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2025-06-03 08:47:57 ·

Security Is Not Privacy, Part 1: The Mobile Target

In technical fields like information technology, definitions are fundamental. They are the building blocks for constructing useful applications and systems. Yet, despite this, it’s easy to assume a term’s definition and wield it confidently before discovering its true meaning. The two closely related cases that stand out to me are “security” and “privacy.”
I say this with full awareness that, in my many writings on information security, I never adequately distinguished these two concepts. It was only after observing enough conflation of these terms that I resolved to examine my own casual treatment of them.
So, with the aim of solidifying my own understanding, let’s properly differentiate “information security” and “information privacy.”
Security vs. Privacy: Definitions That Matter
In the context of information technology, what exactly are security and privacy?

Security is the property of denying unauthorized parties from accessing or altering your data.
Privacy is the property of preventing the observation of your activities by any third parties to whom you do not expressly consent to observe those activities.

As you can see, these principles are related, which is one reason why they’re commonly interchanged. This distinction becomes comprehensible with examples.
Let’s start with an instance where security applies, but privacy does not.
Spotify uses digital rights managementsoftware to keep its media secure but not private. DRM is a whole topic of its own, but it essentially uses cryptography to enforce copyright. In Spotify’s case, it’s what constitutes streaming rather than just downloading: the song’s file is present on your devicejust as if you’d downloaded it, but Spotify’s DRM cryptography prevents you from opening the file without the Spotify application.
The data on Spotifyare secure because only users of the application can stream audio, and streamed content can’t be retained, opened, or transmitted to non-users. However, Spotify’s data is not private because nearly anyone with an email address can be a user. Thus, in practice, the company cannot control who exactly can access its data.
A more complex example of security without privacy is social media.
When you sign up for a social media platform, you accept an end-user license agreementauthorizing the platform to share your data with its partners and affiliates. Your data stored with “authorized parties” on servers controlled by the platform and its affiliates would be considered secure, provided all these entities successfully defend your data against theft by unauthorized parties.
In other words, if everyone who is allowedto have your data encrypts it in transit and at rest, insulates and segments their networks, etc., then your data is secure no matter how many affiliates receive it. In practice, the more parties that have your data, the more likely it is that any one of them is breached, but in theory, they could all defend your data.

On the other hand, any data you fork over to the social network is not private because you can’t control who uses your data and how. As soon as your data lands on the platform’s servers, you can’t restrict what they do with it, including sharing your data with other entities, which you also can’t control.
Both examples illustrate security without privacy. That’s because privacy entails security, but not the reverse. All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares. If you have privacy, meaning you can completely enforce how any party uses your data, it is secure by definition because only authorized parties can access your data.
Mobile Devices: Secure but Not Private
Casually mixing security and privacy can lead people to misunderstand the information security properties that apply to their data in any given scenario. By reevaluating for ourselves whether a given technology affords us security and privacy, we can have a more accurate understanding of how accessible our data really is.
One significant misconception I’ve noticed concerns mobile devices. I get the impression that the digital privacy content sphere regards mobile devices as not secure because they aren’t private. But while mobile is designed not to be private, it is specifically designed to be secure.
Why is that?
Because the value of data is in keeping it in your hands and out of your competitor’s. If you collect data but anyone else can grab your copy, you are not only at no advantage but also at a disadvantage since you’re the only party that spent time and money to collect it from the source.
With modest scrutiny, we’ll find that every element of a mobile OS that might be marketed as a privacy feature is, in fact, strictly a security feature.
Cybersecurity professionals have hailed application permissions as a major stride in privacy. But whom are they designed to help? These menus apply to applications that request access to certain hardware, from microphones and cameras to flash memory storage and wireless radios. This access restriction feature serves the OS developer by letting users lock out as much of their competition as possible from taking their data. The mobile OS developer controls the OS with un-auditable compiled code. For all you know, permission controls on all the OS’s native apps could be ignored.

However, even if we assume that the OS developer doesn’t thwart your restrictions on their own apps, the first-party apps still enjoy pride of place. There are more of them; they are preinstalled on your device, facilitate core mobile device features, require more permissions, and often lose core functions when those permissions are denied.
Mobile OSes also sandbox every application, forcing each to run in an isolated software environment, oblivious to other applications and the underlying operating system. This, too, benefits the OS vendor. Like the app permission settings, this functionality makes it harder for third parties to grab the same data the OS effortlessly ingests. The OS relies on its own background processes to obtain the most valuable data and walls off every other app from those processes.
Mobile Security Isn’t Designed With You in Mind
The most powerful mobile security control is the denial of root privileges to all applications and users. While it goes a long way toward keeping the user’s data safe, it is just as effective at subjecting everything and everyone using the device to the dictates of the OS. The security advantage is undeniable: if your user account can’t use root, then any malware that compromises it can’t either.
By the same token, because you don’t have complete control over the OS, you are unable to reconfigure your device for privacy from the OS vendor.
I’m not disparaging any of these security controls. All of them reinforce the protection of your data. I’m saying that they are not done primarily for the user’s benefit; that is secondary.
Those of you familiar with my work might see the scroll bar near the bottom of this page and wonder why I haven’t mentioned Linux yet. The answer is that desktop operating systems, my preferred kind of Linux OS, benefit from their own examination. In a follow-up to this piece, I will discuss the paradox of desktop security and privacy.
Please stay tuned.
#security #not #privacy #part #mobile

Security Is Not Privacy, Part 1: The Mobile Target
In technical fields like information technology, definitions are fundamental. They are the building blocks for constructing useful applications and systems. Yet, despite this, it’s easy to assume a term’s definition and wield it confidently before discovering its true meaning. The two closely related cases that stand out to me are “security” and “privacy.” I say this with full awareness that, in my many writings on information security, I never adequately distinguished these two concepts. It was only after observing enough conflation of these terms that I resolved to examine my own casual treatment of them. So, with the aim of solidifying my own understanding, let’s properly differentiate “information security” and “information privacy.” Security vs. Privacy: Definitions That Matter In the context of information technology, what exactly are security and privacy? Security is the property of denying unauthorized parties from accessing or altering your data. Privacy is the property of preventing the observation of your activities by any third parties to whom you do not expressly consent to observe those activities. As you can see, these principles are related, which is one reason why they’re commonly interchanged. This distinction becomes comprehensible with examples. Let’s start with an instance where security applies, but privacy does not. Spotify uses digital rights managementsoftware to keep its media secure but not private. DRM is a whole topic of its own, but it essentially uses cryptography to enforce copyright. In Spotify’s case, it’s what constitutes streaming rather than just downloading: the song’s file is present on your devicejust as if you’d downloaded it, but Spotify’s DRM cryptography prevents you from opening the file without the Spotify application. The data on Spotifyare secure because only users of the application can stream audio, and streamed content can’t be retained, opened, or transmitted to non-users. However, Spotify’s data is not private because nearly anyone with an email address can be a user. Thus, in practice, the company cannot control who exactly can access its data. A more complex example of security without privacy is social media. When you sign up for a social media platform, you accept an end-user license agreementauthorizing the platform to share your data with its partners and affiliates. Your data stored with “authorized parties” on servers controlled by the platform and its affiliates would be considered secure, provided all these entities successfully defend your data against theft by unauthorized parties. In other words, if everyone who is allowedto have your data encrypts it in transit and at rest, insulates and segments their networks, etc., then your data is secure no matter how many affiliates receive it. In practice, the more parties that have your data, the more likely it is that any one of them is breached, but in theory, they could all defend your data. On the other hand, any data you fork over to the social network is not private because you can’t control who uses your data and how. As soon as your data lands on the platform’s servers, you can’t restrict what they do with it, including sharing your data with other entities, which you also can’t control. Both examples illustrate security without privacy. That’s because privacy entails security, but not the reverse. All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares. If you have privacy, meaning you can completely enforce how any party uses your data, it is secure by definition because only authorized parties can access your data. Mobile Devices: Secure but Not Private Casually mixing security and privacy can lead people to misunderstand the information security properties that apply to their data in any given scenario. By reevaluating for ourselves whether a given technology affords us security and privacy, we can have a more accurate understanding of how accessible our data really is. One significant misconception I’ve noticed concerns mobile devices. I get the impression that the digital privacy content sphere regards mobile devices as not secure because they aren’t private. But while mobile is designed not to be private, it is specifically designed to be secure. Why is that? Because the value of data is in keeping it in your hands and out of your competitor’s. If you collect data but anyone else can grab your copy, you are not only at no advantage but also at a disadvantage since you’re the only party that spent time and money to collect it from the source. With modest scrutiny, we’ll find that every element of a mobile OS that might be marketed as a privacy feature is, in fact, strictly a security feature. Cybersecurity professionals have hailed application permissions as a major stride in privacy. But whom are they designed to help? These menus apply to applications that request access to certain hardware, from microphones and cameras to flash memory storage and wireless radios. This access restriction feature serves the OS developer by letting users lock out as much of their competition as possible from taking their data. The mobile OS developer controls the OS with un-auditable compiled code. For all you know, permission controls on all the OS’s native apps could be ignored. However, even if we assume that the OS developer doesn’t thwart your restrictions on their own apps, the first-party apps still enjoy pride of place. There are more of them; they are preinstalled on your device, facilitate core mobile device features, require more permissions, and often lose core functions when those permissions are denied. Mobile OSes also sandbox every application, forcing each to run in an isolated software environment, oblivious to other applications and the underlying operating system. This, too, benefits the OS vendor. Like the app permission settings, this functionality makes it harder for third parties to grab the same data the OS effortlessly ingests. The OS relies on its own background processes to obtain the most valuable data and walls off every other app from those processes. Mobile Security Isn’t Designed With You in Mind The most powerful mobile security control is the denial of root privileges to all applications and users. While it goes a long way toward keeping the user’s data safe, it is just as effective at subjecting everything and everyone using the device to the dictates of the OS. The security advantage is undeniable: if your user account can’t use root, then any malware that compromises it can’t either. By the same token, because you don’t have complete control over the OS, you are unable to reconfigure your device for privacy from the OS vendor. I’m not disparaging any of these security controls. All of them reinforce the protection of your data. I’m saying that they are not done primarily for the user’s benefit; that is secondary. Those of you familiar with my work might see the scroll bar near the bottom of this page and wonder why I haven’t mentioned Linux yet. The answer is that desktop operating systems, my preferred kind of Linux OS, benefit from their own examination. In a follow-up to this piece, I will discuss the paradox of desktop security and privacy. Please stay tuned. #security #not #privacy #part #mobile

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Security Is Not Privacy, Part 1: The Mobile Target

In technical fields like information technology, definitions are fundamental. They are the building blocks for constructing useful applications and systems. Yet, despite this, it’s easy to assume a term’s definition and wield it confidently before discovering its true meaning. The two closely related cases that stand out to me are “security” and “privacy.” I say this with full awareness that, in my many writings on information security, I never adequately distinguished these two concepts. It was only after observing enough conflation of these terms that I resolved to examine my own casual treatment of them. So, with the aim of solidifying my own understanding, let’s properly differentiate “information security” and “information privacy.” Security vs. Privacy: Definitions That Matter In the context of information technology, what exactly are security and privacy? Security is the property of denying unauthorized parties from accessing or altering your data. Privacy is the property of preventing the observation of your activities by any third parties to whom you do not expressly consent to observe those activities. As you can see, these principles are related, which is one reason why they’re commonly interchanged. This distinction becomes comprehensible with examples. Let’s start with an instance where security applies, but privacy does not. Spotify uses digital rights management (DRM) software to keep its media secure but not private. DRM is a whole topic of its own, but it essentially uses cryptography to enforce copyright. In Spotify’s case, it’s what constitutes streaming rather than just downloading: the song’s file is present on your device (at least temporarily) just as if you’d downloaded it, but Spotify’s DRM cryptography prevents you from opening the file without the Spotify application. The data on Spotify (audio files) are secure because only users of the application can stream audio, and streamed content can’t be retained, opened, or transmitted to non-users. However, Spotify’s data is not private because nearly anyone with an email address can be a user. Thus, in practice, the company cannot control who exactly can access its data. A more complex example of security without privacy is social media. When you sign up for a social media platform, you accept an end-user license agreement (EULA) authorizing the platform to share your data with its partners and affiliates. Your data stored with “authorized parties” on servers controlled by the platform and its affiliates would be considered secure, provided all these entities successfully defend your data against theft by unauthorized parties. In other words, if everyone who is allowed (by agreement) to have your data encrypts it in transit and at rest, insulates and segments their networks, etc., then your data is secure no matter how many affiliates receive it. In practice, the more parties that have your data, the more likely it is that any one of them is breached, but in theory, they could all defend your data. On the other hand, any data you fork over to the social network is not private because you can’t control who uses your data and how. As soon as your data lands on the platform’s servers, you can’t restrict what they do with it, including sharing your data with other entities, which you also can’t control. Both examples illustrate security without privacy. That’s because privacy entails security, but not the reverse. All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares. If you have privacy, meaning you can completely enforce how any party uses your data (or doesn’t), it is secure by definition because only authorized parties can access your data. Mobile Devices: Secure but Not Private Casually mixing security and privacy can lead people to misunderstand the information security properties that apply to their data in any given scenario. By reevaluating for ourselves whether a given technology affords us security and privacy, we can have a more accurate understanding of how accessible our data really is. One significant misconception I’ve noticed concerns mobile devices. I get the impression that the digital privacy content sphere regards mobile devices as not secure because they aren’t private. But while mobile is designed not to be private, it is specifically designed to be secure. Why is that? Because the value of data is in keeping it in your hands and out of your competitor’s. If you collect data but anyone else can grab your copy, you are not only at no advantage but also at a disadvantage since you’re the only party that spent time and money to collect it from the source. With modest scrutiny, we’ll find that every element of a mobile OS that might be marketed as a privacy feature is, in fact, strictly a security feature. Cybersecurity professionals have hailed application permissions as a major stride in privacy. But whom are they designed to help? These menus apply to applications that request access to certain hardware, from microphones and cameras to flash memory storage and wireless radios. This access restriction feature serves the OS developer by letting users lock out as much of their competition as possible from taking their data. The mobile OS developer controls the OS with un-auditable compiled code. For all you know, permission controls on all the OS’s native apps could be ignored. However, even if we assume that the OS developer doesn’t thwart your restrictions on their own apps, the first-party apps still enjoy pride of place. There are more of them; they are preinstalled on your device, facilitate core mobile device features, require more permissions, and often lose core functions when those permissions are denied. Mobile OSes also sandbox every application, forcing each to run in an isolated software environment, oblivious to other applications and the underlying operating system. This, too, benefits the OS vendor. Like the app permission settings, this functionality makes it harder for third parties to grab the same data the OS effortlessly ingests. The OS relies on its own background processes to obtain the most valuable data and walls off every other app from those processes. Mobile Security Isn’t Designed With You in Mind The most powerful mobile security control is the denial of root privileges to all applications and users (besides, again, the OS itself). While it goes a long way toward keeping the user’s data safe, it is just as effective at subjecting everything and everyone using the device to the dictates of the OS. The security advantage is undeniable: if your user account can’t use root, then any malware that compromises it can’t either. By the same token, because you don’t have complete control over the OS, you are unable to reconfigure your device for privacy from the OS vendor. I’m not disparaging any of these security controls. All of them reinforce the protection of your data. I’m saying that they are not done primarily for the user’s benefit; that is secondary. Those of you familiar with my work might see the scroll bar near the bottom of this page and wonder why I haven’t mentioned Linux yet. The answer is that desktop operating systems, my preferred kind of Linux OS, benefit from their own examination. In a follow-up to this piece, I will discuss the paradox of desktop security and privacy. Please stay tuned.

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TechCrunch een koppeling hebt gedeeld

2025-06-01 16:02:59 ·

Sam Altman biographer Keach Hagey explains why the OpenAI CEO was ‘born for this moment’

In “The Optimist: Sam Altman, OpenAI, and the Race to Invent the Future,” Wall Street Journal reporter Keach Hagey examines our AI-obsessed moment through one of its key figures — Sam Altman, co-founder and CEO of OpenAI.
Hagey begins with Altman’s Midwest childhood, then takes readers through his career at startup Loopt, accelerator Y Combinator, and now at OpenAI. She also sheds new light on the dramatic few days when Altman was fired, then quickly reinstated, as OpenAI’s CEO.
Looking back at what OpenAI employees now call “the Blip,” Hagey said the failed attempt to oust Altman revealed that OpenAI’s complex structure — with a for-profit company controlled by a nonprofit board — is “not stable.” And with OpenAI largely backing down from plans to let the for-profit side take control, Hagey predicted that this “fundamentally unstable arrangement” will “continue to give investors pause.”
Does that mean OpenAI could struggle to raise the funds it needs to keep going? Hagey replied that it could “absolutely” be an issue.
“My research into Sam suggests that he might well be up to that challenge,” she said. “But success is not guaranteed.”
In addition, Hagey’s biographyexamines Altman’s politics, which she described as “pretty traditionally progressive” — making it a bit surprising that he’s struck massive infrastructure deals with the backing of the Trump administration.
“But this is one area where, in some ways, I feel like Sam Altman has been born for this moment, because he is a deal maker and Trump is a deal maker,” Hagey said. “Trump respects nothing so much as a big deal with a big price tag on it, and that is what Sam Altman is really great at.”

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In an interview with TechCrunch, Hagey also discussed Altman’s response to the book, his trustworthiness, and the AI “hype universe.”
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
You open the book by acknowledging some of the reservations that Sam Altman had about the project — this idea that we tend to focus too much on individuals rather than organizations or broad movements, and also that it’s way too early to assess the impact of OpenAI. Did you share those concerns?
Well, I don’t really share them, because this was a biography. This project was to look at a person, not an organization. And I also think that Sam Altman has set himself up in a way where it does matter what kind of moral choices he has made and what his moral formation has been, because the broad project of AI is really a moral project. That is the basis of OpenAI’s existence. So I think these are fair questions to ask about a person, not just an organization.
As far as whether it’s too soon, I mean, sure, it’s definitelyassess the entire impact of AI. But it’s been an extraordinary story for OpenAI — just so far, it’s already changed the stock market, it has changed the entire narrative of business. I’m a business journalist. We do nothing but talk about AI, all day long, every day. So in that way, I don’t think it’s too early.
And despite those reservations, Altman did cooperate with you. Can you say more about what your relationship with him was like during the process of researching the book?
Well, he was definitely not happy when he was informed about the book’s existence. And there was a long period of negotiation, frankly. In the beginning, I figured I was going to write this book without his help — what we call, in the business, a write-around profile. I’ve done plenty of those over my career, and I figured this would just be one more.
Over time, as I made more and more calls, he opened up a little bit. Andhe was generous to sit down with me several times for long interviews and share his thoughts with me.
Has he responded to the finished book at all?
No. He did tweet about the project, about his decision to participate with it, but he was very clear that he was never going to read it. It’s the same way that I don’t like to watch my TV appearances or podcasts that I’m on.
In the book, he’s described as this emblematic Silicon Valley figure. What do you think are the key characteristics that make him representative of the Valley and the tech industry?
In the beginning, I think it was that he was young. The Valley really glorifies youth, and he was 19 years old when he started his first startup. You see him going into these meetings with people twice his age, doing deals with telecom operators for his first startup, and no one could get over that this kid was so smart.
The other is that he is a once-in-a-generation fundraising talent, and that’s really about being a storyteller. I don’t think it’s an accident that you have essentially a salesman and a fundraiser at the top of the most important AI company today,
That ties into one of the questions that runs through the book — this question about Altman’s trustworthiness. Can you say more about the concerns people seem to have about that? To what extent is he a trustworthy figure?
Well, he’s a salesman, so he’s really excellent at getting in a room and convincing people that he can see the future and that he has something in common with them. He gets people to share his vision, which is a rare talent.
There are people who’ve watched that happen a bunch of times, who think, “Okay, what he says does not always map to reality,” and have, over time, lost trust in him. This happened both at his first startup and very famously at OpenAI, as well as at Y Combinator. So it is a pattern, but I think it’s a typical critique of people who have the salesman skill set.
So it’s not necessarily that he’s particularly untrustworthy, but it’s part-and-parcel of being a salesman leading these important companies.
I mean, there also are management issues that are detailed in the book, where he is not great at dealing with conflict, so he’ll basically tell people what they want to hear. That causes a lot of sturm-und-drang in the management ranks, and it’s a pattern. Something like that happened at Loopt, where the executives asked the board to replace him as CEO. And you saw it happen at OpenAI as well.
You’ve touched on Altman’s firing, which was also covered in a book excerpt that was published in the Wall Street Journal. One of the striking things to me, looking back at it, was just how complicated everything was — all the different factions within the company, all the people who seemed pro-Altman one day and then anti-Altman the next. When you pull back from the details, what do you think is the bigger significance of that incident?
The very big picture is that the nonprofit governance structure is not stable. You can’t really take investment from the likes of Microsoft and a bunch of other investors and then give them absolutely no say whatsoever in the governance of the company.
That’s what they have tried to do, but I think what we saw in that firing is how power actually works in the world. When you have stakeholders, even if there’s a piece of paper that says they have no rights, they still have power. And when it became clear that everyone in the company was going to go to Microsoft if they didn’t reinstate Sam Altman, they reinstated Sam Altman.
In the book, you take the story up to maybe the end of 2024. There have been all these developments since then, which you’ve continued to report on, including this announcement that actually, they’re not fully converting to a for-profit. How do you think that’s going to affect OpenAI going forward?
It’s going to make it harder for them to raise money, because they basically had to do an about-face. I know that the new structure going forward of the public benefit corporation is not exactly the same as the current structure of the for-profit — it is a little bit more investor friendly, it does clarify some of those things.
But overall, what you have is a nonprofit board that controls a for-profit company, and that fundamentally unstable arrangement is what led to the so-called Blip. And I think you would continue to give investors pause, going forward, if they are going to have so little control over their investment.
Obviously, OpenAI is still such a capital intensive business. If they have challenges raising more money, is that an existential question for the company?
It absolutely could be. My research into Sam suggests that he might well be up to that challenge. But success is not guaranteed.
Like you said, there’s a dual perspective in the book that’s partly about who Sam is, and partly about what that says about where AI is going from here. How did that research into his particular story shape the way you now look at these broader debates about AI and society?
I went down a rabbit hole in the beginning of the book,into Sam’s father, Jerry Altman, in part because I thought it was striking how he’d been written out of basically every other thing that had ever been written about Sam Altman. What I found in this research was a very idealistic man who was, from youth, very interested in these public-private partnerships and the power of the government to set policy. He ended up having an impact on the way that affordable housing is still financed to this day.
And when I traced Sam’s development, I saw that he has long believed that the government should really be the one that is funding and guiding AI research. In the early days of OpenAI, they went and tried to get the government to invest, as he’s publicly said, and it didn’t work out. But he looks back to these great mid-20th century labs like Xerox PARC and Bell Labs, which are private, but there was a ton of government money running through and supporting that ecosystem. And he says, “That’s the right way to do it.”
Now I am watching daily as it seems like the United States is summoning the forces of state capitalism to get behind Sam Altman’s project to build these data centers, both in the United States and now there was just one last week announced in Abu Dhabi. This is a vision he has had for a very, very long time.
My sense of the vision, as he presented it earlier, was one where, on the one hand, the government is funding these things and building this infrastructure, and on the other hand, the government is also regulating and guiding AI development for safety purposes. And it now seems like the path being pursued is one where they’re backing away from the safety side and doubling down on the government investment side.
Absolutely. Isn’t it fascinating?
You talk about Sam as a political figure, as someone who’s had political ambitions at different times, but also somebody who has what are in many ways traditionally liberal political views while being friends with folks like — at least early on — Elon Musk and Peter Thiel. And he’s done a very good job of navigating the Trump administration. What do you think his politics are right now?
I’m not sure his actual politics have changed, they are pretty traditionally progressive politics. Not completely — he’s been critical about things like cancel culture, but in general, he thinks the government is there to take tax revenue and solve problems.
His success in the Trump administration has been fascinating because he has been able to find their one area of overlap, which is the desire to build a lot of data centers, and just double down on that and not talk about any other stuff. But this is one area where, in some ways, I feel like Sam Altman has been born for this moment, because he is a deal maker and Trump is a deal maker. Trump respects nothing so much as a big deal with a big price tag on it, and that is what Sam Altman is really great at.
You open and close the book not just with Sam’s father, but with his family as a whole. What else is worth highlighting in terms of how his upbringing and family shapes who he is now?
Well, you see both the idealism from his father and also the incredible ambition from his mother, who was a doctor, and had four kids and worked as a dermatologist. I think both of these things work together to shape him. They also had a more troubled marriage than I realized going into the book. So I do think that there’s some anxiety there that Sam himself is very upfront about, that he was a pretty anxious person for much of his life, until he did some meditation and had some experiences.
And there’s his current family — he just had a baby and got married not too long ago. As a young gay man, growing up in the Midwest, he had to overcome some challenges, and I think those challenges both forged him in high school as a brave person who could stand up and take on a room as a public speaker, but also shaped his optimistic view of the world. Because, on that issue, I paint the scene of his wedding: That’s an unimaginable thing from the early ‘90s, or from the ‘80s when he was born. He’s watched society develop and progress in very tangible ways, and I do think that that has helped solidify his faith in progress.
Something that I’ve found writing about AI is that the different visions being presented by people in the field can be so diametrically opposed. You have these wildly utopian visions, but also these warnings that AI could end the world. It gets so hyperbolic that it feels like people are not living in the same reality. Was that a challenge for you in writing the book?
Well, I see those two visions — which feel very far apart — actually being part of the same vision, which is that AI is super important, and it’s going to completely transform everything. No one ever talks about the true opposite of that, which is, “Maybe this is going to be a cool enterprise tool, another way to waste time on the internet, and not quite change everything as much as everyone thinks.” So I see the doomers and the boomers feeding off each other and being part of the same sort of hype universe.
As a journalist and as a biographer, you don’t necessarily come down on one side or the other — but actually, can you say where you come down on that?
Well, I will say that I find myself using it a lot more recently, because it’s gotten a lot better. In the early stages, when I was researching the book, I was definitely a lot more skeptical of its transformative economic power. I’m less skeptical now, because I just use it a lot more.
#sam #altman #biographer #keach #hagey

Sam Altman biographer Keach Hagey explains why the OpenAI CEO was ‘born for this moment’
In “The Optimist: Sam Altman, OpenAI, and the Race to Invent the Future,” Wall Street Journal reporter Keach Hagey examines our AI-obsessed moment through one of its key figures — Sam Altman, co-founder and CEO of OpenAI. Hagey begins with Altman’s Midwest childhood, then takes readers through his career at startup Loopt, accelerator Y Combinator, and now at OpenAI. She also sheds new light on the dramatic few days when Altman was fired, then quickly reinstated, as OpenAI’s CEO. Looking back at what OpenAI employees now call “the Blip,” Hagey said the failed attempt to oust Altman revealed that OpenAI’s complex structure — with a for-profit company controlled by a nonprofit board — is “not stable.” And with OpenAI largely backing down from plans to let the for-profit side take control, Hagey predicted that this “fundamentally unstable arrangement” will “continue to give investors pause.” Does that mean OpenAI could struggle to raise the funds it needs to keep going? Hagey replied that it could “absolutely” be an issue. “My research into Sam suggests that he might well be up to that challenge,” she said. “But success is not guaranteed.” In addition, Hagey’s biographyexamines Altman’s politics, which she described as “pretty traditionally progressive” — making it a bit surprising that he’s struck massive infrastructure deals with the backing of the Trump administration. “But this is one area where, in some ways, I feel like Sam Altman has been born for this moment, because he is a deal maker and Trump is a deal maker,” Hagey said. “Trump respects nothing so much as a big deal with a big price tag on it, and that is what Sam Altman is really great at.” Techcrunch event now through June 4 for TechCrunch Sessions: AI on your ticket to TC Sessions: AI—and get 50% off a second. Hear from leaders at OpenAI, Anthropic, Khosla Ventures, and more during a full day of expert insights, hands-on workshops, and high-impact networking. These low-rate deals disappear when the doors open on June 5. Exhibit at TechCrunch Sessions: AI Secure your spot at TC Sessions: AI and show 1,200+ decision-makers what you’ve built — without the big spend. Available through May 9 or while tables last. Berkeley, CA | June 5 REGISTER NOW In an interview with TechCrunch, Hagey also discussed Altman’s response to the book, his trustworthiness, and the AI “hype universe.” This interview has been edited for length and clarity. You open the book by acknowledging some of the reservations that Sam Altman had about the project — this idea that we tend to focus too much on individuals rather than organizations or broad movements, and also that it’s way too early to assess the impact of OpenAI. Did you share those concerns? Well, I don’t really share them, because this was a biography. This project was to look at a person, not an organization. And I also think that Sam Altman has set himself up in a way where it does matter what kind of moral choices he has made and what his moral formation has been, because the broad project of AI is really a moral project. That is the basis of OpenAI’s existence. So I think these are fair questions to ask about a person, not just an organization. As far as whether it’s too soon, I mean, sure, it’s definitelyassess the entire impact of AI. But it’s been an extraordinary story for OpenAI — just so far, it’s already changed the stock market, it has changed the entire narrative of business. I’m a business journalist. We do nothing but talk about AI, all day long, every day. So in that way, I don’t think it’s too early. And despite those reservations, Altman did cooperate with you. Can you say more about what your relationship with him was like during the process of researching the book? Well, he was definitely not happy when he was informed about the book’s existence. And there was a long period of negotiation, frankly. In the beginning, I figured I was going to write this book without his help — what we call, in the business, a write-around profile. I’ve done plenty of those over my career, and I figured this would just be one more. Over time, as I made more and more calls, he opened up a little bit. Andhe was generous to sit down with me several times for long interviews and share his thoughts with me. Has he responded to the finished book at all? No. He did tweet about the project, about his decision to participate with it, but he was very clear that he was never going to read it. It’s the same way that I don’t like to watch my TV appearances or podcasts that I’m on. In the book, he’s described as this emblematic Silicon Valley figure. What do you think are the key characteristics that make him representative of the Valley and the tech industry? In the beginning, I think it was that he was young. The Valley really glorifies youth, and he was 19 years old when he started his first startup. You see him going into these meetings with people twice his age, doing deals with telecom operators for his first startup, and no one could get over that this kid was so smart. The other is that he is a once-in-a-generation fundraising talent, and that’s really about being a storyteller. I don’t think it’s an accident that you have essentially a salesman and a fundraiser at the top of the most important AI company today, That ties into one of the questions that runs through the book — this question about Altman’s trustworthiness. Can you say more about the concerns people seem to have about that? To what extent is he a trustworthy figure? Well, he’s a salesman, so he’s really excellent at getting in a room and convincing people that he can see the future and that he has something in common with them. He gets people to share his vision, which is a rare talent. There are people who’ve watched that happen a bunch of times, who think, “Okay, what he says does not always map to reality,” and have, over time, lost trust in him. This happened both at his first startup and very famously at OpenAI, as well as at Y Combinator. So it is a pattern, but I think it’s a typical critique of people who have the salesman skill set. So it’s not necessarily that he’s particularly untrustworthy, but it’s part-and-parcel of being a salesman leading these important companies. I mean, there also are management issues that are detailed in the book, where he is not great at dealing with conflict, so he’ll basically tell people what they want to hear. That causes a lot of sturm-und-drang in the management ranks, and it’s a pattern. Something like that happened at Loopt, where the executives asked the board to replace him as CEO. And you saw it happen at OpenAI as well. You’ve touched on Altman’s firing, which was also covered in a book excerpt that was published in the Wall Street Journal. One of the striking things to me, looking back at it, was just how complicated everything was — all the different factions within the company, all the people who seemed pro-Altman one day and then anti-Altman the next. When you pull back from the details, what do you think is the bigger significance of that incident? The very big picture is that the nonprofit governance structure is not stable. You can’t really take investment from the likes of Microsoft and a bunch of other investors and then give them absolutely no say whatsoever in the governance of the company. That’s what they have tried to do, but I think what we saw in that firing is how power actually works in the world. When you have stakeholders, even if there’s a piece of paper that says they have no rights, they still have power. And when it became clear that everyone in the company was going to go to Microsoft if they didn’t reinstate Sam Altman, they reinstated Sam Altman. In the book, you take the story up to maybe the end of 2024. There have been all these developments since then, which you’ve continued to report on, including this announcement that actually, they’re not fully converting to a for-profit. How do you think that’s going to affect OpenAI going forward? It’s going to make it harder for them to raise money, because they basically had to do an about-face. I know that the new structure going forward of the public benefit corporation is not exactly the same as the current structure of the for-profit — it is a little bit more investor friendly, it does clarify some of those things. But overall, what you have is a nonprofit board that controls a for-profit company, and that fundamentally unstable arrangement is what led to the so-called Blip. And I think you would continue to give investors pause, going forward, if they are going to have so little control over their investment. Obviously, OpenAI is still such a capital intensive business. If they have challenges raising more money, is that an existential question for the company? It absolutely could be. My research into Sam suggests that he might well be up to that challenge. But success is not guaranteed. Like you said, there’s a dual perspective in the book that’s partly about who Sam is, and partly about what that says about where AI is going from here. How did that research into his particular story shape the way you now look at these broader debates about AI and society? I went down a rabbit hole in the beginning of the book,into Sam’s father, Jerry Altman, in part because I thought it was striking how he’d been written out of basically every other thing that had ever been written about Sam Altman. What I found in this research was a very idealistic man who was, from youth, very interested in these public-private partnerships and the power of the government to set policy. He ended up having an impact on the way that affordable housing is still financed to this day. And when I traced Sam’s development, I saw that he has long believed that the government should really be the one that is funding and guiding AI research. In the early days of OpenAI, they went and tried to get the government to invest, as he’s publicly said, and it didn’t work out. But he looks back to these great mid-20th century labs like Xerox PARC and Bell Labs, which are private, but there was a ton of government money running through and supporting that ecosystem. And he says, “That’s the right way to do it.” Now I am watching daily as it seems like the United States is summoning the forces of state capitalism to get behind Sam Altman’s project to build these data centers, both in the United States and now there was just one last week announced in Abu Dhabi. This is a vision he has had for a very, very long time. My sense of the vision, as he presented it earlier, was one where, on the one hand, the government is funding these things and building this infrastructure, and on the other hand, the government is also regulating and guiding AI development for safety purposes. And it now seems like the path being pursued is one where they’re backing away from the safety side and doubling down on the government investment side. Absolutely. Isn’t it fascinating? You talk about Sam as a political figure, as someone who’s had political ambitions at different times, but also somebody who has what are in many ways traditionally liberal political views while being friends with folks like — at least early on — Elon Musk and Peter Thiel. And he’s done a very good job of navigating the Trump administration. What do you think his politics are right now? I’m not sure his actual politics have changed, they are pretty traditionally progressive politics. Not completely — he’s been critical about things like cancel culture, but in general, he thinks the government is there to take tax revenue and solve problems. His success in the Trump administration has been fascinating because he has been able to find their one area of overlap, which is the desire to build a lot of data centers, and just double down on that and not talk about any other stuff. But this is one area where, in some ways, I feel like Sam Altman has been born for this moment, because he is a deal maker and Trump is a deal maker. Trump respects nothing so much as a big deal with a big price tag on it, and that is what Sam Altman is really great at. You open and close the book not just with Sam’s father, but with his family as a whole. What else is worth highlighting in terms of how his upbringing and family shapes who he is now? Well, you see both the idealism from his father and also the incredible ambition from his mother, who was a doctor, and had four kids and worked as a dermatologist. I think both of these things work together to shape him. They also had a more troubled marriage than I realized going into the book. So I do think that there’s some anxiety there that Sam himself is very upfront about, that he was a pretty anxious person for much of his life, until he did some meditation and had some experiences. And there’s his current family — he just had a baby and got married not too long ago. As a young gay man, growing up in the Midwest, he had to overcome some challenges, and I think those challenges both forged him in high school as a brave person who could stand up and take on a room as a public speaker, but also shaped his optimistic view of the world. Because, on that issue, I paint the scene of his wedding: That’s an unimaginable thing from the early ‘90s, or from the ‘80s when he was born. He’s watched society develop and progress in very tangible ways, and I do think that that has helped solidify his faith in progress. Something that I’ve found writing about AI is that the different visions being presented by people in the field can be so diametrically opposed. You have these wildly utopian visions, but also these warnings that AI could end the world. It gets so hyperbolic that it feels like people are not living in the same reality. Was that a challenge for you in writing the book? Well, I see those two visions — which feel very far apart — actually being part of the same vision, which is that AI is super important, and it’s going to completely transform everything. No one ever talks about the true opposite of that, which is, “Maybe this is going to be a cool enterprise tool, another way to waste time on the internet, and not quite change everything as much as everyone thinks.” So I see the doomers and the boomers feeding off each other and being part of the same sort of hype universe. As a journalist and as a biographer, you don’t necessarily come down on one side or the other — but actually, can you say where you come down on that? Well, I will say that I find myself using it a lot more recently, because it’s gotten a lot better. In the early stages, when I was researching the book, I was definitely a lot more skeptical of its transformative economic power. I’m less skeptical now, because I just use it a lot more. #sam #altman #biographer #keach #hagey

TECHCRUNCH.COM

Sam Altman biographer Keach Hagey explains why the OpenAI CEO was ‘born for this moment’

