyout offers amid financial struggles. A March report on the buyout in the Sun-Times described the staff reduction as "the most drastic the oft-imperiled Sun-Times has faced in several years." The departures included columnists, editorial writers, and editors with decades of experience. Melissa Bell, CEO of Chicago Public Media, stated at the time that the exits would save the company $4.2 million annually. The company offered buyouts as it prepared for an expected expiration of grant support at the end of 2026. Even with those pressures in the media, one Reddit user expressed disapproval of the apparent use of AI in the newspaper, even in a supplement that might not have been produced by staff. "As a subscriber, I am livid! What is the point of subscribing to a hard copy paper if they are just going to include AI slop too!?" wrote Reddit user xxxlovelit, who shared the reading list. "The Sun Times needs to answer for this, and there should be a reporter fired." This article was updated on May 20, 2025 at 11:02 AM to include information on Marco Buscaglia from 404 Media. Benj Edwards Senior AI Reporter Benj Edwards Senior AI Reporter Benj Edwards is Ars Technica's Senior AI Reporter and founder of the site's dedicated AI beat in 2022. He's also a tech historian with almost two decades of experience. In his free time, he writes and records music, collects vintage computers, and enjoys nature. He lives in Raleigh, NC. 42 Comments
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  • Chicago Newspaper Caught Publishing a “Summer Reads” Guide Full of AI Slop

    The Chicago Sun-Times, a daily non-profit newspaper owned by Chicago Public Media, published a "summer reading list" featuring wholly fabricated books — the result of broadcasting unverified AI slop in its pages.An image of a "Summer reading list for 2025" was first shared to Instagram by a book podcaster who goes by Tina Books and was circulated on Bluesky by the novelist Rachael King. The newspaper's title and the date of the page's publication are visible in the page's header.The page was included in a 64-page "Best of Summer" feature, and as the author, Marco Buscaglia, told 404 Media, it was generated using AI."I do use AI for background at times but always check out the material first," Buscaglia told 404 Media. "This time, I did not and I can't believe I missed it because it's so obvious. No excuses.""On me 100 percent and I'm completely embarrassed," he added.At first glance, the list is unassuming."Whether you're lounging by the pool, relaxing on sandy shores or enjoying the longer daylight hours in your favorite reading spot," reads the list's introduction, "these 15 titles — new and old — promise to deliver the perfect summer escape."The book titles themselves are unassuming, too. The newspaper recommends titles like the ethereal-sounding "Tidewater Dreams," which it says was written by the Chilean-American novelist Isabel Allende; "The Last Algorithm," purported to be a new sci-fi thriller by Andy Weir; and "The Collector's Piece," said to be written by the writer Taylor Jenkins Reid about a "reclusive art collector and the journalist determined to uncover the truth behind his most controversial acquisition."But as we independently confirmed, though these authors are real and well-known, these books are entirely fake — as are several others listed on the page. Indeed: the first ten out of all fifteen titles listed in the Sun-Times list either don't exist at all, or the titles are real, but weren't written by the author that the Sun-Times attributes them to.Fabrications like made-up citations are commonplace in AI-generated content, and a known risk of using generative AI tools like ChatGPT.We reached out to the Sun-Times and its owner, Chicago Public Media, which notably also owns the beloved National Public Radio station WBEZ Chicago. In an email, a spokesperson emphasized that the content wasn't created or approved by the Sun-Times newsroom and that the paper was actively investigating."We are looking into how this made it into print as we speak," read the email. "This is licensed content that was not created by, or approved by, the Sun-Times newsroom, but it is unacceptable for any content we provide to our readers to be inaccurate. We value our readers' trust in our reporting and take this very seriously. More info will be provided soon as we investigate."This was echoed by Buscaglia, who told 404 Media that the content was created to be part of a "promotional special section" not specifically targeted to Chicago."It's supposed to be generic and national," Buscaglia told 4o4 Media. "We never get a list of where things ran."This wouldn't be the first time AI has been used to create third-party content and published without AI disclosures by journalistic institutions, as Futurism's investigation last year into AdVon Commerce revealed.Readers are understandably upset and demanding answers."How did the editors at the Sun-Times not catch this? Do they use AI consistently in their work?" reads a Reddit post to r/Chicago about the scandal.  "As a subscriber, I am livid!""What is the point of subscribing to a hard copy paper," the poster continued, "if they are just going to include AI slop too!?""I just feel an overwhelming sense of sadness this morning over this?" University of Minnesota Press editorial director Jason Weidemann wrote in a Bluesky post. "There are thousands of struggling writers out there who could write a brilliant summer reads feature and should be paid to do so.""Pay humans to do things for fuck's sake," he added.Updated with a statement from Chicago Public Media.More on AI and journalism: Scammers Stole the Website for Emerson College's Student Radio Station and Started Running It as a Zombie AI FarmShare This Article
    #chicago #newspaper #caught #publishing #summer
    Chicago Newspaper Caught Publishing a “Summer Reads” Guide Full of AI Slop
    The Chicago Sun-Times, a daily non-profit newspaper owned by Chicago Public Media, published a "summer reading list" featuring wholly fabricated books — the result of broadcasting unverified AI slop in its pages.An image of a "Summer reading list for 2025" was first shared to Instagram by a book podcaster who goes by Tina Books and was circulated on Bluesky by the novelist Rachael King. The newspaper's title and the date of the page's publication are visible in the page's header.The page was included in a 64-page "Best of Summer" feature, and as the author, Marco Buscaglia, told 404 Media, it was generated using AI."I do use AI for background at times but always check out the material first," Buscaglia told 404 Media. "This time, I did not and I can't believe I missed it because it's so obvious. No excuses.""On me 100 percent and I'm completely embarrassed," he added.At first glance, the list is unassuming."Whether you're lounging by the pool, relaxing on sandy shores or enjoying the longer daylight hours in your favorite reading spot," reads the list's introduction, "these 15 titles — new and old — promise to deliver the perfect summer escape."The book titles themselves are unassuming, too. The newspaper recommends titles like the ethereal-sounding "Tidewater Dreams," which it says was written by the Chilean-American novelist Isabel Allende; "The Last Algorithm," purported to be a new sci-fi thriller by Andy Weir; and "The Collector's Piece," said to be written by the writer Taylor Jenkins Reid about a "reclusive art collector and the journalist determined to uncover the truth behind his most controversial acquisition."But as we independently confirmed, though these authors are real and well-known, these books are entirely fake — as are several others listed on the page. Indeed: the first ten out of all fifteen titles listed in the Sun-Times list either don't exist at all, or the titles are real, but weren't written by the author that the Sun-Times attributes them to.Fabrications like made-up citations are commonplace in AI-generated content, and a known risk of using generative AI tools like ChatGPT.We reached out to the Sun-Times and its owner, Chicago Public Media, which notably also owns the beloved National Public Radio station WBEZ Chicago. In an email, a spokesperson emphasized that the content wasn't created or approved by the Sun-Times newsroom and that the paper was actively investigating."We are looking into how this made it into print as we speak," read the email. "This is licensed content that was not created by, or approved by, the Sun-Times newsroom, but it is unacceptable for any content we provide to our readers to be inaccurate. We value our readers' trust in our reporting and take this very seriously. More info will be provided soon as we investigate."This was echoed by Buscaglia, who told 404 Media that the content was created to be part of a "promotional special section" not specifically targeted to Chicago."It's supposed to be generic and national," Buscaglia told 4o4 Media. "We never get a list of where things ran."This wouldn't be the first time AI has been used to create third-party content and published without AI disclosures by journalistic institutions, as Futurism's investigation last year into AdVon Commerce revealed.Readers are understandably upset and demanding answers."How did the editors at the Sun-Times not catch this? Do they use AI consistently in their work?" reads a Reddit post to r/Chicago about the scandal.  "As a subscriber, I am livid!""What is the point of subscribing to a hard copy paper," the poster continued, "if they are just going to include AI slop too!?""I just feel an overwhelming sense of sadness this morning over this?" University of Minnesota Press editorial director Jason Weidemann wrote in a Bluesky post. "There are thousands of struggling writers out there who could write a brilliant summer reads feature and should be paid to do so.""Pay humans to do things for fuck's sake," he added.Updated with a statement from Chicago Public Media.More on AI and journalism: Scammers Stole the Website for Emerson College's Student Radio Station and Started Running It as a Zombie AI FarmShare This Article #chicago #newspaper #caught #publishing #summer
    FUTURISM.COM
    Chicago Newspaper Caught Publishing a “Summer Reads” Guide Full of AI Slop
    The Chicago Sun-Times, a daily non-profit newspaper owned by Chicago Public Media, published a "summer reading list" featuring wholly fabricated books — the result of broadcasting unverified AI slop in its pages.An image of a "Summer reading list for 2025" was first shared to Instagram by a book podcaster who goes by Tina Books and was circulated on Bluesky by the novelist Rachael King. The newspaper's title and the date of the page's publication are visible in the page's header.The page was included in a 64-page "Best of Summer" feature, and as the author, Marco Buscaglia, told 404 Media, it was generated using AI."I do use AI for background at times but always check out the material first," Buscaglia told 404 Media. "This time, I did not and I can't believe I missed it because it's so obvious. No excuses.""On me 100 percent and I'm completely embarrassed," he added.At first glance, the list is unassuming."Whether you're lounging by the pool, relaxing on sandy shores or enjoying the longer daylight hours in your favorite reading spot," reads the list's introduction, "these 15 titles — new and old — promise to deliver the perfect summer escape."The book titles themselves are unassuming, too. The newspaper recommends titles like the ethereal-sounding "Tidewater Dreams," which it says was written by the Chilean-American novelist Isabel Allende; "The Last Algorithm," purported to be a new sci-fi thriller by Andy Weir; and "The Collector's Piece," said to be written by the writer Taylor Jenkins Reid about a "reclusive art collector and the journalist determined to uncover the truth behind his most controversial acquisition."But as we independently confirmed, though these authors are real and well-known, these books are entirely fake — as are several others listed on the page. Indeed: the first ten out of all fifteen titles listed in the Sun-Times list either don't exist at all, or the titles are real, but weren't written by the author that the Sun-Times attributes them to.Fabrications like made-up citations are commonplace in AI-generated content, and a known risk of using generative AI tools like ChatGPT.We reached out to the Sun-Times and its owner, Chicago Public Media, which notably also owns the beloved National Public Radio station WBEZ Chicago. In an email, a spokesperson emphasized that the content wasn't created or approved by the Sun-Times newsroom and that the paper was actively investigating."We are looking into how this made it into print as we speak," read the email. "This is licensed content that was not created by, or approved by, the Sun-Times newsroom, but it is unacceptable for any content we provide to our readers to be inaccurate. We value our readers' trust in our reporting and take this very seriously. More info will be provided soon as we investigate."This was echoed by Buscaglia, who told 404 Media that the content was created to be part of a "promotional special section" not specifically targeted to Chicago."It's supposed to be generic and national," Buscaglia told 4o4 Media. "We never get a list of where things ran."This wouldn't be the first time AI has been used to create third-party content and published without AI disclosures by journalistic institutions, as Futurism's investigation last year into AdVon Commerce revealed.Readers are understandably upset and demanding answers."How did the editors at the Sun-Times not catch this? Do they use AI consistently in their work?" reads a Reddit post to r/Chicago about the scandal.  "As a subscriber, I am livid!""What is the point of subscribing to a hard copy paper," the poster continued, "if they are just going to include AI slop too!?""I just feel an overwhelming sense of sadness this morning over this?" University of Minnesota Press editorial director Jason Weidemann wrote in a Bluesky post. "There are thousands of struggling writers out there who could write a brilliant summer reads feature and should be paid to do so.""Pay humans to do things for fuck's sake," he added.Updated with a statement from Chicago Public Media.More on AI and journalism: Scammers Stole the Website for Emerson College's Student Radio Station and Started Running It as a Zombie AI FarmShare This Article
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  • Forbes - New ‘Marathon’ Info: Bungie Morale, Launch Worries And Changing Plans

