• IGN: Activision Quietly Force Adverts into Call of Duty Black Ops 6 and Warzone Loadouts and Players Absolutely Hate It

    Xando
    Member

    Oct 28, 2017

    38,006

    With the launch of Call of Duty Season 4, Activision quietly put adverts inside loadouts for Black Ops 6 and Warzone, sparking a backlash in the process.

    Activision already has a bad reputation for the aggressive monetization of the premium Black Ops 6 and its free-to-play battle royale Warzone, but this latest move may have tipped some players over the edge.

    Following the launch of Season 4, adverts for weapon bundles can be seen in the build and weapon menus. These are unavoidable for players as they tinker with their loadouts.

    Elsewhere, Activision has added bundle and Battle Pass advertisements to the Events tab, another controversial change that has caused complaints.

    Here's a snippet of the response, sourced from across Call of Duty subreddits, Discords, and social media:

    I wouldn't even be mad if this was just in Warzone, a free game, but putting it in a pay-to-play premium title, with how expensive they're getting? F**k off.
    This game is still 80€ I get that they make most of their money from the store, but I feel like the bare minimum for a premium product would be to not have ads clogging the menus right?
    At this point it really feels like opening up a mobile game with how much more you see an option to buy anything in this game.
    Anyone who wanted this bundle would've checked the store and bought it. Putting it here isn't gonna make more people buy it, its justannoying.
    Just wait until they add pop up ads for bundles while you are playing the game.

    Click to expand...
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    More including some examples here:

    Activision Quietly Force Adverts into Call of Duty Black Ops 6 and Warzone Loadouts and Players Absolutely Hate It: 'At This Point It Really Feels Like Opening Up a Mobile Game' - IGN

    With the launch of Call of Duty Season 4, Activision quietly put adverts inside loadouts for Black Ops 6 and Warzone, sparking a backlash in the process.

    www.ign.com

     

    Gaspode
    Member

    Jan 17, 2025

    152

    gross
     

    MarcosBrXD
    Member

    Aug 28, 2024

    1,779

    Crazy one of the biggest IPs doing this
     

    Wallace
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    28,182

    Midwest

    What a shit franchise.
     

    Shirkelton
    Member

    Aug 20, 2020

    6,976

    Fuck that.
     

    MinerArcaniner
    Uncle Works at Nintendo
    Member

    Oct 29, 2017

    7,473

    The revenue line has to keep going up. There's no such thing as "enough" with corporations.
     

    Kinthey
    Avenger

    Oct 27, 2017

    25,551

    Poor Cod really needs the money to keep the lights on
     

    skullmuffins
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    7,615

    oh, ads for in-game microtransactions. guess i'm not surprised. that's where all the money is these days.
     

    Remark
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    4,184

    Yeah the ads are so bad this season.

    When you boot up the game in CoD HQ, theres a big ass button for Blackcell and BO6 and WZ are all the way on the right side of the menu. It's so annoying. Huge disrespect to the people who actually bought the game.

    I wish CoD HQ would go away, it doesn't even actually help with anything and actually hampers the UX experience in a lot of ways especially on PC. 

    Last edited: Today at 10:14 AM

    LiquidDom
    Avenger

    Oct 27, 2017

    2,730

    Wait it's just ads for the in-game purchases? Not outside ads that have nothing to do with the game?

    I don't have that much of an issue with it, still shit though. 

    Richietto
    One Winged Slayer
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    26,147

    North Carolina

    Lmao what a joke
     

    Loxley
    Prophet of Truth
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    10,702

    We're inching closer and closer to this scene from Ready Player One.

    "We estimate we can sell up to 80% of an individual's visual field before inducing seizures"

    View:  

    Fabs
    Member

    Aug 22, 2019

    2,780

    This doesn't seem that different than like Fortnite advertising the shop updates in the main menu. It's fairly harmless.
     

    Noisepurge
    Corrupted by Vengeance
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    9,775

    Fabs said:

    This doesn't seem that different than like Fortnite advertising the shop updates in the main menu. It's fairly harmless.

    Click to expand...
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    Fortnite doesn't cost 80$ 

    OP

    OP

    Xando
    Member

    Oct 28, 2017

    38,006

    LiquidDom said:

    Wait it's just ads for the in-game purchases? Not outside ads that have nothing to do with the game?

    I don't have that much of an issue with it, still shit though.
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    Considering half of the in-game purchases are basically ads for some brands or characters that have nothing to do with COD it's basically the same thing
     

    Remark
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    4,184

    Noisepurge said:

    Fortnite doesn't cost 80$

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    To be fair, Warzone is F2P but that shit should be in there. Whether you buy the game or not, you have to go through CoD HQ which is so annoying.
     

    Doskoi Panda
    One Winged Slayer
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    17,314

    CoD is so fucking trashy lmao. I will never understand how it remains so popular. It just gets worse year over yesr, even Warzone.
     

    SunBroDave
    "This guy are sick"
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    15,148

    How else is COD supposed to make money
     

    Decarb
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    9,264

    Fabs said:

    This doesn't seem that different than like Fortnite advertising the shop updates in the main menu. It's fairly harmless.

    Click to expand...
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    Not only is it in a full priced mode, but its also in the weapon customization menu where you least expect it.

     

    Agni Kai
    Member

    Nov 2, 2017

    10,037

    Only Battlefield 6 can save us now. Hold the line, my friends. Hold the line.
     

    jroc74
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    34,177

    Yeah I dont think it needs to be this aggressive.

    LiquidDom said:

    Wait it's just ads for the in-game purchases? Not outside ads that have nothing to do with the game?

    I don't have that much of an issue with it, still shit though.
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    Fabs said:

    This doesn't seem that different than like Fortnite advertising the shop updates in the main menu. It's fairly harmless.

    Click to expand...
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    While trying to play the game tho?

    "Following the launch of Season 4, adverts for weapon bundles can be seen in the build and weapon menus. These are unavoidable for players as they tinker with their loadouts."

    Imagine getting hit with Shark Card ads while browsing the in game stores in GTA Online....please Rockstar dont do this.

    Noisepurge said:

    Fortnite doesn't cost 80$

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    Also this. 

    BradleyLove
    Member

    Oct 29, 2017

    1,661

    Doesn't surprise me. I bought Forza Horizon for PS5 a few days ago and was shocked to encounter unskippable ads for DLC. The American obsession with forcing ads everywhere they can is horrible.

    This reply was brought to you by NEW Mountain Dew—new look, same bold refreshing flavour. 

    TransEuropaExpress
    Member

    Dec 6, 2017

    11,420

    US

    They should go all in and start doing random 5-minute commercial breaks in the middle of rounds.
     

    Pyro
    God help us the mods are making weekend threads
    Member

    Jul 30, 2018

    18,922

    United States

    Really fucking gross.
     

    Vourlis
    Member

    Aug 14, 2022

    5,911

    United States

    I...where are the ads?

    edit: Oh like advertising the bundles or whatever. Okay. 

    jroc74
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    34,177

    BradleyLove said:

    Doesn't surprise me. I bought Forza Horizon for PS5 a few days ago and was shocked to encounter unskippable ads for DLC. The American obsession with forcing ads everywhere they can is horrible.

    This reply was brought to you by NEW Mountain Dew—new look, same bold refreshing flavour.
    Click to expand...
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    I either forgot how it was or just didnt know, because I played it on XSX when it launched.

    But I was and am shocked at the mtx in FH5. 

    shadowman16
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    41,804

    I feel like this has already become too normalised because I honestly assumed we were talking about unrelated product ads... Meanwhile the examples above... honestly I kinda expected.

    Granted the article also points it out perfectly that if it were just in Warzoneit'd be... less bad, but charging however much for COD THEN pushing those ads on you... you just know people will crack.
    Not the worst example of ads in games though, I still give that to SFVI's Turtles costumes, aside the cost, having that damn song playing constantly in the battle hub for monthon end drove me nuts at the time. 

    Papaya
    The Fallen

    Oct 25, 2017

    2,735

    California

    The financial model for CoD is awful and lacks any sort of creativity. They just copied fortnite even though it doesn't work for a military shooter. They rarely release any good content because it either doesn't match the game's tone, or it sucks. It just doesn't lend itself well to skins, and other visual customization options. Or maybe they just don't know how to make good. Either way, I've never seen a more boring battlepass in my life.

    CoD can be a super fun action game, but it's never felt more hollow and lifeless. The best counter-example to "games are art" I've ever seen. 

    BestBrand
    Member

    Mar 5, 2025

    457

    Call of duty is the worst man. I may not even buy another COD again.
     

    MerluzaSamus
    Member

    Dec 3, 2018

    1,471

    Argentina

    Agni Kai said:

    Only Battlefield 6 can save us now. Hold the line, my friends. Hold the line.

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    The game published by EA to gather obscene money on the fps market? That one Battlefield?

    Jokes aside, 'fraid this is going to be the norm long term, Fortnite normalized it and publishers with less restraint are going wild, same with AI. At least on the AAA market. 

    Lumination
    Member

    Oct 26, 2017

    16,064

    Who could have expected them giving the game away would have affected the revenue stream and business model of the game itself.
     

    Geeko
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    1,413

    San Jose, CA

    Lame as hell. The problem is that the masses won't care about it and will still spend crap tons of money on this game thus continuing this constant bombardment of ads.
     

    shadowman16
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    41,804

    Agni Kai said:

    Only Battlefield 6 can save us now. Hold the line, my friends. Hold the line.