In “The Optimist: Sam Altman, OpenAI, and the Race to Invent the Future,” Wall Street Journal reporter Keach Hagey examines our AI-obsessed moment through one of its key figures — Sam Altman, co-founder and CEO of OpenAI. Hagey begins with Altman’s Midwest childhood, then takes readers through his career at startup Loopt, accelerator Y Combinator, and now at OpenAI. She also sheds new light on the dramatic few days when Altman was fired, then quickly reinstated, as OpenAI’s CEO. Looking back at what OpenAI employees now call “the Blip,” Hagey said the failed attempt to oust Altman revealed that OpenAI’s complex structure — with a for-profit company controlled by a nonprofit board — is “not stable.” And with OpenAI largely backing down from plans to let the for-profit side take control, Hagey predicted that this “fundamentally unstable arrangement” will “continue to give investors pause.” Does that mean OpenAI could struggle to raise the funds it needs to keep going? Hagey replied that it could “absolutely” be an issue. “My research into Sam suggests that he might well be up to that challenge,” she said. “But success is not guaranteed.” In addition, Hagey’s biography (also available as an audiobook on Spotify) examines Altman’s politics, which she described as “pretty traditionally progressive” — making it a bit surprising that he’s struck massive infrastructure deals with the backing of the Trump administration. “But this is one area where, in some ways, I feel like Sam Altman has been born for this moment, because he is a deal maker and Trump is a deal maker,” Hagey said. “Trump respects nothing so much as a big deal with a big price tag on it, and that is what Sam Altman is really great at.” Techcrunch event Save now through June 4 for TechCrunch Sessions: AI Save $300 on your ticket to TC Sessions: AI—and get 50% off a second. Hear from leaders at OpenAI, Anthropic, Khosla Ventures, and more during a full day of expert insights, hands-on workshops, and high-impact networking. These low-rate deals disappear when the doors open on June 5. Exhibit at TechCrunch Sessions: AI Secure your spot at TC Sessions: AI and show 1,200+ decision-makers what you’ve built — without the big spend. Available through May 9 or while tables last. Berkeley, CA | June 5 REGISTER NOW In an interview with TechCrunch, Hagey also discussed Altman’s response to the book, his trustworthiness, and the AI “hype universe.” This interview has been edited for length and clarity. You open the book by acknowledging some of the reservations that Sam Altman had about the project — this idea that we tend to focus too much on individuals rather than organizations or broad movements, and also that it’s way too early to assess the impact of OpenAI. Did you share those concerns? Well, I don’t really share them, because this was a biography. This project was to look at a person, not an organization. And I also think that Sam Altman has set himself up in a way where it does matter what kind of moral choices he has made and what his moral formation has been, because the broad project of AI is really a moral project. That is the basis of OpenAI’s existence. So I think these are fair questions to ask about a person, not just an organization. As far as whether it’s too soon, I mean, sure, it’s definitely [early to] assess the entire impact of AI. But it’s been an extraordinary story for OpenAI — just so far, it’s already changed the stock market, it has changed the entire narrative of business. I’m a business journalist. We do nothing but talk about AI, all day long, every day. So in that way, I don’t think it’s too early. And despite those reservations, Altman did cooperate with you. Can you say more about what your relationship with him was like during the process of researching the book? Well, he was definitely not happy when he was informed about the book’s existence. And there was a long period of negotiation, frankly. In the beginning, I figured I was going to write this book without his help — what we call, in the business, a write-around profile. I’ve done plenty of those over my career, and I figured this would just be one more. Over time, as I made more and more calls, he opened up a little bit. And [eventually,] he was generous to sit down with me several times for long interviews and share his thoughts with me. Has he responded to the finished book at all? No. He did tweet about the project, about his decision to participate with it, but he was very clear that he was never going to read it. It’s the same way that I don’t like to watch my TV appearances or podcasts that I’m on. In the book, he’s described as this emblematic Silicon Valley figure. What do you think are the key characteristics that make him representative of the Valley and the tech industry? In the beginning, I think it was that he was young. The Valley really glorifies youth, and he was 19 years old when he started his first startup. You see him going into these meetings with people twice his age, doing deals with telecom operators for his first startup, and no one could get over that this kid was so smart. The other is that he is a once-in-a-generation fundraising talent, and that’s really about being a storyteller. I don’t think it’s an accident that you have essentially a salesman and a fundraiser at the top of the most important AI company today, That ties into one of the questions that runs through the book — this question about Altman’s trustworthiness. Can you say more about the concerns people seem to have about that? To what extent is he a trustworthy figure? Well, he’s a salesman, so he’s really excellent at getting in a room and convincing people that he can see the future and that he has something in common with them. He gets people to share his vision, which is a rare talent. There are people who’ve watched that happen a bunch of times, who think, “Okay, what he says does not always map to reality,” and have, over time, lost trust in him. This happened both at his first startup and very famously at OpenAI, as well as at Y Combinator. So it is a pattern, but I think it’s a typical critique of people who have the salesman skill set. So it’s not necessarily that he’s particularly untrustworthy, but it’s part-and-parcel of being a salesman leading these important companies. I mean, there also are management issues that are detailed in the book, where he is not great at dealing with conflict, so he’ll basically tell people what they want to hear. That causes a lot of sturm-und-drang in the management ranks, and it’s a pattern. Something like that happened at Loopt, where the executives asked the board to replace him as CEO. And you saw it happen at OpenAI as well. You’ve touched on Altman’s firing, which was also covered in a book excerpt that was published in the Wall Street Journal. One of the striking things to me, looking back at it, was just how complicated everything was — all the different factions within the company, all the people who seemed pro-Altman one day and then anti-Altman the next. When you pull back from the details, what do you think is the bigger significance of that incident? The very big picture is that the nonprofit governance structure is not stable. You can’t really take investment from the likes of Microsoft and a bunch of other investors and then give them absolutely no say whatsoever in the governance of the company. That’s what they have tried to do, but I think what we saw in that firing is how power actually works in the world. When you have stakeholders, even if there’s a piece of paper that says they have no rights, they still have power. And when it became clear that everyone in the company was going to go to Microsoft if they didn’t reinstate Sam Altman, they reinstated Sam Altman. In the book, you take the story up to maybe the end of 2024. There have been all these developments since then, which you’ve continued to report on, including this announcement that actually, they’re not fully converting to a for-profit. How do you think that’s going to affect OpenAI going forward? It’s going to make it harder for them to raise money, because they basically had to do an about-face. I know that the new structure going forward of the public benefit corporation is not exactly the same as the current structure of the for-profit — it is a little bit more investor friendly, it does clarify some of those things. But overall, what you have is a nonprofit board that controls a for-profit company, and that fundamentally unstable arrangement is what led to the so-called Blip. And I think you would continue to give investors pause, going forward, if they are going to have so little control over their investment. Obviously, OpenAI is still such a capital intensive business. If they have challenges raising more money, is that an existential question for the company? It absolutely could be. My research into Sam suggests that he might well be up to that challenge. But success is not guaranteed. Like you said, there’s a dual perspective in the book that’s partly about who Sam is, and partly about what that says about where AI is going from here. How did that research into his particular story shape the way you now look at these broader debates about AI and society? I went down a rabbit hole in the beginning of the book, [looking] into Sam’s father, Jerry Altman, in part because I thought it was striking how he’d been written out of basically every other thing that had ever been written about Sam Altman. What I found in this research was a very idealistic man who was, from youth, very interested in these public-private partnerships and the power of the government to set policy. He ended up having an impact on the way that affordable housing is still financed to this day. And when I traced Sam’s development, I saw that he has long believed that the government should really be the one that is funding and guiding AI research. In the early days of OpenAI, they went and tried to get the government to invest, as he’s publicly said, and it didn’t work out. But he looks back to these great mid-20th century labs like Xerox PARC and Bell Labs, which are private, but there was a ton of government money running through and supporting that ecosystem. And he says, “That’s the right way to do it.” Now I am watching daily as it seems like the United States is summoning the forces of state capitalism to get behind Sam Altman’s project to build these data centers, both in the United States and now there was just one last week announced in Abu Dhabi. This is a vision he has had for a very, very long time. My sense of the vision, as he presented it earlier, was one where, on the one hand, the government is funding these things and building this infrastructure, and on the other hand, the government is also regulating and guiding AI development for safety purposes. And it now seems like the path being pursued is one where they’re backing away from the safety side and doubling down on the government investment side. Absolutely. Isn’t it fascinating? You talk about Sam as a political figure, as someone who’s had political ambitions at different times, but also somebody who has what are in many ways traditionally liberal political views while being friends with folks like — at least early on — Elon Musk and Peter Thiel. And he’s done a very good job of navigating the Trump administration. What do you think his politics are right now? I’m not sure his actual politics have changed, they are pretty traditionally progressive politics. Not completely — he’s been critical about things like cancel culture, but in general, he thinks the government is there to take tax revenue and solve problems. His success in the Trump administration has been fascinating because he has been able to find their one area of overlap, which is the desire to build a lot of data centers, and just double down on that and not talk about any other stuff. But this is one area where, in some ways, I feel like Sam Altman has been born for this moment, because he is a deal maker and Trump is a deal maker. Trump respects nothing so much as a big deal with a big price tag on it, and that is what Sam Altman is really great at. You open and close the book not just with Sam’s father, but with his family as a whole. What else is worth highlighting in terms of how his upbringing and family shapes who he is now? Well, you see both the idealism from his father and also the incredible ambition from his mother, who was a doctor, and had four kids and worked as a dermatologist. I think both of these things work together to shape him. They also had a more troubled marriage than I realized going into the book. So I do think that there’s some anxiety there that Sam himself is very upfront about, that he was a pretty anxious person for much of his life, until he did some meditation and had some experiences. And there’s his current family — he just had a baby and got married not too long ago. As a young gay man, growing up in the Midwest, he had to overcome some challenges, and I think those challenges both forged him in high school as a brave person who could stand up and take on a room as a public speaker, but also shaped his optimistic view of the world. Because, on that issue, I paint the scene of his wedding: That’s an unimaginable thing from the early ‘90s, or from the ‘80s when he was born. He’s watched society develop and progress in very tangible ways, and I do think that that has helped solidify his faith in progress. Something that I’ve found writing about AI is that the different visions being presented by people in the field can be so diametrically opposed. You have these wildly utopian visions, but also these warnings that AI could end the world. It gets so hyperbolic that it feels like people are not living in the same reality. Was that a challenge for you in writing the book? Well, I see those two visions — which feel very far apart — actually being part of the same vision, which is that AI is super important, and it’s going to completely transform everything. No one ever talks about the true opposite of that, which is, “Maybe this is going to be a cool enterprise tool, another way to waste time on the internet, and not quite change everything as much as everyone thinks.” So I see the doomers and the boomers feeding off each other and being part of the same sort of hype universe. As a journalist and as a biographer, you don’t necessarily come down on one side or the other — but actually, can you say where you come down on that? Well, I will say that I find myself using it a lot more recently, because it’s gotten a lot better. In the early stages, when I was researching the book, I was definitely a lot more skeptical of its transformative economic power. I’m less skeptical now, because I just use it a lot more.

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2025-06-01 15:33:42 ·

This startup wants to make more climate-friendly metal in the US

A California-based company called Magrathea just turned on a new electrolyzer that can make magnesium metal from seawater. The technology has the potential to produce the material, which is used in vehicles and defense applications, with net-zero greenhouse-gas emissions.

Magnesium is an incredibly light metal, and it’s used for parts in cars and planes, as well as in aluminum alloys like those in vehicles. The metal is also used in defense and industrial applications, including the production processes for steel and titanium.

Today, China dominates production of magnesium, and the most common method generates a lot of the emissions that cause climate change. If Magrathea can scale up its process, it could help provide an alternative source of the metal and clean up industries that rely on it, including automotive manufacturing.

The star of Magrathea’s process is an electrolyzer, a device that uses electricity to split a material into its constituent elements. Using an electrolyzer in magnesium production isn’t new, but Magrathea’s approach represents an update. “We really modernized it and brought it into the 21st century,” says Alex Grant, Magrathea’s cofounder and CEO.

The whole process starts with salty water. There are small amounts of magnesium in seawater, as well as in salt lakes and groundwater.If you take that seawater or brine and clean it up, concentrate it, and dry it out, you get a solid magnesium chloride salt.

Magrathea takes that saltand puts it into the electrolyzer. The device reaches temperatures of about 700 °Cand runs electricity through the molten salt to split the magnesium from the chlorine, forming magnesium metal.

Typically, running an electrolyzer in this process would require a steady source of electricity. The temperature is generally kept just high enough to maintain the salt in a molten state. Allowing it to cool down too much would allow it to solidify, messing up the process and potentially damaging the equipment. Heating it up more than necessary would just waste energy.

Magrathea’s approach builds in flexibility. Basically, the company runs its electrolyzer about 100 °C higher than is necessary to keep the molten salt a liquid. It then uses the extra heat in inventive ways, including to dry out the magnesium salt that eventually goes into the reactor. This preparation can be done intermittently, so the company can take in electricity when it’s cheaper or when more renewables are available, cutting costs and emissions. In addition, the process will make a co-product, called magnesium oxide, that can be used to trap carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, helping to cancel out the remaining carbon pollution.

The result could be a production process with net-zero emissions, according to an independent life cycle assessment completed in January. While it likely won’t reach this bar at first, the potential is there for a much more climate-friendly process than what’s used in the industry today, Grant says.

Breaking into magnesium production won’t be simple, says Simon Jowitt, director of the Nevada Bureau of Mines and of the Center for Research in Economic Geology at the University of Nevada, Reno.

China produces roughly 95% of the global supply as of 2024, according to data from the US Geological Survey. This dominant position means companies there can flood the market with cheap metal, making it difficult for others to compete. “The economics of all this is uncertain,” Jowitt says.

The US has some trade protections in place, including an anti-dumping duty, but newer players with alternative processes can still face obstacles. US Magnesium, a company based in Utah, was the only company making magnesium in the US in recent years, but it shut down production in 2022 after equipment failures and a history of environmental concerns.

Magrathea plans to start building a demonstration plant in Utah in late 2025 or early 2026, which will have a capacity of roughly 1,000 tons per year and should be running in 2027. In February the company announced that it signed an agreement with a major automaker, though it declined to share its name on the record. The automaker pre-purchased material from the demonstration plant and will incorporate it into existing products.

After the demonstration plant is running, the next step would be to build a commercial plant with a larger capacity of around 50,000 tons annually.
#this #startup #wants #make #more

This startup wants to make more climate-friendly metal in the US
A California-based company called Magrathea just turned on a new electrolyzer that can make magnesium metal from seawater. The technology has the potential to produce the material, which is used in vehicles and defense applications, with net-zero greenhouse-gas emissions. Magnesium is an incredibly light metal, and it’s used for parts in cars and planes, as well as in aluminum alloys like those in vehicles. The metal is also used in defense and industrial applications, including the production processes for steel and titanium. Today, China dominates production of magnesium, and the most common method generates a lot of the emissions that cause climate change. If Magrathea can scale up its process, it could help provide an alternative source of the metal and clean up industries that rely on it, including automotive manufacturing. The star of Magrathea’s process is an electrolyzer, a device that uses electricity to split a material into its constituent elements. Using an electrolyzer in magnesium production isn’t new, but Magrathea’s approach represents an update. “We really modernized it and brought it into the 21st century,” says Alex Grant, Magrathea’s cofounder and CEO. The whole process starts with salty water. There are small amounts of magnesium in seawater, as well as in salt lakes and groundwater.If you take that seawater or brine and clean it up, concentrate it, and dry it out, you get a solid magnesium chloride salt. Magrathea takes that saltand puts it into the electrolyzer. The device reaches temperatures of about 700 °Cand runs electricity through the molten salt to split the magnesium from the chlorine, forming magnesium metal. Typically, running an electrolyzer in this process would require a steady source of electricity. The temperature is generally kept just high enough to maintain the salt in a molten state. Allowing it to cool down too much would allow it to solidify, messing up the process and potentially damaging the equipment. Heating it up more than necessary would just waste energy. Magrathea’s approach builds in flexibility. Basically, the company runs its electrolyzer about 100 °C higher than is necessary to keep the molten salt a liquid. It then uses the extra heat in inventive ways, including to dry out the magnesium salt that eventually goes into the reactor. This preparation can be done intermittently, so the company can take in electricity when it’s cheaper or when more renewables are available, cutting costs and emissions. In addition, the process will make a co-product, called magnesium oxide, that can be used to trap carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, helping to cancel out the remaining carbon pollution. The result could be a production process with net-zero emissions, according to an independent life cycle assessment completed in January. While it likely won’t reach this bar at first, the potential is there for a much more climate-friendly process than what’s used in the industry today, Grant says. Breaking into magnesium production won’t be simple, says Simon Jowitt, director of the Nevada Bureau of Mines and of the Center for Research in Economic Geology at the University of Nevada, Reno. China produces roughly 95% of the global supply as of 2024, according to data from the US Geological Survey. This dominant position means companies there can flood the market with cheap metal, making it difficult for others to compete. “The economics of all this is uncertain,” Jowitt says. The US has some trade protections in place, including an anti-dumping duty, but newer players with alternative processes can still face obstacles. US Magnesium, a company based in Utah, was the only company making magnesium in the US in recent years, but it shut down production in 2022 after equipment failures and a history of environmental concerns. Magrathea plans to start building a demonstration plant in Utah in late 2025 or early 2026, which will have a capacity of roughly 1,000 tons per year and should be running in 2027. In February the company announced that it signed an agreement with a major automaker, though it declined to share its name on the record. The automaker pre-purchased material from the demonstration plant and will incorporate it into existing products. After the demonstration plant is running, the next step would be to build a commercial plant with a larger capacity of around 50,000 tons annually. #this #startup #wants #make #more

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This startup wants to make more climate-friendly metal in the US

A California-based company called Magrathea just turned on a new electrolyzer that can make magnesium metal from seawater. The technology has the potential to produce the material, which is used in vehicles and defense applications, with net-zero greenhouse-gas emissions. Magnesium is an incredibly light metal, and it’s used for parts in cars and planes, as well as in aluminum alloys like those in vehicles. The metal is also used in defense and industrial applications, including the production processes for steel and titanium. Today, China dominates production of magnesium, and the most common method generates a lot of the emissions that cause climate change. If Magrathea can scale up its process, it could help provide an alternative source of the metal and clean up industries that rely on it, including automotive manufacturing. The star of Magrathea’s process is an electrolyzer, a device that uses electricity to split a material into its constituent elements. Using an electrolyzer in magnesium production isn’t new, but Magrathea’s approach represents an update. “We really modernized it and brought it into the 21st century,” says Alex Grant, Magrathea’s cofounder and CEO. The whole process starts with salty water. There are small amounts of magnesium in seawater, as well as in salt lakes and groundwater. (In seawater, the concentration is about 1,300 parts per million, so magnesium makes up about 0.1% of seawater by weight.) If you take that seawater or brine and clean it up, concentrate it, and dry it out, you get a solid magnesium chloride salt. Magrathea takes that salt (which it currently buys from Cargill) and puts it into the electrolyzer. The device reaches temperatures of about 700 °C (almost 1,300 °F) and runs electricity through the molten salt to split the magnesium from the chlorine, forming magnesium metal. Typically, running an electrolyzer in this process would require a steady source of electricity. The temperature is generally kept just high enough to maintain the salt in a molten state. Allowing it to cool down too much would allow it to solidify, messing up the process and potentially damaging the equipment. Heating it up more than necessary would just waste energy. Magrathea’s approach builds in flexibility. Basically, the company runs its electrolyzer about 100 °C higher than is necessary to keep the molten salt a liquid. It then uses the extra heat in inventive ways, including to dry out the magnesium salt that eventually goes into the reactor. This preparation can be done intermittently, so the company can take in electricity when it’s cheaper or when more renewables are available, cutting costs and emissions. In addition, the process will make a co-product, called magnesium oxide, that can be used to trap carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, helping to cancel out the remaining carbon pollution. The result could be a production process with net-zero emissions, according to an independent life cycle assessment completed in January. While it likely won’t reach this bar at first, the potential is there for a much more climate-friendly process than what’s used in the industry today, Grant says. Breaking into magnesium production won’t be simple, says Simon Jowitt, director of the Nevada Bureau of Mines and of the Center for Research in Economic Geology at the University of Nevada, Reno. China produces roughly 95% of the global supply as of 2024, according to data from the US Geological Survey. This dominant position means companies there can flood the market with cheap metal, making it difficult for others to compete. “The economics of all this is uncertain,” Jowitt says. The US has some trade protections in place, including an anti-dumping duty, but newer players with alternative processes can still face obstacles. US Magnesium, a company based in Utah, was the only company making magnesium in the US in recent years, but it shut down production in 2022 after equipment failures and a history of environmental concerns. Magrathea plans to start building a demonstration plant in Utah in late 2025 or early 2026, which will have a capacity of roughly 1,000 tons per year and should be running in 2027. In February the company announced that it signed an agreement with a major automaker, though it declined to share its name on the record. The automaker pre-purchased material from the demonstration plant and will incorporate it into existing products. After the demonstration plant is running, the next step would be to build a commercial plant with a larger capacity of around 50,000 tons annually.

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2025-05-30 15:18:59 ·

How to Check and Fix Your Email Sender Reputation

Reading Time: 8 minutes
Sometimes, even the slickest emails can land with a thud in the spam folder. The culprit? Your email sender reputation.
Just like a bank checks your credit history before lending you money, mailbox providerscheck your sender reputation before deciding whether to deliver your customer relationship emails to the inbox or banish them to spam.
So buckle up, because here, we’re about to unpack everything you need to know about what an email domain reputation is and how to keep yours squeaky clean.

Now, you’re probably wondering…

What is Email Sender Reputation?
Email sender reputation, also known as email domain reputation, is a measure of your brand’s trustworthiness as an email sender. It’s based on factors like your sending history, email engagement, and complaint rates, influencing whether mailbox providers deliver your messages to recipients’ inboxes or junk folders.
A solid sender reputation is the golden ticket to inbox placement. Without it, your carefully crafted automated email marketing campaigns might as well be shouting into the void.
Mailbox providers are constantly on the lookout for spammers and shady senders, and your reputation is a key indicator of whether you’re one of the good guys.
But how do they know that?

5 Factors That Influence Email Marketing Sender Reputation
Your email sending reputation isn’t built overnight; it’s a result of consistent behavior and several critical factors.

Let’s break down the big five:
1. Quality of Your Email List
Building your email list is hard, we know. But honestly, validating it to ensure that all email addresses are real and belong to existing subscribers helps you maintain a positive sender reputation score with mailbox providers. This is why you should use a proper email validation API, as it can help you quickly check if the email addresses are legitimate.
Your reputation score can suffer if you’re labeled as a bad email sender, with all the bounces you get from a bad email list.
2. Email Sending History
Having an established history with a particular IP address can boost the legitimacy and reputation score of your emails, which means the sender, messages, and recipients are all coming from a legitimate place.
Spammers will often change IP addresses and, therefore, cannot establish a long and reputable sending history with IPs.
3. Consistency and Volume of Emails
The number of emails you send and your consistency in sending them are also indicators of your legitimacy and reputation. Sending two emails every other week, for example, shows stability and predictability in terms of your sending volume and activities.
Mailbox providers and Internet Service Providersalso examine your sending patterns and frequency to determine whether you’re still on the right track or have turned to spamming.
4. Email Open Rates or Engagement
This is a metric that records subscriber activity or your email engagement, such as the open or click-through rates. It’s very significant because mailbox providers value their subscribers’ preferences. Your emails could be filtered out if there is a very low response rate or no interactions at all.
5. Emails Marked as ‘SPAM’
Mailbox providers would take a cue from their subscribers’ preferences whenever they receive emails.
So, if your email messages are consistently marked as ‘Spam’, then this feedback would result in your emails being screened or placed in the Spam or Junk folder. And that’s not where you’d want your emails to hang out.

How to Check Email Sender Reputation
You can verify your email domain reputation by monitoring key metrics and using reputation checking tools.
Many email marketing software platformsprovide dashboards and analytics that help you monitor these crucial indicators. MoEngage goes a step further by offering insights and tools to help you proactively manage and improve your email deliverability, making it easier to spot and address potential reputation issues before they escalate. In fact, you can achieve an inbox placement rate of over 95%!
Coming back to the topic, the platform indicates email domain reputation as High, Medium, Low, or Bad. More specifically, it lets you:

Filter campaigns based on reputation while exporting their data.
See historical trends in your domain reputation.
View more information, such as when the reputation information was last updated.
Analyze email marketing metrics, like open rates and click-through rates.

How an Email Sender Reputation Score Works
Your email sender reputation score is a dynamic rating that mailbox providers assign to your sending domain and IP address. This score isn’t a fixed number, but rather, a constantly evolving assessment based on your list quality, sending history, and other factors we’ve discussed above.
Higher scores generally mean better inbox placement, while lower scores can lead to the dreaded spam folder. Different mailbox providers have their own algorithms for calculating this score, and the exact formulas are usually kept secret.
However, the underlying principles revolve around your sending behavior and recipient engagement.
How Can You Do a Domain Reputation Test and How Often Should You Do This?
You can run an email domain reputation test using various software tools. These reputation checkers analyze your domain and IP address against known blacklists and provide insights into your current standing.
Ideally, you should be monitoring your key metrics within your ESP regularlyand perform a more comprehensive domain reputation test at least monthly, or more frequently if you’re experiencing deliverability issues. Consistent monitoring helps you catch problems early and maintain a healthy reputation.

3 Best Email Domain Reputation Checkers
Alright, let’s talk tools. While your ESP often provides built-in deliverability insights, these external domain reputation checkers can offer another layer of perspective. Let’s jump right in!
1. MoEngage

Okay, we might be a little biased, but hear us out.
MoEngage is more than just an email marketing platform; it’s a powerhouse for cross-channel customer engagement. Its robust analytics and deliverability features give you a clear view of your email performance, helping you proactively manage your email sender reputation.
MoEngage stands out because it integrates domain reputation monitoring with tools to improve engagement and personalize your campaigns, leading to better deliverability in the long run. Unlike some standalone domain reputation checkers, MoEngage provides actionable insights within your workflow.
How Pricing Works: MoEngage offers customized pricing plans based on your specific needs and scale. Contact the sales team for a personalized quote.
Best For: Brands looking for an integrated customer engagement platformwith robust email deliverability management capabilities.
2. Spamhaus Project

The Spamhaus Project allows you to track spam, malware, phishing, and other cybersecurity threats. ISPs and email servers filter out unwanted and harmful content using Spamhaus’s DNS-based blocklists.
How Pricing Works: Spamhaus provides its blacklist data and lookup tools for free to most users, as part of their mission to combat spam.
Best For: Quickly checking if your domain or IP is on major spam blacklists.
3. MxToolbox

You can use MxToolbox to check if your domain is mentioned on any email blocklists. It scans your domain for mail servers, DNS records, web servers, and any problems.
While comprehensive in its checks, this domain reputation checker doesn’t provide the same level of integrated deliverability management and analytics that a platform like MoEngage offers.
How Pricing Works: MxToolbox offers both free tools and paid subscription plans with more advanced features, with pricing starting from around per month.
Best For: Performing a broad check across numerous email blacklists.

How to Improve Your Email Domain Reputation
So, your domain email reputation doesn’t look as shiny as you’d like? No worries! Here are concrete steps you can take to improve it.

Think of it as spring cleaning for your email sending practices.
1. Manage a Clean Email List
Email list management is foundational. Regularly prune inactive subscribers, remove bounced addresses, and promptly honor unsubscribe requests. Implement a double opt-in process to ensure subscribers genuinely want to hear from you.
A clean, engaged email list signals to mailbox providers that you’re sending to interested recipients, and reduces bounce rates and spam complaints. It’s crucial for a positive email sender reputation score.
2. Send Confirmation Emails with Double Opt-Ins
Include double opt-ins where you send automated confirmation emails to subscribers. This helps you distinguish valid email addresses from nonexistent ones.
Basically, protecting your email sender reputation is easy when you adhere to best practices. Ensuring that your email messages are engaging and interesting helps you get more clicks and open rates. Attracting more interaction to your email messages sends a signal to mailbox providers that you have a legitimate and professional organization.
Increasing the positive activities and reviews will help build and solidify your branding strategy, sending a message that is relatable and understood by your subscribers.
3. Pause Violating Campaigns
Notice a sudden spike in bounces or spam complaints after a particular email marketing campaign? Pause the campaign immediately to investigate the cause.
Ideally, you should not send transactional and non-transactional emails from the same domain. If the compliance requirements are met, there is no need to pause transactional emails. However, you should pause all one-time emails.
Continuing to send problematic emails will only further damage your email sending reputation. Addressing the issue swiftly demonstrates responsibility to mailbox providers.
4. Correct the Mistakes
Once you’ve paused a problematic campaign, take the time to understand what went wrong. Did you use a purchased list? Was the content or subject line misleading?.
Identify the root cause and implement corrective measures so it doesn’t happen again. Showing that you learn from your mistakes helps rebuild trust with mailbox providers over time.
Then, raise a ticket to Gmail or other ESP explaining the cause behind the reputation issues, your changes, and the next steps you plan to follow. Have checkpoints to detect issues immediately, so you can always stay on top of them.
5. Use Subdomains for Sending Emails
Establish a subdomain you’re going to use only for sending emails to customers. That’s because if anything goes wrong, the subdomain will take the hit directly, while mildly affecting your company’s main registered domain. It’s like a backup.
Also, hopefully, your customers will remember and recognize your subdomain with time. So even if your emails do land in the spam folder, customers might mark them as ‘Not spam’. Yay!
6. Resume and Ramp Up Your Email Frequency
After addressing the issues and making necessary changes, don’t be afraid to resume sending. But take baby steps.
Resume your transactional emails first. Don’t send transactional and promotional emails from the same domains and IPs. If you already have, separate them while correcting your email setup.
Next, resume your personalized event-triggered campaigns. Then, slowly send one-time campaigns to email openers and clickers. Send at a lower RPM and send only 2-3 campaigns per week.
After the email domain reputation improves, gradually increase the overall sending frequency and volume.
When emailing non-engaged customers, slowly raise your email frequency to prevent sudden volume spikes from triggering spam filters. This careful approach communicates to mailbox providers that you are a responsible sender.
7. Customize Your Sending Patterns
Avoid sending all your emails at the same time to everyone on your list. Segment your audience and tailor your sending schedules based on their engagement and time zones.
This shows mailbox providers that you’re sending relevant content to the right customers at the right time, improving engagement and your overall email marketing domain reputation.
Create lifecycle campaigns to engage your customers. Use dynamic segments, so inactive customers get dropped off automatically. Implement personalization across every aspect of your email.

Maintaining Email Domain Reputation with MoEngage
Maintaining a stellar email domain reputation is an ongoing effort, but it doesn’t have to be complicated.
Hundreds of B2C brands trust MoEngage to provide the insights and tools they need to monitor deliverability, understand audience engagement, and proactively manage their sending practices. By leveraging the platform’s analytics and segmentation capabilities, our customers can be sure their emails consistently land in the inbox, where they belong.
Ready to take control of your email deliverability and build a rock-solid email sender reputation? Explore MoEngage’s comprehensive email marketing solutions. Or better yet, request a demo to see MoEngage’s email solutions in action today.
The post How to Check and Fix Your Email Sender Reputation appeared first on MoEngage.
#how #check #fix #your #email

How to Check and Fix Your Email Sender Reputation
Reading Time: 8 minutes Sometimes, even the slickest emails can land with a thud in the spam folder. The culprit? Your email sender reputation. Just like a bank checks your credit history before lending you money, mailbox providerscheck your sender reputation before deciding whether to deliver your customer relationship emails to the inbox or banish them to spam. So buckle up, because here, we’re about to unpack everything you need to know about what an email domain reputation is and how to keep yours squeaky clean. Now, you’re probably wondering… What is Email Sender Reputation? Email sender reputation, also known as email domain reputation, is a measure of your brand’s trustworthiness as an email sender. It’s based on factors like your sending history, email engagement, and complaint rates, influencing whether mailbox providers deliver your messages to recipients’ inboxes or junk folders. A solid sender reputation is the golden ticket to inbox placement. Without it, your carefully crafted automated email marketing campaigns might as well be shouting into the void. Mailbox providers are constantly on the lookout for spammers and shady senders, and your reputation is a key indicator of whether you’re one of the good guys. But how do they know that? 5 Factors That Influence Email Marketing Sender Reputation Your email sending reputation isn’t built overnight; it’s a result of consistent behavior and several critical factors. Let’s break down the big five: 1. Quality of Your Email List Building your email list is hard, we know. But honestly, validating it to ensure that all email addresses are real and belong to existing subscribers helps you maintain a positive sender reputation score with mailbox providers. This is why you should use a proper email validation API, as it can help you quickly check if the email addresses are legitimate. Your reputation score can suffer if you’re labeled as a bad email sender, with all the bounces you get from a bad email list. 2. Email Sending History Having an established history with a particular IP address can boost the legitimacy and reputation score of your emails, which means the sender, messages, and recipients are all coming from a legitimate place. Spammers will often change IP addresses and, therefore, cannot establish a long and reputable sending history with IPs. 3. Consistency and Volume of Emails The number of emails you send and your consistency in sending them are also indicators of your legitimacy and reputation. Sending two emails every other week, for example, shows stability and predictability in terms of your sending volume and activities. Mailbox providers and Internet Service Providersalso examine your sending patterns and frequency to determine whether you’re still on the right track or have turned to spamming. 4. Email Open Rates or Engagement This is a metric that records subscriber activity or your email engagement, such as the open or click-through rates. It’s very significant because mailbox providers value their subscribers’ preferences. Your emails could be filtered out if there is a very low response rate or no interactions at all. 5. Emails Marked as ‘SPAM’ Mailbox providers would take a cue from their subscribers’ preferences whenever they receive emails. So, if your email messages are consistently marked as ‘Spam’, then this feedback would result in your emails being screened or placed in the Spam or Junk folder. And that’s not where you’d want your emails to hang out. How to Check Email Sender Reputation You can verify your email domain reputation by monitoring key metrics and using reputation checking tools. Many email marketing software platformsprovide dashboards and analytics that help you monitor these crucial indicators. MoEngage goes a step further by offering insights and tools to help you proactively manage and improve your email deliverability, making it easier to spot and address potential reputation issues before they escalate. In fact, you can achieve an inbox placement rate of over 95%! Coming back to the topic, the platform indicates email domain reputation as High, Medium, Low, or Bad. More specifically, it lets you: Filter campaigns based on reputation while exporting their data. See historical trends in your domain reputation. View more information, such as when the reputation information was last updated. Analyze email marketing metrics, like open rates and click-through rates. How an Email Sender Reputation Score Works Your email sender reputation score is a dynamic rating that mailbox providers assign to your sending domain and IP address. This score isn’t a fixed number, but rather, a constantly evolving assessment based on your list quality, sending history, and other factors we’ve discussed above. Higher scores generally mean better inbox placement, while lower scores can lead to the dreaded spam folder. Different mailbox providers have their own algorithms for calculating this score, and the exact formulas are usually kept secret. However, the underlying principles revolve around your sending behavior and recipient engagement. How Can You Do a Domain Reputation Test and How Often Should You Do This? You can run an email domain reputation test using various software tools. These reputation checkers analyze your domain and IP address against known blacklists and provide insights into your current standing. Ideally, you should be monitoring your key metrics within your ESP regularlyand perform a more comprehensive domain reputation test at least monthly, or more frequently if you’re experiencing deliverability issues. Consistent monitoring helps you catch problems early and maintain a healthy reputation. 3 Best Email Domain Reputation Checkers Alright, let’s talk tools. While your ESP often provides built-in deliverability insights, these external domain reputation checkers can offer another layer of perspective. Let’s jump right in! 1. MoEngage Okay, we might be a little biased, but hear us out. MoEngage is more than just an email marketing platform; it’s a powerhouse for cross-channel customer engagement. Its robust analytics and deliverability features give you a clear view of your email performance, helping you proactively manage your email sender reputation. MoEngage stands out because it integrates domain reputation monitoring with tools to improve engagement and personalize your campaigns, leading to better deliverability in the long run. Unlike some standalone domain reputation checkers, MoEngage provides actionable insights within your workflow. How Pricing Works: MoEngage offers customized pricing plans based on your specific needs and scale. Contact the sales team for a personalized quote. Best For: Brands looking for an integrated customer engagement platformwith robust email deliverability management capabilities. 2. Spamhaus Project The Spamhaus Project allows you to track spam, malware, phishing, and other cybersecurity threats. ISPs and email servers filter out unwanted and harmful content using Spamhaus’s DNS-based blocklists. How Pricing Works: Spamhaus provides its blacklist data and lookup tools for free to most users, as part of their mission to combat spam. Best For: Quickly checking if your domain or IP is on major spam blacklists. 3. MxToolbox You can use MxToolbox to check if your domain is mentioned on any email blocklists. It scans your domain for mail servers, DNS records, web servers, and any problems. While comprehensive in its checks, this domain reputation checker doesn’t provide the same level of integrated deliverability management and analytics that a platform like MoEngage offers. How Pricing Works: MxToolbox offers both free tools and paid subscription plans with more advanced features, with pricing starting from around per month. Best For: Performing a broad check across numerous email blacklists. How to Improve Your Email Domain Reputation So, your domain email reputation doesn’t look as shiny as you’d like? No worries! Here are concrete steps you can take to improve it. Think of it as spring cleaning for your email sending practices. 1. Manage a Clean Email List Email list management is foundational. Regularly prune inactive subscribers, remove bounced addresses, and promptly honor unsubscribe requests. Implement a double opt-in process to ensure subscribers genuinely want to hear from you. A clean, engaged email list signals to mailbox providers that you’re sending to interested recipients, and reduces bounce rates and spam complaints. It’s crucial for a positive email sender reputation score. 2. Send Confirmation Emails with Double Opt-Ins Include double opt-ins where you send automated confirmation emails to subscribers. This helps you distinguish valid email addresses from nonexistent ones. Basically, protecting your email sender reputation is easy when you adhere to best practices. Ensuring that your email messages are engaging and interesting helps you get more clicks and open rates. Attracting more interaction to your email messages sends a signal to mailbox providers that you have a legitimate and professional organization. Increasing the positive activities and reviews will help build and solidify your branding strategy, sending a message that is relatable and understood by your subscribers. 3. Pause Violating Campaigns Notice a sudden spike in bounces or spam complaints after a particular email marketing campaign? Pause the campaign immediately to investigate the cause. Ideally, you should not send transactional and non-transactional emails from the same domain. If the compliance requirements are met, there is no need to pause transactional emails. However, you should pause all one-time emails. Continuing to send problematic emails will only further damage your email sending reputation. Addressing the issue swiftly demonstrates responsibility to mailbox providers. 4. Correct the Mistakes Once you’ve paused a problematic campaign, take the time to understand what went wrong. Did you use a purchased list? Was the content or subject line misleading?. Identify the root cause and implement corrective measures so it doesn’t happen again. Showing that you learn from your mistakes helps rebuild trust with mailbox providers over time. Then, raise a ticket to Gmail or other ESP explaining the cause behind the reputation issues, your changes, and the next steps you plan to follow. Have checkpoints to detect issues immediately, so you can always stay on top of them. 5. Use Subdomains for Sending Emails Establish a subdomain you’re going to use only for sending emails to customers. That’s because if anything goes wrong, the subdomain will take the hit directly, while mildly affecting your company’s main registered domain. It’s like a backup. Also, hopefully, your customers will remember and recognize your subdomain with time. So even if your emails do land in the spam folder, customers might mark them as ‘Not spam’. Yay! 6. Resume and Ramp Up Your Email Frequency After addressing the issues and making necessary changes, don’t be afraid to resume sending. But take baby steps. Resume your transactional emails first. Don’t send transactional and promotional emails from the same domains and IPs. If you already have, separate them while correcting your email setup. Next, resume your personalized event-triggered campaigns. Then, slowly send one-time campaigns to email openers and clickers. Send at a lower RPM and send only 2-3 campaigns per week. After the email domain reputation improves, gradually increase the overall sending frequency and volume. When emailing non-engaged customers, slowly raise your email frequency to prevent sudden volume spikes from triggering spam filters. This careful approach communicates to mailbox providers that you are a responsible sender. 7. Customize Your Sending Patterns Avoid sending all your emails at the same time to everyone on your list. Segment your audience and tailor your sending schedules based on their engagement and time zones. This shows mailbox providers that you’re sending relevant content to the right customers at the right time, improving engagement and your overall email marketing domain reputation. Create lifecycle campaigns to engage your customers. Use dynamic segments, so inactive customers get dropped off automatically. Implement personalization across every aspect of your email. Maintaining Email Domain Reputation with MoEngage Maintaining a stellar email domain reputation is an ongoing effort, but it doesn’t have to be complicated. Hundreds of B2C brands trust MoEngage to provide the insights and tools they need to monitor deliverability, understand audience engagement, and proactively manage their sending practices. By leveraging the platform’s analytics and segmentation capabilities, our customers can be sure their emails consistently land in the inbox, where they belong. Ready to take control of your email deliverability and build a rock-solid email sender reputation? Explore MoEngage’s comprehensive email marketing solutions. Or better yet, request a demo to see MoEngage’s email solutions in action today. The post How to Check and Fix Your Email Sender Reputation appeared first on MoEngage. #how #check #fix #your #email