    Smitch
    The Unshakable Resolve of "this guy are sick"
    Member

    Apr 21, 2022

    4,752

    New ‘Marathon’ Info: Bungie Morale, Launch Worries And Changing Plans

    After a rough playtest and now plagiarism confirmation, Bungie is changing some Marathon plans and internally, things are bad.

    www.forbes.com

    Chaos has engulfed Bungie after an artist, ANTIREAL, came forward to accuse Bungie of ripping off her 2017 work as its upcoming extraction shooter Marathon was starting to take shape as early as 2018. Bungie admitted to the plagiarism, supposedly the work of one ex-artist, and promised to make things right, but the story gained traction among gaming outlets and reaction streamers alike, and it's poisoned the previous positive conversation about the aesthetic of the game.

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    I've spoken to some current and former employees about Bungie's excuse for the art theft, studio morale, the possibility of a delay and some very real changes when it comes to the upcoming presentation and playtesting of the game. Here's what I've learned:

    The public explanation for the art theft, one ex-employee taking things in 2020, is the same one being given internally at Bungie among the rank and file.
    Sony and Bungie legal are now sorting through this and there is unlikely to be any much new information as all of this continues to unfold. It is not clear how long an "audit" will take of the assets to remove or find any more plagiarism, as it's an expansive enough process to have Bungie not even show any footage at all in its recent livestream.
    Morale is in "free-fall" across all departments, and "the vibes have never been worse." Everyone has the same concerns about what happens to Bungie as a studio if Marathon bombs, which is something they absolutely cannot afford.
    There are not even hints or jokes about a delay from the September release date internally. With that said, it is entirely possible, if not likely, those conversations are happening privately between higher-up Sony and Bungie leadership. It's unclear what the plan is to launch the game in a "now actively hostile environment" just a few months from now, or how to turn that around.

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    Some changes to future plans had been made even before this new plagiarism development. Mainly as a reaction to gameplay footage and now the Closed Alpha.

    At the start of this month Bungie pulled the plug on its main Marathon marketing plan which was going to have a new trailer in June along with the launch of pre-orders. The whole campaign needs to be reworked now.
    A heavily marketed Public Beta in August may be changed into a "roadmap of public playtests" with no actual details set yet. This would align with Bungie's stated multiple opportunities to play before launch, rather than just the upcoming Beta.
    Marathon was originally pitched by higher-up "good old boy" Bungie leadership and as far back as five years ago devs were telling them what would and wouldn't work and were often ignored. Many have said previously that it needed to have some sort of PvE component.

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    Crossing Eden
    Member

    Oct 26, 2017

    58,458

    It's a shame what has happened to Bungie. Since their inception every single one of their titles has had development woes and issues and that shadow has been steadily catching up to them since they left Halo, most especially when it comes to their tech debt and how much of a hinderance that must be for production.

    It's so strange because when you actually play Bungie games there are often few signs of the dev issues but now it's like, "Hey btw if you get this game you're gonna be pretty lost because they removed the intro campaign." 

    Last edited: Yesterday at 11:04 AM

    Maelstrom
    Member

    Apr 22, 2025

    95

    This sucks, for everyone. I hope their studio will be stronger after this.
     

    Red Kong XIX
    Member

    Oct 11, 2020

    13,234

    They probably have to delay it.
     

    maze001
    Member

    Sep 18, 2024

    628

    Crazy thing is even if they delay 6 months that means Arc Raiders and Tarkovwill be out by then and it will put Marathon closer to GTA6 and maybe Fairgames release dates so it may end up even worse for them.
     

    Jagi
    Member

    May 6, 2025

    43

    Whatever it may be, the livestream yesterday made it insanely difficult for Sony and Bungie lawyers to create a narrative of their own.

    Its all in 4K: the accusation, the admittance, even the trial was online yesterday.

    If they could've saved face, yesterday stripped them naked of all absolution. 

    Vourlis
    Member

    Aug 14, 2022

    5,836

    United States

    Sometimes it's just amazing that anything gets made, ever.
     

    MANTRA
    Member

    Feb 21, 2024

    1,113

    maze001 said:

    Crazy thing is even if they delay 6 months that means Arc Raiders and Tarkovwill be out by then and it will put Marathon closer to GTA6 and maybe Fairgames release dates so it may end up even worse for them.

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    *If* the delay results in a better product I think thats a worthy trade-off imo. Miyamoto quote etc.
     

    Mini-Me
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    1,126

    I genuinely don't know what they do with this. Any delays would need to be significant enough to add and/or re-tool a lot of content to make it more exciting and more than just a basic ass extraction game but then that puts it closer to something like GTA. Not delaying seems like a death sentence. Not delaying and launching it instead as an early access title or something like that also seems futile. The entire thing seems doomed to fail, especially as public sentiment online nowadays is so, so hard to turn around.
     

    Gamer @ Heart
    Member

    Oct 26, 2017

    11,418

    Red Kong XIX said:

    They probably have to delay it.

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    Unless they have a magical way of generating hundreds of millions in revenue the rest of the fiscal year, then that means Bungie leadership will likely get pushed out by Sony. They have metrics to meet to stay whatever ridiculous floundering semi independent status they are in.

    Which is probably a good thing 

    IDontBeatGames
    ThreadMarksman - Saved Transistor's sanity twice
    Member

    Oct 29, 2017

    21,030

    New York

    MANTRA said:

    *If* the delay results in a better product I think thats a worthy trade-off imo. Miyamoto quote etc.

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    I don't disagree but I do wonder if this entire fiasco ends up sticking around Marathon like a bad cloud even if it gets delayed a few months, meaning like, I wonder if folks will choose to not actively support it even if the game is delayed a few months and gets fixed due to all of this.
     

    ianpm31
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    7,397

    Probably getting delayed.

    I don't understand Bungie at all. Just make Destiny 3 along with a single player co op project like the halo days. 

    Man Called Aerodynamics
    Member

    Oct 29, 2017

    8,315

    Everyone has the same concerns about what happens to Bungie as a studio if Marathon bombs, which is something they absolutely cannot afford.

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    I just don't understand how a big studio with so much history and talent gets to a place where they're betting the entire farm on this one risky project. 

    Truant
    Member

    Oct 28, 2017

    6,914

    If they play this right this might be just what this game needs.
     

    maze001
    Member

    Sep 18, 2024

    628

    Mini-Me said:

    I genuinely don't know what they do with this. Any delays would need to be significant enough to add and/or re-tool a lot of content to make it more exciting and more than just a basic ass extraction game but then that puts it closer to something like GTA. Not delaying seems like a death sentence. Not delaying and launching it instead as an early access title or something like that also seems futile. The entire thing seems doomed to fail, especially as public sentiment online nowadays is so, so hard to turn around.

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    Yeah, given a lot of the feedback I've heard it doesn't seem like a September > March delay would give them enough time to spice the game up beyond super basic extraction shooter. They would definitely need more time than that.
     

    Lowrys
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    14,650

    London

    Jagi said:

    Whatever it may be, the livestream yesterday made it insanely difficult for Sony and Bungie lawyers to create a narrative of their own.

    Its all in 4K: the accusation, the admittance, even the trial was online yesterday.

    If they could've saved face, yesterday stripped them naked of all absolution.
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    What trial?
     

    ElFly
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    3,719

    ianpm31 said:

    Probably getting delayed.