    Click to expand...
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    Gameplay wise, Hopefully Dice will take the time and make something truly special.

    However... I wouldnt expect much better from EA of all publishers. They are every bit as summy... 

    OP

    OP

    Xando
    Member

    Oct 28, 2017

    38,006

    My guess is this is only going to get worse as MS tries to make up the lost revenue from people playing via GP instead of buying
     

    SP.
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    8,578

    I guess I thought it would be worse than the reaction seems to suggest…

    They're in-game micro transaction ads and for the most are for weapon skins which naturally don't seem that out of place in a weapon selection menu. It's not like they're advertising a Burger King Whopper in here. Obviously it'd be better if they weren't there at all but honestly if I played the game and saw these I wouldn't think it's anything out of the ordinary. 

    Ravelle
    Member

    Oct 31, 2017

    20,432

    Noisepurge said:

    Fortnite doesn't cost 80$

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    It doesn't spam you with multiple windows to buy something either 

    Rosebud
    Two Pieces
    Member

    Apr 16, 2018

    51,386

    Wallace said:

    What a shit franchise.

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    .
     

    Kyokanto
    Member

    Mar 4, 2025

    493

    For a second I thought this was going to be McDonald's ads or something lol. I wonder how far off that is…

    Still scummy as is. 

    Pop-O-Matic
    Avenger

    Oct 25, 2017

    14,007

    MarcosBrXD said:

    Crazy one of the biggest IPs doing this

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    Not really. CoD might move more money than most of the rest of the industry put together, but capitalismdemands that the line must always be going up, and there isn't really much CoD can do to grow the player base in any significant way in the short-to-medium term, so they're going to start trying out shit like this to get even more money out of the existing players so the line goes up and the shareholders can be happy.
     

    Fabs
    Member

    Aug 22, 2019

    2,780

    Noisepurge said:

    Fortnite doesn't cost 80$

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    Decarb said:

    Not only is it in a full priced mode, but its also in the weapon customization menu where you least expect it.

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    jroc74 said:

    Yeah I dont think it needs to be this aggressive.

    While trying to play the game tho?

    "Following the launch of Season 4, adverts for weapon bundles can be seen in the build and weapon menus. These are unavoidable for players as they tinker with their loadouts."

    Imagine getting hit with Shark Card ads while browsing the in game stores in GTA Online....please Rockstar dont do this.

    Also this.
    Click to expand...
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    Full priced games advertise their dlc in menus all the time. Is it because it's in a new place? Is this that different than having the paid operators in the menu for selection like they have in past CoD? Or when I play Street Fighter and I can't pick Akuma because he costs money? I get it if it was for McDonalds but this seems like rage bait. 

    Plexas
    Member

    Jan 24, 2025

    289

    Several trillion dollar company needs some money to survive, please understand.
     

    Twister
    Member

    Feb 11, 2019

    6,692

    This franchise peaked with BO3. Everything after has been a disaster
     

    Vertigo1
    Member

    Jun 30, 2023

    1,093

    CoD will never be as good as it was in the 360 era, ever again.
     

    Sordid Plebeian
    Member

    Oct 26, 2017

    19,955

    Yeah I remember seeing that AI store slop when I booted up S4, and they wonder why they're driving players away
     

    Tommy Showbiz
    Member

    Jul 20, 2022

    3,727

    This is pretty corny, but I was honestly expecting ads for like Dr. Squatch and not just prodding you to buy in-game bundles.
     

    Apathy
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    13,538

    So the biggest game, created by the biggest publisher, paced by the riches company in the world needs to slide ads into their paid games. Lovely
     

    DarkJ
    Member

    Nov 11, 2017

    1,918

    Ai slop? Ads in the menus? In a fully priced game?

    Really just making sure I don't even look at the next game. 

    T88heon
    Member

    Aug 26, 2024

    1,042

    This is a profitability issue coupled with horrendous stewardship of the ip.

    If the retail side was profitable would they need to stealthily run ads in "COD" of all ip?

     

    DSync
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    884

    Black Ops 6 in 2025 after the most recent update for Season 4

    > £70 for the base game
    > £100 for the "Vault Editon"
    > £50/60 for a year of PS Plus to play the game online
    > £10 for the Battlepass
    > £15 for the Battlepass plus tier skips
    > £25 for the "Blackcell" Battlepass
    > Free and PremiumBattlepasses for the Seth Rogan Operator Weed event
    > £16-25 Weapon and Operator bundles
    > AI art in the emblems, calling cards, posters in certain levels
    > Ads for bundles in creating a Loadout
    > Server instability issues
    > Whole game crashes to desktop/homescreen when editing your loadout during a match
    > UI Menu lagging
    > Cheaters, hackers run rampant
    > Store will 100% work no matter what 

    Pai Pai Master
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    37,298

    Atlanta GA

    AI crap and ads, yet people will still buy this shit in record numbers every year
     