WWW.MOENGAGE.COM

How to Check and Fix Your Email Sender Reputation

Reading Time: 8 minutes Sometimes, even the slickest emails can land with a thud in the spam folder. The culprit? Your email sender reputation. Just like a bank checks your credit history before lending you money, mailbox providers (like Gmail, Yahoo, etc.) check your sender reputation before deciding whether to deliver your customer relationship emails to the inbox or banish them to spam. So buckle up, because here, we’re about to unpack everything you need to know about what an email domain reputation is and how to keep yours squeaky clean. Now, you’re probably wondering… What is Email Sender Reputation? Email sender reputation, also known as email domain reputation, is a measure of your brand’s trustworthiness as an email sender. It’s based on factors like your sending history, email engagement, and complaint rates, influencing whether mailbox providers deliver your messages to recipients’ inboxes or junk folders. A solid sender reputation is the golden ticket to inbox placement. Without it, your carefully crafted automated email marketing campaigns might as well be shouting into the void. Mailbox providers are constantly on the lookout for spammers and shady senders, and your reputation is a key indicator of whether you’re one of the good guys. But how do they know that? 5 Factors That Influence Email Marketing Sender Reputation Your email sending reputation isn’t built overnight; it’s a result of consistent behavior and several critical factors. Let’s break down the big five: 1. Quality of Your Email List Building your email list is hard, we know. But honestly, validating it to ensure that all email addresses are real and belong to existing subscribers helps you maintain a positive sender reputation score with mailbox providers. This is why you should use a proper email validation API, as it can help you quickly check if the email addresses are legitimate. Your reputation score can suffer if you’re labeled as a bad email sender, with all the bounces you get from a bad email list. 2. Email Sending History Having an established history with a particular IP address can boost the legitimacy and reputation score of your emails, which means the sender, messages, and recipients are all coming from a legitimate place. Spammers will often change IP addresses and, therefore, cannot establish a long and reputable sending history with IPs. 3. Consistency and Volume of Emails The number of emails you send and your consistency in sending them are also indicators of your legitimacy and reputation. Sending two emails every other week, for example, shows stability and predictability in terms of your sending volume and activities. Mailbox providers and Internet Service Providers (ISPs) also examine your sending patterns and frequency to determine whether you’re still on the right track or have turned to spamming. 4. 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MoEngage goes a step further by offering insights and tools to help you proactively manage and improve your email deliverability, making it easier to spot and address potential reputation issues before they escalate. In fact, you can achieve an inbox placement rate of over 95%! Coming back to the topic, the platform indicates email domain reputation as High, Medium, Low, or Bad. More specifically, it lets you: Filter campaigns based on reputation while exporting their data. See historical trends in your domain reputation. View more information, such as when the reputation information was last updated. Analyze email marketing metrics, like open rates and click-through rates. How an Email Sender Reputation Score Works Your email sender reputation score is a dynamic rating that mailbox providers assign to your sending domain and IP address. This score isn’t a fixed number, but rather, a constantly evolving assessment based on your list quality, sending history, and other factors we’ve discussed above. Higher scores generally mean better inbox placement, while lower scores can lead to the dreaded spam folder. Different mailbox providers have their own algorithms for calculating this score, and the exact formulas are usually kept secret. However, the underlying principles revolve around your sending behavior and recipient engagement. How Can You Do a Domain Reputation Test and How Often Should You Do This? You can run an email domain reputation test using various software tools (we’ll get to some of the best ones in a sec!). These reputation checkers analyze your domain and IP address against known blacklists and provide insights into your current standing. Ideally, you should be monitoring your key metrics within your ESP regularly (daily or weekly) and perform a more comprehensive domain reputation test at least monthly, or more frequently if you’re experiencing deliverability issues. Consistent monitoring helps you catch problems early and maintain a healthy reputation. 3 Best Email Domain Reputation Checkers Alright, let’s talk tools. While your ESP often provides built-in deliverability insights, these external domain reputation checkers can offer another layer of perspective. Let’s jump right in! 1. MoEngage Okay, we might be a little biased, but hear us out. MoEngage is more than just an email marketing platform; it’s a powerhouse for cross-channel customer engagement. Its robust analytics and deliverability features give you a clear view of your email performance, helping you proactively manage your email sender reputation. MoEngage stands out because it integrates domain reputation monitoring with tools to improve engagement and personalize your campaigns, leading to better deliverability in the long run. Unlike some standalone domain reputation checkers, MoEngage provides actionable insights within your workflow. How Pricing Works: MoEngage offers customized pricing plans based on your specific needs and scale. Contact the sales team for a personalized quote. Best For: Brands looking for an integrated customer engagement platform (CEP) with robust email deliverability management capabilities. 2. Spamhaus Project The Spamhaus Project allows you to track spam, malware, phishing, and other cybersecurity threats. ISPs and email servers filter out unwanted and harmful content using Spamhaus’s DNS-based blocklists (DNSBLs). How Pricing Works: Spamhaus provides its blacklist data and lookup tools for free to most users, as part of their mission to combat spam. Best For: Quickly checking if your domain or IP is on major spam blacklists. 3. MxToolbox You can use MxToolbox to check if your domain is mentioned on any email blocklists. It scans your domain for mail servers, DNS records, web servers, and any problems. While comprehensive in its checks, this domain reputation checker doesn’t provide the same level of integrated deliverability management and analytics that a platform like MoEngage offers. How Pricing Works: MxToolbox offers both free tools and paid subscription plans with more advanced features, with pricing starting from around $85 per month. Best For: Performing a broad check across numerous email blacklists. How to Improve Your Email Domain Reputation So, your domain email reputation doesn’t look as shiny as you’d like? No worries! Here are concrete steps you can take to improve it. Think of it as spring cleaning for your email sending practices. 1. Manage a Clean Email List Email list management is foundational. Regularly prune inactive subscribers, remove bounced addresses, and promptly honor unsubscribe requests. Implement a double opt-in process to ensure subscribers genuinely want to hear from you. A clean, engaged email list signals to mailbox providers that you’re sending to interested recipients, and reduces bounce rates and spam complaints. It’s crucial for a positive email sender reputation score. 2. Send Confirmation Emails with Double Opt-Ins Include double opt-ins where you send automated confirmation emails to subscribers. This helps you distinguish valid email addresses from nonexistent ones. Basically, protecting your email sender reputation is easy when you adhere to best practices. Ensuring that your email messages are engaging and interesting helps you get more clicks and open rates. Attracting more interaction to your email messages sends a signal to mailbox providers that you have a legitimate and professional organization. Increasing the positive activities and reviews will help build and solidify your branding strategy, sending a message that is relatable and understood by your subscribers. 3. Pause Violating Campaigns Notice a sudden spike in bounces or spam complaints after a particular email marketing campaign? Pause the campaign immediately to investigate the cause. Ideally, you should not send transactional and non-transactional emails from the same domain (domain/IP set). If the compliance requirements are met, there is no need to pause transactional emails. However, you should pause all one-time emails. Continuing to send problematic emails will only further damage your email sending reputation. Addressing the issue swiftly demonstrates responsibility to mailbox providers. 4. Correct the Mistakes Once you’ve paused a problematic campaign, take the time to understand what went wrong. Did you use a purchased list? Was the content or subject line misleading? (In which case, you need to have a list of the best email subject lines handy). Identify the root cause and implement corrective measures so it doesn’t happen again. Showing that you learn from your mistakes helps rebuild trust with mailbox providers over time. Then, raise a ticket to Gmail or other ESP explaining the cause behind the reputation issues, your changes, and the next steps you plan to follow. Have checkpoints to detect issues immediately, so you can always stay on top of them. 5. Use Subdomains for Sending Emails Establish a subdomain you’re going to use only for sending emails to customers. That’s because if anything goes wrong, the subdomain will take the hit directly, while mildly affecting your company’s main registered domain. It’s like a backup. Also, hopefully, your customers will remember and recognize your subdomain with time. So even if your emails do land in the spam folder, customers might mark them as ‘Not spam’. Yay! 6. Resume and Ramp Up Your Email Frequency After addressing the issues and making necessary changes, don’t be afraid to resume sending. But take baby steps. Resume your transactional emails first. Don’t send transactional and promotional emails from the same domains and IPs. If you already have, separate them while correcting your email setup. Next, resume your personalized event-triggered campaigns. Then, slowly send one-time campaigns to email openers and clickers (such as emails that have been opened 5 times in the last 60 days). Send at a lower RPM and send only 2-3 campaigns per week. After the email domain reputation improves, gradually increase the overall sending frequency and volume (it could take 6-8 weeks). When emailing non-engaged customers, slowly raise your email frequency to prevent sudden volume spikes from triggering spam filters. This careful approach communicates to mailbox providers that you are a responsible sender. 7. Customize Your Sending Patterns Avoid sending all your emails at the same time to everyone on your list. Segment your audience and tailor your sending schedules based on their engagement and time zones. This shows mailbox providers that you’re sending relevant content to the right customers at the right time, improving engagement and your overall email marketing domain reputation. Create lifecycle campaigns to engage your customers. Use dynamic segments, so inactive customers get dropped off automatically. Implement personalization across every aspect of your email. Maintaining Email Domain Reputation with MoEngage Maintaining a stellar email domain reputation is an ongoing effort, but it doesn’t have to be complicated. Hundreds of B2C brands trust MoEngage to provide the insights and tools they need to monitor deliverability, understand audience engagement, and proactively manage their sending practices. By leveraging the platform’s analytics and segmentation capabilities, our customers can be sure their emails consistently land in the inbox, where they belong. Ready to take control of your email deliverability and build a rock-solid email sender reputation? Explore MoEngage’s comprehensive email marketing solutions. Or better yet, request a demo to see MoEngage’s email solutions in action today. The post How to Check and Fix Your Email Sender Reputation appeared first on MoEngage.

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2025-05-30 14:48:49 ·

Dynasty Warriors producer says the series still can’t be called a success in the West

Xando
Member

Oct 28, 2017

37,943

In an interview with GamesMarkt, Omega Forcedirector and producer Tomohiko Sho – who produced this year's Dynasty Warriors: Origins – was asked how successful the series is in the West, given that most of the Steam user reviews for the game are written in Chinese.

Sho replied that, in his view, Dynasty Warriors is not yet a successful series in the West, but that it's possible for this to change in the future.

"I believe that the 'Dynasty Warriors' series is not yet in a position to be called a success in the West," Sho said. "On the contrary, I believe that there is a great potential for the series to gain many fans in the future.

"With our latest title, Dynasty Warriors: Origins, we were able to attract new fans in addition to those we have had since the PlayStation 2 era. The Western market is very important, and I believe that if there is a next title, we will gain even more new fans."
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Dynasty Warriors producer says the series still can’t be called a success in the West | VGC

The latest game, Dynasty Warriors: Origins, has sold more than 1 million copies worldwide…

www.videogameschronicle.com

Origins was the first game in the series i played and i absolutely loved it so i hope it can continue to grow in the west.

--R
Being sued right now, please help me find a lawyer
Member

Oct 25, 2017

15,658

Origins is a must play for everyone that likes action games. A masterpiece from beginning to end.

PlanetSmasher
The Abominable Showman
Member

Oct 25, 2017

133,345

I think he's being modest more than anything else. This is less "the series is a failure" and more "I think we can do even better".

Glio
Member

Oct 27, 2017

27,882

Spain

I honestly think what limits the franchise most in the West today is the setting of Three Kingdoms, not the gameplay.

It's a fascinating historical period, but I don't think it'll be very popular here.

Dekuman
Member

Oct 27, 2017

21,144

Glio said:

I honestly think what limits the franchise most in the West today is the setting of Three Kingdoms, not the gameplay.

It's a fascinating historical period, but I don't think it'll be very popular here.
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it's why spin offs of the formula like Hyrule Warriors do considerably better.

Richietto
One Winged Slayer
Member

Oct 25, 2017

26,133

North Carolina

Glio said:

I honestly think what limits the franchise most in the West today is the setting of Three Kingdoms, not the gameplay.

It's a fascinating historical period, but I don't think it'll be very popular here.
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Unfortunately this. Obviously it did really well on Steam and what not but there's a reason Hyrule Warrios can do so damn well on a single platform. It's the setting.

fiendcode
Member

Oct 26, 2017

26,412

We saw this from the CCUs tbh, overwhelmingly tilted towards Asia.

LAA
One Winged Slayer
Member

Oct 28, 2017

3,264

Origins I haven't tried, more tempted seeing impressions here, but I read Steph Sterling's review on it and they weren't happy with realism essentially removing personality from it. I think the other thing that puts me off is they just seem very heavy handed with DLC too, and seemingly for pretty basic things, I want as complete of a game as possible.

Really I'm kinda surprised they haven't done more collabs with more IPs. I think Hyrule Warriors was really the first I truly played and loved. Other collabs since I've enjoyed too like P5 Strikers. Berserker was fine. AOT I enjoyed too and that's actually very different from the others. I'd love a KH Musou eventually.. so many characters and abilities they could use, and enemies are pretty simplistically designed, and there's already been moments where you had to kill 1000+ Heartless, seems a perfect fit, ha.

PlanetSmasher
The Abominable Showman
Member

Oct 25, 2017

133,345

Dekuman said:

it's why spin offs of the formula like Hyrule Warriors do considerably better.

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Do they really do that much better?

OP

OP

Xando
Member

Oct 28, 2017

37,943

Glio said:

I honestly think what limits the franchise most in the West today is the setting of Three Kingdoms, not the gameplay.

It's a fascinating historical period, but I don't think it'll be very popular here.
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You're probably right but for me the three kingdoms setting made it even more interesting.

Don't think a medieval europe or a more western fantasy approach would catch me in the same way.

Disco Stu
Member

Oct 27, 2017

2,557

Glio said:

I honestly think what limits the franchise most in the West today is the setting of Three Kingdoms, not the gameplay.

It's a fascinating historical period, but I don't think it'll be very popular here.
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Totally agree and this is coming from someone seeks out other Three Kingdoms content because of KOEI.

Someone the other day mentioned using the engine for an Avengers or Superman style game. I could see that catching on if done right.

Glio
Member

Oct 27, 2017

27,882

Spain

PlanetSmasher said:

Do they really do that much better?

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Not all of them, but some, yes.

Age of Calamity is the best selling musou at 4M.

Rosebud
Two Pieces
Member

Apr 16, 2018

51,357

I want Origins but still too pricey unfortunately. I love Samurai Warriors, Pirate Warriors, Persona 5 Strikers...

TheAggroCraig
This guy are sick of the One Winged Slayer
Member

Nov 6, 2017

7,354

I'll show up for the franchise again when they bring back Dynasty Warriors Gundam

Dekuman
Member

Oct 27, 2017

21,144

PlanetSmasher said:

Do they really do that much better?

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Here's what i can find from the Nintendo million seller list
Hyrule Warriors - Age of Calamity 4+ million units as of March 2021

MetalKhaos
Member

Oct 31, 2017

2,228

PlanetSmasher said:

I think he's being modest more than anything else. This is less "the series is a failure" and more "I think we can do even better".

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That's my take.

Origins was first DW game I enjoyed in a really long time. Solid entry, and I feel a game like this is made all the better with this current gen due to how incredibly fast the loading times are.

SlasherMcGirk
Member

Oct 27, 2017

4,429

Cincinnati

Glio said:

I honestly think what limits the franchise most in the West today is the setting of Three Kingdoms, not the gameplay.

It's a fascinating historical period, but I don't think it'll be very popular here.
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It's not even that I think its the fact that they have done the same setting and characters 20 times over. It's an interesting period and story with great characters but you can only add and stretch the same story so many times without diminishing returns.

PlanetSmasher
The Abominable Showman
Member

Oct 25, 2017

133,345

SlasherMcGirk said:

It's not even that I think its the fact that they have done the same setting and characters 20 times over. It's an interesting period and story with great characters but you can only add and stretch the same story so many times without diminishing returns.

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I think the other problem is there aren't that many periods of time across history that can support this kind of game structure with such a heavy emphasis on specific heroes. Like, they tried Troy once and it didn't really catch on, nor did Bladestorm.

For better and for worse, the Three Kingdoms and Sengoku eras are kind of the time periods that have A) a level of ubiquity in Asia that makes East Asian players interested in them and B) an emphasis on character substantial enough to support the Musou gameplay format.

By comparison, I don't think a Musou game based onthe American Revolution would sell particularly well outside of the US, and that war was A) not that long and B) took place in an era where firearms had largely supplanted melee combat so the movesets would wind up feeling very samey.

Ltn_Esteves
Member

Feb 4, 2021

213

Dekuman said:

Here's what i can find from the Nintendo million seller list

Hyrule Warriors - Age of Calamity 4+ million units as of March 2021
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And I think that is without japan sales, since Nintendo is only the publisher in the west

Astral
Member

Oct 27, 2017

33,463

TheAggroCraig said:

I'll show up for the franchise again when they bring back Dynasty Warriors Gundam

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Man I would love this. Did they stop for licensing reasons or something?

Origins was amazing and I can't wait for what's next.

PlanetSmasher
The Abominable Showman
Member

Oct 25, 2017

133,345

Astral said:

Man I would love this. Did they stop for licensing reasons or something?

Origins was amazing and I can't wait for what's next.
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They stopped because the third game sold almost no copies. People got sick of the concept after the second game.

Glio
Member

Oct 27, 2017

27,882

Spain

PlanetSmasher said:

I think the other problem is there aren't that many periods of time across history that can support this kind of game structure with such a heavy emphasis on specific heroes. Like, they tried Troy once and it didn't really catch on, nor did Bladestorm.

For better and for worse, the Three Kingdoms and Sengoku eras are kind of the time periods that have A) a level of ubiquity in Asia that makes East Asian players interested in them and B) an emphasis on character substantial enough to support the Musou gameplay format.

By comparison, I don't think a Musou game based onthe American Revolution would sell particularly well outside of the US, and that war was A) not that long and B) took place in an era where firearms had largely supplanted melee combat so the movesets would wind up feeling very samey.
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It doesn't really need to be historical. There are One Piece, Zelda, Dragon Quest, Gundam... They could do something sci-fi or fantasy with their own setting and characters if they want. But, hey, if they like three kingdoms, they don't need to change it, but it's going to be very hard to grow in the West.

Dreamboum
Member

Oct 28, 2017

23,942

How are they gonna find an audience in the west when the game is 80 *euros* on all platforms? Their biggest discount is 64 euros.

Come on man

MarvelousIntent
Member

Aug 13, 2019

3,936

LAA said:

Origins I haven't tried, more tempted seeing impressions here, but I read Steph Sterling's review on it and they weren't happy with realism essentially removing personality from it. I think the other thing that puts me off is they just seem very heavy handed with DLC too, and seemingly for pretty basic things, I want as complete of a game as possible.

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I'd recommend watching some gameplay to see how you feel about it. I understand Steph's gripes with Origins, but it is legitimately the best game in the series and it isn't even close. Like, the combat is actually good. Enemy officers actually put up a fight. Lu Bu is an actual boss fight and hard as hell to beat.

Origins three greatest faults are where it chooses to end, the silent protagonist you can't customize, and that there are only like 9 weapons. The weapons issue also isn't that bad because each weapon has functions different and has plenty of abilities to choose from. It feels fantastic to play and blows every other game out of the water.

Also, as far as I'm aware, Origins doesn't really have DLC. It had some pre-order bonuses, but thats it. As it is, the game is complete.

PlanetSmasher
The Abominable Showman
Member

Oct 25, 2017

133,345

Glio said:

It doesn't really need to be historical. There are One Piece, Zelda, Dragon Quest, Gundam... They could do something sci-fi or fantasy with their own setting and characters if they want. But, hey, if they like three kingdoms, they don't need to change it, but it's going to be very hard to grow in the West.

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I don't think a bunch of anime Musou spinoffs are going to grow the franchise in the West. They've been doing anime spinoffs for 20 years and they just sell to people who are already Musou fans who happen to like that particular anime. It's a concept that only works on fanbase overlap.

And I don't think an original setting is going to interest people who aren't already fans either.

General Tso
Member

Jan 10, 2018

540

Dynasty Warriors Origins was an excellent refresh, and I hope they continue to build off it, because the fundamentals are all there.

DontHateTheBacon
Unshakable Resolve
Member

Oct 27, 2017

14,618

It was my first Dynasty Warriors game and I had a complete blast with it. I'm in if this is what they'll be like going forward. I hope the dust settles well for it in the west.

Dale Copper
Member

Apr 12, 2018

24,363

Glio said:

Not all of them, but some, yes.

Age of Calamity is the best selling musou at 4M.
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One Piece Pirate Warriors 4 is also at 4 million sales.

Spinoffs are more popular if they push them.

thewienke
Member

Oct 25, 2017

19,345

"If there is a next game"

I hope they're being deliberately evasive there considering Origins ends half way through the story

Although I do think the story is more interesting before the Three Kingdoms are established since there are more players and more going on

Pyro
God help us the mods are making weekend threads
Member

Jul 30, 2018

18,900

United States

Glio said:

I honestly think what limits the franchise most in the West today is the setting of Three Kingdoms, not the gameplay.

It's a fascinating historical period, but I don't think it'll be very popular here.
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This is definitely part of it. I'm more into Samurai Warriors because the setting is more interesting to me.

LiquidDom
Avenger

Oct 27, 2017

2,729

I bought Origins on day one but have so much else on my plate. I'd like to get to it soon, might be a good palette cleanser after Death Stranding 2

OP

OP

Xando
Member

Oct 28, 2017

37,943

Dreamboum said:

How are they gonna find an audience in the west when the game is 80 *euros* on all platforms? Their biggest discount is 64 euros.

Come on man
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I bought a key for like 43€ a few months ago so you can definitely get it cheaper if you're looking for it.

Kyrios
Member

Oct 27, 2017

19,152

--R said:

Origins is a must play for everyone that likes action games. A masterpiece from beginning to end.

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Yup, still a frontrunner for my personal GOTY.

OP

OP

Xando
Member

Oct 28, 2017

37,943

Only thing i wished they would improve on really would be that the MC has more of a personality

DyCy
Member

Oct 25, 2017

587

I loved Origins as my first real DWbut as interesting as it was for a first timer I do wonder how much I'd want to revisit the Three Kingdoms story over and over again in sequels so I do think the setting is limiting the potential of the franchise.

Would love a spin off based on Star Wars, Marvel or Final Fantasy though.

Astral
Member

Oct 27, 2017

33,463

PlanetSmasher said:

They stopped because the third game sold almost no copies. People got sick of the concept after the second game.

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Aw damn. I honestly didn't even know there was a third one. I think they have the potential of making a really good one with the current formula.

Glio
Member

Oct 27, 2017

27,882

Spain

PlanetSmasher said:

I don't think a bunch of anime Musou spinoffs are going to grow the franchise in the West. They've been doing anime spinoffs for 20 years and they just sell to people who are already Musou fans who happen to like that particular anime. It's a concept that only works on fanbase overlap.

And I don't think an original setting is going to interest people who aren't already fans either.
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I'm going to be cynical because it's an idea that doesn't appeal to me personally, but I'm pretty sure if they made a dark fantasy setting with fallen knights, ruined kingdoms and cursed battlefields; and marketed it as "the Dark Souls of musou," it would sell.

And I feel almost dirty just proposing it.

PlanetSmasher
The Abominable Showman
Member

Oct 25, 2017

133,345

Glio said:

I'm going to be cynical because it's an idea that doesn't appeal to me personally, but I'm pretty sure if they made a dark fantasy setting with fallen knights, ruined kingdoms and cursed battlefields; and marketed it as "the Dark Souls of musou," it would sell.

And I feel almost dirty just proposing it.
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I don't...really think it would work? Like the entire fantasy of Musou is "being an unstoppable killing machine", trying to focus it around super-hardcore grimdark difficulty would kind of defeat the purpose of it being Musou at all.

Dark fantasy doesn't just succeed by default, and I don't think audiences would be tricked by that either. The Berserk musou flopped catastrophically badly.

MaxAugust
Member

Jan 28, 2018

3,573

thewienke said:

"If there is a next game"

I hope they're being deliberately evasive there considering Origins ends half way through the story

Although I do think the story is more interesting before the Three Kingdoms are established since there are more players and more going on
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The secret is everyone throughout time has felt that the pre-Three Kingdoms phase of the Three Kingdoms is the interesting part. Pretty much every adaptation stalls out a bit after things solidify. Hard to make the decades long stalemate and then abrupt anticlimacticdenouement satisfying as a conventional narrative.

#dynasty #warriors #producer #says #series

Dynasty Warriors producer says the series still can’t be called a success in the West
Xando Member Oct 28, 2017 37,943 In an interview with GamesMarkt, Omega Forcedirector and producer Tomohiko Sho – who produced this year's Dynasty Warriors: Origins – was asked how successful the series is in the West, given that most of the Steam user reviews for the game are written in Chinese. Sho replied that, in his view, Dynasty Warriors is not yet a successful series in the West, but that it's possible for this to change in the future. "I believe that the 'Dynasty Warriors' series is not yet in a position to be called a success in the West," Sho said. "On the contrary, I believe that there is a great potential for the series to gain many fans in the future. "With our latest title, Dynasty Warriors: Origins, we were able to attract new fans in addition to those we have had since the PlayStation 2 era. The Western market is very important, and I believe that if there is a next title, we will gain even more new fans." Click to expand... Click to shrink... Dynasty Warriors producer says the series still can’t be called a success in the West | VGC The latest game, Dynasty Warriors: Origins, has sold more than 1 million copies worldwide… www.videogameschronicle.com Origins was the first game in the series i played and i absolutely loved it so i hope it can continue to grow in the west. --R Being sued right now, please help me find a lawyer Member Oct 25, 2017 15,658 Origins is a must play for everyone that likes action games. A masterpiece from beginning to end. PlanetSmasher The Abominable Showman Member Oct 25, 2017 133,345 I think he's being modest more than anything else. This is less "the series is a failure" and more "I think we can do even better". Glio Member Oct 27, 2017 27,882 Spain I honestly think what limits the franchise most in the West today is the setting of Three Kingdoms, not the gameplay. It's a fascinating historical period, but I don't think it'll be very popular here. Dekuman Member Oct 27, 2017 21,144 Glio said: I honestly think what limits the franchise most in the West today is the setting of Three Kingdoms, not the gameplay. It's a fascinating historical period, but I don't think it'll be very popular here. Click to expand... Click to shrink... it's why spin offs of the formula like Hyrule Warriors do considerably better. Richietto One Winged Slayer Member Oct 25, 2017 26,133 North Carolina Glio said: I honestly think what limits the franchise most in the West today is the setting of Three Kingdoms, not the gameplay. It's a fascinating historical period, but I don't think it'll be very popular here. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Unfortunately this. Obviously it did really well on Steam and what not but there's a reason Hyrule Warrios can do so damn well on a single platform. It's the setting. fiendcode Member Oct 26, 2017 26,412 We saw this from the CCUs tbh, overwhelmingly tilted towards Asia. LAA One Winged Slayer Member Oct 28, 2017 3,264 Origins I haven't tried, more tempted seeing impressions here, but I read Steph Sterling's review on it and they weren't happy with realism essentially removing personality from it. I think the other thing that puts me off is they just seem very heavy handed with DLC too, and seemingly for pretty basic things, I want as complete of a game as possible. Really I'm kinda surprised they haven't done more collabs with more IPs. I think Hyrule Warriors was really the first I truly played and loved. Other collabs since I've enjoyed too like P5 Strikers. Berserker was fine. AOT I enjoyed too and that's actually very different from the others. I'd love a KH Musou eventually.. so many characters and abilities they could use, and enemies are pretty simplistically designed, and there's already been moments where you had to kill 1000+ Heartless, seems a perfect fit, ha. PlanetSmasher The Abominable Showman Member Oct 25, 2017 133,345 Dekuman said: it's why spin offs of the formula like Hyrule Warriors do considerably better. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Do they really do that much better? OP OP Xando Member Oct 28, 2017 37,943 Glio said: I honestly think what limits the franchise most in the West today is the setting of Three Kingdoms, not the gameplay. It's a fascinating historical period, but I don't think it'll be very popular here. Click to expand... Click to shrink... You're probably right but for me the three kingdoms setting made it even more interesting. Don't think a medieval europe or a more western fantasy approach would catch me in the same way. Disco Stu Member Oct 27, 2017 2,557 Glio said: I honestly think what limits the franchise most in the West today is the setting of Three Kingdoms, not the gameplay. It's a fascinating historical period, but I don't think it'll be very popular here. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Totally agree and this is coming from someone seeks out other Three Kingdoms content because of KOEI. Someone the other day mentioned using the engine for an Avengers or Superman style game. I could see that catching on if done right. Glio Member Oct 27, 2017 27,882 Spain PlanetSmasher said: Do they really do that much better? Click to expand... Click to shrink... Not all of them, but some, yes. Age of Calamity is the best selling musou at 4M. Rosebud Two Pieces Member Apr 16, 2018 51,357 I want Origins but still too pricey unfortunately. I love Samurai Warriors, Pirate Warriors, Persona 5 Strikers... TheAggroCraig This guy are sick of the One Winged Slayer Member Nov 6, 2017 7,354 I'll show up for the franchise again when they bring back Dynasty Warriors Gundam Dekuman Member Oct 27, 2017 21,144 PlanetSmasher said: Do they really do that much better? Click to expand... Click to shrink... Here's what i can find from the Nintendo million seller list Hyrule Warriors - Age of Calamity 4+ million units as of March 2021 MetalKhaos Member Oct 31, 2017 2,228 PlanetSmasher said: I think he's being modest more than anything else. This is less "the series is a failure" and more "I think we can do even better". Click to expand... Click to shrink... That's my take. Origins was first DW game I enjoyed in a really long time. Solid entry, and I feel a game like this is made all the better with this current gen due to how incredibly fast the loading times are. SlasherMcGirk Member Oct 27, 2017 4,429 Cincinnati Glio said: I honestly think what limits the franchise most in the West today is the setting of Three Kingdoms, not the gameplay. It's a fascinating historical period, but I don't think it'll be very popular here. Click to expand... Click to shrink... It's not even that I think its the fact that they have done the same setting and characters 20 times over. It's an interesting period and story with great characters but you can only add and stretch the same story so many times without diminishing returns. PlanetSmasher The Abominable Showman Member Oct 25, 2017 133,345 SlasherMcGirk said: It's not even that I think its the fact that they have done the same setting and characters 20 times over. It's an interesting period and story with great characters but you can only add and stretch the same story so many times without diminishing returns. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I think the other problem is there aren't that many periods of time across history that can support this kind of game structure with such a heavy emphasis on specific heroes. Like, they tried Troy once and it didn't really catch on, nor did Bladestorm. For better and for worse, the Three Kingdoms and Sengoku eras are kind of the time periods that have A) a level of ubiquity in Asia that makes East Asian players interested in them and B) an emphasis on character substantial enough to support the Musou gameplay format. By comparison, I don't think a Musou game based onthe American Revolution would sell particularly well outside of the US, and that war was A) not that long and B) took place in an era where firearms had largely supplanted melee combat so the movesets would wind up feeling very samey. Ltn_Esteves Member Feb 4, 2021 213 Dekuman said: Here's what i can find from the Nintendo million seller list Hyrule Warriors - Age of Calamity 4+ million units as of March 2021 Click to expand... Click to shrink... And I think that is without japan sales, since Nintendo is only the publisher in the west Astral Member Oct 27, 2017 33,463 TheAggroCraig said: I'll show up for the franchise again when they bring back Dynasty Warriors Gundam Click to expand... Click to shrink... Man I would love this. Did they stop for licensing reasons or something? Origins was amazing and I can't wait for what's next. PlanetSmasher The Abominable Showman Member Oct 25, 2017 133,345 Astral said: Man I would love this. Did they stop for licensing reasons or something? Origins was amazing and I can't wait for what's next. Click to expand... Click to shrink... They stopped because the third game sold almost no copies. People got sick of the concept after the second game. Glio Member Oct 27, 2017 27,882 Spain PlanetSmasher said: I think the other problem is there aren't that many periods of time across history that can support this kind of game structure with such a heavy emphasis on specific heroes. Like, they tried Troy once and it didn't really catch on, nor did Bladestorm. For better and for worse, the Three Kingdoms and Sengoku eras are kind of the time periods that have A) a level of ubiquity in Asia that makes East Asian players interested in them and B) an emphasis on character substantial enough to support the Musou gameplay format. By comparison, I don't think a Musou game based onthe American Revolution would sell particularly well outside of the US, and that war was A) not that long and B) took place in an era where firearms had largely supplanted melee combat so the movesets would wind up feeling very samey. Click to expand... Click to shrink... It doesn't really need to be historical. There are One Piece, Zelda, Dragon Quest, Gundam... They could do something sci-fi or fantasy with their own setting and characters if they want. But, hey, if they like three kingdoms, they don't need to change it, but it's going to be very hard to grow in the West. Dreamboum Member Oct 28, 2017 23,942 How are they gonna find an audience in the west when the game is 80 *euros* on all platforms? Their biggest discount is 64 euros. Come on man MarvelousIntent Member Aug 13, 2019 3,936 LAA said: Origins I haven't tried, more tempted seeing impressions here, but I read Steph Sterling's review on it and they weren't happy with realism essentially removing personality from it. I think the other thing that puts me off is they just seem very heavy handed with DLC too, and seemingly for pretty basic things, I want as complete of a game as possible. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I'd recommend watching some gameplay to see how you feel about it. I understand Steph's gripes with Origins, but it is legitimately the best game in the series and it isn't even close. Like, the combat is actually good. Enemy officers actually put up a fight. Lu Bu is an actual boss fight and hard as hell to beat. Origins three greatest faults are where it chooses to end, the silent protagonist you can't customize, and that there are only like 9 weapons. The weapons issue also isn't that bad because each weapon has functions different and has plenty of abilities to choose from. It feels fantastic to play and blows every other game out of the water. Also, as far as I'm aware, Origins doesn't really have DLC. It had some pre-order bonuses, but thats it. As it is, the game is complete. PlanetSmasher The Abominable Showman Member Oct 25, 2017 133,345 Glio said: It doesn't really need to be historical. There are One Piece, Zelda, Dragon Quest, Gundam... They could do something sci-fi or fantasy with their own setting and characters if they want. But, hey, if they like three kingdoms, they don't need to change it, but it's going to be very hard to grow in the West. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I don't think a bunch of anime Musou spinoffs are going to grow the franchise in the West. They've been doing anime spinoffs for 20 years and they just sell to people who are already Musou fans who happen to like that particular anime. It's a concept that only works on fanbase overlap. And I don't think an original setting is going to interest people who aren't already fans either. General Tso Member Jan 10, 2018 540 Dynasty Warriors Origins was an excellent refresh, and I hope they continue to build off it, because the fundamentals are all there. DontHateTheBacon Unshakable Resolve Member Oct 27, 2017 14,618 It was my first Dynasty Warriors game and I had a complete blast with it. I'm in if this is what they'll be like going forward. I hope the dust settles well for it in the west. Dale Copper Member Apr 12, 2018 24,363 Glio said: Not all of them, but some, yes. Age of Calamity is the best selling musou at 4M. Click to expand... Click to shrink... One Piece Pirate Warriors 4 is also at 4 million sales. Spinoffs are more popular if they push them. thewienke Member Oct 25, 2017 19,345 "If there is a next game" I hope they're being deliberately evasive there considering Origins ends half way through the story Although I do think the story is more interesting before the Three Kingdoms are established since there are more players and more going on Pyro God help us the mods are making weekend threads Member Jul 30, 2018 18,900 United States Glio said: I honestly think what limits the franchise most in the West today is the setting of Three Kingdoms, not the gameplay. It's a fascinating historical period, but I don't think it'll be very popular here. Click to expand... Click to shrink... This is definitely part of it. I'm more into Samurai Warriors because the setting is more interesting to me. LiquidDom Avenger Oct 27, 2017 2,729 I bought Origins on day one but have so much else on my plate. I'd like to get to it soon, might be a good palette cleanser after Death Stranding 2 OP OP Xando Member Oct 28, 2017 37,943 Dreamboum said: How are they gonna find an audience in the west when the game is 80 *euros* on all platforms? Their biggest discount is 64 euros. Come on man Click to expand... Click to shrink... I bought a key for like 43€ a few months ago so you can definitely get it cheaper if you're looking for it. Kyrios Member Oct 27, 2017 19,152 --R said: Origins is a must play for everyone that likes action games. A masterpiece from beginning to end. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Yup, still a frontrunner for my personal GOTY. OP OP Xando Member Oct 28, 2017 37,943 Only thing i wished they would improve on really would be that the MC has more of a personality DyCy Member Oct 25, 2017 587 I loved Origins as my first real DWbut as interesting as it was for a first timer I do wonder how much I'd want to revisit the Three Kingdoms story over and over again in sequels so I do think the setting is limiting the potential of the franchise. Would love a spin off based on Star Wars, Marvel or Final Fantasy though. Astral Member Oct 27, 2017 33,463 PlanetSmasher said: They stopped because the third game sold almost no copies. People got sick of the concept after the second game. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Aw damn. I honestly didn't even know there was a third one. I think they have the potential of making a really good one with the current formula. Glio Member Oct 27, 2017 27,882 Spain PlanetSmasher said: I don't think a bunch of anime Musou spinoffs are going to grow the franchise in the West. They've been doing anime spinoffs for 20 years and they just sell to people who are already Musou fans who happen to like that particular anime. It's a concept that only works on fanbase overlap. And I don't think an original setting is going to interest people who aren't already fans either. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I'm going to be cynical because it's an idea that doesn't appeal to me personally, but I'm pretty sure if they made a dark fantasy setting with fallen knights, ruined kingdoms and cursed battlefields; and marketed it as "the Dark Souls of musou," it would sell. And I feel almost dirty just proposing it. PlanetSmasher The Abominable Showman Member Oct 25, 2017 133,345 Glio said: I'm going to be cynical because it's an idea that doesn't appeal to me personally, but I'm pretty sure if they made a dark fantasy setting with fallen knights, ruined kingdoms and cursed battlefields; and marketed it as "the Dark Souls of musou," it would sell. And I feel almost dirty just proposing it. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I don't...really think it would work? Like the entire fantasy of Musou is "being an unstoppable killing machine", trying to focus it around super-hardcore grimdark difficulty would kind of defeat the purpose of it being Musou at all. Dark fantasy doesn't just succeed by default, and I don't think audiences would be tricked by that either. The Berserk musou flopped catastrophically badly. MaxAugust Member Jan 28, 2018 3,573 thewienke said: "If there is a next game" I hope they're being deliberately evasive there considering Origins ends half way through the story Although I do think the story is more interesting before the Three Kingdoms are established since there are more players and more going on Click to expand... Click to shrink... The secret is everyone throughout time has felt that the pre-Three Kingdoms phase of the Three Kingdoms is the interesting part. Pretty much every adaptation stalls out a bit after things solidify. Hard to make the decades long stalemate and then abrupt anticlimacticdenouement satisfying as a conventional narrative. #dynasty #warriors #producer #says #series