    I don't understand Bungie at all. Just make Destiny 3 along with a single player co op project like the halo days.
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    I think the cost of developing Destiny 2 constantly has scared them of single player or PvE elements

    it's why Marathon is strongly oriented towards PvP, cause making campaigns or tons of maps for one story event or animating NPCs is expensive.

    Meanwhile people are still playing Counterstrike. They want that level of non production. Maybe they can put new guns into it constantly, that's one thing they've learned to do predictably at Destiny. But that seems to be the level of investment they want to put in. 

    Mini-Me
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    1,126

    maze001 said:

    Yeah, given a lot of the feedback I've heard it doesn't seem like a Sept > March delay would give them enough time to spice the game up beyond super basic extraction shooter. They would definitely need more time than that.

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    Yeah I put about 8 hours into the alpha and the game just does not have much of anything going on. It feels akin to something like DMZ in COD or whatever the Battlefield extraction mode was in that it's a mostly fine but very simple extraction mode that's part of a larger package of multiplayer and single player offerings. Except in Marathon's case that's it, that's all they have. I don't think 3 extra months fixes anything. I don't even think 6 months fixes anything.
     

    theSoularian
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    3,942

    ianpm31 said:

    Probably getting delayed.

    I don't understand Bungie at all. Just make Destiny 3 along with a single player co op project like the halo days.
    Click to expand...
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    If only it was that simple. A Destiny 3 would be years away. 

    Chumunga64
    Member

    Jun 22, 2018

    17,133

    Sony should have really noticed the red flags when Microsoft, during the time they were buying everyone didn't even entertain the thought of buying the studio that gave them the franchise that prevented the xbox brand from being dead on arrival

     

    wellpapp
    Member

    Aug 21, 2018

    528

    Gothenburg

    My gut feeling says it's going to bomb in Sony's eyes regardless.
     

    Risev
    "This guy are sick"
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    3,889

    theSoularian said:

    If only it was that simple. A Destiny 3 would be years away.

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    If they started right now? It would take 5 years minimum most likely.

    But the wish would be that they would have started working on a Destiny 3 years ago, just like they did Destiny 2. I just don't understand why they didn't take Destiny through that same few steps. Those were Destiny's best and most successful years. 

    Zok310
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    6,019

    Gamer @ Heart said:

    Unless they have a magical way of generating hundreds of millions in revenue the rest of the fiscal year, then that means Bungie leadership will likely get pushed out by Sony. They have metrics to meet to stay whatever ridiculous floundering semi independent status they are in.

    Which is probably a good thing
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    They got that covered with the Destiny stans, just drop a "new strike" that we already paid for into D2 and 1 billion dollars overnight.
     

    DieH@rd
    Member

    Oct 26, 2017

    12,012

    Hopefully they'll pull through, D2 is great to play but it's hard to attract new players due to large amount of expansions, vaulting, and complicated UI/progression.

    I still play it regularly, and the upcoming expansions sound interesting.

    Marathon looks nice, but I'm mostly solo player... 

    Dekuman
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    20,993

    Sony throwing good money after bad.

    The whole live service push has been a boondoggle. Wiping off years of PS profits off the books. 

    Mr.Deadshot
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    23,141

    These mega studios need to get a grip. They need to make smaller scale games with a clear vision and focus. They can expand on that. And they fore sure need to steer away from chasing the "forever" game bullshit.

    Right now it feels like Marathon will be delayed for 6-12 months and then bomb anyway. It would be nice if Bungie could salvage the art and make a true Marathon 4 but we all know that won't happen in nowadays industry. 

    Audiblee
    Member

    Mar 14, 2025

    1,461

    It was in trouble before the theft was discovered. Reaction to the alpha was mid at best.
     

    Smokey
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    4,471

    Chumunga64 said:

    Sony should have really noticed the red flags when Microsoft, during the time they were buying everyone didn't even entertain the thought of buying the studio that gave them the franchise that prevented the xbox brand from being dead on arrival

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    They did entertain it though. The only reason they didn't is because Bungie wanted to "independently publish and creatively develop our games", which MS wasn't willing to do iirc 

    GameAddict411
    Member

    Oct 26, 2017

    10,093

    I just don't see a happy ending for the studio and the victims in the end will be all the devs. We all know all the shitty executives will get golden parachutes.
     

    super-famicom
    Avenger

    Oct 26, 2017

    30,483

    Man Called Aerodynamics said:

    I just don't understand how a big studio with so much history and talent gets to a place where they're betting the entire farm on this one risky project.

    Click to expand...
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    It's not the same Bungie that existed 15+ years ago. Upper management changed, along with what they valued and wanted to focus on. Other employees changed too. 

    Sydle
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    4,576

    It's crazy to me that they didn't start on Destiny 3. If the formula was tuned a bit, I feel like it has an incredibly high shot of being another cash cow.

    Chumunga64 said:

    Sony should have really noticed the red flags when Microsoft, during the time they were buying everyone didn't even entertain the thought of buying the studio that gave them the franchise that prevented the xbox brand from being dead on arrival

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    Isn't the rumor that Microsoft was in talks, but thought the asking price was too high?

    With the Xbox division's increasing focus on their studios having to each be financially healthy I'm not sure Bungie would have been better off at MS. AAA development is so insanely expensive now that it demands to be run like any other business with a ton of cash at stake.

    Ultimately, it seems like Bungie leadership needs a shakeup. 

    Jarmel
    The Jackrabbit Always Wins
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    22,658

    New York

    Mini-Me said:

    Yeah I put about 8 hours into the alpha and the game just does not have much of anything going on. It feels akin to something like DMZ in COD or whatever the Battlefield extraction mode was in that it's a mostly fine but very simple extraction mode that's part of a larger package of multiplayer and single player offerings. Except in Marathon's case that's it, that's all they have. I don't think 3 extra months fixes anything. I don't even think 6 months fixes anything.

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    I'm thinking full year delay.
     

    Billfisto
    Member

    Oct 30, 2017

    17,859

    Canada

    I'm livid that they tacked the Marathon name onto this for basically no reason and now it's absolutely poisoning it.

    We're never going to get a "proper" Marathon sequel because this entire ill-advised excursion has made the name so toxic that they'll never be able to justify using it again to the money people, even if they wanted to. 

    Tobor
    Died as he lived: wrong about Doritos
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    34,006

    A new actual Marathon game, or even a full remake, would have been a big deal and had lots of people talking about Bungie being back.

    But no, let's do an extraction shooter. 

    Killer
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    2,961

    Bungie's fate hang on Marathon. That really grim. People from the other thread said if it bombed Bungie will be fine
     

    Kyuuji
    The Favonius Fox
    Member

    Nov 8, 2017

    38,287

    Whole situation is shit. It was troubling enough following the feedback from the alpha but art theft at the scale found, in a game sold and hyped on its aesthetic, is a disaster. I don't know how you get back to good will on that, let alone in 4 months. Obviously it has to start with making the situation with Antireal right, but past that it still feels like a mammoth task with where general sentiment is at after it all. This is as someone who loved the alpha and was completely sold on the game.

    I still can't get my head around not having had Destiny 3 being developed in the background to baton-pass to following the conclusion of The Final Shape. 

    DieH@rd
    Member

    Oct 26, 2017

    12,012

    Sydle said:

    It's crazy to me that they didn't start on Destiny 3.

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    Destiny 2 was a mandate from Activision, but IMO, that was just just another in a row of expansions.

    I don't think D3 is coming, but they need better way to onboard new players. 

    Steamy Manatee
    ▲ Legend ▲
    Member

    Oct 18, 2022

    2,949

    Bungie's legal team is in deep trouble to say the least. They will have to audit every single texture in the game in probably less than two weeks while getting absolutely railed by Sony management who will intervene and reprimand them.

    Direction at Bungie should definitely use this is aexcuse to delay the game. But also if the marketing plan is being reworked from scratch mid-May, I think this means the game is definitely getting delayed.

    Either way, I feel so bad for the team. I know the feeling of working on something you just know it's not going to work out well. The odds of success were stacked against them, now it feels like it is almost impossible unless they delay to Q1 2026 before GTA VI 

    Last edited: Yesterday at 11:35 AM

    03-AALIYAH
    Member

    Jul 21, 2023

    1,367

    ianpm31 said:

    I don't understand Bungie at all. Just make Destiny 3 along with a single player co op project like the halo days.

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    Not an expert, but I don't understand why they didn't choose to pursue that option years ago as Destiny seems to still have a large fanbase ?
     

    DrScruffleton
    Member

    Oct 26, 2017

    14,856

    How do you release, let alone on time, after the art situation? Just try to pay off the artist as quickly as possible?
     

    artsi
    Member

    Oct 26, 2017

    3,368

    Finland

    I hope I'm wrong but my feeling is that Bungie is done already. This game will be the final nail in the coffin.
     

    Mifec
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    19,347

    Smokey said:

    They did entertain it though. The only reason they didn't is because Bungie wanted to "independently publish and creatively develop our games", which MS wasn't willing to do iirc

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    They would only pay 2bil max and wanted exclusivity was the rumor yeah.

    Well once this flops and they're reassigned there goes the exclusivity too. 

    ElFly
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    3,719

    Killer said:

    Bungie's fate hang on Marathon. That really grim. People from the other thread said if it bombed Bungie will be fine

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    to be fair, they always say this to make the employees work extra hours and then they fire them anyway 

    Bardeh
    Member

    Jun 15, 2018

    3,827

    I'm amazed that a studio the size and pedigree of Bungie, after 5+ years of development, isn't more confident in the direction of this project. The bones and foundation should be absolutely rock solid by now. They should be immutable. These final months should be 'betas' that are stress tests and marketing toolsto build up to release as final tweaks and bugfixes are made.

    Instead the feedback from the Alpha seems to have shaken them and thrown things into disarray, even before the plagiarism shitshow made things even worse.