    #ign #activision #quietly #force #adverts
    IGN: Activision Quietly Force Adverts into Call of Duty Black Ops 6 and Warzone Loadouts and Players Absolutely Hate It
    Xando Member Oct 28, 2017 38,006 With the launch of Call of Duty Season 4, Activision quietly put adverts inside loadouts for Black Ops 6 and Warzone, sparking a backlash in the process. Activision already has a bad reputation for the aggressive monetization of the premium Black Ops 6 and its free-to-play battle royale Warzone, but this latest move may have tipped some players over the edge. Following the launch of Season 4, adverts for weapon bundles can be seen in the build and weapon menus. These are unavoidable for players as they tinker with their loadouts. Elsewhere, Activision has added bundle and Battle Pass advertisements to the Events tab, another controversial change that has caused complaints. Here's a snippet of the response, sourced from across Call of Duty subreddits, Discords, and social media: I wouldn't even be mad if this was just in Warzone, a free game, but putting it in a pay-to-play premium title, with how expensive they're getting? F**k off. This game is still 80€ I get that they make most of their money from the store, but I feel like the bare minimum for a premium product would be to not have ads clogging the menus right? At this point it really feels like opening up a mobile game with how much more you see an option to buy anything in this game. Anyone who wanted this bundle would've checked the store and bought it. Putting it here isn't gonna make more people buy it, its justannoying. Just wait until they add pop up ads for bundles while you are playing the game. Click to expand... Click to shrink... More including some examples here: Activision Quietly Force Adverts into Call of Duty Black Ops 6 and Warzone Loadouts and Players Absolutely Hate It: 'At This Point It Really Feels Like Opening Up a Mobile Game' - IGN With the launch of Call of Duty Season 4, Activision quietly put adverts inside loadouts for Black Ops 6 and Warzone, sparking a backlash in the process. www.ign.com   Gaspode Member Jan 17, 2025 152 gross   MarcosBrXD Member Aug 28, 2024 1,779 Crazy one of the biggest IPs doing this   Wallace Member Oct 25, 2017 28,182 Midwest What a shit franchise.   Shirkelton Member Aug 20, 2020 6,976 Fuck that.   MinerArcaniner Uncle Works at Nintendo Member Oct 29, 2017 7,473 The revenue line has to keep going up. There's no such thing as "enough" with corporations.   Kinthey Avenger Oct 27, 2017 25,551 Poor Cod really needs the money to keep the lights on   skullmuffins Member Oct 25, 2017 7,615 oh, ads for in-game microtransactions. guess i'm not surprised. that's where all the money is these days.   Remark Member Oct 27, 2017 4,184 Yeah the ads are so bad this season. When you boot up the game in CoD HQ, theres a big ass button for Blackcell and BO6 and WZ are all the way on the right side of the menu. It's so annoying. Huge disrespect to the people who actually bought the game. I wish CoD HQ would go away, it doesn't even actually help with anything and actually hampers the UX experience in a lot of ways especially on PC.  Last edited: Today at 10:14 AM LiquidDom Avenger Oct 27, 2017 2,730 Wait it's just ads for the in-game purchases? Not outside ads that have nothing to do with the game? I don't have that much of an issue with it, still shit though.  Richietto One Winged Slayer Member Oct 25, 2017 26,147 North Carolina Lmao what a joke   Loxley Prophet of Truth Member Oct 25, 2017 10,702 We're inching closer and closer to this scene from Ready Player One. "We estimate we can sell up to 80% of an individual's visual field before inducing seizures" View:   Fabs Member Aug 22, 2019 2,780 This doesn't seem that different than like Fortnite advertising the shop updates in the main menu. It's fairly harmless.   Noisepurge Corrupted by Vengeance Member Oct 25, 2017 9,775 Fabs said: This doesn't seem that different than like Fortnite advertising the shop updates in the main menu. It's fairly harmless. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Fortnite doesn't cost 80$  OP OP Xando Member Oct 28, 2017 38,006 LiquidDom said: Wait it's just ads for the in-game purchases? Not outside ads that have nothing to do with the game? I don't have that much of an issue with it, still shit though. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Considering half of the in-game purchases are basically ads for some brands or characters that have nothing to do with COD it's basically the same thing   Remark Member Oct 27, 2017 4,184 Noisepurge said: Fortnite doesn't cost 80$ Click to expand... Click to shrink... To be fair, Warzone is F2P but that shit should be in there. Whether you buy the game or not, you have to go through CoD HQ which is so annoying.   Doskoi Panda One Winged Slayer Member Oct 27, 2017 17,314 CoD is so fucking trashy lmao. I will never understand how it remains so popular. It just gets worse year over yesr, even Warzone.   SunBroDave "This guy are sick" Member Oct 25, 2017 15,148 How else is COD supposed to make money   Decarb Member Oct 27, 2017 9,264 Fabs said: This doesn't seem that different than like Fortnite advertising the shop updates in the main menu. It's fairly harmless. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Not only is it in a full priced mode, but its also in the weapon customization menu where you least expect it.   Agni Kai Member Nov 2, 2017 10,037 Only Battlefield 6 can save us now. Hold the line, my friends. Hold the line.   jroc74 Member Oct 27, 2017 34,177 Yeah I dont think it needs to be this aggressive. LiquidDom said: Wait it's just ads for the in-game purchases? Not outside ads that have nothing to do with the game? I don't have that much of an issue with it, still shit though. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Fabs said: This doesn't seem that different than like Fortnite advertising the shop updates in the main menu. It's fairly harmless. Click to expand... Click to shrink... While trying to play the game tho? "Following the launch of Season 4, adverts for weapon bundles can be seen in the build and weapon menus. These are unavoidable for players as they tinker with their loadouts." Imagine getting hit with Shark Card ads while browsing the in game stores in GTA Online....please Rockstar dont do this. Noisepurge said: Fortnite doesn't cost 80$ Click to expand... Click to shrink... Also this.  BradleyLove Member Oct 29, 2017 1,661 Doesn't surprise me. I bought Forza Horizon for PS5 a few days ago and was shocked to encounter unskippable ads for DLC. The American obsession with forcing ads everywhere they can is horrible. This reply was brought to you by NEW Mountain Dew—new look, same bold refreshing flavour.  TransEuropaExpress Member Dec 6, 2017 11,420 US They should go all in and start doing random 5-minute commercial breaks in the middle of rounds.   Pyro God help us the mods are making weekend threads Member Jul 30, 2018 18,922 United States Really fucking gross.   Vourlis Member Aug 14, 2022 5,911 United States I...where are the ads? edit: Oh like advertising the bundles or whatever. Okay.  jroc74 Member Oct 27, 2017 34,177 BradleyLove said: Doesn't surprise me. I bought Forza Horizon for PS5 a few days ago and was shocked to encounter unskippable ads for DLC. The American obsession with forcing ads everywhere they can is horrible. This reply was brought to you by NEW Mountain Dew—new look, same bold refreshing flavour. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I either forgot how it was or just didnt know, because I played it on XSX when it launched. But I was and am shocked at the mtx in FH5.  shadowman16 Member Oct 25, 2017 41,804 I feel like this has already become too normalised because I honestly assumed we were talking about unrelated product ads... Meanwhile the examples above... honestly I kinda expected. Granted the article also points it out perfectly that if it were just in Warzoneit'd be... less bad, but charging however much for COD THEN pushing those ads on you... you just know people will crack. Not the worst example of ads in games though, I still give that to SFVI's Turtles costumes, aside the cost, having that damn song playing constantly in the battle hub for monthon end drove me nuts at the time.  Papaya The Fallen Oct 25, 2017 2,735 California The financial model for CoD is awful and lacks any sort of creativity. They just copied fortnite even though it doesn't work for a military shooter. They rarely release any good content because it either doesn't match the game's tone, or it sucks. It just doesn't lend itself well to skins, and other visual customization options. Or maybe they just don't know how to make good. Either way, I've never seen a more boring battlepass in my life. CoD can be a super fun action game, but it's never felt more hollow and lifeless. The best counter-example to "games are art" I've ever seen.  BestBrand Member Mar 5, 2025 457 Call of duty is the worst man. I may not even buy another COD again.   MerluzaSamus Member Dec 3, 2018 1,471 Argentina Agni Kai said: Only Battlefield 6 can save us now. Hold the line, my friends. Hold the line. Click to expand... Click to shrink... The game published by EA to gather obscene money on the fps market? That one Battlefield? Jokes aside, 'fraid this is going to be the norm long term, Fortnite normalized it and publishers with less restraint are going wild, same with AI. At least on the AAA market.  Lumination Member Oct 26, 2017 16,064 Who could have expected them giving the game away would have affected the revenue stream and business model of the game itself.   Geeko Member Oct 27, 2017 1,413 San Jose, CA Lame as hell. The problem is that the masses won't care about it and will still spend crap tons of money on this game thus continuing this constant bombardment of ads.   shadowman16 Member Oct 25, 2017 41,804 Agni Kai said: Only Battlefield 6 can save us now. Hold the line, my friends. Hold the line. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Gameplay wise, Hopefully Dice will take the time and make something truly special. However... I wouldnt expect much better from EA of all publishers. They are every bit as summy...  OP OP Xando Member Oct 28, 2017 38,006 My guess is this is only going to get worse as MS tries to make up the lost revenue from people playing via GP instead of buying   SP. Member Oct 27, 2017 8,578 I guess I thought it would be worse than the reaction seems to suggest… They're in-game micro transaction ads and for the most are for weapon skins which naturally don't seem that out of place in a weapon selection menu. It's not like they're advertising a Burger King Whopper in here. Obviously it'd be better if they weren't there at all but honestly if I played the game and saw these I wouldn't think it's anything out of the ordinary.  Ravelle Member Oct 31, 2017 20,432 Noisepurge said: Fortnite doesn't cost 80$ Click to expand... Click to shrink... It doesn't spam you with multiple windows to buy something either  Rosebud Two Pieces Member Apr 16, 2018 51,386 Wallace said: What a shit franchise. Click to expand... Click to shrink... .   Kyokanto Member Mar 4, 2025 493 For a second I thought this was going to be McDonald's ads or something lol. I wonder how far off that is… Still scummy as is.  Pop-O-Matic Avenger Oct 25, 2017 14,007 MarcosBrXD said: Crazy one of the biggest IPs doing this Click to expand... Click to shrink... Not really. CoD might move more money than most of the rest of the industry put together, but capitalismdemands that the line must always be going up, and there isn't really much CoD can do to grow the player base in any significant way in the short-to-medium term, so they're going to start trying out shit like this to get even more money out of the existing players so the line goes up and the shareholders can be happy.   Fabs Member Aug 22, 2019 2,780 Noisepurge said: Fortnite doesn't cost 80$ Click to expand... Click to shrink... Decarb said: Not only is it in a full priced mode, but its also in the weapon customization menu where you least expect it. Click to expand... Click to shrink... jroc74 said: Yeah I dont think it needs to be this aggressive. While trying to play the game tho? "Following the launch of Season 4, adverts for weapon bundles can be seen in the build and weapon menus. These are unavoidable for players as they tinker with their loadouts." Imagine getting hit with Shark Card ads while browsing the in game stores in GTA Online....please Rockstar dont do this. Also this. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Full priced games advertise their dlc in menus all the time. Is it because it's in a new place? Is this that different than having the paid operators in the menu for selection like they have in past CoD? Or when I play Street Fighter and I can't pick Akuma because he costs money? I get it if it was for McDonalds but this seems like rage bait.  Plexas Member Jan 24, 2025 289 Several trillion dollar company needs some money to survive, please understand.   Twister Member Feb 11, 2019 6,692 This franchise peaked with BO3. Everything after has been a disaster   Vertigo1 Member Jun 30, 2023 1,093 CoD will never be as good as it was in the 360 era, ever again.   Sordid Plebeian Member Oct 26, 2017 19,955 Yeah I remember seeing that AI store slop when I booted up S4, and they wonder why they're driving players away   Tommy Showbiz Member Jul 20, 2022 3,727 This is pretty corny, but I was honestly expecting ads for like Dr. Squatch and not just prodding you to buy in-game bundles.   Apathy Member Oct 25, 2017 13,538 So the biggest game, created by the biggest publisher, paced by the riches company in the world needs to slide ads into their paid games. Lovely   DarkJ Member Nov 11, 2017 1,918 Ai slop? Ads in the menus? In a fully priced game? Really just making sure I don't even look at the next game.  T88heon Member Aug 26, 2024 1,042 This is a profitability issue coupled with horrendous stewardship of the ip. If the retail side was profitable would they need to stealthily run ads in "COD" of all ip? 😬  DSync Member Oct 27, 2017 884 Black Ops 6 in 2025 after the most recent update for Season 4 > £70 for the base game > £100 for the "Vault Editon" > £50/60 for a year of PS Plus to play the game online > £10 for the Battlepass > £15 for the Battlepass plus tier skips > £25 for the "Blackcell" Battlepass > Free and PremiumBattlepasses for the Seth Rogan Operator Weed event > £16-25 Weapon and Operator bundles > AI art in the emblems, calling cards, posters in certain levels > Ads for bundles in creating a Loadout > Server instability issues > Whole game crashes to desktop/homescreen when editing your loadout during a match > UI Menu lagging > Cheaters, hackers run rampant > Store will 100% work no matter what  Pai Pai Master Member Oct 25, 2017 37,298 Atlanta GA AI crap and ads, yet people will still buy this shit in record numbers every year   #ign #activision #quietly #force #adverts
    WWW.RESETERA.COM
    IGN: Activision Quietly Force Adverts into Call of Duty Black Ops 6 and Warzone Loadouts and Players Absolutely Hate It