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Dynasty Warriors producer says the series still can’t be called a success in the West

Xando Member Oct 28, 2017 37,943 In an interview with GamesMarkt, Omega Forcedirector and producer Tomohiko Sho – who produced this year's Dynasty Warriors: Origins – was asked how successful the series is in the West, given that most of the Steam user reviews for the game are written in Chinese. Sho replied that, in his view, Dynasty Warriors is not yet a successful series in the West, but that it's possible for this to change in the future. "I believe that the 'Dynasty Warriors' series is not yet in a position to be called a success in the West," Sho said. "On the contrary, I believe that there is a great potential for the series to gain many fans in the future. "With our latest title, Dynasty Warriors: Origins, we were able to attract new fans in addition to those we have had since the PlayStation 2 era. The Western market is very important, and I believe that if there is a next title, we will gain even more new fans." Click to expand... Click to shrink... Dynasty Warriors producer says the series still can’t be called a success in the West | VGC The latest game, Dynasty Warriors: Origins, has sold more than 1 million copies worldwide… www.videogameschronicle.com Origins was the first game in the series i played and i absolutely loved it so i hope it can continue to grow in the west. --R Being sued right now, please help me find a lawyer Member Oct 25, 2017 15,658 Origins is a must play for everyone that likes action games. A masterpiece from beginning to end. PlanetSmasher The Abominable Showman Member Oct 25, 2017 133,345 I think he's being modest more than anything else. This is less "the series is a failure" and more "I think we can do even better". Glio Member Oct 27, 2017 27,882 Spain I honestly think what limits the franchise most in the West today is the setting of Three Kingdoms, not the gameplay. It's a fascinating historical period, but I don't think it'll be very popular here. Dekuman Member Oct 27, 2017 21,144 Glio said: I honestly think what limits the franchise most in the West today is the setting of Three Kingdoms, not the gameplay. It's a fascinating historical period, but I don't think it'll be very popular here. Click to expand... Click to shrink... it's why spin offs of the formula like Hyrule Warriors do considerably better. Richietto One Winged Slayer Member Oct 25, 2017 26,133 North Carolina Glio said: I honestly think what limits the franchise most in the West today is the setting of Three Kingdoms, not the gameplay. It's a fascinating historical period, but I don't think it'll be very popular here. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Unfortunately this. Obviously it did really well on Steam and what not but there's a reason Hyrule Warrios can do so damn well on a single platform. It's the setting. fiendcode Member Oct 26, 2017 26,412 We saw this from the CCUs tbh, overwhelmingly tilted towards Asia. LAA One Winged Slayer Member Oct 28, 2017 3,264 Origins I haven't tried, more tempted seeing impressions here, but I read Steph Sterling's review on it and they weren't happy with realism essentially removing personality from it. I think the other thing that puts me off is they just seem very heavy handed with DLC too, and seemingly for pretty basic things, I want as complete of a game as possible. Really I'm kinda surprised they haven't done more collabs with more IPs. I think Hyrule Warriors was really the first I truly played and loved. Other collabs since I've enjoyed too like P5 Strikers. Berserker was fine. AOT I enjoyed too and that's actually very different from the others. I'd love a KH Musou eventually.. so many characters and abilities they could use, and enemies are pretty simplistically designed, and there's already been moments where you had to kill 1000+ Heartless, seems a perfect fit, ha. PlanetSmasher The Abominable Showman Member Oct 25, 2017 133,345 Dekuman said: it's why spin offs of the formula like Hyrule Warriors do considerably better. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Do they really do that much better? OP OP Xando Member Oct 28, 2017 37,943 Glio said: I honestly think what limits the franchise most in the West today is the setting of Three Kingdoms, not the gameplay. It's a fascinating historical period, but I don't think it'll be very popular here. Click to expand... Click to shrink... You're probably right but for me the three kingdoms setting made it even more interesting. Don't think a medieval europe or a more western fantasy approach would catch me in the same way. Disco Stu Member Oct 27, 2017 2,557 Glio said: I honestly think what limits the franchise most in the West today is the setting of Three Kingdoms, not the gameplay. It's a fascinating historical period, but I don't think it'll be very popular here. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Totally agree and this is coming from someone seeks out other Three Kingdoms content because of KOEI. Someone the other day mentioned using the engine for an Avengers or Superman style game. I could see that catching on if done right. Glio Member Oct 27, 2017 27,882 Spain PlanetSmasher said: Do they really do that much better? Click to expand... Click to shrink... Not all of them, but some, yes. Age of Calamity is the best selling musou at 4M. Rosebud Two Pieces Member Apr 16, 2018 51,357 I want Origins but still too pricey unfortunately. I love Samurai Warriors, Pirate Warriors, Persona 5 Strikers... TheAggroCraig This guy are sick of the One Winged Slayer Member Nov 6, 2017 7,354 I'll show up for the franchise again when they bring back Dynasty Warriors Gundam Dekuman Member Oct 27, 2017 21,144 PlanetSmasher said: Do they really do that much better? Click to expand... Click to shrink... Here's what i can find from the Nintendo million seller list Hyrule Warriors - Age of Calamity 4+ million units as of March 2021 MetalKhaos Member Oct 31, 2017 2,228 PlanetSmasher said: I think he's being modest more than anything else. This is less "the series is a failure" and more "I think we can do even better". Click to expand... Click to shrink... That's my take. Origins was first DW game I enjoyed in a really long time. Solid entry, and I feel a game like this is made all the better with this current gen due to how incredibly fast the loading times are. SlasherMcGirk Member Oct 27, 2017 4,429 Cincinnati Glio said: I honestly think what limits the franchise most in the West today is the setting of Three Kingdoms, not the gameplay. It's a fascinating historical period, but I don't think it'll be very popular here. Click to expand... Click to shrink... It's not even that I think its the fact that they have done the same setting and characters 20 times over. It's an interesting period and story with great characters but you can only add and stretch the same story so many times without diminishing returns. PlanetSmasher The Abominable Showman Member Oct 25, 2017 133,345 SlasherMcGirk said: It's not even that I think its the fact that they have done the same setting and characters 20 times over. It's an interesting period and story with great characters but you can only add and stretch the same story so many times without diminishing returns. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I think the other problem is there aren't that many periods of time across history that can support this kind of game structure with such a heavy emphasis on specific heroes. Like, they tried Troy once and it didn't really catch on, nor did Bladestorm. For better and for worse, the Three Kingdoms and Sengoku eras are kind of the time periods that have A) a level of ubiquity in Asia that makes East Asian players interested in them and B) an emphasis on character substantial enough to support the Musou gameplay format. By comparison, I don't think a Musou game based on (for example) the American Revolution would sell particularly well outside of the US, and that war was A) not that long and B) took place in an era where firearms had largely supplanted melee combat so the movesets would wind up feeling very samey. Ltn_Esteves Member Feb 4, 2021 213 Dekuman said: Here's what i can find from the Nintendo million seller list Hyrule Warriors - Age of Calamity 4+ million units as of March 2021 Click to expand... Click to shrink... And I think that is without japan sales, since Nintendo is only the publisher in the west Astral Member Oct 27, 2017 33,463 TheAggroCraig said: I'll show up for the franchise again when they bring back Dynasty Warriors Gundam Click to expand... Click to shrink... Man I would love this. Did they stop for licensing reasons or something? Origins was amazing and I can't wait for what's next. PlanetSmasher The Abominable Showman Member Oct 25, 2017 133,345 Astral said: Man I would love this. Did they stop for licensing reasons or something? Origins was amazing and I can't wait for what's next. Click to expand... Click to shrink... They stopped because the third game sold almost no copies. People got sick of the concept after the second game. Glio Member Oct 27, 2017 27,882 Spain PlanetSmasher said: I think the other problem is there aren't that many periods of time across history that can support this kind of game structure with such a heavy emphasis on specific heroes. Like, they tried Troy once and it didn't really catch on, nor did Bladestorm. For better and for worse, the Three Kingdoms and Sengoku eras are kind of the time periods that have A) a level of ubiquity in Asia that makes East Asian players interested in them and B) an emphasis on character substantial enough to support the Musou gameplay format. By comparison, I don't think a Musou game based on (for example) the American Revolution would sell particularly well outside of the US, and that war was A) not that long and B) took place in an era where firearms had largely supplanted melee combat so the movesets would wind up feeling very samey. Click to expand... Click to shrink... It doesn't really need to be historical. There are One Piece, Zelda, Dragon Quest, Gundam... They could do something sci-fi or fantasy with their own setting and characters if they want. But, hey, if they like three kingdoms, they don't need to change it, but it's going to be very hard to grow in the West. Dreamboum Member Oct 28, 2017 23,942 How are they gonna find an audience in the west when the game is 80 *euros* on all platforms? Their biggest discount is 64 euros. Come on man MarvelousIntent Member Aug 13, 2019 3,936 LAA said: Origins I haven't tried, more tempted seeing impressions here, but I read Steph Sterling's review on it and they weren't happy with realism essentially removing personality from it. I think the other thing that puts me off is they just seem very heavy handed with DLC too, and seemingly for pretty basic things, I want as complete of a game as possible. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I'd recommend watching some gameplay to see how you feel about it. I understand Steph's gripes with Origins, but it is legitimately the best game in the series and it isn't even close. Like, the combat is actually good. Enemy officers actually put up a fight. Lu Bu is an actual boss fight and hard as hell to beat. Origins three greatest faults are where it chooses to end, the silent protagonist you can't customize, and that there are only like 9 weapons. The weapons issue also isn't that bad because each weapon has functions different and has plenty of abilities to choose from. It feels fantastic to play and blows every other game out of the water. Also, as far as I'm aware, Origins doesn't really have DLC. It had some pre-order bonuses, but thats it. As it is, the game is complete. PlanetSmasher The Abominable Showman Member Oct 25, 2017 133,345 Glio said: It doesn't really need to be historical. There are One Piece, Zelda, Dragon Quest, Gundam... They could do something sci-fi or fantasy with their own setting and characters if they want. But, hey, if they like three kingdoms, they don't need to change it, but it's going to be very hard to grow in the West. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I don't think a bunch of anime Musou spinoffs are going to grow the franchise in the West. They've been doing anime spinoffs for 20 years and they just sell to people who are already Musou fans who happen to like that particular anime. It's a concept that only works on fanbase overlap. And I don't think an original setting is going to interest people who aren't already fans either. General Tso Member Jan 10, 2018 540 Dynasty Warriors Origins was an excellent refresh, and I hope they continue to build off it (like they did DW2 through DW5), because the fundamentals are all there. DontHateTheBacon Unshakable Resolve Member Oct 27, 2017 14,618 It was my first Dynasty Warriors game and I had a complete blast with it. I'm in if this is what they'll be like going forward. I hope the dust settles well for it in the west. Dale Copper Member Apr 12, 2018 24,363 Glio said: Not all of them, but some, yes. Age of Calamity is the best selling musou at 4M. Click to expand... Click to shrink... One Piece Pirate Warriors 4 is also at 4 million sales. Spinoffs are more popular if they push them. thewienke Member Oct 25, 2017 19,345 "If there is a next game" I hope they're being deliberately evasive there considering Origins ends half way through the story Although I do think the story is more interesting before the Three Kingdoms are established since there are more players and more going on Pyro God help us the mods are making weekend threads Member Jul 30, 2018 18,900 United States Glio said: I honestly think what limits the franchise most in the West today is the setting of Three Kingdoms, not the gameplay. It's a fascinating historical period, but I don't think it'll be very popular here. Click to expand... Click to shrink... This is definitely part of it. I'm more into Samurai Warriors because the setting is more interesting to me. LiquidDom Avenger Oct 27, 2017 2,729 I bought Origins on day one but have so much else on my plate. I'd like to get to it soon, might be a good palette cleanser after Death Stranding 2 OP OP Xando Member Oct 28, 2017 37,943 Dreamboum said: How are they gonna find an audience in the west when the game is 80 *euros* on all platforms? Their biggest discount is 64 euros. Come on man Click to expand... Click to shrink... I bought a key for like 43€ a few months ago so you can definitely get it cheaper if you're looking for it. Kyrios Member Oct 27, 2017 19,152 --R said: Origins is a must play for everyone that likes action games. A masterpiece from beginning to end. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Yup, still a frontrunner for my personal GOTY. OP OP Xando Member Oct 28, 2017 37,943 Only thing i wished they would improve on really would be that the MC has more of a personality DyCy Member Oct 25, 2017 587 I loved Origins as my first real DW (I played the first Hyrule Warriors) but as interesting as it was for a first timer I do wonder how much I'd want to revisit the Three Kingdoms story over and over again in sequels so I do think the setting is limiting the potential of the franchise. Would love a spin off based on Star Wars, Marvel or Final Fantasy though. Astral Member Oct 27, 2017 33,463 PlanetSmasher said: They stopped because the third game sold almost no copies. People got sick of the concept after the second game. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Aw damn. I honestly didn't even know there was a third one. I think they have the potential of making a really good one with the current formula. Glio Member Oct 27, 2017 27,882 Spain PlanetSmasher said: I don't think a bunch of anime Musou spinoffs are going to grow the franchise in the West. They've been doing anime spinoffs for 20 years and they just sell to people who are already Musou fans who happen to like that particular anime. It's a concept that only works on fanbase overlap. And I don't think an original setting is going to interest people who aren't already fans either. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I'm going to be cynical because it's an idea that doesn't appeal to me personally, but I'm pretty sure if they made a dark fantasy setting with fallen knights, ruined kingdoms and cursed battlefields; and marketed it as "the Dark Souls of musou," it would sell. And I feel almost dirty just proposing it. PlanetSmasher The Abominable Showman Member Oct 25, 2017 133,345 Glio said: I'm going to be cynical because it's an idea that doesn't appeal to me personally, but I'm pretty sure if they made a dark fantasy setting with fallen knights, ruined kingdoms and cursed battlefields; and marketed it as "the Dark Souls of musou," it would sell. And I feel almost dirty just proposing it. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I don't...really think it would work? Like the entire fantasy of Musou is "being an unstoppable killing machine", trying to focus it around super-hardcore grimdark difficulty would kind of defeat the purpose of it being Musou at all. Dark fantasy doesn't just succeed by default, and I don't think audiences would be tricked by that either. The Berserk musou flopped catastrophically badly. MaxAugust Member Jan 28, 2018 3,573 thewienke said: "If there is a next game" I hope they're being deliberately evasive there considering Origins ends half way through the story Although I do think the story is more interesting before the Three Kingdoms are established since there are more players and more going on Click to expand... Click to shrink... The secret is everyone throughout time has felt that the pre-Three Kingdoms phase of the Three Kingdoms is the interesting part. Pretty much every adaptation stalls out a bit after things solidify. Hard to make the decades long stalemate and then abrupt anticlimactic (although poetic in an "everyone fails" way) denouement satisfying as a conventional narrative.

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2025-05-26 15:09:48 ·

Engadget Podcast: The AI and XR of Google I/O 2025

Would you believe Google really wants to sell you on its AI? This week, we dive into the news from Google I/O 2025 with Engadget's Karissa Bell. We discuss how Gemini is headed to even more places, as well as Karissa's brief hands-on with Google's prototype XR glasses. It seems like Google is trying a bit harder now than it did with Google Glass and its defunct Daydream VR platform. But will the company end up giving up again, or does it really have a shot against Meta and Apple?

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Topics

Lots of AI and a little XR: Highlights from Google I/O 2025 – 1:15
OpenAI buys Jony Ive’s design company for B, in an all equity deal – 29:27
Fujifilm’s X Half could be the perfect retro camera for the social media age – 39:42
Sesame Street is moving from HBO to Netflix – 44:09
Cuts to IMLS will lead to headaches accessing content on apps like Libby and Hoopla – 45:49
Listener Mail: Should I replace my Chromebook with a Mac or PC Laptop? – 48:33
Pop culture picks – 52:22