    It really looks like the whole project has been absolutely terribly managed, and a whole lot of money and time spent on something that still doesn't quite know what it wants to be.

    Things aren't looking good. 

    Man Called Aerodynamics
    Member

    Oct 29, 2017

    8,315

    Jarmel said:

    I'm thinking full year delay.

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    Perfect, it can release once Arc Raiders is already well entrenched.
     

    Mini-Me
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    1,126

    Jarmel said:

    I'm thinking full year delay.

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    Mhm, they need a lot of time to get away from the discourse and add in a ton of extra content. But a year is a massive delay and I doubt it gets that
     

    Lampa
    Member

    Feb 13, 2018

    4,003

    I dunno, I don't think they can delay it. They probably should, but at some point a product has to come out from Bungie and we know they have a lot of them in development, They have to start making money, Destiny certainly won't be carrying all those projects in development anymore.
     

    Jarmel
    The Jackrabbit Always Wins
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    22,658

    New York

    Man Called Aerodynamics said:

    Perfect, it can release once Arc Raiders is already well entrenched.

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    If they can't outshine Arc Raiders then they were cooked anyway. It's not like they're first to market regardless and Tarkov is the market leader.

    Mini-Me said:

    Mhm, they need a lot of time to get away from the discourse and add in a ton of extra content. But a year is a massive delay and I doubt it gets that

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    6 months pushes it right into GTA. 9 is possibly but GTA Online might be really ramping around then. It's not how much time the game needs but GTA looming in the background.
     

    Lampa
    Member

    Feb 13, 2018

    4,003

    Bardeh said:

    I'm amazed that a studio the size and pedigree of Bungie, after 5+ years of development, isn't more confident in the direction of this project

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    It was rebooted last year or so, when they replaced the director and some other top people on the project.
     

    IMCaprica
    Member

    Aug 1, 2019

    10,982

    Should we have taken it as a sign that the project that was reported on as being the studio's favoritewas the one that got that team spun-out into their own PlayStation studio away from Bungie?

    Billfisto said:

    I'm livid that they tacked the Marathon name onto this for basically no reason and now it's absolutely poisoning it.

    We're never going to get a "proper" Marathon sequel because this entire ill-advised excursion has made the name so toxic that they'll never be able to justify using it again to the money people, even if they wanted to.
    Click to expand...
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    Tobor said:

    A new actual Marathon game, or even a full remake, would have been a big deal and had lots of people talking about Bungie being back.

    But no, let's do an extraction shooter.
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    What would honest expectations for that game be, given that Bungie as a studio hasn't made a game like that in 15 years?
     