    Xando Member Oct 28, 2017 38,006 With the launch of Call of Duty Season 4, Activision quietly put adverts inside loadouts for Black Ops 6 and Warzone, sparking a backlash in the process. Activision already has a bad reputation for the aggressive monetization of the premium Black Ops 6 and its free-to-play battle royale Warzone, but this latest move may have tipped some players over the edge. Following the launch of Season 4, adverts for weapon bundles can be seen in the build and weapon menus. These are unavoidable for players as they tinker with their loadouts. Elsewhere, Activision has added bundle and Battle Pass advertisements to the Events tab, another controversial change that has caused complaints. Here's a snippet of the response, sourced from across Call of Duty subreddits, Discords, and social media: I wouldn't even be mad if this was just in Warzone, a free game, but putting it in a pay-to-play premium title, with how expensive they're getting? F**k off. This game is still 80€ I get that they make most of their money from the store, but I feel like the bare minimum for a premium product would be to not have ads clogging the menus right? At this point it really feels like opening up a mobile game with how much more you see an option to buy anything in this game. Anyone who wanted this bundle would've checked the store and bought it. Putting it here isn't gonna make more people buy it, its justannoying. Just wait until they add pop up ads for bundles while you are playing the game. Click to expand... Click to shrink... More including some examples here: Activision Quietly Force Adverts into Call of Duty Black Ops 6 and Warzone Loadouts and Players Absolutely Hate It: 'At This Point It Really Feels Like Opening Up a Mobile Game' - IGN With the launch of Call of Duty Season 4, Activision quietly put adverts inside loadouts for Black Ops 6 and Warzone, sparking a backlash in the process. www.ign.com   Gaspode Member Jan 17, 2025 152 gross   MarcosBrXD Member Aug 28, 2024 1,779 Crazy one of the biggest IPs doing this   Wallace Member Oct 25, 2017 28,182 Midwest What a shit franchise.   Shirkelton Member Aug 20, 2020 6,976 Fuck that.   MinerArcaniner Uncle Works at Nintendo Member Oct 29, 2017 7,473 The revenue line has to keep going up. There's no such thing as "enough" with corporations.   Kinthey Avenger Oct 27, 2017 25,551 Poor Cod really needs the money to keep the lights on   skullmuffins Member Oct 25, 2017 7,615 oh, ads for in-game microtransactions. guess i'm not surprised. that's where all the money is these days.   Remark Member Oct 27, 2017 4,184 Yeah the ads are so bad this season. When you boot up the game in CoD HQ, theres a big ass button for Blackcell and BO6 and WZ are all the way on the right side of the menu. It's so annoying. Huge disrespect to the people who actually bought the game. I wish CoD HQ would go away, it doesn't even actually help with anything and actually hampers the UX experience in a lot of ways especially on PC.  Last edited: Today at 10:14 AM LiquidDom Avenger Oct 27, 2017 2,730 Wait it's just ads for the in-game purchases? Not outside ads that have nothing to do with the game? I don't have that much of an issue with it, still shit though.  Richietto One Winged Slayer Member Oct 25, 2017 26,147 North Carolina Lmao what a joke   Loxley Prophet of Truth Member Oct 25, 2017 10,702 We're inching closer and closer to this scene from Ready Player One. "We estimate we can sell up to 80% of an individual's visual field before inducing seizures" View: https://youtu.be/KpPE85Jogjw?si=Di0mlmiF27KidwWs  Fabs Member Aug 22, 2019 2,780 This doesn't seem that different than like Fortnite advertising the shop updates in the main menu. It's fairly harmless.   Noisepurge Corrupted by Vengeance Member Oct 25, 2017 9,775 Fabs said: This doesn't seem that different than like Fortnite advertising the shop updates in the main menu. It's fairly harmless. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Fortnite doesn't cost 80$  OP OP Xando Member Oct 28, 2017 38,006 LiquidDom said: Wait it's just ads for the in-game purchases? Not outside ads that have nothing to do with the game? I don't have that much of an issue with it, still shit though. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Considering half of the in-game purchases are basically ads for some brands or characters that have nothing to do with COD it's basically the same thing   Remark Member Oct 27, 2017 4,184 Noisepurge said: Fortnite doesn't cost 80$ Click to expand... Click to shrink... To be fair, Warzone is F2P but that shit should be in there. Whether you buy the game or not, you have to go through CoD HQ which is so annoying.   Doskoi Panda One Winged Slayer Member Oct 27, 2017 17,314 CoD is so fucking trashy lmao. I will never understand how it remains so popular. It just gets worse year over yesr, even Warzone.   SunBroDave "This guy are sick" Member Oct 25, 2017 15,148 How else is COD supposed to make money   Decarb Member Oct 27, 2017 9,264 Fabs said: This doesn't seem that different than like Fortnite advertising the shop updates in the main menu. It's fairly harmless. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Not only is it in a full priced mode, but its also in the weapon customization menu where you least expect it.   Agni Kai Member Nov 2, 2017 10,037 Only Battlefield 6 can save us now. Hold the line, my friends. Hold the line.   jroc74 Member Oct 27, 2017 34,177 Yeah I dont think it needs to be this aggressive. LiquidDom said: Wait it's just ads for the in-game purchases? Not outside ads that have nothing to do with the game? I don't have that much of an issue with it, still shit though. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Fabs said: This doesn't seem that different than like Fortnite advertising the shop updates in the main menu. It's fairly harmless. Click to expand... Click to shrink... While trying to play the game tho? "Following the launch of Season 4, adverts for weapon bundles can be seen in the build and weapon menus. These are unavoidable for players as they tinker with their loadouts." Imagine getting hit with Shark Card ads while browsing the in game stores in GTA Online....please Rockstar dont do this. Noisepurge said: Fortnite doesn't cost 80$ Click to expand... Click to shrink... Also this.  BradleyLove Member Oct 29, 2017 1,661 Doesn't surprise me. I bought Forza Horizon for PS5 a few days ago and was shocked to encounter unskippable ads for DLC. The American obsession with forcing ads everywhere they can is horrible. This reply was brought to you by NEW Mountain Dew—new look, same bold refreshing flavour.  TransEuropaExpress Member Dec 6, 2017 11,420 US They should go all in and start doing random 5-minute commercial breaks in the middle of rounds.   Pyro God help us the mods are making weekend threads Member Jul 30, 2018 18,922 United States Really fucking gross.   Vourlis Member Aug 14, 2022 5,911 United States I...where are the ads? edit: Oh like advertising the bundles or whatever. Okay.  jroc74 Member Oct 27, 2017 34,177 BradleyLove said: Doesn't surprise me. I bought Forza Horizon for PS5 a few days ago and was shocked to encounter unskippable ads for DLC. The American obsession with forcing ads everywhere they can is horrible. This reply was brought to you by NEW Mountain Dew—new look, same bold refreshing flavour. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I either forgot how it was or just didnt know, because I played it on XSX when it launched. But I was and am shocked at the mtx in FH5.  shadowman16 Member Oct 25, 2017 41,804 I feel like this has already become too normalised because I honestly assumed we were talking about unrelated product ads... Meanwhile the examples above... honestly I kinda expected. Granted the article also points it out perfectly that if it were just in Warzone (free) it'd be... less bad, but charging however much for COD THEN pushing those ads on you... you just know people will crack. Not the worst example of ads in games though, I still give that to SFVI's Turtles costumes, aside the cost, having that damn song playing constantly in the battle hub for month(s) on end drove me nuts at the time.  Papaya The Fallen Oct 25, 2017 2,735 California The financial model for CoD is awful and lacks any sort of creativity. They just copied fortnite even though it doesn't work for a military shooter. They rarely release any good content because it either doesn't match the game's tone, or it sucks. It just doesn't lend itself well to skins, and other visual customization options. Or maybe they just don't know how to make good. Either way, I've never seen a more boring battlepass in my life. CoD can be a super fun action game, but it's never felt more hollow and lifeless. The best counter-example to "games are art" I've ever seen.  BestBrand Member Mar 5, 2025 457 Call of duty is the worst man. I may not even buy another COD again.   MerluzaSamus Member Dec 3, 2018 1,471 Argentina Agni Kai said: Only Battlefield 6 can save us now. Hold the line, my friends. Hold the line. Click to expand... Click to shrink... The game published by EA to gather obscene money on the fps market? That one Battlefield? Jokes aside, 'fraid this is going to be the norm long term, Fortnite normalized it and publishers with less restraint are going wild, same with AI. At least on the AAA market.  Lumination Member Oct 26, 2017 16,064 Who could have expected them giving the game away would have affected the revenue stream and business model of the game itself.   Geeko Member Oct 27, 2017 1,413 San Jose, CA Lame as hell. The problem is that the masses won't care about it and will still spend crap tons of money on this game thus continuing this constant bombardment of ads.   shadowman16 Member Oct 25, 2017 41,804 Agni Kai said: Only Battlefield 6 can save us now. Hold the line, my friends. Hold the line. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Gameplay wise, Hopefully Dice will take the time and make something truly special. However... I wouldnt expect much better from EA of all publishers. They are every bit as summy...  OP OP Xando Member Oct 28, 2017 38,006 My guess is this is only going to get worse as MS tries to make up the lost revenue from people playing via GP instead of buying   SP. Member Oct 27, 2017 8,578 I guess I thought it would be worse than the reaction seems to suggest… They're in-game micro transaction ads and for the most are for weapon skins which naturally don't seem that out of place in a weapon selection menu. It's not like they're advertising a Burger King Whopper in here. Obviously it'd be better if they weren't there at all but honestly if I played the game and saw these I wouldn't think it's anything out of the ordinary.  Ravelle Member Oct 31, 2017 20,432 Noisepurge said: Fortnite doesn't cost 80$ Click to expand... Click to shrink... It doesn't spam you with multiple windows to buy something either  Rosebud Two Pieces Member Apr 16, 2018 51,386 Wallace said: What a shit franchise. Click to expand... Click to shrink... .   Kyokanto Member Mar 4, 2025 493 For a second I thought this was going to be McDonald's ads or something lol. I wonder how far off that is… Still scummy as is.  Pop-O-Matic Avenger Oct 25, 2017 14,007 MarcosBrXD said: Crazy one of the biggest IPs doing this Click to expand... Click to shrink... Not really. CoD might move more money than most of the rest of the industry put together, but capitalism (especially at publicly traded mega corps like MS and ActiBlizz before them) demands that the line must always be going up, and there isn't really much CoD can do to grow the player base in any significant way in the short-to-medium term, so they're going to start trying out shit like this to get even more money out of the existing players so the line goes up and the shareholders can be happy.   Fabs Member Aug 22, 2019 2,780 Noisepurge said: Fortnite doesn't cost 80$ Click to expand... Click to shrink... Decarb said: Not only is it in a full priced mode, but its also in the weapon customization menu where you least expect it. Click to expand... Click to shrink... jroc74 said: Yeah I dont think it needs to be this aggressive. While trying to play the game tho? "Following the launch of Season 4, adverts for weapon bundles can be seen in the build and weapon menus. These are unavoidable for players as they tinker with their loadouts." Imagine getting hit with Shark Card ads while browsing the in game stores in GTA Online....please Rockstar dont do this. Also this. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Full priced games advertise their dlc in menus all the time. Is it because it's in a new place? Is this that different than having the paid operators in the menu for selection like they have in past CoD? Or when I play Street Fighter and I can't pick Akuma because he costs money? I get it if it was for McDonalds but this seems like rage bait.  Plexas Member Jan 24, 2025 289 Several trillion dollar company needs some money to survive, please understand.   Twister Member Feb 11, 2019 6,692 This franchise peaked with BO3. Everything after has been a disaster   Vertigo1 Member Jun 30, 2023 1,093 CoD will never be as good as it was in the 360 era, ever again.   Sordid Plebeian Member Oct 26, 2017 19,955 Yeah I remember seeing that AI store slop when I booted up S4, and they wonder why they're driving players away   Tommy Showbiz Member Jul 20, 2022 3,727 This is pretty corny, but I was honestly expecting ads for like Dr. Squatch and not just prodding you to buy in-game bundles.   Apathy Member Oct 25, 2017 13,538 So the biggest game, created by the biggest publisher, paced by the riches company in the world needs to slide ads into their paid games. Lovely   DarkJ Member Nov 11, 2017 1,918 Ai slop? Ads in the menus? In a fully priced game? Really just making sure I don't even look at the next game.  T88heon Member Aug 26, 2024 1,042 This is a profitability issue coupled with horrendous stewardship of the ip. If the retail side was profitable would they need to stealthily run ads in "COD" of all ip? 😬  DSync Member Oct 27, 2017 884 Black Ops 6 in 2025 after the most recent update for Season 4 > £70 for the base game > £100 for the "Vault Editon" > £50/60 for a year of PS Plus to play the game online > £10 for the Battlepass > £15 for the Battlepass plus tier skips > £25 for the "Blackcell" Battlepass > Free and Premium (Costs money) Battlepasses for the Seth Rogan Operator Weed event > £16-25 Weapon and Operator bundles > AI art in the emblems, calling cards, posters in certain levels > Ads for bundles in creating a Loadout > Server instability issues > Whole game crashes to desktop/homescreen when editing your loadout during a match > UI Menu lagging > Cheaters, hackers run rampant > Store will 100% work no matter what (Prices for everything may not be exact)  Pai Pai Master Member Oct 25, 2017 37,298 Atlanta GA AI crap and ads, yet people will still buy this shit in record numbers every year  
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  • [Automaton] “If we don’t make new IPs, we’ll die,” NIS believes mid-size developers need to do what the big guns can’t