Credits
Hosts: Devindra Hardawar and Karissa BellProducer: Ben EllmanMusic: Dale North and Terrence O'Brien
Transcript
Devindra:What's up, internet and welcome back to the Engadget Podcast. I'm Senior Editor Devindra Hardawar. I'm joined this morning by Senior Writer Karissa Bell. Hello, Karissa.
Karissa: Hello. Good morning.
Devindra: Good morning. And also podcast producer Ben Elman. Hey Ben, I'm muted my dang self. Hello. Hello, Ben. Good morning. It's been a busy week, like it's one of those weeks where.
Three major conferences happened all at once and a varying like relevance to us. Google IO is the big one. We'll be talking about that with Karissa who was there and got to demo Google's XR glasses, but also Computex was happening. That's over in Taipei and we got a lot of news from that to, we'll mention some of those things.
Also, Microsoft build happened and I feel like this was the less least relevant build to us ever. I got one bit of news I can mention there. That's pretty much it. It's been a crazy hectic week for us over at Eng Gadget. As always, if you're enjoying the show, please be free to subscribe to us on iTunes or your podcast catcher of choice.
Leave us a review on iTunes, drop us email at podcast@enggadget.com.Those emails, by the way, if you ask a good question, it could end up being part of our Ask Engadget section, so that's something we're starting out. I have another good one. I'll be throwing to asking Eng gadgets soon. So send us your emails podcast@enggadget.com, Google io.
It's all about ai, isn't it? I feel like Karissa, we were watching the keynote for this thing and it felt like it went on and on of the thing about the things, like we all pretty much expect more about Gemini ai, more about their newer models a bit about xr. Can you give me, what's your overall impression of IO at this point?
Karissa: Yeah, it's interesting because I've been covering IO long enough that I remember back when it used to be Android. And then there'd be like that little section at the end about, AI and some of the other stuff. And now it's completely reversed where it's entirely AI and basically no Android to the point where they had a whole separate event with their typical Android stuff the week before.
So it didn't have to go through and talk about any of yeah, the mobile things.
Devindra: That was just like a live stream that was just like a chill, live stream. No realeffort put into it. Whereas this is the whole show. They had a, who was it? But they had TOIs. TOIs, yeah. They had actual music which is something a lot of these folks do at keynotes.
It's actually really disconcerting to see cool musicians taking the corporate gig and performing at one of these things. I think, it was like 20 13, 20 14, maybe the Intel one, IDF or something. But the weekend was there. Just trying to jam to all these nerds and it was sad, but yeah. How was the experience Karissa like actually going there?
Karissa: Yeah, it was good. That keynote is always kind of a slog. Just, live blogging for our almost two hours straight, just constant is it's a lot. I did like the music. Towa was very chill. It was a nice way to start much. I preferred it over the crazy loop daddy set we got last year.
If anyone remembers that.
Devindra: Yeah.
Ben: Yeah. Oh, I remember that. Mark Rub was at audio. That was so weird.
Devindra: Yeah. Yeah, it was a little intense. Cool. So what are some of the highlights? Like there, there's a bunch of stuff. If you go look on, on the site on Engadget, wehave rounded up like all the major news and that includes a couple of things like hey, AI mode, chat bot coming to search.
That's cool. We got more, I think the thing a lot of people were looking at was like Project Astra and where that's gonna be going. And that is the sort of universal AI assistant where you could hold your phone up and just ask it questions about the world. We got another demo video about that.
Which again, the actual utility of it, I'm weirded out by. There was also one video where they were just like I'm gonna be dumb. I'm gonna pretend I'm very stupid and ask ask Astro, what is this tall building in front of me. And it was like a fire hydrant or something. It was like some piece of street thing.
It was not a really well done demo. Do you have any thoughts about that, Krista? Does that seem more compelling to you now or is it the same as what we saw last year?
Karissa: I think what was interesting to me about it was that we saw Astro last year and like that, I think there was a lot of excitement around that, but it wasn't really entirely clear where that.
Project is going. They've said it's like an experimental research thing. And then, I feel like this year they really laid out that they want tobring all that stuff to Gemini. Astra is sort of their place to like tinker with this and, get all this stuff working.
But like their end game is putting this into Gemini. You can already see it a little bit in Gemini Live, which is like their multimodal feature where you can do some. Version of what ASRA can do. And so that was interesting. They're saying, we want Gemini to be this universal AI assistant.
They didn't use the word a GI or anything like that. But I think it's pretty clear where they're going and like what their ambition is they want this to be, an all seeing, all knowing AI assistant that can help you with anything is what they're trying to sell it as.
Devindra: It is weird, like we're watching the demo video and it's a guy trying to fix his bike and he is pointing his phone at like the bike and asking questions like which, which particular, I don't know. It's which particular nut do I need for this tightening thing and it's giving him good advice.
It's pointing to things on YouTube. I. I don't know how useful this will actually be. This kind of goes to part of the stuff we're seeing with AI too, of just like offloadingsome of the grunt work of human intelligence because you can do this right now, people have been YouTubing to fix things forever.
YouTube has become this like information repository of just fix it stuff or home plumbing or whatever. And now it's just like you'll be able to talk to your phone. It'll direct you right to those videos or. Extract the actual instructions from those. That's cool. I feel like that's among the more useful things, more useful than like putting Gemini right into Chrome, which is another thing they're talking about, and I don't know how useful that is other than.
They wanna push AI in front of us, just like Microsoft wants to push copilot in front of us at all times.
Ben: What is a situation where you would have a question about your Chrome tabs? Like I'm not one of those people that has 15 chrome tabs open at any given time, and I know that I am. Yeah, I know.
Wait, you're saying that like it's a high. Like it's high. Yeah, no I know. So I have a abnormally low number of chrome tabs open, but can you still come upwith an idea of why you would ask Gemini anything about your own tabs open? Hopefully you have them organized. At least
Karissa: they should. A few examples of like online shopping, like maybe you have.
Two tabs of two different products open. And you can say
Devindra: exactly,
Karissa: ask Gemini to like, compare the reviews. Or they use like the example of a recipe video, a recipe blog. And maybe, you wanna make some kind of modification, make the recipe gluten free. And you could ask Gemini Hey, make this how would I make this gluten free?
But I think you're right, like it's not exactly clear. You can already just open a new tab and go to Gemini and ask it. Something. So they're just trying to reduce
Devindra: friction. I think that's the main thing. Like just the less you have to think about it, the more it's in your face. You can just always always just jump right to it.
It's hey, you can Google search from any your UL bar, your location bar in any browser. We've just grown to use that, but that didn't used to be the case. I remember there used to be a separate Google field. Some browsers and it wasn't always there in every browser too. They did announce some new models.
Wesaw there's Gemini 2.5 Pro. There's a deep think reasoning model. There's also a flash model that they announced for smaller devices. Did they show any good demos of the reasoning stuff? Because I that's essentially slower AI processing to hopefully get you better answers with fewer flaws.
Did they actually show how that worked? Karissa.
Karissa: I only saw what we all saw during the keynote and I think it's, we've seen a few other AI companies do something similar where you can see it think like its reasoning process. Yeah. And see it do that in real time.
But I think it's a bit unclear exactly what that's gonna look like.
Devindra: Watching a video, oh, Gemini can simulate nature simulate light. Simulate puzzles, term images into code.
Ben: I feel like the big thing, yeah. A lot of this stuff is from DeepMind, right? This is DeepMind an alphabet company.
Devindra: DeepMind and Alphabet company. There is Deep mind. This is deep Think and don't confuse this with deep seek, which is that the Chinese AI company, and theyclearly knew what they were doing when they call it that thing. Deep seek. But no, yeah, that is, this is partially stuff coming out of DeepMind.
DeepMind, a company which Google has been like doing stuff with for a while. And we just have not really seen much out of it. So I guess Gemini and all their AI processes are a way to do that. We also saw something that got a lot of people, we saw
Ben: Nobel Prize from them. Come on.
Devindra: Hey, we did see that.
What does that mean? What is that even worth anymore? That's an open question. They also showed off. A new video tool called Flow, which I think got a lot of people intrigued because it's using a new VO three model. So an updated version of what they've had for video effects for a while.
And the results look good. Like the video looks higher quality. Humans look more realistic. There have been. The interesting thing about VO three is it can also do synchronized audio to actually produce audio and dialogue for people too. So people have been uploading videos around this stuff online at this point, and you have tosubscribe to the crazy high end.
Version of Google's subscription to even test out this thing at this point that is the AI Ultra plan that costs a month. But I saw something of yeah, here's a pretend tour of a make believe car show. And it was just people spouting random facts. So yeah, I like EVs. I would like an ev.
And then it looks realistic. They sound synchronized like you could. I think this is a normal person. Then they just kinda start laughing at the end for no reason. Like weird little things. It's if you see a sociopath, try to pretend to be a human for a little bit. There's real Patrick Bateman vibes from a lot of those things, so I don't know.
It's fun. It's cool. I think there's, so didn't we
Ben: announce that they also had a tool to help you figure out whether or not a video was generated by flow? They did announce that
Devindra: too.
Ben: I've yeah, go ahead. Go
Karissa: ahead. Yeah. The synth id, they've been working on that for a while. They talked about it last year at io.
That's like their digital watermarking technology. And the funny thing about this istheir whole, the whole concept of AI watermarking is you put like these like invisible watermarks into AI generated content. You might, you couldn't just. See it, just watching this content.
But you can go to this website now and basically like double check. If it has one of these watermarks, which is on one hand it's. I think it's important that they do this work, but I also just wonder how many people are gonna see a video and think I wonder what kind of AI is in this.
Let me go to this other website and like double check it like that. Just,
Ben: yeah. The people who are most likely to immediately believe it are the, also the least likely to go to the website and be like, I would like to double check
Devindra: this. It doesn't matter because most people will not do it and the damage will be done.
Just having super hyper realistic, AI video, they can, you can essentially make anything happen. It's funny that the big bad AI bad guy in the new Mission Impossible movies, the entity, one of the main things it does is oh, we don't know what's true anymore because the entity can just cr fabricate reality at whim.
We're just doing that.We're just doing that for, I don't know, for fun. I feel like this is a thing we should see in all AI video tools. This doesn't really answer the problem, answer the question that everyone's having though. It's what is the point of these tools? Because it does devalue filmmaking, it devalues people using actual actors or using, going out and actually shooting something.
Did Google make a better pitch for why you would use Flow Karissa or how it would fit into like actual filmmaking?
Karissa: I'm not sure they did. They showed that goofy Darren Aronofsky trailer for some woman who was trying to like, make a movie about her own birth, and it was like seemed like they was trying to be in the style of some sort of like psychological thriller, but it just, I don't know, it just felt really weird to me.
I was I was just like, what are we watching? This doesn't, what are we watching? Yeah.
Ben: Was there any like good backstory about why she was doing that either or was it just Hey, we're doing something really weird?
Karissa: No, she was just oh I wonder, you know what? I wanna tell the story of my own birth and Okay.
Ben:Okay, but why is your relate birth more? Listen its like every, I need more details. Why is your birth more important? It's, everybody wants lots of babies. Write I memoir like one of three ways or something.
Devindra: Yeah, it's about everybody who wants to write a memoir. It's kinda the same thing. Kinda that same naval ga thing.
The project's just called ancestral. I'm gonna play a bit of a trailer here. I remember seeing this, it reminds me of that footage I dunno if you guys remember seeing, look who's talking for the very first time or something, or those movies where they, they showed a lot of things about how babies are made.
And as a kid I was like, how'd they make that, how'd that get done? They're doing that now with AI video and ancestral this whole project. It is kinda sad because Aronofsky is one of my, like one of my favorite directors when he is on, he has made some of my favorite films, but also he's a guy who has admittedly stolen ideas and concepts from people like Satoshi kh as specific framing of scenes and things like that.
In Requa for a Dream are in some cones movies as well. SoI guess it's to be expected, but it is. Sad because Hollywood as a whole, the union certainly do not like AI video. There was a story about James Earl Jones' voice being used as Darth Vader. In Fortnite. In Fortnite. In Fortnite, yeah.
Which is something we knew was gonna happen because Disney licensed the rights to his voice before he died from his estate. He went in and recorded lines to at least create a better simulation of his voice. But people are going out there making that Darth Vader swear and say bad things in Fortnite and the WGA or is it sag?
It's probably sag but sad. Like the unions are pissed off about this because they do not know this was happening ahead of time and they're worried about what this could mean for the future of AI talent. Flow looks interesting. I keep seeing play people play with it. I made a couple videos asked it to make Hey, show me three cats living in Brooklyn with a view of the Manhattan skyline or something.
And it, it did that, but the apartment it rendered didn't look fully real.It had like weird heating things all around. And also apparently. If you just subscribe to the basic plan to get access to flow, you can use flow, but that's using the VO two model. So older AI model. To get VO three again, you have to pay a month.
So maybe that'll come down in price eventually. But we shall see. The thing I really want to talk with you about Krisa is like, what the heck is happening with Android xr? And that is a weird project for them because I was writing up the news and they announced like a few things.
They were like, Hey we have a new developer released to help you build Android XR apps. But it wasn't until the actual a IO show. That they showed off more of what they were actually thinking about. And you got to test out a pair of prototype Google XR glasses powered by Android xr. Can you tell me about that experience and just how does it differ from the other XR things you've seen from who is it from Several, look, you've seen Metas Meta, you saw one from Snap, right?
Meta
Karissa: I've seen Snap. Yeah. Yeah. I've seen the X reel. Yeah, some of the other smallercompanies I got to see at CES. Yeah, that was like a bit of a surprise. I know that they've been talking about Android XR for a while. I feel like it's been a little, more in the background. So they brought out these, these glasses and, the first thing that I noticed about them was like, they were actually pretty small and like normal looking compared to, met Orion or like the snap spectacles.
Like these were very thin which was cool. But the display was only on one side. It was only on one lens. They called it like a monocular display. So there's one lens on one side. So it's basically just like a little window, very small field of view.
Devindra: We could see it in, if you go to the picture on top of Chris's hands on piece, you can see the frame out.
Of what that lens would be. Yeah.
Karissa: Yeah. And I noticed even when we were watching that, that demo video that they did on stage, that like the field of view looked very small. It was even smaller than Snaps, which is 35 degrees like this. I would, if I had to guess, I'd say it's maybe like around 20.
They wouldn't say what it was. They said, this is a prototype. We don't wanna say the way I thought about it, the wayI compared it to my piece was like the front screwing on a foldable phone, so it's you can get notifications and you can like glance at things, but it's not fully immersive ar it's not, surrounding your space and like really cha changing your reality, in the way that like snap and and meta are trying to do later when I was driving home, I realized it actually was reminded me like a better comparison might be the heads up display in your car.
Speaker: Yeah. Yeah.
Karissa: If you have a car that has that little hu where you can see how fast you're going and directions and stuff like that.
Devindra: That's what Google Glass was doing too, right? Because that was a little thing off to the side of your revision that was never a full takeover. Your vision type of thing.
Karissa: Yeah. It's funny, that's what our editor Aaron said when he was editing my piece, he was like, oh, this sounds like Google Glass.
And I'm like, no, it actually, it's, it is better than that. These are like normal looking glasses. The, I tried Google Glass many years ago. Like the Fidelity was better. Actually I was thinking. It feels like a happy medium almost between, meta ray bands and like full ar Yeah, like I, I've had a meta ray band glassesfor a long time and people always ask me, like when I show it to someone, they're like, oh, that's so cool.
And then they go, but you can see stuff, right? There's a display and I'm like. No. These are just, glasses with the speaker. And I feel like this might be like a good kind of InBetween thing because you have a little bit of display, but they still look like glasses. They're not bulky 'cause they're not trying to do too much. One thing I really liked is that when you take a photo, you actually get a little preview of that image that like floats onto the screen, which was really cool because it's hard to figure out how to frame pictures when you are taking using glasses camera on your smart glasses.
So I think there's some interesting ideas, but it's very early. Obviously they want like Gemini to be a big part of it. The Gemini stuff. Was busted in my demo.
Devindra: You also said they don't plan on selling these are like purely, hey, this is what could be a thing. But they're not selling these specific glasses, right?
Karissa: Yeah, these specific ones are like, this is a research prototype. But they did also announce a partnership with Warby Parker and another glasses company. So I think it's like you can see them trying to take a meta approach here, whichactually would be pretty smart to say let's partner with.
A known company that makes glasses, they're already popular. We can give them our, our tech expertise. They can make the glasses look good and, maybe we'll get something down the line. I actually heard a rumor that. Prototype was manufactured by Samsung.
They wouldn't say
Devindra: Of course it's Sam, Samsung wants to be all over this. Samsung is the one building their the full on Android XR headset, which is a sort of like vision Pro copycat, like it is Mohan. Yeah. Moan. It is displays with the pass through camera. That should be coming later this year.
Go ahead Ben.
Ben: Yeah. Question for Karissa. When Sergey brand was talking about Google Glass, did that happen before or after the big demo for the Google XR glasses?
Karissa: That was after. That was at the end of the day. He was a surprise guest in this fireside chat with the DeepMind, CEO. And yeah, it was, we were all wondering about that.
'cause we all, dev probably remembers this very well the, when Google Glass came out and cereal and skydivewearing them into io. Yeah.
Speaker: Yep.
Karissa: And then, now for him to come back and say we made a lot of mistakes with that product and.
Ben: But was it mistakes or was it just the fact that like technology was not there yet because he was talking about like consumer electronic supply chain, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Devindra: He's right that the tech has caught up with what the vision of what they wanted to do, but also I think he fundamentally misread like people will see you looking like the goddamn borg and want to destroy you. They want you will turn into Captain Picard and be like, I must destroy whoever is wearing Google Glass because this looks like an alien trying to take over my civilization.
And the thing that meta did right, that you've seen Karissa, is that make 'em look like normal glasses and Yeah, but nobody will knows,
Ben: Karissa does not look entirely human in this picture either.
Karissa: Yes. But listen from, if you see 'em straight on, they don't, they look transparent. That was I used that photo because I was trying to.
Devindra: You get the angle, show The display.
Karissa: Yeah.
Devindra:Yeah. There's another one like you. This looks normal. This looks totally normal. The glasses themselves look like, they look like typical hipster glasses. Like they're not like a super big frame around them. You're they look like the arms seem big. The arms seem wider than a typical pair of glasses, but you wouldn't know that 'cause it's covered in your hair.
A lot of people won't notice glasses, arms as much.
Ben: Yeah,
Devindra: that is cool. The issue
Ben: still is that all of these frames are so chunky. And it's because you need to hide all of the internals and everything, but you're not gonna get like the beautiful, like thin Japanese like titanium anytime soon. No, because this stuff needs to shrink way more.
Devindra: This stuff that's not, those the kind of frames they are. I will say I had a meeting with the one of the I believe the CEO of X reel who. Came not, I did talk to them at c so they, they had like a lot of ideas about that. I talked to the the head of space top, which isthe, that's the company that was doing the sort of AR laptop thing.
And then they gave up on that idea because AI PCs have the nmps that they need to do that stuff. And they're all in on the idea that, more people will want to use these sorts of glasses. Maybe not all the time, but for specific use cases. Something that co covers your field of vision more.
Could be a great thing when you sit down at your desk. I could see people doing this. I could see people getting these glasses. I don't know if it's gonna be good for society, right? It feels when Bluetooth headsets were first popping up and everybody hated those people, and you're like, oh, we must shun this person from society.
This one, you can't quite see the screen. So you can pretend to be a normal human and then have this like augmented ability next to you. If they can hide that, if they can actually hide the fact that you have a display on your glasses that would help people like me who are face blind and I walk around I don't, I know this person.
I've seen them before. What is their name? What is their name? I could see that being useful.
Ben: On the other side of itthough, if you have one standard look for glasses like this, then you know, oh, this person is, I. Also interacting with like information and stuff that's like popping up in front of their eyes.
It's a universal signifier, just like having a big pair of headphones is
Devindra: I think you will see people looking off to the distance. Krisa, did you notice that your eye line was moving away from people you were talking to while you were wearing these?
Karissa: Yeah, and that was also one of the issues that I had was that the.
Actual, like display was like, was it like didn't quite render right? Where I'm not a farsighted person, but I actually had to look farther off in the distance to actually get it to like my eyes to focus on it. And I asked 'em about that and they're like, oh it's a prototype.
It's not quite dialed in. They weren't calibrating these things to your eyeballs. Like the way when I did the Meta Orion demo, they have to take these specific measurements because there's eye tracking and all these things and this, didn't have any of that. There. Yeah, there definitely was.
You're, somebody's talking to you, but you're looking over here.
Devindra: That's not great. That'snot great for society. You're having a conversation with people. I like how they're framing this oh yes, you can be more connected with reality. 'cause you don't have a phone in front of your face, except you always have another display in front of your face, which nobody else can see, and you're gonna look like an alien walking around.
They showed some videos of people using it for like street navigation. Which I kinda like. You're in a new city, you'll see the arrows and where to turn and stuff. That's useful. But there is this, there was one that was really overwrought. It was a couple dancing at Sunset, and the guy is take a picture of this beautiful moment of the sun peeking through behind, my lady friend.
And it just felt like that's what you wanna do in that moment. You wanna talk to your virtual assistant while you should be enjoying the fact that you are having this beautiful dancing evening, which nobody will ever actually have. So that's the whole thing. I will say my overall thoughts on this stuff, like just looking at this, the stuff they showed before they actually showed us the glasses, it doesn't feel like Google is actually that far in terms of making this a reality.
Karissa the, like I'm comparing it to. Where Metais right now, and even where Apple is right now, like when Apple showed us the vision Pro. We were able to sit down and I had a 30 minute demo of that thing working, and I saw the vision of what they were doing and they thought a lot about how this was.
How long was your demo with this thing?
Karissa: I was in the room with them for about five minutes and I had them on for about three minutes myself. That's not a demo. That's not a demo.
Ben: Oh, goodness. So all of these pictures were taken in the same 90 seconds? Yes. Yeah. God. That's amazing.
Devindra: It's amazing you were able to capture these impressions, Karissa.
Yeah,
Karissa: I will say that they did apparently have a demo in December, a press event in December where people got to see these things for a lot longer, but it was, they could not shoot them at all. We, a lot of us were wondering if that was why it was so constrained. They only had one room, there's hundreds of people basically lining up to try these out.
And they're like very strict. You got five minutes, somebody's in there like after a couple minutes, rushing you out, and we're like, okay. Like
Devindra: They clearly only have a handful of these. That's like the main reason this is happening. I am, this is the company, that did Google Glass and that was tooearly and also maybe too ambitious.
But also don't forget, Google Cardboard, which was this that was a fun little project of getting phone-based vr happening. Daydream vr, which was their self-contained headset, which was cool. That was when Samsung was doing the thing with Meta as well, or with Oculus at the time. So and they gave up on those things.
Completely. And Google's not a company I trust with consumer Hardaware in general. So I am. Don't think there is a huge future in Android xr, but they wanna be there. They wanna be where Meta is and where Apple is and we shall see. Anything else you wanna add about io, Karissa?
Karissa: No, just that AI.
A i a ai
Devindra: a I didn't AI ao, A IAO a IO starline. The thing that was a, like weird 3D rendering teleconferencing video that is becoming a real thing that's turning to Google Beam video. But it's gonna be an enterprise thing. They're teaming up with AI to, with HP to bring a scaled down version of that two businesses.
I don't think we'll love or see That's one of those things where it's oh, this existsin some corporate offices who will pay for this thing, but. I don't, normal people will never interact with this thing, so it practically just does not exist. So we shall see. Anyway, stay tuned for, we're gonna have more demos of the Gemini stuff.
We'll be looking at the new models, and certainly Chris and I will be looking hard at Android XR and wherever the heck that's going.
Let's quickly move on to other news. And I just wanna say there were other events, Compex, we wrote up a couple, a whole bunch of laptops. A MD announced a cheaper radio on graphics card. Go check out our stories on that stuff. Build. I wrote one, I got a 70 page book of news from Microsoft about build and 99% of that news just does not apply to us because Build is so fully a developer coding conference. Hey, there's more more copilot stuff. There's a copilot app coming to 360fi subscribers, and that's cool, but not super interesting. I would say the big thing that happened this week and that surprised a lot of us is the news that OpenAI has bought.
Johnny i's design startup for six and a half billion. Dollars. This is a wild story, which is also paired with a weird picture. It looks like they're getting married. It looks like they're announcing their engagement over here because Johnny, ive is just leaning into him. Their heads are touching a little bit.
It's so adorable. You're not showing
Ben: the full website though. The full website has like a script font. It literally looks, yeah, like something from the knot.
Devindra: It Is it? Yeah. Let's look at here. Sam and Johnny introduced io. This is an extraordinary moment. Computers are now seeing, thinking, understanding, please come to our ceremony at this coffee shop.
For some reason, they also yeah, so they produced this coffee shop video to really show this thing off and, it is wild to me. Let me pull this up over here.
Ben: While we're doing that. Karissa, what do youhave to say about this?
Karissa: I don't, I'm trying to remember, so I know this is Johnny Ives like AI because he also has like the love from, which is still
Devindra: this is love from, this is, so he is, let me get the specifics of the deal out here.
Yeah. As part of the deal Ive and his design studio love form. Is it love form or love form? Love form. Yeah. Love form are gonna be joining are gonna work independently of open ai. But Scott Cannon Evans Hanky and Ang Tan who co-founded io. This is another io. I hate these. Yeah, so IO is his AI.
Karissa: Focused design thing.
And then love form is like his design
Devindra: studio thing.
Karissa: Sure. Yeah. I'm just, he
Devindra: has two design things.
Karissa: I'm trying to remember what they've done. I remember there was like a story about they made like a really expensive jacket with some weird buttons or something like
Devindra: Yep. I do remember that.
Karissa: I was just trying to back my brain of what Johnny Iiv has really done in his post Apple life. I feel like we haven't, he's made
Devindra: billions of dollars courses. What's happened? Yes.Because he is now still an independent man. Clearly he's an independent contractor, but love like the other side of io.
Which includes those folks. They will become open AI employees alongside 50 other engineers, designers, and researchers. They're gonna be working on AI Hardaware. It seems like Johnny, I will come in with like ideas, but he, this is not quite a marriage. He's not quite committing. He's just taking the money and being like, Ew, you can have part of my AI startup for six and a half billion dollars.
Ben: Let us know your taxes. It's all equity though, so this is all paper money. Six and a half billion dollars. Of like open AI's like crazy, their crazy valuation who knows how act, how much it's actually going to be worth. But all these people are going to sell a huge chunk of stock as soon as open AI goes public anyway.
So it's still gonna be an enormous amount of money.
Devindra: Lemme, let me see here, the latest thing. Open OpenAI has raised 57.9 billion of funding over 11 rounds.Good Lord. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, a big chunk of that is going to, to this thing because I think what happened is that Sam Altman wants to, he clearly just wants to be Steve Jobs.
I think that's what's happening here. And go, I, all of you go look at the video, the announcement video for this thing, because it is one of the weirdest things I've seen. It is. Johnny I have walking through San Francisco, Sam Altman, walking through San Francisco with his hands in his pockets. There's a whole lot of setup to these guys meeting in a coffee shop, and then they sit there at the coffee shop like normal human beings, and then have an announcement video talking to nobody.
They're just talking to the middle of the coffee bar. I don't know who they're addressing. Sometimes they refer to each other and sometimes they refer to camera, but they're never looking at the camera. This is just a really wild thing. Also. Yet, another thing that makes me believe, I don't think Sam Altman is is a real human boy.
I think there is actually something robotic about this man, because I can't see him actually perform in real lifewhat they're gonna do. They reference vagaries, that's all. It's, we don't know what exactly is happening. There is a quote. From Johnny Ive, and he says, quote, the responsibility that Sam shares is honestly beyond my comprehension end quote.
Responsibility of what? Just building this like giant AI thing. Sam Alman For humanity. Yeah, for humanity. Like just unlocking expertise everywhere. Sam Altman says he is. He has some sort of AI device and it's changed his life. We don't know what it is. We dunno what they're actually working on. They announced nothing here.
But Johnny Ive is very happy because he has just made billions of dollars. He's not getting all of that money, but he, I think he's very pleased with this arrangement. And Sam Malman seems pleased that, oh, the guy who who designed the iPhone and the MacBook can now work for me. And Johnny, I also says the work here at Open AI is the best work he's ever done.
Sure. You'd say that. Sure. By the way.
Karissa: Sure. What do you think Apple thinks about all this?
Devindra: Yeah,
Karissa: their AIprogram is flailing and like their, star designer who, granted is not, separated from Apple a while ago, but is now teaming up with Sam Altman for some future computing AI Hardaware where like they can't even get AI Siri to work.
That must be like a gut punch for folks maybe on the other side of it though. Yeah, I
Ben: don't think it's sour grapes to say. Are they going into the like. Friend, like friend isn't even out yet, but like the humane pin? Yes. Or any of the other like AI sidekick sort of things like that has already crashed and burned spectacularly twice.
Devindra: I think Apple is, maybe have dodged a bullet here because I, the only reason Johnny and I just working on this thing is because he OpenAI had put some money into left Formm or IO years ago too. So they already had some sort of collaboration and he's just okay, people are interested in the ai.
What sort of like beautiful AI device can I buy? The thing is.Johnny Ive unchecked as a designer, leads to maddening things like the magic mouse, the charges from the bottom butterfly
Karissa: keyboard,
Devindra: any butterfly keyboard. Yeah, that's beautiful, but not exactly functional. I've always worked best when he Johnny, ive always worked best when I.
He had the opposing force of somebody like a Steve Jobs who could be like, no, this idea is crazy. Or reign it in or be more functional. Steve Jobs not a great dude in many respects, but the very least, like he was able to hone into product ideas and think about how humans use products a lot. I don't think Johnny, ive on his own can do that.
I don't think Sam Altman can do that because this man can barely sit and have a cup of coffee together. Like a human being. So I, whatever this is. I honestly, Chris, I feel like Apple has dodged a bullet because this is jumping into the AI gadget trend. Apple just needs to get the software right, because they have the devices, right?
We are wearing, we're wearing Apple watches. People have iPhones, people have MacBooks. What they need to do, solidify the infrastructure the AIsmarts between all those devices. They don't need to go out and sell a whole new device. This just feels like opening AI is a new company and they can try to make an AI device a thing.
I don't think it's super compelling, but let us know listeners, if any of this, listen to this chat of them talking about nothing. Unlocking human greatness, unlocking expertise just through ai, through some AI gadget. I don't quite buy it. I think it's kind of garbage, but yeah.
Ben: Anything else you guys wanna say about this?
This is coming from the same guy who, when he was asked in an interview what college students should study, he said Resilience.
Karissa: Yeah. I just think all these companies want. To make the thing that's the next iPhone. Yes. They can all just stop being relying on Apple. It's the thing that Mark Zuckerberg has with all of their like Hardaware projects, which by the way, there was one of the stories said that Johnny I thing has been maybe working on some kind of.
Head earbuds with cameras on them, which soundedvery similar to a thing that meta has been rumored about meta for a long time. And and also Apple,
Devindra: like there, there were rumors about AirPods with head with
Karissa: cameras. Yeah. And everyone's just I think trying to like, make the thing that's like not an iPhone that will replace our iPhones, but good luck to them, good, good
Devindra: luck to that because I think that is coming from a fundamentally broken, like it's a broken purpose. The whole reason doing that is just try to outdo the iPhone. I was thinking about this, how many companies like Apple that was printing money with iPods would just be like, Hey we actually have a new thing and this will entirely kill our iPod business.
This new thing will destroy the existing business that is working so well for us. Not many companies do that. That's the innovator's dilemma that comes back and bites companies in the butt. That's why Sony held off so long on jumping into flat screen TVs because they were the world's leader in CRTs, in Trinitron, and they're like, we're good.
We're good into the nineties. And then they completely lost the TV business. That's why Toyota was so slow to EVs, because they're like, hybrids are good to us. Hybrids are great. We don't need an EV for a very long time. And then they released an EV thatwe, where the wheels fell off. So it comes for everybody.
I dunno. I don't believe in these devices. Let's talk about something that could be cool. Something that is a little unrealistic, I think, but, for a certain aesthetic it is cool. Fujifilm announced the X half. Today it is an digital camera with an analog film aesthetic. It shoots in a three by four portrait aspect ratio.
That's Inax mini ratio. It looks like an old school Fuji camera. This thing is pretty wild because the screen it's only making those portrait videos. One of the key selling points is that it can replicate some film some things you get from film there's a light leak simulation for when you like Overexpose film A little bit, a ation, and that's something
Ben: that Fujifilm is known for.
Devindra: Yes. They love that. They love these simulation modes. This is such a social media kid camera, especially for the people who cannot afford the Fuji films, compact cameras.Wow. Even the
Ben: screen is do you wanna take some vertical photographs for your social media? Because vertical video has completely won.
Devindra: You can't, and it can take video, but it is just, it is a simplistic living little device. It has that, what do you call that? It's that latch that you hit to wind film. It has that, so you can put it into a film photograph mode where you don't see anything on the screen. You have to use the viewfinder.
To take pictures and it starts a countdown. You could tell it to do like a film, real number of pictures, and you have to click through to hit, take your next picture. It's the winder, it's, you can wind to the next picture. You can combine two portrait photos together. It's really cool. It's really cute.
It's really unrealistic I think for a lot of folks, but. Hey, social media kits like influencers, the people who love to shoot stuff for social media and vertical video. This could be a really cool little device. I don't, what do you guys think about this?
Karissa: You know what this reminds me of? Do you remember like in the early Instagram days when there was all theseapps, like hip, systematic where they tried to emulate like film aesthetics?
And some of them would do these same things where like you would take the picture but you couldn't see it right away. 'cause it had to develop. And they even had a light leak thing. And I'm like, now we've come full circle where the camera companies are basically like yeah. Taking or like just doing their own.
Spin on that, but
Devindra: it only took them 15 years to really jump on this trend. But yes, everybody was trying to emulate classic cameras and foodie was like, oh, you want things that cost more but do less. Got it. That's the foodie film X half. And I think this thing will be a huge success. What you're talking about krisa, there is a mode where it's just yeah.
You won't see the picture immediately. It has to develop in our app and then you will see it eventually. That's cool honestly, like I love this. I would not, I love it. I would not want it to be my main camera, but I would love to have something like this to play around when you could just be a little creative and pretend to be a street photographer for a little bit.
Oh man. This would be huge in Brooklyn. I can just,
Ben: Tom Rogers says cute, but stupid tech. I think that'sthe perfect summary.
Devindra: But this is, and I would say this compared to the AI thing, which is just like. What is this device? What are you gonna do with it? It feels like a lot of nothing in bakery.
Whereas this is a thing you hold, it takes cool pictures and you share it with your friends. It is such a precise thing, even though it's very expensive for what it is. I would say if you're intrigued by this, you can get cheap compact cameras, get used cameras. I only ever buy refurbished cameras.
You don't necessarily need this, but, oh man, very, but having a
Karissa: Fuji film camera is a status symbol anyway. So I don't know. This is it's eight 50 still seems like a little steep for a little toy camera, basically. But also I'm like I see that. I'm like, Ooh, that looks nice.
Devindra: Yeah. It's funny the power shots that kids are into now from like the two thousands those used to cost like 200 to 300 bucks and I thought, oh, that is a big investment in camera. Then I stepped up to the Sony murals, which were like 500 to 600 or so. I'm like, okay, this is a bigger step up than even that.
Most people would be better off with amuralist, but also those things are bigger than this tiny little pocket camera. I dunno. I'm really I think it's, I'm enamored with this whole thing. Also briefly in other news we saw that apparently Netflix is the one that is jumping out to save Sesame Street and it's going to, Sesame Street will air on Netflix and PBS simultaneously.
That's a good, that's a good thing because there was previously a delay when HBO was in charge. Oh really? Yeah. They would get the new episodes and there was like, I forget how long the delay actually was, but it would be a while before new stuff hit PBS. This is just Hey, I don't love that so much of our entertainment and pop culture it, we are now relying on streamers for everything and the big media companies are just disappointing us, but.
This is a good move. I think Sesame Street should stick around, especially with federal funding being killed left and right for public media like this. This is a good thing. Sesame Street is still good. My kids love it. When my son starts leaning into like his Blippy era, I. I justkinda slowly tune that out.
Here's some Sesame Street. I got him into PeeWee's Playhouse, which is the original Blippy. I'm like, yes, let's go back to the source. Because Peewee was a good dude. He's really, and that show still holds up. That show is so much fun. Like a great introduction to camp for kids. Great. In introduction to like also.
Diverse neighborhoods, just Sesame Street as well. Peewee was, or mr. Rogers was doing
Ben: it before. I think everyone,
Devindra: Mr. Rogers was doing it really well too. But Peewee was always something special because PeeWee's Wild, Peewee, Lawrence Fishburn was on Peewee. There, there's just a lot of cool stuff happening there.
Looking back at it now as an adult, it is a strange thing. To watch, but anyway, great to hear that Sesame Street is back. Another thing, not so quick.
Ben: Yeah, let me do this one. Go ahead, if I may. Go ahead. So if you have any trouble getting audio books on Libby or Hoopla or any of the other interlibrary loan systems that you can like access on your phone or iPad any tablet.
That'sbecause of the US government because a while ago the Trump administration passed yet another executive order saying that they wanted to cut a bunch of funding to the Institute of Museum and Library Services, the IMLS, and they're the ones who help circulate big quotation marks there just because it's digital files, all of these things from interlibrary loans.
So you can, get your audio books that you want. The crazy thing about this is that the IMLS was created in 1996 by a Republican controlled Congress. What's the deal here, guys? There's no waste, fraud and abuse, but if you have problems getting audio books, you can tell a friend or if anybody's complaining about why their, library selection went down.
By a lot on Libby recently, now you have the answer.
Devindra: It is truly sad. A lot of what's happening is just to reduce access to information because hey, a well-formed population isdangerous to anybody in charge, right? Terrible news. Let's move on to stuff from that's happening around in gadget.
I wanna quickly shout out that Sam Rutherford has reviewed the ACEs RG flow Z 13. This is the sort of like surface like device. That's cool. This is the rise in pro Max chip. Sam seems to like it, so that's, it's a cool thing. Not exactly stealthy. He gave it a 79, which is right below. The threshold we have for recommending new products because this thing is expensive.
You're paying a lot of money to get, essentially get a gaming tablet. But I tested out cs. It is cool that it actually worked for a certain type of person with too much money and who just needs the lightest gaming thing possible. I could see it being compelling. Let's see, what is the starting price?
for a gaming tablet. Sam says it costs the same or more as a comparable RRG Zes G 14 with a real RTX 50 70. That is a great laptop. The RRGs Zes G 14, we have praised that laptop so much. So this is notreally meant for anybody ACEs lifts to do these experiments. They're getting there, they're getting there in terms of creating a gaming tablet, but not quite something I'd recommend for everybody at this point.
All right. We have a quick email from a listener too. Thank you for sending this in, Jake Thompson. If you wanna send us an email, e podcast in gadget.com, and again, your emails may head into our Asking Gadget section. Jake asks. He's a real estate agent in need of a new laptop. He uses a Chromebook right now and it meets every need he has.
Everything they do is web-based, but should they consider alternatives to a premium com Chromebook for their next computer, he says he doesn't mind spending or more if he can get something lightweight, trustworthy with a solid battery life. What would we consider in the search? I would point to, I immediately point to Jake, to our laptop guides because literally everything we mention, the MacBook Air.
The AsisZen book, S 14, even the Dell Xbs 13 would be not much more than that price. I think more useful than a premium Chromebook because I think the idea of a premium Chromebook is a, is insanity. I don't know why you're spending so much money for a thing that can only do web apps, cheap Chromebooks, mid-range Chromebooks fine, or less.
Great. But if you're spending that much money and you want something that's more reliable, that you could do more with, even if everything you're doing is web-based, there may be other things you wanna do. MacBook Windows laptop. There is so much more you can unlock there. Little bit, a little bit of gaming, a little bit of media creation.
I don't know, Karissa. Ben, do you have any thoughts on this? What would you recommend or do, would you guys be fine with the Chromebook?
Karissa: I like Chromebooks. I thought my first thought, and maybe this is like too out there, but would an iPad Pro fit that fit those requirements? 'cause you can do a lot with an iPad Pro.
You
Devindra: can do a lot that's actually great battery,
Karissa: lightweight, lots of apps. If most everything he's doing is web based, there's. You can probably use iPad apps.
Devindra: That's actually a good point. Karissa you cando a lot with an iPad and iPad Pro does start at around this price too. So it would be much lighter and thinner than a laptop.
Especially if you could do a lot of web stuff. I feel like there are some web things that don't always run well in an iPad form. Safari and iPad doesn't support like everything you'd expect from a web-based site. Like I think if you. There are things we use like we use Video Ninja to record podcasts and that's using web RTC.
Sometimes there are things like zencaster, something you have to use, apps to go use those things because I, iOS, iPad OS is so locked down. Multitasking isn't great on iPad os. But yeah, if you're not actually doing that much and you just want a nice. Media device. An iPad is a good option too. Alright, thank you so much Jake Thompson.
That's a good one too because I wanna hear about people moving on from Chromebooks. 'cause they, send us more emails at podcast@enggadget.com for sure. Let's just skip right past what we're working on 'cause we're all busy. We're all busy with stuff unless you wanna mention anything. Chris, anything you're working on at the moment?
Karissa: The only thing I wanna flag is thatwe are rapidly approaching another TikTok sale or ban. Deadline Yes. Next month.
Speaker: Sure.
Karissa: Been a while since we heard anything about that, but, I'm sure they're hard at work on trying to hammer out this deal.
Ben: Okay. But that's actually more relevant because they just figured out maybe the tariff situation and the tariff was the thing that spoiled the first deal.
So we'll see what happens like at the beginning of July, yeah. I think
Karissa: The deadline's the 19th of June
Ben: oh, at the beginning of June. Sorry.
Karissa: Yeah, so it's. It's pretty close. And yeah, there has been not much that I've heard on that front. So
Devindra: this is where we are. We're just like walking to one broken negotiation after another for the next couple years.
Anything you wanna mention, pop culture related krisa that is taking your mind off of our broken world.
Karissa: So this is a weird one, but I have been, my husband loves Stargate, and we have been for years through, wait, the movie, the TV shows, StargateSG one. Oh
Devindra: God. And I'm yeah. Just on the
Karissa: last few episodes now in the end game portion of that show.
So that has been I spent years like making fun of this and like making fun of him for watching it, but that show's
Devindra: ridiculously bad, but yeah. Yeah.
Karissa: Everything is so bad now that it's, actually just a nice. Yeah. Distraction to just watch something like so silly.
Devindra: That's heartwarming actually, because it is a throwback to when things were simpler. You could just make dumb TV shows and they would last for 24 episodes per season. My for how
Ben: many seasons too,
Devindra: Karissa?
Karissa: 10 seasons.
Devindra: You just go on forever. Yeah. My local or lamb and rice place, my local place that does essentially New York streetcar style food, they placed Arga SG one.
Every time I'm in there and I'm sitting there watching, I was like, how did we survive with this? How did we watch this show? It's because we just didn't have that much. We were desperate for for genre of fiction, but okay, that's heartwarming Krisa. Have you guys done Farscape? No. Have you seen Farscape?
'cause Farscape is very, is a very similar type ofshow, but it has Jim Henson puppets and it has better writing. I love Jim Henson. It's very cool. Okay. It's it's also, it's unlike Stargate. It also dares to be like I don't know, sexy and violent too. Stargate always felt too campy to me. But Farscape was great.
I bought that for On iTunes, so that was a deal. I dunno if that deal is still there, but the entire series plus the the post series stuff is all out there. Shout out to Farscape. Shout out to Stargate SG one Simpler times. I'll just really briefly run down a few things and or season two finished over the last week.
Incredible stuff. As I said in my initial review, it is really cool to people see people watching this thing and just being blown away by it. And I will say the show. Brought me to tears at the end, and I did not expect that. I did not expect that because we know this guy's gonna die. This is, we know his fate and yet it still means so much and it's so well written and the show is a phenomenon.
Chris, I'd recommend it to you when you guys are recovering from Stargate SG one loss and or is fantastic. I also checked out a bit of murderbot theApple TV plus adaptation of the Martha Wells books. It's fine. It is weirdly I would say it is funny and entertaining because Alexander Skarsgard is a fun person to watch in in genre fiction.
But it also feels like this could be funnier, this could be better produced. Like you could be doing more with this material and it feels like just lazy at times too. But it's a fine distraction if you are into like half-baked sci-fi. So I don't know. Another recommendation for Stargate SG one Levers, Karissa Final Destination Bloodlines.
I reviewed over at the film Cast and I love this franchise. It is so cool to see it coming back after 15 years. This movie is incredible. Like this movie is great. If you understand the final destination formula, it's even better because it plays with your expectations of the franchise. I love a horror franchise where there's no, no definable villain.
You're just trying to escape death. There's some great setups here. This is a great time at the movies. Get your popcorn. Just go enjoy the wonderfully creative kills.And shout out to the Zap lapovsky and Adam B. Stein who. Apparently we're listening to my other podcast, and now we're making good movies.
So that's always fun thing to see Mount Destination Bloodlines a much better film. The Mission Impossible, the Final Reckoning. My review of that is on the website now too. You can read that in a gadget.
Ben: Thanks everybody for listening. Our theme music is by Game Composer Dale North. Our outro music is by our former managing editor, Terrence O'Brien. The podcast is produced by me. Ben Elman. You can find Karissa online at
Karissa: Karissa b on threads Blue Sky, and sometimes still X.
Ben: Unfortunately, you can find Dendra online
Devindra: At dendra on Blue Sky and also podcast about movies and TV at the film cast@thefilmcast.com.
Ben: If you really want to, you can find me. At hey bellman on Blue Sky. Email us at podcast@enggadget.com. Leave us a review on iTunes and subscribe on anything that gets podcasts. That includesSpotify.