    #forbes #new #marathon #info #bungie
    Forbes - New ‘Marathon’ Info: Bungie Morale, Launch Worries And Changing Plans
    Smitch The Unshakable Resolve of "this guy are sick" Member Apr 21, 2022 4,752 New ‘Marathon’ Info: Bungie Morale, Launch Worries And Changing Plans After a rough playtest and now plagiarism confirmation, Bungie is changing some Marathon plans and internally, things are bad. www.forbes.com Chaos has engulfed Bungie after an artist, ANTIREAL, came forward to accuse Bungie of ripping off her 2017 work as its upcoming extraction shooter Marathon was starting to take shape as early as 2018. Bungie admitted to the plagiarism, supposedly the work of one ex-artist, and promised to make things right, but the story gained traction among gaming outlets and reaction streamers alike, and it's poisoned the previous positive conversation about the aesthetic of the game. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I've spoken to some current and former employees about Bungie's excuse for the art theft, studio morale, the possibility of a delay and some very real changes when it comes to the upcoming presentation and playtesting of the game. Here's what I've learned: The public explanation for the art theft, one ex-employee taking things in 2020, is the same one being given internally at Bungie among the rank and file. Sony and Bungie legal are now sorting through this and there is unlikely to be any much new information as all of this continues to unfold. It is not clear how long an "audit" will take of the assets to remove or find any more plagiarism, as it's an expansive enough process to have Bungie not even show any footage at all in its recent livestream. Morale is in "free-fall" across all departments, and "the vibes have never been worse." Everyone has the same concerns about what happens to Bungie as a studio if Marathon bombs, which is something they absolutely cannot afford. There are not even hints or jokes about a delay from the September release date internally. With that said, it is entirely possible, if not likely, those conversations are happening privately between higher-up Sony and Bungie leadership. It's unclear what the plan is to launch the game in a "now actively hostile environment" just a few months from now, or how to turn that around. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Some changes to future plans had been made even before this new plagiarism development. Mainly as a reaction to gameplay footage and now the Closed Alpha. At the start of this month Bungie pulled the plug on its main Marathon marketing plan which was going to have a new trailer in June along with the launch of pre-orders. The whole campaign needs to be reworked now. A heavily marketed Public Beta in August may be changed into a "roadmap of public playtests" with no actual details set yet. This would align with Bungie's stated multiple opportunities to play before launch, rather than just the upcoming Beta. Marathon was originally pitched by higher-up "good old boy" Bungie leadership and as far back as five years ago devs were telling them what would and wouldn't work and were often ignored. Many have said previously that it needed to have some sort of PvE component. Click to expand... Click to shrink...   Crossing Eden Member Oct 26, 2017 58,458 It's a shame what has happened to Bungie. Since their inception every single one of their titles has had development woes and issues and that shadow has been steadily catching up to them since they left Halo, most especially when it comes to their tech debt and how much of a hinderance that must be for production. It's so strange because when you actually play Bungie games there are often few signs of the dev issues but now it's like, "Hey btw if you get this game you're gonna be pretty lost because they removed the intro campaign."  Last edited: Yesterday at 11:04 AM Maelstrom Member Apr 22, 2025 95 This sucks, for everyone. I hope their studio will be stronger after this.   Red Kong XIX Member Oct 11, 2020 13,234 They probably have to delay it.   maze001 Member Sep 18, 2024 628 Crazy thing is even if they delay 6 months that means Arc Raiders and Tarkovwill be out by then and it will put Marathon closer to GTA6 and maybe Fairgames release dates so it may end up even worse for them.   Jagi Member May 6, 2025 43 Whatever it may be, the livestream yesterday made it insanely difficult for Sony and Bungie lawyers to create a narrative of their own. Its all in 4K: the accusation, the admittance, even the trial was online yesterday. If they could've saved face, yesterday stripped them naked of all absolution.  Vourlis Member Aug 14, 2022 5,836 United States Sometimes it's just amazing that anything gets made, ever.   MANTRA Member Feb 21, 2024 1,113 maze001 said: Crazy thing is even if they delay 6 months that means Arc Raiders and Tarkovwill be out by then and it will put Marathon closer to GTA6 and maybe Fairgames release dates so it may end up even worse for them. Click to expand... Click to shrink... *If* the delay results in a better product I think thats a worthy trade-off imo. Miyamoto quote etc.   Mini-Me Member Oct 25, 2017 1,126 I genuinely don't know what they do with this. Any delays would need to be significant enough to add and/or re-tool a lot of content to make it more exciting and more than just a basic ass extraction game but then that puts it closer to something like GTA. Not delaying seems like a death sentence. Not delaying and launching it instead as an early access title or something like that also seems futile. The entire thing seems doomed to fail, especially as public sentiment online nowadays is so, so hard to turn around.   Gamer @ Heart Member Oct 26, 2017 11,418 Red Kong XIX said: They probably have to delay it. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Unless they have a magical way of generating hundreds of millions in revenue the rest of the fiscal year, then that means Bungie leadership will likely get pushed out by Sony. They have metrics to meet to stay whatever ridiculous floundering semi independent status they are in. Which is probably a good thing  IDontBeatGames ThreadMarksman - Saved Transistor's sanity twice Member Oct 29, 2017 21,030 New York MANTRA said: *If* the delay results in a better product I think thats a worthy trade-off imo. Miyamoto quote etc. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I don't disagree but I do wonder if this entire fiasco ends up sticking around Marathon like a bad cloud even if it gets delayed a few months, meaning like, I wonder if folks will choose to not actively support it even if the game is delayed a few months and gets fixed due to all of this.   ianpm31 Member Oct 27, 2017 7,397 Probably getting delayed. I don't understand Bungie at all. Just make Destiny 3 along with a single player co op project like the halo days.  Man Called Aerodynamics Member Oct 29, 2017 8,315 Everyone has the same concerns about what happens to Bungie as a studio if Marathon bombs, which is something they absolutely cannot afford. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I just don't understand how a big studio with so much history and talent gets to a place where they're betting the entire farm on this one risky project.  Truant Member Oct 28, 2017 6,914 If they play this right this might be just what this game needs.   maze001 Member Sep 18, 2024 628 Mini-Me said: I genuinely don't know what they do with this. Any delays would need to be significant enough to add and/or re-tool a lot of content to make it more exciting and more than just a basic ass extraction game but then that puts it closer to something like GTA. Not delaying seems like a death sentence. Not delaying and launching it instead as an early access title or something like that also seems futile. The entire thing seems doomed to fail, especially as public sentiment online nowadays is so, so hard to turn around. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Yeah, given a lot of the feedback I've heard it doesn't seem like a September > March delay would give them enough time to spice the game up beyond super basic extraction shooter. They would definitely need more time than that.   Lowrys Member Oct 25, 2017 14,650 London Jagi said: Whatever it may be, the livestream yesterday made it insanely difficult for Sony and Bungie lawyers to create a narrative of their own. Its all in 4K: the accusation, the admittance, even the trial was online yesterday. If they could've saved face, yesterday stripped them naked of all absolution. Click to expand... Click to shrink... What trial?   ElFly Member Oct 27, 2017 3,719 ianpm31 said: Probably getting delayed. I don't understand Bungie at all. Just make Destiny 3 along with a single player co op project like the halo days. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I think the cost of developing Destiny 2 constantly has scared them of single player or PvE elements it's why Marathon is strongly oriented towards PvP, cause making campaigns or tons of maps for one story event or animating NPCs is expensive. Meanwhile people are still playing Counterstrike. They want that level of non production. Maybe they can put new guns into it constantly, that's one thing they've learned to do predictably at Destiny. But that seems to be the level of investment they want to put in.  Mini-Me Member Oct 25, 2017 1,126 maze001 said: Yeah, given a lot of the feedback I've heard it doesn't seem like a Sept > March delay would give them enough time to spice the game up beyond super basic extraction shooter. They would definitely need more time than that. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Yeah I put about 8 hours into the alpha and the game just does not have much of anything going on. It feels akin to something like DMZ in COD or whatever the Battlefield extraction mode was in that it's a mostly fine but very simple extraction mode that's part of a larger package of multiplayer and single player offerings. Except in Marathon's case that's it, that's all they have. I don't think 3 extra months fixes anything. I don't even think 6 months fixes anything.   theSoularian Member Oct 25, 2017 3,942 ianpm31 said: Probably getting delayed. I don't understand Bungie at all. Just make Destiny 3 along with a single player co op project like the halo days. Click to expand... Click to shrink... If only it was that simple. A Destiny 3 would be years away.  Chumunga64 Member Jun 22, 2018 17,133 Sony should have really noticed the red flags when Microsoft, during the time they were buying everyone didn't even entertain the thought of buying the studio that gave them the franchise that prevented the xbox brand from being dead on arrival   wellpapp Member Aug 21, 2018 528 Gothenburg My gut feeling says it's going to bomb in Sony's eyes regardless.   Risev "This guy are sick" Member Oct 27, 2017 3,889 theSoularian said: If only it was that simple. A Destiny 3 would be years away. Click to expand... Click to shrink... If they started right now? It would take 5 years minimum most likely. But the wish would be that they would have started working on a Destiny 3 years ago, just like they did Destiny 2. I just don't understand why they didn't take Destiny through that same few steps. Those were Destiny's best and most successful years.  Zok310 Member Oct 25, 2017 6,019 Gamer @ Heart said: Unless they have a magical way of generating hundreds of millions in revenue the rest of the fiscal year, then that means Bungie leadership will likely get pushed out by Sony. They have metrics to meet to stay whatever ridiculous floundering semi independent status they are in. Which is probably a good thing Click to expand... Click to shrink... They got that covered with the Destiny stans, just drop a "new strike" that we already paid for into D2 and 1 billion dollars overnight.   DieH@rd Member Oct 26, 2017 12,012 Hopefully they'll pull through, D2 is great to play but it's hard to attract new players due to large amount of expansions, vaulting, and complicated UI/progression. I still play it regularly, and the upcoming expansions sound interesting. Marathon looks nice, but I'm mostly solo player...  Dekuman Member Oct 27, 2017 20,993 Sony throwing good money after bad. The whole live service push has been a boondoggle. Wiping off years of PS profits off the books.  Mr.Deadshot Member Oct 27, 2017 23,141 These mega studios need to get a grip. They need to make smaller scale games with a clear vision and focus. They can expand on that. And they fore sure need to steer away from chasing the "forever" game bullshit. Right now it feels like Marathon will be delayed for 6-12 months and then bomb anyway. It would be nice if Bungie could salvage the art and make a true Marathon 4 but we all know that won't happen in nowadays industry.  Audiblee Member Mar 14, 2025 1,461 It was in trouble before the theft was discovered. Reaction to the alpha was mid at best.   Smokey Member Oct 25, 2017 4,471 Chumunga64 said: Sony should have really noticed the red flags when Microsoft, during the time they were buying everyone didn't even entertain the thought of buying the studio that gave them the franchise that prevented the xbox brand from being dead on arrival Click to expand... Click to shrink... They did entertain it though. The only reason they didn't is because Bungie wanted to "independently publish and creatively develop our games", which MS wasn't willing to do iirc  GameAddict411 Member Oct 26, 2017 10,093 I just don't see a happy ending for the studio and the victims in the end will be all the devs. We all know all the shitty executives will get golden parachutes.   super-famicom Avenger Oct 26, 2017 30,483 Man Called Aerodynamics said: I just don't understand how a big studio with so much history and talent gets to a place where they're betting the entire farm on this one risky project. Click to expand... Click to shrink... It's not the same Bungie that existed 15+ years ago. Upper management changed, along with what they valued and wanted to focus on. Other employees changed too.  Sydle Member Oct 27, 2017 4,576 It's crazy to me that they didn't start on Destiny 3. If the formula was tuned a bit, I feel like it has an incredibly high shot of being another cash cow. Chumunga64 said: Sony should have really noticed the red flags when Microsoft, during the time they were buying everyone didn't even entertain the thought of buying the studio that gave them the franchise that prevented the xbox brand from being dead on arrival Click to expand... Click to shrink... Isn't the rumor that Microsoft was in talks, but thought the asking price was too high? With the Xbox division's increasing focus on their studios having to each be financially healthy I'm not sure Bungie would have been better off at MS. AAA development is so insanely expensive now that it demands to be run like any other business with a ton of cash at stake. Ultimately, it seems like Bungie leadership needs a shakeup.  Jarmel The Jackrabbit Always Wins Member Oct 25, 2017 22,658 New York Mini-Me said: Yeah I put about 8 hours into the alpha and the game just does not have much of anything going on. It feels akin to something like DMZ in COD or whatever the Battlefield extraction mode was in that it's a mostly fine but very simple extraction mode that's part of a larger package of multiplayer and single player offerings. Except in Marathon's case that's it, that's all they have. I don't think 3 extra months fixes anything. I don't even think 6 months fixes anything. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I'm thinking full year delay.   