    amara
    Member

    Nov 23, 2021

    5,532

    “If we don’t make new IPs, we’ll die,” Nippon Ichi Software believes mid-size developers need to do what the big guns can’t - AUTOMATON WEST

    Nippon Ichi Software’s new CEO Kenzo Saruhashi and Yomawari series creator Yu Mizokami talk about the company’s policy when it comes to making new IPs.

    automaton-media.com

    Disgaea series developer Nippon Ichi Softwareheld a live program in March during which it announced six new titles slated for launch in 2025 and 2026. Except for Fuuraiki 5 – the latest entry in the Fuuraiki travel game series – all of the announced projects were brand-new IPs, which NIS fans were happy to see. In a recent interview with Famitsu, Nippon Ichi Software's new CEO Kenzo Saruhashi and Yomawari series creator Yu Mizokami talked about the company's policy when it comes to making new IPs amidst the rising costs of development and risk of failure.

    From a business perspective, Saruhashi notes, making a sequel is the easier option for game companies, as you can predict sales and profit margins more reliably. "But in our case, we're more driven by whether our fans want a sequel or. If there's demand for, we'll make it."

    On the other hand, making new IPs seems like a non-negotiable for NIS, as Saruhashi comments, "On the flip side, if we were to stop taking on new challenges, we would be like a fish out of water – I think we'd die." Although it may sound dramatic, there is a sound strategy behind this – Saruhashi explains that with NIS being a mid-size company, its survival depends on daring to do the things big companies can't risk trying. This approach has worked for them too, as projects like Yomawarifound their audiences and turned out successful.

    That said, NIS isn't managing to miraculously avoid the issue of rising development costs – in the face of financial constraints, the company is limiting budgets for its more experimental titles and relying on its devs to come up with creative workarounds. Interestingly, Mizokami comments that even if she were suddenly given a multi-million budget to work with, she'd "probably get bored halfway through," preferring the thrill of problem-solving that comes with working on a tight budget. In contrast to triple-A game development, Saruhashi and Mizokami refer to NIS's approach as "speedrun/real-time attck-style game development."
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

     

    RGB
    Member

    Nov 13, 2017

    814

    On the one hand, I applaud the sentiment. But on the other. I just want a good Disgaea from them if they can build upon the rocky start moving to 3D.
     

    Desma
    "This guy are sick"
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    6,779

    Niikawa used to talk like that, so the company's in good hands at least.

    Just wonder what happened to their localizations. They completely stopped last year except PB2. 

    t26
    Avenger

    Oct 27, 2017

    5,380

    Will the new CEO consider localizing their VNs?
     

    robotnikus
    Member

    Oct 24, 2023

    693

    t26 said:

    Will the new CEO consider localizing their VNs?

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Hope so.
     

    Theswweet
    RPG Site
    Verified

    Oct 25, 2017

    7,293

    California

    Desma said:

    Niikawa used to talk like that, so the company's in good hands at least.

    Just wonder what happened to their localizations. They completely stopped last year except PB2.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Last I heard NISA's localization teams are now focused around their Falcom releases for the most part. 

    Desma
    "This guy are sick"
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    6,779

    Theswweet said:

    Last I heard NISA's localization teams are now focused around their Falcom releases for the most part.

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Yeah, no doubt they put everybody on Trails to catch up
     

    Theswweet
    RPG Site
    Verified

    Oct 25, 2017

    7,293

    California

    Desma said:

    Yeah, no doubt they put everybody on Trails to catch up

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    I mean, I know no less than 4 people who worked at Geofront that are currently salaried NISA employees, if I recall correctly. 

    Shard Shinjuku
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    31,607

    Tampa

    There is a certain irony here given NIS needs to rely on Disgaea to survive.
     

    Last edited: Today at 12:58 AM

    Pyro
    God help us the mods are making weekend threads
    Member

    Jul 30, 2018

    18,913

    United States

    It is a shame that most new ideas have come from small indies to mid-tier games for... a long ass time now. Over a decade? Even with new IPs made in the PS4 generation, I struggle to think of many that are breaking new ground or just original to the point of feeling that way.
     

    Ckoerner
    Member

    Aug 7, 2019

    979

    RGB said:

    On the one hand, I applaud the sentiment. But on the other. I just want a good Disgaea from them if they can build upon the rocky start moving to 3D.

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Seven was good. Worth playing IMHO.
     

    CladInShadows
    Member

    May 2, 2024

    301

    I really hope they make another Labyrinth game
     

    RGB
    Member

    Nov 13, 2017

    814

    Ckoerner said:

    Seven was good. Worth playing IMHO.

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Definitely better than six, but it's not the most positive thing that I can't remember if I even finished the story.

    Ultimately even if I thought it was potentially cool on paper the automation stuff wasn't for me, especially in the post game. In six, at least, maybe it works better in seven?

    For reference my personal high bar for post game would be five or four depending on the day you asked. 

    Liam Allen-Miller
    Member

    Nov 2, 2017

    8,023

    Shibuya

    It's frustrating that NIS has legit taken so many stabs at new IPs but hardly anything has landed at all.
     

    Chev
    Member

    Mar 1, 2021

    848

    Shard Shinjuku said:

    There is a certain irony here given NIS needs to rely on Disgaea to survive.

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Yeah, but they do try new IPs all the time too.
     

    Strings
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    34,620

    Liam Allen-Miller said:

    It's frustrating that NIS has legit taken so many stabs at new IPs but hardly anything has landed at all.

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Iunno, it's hard to be positive about the games even if they're new IP. Bar Stella Abyss, Monster Menu, Poison Control, etc are all just kinda ass.
     