This article originally appeared on Engadget at
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Engadget Podcast: The AI and XR of Google I/O 2025
Would you believe Google really wants to sell you on its AI? This week, we dive into the news from Google I/O 2025 with Engadget's Karissa Bell. We discuss how Gemini is headed to even more places, as well as Karissa's brief hands-on with Google's prototype XR glasses. It seems like Google is trying a bit harder now than it did with Google Glass and its defunct Daydream VR platform. But will the company end up giving up again, or does it really have a shot against Meta and Apple? Subscribe! iTunes Spotify Pocket Casts Stitcher Google Podcasts Topics Lots of AI and a little XR: Highlights from Google I/O 2025 – 1:15 OpenAI buys Jony Ive’s design company for B, in an all equity deal – 29:27 Fujifilm’s X Half could be the perfect retro camera for the social media age – 39:42 Sesame Street is moving from HBO to Netflix – 44:09 Cuts to IMLS will lead to headaches accessing content on apps like Libby and Hoopla – 45:49 Listener Mail: Should I replace my Chromebook with a Mac or PC Laptop? – 48:33 Pop culture picks – 52:22 Credits Hosts: Devindra Hardawar and Karissa BellProducer: Ben EllmanMusic: Dale North and Terrence O'Brien Transcript Devindra:What's up, internet and welcome back to the Engadget Podcast. I'm Senior Editor Devindra Hardawar. I'm joined this morning by Senior Writer Karissa Bell. Hello, Karissa. Karissa: Hello. Good morning. Devindra: Good morning. And also podcast producer Ben Elman. Hey Ben, I'm muted my dang self. Hello. Hello, Ben. Good morning. It's been a busy week, like it's one of those weeks where. Three major conferences happened all at once and a varying like relevance to us. Google IO is the big one. We'll be talking about that with Karissa who was there and got to demo Google's XR glasses, but also Computex was happening. That's over in Taipei and we got a lot of news from that to, we'll mention some of those things. Also, Microsoft build happened and I feel like this was the less least relevant build to us ever. I got one bit of news I can mention there. That's pretty much it. It's been a crazy hectic week for us over at Eng Gadget. As always, if you're enjoying the show, please be free to subscribe to us on iTunes or your podcast catcher of choice. Leave us a review on iTunes, drop us email at podcast@enggadget.com.Those emails, by the way, if you ask a good question, it could end up being part of our Ask Engadget section, so that's something we're starting out. I have another good one. I'll be throwing to asking Eng gadgets soon. So send us your emails podcast@enggadget.com, Google io. It's all about ai, isn't it? I feel like Karissa, we were watching the keynote for this thing and it felt like it went on and on of the thing about the things, like we all pretty much expect more about Gemini ai, more about their newer models a bit about xr. Can you give me, what's your overall impression of IO at this point? Karissa: Yeah, it's interesting because I've been covering IO long enough that I remember back when it used to be Android. And then there'd be like that little section at the end about, AI and some of the other stuff. And now it's completely reversed where it's entirely AI and basically no Android to the point where they had a whole separate event with their typical Android stuff the week before. So it didn't have to go through and talk about any of yeah, the mobile things. Devindra: That was just like a live stream that was just like a chill, live stream. No realeffort put into it. Whereas this is the whole show. They had a, who was it? But they had TOIs. TOIs, yeah. They had actual music which is something a lot of these folks do at keynotes. It's actually really disconcerting to see cool musicians taking the corporate gig and performing at one of these things. I think, it was like 20 13, 20 14, maybe the Intel one, IDF or something. But the weekend was there. Just trying to jam to all these nerds and it was sad, but yeah. How was the experience Karissa like actually going there? Karissa: Yeah, it was good. That keynote is always kind of a slog. Just, live blogging for our almost two hours straight, just constant is it's a lot. I did like the music. Towa was very chill. It was a nice way to start much. I preferred it over the crazy loop daddy set we got last year. If anyone remembers that. Devindra: Yeah. Ben: Yeah. Oh, I remember that. Mark Rub was at audio. That was so weird. Devindra: Yeah. Yeah, it was a little intense. Cool. So what are some of the highlights? Like there, there's a bunch of stuff. If you go look on, on the site on Engadget, wehave rounded up like all the major news and that includes a couple of things like hey, AI mode, chat bot coming to search. That's cool. We got more, I think the thing a lot of people were looking at was like Project Astra and where that's gonna be going. And that is the sort of universal AI assistant where you could hold your phone up and just ask it questions about the world. We got another demo video about that. Which again, the actual utility of it, I'm weirded out by. There was also one video where they were just like I'm gonna be dumb. I'm gonna pretend I'm very stupid and ask ask Astro, what is this tall building in front of me. And it was like a fire hydrant or something. It was like some piece of street thing. It was not a really well done demo. Do you have any thoughts about that, Krista? Does that seem more compelling to you now or is it the same as what we saw last year? Karissa: I think what was interesting to me about it was that we saw Astro last year and like that, I think there was a lot of excitement around that, but it wasn't really entirely clear where that. Project is going. They've said it's like an experimental research thing. And then, I feel like this year they really laid out that they want tobring all that stuff to Gemini. Astra is sort of their place to like tinker with this and, get all this stuff working. But like their end game is putting this into Gemini. You can already see it a little bit in Gemini Live, which is like their multimodal feature where you can do some. Version of what ASRA can do. And so that was interesting. They're saying, we want Gemini to be this universal AI assistant. They didn't use the word a GI or anything like that. But I think it's pretty clear where they're going and like what their ambition is they want this to be, an all seeing, all knowing AI assistant that can help you with anything is what they're trying to sell it as. Devindra: It is weird, like we're watching the demo video and it's a guy trying to fix his bike and he is pointing his phone at like the bike and asking questions like which, which particular, I don't know. It's which particular nut do I need for this tightening thing and it's giving him good advice. It's pointing to things on YouTube. I. I don't know how useful this will actually be. This kind of goes to part of the stuff we're seeing with AI too, of just like offloadingsome of the grunt work of human intelligence because you can do this right now, people have been YouTubing to fix things forever. YouTube has become this like information repository of just fix it stuff or home plumbing or whatever. And now it's just like you'll be able to talk to your phone. It'll direct you right to those videos or. Extract the actual instructions from those. That's cool. I feel like that's among the more useful things, more useful than like putting Gemini right into Chrome, which is another thing they're talking about, and I don't know how useful that is other than. They wanna push AI in front of us, just like Microsoft wants to push copilot in front of us at all times. Ben: What is a situation where you would have a question about your Chrome tabs? Like I'm not one of those people that has 15 chrome tabs open at any given time, and I know that I am. Yeah, I know. Wait, you're saying that like it's a high. Like it's high. Yeah, no I know. So I have a abnormally low number of chrome tabs open, but can you still come upwith an idea of why you would ask Gemini anything about your own tabs open? Hopefully you have them organized. At least Karissa: they should. A few examples of like online shopping, like maybe you have. Two tabs of two different products open. And you can say Devindra: exactly, Karissa: ask Gemini to like, compare the reviews. Or they use like the example of a recipe video, a recipe blog. And maybe, you wanna make some kind of modification, make the recipe gluten free. And you could ask Gemini Hey, make this how would I make this gluten free? But I think you're right, like it's not exactly clear. You can already just open a new tab and go to Gemini and ask it. Something. So they're just trying to reduce Devindra: friction. I think that's the main thing. Like just the less you have to think about it, the more it's in your face. You can just always always just jump right to it. It's hey, you can Google search from any your UL bar, your location bar in any browser. We've just grown to use that, but that didn't used to be the case. I remember there used to be a separate Google field. Some browsers and it wasn't always there in every browser too. They did announce some new models. Wesaw there's Gemini 2.5 Pro. There's a deep think reasoning model. There's also a flash model that they announced for smaller devices. Did they show any good demos of the reasoning stuff? Because I that's essentially slower AI processing to hopefully get you better answers with fewer flaws. Did they actually show how that worked? Karissa. Karissa: I only saw what we all saw during the keynote and I think it's, we've seen a few other AI companies do something similar where you can see it think like its reasoning process. Yeah. And see it do that in real time. But I think it's a bit unclear exactly what that's gonna look like. Devindra: Watching a video, oh, Gemini can simulate nature simulate light. Simulate puzzles, term images into code. Ben: I feel like the big thing, yeah. A lot of this stuff is from DeepMind, right? This is DeepMind an alphabet company. Devindra: DeepMind and Alphabet company. There is Deep mind. This is deep Think and don't confuse this with deep seek, which is that the Chinese AI company, and theyclearly knew what they were doing when they call it that thing. Deep seek. But no, yeah, that is, this is partially stuff coming out of DeepMind. DeepMind, a company which Google has been like doing stuff with for a while. And we just have not really seen much out of it. So I guess Gemini and all their AI processes are a way to do that. We also saw something that got a lot of people, we saw Ben: Nobel Prize from them. Come on. Devindra: Hey, we did see that. What does that mean? What is that even worth anymore? That's an open question. They also showed off. A new video tool called Flow, which I think got a lot of people intrigued because it's using a new VO three model. So an updated version of what they've had for video effects for a while. And the results look good. Like the video looks higher quality. Humans look more realistic. There have been. The interesting thing about VO three is it can also do synchronized audio to actually produce audio and dialogue for people too. So people have been uploading videos around this stuff online at this point, and you have tosubscribe to the crazy high end. Version of Google's subscription to even test out this thing at this point that is the AI Ultra plan that costs a month. But I saw something of yeah, here's a pretend tour of a make believe car show. And it was just people spouting random facts. So yeah, I like EVs. I would like an ev. And then it looks realistic. They sound synchronized like you could. I think this is a normal person. Then they just kinda start laughing at the end for no reason. Like weird little things. It's if you see a sociopath, try to pretend to be a human for a little bit. There's real Patrick Bateman vibes from a lot of those things, so I don't know. It's fun. It's cool. I think there's, so didn't we Ben: announce that they also had a tool to help you figure out whether or not a video was generated by flow? They did announce that Devindra: too. Ben: I've yeah, go ahead. Go Karissa: ahead. Yeah. The synth id, they've been working on that for a while. They talked about it last year at io. That's like their digital watermarking technology. And the funny thing about this istheir whole, the whole concept of AI watermarking is you put like these like invisible watermarks into AI generated content. You might, you couldn't just. See it, just watching this content. But you can go to this website now and basically like double check. If it has one of these watermarks, which is on one hand it's. I think it's important that they do this work, but I also just wonder how many people are gonna see a video and think I wonder what kind of AI is in this. Let me go to this other website and like double check it like that. Just, Ben: yeah. The people who are most likely to immediately believe it are the, also the least likely to go to the website and be like, I would like to double check Devindra: this. It doesn't matter because most people will not do it and the damage will be done. Just having super hyper realistic, AI video, they can, you can essentially make anything happen. It's funny that the big bad AI bad guy in the new Mission Impossible movies, the entity, one of the main things it does is oh, we don't know what's true anymore because the entity can just cr fabricate reality at whim. We're just doing that.We're just doing that for, I don't know, for fun. I feel like this is a thing we should see in all AI video tools. This doesn't really answer the problem, answer the question that everyone's having though. It's what is the point of these tools? Because it does devalue filmmaking, it devalues people using actual actors or using, going out and actually shooting something. Did Google make a better pitch for why you would use Flow Karissa or how it would fit into like actual filmmaking? Karissa: I'm not sure they did. They showed that goofy Darren Aronofsky trailer for some woman who was trying to like, make a movie about her own birth, and it was like seemed like they was trying to be in the style of some sort of like psychological thriller, but it just, I don't know, it just felt really weird to me. I was I was just like, what are we watching? This doesn't, what are we watching? Yeah. Ben: Was there any like good backstory about why she was doing that either or was it just Hey, we're doing something really weird? Karissa: No, she was just oh I wonder, you know what? I wanna tell the story of my own birth and Okay. Ben:Okay, but why is your relate birth more? Listen its like every, I need more details. Why is your birth more important? It's, everybody wants lots of babies. Write I memoir like one of three ways or something. Devindra: Yeah, it's about everybody who wants to write a memoir. It's kinda the same thing. Kinda that same naval ga thing. The project's just called ancestral. I'm gonna play a bit of a trailer here. I remember seeing this, it reminds me of that footage I dunno if you guys remember seeing, look who's talking for the very first time or something, or those movies where they, they showed a lot of things about how babies are made. And as a kid I was like, how'd they make that, how'd that get done? They're doing that now with AI video and ancestral this whole project. It is kinda sad because Aronofsky is one of my, like one of my favorite directors when he is on, he has made some of my favorite films, but also he's a guy who has admittedly stolen ideas and concepts from people like Satoshi kh as specific framing of scenes and things like that. In Requa for a Dream are in some cones movies as well. SoI guess it's to be expected, but it is. Sad because Hollywood as a whole, the union certainly do not like AI video. There was a story about James Earl Jones' voice being used as Darth Vader. In Fortnite. In Fortnite. In Fortnite, yeah. Which is something we knew was gonna happen because Disney licensed the rights to his voice before he died from his estate. He went in and recorded lines to at least create a better simulation of his voice. But people are going out there making that Darth Vader swear and say bad things in Fortnite and the WGA or is it sag? It's probably sag but sad. Like the unions are pissed off about this because they do not know this was happening ahead of time and they're worried about what this could mean for the future of AI talent. Flow looks interesting. I keep seeing play people play with it. I made a couple videos asked it to make Hey, show me three cats living in Brooklyn with a view of the Manhattan skyline or something. And it, it did that, but the apartment it rendered didn't look fully real.It had like weird heating things all around. And also apparently. If you just subscribe to the basic plan to get access to flow, you can use flow, but that's using the VO two model. So older AI model. To get VO three again, you have to pay a month. So maybe that'll come down in price eventually. But we shall see. The thing I really want to talk with you about Krisa is like, what the heck is happening with Android xr? And that is a weird project for them because I was writing up the news and they announced like a few things. They were like, Hey we have a new developer released to help you build Android XR apps. But it wasn't until the actual a IO show. That they showed off more of what they were actually thinking about. And you got to test out a pair of prototype Google XR glasses powered by Android xr. Can you tell me about that experience and just how does it differ from the other XR things you've seen from who is it from Several, look, you've seen Metas Meta, you saw one from Snap, right? Meta Karissa: I've seen Snap. Yeah. Yeah. I've seen the X reel. Yeah, some of the other smallercompanies I got to see at CES. Yeah, that was like a bit of a surprise. I know that they've been talking about Android XR for a while. I feel like it's been a little, more in the background. So they brought out these, these glasses and, the first thing that I noticed about them was like, they were actually pretty small and like normal looking compared to, met Orion or like the snap spectacles. Like these were very thin which was cool. But the display was only on one side. It was only on one lens. They called it like a monocular display. So there's one lens on one side. So it's basically just like a little window, very small field of view. Devindra: We could see it in, if you go to the picture on top of Chris's hands on piece, you can see the frame out. Of what that lens would be. Yeah. Karissa: Yeah. And I noticed even when we were watching that, that demo video that they did on stage, that like the field of view looked very small. It was even smaller than Snaps, which is 35 degrees like this. I would, if I had to guess, I'd say it's maybe like around 20. They wouldn't say what it was. They said, this is a prototype. We don't wanna say the way I thought about it, the wayI compared it to my piece was like the front screwing on a foldable phone, so it's you can get notifications and you can like glance at things, but it's not fully immersive ar it's not, surrounding your space and like really cha changing your reality, in the way that like snap and and meta are trying to do later when I was driving home, I realized it actually was reminded me like a better comparison might be the heads up display in your car. Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Karissa: If you have a car that has that little hu where you can see how fast you're going and directions and stuff like that. Devindra: That's what Google Glass was doing too, right? Because that was a little thing off to the side of your revision that was never a full takeover. Your vision type of thing. Karissa: Yeah. It's funny, that's what our editor Aaron said when he was editing my piece, he was like, oh, this sounds like Google Glass. And I'm like, no, it actually, it's, it is better than that. These are like normal looking glasses. The, I tried Google Glass many years ago. Like the Fidelity was better. Actually I was thinking. It feels like a happy medium almost between, meta ray bands and like full ar Yeah, like I, I've had a meta ray band glassesfor a long time and people always ask me, like when I show it to someone, they're like, oh, that's so cool. And then they go, but you can see stuff, right? There's a display and I'm like. No. These are just, glasses with the speaker. And I feel like this might be like a good kind of InBetween thing because you have a little bit of display, but they still look like glasses. They're not bulky 'cause they're not trying to do too much. One thing I really liked is that when you take a photo, you actually get a little preview of that image that like floats onto the screen, which was really cool because it's hard to figure out how to frame pictures when you are taking using glasses camera on your smart glasses. So I think there's some interesting ideas, but it's very early. Obviously they want like Gemini to be a big part of it. The Gemini stuff. Was busted in my demo. Devindra: You also said they don't plan on selling these are like purely, hey, this is what could be a thing. But they're not selling these specific glasses, right? Karissa: Yeah, these specific ones are like, this is a research prototype. But they did also announce a partnership with Warby Parker and another glasses company. So I think it's like you can see them trying to take a meta approach here, whichactually would be pretty smart to say let's partner with. A known company that makes glasses, they're already popular. We can give them our, our tech expertise. They can make the glasses look good and, maybe we'll get something down the line. I actually heard a rumor that. Prototype was manufactured by Samsung. They wouldn't say Devindra: Of course it's Sam, Samsung wants to be all over this. Samsung is the one building their the full on Android XR headset, which is a sort of like vision Pro copycat, like it is Mohan. Yeah. Moan. It is displays with the pass through camera. That should be coming later this year. Go ahead Ben. Ben: Yeah. Question for Karissa. When Sergey brand was talking about Google Glass, did that happen before or after the big demo for the Google XR glasses? Karissa: That was after. That was at the end of the day. He was a surprise guest in this fireside chat with the DeepMind, CEO. And yeah, it was, we were all wondering about that. 'cause we all, dev probably remembers this very well the, when Google Glass came out and cereal and skydivewearing them into io. Yeah. Speaker: Yep. Karissa: And then, now for him to come back and say we made a lot of mistakes with that product and. Ben: But was it mistakes or was it just the fact that like technology was not there yet because he was talking about like consumer electronic supply chain, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Devindra: He's right that the tech has caught up with what the vision of what they wanted to do, but also I think he fundamentally misread like people will see you looking like the goddamn borg and want to destroy you. They want you will turn into Captain Picard and be like, I must destroy whoever is wearing Google Glass because this looks like an alien trying to take over my civilization. And the thing that meta did right, that you've seen Karissa, is that make 'em look like normal glasses and Yeah, but nobody will knows, Ben: Karissa does not look entirely human in this picture either. Karissa: Yes. But listen from, if you see 'em straight on, they don't, they look transparent. That was I used that photo because I was trying to. Devindra: You get the angle, show The display. Karissa: Yeah. Devindra:Yeah. There's another one like you. This looks normal. This looks totally normal. The glasses themselves look like, they look like typical hipster glasses. Like they're not like a super big frame around them. You're they look like the arms seem big. The arms seem wider than a typical pair of glasses, but you wouldn't know that 'cause it's covered in your hair. A lot of people won't notice glasses, arms as much. Ben: Yeah, Devindra: that is cool. The issue Ben: still is that all of these frames are so chunky. And it's because you need to hide all of the internals and everything, but you're not gonna get like the beautiful, like thin Japanese like titanium anytime soon. No, because this stuff needs to shrink way more. Devindra: This stuff that's not, those the kind of frames they are. I will say I had a meeting with the one of the I believe the CEO of X reel who. Came not, I did talk to them at c so they, they had like a lot of ideas about that. I talked to the the head of space top, which isthe, that's the company that was doing the sort of AR laptop thing. And then they gave up on that idea because AI PCs have the nmps that they need to do that stuff. And they're all in on the idea that, more people will want to use these sorts of glasses. Maybe not all the time, but for specific use cases. Something that co covers your field of vision more. Could be a great thing when you sit down at your desk. I could see people doing this. I could see people getting these glasses. I don't know if it's gonna be good for society, right? It feels when Bluetooth headsets were first popping up and everybody hated those people, and you're like, oh, we must shun this person from society. This one, you can't quite see the screen. So you can pretend to be a normal human and then have this like augmented ability next to you. If they can hide that, if they can actually hide the fact that you have a display on your glasses that would help people like me who are face blind and I walk around I don't, I know this person. I've seen them before. What is their name? What is their name? I could see that being useful. Ben: On the other side of itthough, if you have one standard look for glasses like this, then you know, oh, this person is, I. Also interacting with like information and stuff that's like popping up in front of their eyes. It's a universal signifier, just like having a big pair of headphones is Devindra: I think you will see people looking off to the distance. Krisa, did you notice that your eye line was moving away from people you were talking to while you were wearing these? Karissa: Yeah, and that was also one of the issues that I had was that the. Actual, like display was like, was it like didn't quite render right? Where I'm not a farsighted person, but I actually had to look farther off in the distance to actually get it to like my eyes to focus on it. And I asked 'em about that and they're like, oh it's a prototype. It's not quite dialed in. They weren't calibrating these things to your eyeballs. Like the way when I did the Meta Orion demo, they have to take these specific measurements because there's eye tracking and all these things and this, didn't have any of that. There. Yeah, there definitely was. You're, somebody's talking to you, but you're looking over here. Devindra: That's not great. That'snot great for society. You're having a conversation with people. I like how they're framing this oh yes, you can be more connected with reality. 'cause you don't have a phone in front of your face, except you always have another display in front of your face, which nobody else can see, and you're gonna look like an alien walking around. They showed some videos of people using it for like street navigation. Which I kinda like. You're in a new city, you'll see the arrows and where to turn and stuff. That's useful. But there is this, there was one that was really overwrought. It was a couple dancing at Sunset, and the guy is take a picture of this beautiful moment of the sun peeking through behind, my lady friend. And it just felt like that's what you wanna do in that moment. You wanna talk to your virtual assistant while you should be enjoying the fact that you are having this beautiful dancing evening, which nobody will ever actually have. So that's the whole thing. I will say my overall thoughts on this stuff, like just looking at this, the stuff they showed before they actually showed us the glasses, it doesn't feel like Google is actually that far in terms of making this a reality. Karissa the, like I'm comparing it to. Where Metais right now, and even where Apple is right now, like when Apple showed us the vision Pro. We were able to sit down and I had a 30 minute demo of that thing working, and I saw the vision of what they were doing and they thought a lot about how this was. How long was your demo with this thing? Karissa: I was in the room with them for about five minutes and I had them on for about three minutes myself. That's not a demo. That's not a demo. Ben: Oh, goodness. So all of these pictures were taken in the same 90 seconds? Yes. Yeah. God. That's amazing. Devindra: It's amazing you were able to capture these impressions, Karissa. Yeah, Karissa: I will say that they did apparently have a demo in December, a press event in December where people got to see these things for a lot longer, but it was, they could not shoot them at all. We, a lot of us were wondering if that was why it was so constrained. They only had one room, there's hundreds of people basically lining up to try these out. And they're like very strict. You got five minutes, somebody's in there like after a couple minutes, rushing you out, and we're like, okay. Like Devindra: They clearly only have a handful of these. That's like the main reason this is happening. I am, this is the company, that did Google Glass and that was tooearly and also maybe too ambitious. But also don't forget, Google Cardboard, which was this that was a fun little project of getting phone-based vr happening. Daydream vr, which was their self-contained headset, which was cool. That was when Samsung was doing the thing with Meta as well, or with Oculus at the time. So and they gave up on those things. Completely. And Google's not a company I trust with consumer Hardaware in general. So I am. Don't think there is a huge future in Android xr, but they wanna be there. They wanna be where Meta is and where Apple is and we shall see. Anything else you wanna add about io, Karissa? Karissa: No, just that AI. A i a ai Devindra: a I didn't AI ao, A IAO a IO starline. The thing that was a, like weird 3D rendering teleconferencing video that is becoming a real thing that's turning to Google Beam video. But it's gonna be an enterprise thing. They're teaming up with AI to, with HP to bring a scaled down version of that two businesses. I don't think we'll love or see That's one of those things where it's oh, this existsin some corporate offices who will pay for this thing, but. I don't, normal people will never interact with this thing, so it practically just does not exist. So we shall see. Anyway, stay tuned for, we're gonna have more demos of the Gemini stuff. We'll be looking at the new models, and certainly Chris and I will be looking hard at Android XR and wherever the heck that's going. Let's quickly move on to other news. And I just wanna say there were other events, Compex, we wrote up a couple, a whole bunch of laptops. A MD announced a cheaper radio on graphics card. Go check out our stories on that stuff. Build. I wrote one, I got a 70 page book of news from Microsoft about build and 99% of that news just does not apply to us because Build is so fully a developer coding conference. Hey, there's more more copilot stuff. There's a copilot app coming to 360fi subscribers, and that's cool, but not super interesting. I would say the big thing that happened this week and that surprised a lot of us is the news that OpenAI has bought. Johnny i's design startup for six and a half billion. Dollars. This is a wild story, which is also paired with a weird picture. It looks like they're getting married. It looks like they're announcing their engagement over here because Johnny, ive is just leaning into him. Their heads are touching a little bit. It's so adorable. You're not showing Ben: the full website though. The full website has like a script font. It literally looks, yeah, like something from the knot. Devindra: It Is it? Yeah. Let's look at here. Sam and Johnny introduced io. This is an extraordinary moment. Computers are now seeing, thinking, understanding, please come to our ceremony at this coffee shop. For some reason, they also yeah, so they produced this coffee shop video to really show this thing off and, it is wild to me. Let me pull this up over here. Ben: While we're doing that. Karissa, what do youhave to say about this? Karissa: I don't, I'm trying to remember, so I know this is Johnny Ives like AI because he also has like the love from, which is still Devindra: this is love from, this is, so he is, let me get the specifics of the deal out here. Yeah. As part of the deal Ive and his design studio love form. Is it love form or love form? Love form. Yeah. Love form are gonna be joining are gonna work independently of open ai. But Scott Cannon Evans Hanky and Ang Tan who co-founded io. This is another io. I hate these. Yeah, so IO is his AI. Karissa: Focused design thing. And then love form is like his design Devindra: studio thing. Karissa: Sure. Yeah. I'm just, he Devindra: has two design things. Karissa: I'm trying to remember what they've done. I remember there was like a story about they made like a really expensive jacket with some weird buttons or something like Devindra: Yep. I do remember that. Karissa: I was just trying to back my brain of what Johnny Iiv has really done in his post Apple life. I feel like we haven't, he's made Devindra: billions of dollars courses. What's happened? Yes.Because he is now still an independent man. Clearly he's an independent contractor, but love like the other side of io. Which includes those folks. They will become open AI employees alongside 50 other engineers, designers, and researchers. They're gonna be working on AI Hardaware. It seems like Johnny, I will come in with like ideas, but he, this is not quite a marriage. He's not quite committing. He's just taking the money and being like, Ew, you can have part of my AI startup for six and a half billion dollars. Ben: Let us know your taxes. It's all equity though, so this is all paper money. Six and a half billion dollars. Of like open AI's like crazy, their crazy valuation who knows how act, how much it's actually going to be worth. But all these people are going to sell a huge chunk of stock as soon as open AI goes public anyway. So it's still gonna be an enormous amount of money. Devindra: Lemme, let me see here, the latest thing. Open OpenAI has raised 57.9 billion of funding over 11 rounds.Good Lord. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, a big chunk of that is going to, to this thing because I think what happened is that Sam Altman wants to, he clearly just wants to be Steve Jobs. I think that's what's happening here. And go, I, all of you go look at the video, the announcement video for this thing, because it is one of the weirdest things I've seen. It is. Johnny I have walking through San Francisco, Sam Altman, walking through San Francisco with his hands in his pockets. There's a whole lot of setup to these guys meeting in a coffee shop, and then they sit there at the coffee shop like normal human beings, and then have an announcement video talking to nobody. They're just talking to the middle of the coffee bar. I don't know who they're addressing. Sometimes they refer to each other and sometimes they refer to camera, but they're never looking at the camera. This is just a really wild thing. Also. Yet, another thing that makes me believe, I don't think Sam Altman is is a real human boy. I think there is actually something robotic about this man, because I can't see him actually perform in real lifewhat they're gonna do. They reference vagaries, that's all. It's, we don't know what exactly is happening. There is a quote. From Johnny Ive, and he says, quote, the responsibility that Sam shares is honestly beyond my comprehension end quote. Responsibility of what? Just building this like giant AI thing. Sam Alman For humanity. Yeah, for humanity. Like just unlocking expertise everywhere. Sam Altman says he is. He has some sort of AI device and it's changed his life. We don't know what it is. We dunno what they're actually working on. They announced nothing here. But Johnny Ive is very happy because he has just made billions of dollars. He's not getting all of that money, but he, I think he's very pleased with this arrangement. And Sam Malman seems pleased that, oh, the guy who who designed the iPhone and the MacBook can now work for me. And Johnny, I also says the work here at Open AI is the best work he's ever done. Sure. You'd say that. Sure. By the way. Karissa: Sure. What do you think Apple thinks about all this? Devindra: Yeah, Karissa: their AIprogram is flailing and like their, star designer who, granted is not, separated from Apple a while ago, but is now teaming up with Sam Altman for some future computing AI Hardaware where like they can't even get AI Siri to work. That must be like a gut punch for folks maybe on the other side of it though. Yeah, I Ben: don't think it's sour grapes to say. Are they going into the like. Friend, like friend isn't even out yet, but like the humane pin? Yes. Or any of the other like AI sidekick sort of things like that has already crashed and burned spectacularly twice. Devindra: I think Apple is, maybe have dodged a bullet here because I, the only reason Johnny and I just working on this thing is because he OpenAI had put some money into left Formm or IO years ago too. So they already had some sort of collaboration and he's just okay, people are interested in the ai. What sort of like beautiful AI device can I buy? The thing is.Johnny Ive unchecked as a designer, leads to maddening things like the magic mouse, the charges from the bottom butterfly Karissa: keyboard, Devindra: any butterfly keyboard. Yeah, that's beautiful, but not exactly functional. I've always worked best when he Johnny, ive always worked best when I. He had the opposing force of somebody like a Steve Jobs who could be like, no, this idea is crazy. Or reign it in or be more functional. Steve Jobs not a great dude in many respects, but the very least, like he was able to hone into product ideas and think about how humans use products a lot. I don't think Johnny, ive on his own can do that. I don't think Sam Altman can do that because this man can barely sit and have a cup of coffee together. Like a human being. So I, whatever this is. I honestly, Chris, I feel like Apple has dodged a bullet because this is jumping into the AI gadget trend. Apple just needs to get the software right, because they have the devices, right? We are wearing, we're wearing Apple watches. People have iPhones, people have MacBooks. What they need to do, solidify the infrastructure the AIsmarts between all those devices. They don't need to go out and sell a whole new device. This just feels like opening AI is a new company and they can try to make an AI device a thing. I don't think it's super compelling, but let us know listeners, if any of this, listen to this chat of them talking about nothing. Unlocking human greatness, unlocking expertise just through ai, through some AI gadget. I don't quite buy it. I think it's kind of garbage, but yeah. Ben: Anything else you guys wanna say about this? This is coming from the same guy who, when he was asked in an interview what college students should study, he said Resilience. Karissa: Yeah. I just think all these companies want. To make the thing that's the next iPhone. Yes. They can all just stop being relying on Apple. It's the thing that Mark Zuckerberg has with all of their like Hardaware projects, which by the way, there was one of the stories said that Johnny I thing has been maybe working on some kind of. Head earbuds with cameras on them, which soundedvery similar to a thing that meta has been rumored about meta for a long time. And and also Apple, Devindra: like there, there were rumors about AirPods with head with Karissa: cameras. Yeah. And everyone's just I think trying to like, make the thing that's like not an iPhone that will replace our iPhones, but good luck to them, good, good Devindra: luck to that because I think that is coming from a fundamentally broken, like it's a broken purpose. The whole reason doing that is just try to outdo the iPhone. I was thinking about this, how many companies like Apple that was printing money with iPods would just be like, Hey we actually have a new thing and this will entirely kill our iPod business. This new thing will destroy the existing business that is working so well for us. Not many companies do that. That's the innovator's dilemma that comes back and bites companies in the butt. That's why Sony held off so long on jumping into flat screen TVs because they were the world's leader in CRTs, in Trinitron, and they're like, we're good. We're good into the nineties. And then they completely lost the TV business. That's why Toyota was so slow to EVs, because they're like, hybrids are good to us. Hybrids are great. We don't need an EV for a very long time. And then they released an EV thatwe, where the wheels fell off. So it comes for everybody. I dunno. I don't believe in these devices. Let's talk about something that could be cool. Something that is a little unrealistic, I think, but, for a certain aesthetic it is cool. Fujifilm announced the X half. Today it is an digital camera with an analog film aesthetic. It shoots in a three by four portrait aspect ratio. That's Inax mini ratio. It looks like an old school Fuji camera. This thing is pretty wild because the screen it's only making those portrait videos. One of the key selling points is that it can replicate some film some things you get from film there's a light leak simulation for when you like Overexpose film A little bit, a ation, and that's something Ben: that Fujifilm is known for. Devindra: Yes. They love that. They love these simulation modes. This is such a social media kid camera, especially for the people who cannot afford the Fuji films, compact cameras.Wow. Even the Ben: screen is do you wanna take some vertical photographs for your social media? Because vertical video has completely won. Devindra: You can't, and it can take video, but it is just, it is a simplistic living little device. It has that, what do you call that? It's that latch that you hit to wind film. It has that, so you can put it into a film photograph mode where you don't see anything on the screen. You have to use the viewfinder. To take pictures and it starts a countdown. You could tell it to do like a film, real number of pictures, and you have to click through to hit, take your next picture. It's the winder, it's, you can wind to the next picture. You can combine two portrait photos together. It's really cool. It's really cute. It's really unrealistic I think for a lot of folks, but. Hey, social media kits like influencers, the people who love to shoot stuff for social media and vertical video. This could be a really cool little device. I don't, what do you guys think about this? Karissa: You know what this reminds me of? Do you remember like in the early Instagram days when there was all theseapps, like hip, systematic where they tried to emulate like film aesthetics? And some of them would do these same things where like you would take the picture but you couldn't see it right away. 'cause it had to develop. And they even had a light leak thing. And I'm like, now we've come full circle where the camera companies are basically like yeah. Taking or like just doing their own. Spin on that, but Devindra: it only took them 15 years to really jump on this trend. But yes, everybody was trying to emulate classic cameras and foodie was like, oh, you want things that cost more but do less. Got it. That's the foodie film X half. And I think this thing will be a huge success. What you're talking about krisa, there is a mode where it's just yeah. You won't see the picture immediately. It has to develop in our app and then you will see it eventually. That's cool honestly, like I love this. I would not, I love it. I would not want it to be my main camera, but I would love to have something like this to play around when you could just be a little creative and pretend to be a street photographer for a little bit. Oh man. This would be huge in Brooklyn. I can just, Ben: Tom Rogers says cute, but stupid tech. I think that'sthe perfect summary. Devindra: But this is, and I would say this compared to the AI thing, which is just like. What is this device? What are you gonna do with it? It feels like a lot of nothing in bakery. Whereas this is a thing you hold, it takes cool pictures and you share it with your friends. It is such a precise thing, even though it's very expensive for what it is. I would say if you're intrigued by this, you can get cheap compact cameras, get used cameras. I only ever buy refurbished cameras. You don't necessarily need this, but, oh man, very, but having a Karissa: Fuji film camera is a status symbol anyway. So I don't know. This is it's eight 50 still seems like a little steep for a little toy camera, basically. But also I'm like I see that. I'm like, Ooh, that looks nice. Devindra: Yeah. It's funny the power shots that kids are into now from like the two thousands those used to cost like 200 to 300 bucks and I thought, oh, that is a big investment in camera. Then I stepped up to the Sony murals, which were like 500 to 600 or so. I'm like, okay, this is a bigger step up than even that. Most people would be better off with amuralist, but also those things are bigger than this tiny little pocket camera. I dunno. I'm really I think it's, I'm enamored with this whole thing. Also briefly in other news we saw that apparently Netflix is the one that is jumping out to save Sesame Street and it's going to, Sesame Street will air on Netflix and PBS simultaneously. That's a good, that's a good thing because there was previously a delay when HBO was in charge. Oh really? Yeah. They would get the new episodes and there was like, I forget how long the delay actually was, but it would be a while before new stuff hit PBS. This is just Hey, I don't love that so much of our entertainment and pop culture it, we are now relying on streamers for everything and the big media companies are just disappointing us, but. This is a good move. I think Sesame Street should stick around, especially with federal funding being killed left and right for public media like this. This is a good thing. Sesame Street is still good. My kids love it. When my son starts leaning into like his Blippy era, I. I justkinda slowly tune that out. Here's some Sesame Street. I got him into PeeWee's Playhouse, which is the original Blippy. I'm like, yes, let's go back to the source. Because Peewee was a good dude. He's really, and that show still holds up. That show is so much fun. Like a great introduction to camp for kids. Great. In introduction to like also. Diverse neighborhoods, just Sesame Street as well. Peewee was, or mr. Rogers was doing Ben: it before. I think everyone, Devindra: Mr. Rogers was doing it really well too. But Peewee was always something special because PeeWee's Wild, Peewee, Lawrence Fishburn was on Peewee. There, there's just a lot of cool stuff happening there. Looking back at it now as an adult, it is a strange thing. To watch, but anyway, great to hear that Sesame Street is back. Another thing, not so quick. Ben: Yeah, let me do this one. Go ahead, if I may. Go ahead. So if you have any trouble getting audio books on Libby or Hoopla or any of the other interlibrary loan systems that you can like access on your phone or iPad any tablet. That'sbecause of the US government because a while ago the Trump administration passed yet another executive order saying that they wanted to cut a bunch of funding to the Institute of Museum and Library Services, the IMLS, and they're the ones who help circulate big quotation marks there just because it's digital files, all of these things from interlibrary loans. So you can, get your audio books that you want. The crazy thing about this is that the IMLS was created in 1996 by a Republican controlled Congress. What's the deal here, guys? There's no waste, fraud and abuse, but if you have problems getting audio books, you can tell a friend or if anybody's complaining about why their, library selection went down. By a lot on Libby recently, now you have the answer. Devindra: It is truly sad. A lot of what's happening is just to reduce access to information because hey, a well-formed population isdangerous to anybody in charge, right? Terrible news. Let's move on to stuff from that's happening around in gadget. I wanna quickly shout out that Sam Rutherford has reviewed the ACEs RG flow Z 13. This is the sort of like surface like device. That's cool. This is the rise in pro Max chip. Sam seems to like it, so that's, it's a cool thing. Not exactly stealthy. He gave it a 79, which is right below. The threshold we have for recommending new products because this thing is expensive. You're paying a lot of money to get, essentially get a gaming tablet. But I tested out cs. It is cool that it actually worked for a certain type of person with too much money and who just needs the lightest gaming thing possible. I could see it being compelling. Let's see, what is the starting price? for a gaming tablet. Sam says it costs the same or more as a comparable RRG Zes G 14 with a real RTX 50 70. That is a great laptop. The RRGs Zes G 14, we have praised that laptop so much. So this is notreally meant for anybody ACEs lifts to do these experiments. They're getting there, they're getting there in terms of creating a gaming tablet, but not quite something I'd recommend for everybody at this point. All right. We have a quick email from a listener too. Thank you for sending this in, Jake Thompson. If you wanna send us an email, e podcast in gadget.com, and again, your emails may head into our Asking Gadget section. Jake asks. He's a real estate agent in need of a new laptop. He uses a Chromebook right now and it meets every need he has. Everything they do is web-based, but should they consider alternatives to a premium com Chromebook for their next computer, he says he doesn't mind spending or more if he can get something lightweight, trustworthy with a solid battery life. What would we consider in the search? I would point to, I immediately point to Jake, to our laptop guides because literally everything we mention, the MacBook Air. The AsisZen book, S 14, even the Dell Xbs 13 would be not much more than that price. I think more useful than a premium Chromebook because I think the idea of a premium Chromebook is a, is insanity. I don't know why you're spending so much money for a thing that can only do web apps, cheap Chromebooks, mid-range Chromebooks fine, or less. Great. But if you're spending that much money and you want something that's more reliable, that you could do more with, even if everything you're doing is web-based, there may be other things you wanna do. MacBook Windows laptop. There is so much more you can unlock there. Little bit, a little bit of gaming, a little bit of media creation. I don't know, Karissa. Ben, do you have any thoughts on this? What would you recommend or do, would you guys be fine with the Chromebook? Karissa: I like Chromebooks. I thought my first thought, and maybe this is like too out there, but would an iPad Pro fit that fit those requirements? 'cause you can do a lot with an iPad Pro. You Devindra: can do a lot that's actually great battery, Karissa: lightweight, lots of apps. If most everything he's doing is web based, there's. You can probably use iPad apps. Devindra: That's actually a good point. Karissa you cando a lot with an iPad and iPad Pro does start at around this price too. So it would be much lighter and thinner than a laptop. Especially if you could do a lot of web stuff. I feel like there are some web things that don't always run well in an iPad form. Safari and iPad doesn't support like everything you'd expect from a web-based site. Like I think if you. There are things we use like we use Video Ninja to record podcasts and that's using web RTC. Sometimes there are things like zencaster, something you have to use, apps to go use those things because I, iOS, iPad OS is so locked down. Multitasking isn't great on iPad os. But yeah, if you're not actually doing that much and you just want a nice. Media device. An iPad is a good option too. Alright, thank you so much Jake Thompson. That's a good one too because I wanna hear about people moving on from Chromebooks. 'cause they, send us more emails at podcast@enggadget.com for sure. Let's just skip right past what we're working on 'cause we're all busy. We're all busy with stuff unless you wanna mention anything. Chris, anything you're working on at the moment? Karissa: The only thing I wanna flag is thatwe are rapidly approaching another TikTok sale or ban. Deadline Yes. Next month. Speaker: Sure. Karissa: Been a while since we heard anything about that, but, I'm sure they're hard at work on trying to hammer out this deal. Ben: Okay. But that's actually more relevant because they just figured out maybe the tariff situation and the tariff was the thing that spoiled the first deal. So we'll see what happens like at the beginning of July, yeah. I think Karissa: The deadline's the 19th of June Ben: oh, at the beginning of June. Sorry. Karissa: Yeah, so it's. It's pretty close. And yeah, there has been not much that I've heard on that front. So Devindra: this is where we are. We're just like walking to one broken negotiation after another for the next couple years. Anything you wanna mention, pop culture related krisa that is taking your mind off of our broken world. Karissa: So this is a weird one, but I have been, my husband loves Stargate, and we have been for years through, wait, the movie, the TV shows, StargateSG one. Oh Devindra: God. And I'm yeah. Just on the Karissa: last few episodes now in the end game portion of that show. So that has been I spent years like making fun of this and like making fun of him for watching it, but that show's Devindra: ridiculously bad, but yeah. Yeah. Karissa: Everything is so bad now that it's, actually just a nice. Yeah. Distraction to just watch something like so silly. Devindra: That's heartwarming actually, because it is a throwback to when things were simpler. You could just make dumb TV shows and they would last for 24 episodes per season. My for how Ben: many seasons too, Devindra: Karissa? Karissa: 10 seasons. Devindra: You just go on forever. Yeah. My local or lamb and rice place, my local place that does essentially New York streetcar style food, they placed Arga SG one. Every time I'm in there and I'm sitting there watching, I was like, how did we survive with this? How did we watch this show? It's because we just didn't have that much. We were desperate for for genre of fiction, but okay, that's heartwarming Krisa. Have you guys done Farscape? No. Have you seen Farscape? 'cause Farscape is very, is a very similar type ofshow, but it has Jim Henson puppets and it has better writing. I love Jim Henson. It's very cool. Okay. It's it's also, it's unlike Stargate. It also dares to be like I don't know, sexy and violent too. Stargate always felt too campy to me. But Farscape was great. I bought that for On iTunes, so that was a deal. I dunno if that deal is still there, but the entire series plus the the post series stuff is all out there. Shout out to Farscape. Shout out to Stargate SG one Simpler times. I'll just really briefly run down a few things and or season two finished over the last week. Incredible stuff. As I said in my initial review, it is really cool to people see people watching this thing and just being blown away by it. And I will say the show. Brought me to tears at the end, and I did not expect that. I did not expect that because we know this guy's gonna die. This is, we know his fate and yet it still means so much and it's so well written and the show is a phenomenon. Chris, I'd recommend it to you when you guys are recovering from Stargate SG one loss and or is fantastic. I also checked out a bit of murderbot theApple TV plus adaptation of the Martha Wells books. It's fine. It is weirdly I would say it is funny and entertaining because Alexander Skarsgard is a fun person to watch in in genre fiction. But it also feels like this could be funnier, this could be better produced. Like you could be doing more with this material and it feels like just lazy at times too. But it's a fine distraction if you are into like half-baked sci-fi. So I don't know. Another recommendation for Stargate SG one Levers, Karissa Final Destination Bloodlines. I reviewed over at the film Cast and I love this franchise. It is so cool to see it coming back after 15 years. This movie is incredible. Like this movie is great. If you understand the final destination formula, it's even better because it plays with your expectations of the franchise. I love a horror franchise where there's no, no definable villain. You're just trying to escape death. There's some great setups here. This is a great time at the movies. Get your popcorn. Just go enjoy the wonderfully creative kills.And shout out to the Zap lapovsky and Adam B. Stein who. Apparently we're listening to my other podcast, and now we're making good movies. So that's always fun thing to see Mount Destination Bloodlines a much better film. The Mission Impossible, the Final Reckoning. My review of that is on the website now too. You can read that in a gadget. Ben: Thanks everybody for listening. Our theme music is by Game Composer Dale North. Our outro music is by our former managing editor, Terrence O'Brien. The podcast is produced by me. Ben Elman. You can find Karissa online at Karissa: Karissa b on threads Blue Sky, and sometimes still X. Ben: Unfortunately, you can find Dendra online Devindra: At dendra on Blue Sky and also podcast about movies and TV at the film cast@thefilmcast.com. Ben: If you really want to, you can find me. At hey bellman on Blue Sky. Email us at podcast@enggadget.com. Leave us a review on iTunes and subscribe on anything that gets podcasts. That includesSpotify. This article originally appeared on Engadget at #engadget #podcast #google

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Engadget Podcast: The AI and XR of Google I/O 2025