Billfisto Member Oct 30, 2017 17,859 Canada I'm livid that they tacked the Marathon name onto this for basically no reason and now it's absolutely poisoning it. We're never going to get a "proper" Marathon sequel because this entire ill-advised excursion has made the name so toxic that they'll never be able to justify using it again to the money people, even if they wanted to.  Tobor Died as he lived: wrong about Doritos Member Oct 25, 2017 34,006 A new actual Marathon game, or even a full remake, would have been a big deal and had lots of people talking about Bungie being back. But no, let's do an extraction shooter.  Killer Member Oct 27, 2017 2,961 Bungie's fate hang on Marathon. That really grim. People from the other thread said if it bombed Bungie will be fine   Kyuuji The Favonius Fox Member Nov 8, 2017 38,287 Whole situation is shit. It was troubling enough following the feedback from the alpha but art theft at the scale found, in a game sold and hyped on its aesthetic, is a disaster. I don't know how you get back to good will on that, let alone in 4 months. Obviously it has to start with making the situation with Antireal right, but past that it still feels like a mammoth task with where general sentiment is at after it all. This is as someone who loved the alpha and was completely sold on the game. I still can't get my head around not having had Destiny 3 being developed in the background to baton-pass to following the conclusion of The Final Shape.  DieH@rd Member Oct 26, 2017 12,012 Sydle said: It's crazy to me that they didn't start on Destiny 3. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Destiny 2 was a mandate from Activision, but IMO, that was just just another in a row of expansions. I don't think D3 is coming, but they need better way to onboard new players.  Steamy Manatee ▲ Legend ▲ Member Oct 18, 2022 2,949 Bungie's legal team is in deep trouble to say the least. They will have to audit every single texture in the game in probably less than two weeks while getting absolutely railed by Sony management who will intervene and reprimand them. Direction at Bungie should definitely use this is aexcuse to delay the game. But also if the marketing plan is being reworked from scratch mid-May, I think this means the game is definitely getting delayed. Either way, I feel so bad for the team. I know the feeling of working on something you just know it's not going to work out well. The odds of success were stacked against them, now it feels like it is almost impossible unless they delay to Q1 2026 before GTA VI  Last edited: Yesterday at 11:35 AM 03-AALIYAH Member Jul 21, 2023 1,367 ianpm31 said: I don't understand Bungie at all. Just make Destiny 3 along with a single player co op project like the halo days. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Not an expert, but I don't understand why they didn't choose to pursue that option years ago as Destiny seems to still have a large fanbase ?   DrScruffleton Member Oct 26, 2017 14,856 How do you release, let alone on time, after the art situation? Just try to pay off the artist as quickly as possible?   artsi Member Oct 26, 2017 3,368 Finland I hope I'm wrong but my feeling is that Bungie is done already. This game will be the final nail in the coffin.   Mifec Member Oct 25, 2017 19,347 Smokey said: They did entertain it though. The only reason they didn't is because Bungie wanted to "independently publish and creatively develop our games", which MS wasn't willing to do iirc Click to expand... Click to shrink... They would only pay 2bil max and wanted exclusivity was the rumor yeah. Well once this flops and they're reassigned there goes the exclusivity too.  ElFly Member Oct 27, 2017 3,719 Killer said: Bungie's fate hang on Marathon. That really grim. People from the other thread said if it bombed Bungie will be fine Click to expand... Click to shrink... to be fair, they always say this to make the employees work extra hours and then they fire them anyway  Bardeh Member Jun 15, 2018 3,827 I'm amazed that a studio the size and pedigree of Bungie, after 5+ years of development, isn't more confident in the direction of this project. The bones and foundation should be absolutely rock solid by now. They should be immutable. These final months should be 'betas' that are stress tests and marketing toolsto build up to release as final tweaks and bugfixes are made. Instead the feedback from the Alpha seems to have shaken them and thrown things into disarray, even before the plagiarism shitshow made things even worse. It really looks like the whole project has been absolutely terribly managed, and a whole lot of money and time spent on something that still doesn't quite know what it wants to be. Things aren't looking good.  Man Called Aerodynamics Member Oct 29, 2017 8,315 Jarmel said: I'm thinking full year delay. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Perfect, it can release once Arc Raiders is already well entrenched.   Mini-Me Member Oct 25, 2017 1,126 Jarmel said: I'm thinking full year delay. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Mhm, they need a lot of time to get away from the discourse and add in a ton of extra content. But a year is a massive delay and I doubt it gets that   Lampa Member Feb 13, 2018 4,003 I dunno, I don't think they can delay it. They probably should, but at some point a product has to come out from Bungie and we know they have a lot of them in development, They have to start making money, Destiny certainly won't be carrying all those projects in development anymore.   Jarmel The Jackrabbit Always Wins Member Oct 25, 2017 22,658 New York Man Called Aerodynamics said: Perfect, it can release once Arc Raiders is already well entrenched. Click to expand... Click to shrink... If they can't outshine Arc Raiders then they were cooked anyway. It's not like they're first to market regardless and Tarkov is the market leader. Mini-Me said: Mhm, they need a lot of time to get away from the discourse and add in a ton of extra content. But a year is a massive delay and I doubt it gets that Click to expand... Click to shrink... 6 months pushes it right into GTA. 9 is possibly but GTA Online might be really ramping around then. It's not how much time the game needs but GTA looming in the background.   Lampa Member Feb 13, 2018 4,003 Bardeh said: I'm amazed that a studio the size and pedigree of Bungie, after 5+ years of development, isn't more confident in the direction of this project Click to expand... Click to shrink... It was rebooted last year or so, when they replaced the director and some other top people on the project.   IMCaprica Member Aug 1, 2019 10,982 Should we have taken it as a sign that the project that was reported on as being the studio's favoritewas the one that got that team spun-out into their own PlayStation studio away from Bungie? Billfisto said: I'm livid that they tacked the Marathon name onto this for basically no reason and now it's absolutely poisoning it. We're never going to get a "proper" Marathon sequel because this entire ill-advised excursion has made the name so toxic that they'll never be able to justify using it again to the money people, even if they wanted to. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Tobor said: A new actual Marathon game, or even a full remake, would have been a big deal and had lots of people talking about Bungie being back. But no, let's do an extraction shooter. Click to expand... Click to shrink... What would honest expectations for that game be, given that Bungie as a studio hasn't made a game like that in 15 years?   #forbes #new #marathon #info #bungie
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    Forbes - New ‘Marathon’ Info: Bungie Morale, Launch Worries And Changing Plans
    Smitch The Unshakable Resolve of "this guy are sick" Member Apr 21, 2022 4,752 New ‘Marathon’ Info: Bungie Morale, Launch Worries And Changing Plans After a rough playtest and now plagiarism confirmation, Bungie is changing some Marathon plans and internally, things are bad. www.forbes.com Chaos has engulfed Bungie after an artist, ANTIREAL, came forward to accuse Bungie of ripping off her 2017 work as its upcoming extraction shooter Marathon was starting to take shape as early as 2018. Bungie admitted to the plagiarism, supposedly the work of one ex-artist, and promised to make things right, but the story gained traction among gaming outlets and reaction streamers alike, and it's poisoned the previous positive conversation about the aesthetic of the game. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I've spoken to some current and former employees about Bungie's excuse for the art theft, studio morale, the possibility of a delay and some very real changes when it comes to the upcoming presentation and playtesting of the game. Here's what I've learned: The public explanation for the art theft, one ex-employee taking things in 2020, is the same one being given internally at Bungie among the rank and file. Sony and Bungie legal are now sorting through this and there is unlikely to be any much new information as all of this continues to unfold. It is not clear how long an "audit" will take of the assets to remove or find any more plagiarism, as it's an expansive enough process to have Bungie not even show any footage at all in its recent livestream. Morale is in "free-fall" across all departments, and "the vibes have never been worse." Everyone has the same concerns about what happens to Bungie as a studio if Marathon bombs, which is something they absolutely cannot afford. There are not even hints or jokes about a delay from the September release date internally. With that said, it is entirely possible, if not likely, those conversations are happening privately between higher-up Sony and Bungie leadership. It's unclear what the plan is to launch the game in a "now actively hostile environment" just a few months from now, or how to turn that around. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Some changes to future plans had been made even before this new plagiarism development. Mainly as a reaction to gameplay footage and now the Closed Alpha. At the start of this month Bungie pulled the plug on its main Marathon marketing plan which was going to have a new trailer in June along with the launch of pre-orders. The whole campaign needs to be reworked now. A heavily marketed Public Beta in August may be changed into a "roadmap of public playtests" with no actual details set yet. This would align with Bungie's stated multiple opportunities to play before launch, rather than just the upcoming Beta. Marathon was originally pitched by higher-up "good old boy" Bungie leadership and as far back as five years ago devs were telling them what would and wouldn't work and were often ignored. Many have said previously that it needed to have some sort of PvE component. Click to expand... Click to shrink...   Crossing Eden Member Oct 26, 2017 58,458 It's a shame what has happened to Bungie. Since their inception every single one of their titles has had development woes and issues and that shadow has been steadily catching up to them since they left Halo, most especially when it comes to their tech debt and how much of a hinderance that must be for production. It's so strange because when you actually play Bungie games there are often few signs of the dev issues but now it's like, "Hey btw if you get this game you're gonna be pretty lost because they removed the intro campaign."  Last edited: Yesterday at 11:04 AM Maelstrom Member Apr 22, 2025 95 This sucks, for everyone. I hope their studio will be stronger after this.   Red Kong XIX Member Oct 11, 2020 13,234 They probably have to delay it.   maze001 Member Sep 18, 2024 628 Crazy thing is even if they delay 6 months that means Arc Raiders and Tarkov (Steam release) will be out by then and it will put Marathon closer to GTA6 and maybe Fairgames release dates so it may end up even worse for them.   Jagi Member May 6, 2025 43 Whatever it may be, the livestream yesterday made it insanely difficult for Sony and Bungie lawyers to create a narrative of their own. Its all in 4K: the accusation, the admittance, even the trial was online yesterday. If they could've saved face, yesterday stripped them naked of all absolution.  Vourlis Member Aug 14, 2022 5,836 United States Sometimes it's just amazing that anything gets made, ever.   MANTRA Member Feb 21, 2024 1,113 maze001 said: Crazy thing is even if they delay 6 months that means Arc Raiders and Tarkov (Steam release) will be out by then and it will put Marathon closer to GTA6 and maybe Fairgames release dates so it may end up even worse for them. Click to expand... Click to shrink... *If* the delay results in a better product I think thats a worthy trade-off imo. Miyamoto quote etc.   Mini-Me Member Oct 25, 2017 1,126 I genuinely don't know what they do with this. Any delays would need to be significant enough to add and/or re-tool a lot of content to make it more exciting and more than just a basic ass extraction game but then that puts it closer to something like GTA (unless they delay by a year or more which seems unlikely). Not delaying seems like a death sentence. Not delaying and launching it instead as an early access title or something like that also seems futile. The entire thing seems doomed to fail, especially as public sentiment online nowadays is so, so hard to turn around.   Gamer @ Heart Member Oct 26, 2017 11,418 Red Kong XIX said: They probably have to delay it. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Unless they have a magical way of generating hundreds of millions in revenue the rest of the fiscal year, then that means Bungie leadership will likely get pushed out by Sony. They have metrics to meet to stay whatever ridiculous floundering semi independent status they are in. Which is probably a good thing  IDontBeatGames ThreadMarksman - Saved Transistor's sanity twice Member Oct 29, 2017 21,030 New York MANTRA said: *If* the delay results in a better product I think thats a worthy trade-off imo. Miyamoto quote etc. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I don't disagree but I do wonder if this entire fiasco ends up sticking around Marathon like a bad cloud even if it gets delayed a few months, meaning like, I wonder if folks will choose to not actively support it even if the game is delayed a few months and gets fixed due to all of this.   ianpm31 Member Oct 27, 2017 7,397 Probably getting delayed. I don't understand Bungie at all. Just make Destiny 3 along with a single player co op project like the halo days.  Man Called Aerodynamics Member Oct 29, 2017 8,315 Everyone has the same concerns about what happens to Bungie as a studio if Marathon bombs, which is something they absolutely cannot afford. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I just don't understand how a big studio with so much history and talent gets to a place where they're betting the entire farm on this one risky project.  Truant Member Oct 28, 2017 6,914 If they play this right this might be just what this game needs.   maze001 Member Sep 18, 2024 628 Mini-Me said: I genuinely don't know what they do with this. Any delays would need to be significant enough to add and/or re-tool a lot of content to make it more exciting and more than just a basic ass extraction game but then that puts it closer to something like GTA (unless they delay by a year or more which seems unlikely). Not delaying seems like a death sentence. Not delaying and launching it instead as an early access title or something like that also seems futile. The entire thing seems doomed to fail, especially as public sentiment online nowadays is so, so hard to turn around. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Yeah, given a lot of the feedback I've heard it doesn't seem like a September > March delay would give them enough time to spice the game up beyond super basic extraction shooter. They would definitely need more time than that.   Lowrys Member Oct 25, 2017 14,650 London Jagi said: Whatever it may be, the livestream yesterday made it insanely difficult for Sony and Bungie lawyers to create a narrative of their own. Its all in 4K: the accusation, the admittance, even the trial was online yesterday. If they could've saved face, yesterday stripped them naked of all absolution. Click to expand... Click to shrink... What trial?   ElFly Member Oct 27, 2017 3,719 ianpm31 said: Probably getting delayed. I don't understand Bungie at all. Just make Destiny 3 along with a single player co op project like the halo days. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I think the cost of developing Destiny 2 constantly has scared them of single player or PvE elements it's why Marathon is strongly oriented towards PvP, cause making campaigns or tons of maps for one story event or animating NPCs is expensive. Meanwhile people are still playing Counterstrike. They want that level of non production. Maybe they can put new guns into it constantly, that's one thing they've learned to do predictably at Destiny. But that seems to be the level of investment they want to put in.  Mini-Me Member Oct 25, 2017 1,126 maze001 said: Yeah, given a lot of the feedback I've heard it doesn't seem like a Sept > March delay would give them enough time to spice the game up beyond super basic extraction shooter. They would definitely need more time than that. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Yeah I put about 8 hours into the alpha and the game just does not have much of anything going on. It feels akin to something like DMZ in COD or whatever the Battlefield extraction mode was in that it's a mostly fine but very simple extraction mode that's part of a larger package of multiplayer and single player offerings. Except in Marathon's case that's it, that's all they have. I don't think 3 extra months fixes anything. I don't even think 6 months fixes anything.   theSoularian Member Oct 25, 2017 3,942 ianpm31 said: Probably getting delayed. I don't understand Bungie at all. Just make Destiny 3 along with a single player co op project like the halo days. Click to expand... Click to shrink... If only it was that simple. A Destiny 3 would be years away.  Chumunga64 Member Jun 22, 2018 17,133 Sony should have really noticed the red flags when Microsoft, during the time they were buying everyone didn't even entertain the thought of buying the studio that gave them the franchise that prevented the xbox brand from being dead on arrival   wellpapp Member Aug 21, 2018 528 Gothenburg My gut feeling says it's going to bomb in Sony's eyes regardless.   Risev "This guy are sick" Member Oct 27, 2017 3,889 theSoularian said: If only it was that simple. A Destiny 3 would be years away. Click to expand... Click to shrink... If they started right now? It would take 5 years minimum most likely. But the wish would be that they would have started working on a Destiny 3 years ago, just like they did Destiny 2. I just don't understand why they didn't take Destiny through that same few steps. Those were Destiny's best and most successful years.  Zok310 Member Oct 25, 2017 6,019 Gamer @ Heart said: Unless they have a magical way of generating hundreds of millions in revenue the rest of the fiscal year, then that means Bungie leadership will likely get pushed out by Sony. They have metrics to meet to stay whatever ridiculous floundering semi independent status they are in. Which is probably a good thing Click to expand... Click to shrink... They got that covered with the Destiny stans, just drop a "new strike" that we already paid for into D2 and 1 billion dollars overnight.   DieH@rd Member Oct 26, 2017 12,012 Hopefully they'll pull through, D2 is great to play but it's hard to attract new players due to large amount of expansions, vaulting, and complicated UI/progression. I still play it regularly, and the upcoming expansions sound interesting. Marathon looks nice, but I'm mostly solo player...  Dekuman Member Oct 27, 2017 20,993 Sony throwing good money after bad. The whole live service push has been a boondoggle. Wiping off years of PS profits off the books.  Mr.Deadshot Member Oct 27, 2017 23,141 These mega studios need to get a grip. They need to make smaller scale games with a clear vision and focus. They can expand on that. And they fore sure need to steer away from chasing the "forever" game bullshit. Right now it feels like Marathon will be delayed for 6-12 months and then bomb anyway. It would be nice if Bungie could salvage the art and make a true Marathon 4 but we all know that won't happen in nowadays industry.  Audiblee Member Mar 14, 2025 1,461 It was in trouble before the theft was discovered. Reaction to the alpha was mid at best.   Smokey Member Oct 25, 2017 4,471 Chumunga64 said: Sony should have really noticed the red flags when Microsoft, during the time they were buying everyone didn't even entertain the thought of buying the studio that gave them the franchise that prevented the xbox brand from being dead on arrival Click to expand... Click to shrink... They did entertain it though. The only reason they didn't is because Bungie wanted to "independently publish and creatively develop our games", which MS wasn't willing to do iirc  GameAddict411 Member Oct 26, 2017 10,093 I just don't see a happy ending for the studio and the victims in the end will be all the devs. We all know all the shitty executives will get golden parachutes.   super-famicom Avenger Oct 26, 2017 30,483 Man Called Aerodynamics said: I just don't understand how a big studio with so much history and talent gets to a place where they're betting the entire farm on this one risky project. Click to expand... Click to shrink... It's not the same Bungie that existed 15+ years ago. Upper management changed, along with what they valued and wanted to focus on. Other employees changed too.  Sydle Member Oct 27, 2017 4,576 It's crazy to me that they didn't start on Destiny 3. If the formula was tuned a bit, I feel like it has an incredibly high shot of being another cash cow. Chumunga64 said: Sony should have really noticed the red flags when Microsoft, during the time they were buying everyone didn't even entertain the thought of buying the studio that gave them the franchise that prevented the xbox brand from being dead on arrival Click to expand... Click to shrink... Isn't the rumor that Microsoft was in talks, but thought the asking price was too high? With the Xbox division's increasing focus on their studios having to each be financially healthy I'm not sure Bungie would have been better off at MS. AAA development is so insanely expensive now that it demands to be run like any other business with a ton of cash at stake. Ultimately, it seems like Bungie leadership needs a shakeup.  Jarmel The Jackrabbit Always Wins Member Oct 25, 2017 22,658 New York Mini-Me said: Yeah I put about 8 hours into the alpha and the game just does not have much of anything going on. It feels akin to something like DMZ in COD or whatever the Battlefield extraction mode was in that it's a mostly fine but very simple extraction mode that's part of a larger package of multiplayer and single player offerings. Except in Marathon's case that's it, that's all they have. I don't think 3 extra months fixes anything. I don't even think 6 months fixes anything. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I'm thinking full year delay.   Billfisto Member Oct 30, 2017 17,859 Canada I'm livid that they tacked the Marathon name onto this for basically no reason and now it's absolutely poisoning it. We're never going to get a "proper" Marathon sequel because this entire ill-advised excursion has made the name so toxic that they'll never be able to justify using it again to the money people, even if they wanted to.  Tobor Died as he lived: wrong about Doritos Member Oct 25, 2017 34,006 A new actual Marathon game, or even a full remake, would have been a big deal and had lots of people talking about Bungie being back. But no, let's do an extraction shooter.  Killer Member Oct 27, 2017 2,961 Bungie's fate hang on Marathon. That really grim. People from the other thread said if it bombed Bungie will be fine   Kyuuji The Favonius Fox Member Nov 8, 2017 38,287 Whole situation is shit. It was troubling enough following the feedback from the alpha but art theft at the scale found, in a game sold and hyped on its aesthetic, is a disaster. I don't know how you get back to good will on that, let alone in 4 months. Obviously it has to start with making the situation with Antireal right, but past that it still feels like a mammoth task with where general sentiment is at after it all. This is as someone who loved the alpha and was completely sold on the game. I still can't get my head around not having had Destiny 3 being developed in the background to baton-pass to following the conclusion of The Final Shape.  DieH@rd Member Oct 26, 2017 12,012 Sydle said: It's crazy to me that they didn't start on Destiny 3. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Destiny 2 was a mandate from Activision, but IMO, that was just just another in a row of expansions. I don't think D3 is coming, but they need better way to onboard new players.  Steamy Manatee ▲ Legend ▲ Member Oct 18, 2022 2,949 Bungie's legal team is in deep trouble to say the least. They will have to audit every single texture in the game in probably less than two weeks while getting absolutely railed by Sony management who will intervene and reprimand them. Direction at Bungie should definitely use this is a (great) excuse to delay the game. But also if the marketing plan is being reworked from scratch mid-May, I think this means the game is definitely getting delayed. Either way, I feel so bad for the team. I know the feeling of working on something you just know it's not going to work out well. The odds of success were stacked against them, now it feels like it is almost impossible unless they delay to Q1 2026 before GTA VI  Last edited: Yesterday at 11:35 AM 03-AALIYAH Member Jul 21, 2023 1,367 ianpm31 said: I don't understand Bungie at all. Just make Destiny 3 along with a single player co op project like the halo days. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Not an expert, but I don't understand why they didn't choose to pursue that option years ago as Destiny seems to still have a large fanbase ?   DrScruffleton Member Oct 26, 2017 14,856 How do you release, let alone on time, after the art situation? Just try to pay off the artist as quickly as possible?   artsi Member Oct 26, 2017 3,368 Finland I hope I'm wrong but my feeling is that Bungie is done already. This game will be the final nail in the coffin.   Mifec Member Oct 25, 2017 19,347 Smokey said: They did entertain it though. The only reason they didn't is because Bungie wanted to "independently publish and creatively develop our games", which MS wasn't willing to do iirc Click to expand... Click to shrink... They would only pay 2bil max and wanted exclusivity was the rumor yeah. Well once this flops and they're reassigned there goes the exclusivity too.  ElFly Member Oct 27, 2017 3,719 Killer said: Bungie's fate hang on Marathon. That really grim. People from the other thread said if it bombed Bungie will be fine Click to expand... Click to shrink... to be fair, they always say this to make the employees work extra hours and then they fire them anyway  Bardeh Member Jun 15, 2018 3,827 I'm amazed that a studio the size and pedigree of Bungie, after 5+ years of development, isn't more confident in the direction of this project. The bones and foundation should be absolutely rock solid by now. They should be immutable. These final months should be 'betas' that are stress tests and marketing tools (like ARC Raiders recent test was, to huge success) to build up to release as final tweaks and bugfixes are made. Instead the feedback from the Alpha seems to have shaken them and thrown things into disarray, even before the plagiarism shitshow made things even worse. It really looks like the whole project has been absolutely terribly managed, and a whole lot of money and time spent on something that still doesn't quite know what it wants to be. Things aren't looking good.  Man Called Aerodynamics Member Oct 29, 2017 8,315 Jarmel said: I'm thinking full year delay. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Perfect, it can release once Arc Raiders is already well entrenched.   Mini-Me Member Oct 25, 2017 1,126 Jarmel said: I'm thinking full year delay. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Mhm, they need a lot of time to get away from the discourse and add in a ton of extra content. But a year is a massive delay and I doubt it gets that   Lampa Member Feb 13, 2018 4,003 I dunno, I don't think they can delay it. They probably should, but at some point a product has to come out from Bungie and we know they have a lot of them in development, They have to start making money, Destiny certainly won't be carrying all those projects in development anymore.   Jarmel The Jackrabbit Always Wins Member Oct 25, 2017 22,658 New York Man Called Aerodynamics said: Perfect, it can release once Arc Raiders is already well entrenched. Click to expand... Click to shrink... If they can't outshine Arc Raiders then they were cooked anyway. It's not like they're first to market regardless and Tarkov is the market leader. Mini-Me said: Mhm, they need a lot of time to get away from the discourse and add in a ton of extra content. But a year is a massive delay and I doubt it gets that Click to expand... Click to shrink... 6 months pushes it right into GTA. 9 is possibly but GTA Online might be really ramping around then. It's not how much time the game needs but GTA looming in the background.   Lampa Member Feb 13, 2018 4,003 Bardeh said: I'm amazed that a studio the size and pedigree of Bungie, after 5+ years of development, isn't more confident in the direction of this project Click to expand... Click to shrink... It was rebooted last year or so, when they replaced the director and some other top people on the project.   IMCaprica Member Aug 1, 2019 10,982 Should we have taken it as a sign that the project that was reported on as being the studio's favorite (Gummy Bears) was the one that got that team spun-out into their own PlayStation studio away from Bungie? Billfisto said: I'm livid that they tacked the Marathon name onto this for basically no reason and now it's absolutely poisoning it. We're never going to get a "proper" Marathon sequel because this entire ill-advised excursion has made the name so toxic that they'll never be able to justify using it again to the money people, even if they wanted to. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Tobor said: A new actual Marathon game, or even a full remake, would have been a big deal and had lots of people talking about Bungie being back. But no, let's do an extraction shooter. Click to expand... Click to shrink... What would honest expectations for that game be, given that Bungie as a studio hasn't made a game like that in 15 years?  
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  • Student Livid After Catching Her Professor Using ChatGPT, Asks For Her Money Back