    Liam Allen-Miller
    Member

    Nov 2, 2017

    8,023

    Shibuya

    Strings said:

    Iunno, it's hard to be positive about the games even if they're new IP. Bar Stella Abyss, Monster Menu, Poison Control, etc are all just kinda ass.

    Click to expand...
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    Certainly! My frustration is on both sides of the equation. Like they actually go to the effort to make lots of new stuff and for one reason or another very few make it. :didnt even localize stella abyss i thought it looked decent

    everything else yeah just kind of mediocre 
    #automaton #dont #make #new #ips
    [Automaton] “If we don’t make new IPs, we’ll die,” NIS believes mid-size developers need to do what the big guns can’t
    amara Member Nov 23, 2021 5,532 “If we don’t make new IPs, we’ll die,” Nippon Ichi Software believes mid-size developers need to do what the big guns can’t - AUTOMATON WEST Nippon Ichi Software’s new CEO Kenzo Saruhashi and Yomawari series creator Yu Mizokami talk about the company’s policy when it comes to making new IPs. automaton-media.com Disgaea series developer Nippon Ichi Softwareheld a live program in March during which it announced six new titles slated for launch in 2025 and 2026. Except for Fuuraiki 5 – the latest entry in the Fuuraiki travel game series – all of the announced projects were brand-new IPs, which NIS fans were happy to see. In a recent interview with Famitsu, Nippon Ichi Software's new CEO Kenzo Saruhashi and Yomawari series creator Yu Mizokami talked about the company's policy when it comes to making new IPs amidst the rising costs of development and risk of failure. From a business perspective, Saruhashi notes, making a sequel is the easier option for game companies, as you can predict sales and profit margins more reliably. "But in our case, we're more driven by whether our fans want a sequel or. If there's demand for, we'll make it." On the other hand, making new IPs seems like a non-negotiable for NIS, as Saruhashi comments, "On the flip side, if we were to stop taking on new challenges, we would be like a fish out of water – I think we'd die." Although it may sound dramatic, there is a sound strategy behind this – Saruhashi explains that with NIS being a mid-size company, its survival depends on daring to do the things big companies can't risk trying. This approach has worked for them too, as projects like Yomawarifound their audiences and turned out successful. That said, NIS isn't managing to miraculously avoid the issue of rising development costs – in the face of financial constraints, the company is limiting budgets for its more experimental titles and relying on its devs to come up with creative workarounds. Interestingly, Mizokami comments that even if she were suddenly given a multi-million budget to work with, she'd "probably get bored halfway through," preferring the thrill of problem-solving that comes with working on a tight budget. In contrast to triple-A game development, Saruhashi and Mizokami refer to NIS's approach as "speedrun/real-time attck-style game development." Click to expand... Click to shrink...   RGB Member Nov 13, 2017 814 On the one hand, I applaud the sentiment. But on the other. I just want a good Disgaea from them if they can build upon the rocky start moving to 3D.   Desma "This guy are sick" Member Oct 27, 2017 6,779 Niikawa used to talk like that, so the company's in good hands at least. Just wonder what happened to their localizations. They completely stopped last year except PB2.  t26 Avenger Oct 27, 2017 5,380 Will the new CEO consider localizing their VNs?   robotnikus Member Oct 24, 2023 693 t26 said: Will the new CEO consider localizing their VNs? Click to expand... Click to shrink... Hope so.   Theswweet RPG Site Verified Oct 25, 2017 7,293 California Desma said: Niikawa used to talk like that, so the company's in good hands at least. Just wonder what happened to their localizations. They completely stopped last year except PB2. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Last I heard NISA's localization teams are now focused around their Falcom releases for the most part.  Desma "This guy are sick" Member Oct 27, 2017 6,779 Theswweet said: Last I heard NISA's localization teams are now focused around their Falcom releases for the most part. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Yeah, no doubt they put everybody on Trails to catch up   Theswweet RPG Site Verified Oct 25, 2017 7,293 California Desma said: Yeah, no doubt they put everybody on Trails to catch up Click to expand... Click to shrink... I mean, I know no less than 4 people who worked at Geofront that are currently salaried NISA employees, if I recall correctly.  Shard Shinjuku Member Oct 25, 2017 31,607 Tampa There is a certain irony here given NIS needs to rely on Disgaea to survive.   Last edited: Today at 12:58 AM Pyro God help us the mods are making weekend threads Member Jul 30, 2018 18,913 United States It is a shame that most new ideas have come from small indies to mid-tier games for... a long ass time now. Over a decade? Even with new IPs made in the PS4 generation, I struggle to think of many that are breaking new ground or just original to the point of feeling that way.   Ckoerner Member Aug 7, 2019 979 RGB said: On the one hand, I applaud the sentiment. But on the other. I just want a good Disgaea from them if they can build upon the rocky start moving to 3D. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Seven was good. Worth playing IMHO.   CladInShadows Member May 2, 2024 301 I really hope they make another Labyrinth game   RGB Member Nov 13, 2017 814 Ckoerner said: Seven was good. Worth playing IMHO. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Definitely better than six, but it's not the most positive thing that I can't remember if I even finished the story. Ultimately even if I thought it was potentially cool on paper the automation stuff wasn't for me, especially in the post game. In six, at least, maybe it works better in seven? For reference my personal high bar for post game would be five or four depending on the day you asked.  Liam Allen-Miller Member Nov 2, 2017 8,023 Shibuya It's frustrating that NIS has legit taken so many stabs at new IPs but hardly anything has landed at all.   Chev Member Mar 1, 2021 848 Shard Shinjuku said: There is a certain irony here given NIS needs to rely on Disgaea to survive. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Yeah, but they do try new IPs all the time too.   Strings Member Oct 27, 2017 34,620 Liam Allen-Miller said: It's frustrating that NIS has legit taken so many stabs at new IPs but hardly anything has landed at all. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Iunno, it's hard to be positive about the games even if they're new IP. Bar Stella Abyss, Monster Menu, Poison Control, etc are all just kinda ass.   Liam Allen-Miller Member Nov 2, 2017 8,023 Shibuya Strings said: Iunno, it's hard to be positive about the games even if they're new IP. Bar Stella Abyss, Monster Menu, Poison Control, etc are all just kinda ass. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Certainly! My frustration is on both sides of the equation. Like they actually go to the effort to make lots of new stuff and for one reason or another very few make it. :didnt even localize stella abyss i thought it looked decent everything else yeah just kind of mediocre  #automaton #dont #make #new #ips
    WWW.RESETERA.COM
    [Automaton] “If we don’t make new IPs, we’ll die,” NIS believes mid-size developers need to do what the big guns can’t
    amara Member Nov 23, 2021 5,532 “If we don’t make new IPs, we’ll die,” Nippon Ichi Software believes mid-size developers need to do what the big guns can’t - AUTOMATON WEST Nippon Ichi Software’s new CEO Kenzo Saruhashi and Yomawari series creator Yu Mizokami talk about the company’s policy when it comes to making new IPs. automaton-media.com Disgaea series developer Nippon Ichi Software (NIS) held a live program in March during which it announced six new titles slated for launch in 2025 and 2026. Except for Fuuraiki 5 – the latest entry in the Fuuraiki travel game series – all of the announced projects were brand-new IPs, which NIS fans were happy to see. In a recent interview with Famitsu, Nippon Ichi Software's new CEO Kenzo Saruhashi and Yomawari series creator Yu Mizokami talked about the company's policy when it comes to making new IPs amidst the rising costs of development and risk of failure. From a business perspective, Saruhashi notes, making a sequel is the easier option for game companies, as you can predict sales and profit margins more reliably. "But in our case, we're more driven by whether our fans want a sequel or. If there's demand for, we'll make it." On the other hand, making new IPs seems like a non-negotiable for NIS, as Saruhashi comments, "On the flip side, if we were to stop taking on new challenges, we would be like a fish out of water – I think we'd die." Although it may sound dramatic, there is a sound strategy behind this – Saruhashi explains that with NIS being a mid-size company, its survival depends on daring to do the things big companies can't risk trying. This approach has worked for them too, as projects like Yomawari (which director Mizokami describes as "a big risk") found their audiences and turned out successful. That said, NIS isn't managing to miraculously avoid the issue of rising development costs – in the face of financial constraints, the company is limiting budgets for its more experimental titles and relying on its devs to come up with creative workarounds. Interestingly, Mizokami comments that even if she were suddenly given a multi-million budget to work with, she'd "probably get bored halfway through," preferring the thrill of problem-solving that comes with working on a tight budget. In contrast to triple-A game development, Saruhashi and Mizokami refer to NIS's approach as "speedrun/real-time attck-style game development." Click to expand... Click to shrink...   RGB Member Nov 13, 2017 814 On the one hand, I applaud the sentiment. But on the other. I just want a good Disgaea from them if they can build upon the rocky start moving to 3D.   Desma "This guy are sick" Member Oct 27, 2017 6,779 Niikawa used to talk like that, so the company's in good hands at least. Just wonder what happened to their localizations. They completely stopped last year except PB2.  t26 Avenger Oct 27, 2017 5,380 Will the new CEO consider localizing their VNs?   robotnikus Member Oct 24, 2023 693 t26 said: Will the new CEO consider localizing their VNs? Click to expand... Click to shrink... Hope so.   Theswweet RPG Site Verified Oct 25, 2017 7,293 California Desma said: Niikawa used to talk like that, so the company's in good hands at least. Just wonder what happened to their localizations. They completely stopped last year except PB2. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Last I heard NISA's localization teams are now focused around their Falcom releases for the most part.  Desma "This guy are sick" Member Oct 27, 2017 6,779 Theswweet said: Last I heard NISA's localization teams are now focused around their Falcom releases for the most part. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Yeah, no doubt they put everybody on Trails to catch up   Theswweet RPG Site Verified Oct 25, 2017 7,293 California Desma said: Yeah, no doubt they put everybody on Trails to catch up Click to expand... Click to shrink... I mean, I know no less than 4 people who worked at Geofront that are currently salaried NISA employees, if I recall correctly.  Shard Shinjuku Member Oct 25, 2017 31,607 Tampa There is a certain irony here given NIS needs to rely on Disgaea to survive.   Last edited: Today at 12:58 AM Pyro God help us the mods are making weekend threads Member Jul 30, 2018 18,913 United States It is a shame that most new ideas have come from small indies to mid-tier games for... a long ass time now. Over a decade? Even with new IPs made in the PS4 generation, I struggle to think of many that are breaking new ground or just original to the point of feeling that way (e.g. Death Stranding).   Ckoerner Member Aug 7, 2019 979 RGB said: On the one hand, I applaud the sentiment. But on the other. I just want a good Disgaea from them if they can build upon the rocky start moving to 3D. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Seven was good. Worth playing IMHO.   CladInShadows Member May 2, 2024 301 I really hope they make another Labyrinth game   RGB Member Nov 13, 2017 814 Ckoerner said: Seven was good. Worth playing IMHO. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Definitely better than six, but it's not the most positive thing that I can't remember if I even finished the story. Ultimately even if I thought it was potentially cool on paper the automation stuff wasn't for me, especially in the post game. In six, at least, maybe it works better in seven? For reference my personal high bar for post game would be five or four depending on the day you asked.  Liam Allen-Miller Member Nov 2, 2017 8,023 Shibuya It's frustrating that NIS has legit taken so many stabs at new IPs but hardly anything has landed at all.   Chev Member Mar 1, 2021 848 Shard Shinjuku said: There is a certain irony here given NIS needs to rely on Disgaea to survive. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Yeah, but they do try new IPs all the time too.   Strings Member Oct 27, 2017 34,620 Liam Allen-Miller said: It's frustrating that NIS has legit taken so many stabs at new IPs but hardly anything has landed at all. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Iunno, it's hard to be positive about the games even if they're new IP. Bar Stella Abyss, Monster Menu, Poison Control, etc are all just kinda ass.   Liam Allen-Miller Member Nov 2, 2017 8,023 Shibuya Strings said: Iunno, it's hard to be positive about the games even if they're new IP. Bar Stella Abyss, Monster Menu, Poison Control, etc are all just kinda ass. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Certainly! My frustration is on both sides of the equation (consumers letting down the great stuff, the poorer stuff letting down themselves). Like they actually go to the effort to make lots of new stuff and for one reason or another very few make it. :(   Rum&coke Member May 19, 2025 97 Is Labyrinth of Refrain the last good new IP NIS made?   hyjonx Member Nov 27, 2022 328 they (NISA) didnt even localize stella abyss i thought it looked decent everything else yeah just kind of mediocre 
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  • Maybe Doom: The Dark Ages didn’t need mechs and dragons after all