Would you believe Google really wants to sell you on its AI? This week, we dive into the news from Google I/O 2025 with Engadget's Karissa Bell. We discuss how Gemini is headed to even more places, as well as Karissa's brief hands-on with Google's prototype XR glasses. It seems like Google is trying a bit harder now than it did with Google Glass and its defunct Daydream VR platform. But will the company end up giving up again, or does it really have a shot against Meta and Apple? Subscribe! iTunes Spotify Pocket Casts Stitcher Google Podcasts Topics Lots of AI and a little XR: Highlights from Google I/O 2025 – 1:15 OpenAI buys Jony Ive’s design company for $6.6B, in an all equity deal – 29:27 Fujifilm’s $850 X Half could be the perfect retro camera for the social media age – 39:42 Sesame Street is moving from HBO to Netflix – 44:09 Cuts to IMLS will lead to headaches accessing content on apps like Libby and Hoopla – 45:49 Listener Mail: Should I replace my Chromebook with a Mac or PC Laptop? – 48:33 Pop culture picks – 52:22 Credits Hosts: Devindra Hardawar and Karissa BellProducer: Ben EllmanMusic: Dale North and Terrence O'Brien Transcript Devindra: [00:00:00] What's up, internet and welcome back to the Engadget Podcast. I'm Senior Editor Devindra Hardawar. I'm joined this morning by Senior Writer Karissa Bell. Hello, Karissa. Karissa: Hello. Good morning. Devindra: Good morning. And also podcast producer Ben Elman. Hey Ben, I'm muted my dang self. Hello. Hello, Ben. Good morning. It's been a busy week, like it's one of those weeks where. Three major conferences happened all at once and a varying like relevance to us. Google IO is the big one. We'll be talking about that with Karissa who was there and got to demo Google's XR glasses, but also Computex was happening. That's over in Taipei and we got a lot of news from that to, we'll mention some of those things. Also, Microsoft build happened and I feel like this was the less least relevant build to us ever. I got one bit of news I can mention there. That's pretty much it. It's been a crazy hectic week for us over at Eng Gadget. As always, if you're enjoying the show, please be free to subscribe to us on iTunes or your podcast catcher of choice. Leave us a review on iTunes, drop us email at podcast@enggadget.com. [00:01:00] Those emails, by the way, if you ask a good question, it could end up being part of our Ask Engadget section, so that's something we're starting out. I have another good one. I'll be throwing to asking Eng gadgets soon. So send us your emails podcast@enggadget.com, Google io. It's all about ai, isn't it? I feel like Karissa, we were watching the keynote for this thing and it felt like it went on and on of the thing about the things, like we all pretty much expect more about Gemini ai, more about their newer models a bit about xr. Can you give me, what's your overall impression of IO at this point? Karissa: Yeah, it's interesting because I've been covering IO long enough that I remember back when it used to be Android. And then there'd be like that little section at the end about, AI and some of the other stuff. And now it's completely reversed where it's entirely AI and basically no Android to the point where they had a whole separate event with their typical Android stuff the week before. So it didn't have to go through and talk about any of yeah, the mobile things. Devindra: That was just like a live stream that was just like a chill, live stream. No real [00:02:00] effort put into it. Whereas this is the whole show. They had a, who was it? But they had TOIs. TOIs, yeah. They had actual music which is something a lot of these folks do at keynotes. It's actually really disconcerting to see cool musicians taking the corporate gig and performing at one of these things. I think, it was like 20 13, 20 14, maybe the Intel one, IDF or something. But the weekend was there. Just trying to jam to all these nerds and it was sad, but yeah. How was the experience Karissa like actually going there? Karissa: Yeah, it was good. That keynote is always kind of a slog. Just, live blogging for our almost two hours straight, just constant is it's a lot. I did like the music. Towa was very chill. It was a nice way to start much. I preferred it over the crazy loop daddy set we got last year. If anyone remembers that. Devindra: Yeah. Ben: Yeah. Oh, I remember that. Mark Rub was at audio. That was so weird. Devindra: Yeah. Yeah, it was a little intense. Cool. So what are some of the highlights? Like there, there's a bunch of stuff. If you go look on, on the site on Engadget, we [00:03:00] have rounded up like all the major news and that includes a couple of things like hey, AI mode, chat bot coming to search. That's cool. We got more, I think the thing a lot of people were looking at was like Project Astra and where that's gonna be going. And that is the sort of universal AI assistant where you could hold your phone up and just ask it questions about the world. We got another demo video about that. Which again, the actual utility of it, I'm weirded out by. There was also one video where they were just like I'm gonna be dumb. I'm gonna pretend I'm very stupid and ask ask Astro, what is this tall building in front of me. And it was like a fire hydrant or something. It was like some piece of street thing. It was not a really well done demo. Do you have any thoughts about that, Krista? Does that seem more compelling to you now or is it the same as what we saw last year? Karissa: I think what was interesting to me about it was that we saw Astro last year and like that, I think there was a lot of excitement around that, but it wasn't really entirely clear where that. Project is going. They've said it's like an experimental research thing. And then, I feel like this year they really laid out that they want to [00:04:00] bring all that stuff to Gemini. Astra is sort of their place to like tinker with this and, get all this stuff working. But like their end game is putting this into Gemini. You can already see it a little bit in Gemini Live, which is like their multimodal feature where you can do some. Version of what ASRA can do. And so that was interesting. They're saying, we want Gemini to be this universal AI assistant. They didn't use the word a GI or anything like that. But I think it's pretty clear where they're going and like what their ambition is they want this to be, an all seeing, all knowing AI assistant that can help you with anything is what they're trying to sell it as. Devindra: It is weird, like we're watching the demo video and it's a guy trying to fix his bike and he is pointing his phone at like the bike and asking questions like which, which particular, I don't know. It's which particular nut do I need for this tightening thing and it's giving him good advice. It's pointing to things on YouTube. I. I don't know how useful this will actually be. This kind of goes to part of the stuff we're seeing with AI too, of just like offloading [00:05:00] some of the grunt work of human intelligence because you can do this right now, people have been YouTubing to fix things forever. YouTube has become this like information repository of just fix it stuff or home plumbing or whatever. And now it's just like you'll be able to talk to your phone. It'll direct you right to those videos or. Extract the actual instructions from those. That's cool. I feel like that's among the more useful things, more useful than like putting Gemini right into Chrome, which is another thing they're talking about, and I don't know how useful that is other than. They wanna push AI in front of us, just like Microsoft wants to push copilot in front of us at all times. Ben: What is a situation where you would have a question about your Chrome tabs? Like I'm not one of those people that has 15 chrome tabs open at any given time, and I know that I am. Yeah, I know. Wait, you're saying that like it's a high. Like it's high. Yeah, no I know. So I have a abnormally low number of chrome tabs open, but can you still come up [00:06:00] with an idea of why you would ask Gemini anything about your own tabs open? Hopefully you have them organized. At least Karissa: they should. A few examples of like online shopping, like maybe you have. Two tabs of two different products open. And you can say Devindra: exactly, Karissa: ask Gemini to like, compare the reviews. Or they use like the example of a recipe video, a recipe blog. And maybe, you wanna make some kind of modification, make the recipe gluten free. And you could ask Gemini Hey, make this how would I make this gluten free? But I think you're right, like it's not exactly clear. You can already just open a new tab and go to Gemini and ask it. Something. So they're just trying to reduce Devindra: friction. I think that's the main thing. Like just the less you have to think about it, the more it's in your face. You can just always always just jump right to it. It's hey, you can Google search from any your UL bar, your location bar in any browser. We've just grown to use that, but that didn't used to be the case. I remember there used to be a separate Google field. Some browsers and it wasn't always there in every browser too. They did announce some new models. We [00:07:00] saw there's Gemini 2.5 Pro. There's a deep think reasoning model. There's also a flash model that they announced for smaller devices. Did they show any good demos of the reasoning stuff? Because I that's essentially slower AI processing to hopefully get you better answers with fewer flaws. Did they actually show how that worked? Karissa. Karissa: I only saw what we all saw during the keynote and I think it's, we've seen a few other AI companies do something similar where you can see it think like its reasoning process. Yeah. And see it do that in real time. But I think it's a bit unclear exactly what that's gonna look like. Devindra: Watching a video, oh, Gemini can simulate nature simulate light. Simulate puzzles, term images into code. Ben: I feel like the big thing, yeah. A lot of this stuff is from DeepMind, right? This is DeepMind an alphabet company. Devindra: DeepMind and Alphabet company. There is Deep mind. This is deep Think and don't confuse this with deep seek, which is that the Chinese AI company, and they [00:08:00] clearly knew what they were doing when they call it that thing. Deep seek. But no, yeah, that is, this is partially stuff coming out of DeepMind. DeepMind, a company which Google has been like doing stuff with for a while. And we just have not really seen much out of it. So I guess Gemini and all their AI processes are a way to do that. We also saw something that got a lot of people, we saw Ben: Nobel Prize from them. Come on. Devindra: Hey, we did see that. What does that mean? What is that even worth anymore? That's an open question. They also showed off. A new video tool called Flow, which I think got a lot of people intrigued because it's using a new VO three model. So an updated version of what they've had for video effects for a while. And the results look good. Like the video looks higher quality. Humans look more realistic. There have been. The interesting thing about VO three is it can also do synchronized audio to actually produce audio and dialogue for people too. So people have been uploading videos around this stuff online at this point, and you have to [00:09:00] subscribe to the crazy high end. Version of Google's subscription to even test out this thing at this point that is the AI Ultra plan that costs $250 a month. But I saw something of yeah, here's a pretend tour of a make believe car show. And it was just people spouting random facts. So yeah, I like EVs. I would like an ev. And then it looks realistic. They sound synchronized like you could. I think this is a normal person. Then they just kinda start laughing at the end for no reason. Like weird little things. It's if you see a sociopath, try to pretend to be a human for a little bit. There's real Patrick Bateman vibes from a lot of those things, so I don't know. It's fun. It's cool. I think there's, so didn't we Ben: announce that they also had a tool to help you figure out whether or not a video was generated by flow? They did announce that Devindra: too. Ben: I've yeah, go ahead. Go Karissa: ahead. Yeah. The synth id, they've been working on that for a while. They talked about it last year at io. That's like their digital watermarking technology. And the funny thing about this is [00:10:00] their whole, the whole concept of AI watermarking is you put like these like invisible watermarks into AI generated content. You might, you couldn't just. See it, just watching this content. But you can go to this website now and basically like double check. If it has one of these watermarks, which is on one hand it's. I think it's important that they do this work, but I also just wonder how many people are gonna see a video and think I wonder what kind of AI is in this. Let me go to this other website and like double check it like that. Just, Ben: yeah. The people who are most likely to immediately believe it are the, also the least likely to go to the website and be like, I would like to double check Devindra: this. It doesn't matter because most people will not do it and the damage will be done. Just having super hyper realistic, AI video, they can, you can essentially make anything happen. It's funny that the big bad AI bad guy in the new Mission Impossible movies, the entity, one of the main things it does is oh, we don't know what's true anymore because the entity can just cr fabricate reality at whim. We're just doing that. [00:11:00] We're just doing that for, I don't know, for fun. I feel like this is a thing we should see in all AI video tools. This doesn't really answer the problem, answer the question that everyone's having though. It's what is the point of these tools? Because it does devalue filmmaking, it devalues people using actual actors or using, going out and actually shooting something. Did Google make a better pitch for why you would use Flow Karissa or how it would fit into like actual filmmaking? Karissa: I'm not sure they did. They showed that goofy Darren Aronofsky trailer for some woman who was trying to like, make a movie about her own birth, and it was like seemed like they was trying to be in the style of some sort of like psychological thriller, but it just, I don't know, it just felt really weird to me. I was I was just like, what are we watching? This doesn't, what are we watching? Yeah. Ben: Was there any like good backstory about why she was doing that either or was it just Hey, we're doing something really weird? Karissa: No, she was just oh I wonder, you know what? I wanna tell the story of my own birth and Okay. Ben: [00:12:00] Okay, but why is your relate birth more? Listen its like every, I need more details. Why is your birth more important? It's, everybody wants lots of babies. Write I memoir like one of three ways or something. Devindra: Yeah, it's about everybody who wants to write a memoir. It's kinda the same thing. Kinda that same naval ga thing. The project's just called ancestral. I'm gonna play a bit of a trailer here. I remember seeing this, it reminds me of that footage I dunno if you guys remember seeing, look who's talking for the very first time or something, or those movies where they, they showed a lot of things about how babies are made. And as a kid I was like, how'd they make that, how'd that get done? They're doing that now with AI video and ancestral this whole project. It is kinda sad because Aronofsky is one of my, like one of my favorite directors when he is on, he has made some of my favorite films, but also he's a guy who has admittedly stolen ideas and concepts from people like Satoshi kh as specific framing of scenes and things like that. In Requa for a Dream are in some cones movies as well. So [00:13:00] I guess it's to be expected, but it is. Sad because Hollywood as a whole, the union certainly do not like AI video. There was a story about James Earl Jones' voice being used as Darth Vader. In Fortnite. In Fortnite. In Fortnite, yeah. Which is something we knew was gonna happen because Disney licensed the rights to his voice before he died from his estate. He went in and recorded lines to at least create a better simulation of his voice. But people are going out there making that Darth Vader swear and say bad things in Fortnite and the WGA or is it sag? It's probably sag but sad. Like the unions are pissed off about this because they do not know this was happening ahead of time and they're worried about what this could mean for the future of AI talent. Flow looks interesting. I keep seeing play people play with it. I made a couple videos asked it to make Hey, show me three cats living in Brooklyn with a view of the Manhattan skyline or something. And it, it did that, but the apartment it rendered didn't look fully real. [00:14:00] It had like weird heating things all around. And also apparently. If you just subscribe to the basic plan to get access to flow, you can use flow, but that's using the VO two model. So older AI model. To get VO three again, you have to pay $250 a month. So maybe that'll come down in price eventually. But we shall see. The thing I really want to talk with you about Krisa is like, what the heck is happening with Android xr? And that is a weird project for them because I was writing up the news and they announced like a few things. They were like, Hey we have a new developer released to help you build Android XR apps. But it wasn't until the actual a IO show. That they showed off more of what they were actually thinking about. And you got to test out a pair of prototype Google XR glasses powered by Android xr. Can you tell me about that experience and just how does it differ from the other XR things you've seen from who is it from Several, look, you've seen Metas Meta, you saw one from Snap, right? Meta Karissa: I've seen Snap. Yeah. Yeah. I've seen the X reel. Yeah, some of the other smaller [00:15:00] companies I got to see at CES. Yeah, that was like a bit of a surprise. I know that they've been talking about Android XR for a while. I feel like it's been a little, more in the background. So they brought out these, these glasses and, the first thing that I noticed about them was like, they were actually pretty small and like normal looking compared to, met Orion or like the snap spectacles. Like these were very thin which was cool. But the display was only on one side. It was only on one lens. They called it like a monocular display. So there's one lens on one side. So it's basically just like a little window, very small field of view. Devindra: We could see it in, if you go to the picture on top of Chris's hands on piece, you can see the frame out. Of what that lens would be. Yeah. Karissa: Yeah. And I noticed even when we were watching that, that demo video that they did on stage, that like the field of view looked very small. It was even smaller than Snaps, which is 35 degrees like this. I would, if I had to guess, I'd say it's maybe like around 20. They wouldn't say what it was. They said, this is a prototype. We don't wanna say the way I thought about it, the way [00:16:00] I compared it to my piece was like the front screwing on a foldable phone, so it's you can get notifications and you can like glance at things, but it's not fully immersive ar it's not, surrounding your space and like really cha changing your reality, in the way that like snap and and meta are trying to do later when I was driving home, I realized it actually was reminded me like a better comparison might be the heads up display in your car. Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. Karissa: If you have a car that has that little hu where you can see how fast you're going and directions and stuff like that. Devindra: That's what Google Glass was doing too, right? Because that was a little thing off to the side of your revision that was never a full takeover. Your vision type of thing. Karissa: Yeah. It's funny, that's what our editor Aaron said when he was editing my piece, he was like, oh, this sounds like Google Glass. And I'm like, no, it actually, it's, it is better than that. These are like normal looking glasses. The, I tried Google Glass many years ago. Like the Fidelity was better. Actually I was thinking. It feels like a happy medium almost between, meta ray bands and like full ar Yeah, like I, I've had a meta ray band glasses [00:17:00] for a long time and people always ask me, like when I show it to someone, they're like, oh, that's so cool. And then they go, but you can see stuff, right? There's a display and I'm like. No. These are just, glasses with the speaker. And I feel like this might be like a good kind of InBetween thing because you have a little bit of display, but they still look like glasses. They're not bulky 'cause they're not trying to do too much. One thing I really liked is that when you take a photo, you actually get a little preview of that image that like floats onto the screen, which was really cool because it's hard to figure out how to frame pictures when you are taking using glasses camera on your smart glasses. So I think there's some interesting ideas, but it's very early. Obviously they want like Gemini to be a big part of it. The Gemini stuff. Was busted in my demo. Devindra: You also said they don't plan on selling these are like purely, hey, this is what could be a thing. But they're not selling these specific glasses, right? Karissa: Yeah, these specific ones are like, this is a research prototype. But they did also announce a partnership with Warby Parker and another glasses company. So I think it's like you can see them trying to take a meta approach here, which [00:18:00] actually would be pretty smart to say let's partner with. A known company that makes glasses, they're already popular. We can give them our, our tech expertise. They can make the glasses look good and, maybe we'll get something down the line. I actually heard a rumor that. Prototype was manufactured by Samsung. They wouldn't say Devindra: Of course it's Sam, Samsung wants to be all over this. Samsung is the one building their the full on Android XR headset, which is a sort of like vision Pro copycat, like it is Mohan. Yeah. Moan. It is displays with the pass through camera. That should be coming later this year. Go ahead Ben. Ben: Yeah. Question for Karissa. When Sergey brand was talking about Google Glass, did that happen before or after the big demo for the Google XR glasses? Karissa: That was after. That was at the end of the day. He was a surprise guest in this fireside chat with the DeepMind, CEO. And yeah, it was, we were all wondering about that. 'cause we all, dev probably remembers this very well the, when Google Glass came out and cereal and skydive [00:19:00] wearing them into io. Yeah. Speaker: Yep. Karissa: And then, now for him to come back and say we made a lot of mistakes with that product and. Ben: But was it mistakes or was it just the fact that like technology was not there yet because he was talking about like consumer electronic supply chain, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Devindra: He's right that the tech has caught up with what the vision of what they wanted to do, but also I think he fundamentally misread like people will see you looking like the goddamn borg and want to destroy you. They want you will turn into Captain Picard and be like, I must destroy whoever is wearing Google Glass because this looks like an alien trying to take over my civilization. And the thing that meta did right, that you've seen Karissa, is that make 'em look like normal glasses and Yeah, but nobody will knows, Ben: Karissa does not look entirely human in this picture either. Karissa: Yes. But listen from, if you see 'em straight on, they don't, they look transparent. That was I used that photo because I was trying to. Devindra: You get the angle, show The display. Karissa: Yeah. Devindra: [00:20:00] Yeah. There's another one like you. This looks normal. This looks totally normal. The glasses themselves look like, they look like typical hipster glasses. Like they're not like a super big frame around them. You're they look like the arms seem big. The arms seem wider than a typical pair of glasses, but you wouldn't know that 'cause it's covered in your hair. A lot of people won't notice glasses, arms as much. Ben: Yeah, Devindra: that is cool. The issue Ben: still is that all of these frames are so chunky. And it's because you need to hide all of the internals and everything, but you're not gonna get like the beautiful, like thin Japanese like titanium anytime soon. No, because this stuff needs to shrink way more. Devindra: This stuff that's not, those the kind of frames they are. I will say I had a meeting with the one of the I believe the CEO of X reel who. Came not, I did talk to them at c so they, they had like a lot of ideas about that. I talked to the the head of space top, which is [00:21:00] the, that's the company that was doing the sort of AR laptop thing. And then they gave up on that idea because AI PCs have the nmps that they need to do that stuff. And they're all in on the idea that, more people will want to use these sorts of glasses. Maybe not all the time, but for specific use cases. Something that co covers your field of vision more. Could be a great thing when you sit down at your desk. I could see people doing this. I could see people getting these glasses. I don't know if it's gonna be good for society, right? It feels when Bluetooth headsets were first popping up and everybody hated those people, and you're like, oh, we must shun this person from society. This one, you can't quite see the screen. So you can pretend to be a normal human and then have this like augmented ability next to you. If they can hide that, if they can actually hide the fact that you have a display on your glasses that would help people like me who are face blind and I walk around I don't, I know this person. I've seen them before. What is their name? What is their name? I could see that being useful. Ben: On the other side of it [00:22:00] though, if you have one standard look for glasses like this, then you know, oh, this person is, I. Also interacting with like information and stuff that's like popping up in front of their eyes. It's a universal signifier, just like having a big pair of headphones is Devindra: I think you will see people looking off to the distance. Krisa, did you notice that your eye line was moving away from people you were talking to while you were wearing these? Karissa: Yeah, and that was also one of the issues that I had was that the. Actual, like display was like, was it like didn't quite render right? Where I'm not a farsighted person, but I actually had to look farther off in the distance to actually get it to like my eyes to focus on it. And I asked 'em about that and they're like, oh it's a prototype. It's not quite dialed in. They weren't calibrating these things to your eyeballs. Like the way when I did the Meta Orion demo, they have to take these specific measurements because there's eye tracking and all these things and this, didn't have any of that. There. Yeah, there definitely was. You're, somebody's talking to you, but you're looking over here. Devindra: That's not great. That's [00:23:00] not great for society. You're having a conversation with people. I like how they're framing this oh yes, you can be more connected with reality. 'cause you don't have a phone in front of your face, except you always have another display in front of your face, which nobody else can see, and you're gonna look like an alien walking around. They showed some videos of people using it for like street navigation. Which I kinda like. You're in a new city, you'll see the arrows and where to turn and stuff. That's useful. But there is this, there was one that was really overwrought. It was a couple dancing at Sunset, and the guy is take a picture of this beautiful moment of the sun peeking through behind, my lady friend. And it just felt like that's what you wanna do in that moment. You wanna talk to your virtual assistant while you should be enjoying the fact that you are having this beautiful dancing evening, which nobody will ever actually have. So that's the whole thing. I will say my overall thoughts on this stuff, like just looking at this, the stuff they showed before they actually showed us the glasses, it doesn't feel like Google is actually that far in terms of making this a reality. Karissa the, like I'm comparing it to. Where Meta [00:24:00] is right now, and even where Apple is right now, like when Apple showed us the vision Pro. We were able to sit down and I had a 30 minute demo of that thing working, and I saw the vision of what they were doing and they thought a lot about how this was. How long was your demo with this thing? Karissa: I was in the room with them for about five minutes and I had them on for about three minutes myself. That's not a demo. That's not a demo. Ben: Oh, goodness. So all of these pictures were taken in the same 90 seconds? Yes. Yeah. God. That's amazing. Devindra: It's amazing you were able to capture these impressions, Karissa. Yeah, Karissa: I will say that they did apparently have a demo in December, a press event in December where people got to see these things for a lot longer, but it was, they could not shoot them at all. We, a lot of us were wondering if that was why it was so constrained. They only had one room, there's hundreds of people basically lining up to try these out. And they're like very strict. You got five minutes, somebody's in there like after a couple minutes, rushing you out, and we're like, okay. Like Devindra: They clearly only have a handful of these. That's like the main reason this is happening. I am, this is the company, that did Google Glass and that was too [00:25:00] early and also maybe too ambitious. But also don't forget, Google Cardboard, which was this that was a fun little project of getting phone-based vr happening. Daydream vr, which was their self-contained headset, which was cool. That was when Samsung was doing the thing with Meta as well, or with Oculus at the time. So and they gave up on those things. Completely. And Google's not a company I trust with consumer Hardaware in general. So I am. Don't think there is a huge future in Android xr, but they wanna be there. They wanna be where Meta is and where Apple is and we shall see. Anything else you wanna add about io, Karissa? Karissa: No, just that AI. A i a ai Devindra: a I didn't AI ao, A IAO a IO starline. The thing that was a, like weird 3D rendering teleconferencing video that is becoming a real thing that's turning to Google Beam video. But it's gonna be an enterprise thing. They're teaming up with AI to, with HP to bring a scaled down version of that two businesses. I don't think we'll love or see That's one of those things where it's oh, this exists [00:26:00] in some corporate offices who will pay $50,000 for this thing, but. I don't, normal people will never interact with this thing, so it practically just does not exist. So we shall see. Anyway, stay tuned for, we're gonna have more demos of the Gemini stuff. We'll be looking at the new models, and certainly Chris and I will be looking hard at Android XR and wherever the heck that's going. Let's quickly move on to other news. And I just wanna say there were other events, Compex, we wrote up a couple, a whole bunch of laptops. A MD announced a cheaper radio on graphics card. Go check out our stories on that stuff. Build. I wrote one, I got a 70 page book of news from Microsoft about build and 99% of that news just does not apply to us because Build is so fully a developer coding conference. Hey, there's more more copilot stuff. There's a copilot app coming to 360 [00:27:00] fi subscribers, and that's cool, but not super interesting. I would say the big thing that happened this week and that surprised a lot of us is the news that OpenAI has bought. Johnny i's design startup for six and a half billion. Dollars. This is a wild story, which is also paired with a weird picture. It looks like they're getting married. It looks like they're announcing their engagement over here because Johnny, ive is just leaning into him. Their heads are touching a little bit. It's so adorable. You're not showing Ben: the full website though. The full website has like a script font. It literally looks, yeah, like something from the knot. Devindra: It Is it? Yeah. Let's look at here. Sam and Johnny introduced io. This is an extraordinary moment. Computers are now seeing, thinking, understanding, please come to our ceremony at this coffee shop. For some reason, they also yeah, so they produced this coffee shop video to really show this thing off and, it is wild to me. Let me pull this up over here. Ben: While we're doing that. Karissa, what do you [00:28:00] have to say about this? Karissa: I don't, I'm trying to remember, so I know this is Johnny Ives like AI because he also has like the love from, which is still Devindra: this is love from, this is, so he is, let me get the specifics of the deal out here. Yeah. As part of the deal Ive and his design studio love form. Is it love form or love form? Love form. Yeah. Love form are gonna be joining are gonna work independently of open ai. But Scott Cannon Evans Hanky and Ang Tan who co-founded io. This is another io. I hate these. Yeah, so IO is his AI. Karissa: Focused design thing. And then love form is like his design Devindra: studio thing. Karissa: Sure. Yeah. I'm just, he Devindra: has two design things. Karissa: I'm trying to remember what they've done. I remember there was like a story about they made like a really expensive jacket with some weird buttons or something like Devindra: Yep. I do remember that. Karissa: I was just trying to back my brain of what Johnny Iiv has really done in his post Apple life. I feel like we haven't, he's made Devindra: billions of dollars courses. What's happened? Yes. [00:29:00] Because he is now still an independent man. Clearly he's an independent contractor, but love like the other side of io. Which includes those folks. They will become open AI employees alongside 50 other engineers, designers, and researchers. They're gonna be working on AI Hardaware. It seems like Johnny, I will come in with like ideas, but he, this is not quite a marriage. He's not quite committing. He's just taking the money and being like, Ew, you can have part of my AI startup for six and a half billion dollars. Ben: Let us know your taxes. It's all equity though, so this is all paper money. Six and a half billion dollars. Of like open AI's like crazy, their crazy valuation who knows how act, how much it's actually going to be worth. But all these people are going to sell a huge chunk of stock as soon as open AI goes public anyway. So it's still gonna be an enormous amount of money. Devindra: Lemme, let me see here, the latest thing. Open OpenAI has raised 57.9 billion of funding over 11 rounds. [00:30:00] Good Lord. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, a big chunk of that is going to, to this thing because I think what happened is that Sam Altman wants to, he clearly just wants to be Steve Jobs. I think that's what's happening here. And go, I, all of you go look at the video, the announcement video for this thing, because it is one of the weirdest things I've seen. It is. Johnny I have walking through San Francisco, Sam Altman, walking through San Francisco with his hands in his pockets. There's a whole lot of setup to these guys meeting in a coffee shop, and then they sit there at the coffee shop like normal human beings, and then have an announcement video talking to nobody. They're just talking to the middle of the coffee bar. I don't know who they're addressing. Sometimes they refer to each other and sometimes they refer to camera, but they're never looking at the camera. This is just a really wild thing. Also. Yet, another thing that makes me believe, I don't think Sam Altman is is a real human boy. I think there is actually something robotic about this man, because I can't see him actually perform in real life [00:31:00] what they're gonna do. They reference vagaries, that's all. It's, we don't know what exactly is happening. There is a quote. From Johnny Ive, and he says, quote, the responsibility that Sam shares is honestly beyond my comprehension end quote. Responsibility of what? Just building this like giant AI thing. Sam Alman For humanity. Yeah, for humanity. Like just unlocking expertise everywhere. Sam Altman says he is. He has some sort of AI device and it's changed his life. We don't know what it is. We dunno what they're actually working on. They announced nothing here. But Johnny Ive is very happy because he has just made billions of dollars. He's not getting all of that money, but he, I think he's very pleased with this arrangement. And Sam Malman seems pleased that, oh, the guy who who designed the iPhone and the MacBook can now work for me. And Johnny, I also says the work here at Open AI is the best work he's ever done. Sure. You'd say that. Sure. By the way. Karissa: Sure. What do you think Apple thinks about all this? Devindra: Yeah, Karissa: their AI [00:32:00] program is flailing and like their, star designer who, granted is not, separated from Apple a while ago, but is now teaming up with Sam Altman for some future computing AI Hardaware where like they can't even get AI Siri to work. That must be like a gut punch for folks maybe on the other side of it though. Yeah, I Ben: don't think it's sour grapes to say. Are they going into the like. Friend, like friend isn't even out yet, but like the humane pin? Yes. Or any of the other like AI sidekick sort of things like that has already crashed and burned spectacularly twice. Devindra: I think Apple is, maybe have dodged a bullet here because I, the only reason Johnny and I just working on this thing is because he OpenAI had put some money into left Formm or IO years ago too. So they already had some sort of collaboration and he's just okay, people are interested in the ai. What sort of like beautiful AI device can I buy? The thing is. [00:33:00] Johnny Ive unchecked as a designer, leads to maddening things like the magic mouse, the charges from the bottom butterfly Karissa: keyboard, Devindra: any butterfly keyboard. Yeah, that's beautiful, but not exactly functional. I've always worked best when he Johnny, ive always worked best when I. He had the opposing force of somebody like a Steve Jobs who could be like, no, this idea is crazy. Or reign it in or be more functional. Steve Jobs not a great dude in many respects, but the very least, like he was able to hone into product ideas and think about how humans use products a lot. I don't think Johnny, ive on his own can do that. I don't think Sam Altman can do that because this man can barely sit and have a cup of coffee together. Like a human being. So I, whatever this is. I honestly, Chris, I feel like Apple has dodged a bullet because this is jumping into the AI gadget trend. Apple just needs to get the software right, because they have the devices, right? We are wearing, we're wearing Apple watches. People have iPhones, people have MacBooks. What they need to do, solidify the infrastructure the AI [00:34:00] smarts between all those devices. They don't need to go out and sell a whole new device. This just feels like opening AI is a new company and they can try to make an AI device a thing. I don't think it's super compelling, but let us know listeners, if any of this, listen to this chat of them talking about nothing. Unlocking human greatness, unlocking expertise just through ai, through some AI gadget. I don't quite buy it. I think it's kind of garbage, but yeah. Ben: Anything else you guys wanna say about this? This is coming from the same guy who, when he was asked in an interview what college students should study, he said Resilience. Karissa: Yeah. I just think all these companies want. To make the thing that's the next iPhone. Yes. They can all just stop being relying on Apple. It's the thing that Mark Zuckerberg has with all of their like Hardaware projects, which by the way, there was one of the stories said that Johnny I thing has been maybe working on some kind of. Head earbuds with cameras on them, which sounded [00:35:00] very similar to a thing that meta has been rumored about meta for a long time. And and also Apple, Devindra: like there, there were rumors about AirPods with head with Karissa: cameras. Yeah. And everyone's just I think trying to like, make the thing that's like not an iPhone that will replace our iPhones, but good luck to them, good, good Devindra: luck to that because I think that is coming from a fundamentally broken, like it's a broken purpose. The whole reason doing that is just try to outdo the iPhone. I was thinking about this, how many companies like Apple that was printing money with iPods would just be like, Hey we actually have a new thing and this will entirely kill our iPod business. This new thing will destroy the existing business that is working so well for us. Not many companies do that. That's the innovator's dilemma that comes back and bites companies in the butt. That's why Sony held off so long on jumping into flat screen TVs because they were the world's leader in CRTs, in Trinitron, and they're like, we're good. We're good into the nineties. And then they completely lost the TV business. That's why Toyota was so slow to EVs, because they're like, hybrids are good to us. Hybrids are great. We don't need an EV for a very long time. And then they released an EV that [00:36:00] we, where the wheels fell off. So it comes for everybody. I dunno. I don't believe in these devices. Let's talk about something that could be cool. Something that is a little unrealistic, I think, but, for a certain aesthetic it is cool. Fujifilm announced the X half. Today it is an $850 digital camera with an analog film aesthetic. It shoots in a three by four portrait aspect ratio. That's Inax mini ratio. It looks like an old school Fuji camera. This thing is pretty wild because the screen it's only making those portrait videos. One of the key selling points is that it can replicate some film some things you get from film there's a light leak simulation for when you like Overexpose film A little bit, a ation, and that's something Ben: that Fujifilm is known for. Devindra: Yes. They love that. They love these simulation modes. This is such a social media kid camera, especially for the people who cannot afford the $2,000 Fuji films, compact cameras. [00:37:00] Wow. Even the Ben: screen is do you wanna take some vertical photographs for your social media? Because vertical video has completely won. Devindra: You can't, and it can take video, but it is just, it is a simplistic living little device. It has that, what do you call that? It's that latch that you hit to wind film. It has that, so you can put it into a film photograph mode where you don't see anything on the screen. You have to use the viewfinder. To take pictures and it starts a countdown. You could tell it to do like a film, real number of pictures, and you have to click through to hit, take your next picture. It's the winder, it's, you can wind to the next picture. You can combine two portrait photos together. It's really cool. It's really cute. It's really unrealistic I think for a lot of folks, but. Hey, social media kits like influencers, the people who love to shoot stuff for social media and vertical video. This could be a really cool little device. I don't, what do you guys think about this? Karissa: You know what this reminds me of? Do you remember like in the early Instagram days when there was all these [00:38:00] apps, like hip, systematic where they tried to emulate like film aesthetics? And some of them would do these same things where like you would take the picture but you couldn't see it right away. 'cause it had to develop. And they even had a light leak thing. And I'm like, now we've come full circle where the camera companies are basically like yeah. Taking or like just doing their own. Spin on that, but Devindra: it only took them 15 years to really jump on this trend. But yes, everybody was trying to emulate classic cameras and foodie was like, oh, you want things that cost more but do less. Got it. That's the foodie film X half. And I think this thing will be a huge success. What you're talking about krisa, there is a mode where it's just yeah. You won't see the picture immediately. It has to develop in our app and then you will see it eventually. That's cool honestly, like I love this. I would not, I love it. I would not want it to be my main camera, but I would love to have something like this to play around when you could just be a little creative and pretend to be a street photographer for a little bit. Oh man. This would be huge in Brooklyn. I can just, Ben: Tom Rogers says cute, but stupid tech. I think that's [00:39:00] the perfect summary. Devindra: But this is, and I would say this compared to the AI thing, which is just like. What is this device? What are you gonna do with it? It feels like a lot of nothing in bakery. Whereas this is a thing you hold, it takes cool pictures and you share it with your friends. It is such a precise thing, even though it's very expensive for what it is. I would say if you're intrigued by this, you can get cheap compact cameras, get used cameras. I only ever buy refurbished cameras. You don't necessarily need this, but, oh man, very, but having a Karissa: Fuji film camera is a status symbol anyway. So I don't know. This is it's eight 50 still seems like a little steep for a little toy camera, basically. But also I'm like I see that. I'm like, Ooh, that looks nice. Devindra: Yeah. It's funny the power shots that kids are into now from like the two thousands those used to cost like 200 to 300 bucks and I thought, oh, that is a big investment in camera. Then I stepped up to the Sony murals, which were like 500 to 600 or so. I'm like, okay, this is a bigger step up than even that. Most people would be better off with a [00:40:00] muralist, but also those things are bigger than this tiny little pocket camera. I dunno. I'm really I think it's, I'm enamored with this whole thing. Also briefly in other news we saw that apparently Netflix is the one that is jumping out to save Sesame Street and it's going to, Sesame Street will air on Netflix and PBS simultaneously. That's a good, that's a good thing because there was previously a delay when HBO was in charge. Oh really? Yeah. They would get the new episodes and there was like, I forget how long the delay actually was, but it would be a while before new stuff hit PBS. This is just Hey, I don't love that so much of our entertainment and pop culture it, we are now relying on streamers for everything and the big media companies are just disappointing us, but. This is a good move. I think Sesame Street should stick around, especially with federal funding being killed left and right for public media like this. This is a good thing. Sesame Street is still good. My kids love it. When my son starts leaning into like his Blippy era, I. I just [00:41:00] kinda slowly tune that out. Here's some Sesame Street. I got him into PeeWee's Playhouse, which is the original Blippy. I'm like, yes, let's go back to the source. Because Peewee was a good dude. He's really, and that show still holds up. That show is so much fun. Like a great introduction to camp for kids. Great. In introduction to like also. Diverse neighborhoods, just Sesame Street as well. Peewee was, or mr. Rogers was doing Ben: it before. I think everyone, Devindra: Mr. Rogers was doing it really well too. But Peewee was always something special because PeeWee's Wild, Peewee, Lawrence Fishburn was on Peewee. There, there's just a lot of cool stuff happening there. Looking back at it now as an adult, it is a strange thing. To watch, but anyway, great to hear that Sesame Street is back. Another thing, not so quick. Ben: Yeah, let me do this one. Go ahead, if I may. Go ahead. So if you have any trouble getting audio books on Libby or Hoopla or any of the other interlibrary loan systems that you can like access on your phone or iPad any tablet. That's [00:42:00] because of the US government because a while ago the Trump administration passed yet another executive order saying that they wanted to cut a bunch of funding to the Institute of Museum and Library Services, the IMLS, and they're the ones who help circulate big quotation marks there just because it's digital files, all of these things from interlibrary loans. So you can, get your audio books that you want. The crazy thing about this is that the IMLS was created in 1996 by a Republican controlled Congress. What's the deal here, guys? There's no waste, fraud and abuse, but if you have problems getting audio books, you can tell a friend or if anybody's complaining about why their, library selection went down. By a lot on Libby recently, now you have the answer. Devindra: It is truly sad. A lot of what's happening is just to reduce access to information because hey, a well-formed population is [00:43:00] dangerous to anybody in charge, right? Terrible news. Let's move on to stuff from that's happening around in gadget. I wanna quickly shout out that Sam Rutherford has reviewed the ACEs RG flow Z 13. This is the sort of like surface like device. That's cool. This is the rise in pro Max chip. Sam seems to like it, so that's, it's a cool thing. Not exactly stealthy. He gave it a 79, which is right below. The threshold we have for recommending new products because this thing is expensive. You're paying a lot of money to get, essentially get a gaming tablet. But I tested out cs. It is cool that it actually worked for a certain type of person with too much money and who just needs the lightest gaming thing possible. I could see it being compelling. Let's see, what is the starting price? $2,100. $2,100 for a gaming tablet. Sam says it costs the same or more as a comparable RRG Zes G 14 with a real RTX 50 70. That is a great laptop. The RRGs Zes G 14, we have praised that laptop so much. So this is not [00:44:00] really meant for anybody ACEs lifts to do these experiments. They're getting there, they're getting there in terms of creating a gaming tablet, but not quite something I'd recommend for everybody at this point. All right. We have a quick email from a listener too. Thank you for sending this in, Jake Thompson. If you wanna send us an email, e podcast in gadget.com, and again, your emails may head into our Asking Gadget section. Jake asks. He's a real estate agent in need of a new laptop. He uses a Chromebook right now and it meets every need he has. Everything they do is web-based, but should they consider alternatives to a premium com Chromebook for their next computer, he says he doesn't mind spending $750 or more if he can get something lightweight, trustworthy with a solid battery life. What would we consider in the search? I would point to, I immediately point to Jake, to our laptop guides because literally everything we mention, the MacBook Air. The Asis [00:45:00] Zen book, S 14, even the Dell Xbs 13 would be not much more than that price. I think more useful than a premium Chromebook because I think the idea of a premium Chromebook is a, is insanity. I don't know why you're spending so much money for a thing that can only do web apps, cheap Chromebooks, mid-range Chromebooks fine, $500 or less. Great. But if you're spending that much money and you want something that's more reliable, that you could do more with, even if everything you're doing is web-based, there may be other things you wanna do. MacBook Windows laptop. There is so much more you can unlock there. Little bit, a little bit of gaming, a little bit of media creation. I don't know, Karissa. Ben, do you have any thoughts on this? What would you recommend or do, would you guys be fine with the Chromebook? Karissa: I like Chromebooks. I thought my first thought, and maybe this is like too out there, but would an iPad Pro fit that fit those requirements? 'cause you can do a lot with an iPad Pro. You Devindra: can do a lot that's actually great battery, Karissa: lightweight, lots of apps. If most everything he's doing is web based, there's. You can probably use iPad apps. Devindra: That's actually a good point. Karissa you can [00:46:00] do a lot with an iPad and iPad Pro does start at around this price too. So it would be much lighter and thinner than a laptop. Especially if you could do a lot of web stuff. I feel like there are some web things that don't always run well in an iPad form. Safari and iPad doesn't support like everything you'd expect from a web-based site. Like I think if you. There are things we use like we use Video Ninja to record podcasts and that's using web RTC. Sometimes there are things like zencaster, something you have to use, apps to go use those things because I, iOS, iPad OS is so locked down. Multitasking isn't great on iPad os. But yeah, if you're not actually doing that much and you just want a nice. Media device. An iPad is a good option too. Alright, thank you so much Jake Thompson. That's a good one too because I wanna hear about people moving on from Chromebooks. 'cause they, send us more emails at podcast@enggadget.com for sure. Let's just skip right past what we're working on 'cause we're all busy. We're all busy with stuff unless you wanna mention anything. Chris, anything you're working on at the moment? Karissa: The only thing I wanna flag is that [00:47:00] we are rapidly approaching another TikTok sale or ban. Deadline Yes. Next month. Speaker: Sure. Karissa: Been a while since we heard anything about that, but, I'm sure they're hard at work on trying to hammer out this deal. Ben: Okay. But that's actually more relevant because they just figured out maybe the tariff situation and the tariff was the thing that spoiled the first deal. So we'll see what happens like at the beginning of July, yeah. I think Karissa: The deadline's the 19th of June Ben: oh, at the beginning of June. Sorry. Karissa: Yeah, so it's. It's pretty close. And yeah, there has been not much that I've heard on that front. So Devindra: this is where we are. We're just like walking to one broken negotiation after another for the next couple years. Anything you wanna mention, pop culture related krisa that is taking your mind off of our broken world. Karissa: So this is a weird one, but I have been, my husband loves Stargate, and we have been for years through, wait, the movie, the TV shows, Stargate [00:48:00] SG one. Oh Devindra: God. And I'm yeah. Just on the Karissa: last few episodes now in the end game portion of that show. So that has been I spent years like making fun of this and like making fun of him for watching it, but that show's Devindra: ridiculously bad, but yeah. Yeah. Karissa: Everything is so bad now that it's, actually just a nice. Yeah. Distraction to just watch something like so silly. Devindra: That's heartwarming actually, because it is a throwback to when things were simpler. You could just make dumb TV shows and they would last for 24 episodes per season. My for how Ben: many seasons too, Devindra: Karissa? Karissa: 10 seasons. Devindra: You just go on forever. Yeah. My local or lamb and rice place, my local place that does essentially New York streetcar style food, they placed Arga SG one. Every time I'm in there and I'm sitting there watching, I was like, how did we survive with this? How did we watch this show? It's because we just didn't have that much. We were desperate for for genre of fiction, but okay, that's heartwarming Krisa. Have you guys done Farscape? No. Have you seen Farscape? 'cause Farscape is very, is a very similar type of [00:49:00] show, but it has Jim Henson puppets and it has better writing. I love Jim Henson. It's very cool. Okay. It's it's also, it's unlike Stargate. It also dares to be like I don't know, sexy and violent too. Stargate always felt too campy to me. But Farscape was great. I bought that for $15. On iTunes, so that was a deal. I dunno if that deal is still there, but the entire series plus the the post series stuff is all out there. Shout out to Farscape. Shout out to Stargate SG one Simpler times. I'll just really briefly run down a few things and or season two finished over the last week. Incredible stuff. As I said in my initial review, it is really cool to people see people watching this thing and just being blown away by it. And I will say the show. Brought me to tears at the end, and I did not expect that. I did not expect that because we know this guy's gonna die. This is, we know his fate and yet it still means so much and it's so well written and the show is a phenomenon. Chris, I'd recommend it to you when you guys are recovering from Stargate SG one loss and or is fantastic. I also checked out a bit of murderbot the [00:50:00] Apple TV plus adaptation of the Martha Wells books. It's fine. It is weirdly I would say it is funny and entertaining because Alexander Skarsgard is a fun person to watch in in genre fiction. But it also feels like this could be funnier, this could be better produced. Like you could be doing more with this material and it feels like just lazy at times too. But it's a fine distraction if you are into like half-baked sci-fi. So I don't know. Another recommendation for Stargate SG one Levers, Karissa Final Destination Bloodlines. I reviewed over at the film Cast and I love this franchise. It is so cool to see it coming back after 15 years. This movie is incredible. Like this movie is great. If you understand the final destination formula, it's even better because it plays with your expectations of the franchise. I love a horror franchise where there's no, no definable villain. You're just trying to escape death. There's some great setups here. This is a great time at the movies. Get your popcorn. Just go enjoy the wonderfully creative kills. [00:51:00] And shout out to the Zap lapovsky and Adam B. Stein who. Apparently we're listening to my other podcast, and now we're making good movies. So that's always fun thing to see Mount Destination Bloodlines a much better film. The Mission Impossible, the Final Reckoning. My review of that is on the website now too. You can read that in a gadget. Ben: Thanks everybody for listening. Our theme music is by Game Composer Dale North. Our outro music is by our former managing editor, Terrence O'Brien. The podcast is produced by me. Ben Elman. You can find Karissa online at Karissa: Karissa b on threads Blue Sky, and sometimes still X. Ben: Unfortunately, you can find Dendra online Devindra: At dendra on Blue Sky and also podcast about movies and TV at the film cast@thefilmcast.com. Ben: If you really want to, you can find me. At hey bellman on Blue Sky. Email us at podcast@enggadget.com. Leave us a review on iTunes and subscribe on anything that gets podcasts. That includes [00:52:00] Spotify. This article originally appeared on Engadget at https://www.engadget.com/mobile/smartphones/engadget-podcast-the-ai-and-xr-of-google-io-2025-131552868.html?src=rss

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2025-05-26 01:13:41 ·

How Much Better is Solidify Plus Compared to Blender's Native Tool?