    Many students aren't allowed to use artificial intelligence to do their assignments — and when they catch their teachers doing so, they're often peeved.In an interview with the New York Times, one such student — Northeastern's Ella Stapleton — was shocked earlier this year when she began to suspect that her business professor had generated lecture notes with ChatGPT.When combing through those notes, the newly-matriculated student noticed a ChatGPT search citation, obvious misspellings, and images with extraneous limbs and digits — all hallmarks of AI use."He’s telling us not to use it," Stapleton said, "and then he’s using it himself."Alarmed, the senior brought up the professor's AI use with Northeastern's administration and demanded her tuition back. After a series of meetings that ran all the way up until her graduation earlier this month, the school gave its final verdict: that she would not be getting her in tuition back.Most of the educators the NYT spoke to — who, like Stapleton's, had been caught by students using AI tools like ChatGPT — didn't think it was that big of a deal.To the mind of Paul Shovlin, an English teacher and AI fellow at Ohio University, there is no "one-size-fits-all" approach to using the burgeoning tech in the classroom. Students making their AI-using professors out to be "some kind of monster," as he put it, is "ridiculous."That take, which over-inflates the student's concerns to make her sound hystrionic, dismisses another burgeoning consensus: that others view the use of AI at work as lazy and look down upon people who use it.In a new study from Duke, business researchers found that people both anticipate and experience judgment from their colleagues for using AI at work.The study involved more than 4,400 people who, through a series of four experiments, indicated ample "evidence of a social evaluation penalty for using AI.""Our findings reveal a dilemma for people considering adopting AI tools," the researchers wrote. "Although AI can enhance productivity, its use carries social costs."For Stapleton's professor, Rick Arrowood, the Northeastern lecture notes scandal really drove that point home.Arrowood told the NYT that he used various AI tools — including ChatGPT, the Perplexity AI search engine, and an AI presentation generator called Gamma — to give his lectures a "fresh look." Though he claimed to have reviewed the outputs, he didn't catch the telltale AI signs that Stapleton saw."In hindsight," he told the newspaper, "I wish I would have looked at it more closely."Arrowood said he's now convinced professors should think harder about using AI and disclose to their students when and how it's used — a new stance indicating that the debacle was, for him, a teachable moment."If my experience can be something people can learn from," he told the NYT, "then, OK, that’s my happy spot."Share This Article
    #student #livid #after #catching #her
    Student Livid After Catching Her Professor Using ChatGPT, Asks For Her Money Back
    Many students aren't allowed to use artificial intelligence to do their assignments — and when they catch their teachers doing so, they're often peeved.In an interview with the New York Times, one such student — Northeastern's Ella Stapleton — was shocked earlier this year when she began to suspect that her business professor had generated lecture notes with ChatGPT.When combing through those notes, the newly-matriculated student noticed a ChatGPT search citation, obvious misspellings, and images with extraneous limbs and digits — all hallmarks of AI use."He’s telling us not to use it," Stapleton said, "and then he’s using it himself."Alarmed, the senior brought up the professor's AI use with Northeastern's administration and demanded her tuition back. After a series of meetings that ran all the way up until her graduation earlier this month, the school gave its final verdict: that she would not be getting her in tuition back.Most of the educators the NYT spoke to — who, like Stapleton's, had been caught by students using AI tools like ChatGPT — didn't think it was that big of a deal.To the mind of Paul Shovlin, an English teacher and AI fellow at Ohio University, there is no "one-size-fits-all" approach to using the burgeoning tech in the classroom. Students making their AI-using professors out to be "some kind of monster," as he put it, is "ridiculous."That take, which over-inflates the student's concerns to make her sound hystrionic, dismisses another burgeoning consensus: that others view the use of AI at work as lazy and look down upon people who use it.In a new study from Duke, business researchers found that people both anticipate and experience judgment from their colleagues for using AI at work.The study involved more than 4,400 people who, through a series of four experiments, indicated ample "evidence of a social evaluation penalty for using AI.""Our findings reveal a dilemma for people considering adopting AI tools," the researchers wrote. "Although AI can enhance productivity, its use carries social costs."For Stapleton's professor, Rick Arrowood, the Northeastern lecture notes scandal really drove that point home.Arrowood told the NYT that he used various AI tools — including ChatGPT, the Perplexity AI search engine, and an AI presentation generator called Gamma — to give his lectures a "fresh look." Though he claimed to have reviewed the outputs, he didn't catch the telltale AI signs that Stapleton saw."In hindsight," he told the newspaper, "I wish I would have looked at it more closely."Arrowood said he's now convinced professors should think harder about using AI and disclose to their students when and how it's used — a new stance indicating that the debacle was, for him, a teachable moment."If my experience can be something people can learn from," he told the NYT, "then, OK, that’s my happy spot."Share This Article #student #livid #after #catching #her
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    Student Livid After Catching Her Professor Using ChatGPT, Asks For Her Money Back
    Many students aren't allowed to use artificial intelligence to do their assignments — and when they catch their teachers doing so, they're often peeved.In an interview with the New York Times, one such student — Northeastern's Ella Stapleton — was shocked earlier this year when she began to suspect that her business professor had generated lecture notes with ChatGPT.When combing through those notes, the newly-matriculated student noticed a ChatGPT search citation, obvious misspellings, and images with extraneous limbs and digits — all hallmarks of AI use."He’s telling us not to use it," Stapleton said, "and then he’s using it himself."Alarmed, the senior brought up the professor's AI use with Northeastern's administration and demanded her tuition back. After a series of meetings that ran all the way up until her graduation earlier this month, the school gave its final verdict: that she would not be getting her $8,000 in tuition back.Most of the educators the NYT spoke to — who, like Stapleton's, had been caught by students using AI tools like ChatGPT — didn't think it was that big of a deal.To the mind of Paul Shovlin, an English teacher and AI fellow at Ohio University, there is no "one-size-fits-all" approach to using the burgeoning tech in the classroom. Students making their AI-using professors out to be "some kind of monster," as he put it, is "ridiculous."That take, which over-inflates the student's concerns to make her sound hystrionic, dismisses another burgeoning consensus: that others view the use of AI at work as lazy and look down upon people who use it.In a new study from Duke, business researchers found that people both anticipate and experience judgment from their colleagues for using AI at work.The study involved more than 4,400 people who, through a series of four experiments, indicated ample "evidence of a social evaluation penalty for using AI.""Our findings reveal a dilemma for people considering adopting AI tools," the researchers wrote. "Although AI can enhance productivity, its use carries social costs."For Stapleton's professor, Rick Arrowood, the Northeastern lecture notes scandal really drove that point home.Arrowood told the NYT that he used various AI tools — including ChatGPT, the Perplexity AI search engine, and an AI presentation generator called Gamma — to give his lectures a "fresh look." Though he claimed to have reviewed the outputs, he didn't catch the telltale AI signs that Stapleton saw."In hindsight," he told the newspaper, "I wish I would have looked at it more closely."Arrowood said he's now convinced professors should think harder about using AI and disclose to their students when and how it's used — a new stance indicating that the debacle was, for him, a teachable moment."If my experience can be something people can learn from," he told the NYT, "then, OK, that’s my happy spot."Share This Article
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