    Doom: The Dark Ages gets a lot right with its gameplay. The shield parrying is a welcome addition to the FPS space, and each of its weapons — a personal favorite being the evergreen shotgun — is both useful and fun. The Dark Ages is extremely my thing, too. What’s not working for me, however, are the few sections where the Doom Slayer pilots a giant mech or rides on the back of a dragon-like creature with mechanical, neon wings. Though these sections hit and miss for different reasons, they both don’t seem to fit well alongside the rest of the game’s parry-focused or FPS gameplay.

    Piloting the Atlan will make you feel like you’re playing a Pacific Rim game. The Gundam-sized mech lumbers about the battlefield, destroying bridges and buildings in its way. You mostly use its fists to deal damage, with the occasional stomp attack thrown in. Not giving the mech a chainsaw shield is a curious choice; surely the Doom Slayer’s parry abilities could have worked for the mech’s fisticuffs against skyscraper-sized demons. Instead, the Atlan just scoots out of the way of demon attacks, leading to lackluster melee brawls that don’t capture the kinetic energy of the on-the-ground gameplay.

    At certain points, the Atlan will pick up a giant-ass gun, and this is where the Atlan sections shine. Blowing demons to bits is the name of the game in Doom, and doing so as a mech works well. Oddly, though, the gun charges up when you perfectly dodge enemy attacks, which doesn’t quite make sense as a way for a gun to gain ammo. The Atlan will discard the gun once the arena is cleared, and I was disappointed each time. Let me keep shooting giant demons in the face!

    Ultimately, the Atlan sections end up being very barebones; they have welcome ideas, but the execution lacks. And the dragon levels aren’t any better.

    Piloting the mechanized dragon is where the shoehorning in of The Dark Ages’ melee combat falls apart. On the surface, riding a dragon with laser wings should be dope as all hell. For The Dark Ages, though, much of the gameplay in these sections involves the dragon strafing in place, waiting for an enemy to attack, and dodging out of the way to, once again, charge up its guns. Who knew playing as a freakin’ mecha dragon in a game could feel so… dull? Waiting for a perfect dodge so you can actually deal damage to turrets — of all possible enemies, turrets, really? — is a choice that falls flat, and it sucks the fun out of what should otherwise be an explosive section.

    I did enjoy the parts where your dragon would zoom through the levels shooting at demon aircrafts, though. They felt like pared-down attempts to mimic the core gameplay of space shooters, and an expanded version of these almost-dogfights — that ditched the dodge mechanic — would have been better served as the main focus of the mecha dragon levels.

    Doom: The Dark Ages has plenty of elements that work. Its techno-medieval setting is a win and each weapon in the Doom Slayer’s arsenal is a joy to use — especially the chainsaw shield. Those gameplay highs only further spotlight how the Atlan and dragon sections misfired. They have good ideas in them, but they’re underserved by some puzzling mechanic choices. Next time we get a dragon in a Doom game, let’s hope it feels as powerful — and fun — as the Doom Slayer himself.
    #maybe #doom #dark #ages #didnt
    Maybe Doom: The Dark Ages didn’t need mechs and dragons after all
    Doom: The Dark Ages gets a lot right with its gameplay. The shield parrying is a welcome addition to the FPS space, and each of its weapons — a personal favorite being the evergreen shotgun — is both useful and fun. The Dark Ages is extremely my thing, too. What’s not working for me, however, are the few sections where the Doom Slayer pilots a giant mech or rides on the back of a dragon-like creature with mechanical, neon wings. Though these sections hit and miss for different reasons, they both don’t seem to fit well alongside the rest of the game’s parry-focused or FPS gameplay. Piloting the Atlan will make you feel like you’re playing a Pacific Rim game. The Gundam-sized mech lumbers about the battlefield, destroying bridges and buildings in its way. You mostly use its fists to deal damage, with the occasional stomp attack thrown in. Not giving the mech a chainsaw shield is a curious choice; surely the Doom Slayer’s parry abilities could have worked for the mech’s fisticuffs against skyscraper-sized demons. Instead, the Atlan just scoots out of the way of demon attacks, leading to lackluster melee brawls that don’t capture the kinetic energy of the on-the-ground gameplay. At certain points, the Atlan will pick up a giant-ass gun, and this is where the Atlan sections shine. Blowing demons to bits is the name of the game in Doom, and doing so as a mech works well. Oddly, though, the gun charges up when you perfectly dodge enemy attacks, which doesn’t quite make sense as a way for a gun to gain ammo. The Atlan will discard the gun once the arena is cleared, and I was disappointed each time. Let me keep shooting giant demons in the face! Ultimately, the Atlan sections end up being very barebones; they have welcome ideas, but the execution lacks. And the dragon levels aren’t any better. Piloting the mechanized dragon is where the shoehorning in of The Dark Ages’ melee combat falls apart. On the surface, riding a dragon with laser wings should be dope as all hell. For The Dark Ages, though, much of the gameplay in these sections involves the dragon strafing in place, waiting for an enemy to attack, and dodging out of the way to, once again, charge up its guns. Who knew playing as a freakin’ mecha dragon in a game could feel so… dull? Waiting for a perfect dodge so you can actually deal damage to turrets — of all possible enemies, turrets, really? — is a choice that falls flat, and it sucks the fun out of what should otherwise be an explosive section. I did enjoy the parts where your dragon would zoom through the levels shooting at demon aircrafts, though. They felt like pared-down attempts to mimic the core gameplay of space shooters, and an expanded version of these almost-dogfights — that ditched the dodge mechanic — would have been better served as the main focus of the mecha dragon levels. Doom: The Dark Ages has plenty of elements that work. Its techno-medieval setting is a win and each weapon in the Doom Slayer’s arsenal is a joy to use — especially the chainsaw shield. Those gameplay highs only further spotlight how the Atlan and dragon sections misfired. They have good ideas in them, but they’re underserved by some puzzling mechanic choices. Next time we get a dragon in a Doom game, let’s hope it feels as powerful — and fun — as the Doom Slayer himself. #maybe #doom #dark #ages #didnt
    WWW.POLYGON.COM
    Maybe Doom: The Dark Ages didn’t need mechs and dragons after all
    Doom: The Dark Ages gets a lot right with its gameplay. The shield parrying is a welcome addition to the FPS space, and each of its weapons — a personal favorite being the evergreen shotgun — is both useful and fun. The Dark Ages is extremely my thing, too. What’s not working for me, however, are the few sections where the Doom Slayer pilots a giant mech or rides on the back of a dragon-like creature with mechanical, neon wings. Though these sections hit and miss for different reasons, they both don’t seem to fit well alongside the rest of the game’s parry-focused or FPS gameplay. Piloting the Atlan will make you feel like you’re playing a Pacific Rim game. The Gundam-sized mech lumbers about the battlefield, destroying bridges and buildings in its way. You mostly use its fists to deal damage, with the occasional stomp attack thrown in. Not giving the mech a chainsaw shield is a curious choice; surely the Doom Slayer’s parry abilities could have worked for the mech’s fisticuffs against skyscraper-sized demons. Instead, the Atlan just scoots out of the way of demon attacks, leading to lackluster melee brawls that don’t capture the kinetic energy of the on-the-ground gameplay. At certain points, the Atlan will pick up a giant-ass gun, and this is where the Atlan sections shine. Blowing demons to bits is the name of the game in Doom, and doing so as a mech works well. Oddly, though, the gun charges up when you perfectly dodge enemy attacks, which doesn’t quite make sense as a way for a gun to gain ammo. The Atlan will discard the gun once the arena is cleared, and I was disappointed each time. Let me keep shooting giant demons in the face! Ultimately, the Atlan sections end up being very barebones; they have welcome ideas, but the execution lacks. And the dragon levels aren’t any better. Piloting the mechanized dragon is where the shoehorning in of The Dark Ages’ melee combat falls apart. On the surface, riding a dragon with laser wings should be dope as all hell. For The Dark Ages, though, much of the gameplay in these sections involves the dragon strafing in place, waiting for an enemy to attack, and dodging out of the way to, once again, charge up its guns. Who knew playing as a freakin’ mecha dragon in a game could feel so… dull? Waiting for a perfect dodge so you can actually deal damage to turrets — of all possible enemies, turrets, really? — is a choice that falls flat, and it sucks the fun out of what should otherwise be an explosive section. I did enjoy the parts where your dragon would zoom through the levels shooting at demon aircrafts, though. They felt like pared-down attempts to mimic the core gameplay of space shooters, and an expanded version of these almost-dogfights — that ditched the dodge mechanic — would have been better served as the main focus of the mecha dragon levels. Doom: The Dark Ages has plenty of elements that work. Its techno-medieval setting is a win and each weapon in the Doom Slayer’s arsenal is a joy to use — especially the chainsaw shield. Those gameplay highs only further spotlight how the Atlan and dragon sections misfired. They have good ideas in them, but they’re underserved by some puzzling mechanic choices. Next time we get a dragon in a Doom game, let’s hope it feels as powerful — and fun — as the Doom Slayer himself.
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  • LTTP: Split Fiction - This scored how high on OpenCritic??