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2025-05-26 00:38:17 ·

Google’s ‘world-model’ bet: building the AI operating layer before Microsoft captures the UI

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After three hours at Google’s I/O 2025 event last week in Silicon Valley, it became increasingly clear: Google is rallying its formidable AI efforts – prominently branded under the Gemini name but encompassing a diverse range of underlying model architectures and research – with laser focus. It is releasing a slew of innovations and technologies around it, then integrating them into products at a breathtaking pace.
Beyond headline-grabbing features, Google laid out a bolder ambition: an operating system for the AI age – not the disk-booting kind, but a logic layer every app could tap – a “world model” meant to power a universal assistant that understands our physical surroundings, and reasons and acts on our behalf. It’s a strategic offensive that many observers may have missed amid the bamboozlement of features.
On one hand, it’s a high-stakes strategy to leapfrog entrenched competitors. But on the other, as Google pours billions into this moonshot, a critical question looms: Can Google’s brilliance in AI research and technology translate into products faster than its rivals, whose edge has its own brilliance: packaging AI into immediately accessible and commercially potent products? Can Google out-maneuver a laser-focused Microsoft, fend off OpenAI’s vertical hardware dreams, and, crucially, keep its own search empire alive in the disruptive currents of AI?
Google is already pursuing this future at dizzying scale. Pichai told I/O that the company now processes 480 trillion tokens a month – 50× more than a year ago – and almost 5x more than the 100 trillion tokens a month that Microsoft’s Satya Nadella said his company processed. This momentum is also reflected in developer adoption, with Pichai saying that over 7 million developers are now building with the Gemini API, representing a five-fold increase since the last I/O, while Gemini usage on Vertex AI has surged more than 40 times. And unit costs keep falling as Gemini 2.5 models and the Ironwood TPU squeeze more performance from each watt and dollar. AI Modeand AI Overviewsare the live test beds where Google tunes latency, quality, and future ad formats as it shifts search into an AI-first era.
Source: Google I/O 20025
Google’s doubling-down on what it calls “a world model” – an AI it aims to imbue with a deep understanding of real-world dynamics – and with it a vision for a universal assistant – one powered by Google, and not other companies – creates another big tension: How much control does Google want over this all-knowing assistant, built upon its crown jewel of search? Does it primarily want to leverage it first for itself, to save its billion search business that depends on owning the starting point and avoiding disruption by OpenAI? Or will Google fully open its foundational AI for other developers and companies to leverage – another segment representing a significant portion of its business, engaging over 20 million developers, more than any other company?
It has sometimes stopped short of a radical focus on building these core products for others with the same clarity as its nemesis, Microsoft. That’s because it keeps a lot of core functionality reserved for its cherished search engine. That said, Google is making significant efforts to provide developer access wherever possible. A telling example is Project Mariner. Google could have embedded the agentic browser-automation features directly inside Chrome, giving consumers an immediate showcase under Google’s full control. However, Google followed up by saying Mariner’s computer-use capabilities would be released via the Gemini API more broadly “this summer.” This signals that external access is coming for any rival that wants comparable automation. In fact, Google said partners Automation Anywhere and UiPath were already building with it.
Google’s grand design: the ‘world model’ and universal assistant
The clearest articulation of Google’s grand design came from Demis Hassabis, CEO of Google DeepMind, during the I/O keynote. He stated Google continued to “double down” on efforts towards artificial general intelligence. While Gemini was already “the best multimodal model,” Hassabis explained, Google is working hard to “extend it to become what we call a world model. That is a model that can make plans and imagine new experiences by simulating aspects of the world, just like the brain does.”
This concept of ‘a world model,’ as articulated by Hassabis, is about creating AI that learns the underlying principles of how the world works – simulating cause and effect, understanding intuitive physics, and ultimately learning by observing, much like a human does. An early, perhaps easily overlooked by those not steeped in foundational AI research, yet significant indicator of this direction is Google DeepMind’s work on models like Genie 2. This research shows how to generate interactive, two-dimensional game environments and playable worlds from varied prompts like images or text. It offers a glimpse at an AI that can simulate and understand dynamic systems.
Hassabis has developed this concept of a “world model” and its manifestation as a “universal AI assistant” in several talks since late 2024, and it was presented at I/O most comprehensively – with CEO Sundar Pichai and Gemini lead Josh Woodward echoing the vision on the same stage.Speaking about the Gemini app, Google’s equivalent to OpenAI’s ChatGPT, Hassabis declared, “This is our ultimate vision for the Gemini app, to transform it into a universal AI assistant, an AI that’s personal, proactive, and powerful, and one of our key milestones on the road to AGI.”
This vision was made tangible through I/O demonstrations. Google demoed a new app called Flow – a drag-and-drop filmmaking canvas that preserves character and camera consistency – that leverages Veo 3, the new model that layers physics-aware video and native audio. To Hassabis, that pairing is early proof that ‘world-model understanding is already leaking into creative tooling.’ For robotics, he separately highlighted the fine-tuned Gemini Robotics model, arguing that ‘AI systems will need world models to operate effectively.”
CEO Sundar Pichai reinforced this, citing Project Astra which “explores the future capabilities of a universal AI assistant that can understand the world around you.” These Astra capabilities, like live video understanding and screen sharing, are now integrated into Gemini Live. Josh Woodward, who leads Google Labs and the Gemini App, detailed the app’s goal to be the “most personal, proactive, and powerful AI assistant.” He showcased how “personal context”enables Gemini to anticipate needs, like providing personalized exam quizzes or custom explainer videos using analogies a user understandsform the core intelligence. Google also quietly previewed Gemini Diffusion, signalling its willingness to move beyond pure Transformer stacks when that yields better efficiency or latency. Google is stuffing these capabilities into a crowded toolkit: AI Studio and Firebase Studio are core starting points for developers, while Vertex AI remains the enterprise on-ramp.
The strategic stakes: defending search, courting developers amid an AI arms race
This colossal undertaking is driven by Google’s massive R&D capabilities but also by strategic necessity. In the enterprise software landscape, Microsoft has a formidable hold, a Fortune 500 Chief AI Officer told VentureBeat, reassuring customers with its full commitment to tooling Copilot. The executive requested anonymity because of the sensitivity of commenting on the intense competition between the AI cloud providers. Microsoft’s dominance in Office 365 productivity applications will be exceptionally hard to dislodge through direct feature-for-feature competition, the executive said.
Google’s path to potential leadership – its “end-run” around Microsoft’s enterprise hold – lies in redefining the game with a fundamentally superior, AI-native interaction paradigm. If Google delivers a truly “universal AI assistant” powered by a comprehensive world model, it could become the new indispensable layer – the effective operating system – for how users and businesses interact with technology. As Pichai mused with podcaster David Friedberg shortly before I/O, that means awareness of physical surroundings. And so AR glasses, Pichai said, “maybe that’s the next leap…that’s what’s exciting for me.”
But this AI offensive is a race against multiple clocks. First, the billion search-ads engine that funds Google must be protected even as it is reinvented. The U.S. Department of Justice’s monopolization ruling still hangs over Google – divestiture of Chrome has been floated as the leading remedy. And in Europe, the Digital Markets Act as well as emerging copyright-liability lawsuits could hem in how freely Gemini crawls or displays the open web.
Finally, execution speed matters. Google has been criticized for moving slowly in past years. But over the past 12 months, it became clear Google had been working patiently on multiple fronts, and that it has paid off with faster growth than rivals. The challenge of successfully navigating this AI transition at massive scale is immense, as evidenced by the recent Bloomberg report detailing how even a tech titan like Apple is grappling with significant setbacks and internal reorganizations in its AI initiatives. This industry-wide difficulty underscores the high stakes for all players. While Pichai lacks the showmanship of some rivals, the long list of enterprise customer testimonials Google paraded at its Cloud Next event last month – about actual AI deployments – underscores a leader who lets sustained product cadence and enterprise wins speak for themselves.
At the same time, focused competitors advance. Microsoft’s enterprise march continues. Its Build conference showcased Microsoft 365 Copilot as the “UI for AI,” Azure AI Foundry as a “production line for intelligence,” and Copilot Studio for sophisticated agent-building, with impressive low-code workflow demos. Nadella’s “open agentic web” visionoffers businesses a pragmatic AI adoption path, allowing selective integration of AI tech – whether it be Google’s or another competitor’s – within a Microsoft-centric framework.
OpenAI, meanwhile, is way out ahead with the consumer reach of its ChatGPT product, with recent references by the company to having 600 million monthly users, and 800 million weekly users. This compares to the Gemini app’s 400 million monthly users. And in December, OpenAI launched a full-blown search offering, and is reportedly planning an ad offering – posing what could be an existential threat to Google’s search model. Beyond making leading models, OpenAI is making a provocative vertical play with its reported billion acquisition of Jony Ive’s IO, pledging to move “beyond these legacy products” – and hinting that it was launching a hardware product that would attempt to disrupt AI just like the iPhone disrupted mobile. While any of this may potentially disrupt Google’s next-gen personal computing ambitions, it’s also true that OpenAI’s ability to build a deep moat like Apple did with the iPhone may be limited in an AI era increasingly defined by open protocolsand easier model interchangeability.
Internally, Google navigates its vast ecosystem. As Jeanine Banks, Google’s VP of Developer X, told VentureBeat serving Google’s diverse global developer community means “it’s not a one size fits all,” leading to a rich but sometimes complex array of tools – AI Studio, Vertex AI, Firebase Studio, numerous APIs.
Meanwhile, Amazon is pressing from another flank: Bedrock already hosts Anthropic, Meta, Mistral and Cohere models, giving AWS customers a pragmatic, multi-model default.
For enterprise decision-makers: navigating Google’s ‘world model’ future
Google’s audacious bid to build the foundational intelligence for the AI age presents enterprise leaders with compelling opportunities and critical considerations:

Move now or retrofit later: Falling a release cycle behind could force costly rewrites when assistant-first interfaces become default.
Tap into revolutionary potential: For organizations seeking to embrace the most powerful AI, leveraging Google’s “world model” research, multimodal capabilities, and the AGI trajectory promised by Google offers a path to potentially significant innovation.
Prepare for a new interaction paradigm: Success for Google’s “universal assistant” would mean a primary new interface for services and data. Enterprises should strategize for integration via APIs and agentic frameworks for context-aware delivery.
Factor in the long game: Aligning with Google’s vision is a long-term commitment. The full “world model” and AGI are potentially distant horizons. Decision-makers must balance this with immediate needs and platform complexities.
Contrast with focused alternatives: Pragmatic solutions from Microsoft offer tangible enterprise productivity now. Disruptive hardware-AI from OpenAI/IO presents another distinct path. A diversified strategy, leveraging the best of each, often makes sense, especially with the increasingly open agentic web allowing for such flexibility.

These complex choices and real-world AI adoption strategies will be central to discussions at VentureBeat’s Transform 2025 next month. The leading independent event brings enterprise technical decision-makers together with leaders from pioneering companies to share firsthand experiences on platform choices – Google, Microsoft, and beyond – and navigating AI deployment, all curated by the VentureBeat editorial team. With limited seating, early registration is encouraged.
Google’s defining offensive: shaping the future or strategic overreach?
Google’s I/O spectacle was a strong statement: Google signalled that it intends to architect and operate the foundational intelligence of the AI-driven future. Its pursuit of a “world model” and its AGI ambitions aim to redefine computing, outflank competitors, and secure its dominance. The audacity is compelling; the technological promise is immense.
The big question is execution and timing. Can Google innovate and integrate its vast technologies into a cohesive, compelling experience faster than rivals solidify their positions? Can it do so while transforming search and navigating regulatory challenges? And can it do so while focused so broadly on both consumers and business – an agenda that is arguably much broader than that of its key competitors?
The next few years will be pivotal. If Google delivers on its “world model” vision, it may usher in an era of personalized, ambient intelligence, effectively becoming the new operational layer for our digital lives. If not, its grand ambition could be a cautionary tale of a giant reaching for everything, only to find the future defined by others who aimed more specifically, more quickly.

Daily insights on business use cases with VB Daily
If you want to impress your boss, VB Daily has you covered. We give you the inside scoop on what companies are doing with generative AI, from regulatory shifts to practical deployments, so you can share insights for maximum ROI.
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Google’s ‘world-model’ bet: building the AI operating layer before Microsoft captures the UI
Join our daily and weekly newsletters for the latest updates and exclusive content on industry-leading AI coverage. Learn More After three hours at Google’s I/O 2025 event last week in Silicon Valley, it became increasingly clear: Google is rallying its formidable AI efforts – prominently branded under the Gemini name but encompassing a diverse range of underlying model architectures and research – with laser focus. It is releasing a slew of innovations and technologies around it, then integrating them into products at a breathtaking pace. Beyond headline-grabbing features, Google laid out a bolder ambition: an operating system for the AI age – not the disk-booting kind, but a logic layer every app could tap – a “world model” meant to power a universal assistant that understands our physical surroundings, and reasons and acts on our behalf. It’s a strategic offensive that many observers may have missed amid the bamboozlement of features. On one hand, it’s a high-stakes strategy to leapfrog entrenched competitors. But on the other, as Google pours billions into this moonshot, a critical question looms: Can Google’s brilliance in AI research and technology translate into products faster than its rivals, whose edge has its own brilliance: packaging AI into immediately accessible and commercially potent products? Can Google out-maneuver a laser-focused Microsoft, fend off OpenAI’s vertical hardware dreams, and, crucially, keep its own search empire alive in the disruptive currents of AI? Google is already pursuing this future at dizzying scale. Pichai told I/O that the company now processes 480 trillion tokens a month – 50× more than a year ago – and almost 5x more than the 100 trillion tokens a month that Microsoft’s Satya Nadella said his company processed. This momentum is also reflected in developer adoption, with Pichai saying that over 7 million developers are now building with the Gemini API, representing a five-fold increase since the last I/O, while Gemini usage on Vertex AI has surged more than 40 times. And unit costs keep falling as Gemini 2.5 models and the Ironwood TPU squeeze more performance from each watt and dollar. AI Modeand AI Overviewsare the live test beds where Google tunes latency, quality, and future ad formats as it shifts search into an AI-first era. Source: Google I/O 20025 Google’s doubling-down on what it calls “a world model” – an AI it aims to imbue with a deep understanding of real-world dynamics – and with it a vision for a universal assistant – one powered by Google, and not other companies – creates another big tension: How much control does Google want over this all-knowing assistant, built upon its crown jewel of search? Does it primarily want to leverage it first for itself, to save its billion search business that depends on owning the starting point and avoiding disruption by OpenAI? Or will Google fully open its foundational AI for other developers and companies to leverage – another segment representing a significant portion of its business, engaging over 20 million developers, more than any other company? It has sometimes stopped short of a radical focus on building these core products for others with the same clarity as its nemesis, Microsoft. That’s because it keeps a lot of core functionality reserved for its cherished search engine. That said, Google is making significant efforts to provide developer access wherever possible. A telling example is Project Mariner. Google could have embedded the agentic browser-automation features directly inside Chrome, giving consumers an immediate showcase under Google’s full control. However, Google followed up by saying Mariner’s computer-use capabilities would be released via the Gemini API more broadly “this summer.” This signals that external access is coming for any rival that wants comparable automation. In fact, Google said partners Automation Anywhere and UiPath were already building with it. Google’s grand design: the ‘world model’ and universal assistant The clearest articulation of Google’s grand design came from Demis Hassabis, CEO of Google DeepMind, during the I/O keynote. He stated Google continued to “double down” on efforts towards artificial general intelligence. While Gemini was already “the best multimodal model,” Hassabis explained, Google is working hard to “extend it to become what we call a world model. That is a model that can make plans and imagine new experiences by simulating aspects of the world, just like the brain does.” This concept of ‘a world model,’ as articulated by Hassabis, is about creating AI that learns the underlying principles of how the world works – simulating cause and effect, understanding intuitive physics, and ultimately learning by observing, much like a human does. An early, perhaps easily overlooked by those not steeped in foundational AI research, yet significant indicator of this direction is Google DeepMind’s work on models like Genie 2. This research shows how to generate interactive, two-dimensional game environments and playable worlds from varied prompts like images or text. It offers a glimpse at an AI that can simulate and understand dynamic systems. Hassabis has developed this concept of a “world model” and its manifestation as a “universal AI assistant” in several talks since late 2024, and it was presented at I/O most comprehensively – with CEO Sundar Pichai and Gemini lead Josh Woodward echoing the vision on the same stage.Speaking about the Gemini app, Google’s equivalent to OpenAI’s ChatGPT, Hassabis declared, “This is our ultimate vision for the Gemini app, to transform it into a universal AI assistant, an AI that’s personal, proactive, and powerful, and one of our key milestones on the road to AGI.” This vision was made tangible through I/O demonstrations. Google demoed a new app called Flow – a drag-and-drop filmmaking canvas that preserves character and camera consistency – that leverages Veo 3, the new model that layers physics-aware video and native audio. To Hassabis, that pairing is early proof that ‘world-model understanding is already leaking into creative tooling.’ For robotics, he separately highlighted the fine-tuned Gemini Robotics model, arguing that ‘AI systems will need world models to operate effectively.” CEO Sundar Pichai reinforced this, citing Project Astra which “explores the future capabilities of a universal AI assistant that can understand the world around you.” These Astra capabilities, like live video understanding and screen sharing, are now integrated into Gemini Live. Josh Woodward, who leads Google Labs and the Gemini App, detailed the app’s goal to be the “most personal, proactive, and powerful AI assistant.” He showcased how “personal context”enables Gemini to anticipate needs, like providing personalized exam quizzes or custom explainer videos using analogies a user understandsform the core intelligence. Google also quietly previewed Gemini Diffusion, signalling its willingness to move beyond pure Transformer stacks when that yields better efficiency or latency. Google is stuffing these capabilities into a crowded toolkit: AI Studio and Firebase Studio are core starting points for developers, while Vertex AI remains the enterprise on-ramp. The strategic stakes: defending search, courting developers amid an AI arms race This colossal undertaking is driven by Google’s massive R&D capabilities but also by strategic necessity. In the enterprise software landscape, Microsoft has a formidable hold, a Fortune 500 Chief AI Officer told VentureBeat, reassuring customers with its full commitment to tooling Copilot. The executive requested anonymity because of the sensitivity of commenting on the intense competition between the AI cloud providers. Microsoft’s dominance in Office 365 productivity applications will be exceptionally hard to dislodge through direct feature-for-feature competition, the executive said. Google’s path to potential leadership – its “end-run” around Microsoft’s enterprise hold – lies in redefining the game with a fundamentally superior, AI-native interaction paradigm. If Google delivers a truly “universal AI assistant” powered by a comprehensive world model, it could become the new indispensable layer – the effective operating system – for how users and businesses interact with technology. As Pichai mused with podcaster David Friedberg shortly before I/O, that means awareness of physical surroundings. And so AR glasses, Pichai said, “maybe that’s the next leap…that’s what’s exciting for me.” But this AI offensive is a race against multiple clocks. First, the billion search-ads engine that funds Google must be protected even as it is reinvented. The U.S. Department of Justice’s monopolization ruling still hangs over Google – divestiture of Chrome has been floated as the leading remedy. And in Europe, the Digital Markets Act as well as emerging copyright-liability lawsuits could hem in how freely Gemini crawls or displays the open web. Finally, execution speed matters. Google has been criticized for moving slowly in past years. But over the past 12 months, it became clear Google had been working patiently on multiple fronts, and that it has paid off with faster growth than rivals. The challenge of successfully navigating this AI transition at massive scale is immense, as evidenced by the recent Bloomberg report detailing how even a tech titan like Apple is grappling with significant setbacks and internal reorganizations in its AI initiatives. This industry-wide difficulty underscores the high stakes for all players. While Pichai lacks the showmanship of some rivals, the long list of enterprise customer testimonials Google paraded at its Cloud Next event last month – about actual AI deployments – underscores a leader who lets sustained product cadence and enterprise wins speak for themselves. At the same time, focused competitors advance. Microsoft’s enterprise march continues. Its Build conference showcased Microsoft 365 Copilot as the “UI for AI,” Azure AI Foundry as a “production line for intelligence,” and Copilot Studio for sophisticated agent-building, with impressive low-code workflow demos. Nadella’s “open agentic web” visionoffers businesses a pragmatic AI adoption path, allowing selective integration of AI tech – whether it be Google’s or another competitor’s – within a Microsoft-centric framework. OpenAI, meanwhile, is way out ahead with the consumer reach of its ChatGPT product, with recent references by the company to having 600 million monthly users, and 800 million weekly users. This compares to the Gemini app’s 400 million monthly users. And in December, OpenAI launched a full-blown search offering, and is reportedly planning an ad offering – posing what could be an existential threat to Google’s search model. Beyond making leading models, OpenAI is making a provocative vertical play with its reported billion acquisition of Jony Ive’s IO, pledging to move “beyond these legacy products” – and hinting that it was launching a hardware product that would attempt to disrupt AI just like the iPhone disrupted mobile. While any of this may potentially disrupt Google’s next-gen personal computing ambitions, it’s also true that OpenAI’s ability to build a deep moat like Apple did with the iPhone may be limited in an AI era increasingly defined by open protocolsand easier model interchangeability. Internally, Google navigates its vast ecosystem. As Jeanine Banks, Google’s VP of Developer X, told VentureBeat serving Google’s diverse global developer community means “it’s not a one size fits all,” leading to a rich but sometimes complex array of tools – AI Studio, Vertex AI, Firebase Studio, numerous APIs. Meanwhile, Amazon is pressing from another flank: Bedrock already hosts Anthropic, Meta, Mistral and Cohere models, giving AWS customers a pragmatic, multi-model default. For enterprise decision-makers: navigating Google’s ‘world model’ future Google’s audacious bid to build the foundational intelligence for the AI age presents enterprise leaders with compelling opportunities and critical considerations: Move now or retrofit later: Falling a release cycle behind could force costly rewrites when assistant-first interfaces become default. Tap into revolutionary potential: For organizations seeking to embrace the most powerful AI, leveraging Google’s “world model” research, multimodal capabilities, and the AGI trajectory promised by Google offers a path to potentially significant innovation. Prepare for a new interaction paradigm: Success for Google’s “universal assistant” would mean a primary new interface for services and data. Enterprises should strategize for integration via APIs and agentic frameworks for context-aware delivery. Factor in the long game: Aligning with Google’s vision is a long-term commitment. The full “world model” and AGI are potentially distant horizons. Decision-makers must balance this with immediate needs and platform complexities. Contrast with focused alternatives: Pragmatic solutions from Microsoft offer tangible enterprise productivity now. Disruptive hardware-AI from OpenAI/IO presents another distinct path. A diversified strategy, leveraging the best of each, often makes sense, especially with the increasingly open agentic web allowing for such flexibility. These complex choices and real-world AI adoption strategies will be central to discussions at VentureBeat’s Transform 2025 next month. The leading independent event brings enterprise technical decision-makers together with leaders from pioneering companies to share firsthand experiences on platform choices – Google, Microsoft, and beyond – and navigating AI deployment, all curated by the VentureBeat editorial team. With limited seating, early registration is encouraged. Google’s defining offensive: shaping the future or strategic overreach? Google’s I/O spectacle was a strong statement: Google signalled that it intends to architect and operate the foundational intelligence of the AI-driven future. Its pursuit of a “world model” and its AGI ambitions aim to redefine computing, outflank competitors, and secure its dominance. The audacity is compelling; the technological promise is immense. The big question is execution and timing. Can Google innovate and integrate its vast technologies into a cohesive, compelling experience faster than rivals solidify their positions? Can it do so while transforming search and navigating regulatory challenges? And can it do so while focused so broadly on both consumers and business – an agenda that is arguably much broader than that of its key competitors? The next few years will be pivotal. If Google delivers on its “world model” vision, it may usher in an era of personalized, ambient intelligence, effectively becoming the new operational layer for our digital lives. If not, its grand ambition could be a cautionary tale of a giant reaching for everything, only to find the future defined by others who aimed more specifically, more quickly. Daily insights on business use cases with VB Daily If you want to impress your boss, VB Daily has you covered. We give you the inside scoop on what companies are doing with generative AI, from regulatory shifts to practical deployments, so you can share insights for maximum ROI. Read our Privacy Policy Thanks for subscribing. Check out more VB newsletters here. An error occured. #googles #worldmodel #bet #building #operating

VENTUREBEAT.COM

Google’s ‘world-model’ bet: building the AI operating layer before Microsoft captures the UI

Join our daily and weekly newsletters for the latest updates and exclusive content on industry-leading AI coverage. Learn More After three hours at Google’s I/O 2025 event last week in Silicon Valley, it became increasingly clear: Google is rallying its formidable AI efforts – prominently branded under the Gemini name but encompassing a diverse range of underlying model architectures and research – with laser focus. It is releasing a slew of innovations and technologies around it, then integrating them into products at a breathtaking pace. Beyond headline-grabbing features, Google laid out a bolder ambition: an operating system for the AI age – not the disk-booting kind, but a logic layer every app could tap – a “world model” meant to power a universal assistant that understands our physical surroundings, and reasons and acts on our behalf. It’s a strategic offensive that many observers may have missed amid the bamboozlement of features. On one hand, it’s a high-stakes strategy to leapfrog entrenched competitors. But on the other, as Google pours billions into this moonshot, a critical question looms: Can Google’s brilliance in AI research and technology translate into products faster than its rivals, whose edge has its own brilliance: packaging AI into immediately accessible and commercially potent products? Can Google out-maneuver a laser-focused Microsoft, fend off OpenAI’s vertical hardware dreams, and, crucially, keep its own search empire alive in the disruptive currents of AI? Google is already pursuing this future at dizzying scale. Pichai told I/O that the company now processes 480 trillion tokens a month – 50× more than a year ago – and almost 5x more than the 100 trillion tokens a month that Microsoft’s Satya Nadella said his company processed. This momentum is also reflected in developer adoption, with Pichai saying that over 7 million developers are now building with the Gemini API, representing a five-fold increase since the last I/O, while Gemini usage on Vertex AI has surged more than 40 times. And unit costs keep falling as Gemini 2.5 models and the Ironwood TPU squeeze more performance from each watt and dollar. AI Mode (rolling out in the U.S.) and AI Overviews (already serving 1.5 billion users monthly) are the live test beds where Google tunes latency, quality, and future ad formats as it shifts search into an AI-first era. Source: Google I/O 20025 Google’s doubling-down on what it calls “a world model” – an AI it aims to imbue with a deep understanding of real-world dynamics – and with it a vision for a universal assistant – one powered by Google, and not other companies – creates another big tension: How much control does Google want over this all-knowing assistant, built upon its crown jewel of search? Does it primarily want to leverage it first for itself, to save its $200 billion search business that depends on owning the starting point and avoiding disruption by OpenAI? Or will Google fully open its foundational AI for other developers and companies to leverage – another segment representing a significant portion of its business, engaging over 20 million developers, more than any other company? It has sometimes stopped short of a radical focus on building these core products for others with the same clarity as its nemesis, Microsoft. That’s because it keeps a lot of core functionality reserved for its cherished search engine. That said, Google is making significant efforts to provide developer access wherever possible. A telling example is Project Mariner. Google could have embedded the agentic browser-automation features directly inside Chrome, giving consumers an immediate showcase under Google’s full control. However, Google followed up by saying Mariner’s computer-use capabilities would be released via the Gemini API more broadly “this summer.” This signals that external access is coming for any rival that wants comparable automation. In fact, Google said partners Automation Anywhere and UiPath were already building with it. Google’s grand design: the ‘world model’ and universal assistant The clearest articulation of Google’s grand design came from Demis Hassabis, CEO of Google DeepMind, during the I/O keynote. He stated Google continued to “double down” on efforts towards artificial general intelligence (AGI). While Gemini was already “the best multimodal model,” Hassabis explained, Google is working hard to “extend it to become what we call a world model. That is a model that can make plans and imagine new experiences by simulating aspects of the world, just like the brain does.” This concept of ‘a world model,’ as articulated by Hassabis, is about creating AI that learns the underlying principles of how the world works – simulating cause and effect, understanding intuitive physics, and ultimately learning by observing, much like a human does. An early, perhaps easily overlooked by those not steeped in foundational AI research, yet significant indicator of this direction is Google DeepMind’s work on models like Genie 2. This research shows how to generate interactive, two-dimensional game environments and playable worlds from varied prompts like images or text. It offers a glimpse at an AI that can simulate and understand dynamic systems. Hassabis has developed this concept of a “world model” and its manifestation as a “universal AI assistant” in several talks since late 2024, and it was presented at I/O most comprehensively – with CEO Sundar Pichai and Gemini lead Josh Woodward echoing the vision on the same stage. (While other AI leaders, including Microsoft’s Satya Nadella, OpenAI’s Sam Altman, and xAI’s Elon Musk have all discussed ‘world models,” Google uniquely and most comprehensively ties this foundational concept to its near-term strategic thrust: the ‘universal AI assistant.) Speaking about the Gemini app, Google’s equivalent to OpenAI’s ChatGPT, Hassabis declared, “This is our ultimate vision for the Gemini app, to transform it into a universal AI assistant, an AI that’s personal, proactive, and powerful, and one of our key milestones on the road to AGI.” This vision was made tangible through I/O demonstrations. Google demoed a new app called Flow – a drag-and-drop filmmaking canvas that preserves character and camera consistency – that leverages Veo 3, the new model that layers physics-aware video and native audio. To Hassabis, that pairing is early proof that ‘world-model understanding is already leaking into creative tooling.’ For robotics, he separately highlighted the fine-tuned Gemini Robotics model, arguing that ‘AI systems will need world models to operate effectively.” CEO Sundar Pichai reinforced this, citing Project Astra which “explores the future capabilities of a universal AI assistant that can understand the world around you.” These Astra capabilities, like live video understanding and screen sharing, are now integrated into Gemini Live. Josh Woodward, who leads Google Labs and the Gemini App, detailed the app’s goal to be the “most personal, proactive, and powerful AI assistant.” He showcased how “personal context” (connecting search history, and soon Gmail/Calendar) enables Gemini to anticipate needs, like providing personalized exam quizzes or custom explainer videos using analogies a user understands (e.g., thermodynamics explained via cycling. This, Woodward emphasized, is “where we’re headed with Gemini,” enabled by the Gemini 2.5 Pro model allowing users to “think things into existence.” The new developer tools unveiled at I/O are building blocks. Gemini 2.5 Pro with “Deep Think” and the hyper-efficient 2.5 Flash (now with native audio and URL context grounding from Gemini API) form the core intelligence. Google also quietly previewed Gemini Diffusion, signalling its willingness to move beyond pure Transformer stacks when that yields better efficiency or latency. Google is stuffing these capabilities into a crowded toolkit: AI Studio and Firebase Studio are core starting points for developers, while Vertex AI remains the enterprise on-ramp. The strategic stakes: defending search, courting developers amid an AI arms race This colossal undertaking is driven by Google’s massive R&D capabilities but also by strategic necessity. In the enterprise software landscape, Microsoft has a formidable hold, a Fortune 500 Chief AI Officer told VentureBeat, reassuring customers with its full commitment to tooling Copilot. The executive requested anonymity because of the sensitivity of commenting on the intense competition between the AI cloud providers. Microsoft’s dominance in Office 365 productivity applications will be exceptionally hard to dislodge through direct feature-for-feature competition, the executive said. Google’s path to potential leadership – its “end-run” around Microsoft’s enterprise hold – lies in redefining the game with a fundamentally superior, AI-native interaction paradigm. If Google delivers a truly “universal AI assistant” powered by a comprehensive world model, it could become the new indispensable layer – the effective operating system – for how users and businesses interact with technology. As Pichai mused with podcaster David Friedberg shortly before I/O, that means awareness of physical surroundings. And so AR glasses, Pichai said, “maybe that’s the next leap…that’s what’s exciting for me.” But this AI offensive is a race against multiple clocks. First, the $200 billion search-ads engine that funds Google must be protected even as it is reinvented. The U.S. Department of Justice’s monopolization ruling still hangs over Google – divestiture of Chrome has been floated as the leading remedy. And in Europe, the Digital Markets Act as well as emerging copyright-liability lawsuits could hem in how freely Gemini crawls or displays the open web. Finally, execution speed matters. Google has been criticized for moving slowly in past years. But over the past 12 months, it became clear Google had been working patiently on multiple fronts, and that it has paid off with faster growth than rivals. The challenge of successfully navigating this AI transition at massive scale is immense, as evidenced by the recent Bloomberg report detailing how even a tech titan like Apple is grappling with significant setbacks and internal reorganizations in its AI initiatives. This industry-wide difficulty underscores the high stakes for all players. While Pichai lacks the showmanship of some rivals, the long list of enterprise customer testimonials Google paraded at its Cloud Next event last month – about actual AI deployments – underscores a leader who lets sustained product cadence and enterprise wins speak for themselves. At the same time, focused competitors advance. Microsoft’s enterprise march continues. Its Build conference showcased Microsoft 365 Copilot as the “UI for AI,” Azure AI Foundry as a “production line for intelligence,” and Copilot Studio for sophisticated agent-building, with impressive low-code workflow demos (Microsoft Build Keynote, Miti Joshi at 22:52, Kadesha Kerr at 51:26). Nadella’s “open agentic web” vision (NLWeb, MCP) offers businesses a pragmatic AI adoption path, allowing selective integration of AI tech – whether it be Google’s or another competitor’s – within a Microsoft-centric framework. OpenAI, meanwhile, is way out ahead with the consumer reach of its ChatGPT product, with recent references by the company to having 600 million monthly users, and 800 million weekly users. This compares to the Gemini app’s 400 million monthly users. And in December, OpenAI launched a full-blown search offering, and is reportedly planning an ad offering – posing what could be an existential threat to Google’s search model. Beyond making leading models, OpenAI is making a provocative vertical play with its reported $6.5 billion acquisition of Jony Ive’s IO, pledging to move “beyond these legacy products” – and hinting that it was launching a hardware product that would attempt to disrupt AI just like the iPhone disrupted mobile. While any of this may potentially disrupt Google’s next-gen personal computing ambitions, it’s also true that OpenAI’s ability to build a deep moat like Apple did with the iPhone may be limited in an AI era increasingly defined by open protocols (like MCP) and easier model interchangeability. Internally, Google navigates its vast ecosystem. As Jeanine Banks, Google’s VP of Developer X, told VentureBeat serving Google’s diverse global developer community means “it’s not a one size fits all,” leading to a rich but sometimes complex array of tools – AI Studio, Vertex AI, Firebase Studio, numerous APIs. Meanwhile, Amazon is pressing from another flank: Bedrock already hosts Anthropic, Meta, Mistral and Cohere models, giving AWS customers a pragmatic, multi-model default. For enterprise decision-makers: navigating Google’s ‘world model’ future Google’s audacious bid to build the foundational intelligence for the AI age presents enterprise leaders with compelling opportunities and critical considerations: Move now or retrofit later: Falling a release cycle behind could force costly rewrites when assistant-first interfaces become default. Tap into revolutionary potential: For organizations seeking to embrace the most powerful AI, leveraging Google’s “world model” research, multimodal capabilities (like Veo 3 and Imagen 4 showcased by Woodward at I/O), and the AGI trajectory promised by Google offers a path to potentially significant innovation. Prepare for a new interaction paradigm: Success for Google’s “universal assistant” would mean a primary new interface for services and data. Enterprises should strategize for integration via APIs and agentic frameworks for context-aware delivery. Factor in the long game (and its risks): Aligning with Google’s vision is a long-term commitment. The full “world model” and AGI are potentially distant horizons. Decision-makers must balance this with immediate needs and platform complexities. Contrast with focused alternatives: Pragmatic solutions from Microsoft offer tangible enterprise productivity now. Disruptive hardware-AI from OpenAI/IO presents another distinct path. A diversified strategy, leveraging the best of each, often makes sense, especially with the increasingly open agentic web allowing for such flexibility. These complex choices and real-world AI adoption strategies will be central to discussions at VentureBeat’s Transform 2025 next month. The leading independent event brings enterprise technical decision-makers together with leaders from pioneering companies to share firsthand experiences on platform choices – Google, Microsoft, and beyond – and navigating AI deployment, all curated by the VentureBeat editorial team. With limited seating, early registration is encouraged. Google’s defining offensive: shaping the future or strategic overreach? Google’s I/O spectacle was a strong statement: Google signalled that it intends to architect and operate the foundational intelligence of the AI-driven future. Its pursuit of a “world model” and its AGI ambitions aim to redefine computing, outflank competitors, and secure its dominance. The audacity is compelling; the technological promise is immense. The big question is execution and timing. Can Google innovate and integrate its vast technologies into a cohesive, compelling experience faster than rivals solidify their positions? Can it do so while transforming search and navigating regulatory challenges? And can it do so while focused so broadly on both consumers and business – an agenda that is arguably much broader than that of its key competitors? The next few years will be pivotal. If Google delivers on its “world model” vision, it may usher in an era of personalized, ambient intelligence, effectively becoming the new operational layer for our digital lives. If not, its grand ambition could be a cautionary tale of a giant reaching for everything, only to find the future defined by others who aimed more specifically, more quickly. Daily insights on business use cases with VB Daily If you want to impress your boss, VB Daily has you covered. We give you the inside scoop on what companies are doing with generative AI, from regulatory shifts to practical deployments, so you can share insights for maximum ROI. Read our Privacy Policy Thanks for subscribing. Check out more VB newsletters here. An error occured.

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