    TheDanimal
    победитель победитель куриный ужин
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    878

    The year is 2025, you've finally made it as a journalist for your favorite gaming outlet. It's time for your first big review for a game, Split Fiction by Hazelight Studios. Sweet! you think to yourself I loved A Way Out and It Takes Two, I bet my partner will love to play this game with me! Heck, it might even make for a fun review!

    And then you started playing the game. With writing straight out of your favorite director's least favorite movie and gameplay from your least favorite Mario Party game, Split Fiction makes sure to waste your time in all the wrong ways. Starting to enjoy a gameplay mechanic? Too bad, you only get to do it once. Hate a mechanic? Great news, you have to roll an egg down a hill for the next 30 minutes.

    It's 12 hours before the review is due, and you're sitting on a 6/10 score. You've read the thoughts of your other journalist friends, and they seem to agree with you. The game seems fine, nothing great, nothing terrible. Your partner walks in and asks if they can read your review.
    Partner: Wait, a 6/10?? I thought we had a great time playing this game!?
    You, trying to salvage the situation: I'm so glad we played it together, but I really only liked the pig side story, the centipede section, and the ending section had a cool theme! I wish the whole game had been like that...
    Partner: But you were laughing! You know how much I don't like to play video games, and I had a great time playing this video game! Mio and Zoe were so relatable and fun.
    You: Babe, they had the most formulaic arcs I've ever consumed in media. They were neither relatable nor fun.
    Partner: ...
    You: ...
    You: Ok, how about an 8/10?

    Four days later, the embargo drops
    You: 90?????????? 

    Zips
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    4,058

    What?

    No seriously... what? 

    RoastBeeph
    Member

    Oct 29, 2017

    1,157

    Wtf thread is this? I'm confused.
     

    KZXcellent
    One Winged Slayer
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    4,180

    ???
     

    Soulflarz
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    3,985

    RoastBeeph said:

    Wtf thread is this? I'm confused.

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    LTTP: split fiction isnt fun and how the hell did it score high 

    Lotus
    One Winged Slayer
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    124,193

    Wat
     

    R O T
    Member

    Jan 1, 2021

    5,047

     

    OP

    OP

    TheDanimal
    победитель победитель куриный ужин
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    878

    R O T said:

    it's ok josef i still love and respect you
     

    Ryengeku
    Member

    Oct 26, 2017

    6,207

    California, US

    Yes, the story wasn't anything stellar but the gameplay was even more of a step up from It Takes Two. It still deserves its high score.
     

    Ferrio
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    19,798

    Was my GOTY until Expedition 33 hit. Amazing game. And while the overall story is pretty simple, the characters are well fleshed out. Even if both characters suckedthe gameplay still would justify the scores.
     

    modiz
    Member

    Oct 8, 2018

    19,264

    Funny for me how this LTTP is meant to say the game is not nearly as fun as others make it seem, then proceed to say how your partner seemed to really enjoy all of it, and they even got the impression you enjoyed a lot of it too.

    Seems like you are trying to overly analyze a game that is all about enjoying doing a whole bunch of activities with your friend/partner, and the writing is pretty much on the samelevel as It Takes Two and A Way Out, I didnt feel it is either better or worse than either of them. Its just best enjoyed by messing around and laughing with a friend, and most reviewers treated it like that. 

    Katbobo
    Member

    May 3, 2022

    8,278

    are you drunk are you safe are you okay
     

    SixtyFourBlades
    Teyvat Traveler
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    8,891

    I'm so confused lol
     

    ynthrepic
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    924

    Is this role play or AI?
     

    DespiteTheNora
    Member

    Jan 30, 2025

    1,778

    I didn't play it but I think you really enjoyed it
     

    Mekanos
    ▲ Legend ▲
    Member

    Oct 17, 2018

    48,586

    It's Memorial Day weekend alright
     

    Tom Nook Says...
    Member

    Jan 15, 2019

    7,406

    I mean, yes, the characters were pretty two-dimensional and the game insisted on constantly positioning them as polar opposites to each other in a hokey waybut I don't put much stock into videogame stories, they're a means to an end in most cases. And when it comes to the actual gameplay of Split Fiction, my partner and I had a great time pretty much start to finish. I was constantly pleasantly surprised by the number of ideas and concepts the game throws at you while rarely repeating any of them.
     

    TissueBox
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    12,465

    Urinated States of America

    GOTY!
     

    Chaserjoey
    Keeper of the White Materia
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    9,907

    It deserved a 90 purely based on not having an annoying as fuck romance book popping up all the time.
     

    Papercuts
    Prophet of Truth
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    12,732

    wat

    But yes a game that is 12-15 hours long of engaging, constantly varied coop mechanics that rapid fires ideas while being super polished and breezy resonates with people. 

    Anustart
    9 Million Scovilles
    Avenger

    Nov 12, 2017

    9,692

    Same way I felt about it and It Takes Two. Basic gameplay but it's coop and has high production values.

    Not bad games, but middle of the road for me. 

    OP

    OP

    TheDanimal
    победитель победитель куриный ужин
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    878

    my favorite part was the boss fight where you jump around aimlessly until you can do damage i thought that was neat
     

    Mau
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    3,583

    Can't say I agree with this take at all. Split Fiction is one of most inventive games I've played in years.
     

    Soulflarz
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    3,985

    Anustart said:

    Same way I felt about it and It Takes Two. Basic gameplay but it's coop and has high production values.

    Not bad games, but middle of the road for me.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    I think I enjoyed ITT way way more since it was the first time they did it, both have whatever stories and if ITT was another 10hr longer it would've been painful so doing it all a second time again was...rough... 

    Khaidu
    Member

    Oct 28, 2017

    288

    That's a pretty good way to show how little you know about how reviews work.
     

    Aeana
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    7,574

    Is the point of this roleplay exercise to assert that the game only scored highly because reviewers were bullied by their non-gaming partners?
     

    Awcko
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    74

    If you liked their other games and yet the writing is somehow a sticking point in this one, I really don't know what to tell you.
     

    Hoggle
    Member

    Mar 25, 2021

    6,784

    I've been playing it on and off with a roommate and yeah…

    Maybe it's because I grew up with Split ClScreen games so this isn't that novel an idea, but it's a bunch of 6/10 idea with decent presentation and a godawful story.

    Had the characters not been constant assholes and maybe somewhat humorous, I'd have enjoyed it much more. But I'd rather play Earth Defence Force, Resident Evil 5, or a Halo campaign with my roommate. 

    Vulcano's Assistant
    Member

    Oct 29, 2017

    15,380

    The one disappointing thing about this game is that it just ignores the genres of fiction it builds its narrative around and instead doubles down on video game references, which is not bad because they do it through gameplay and It is a nice love letter to video games throughout, but the whole story being about writers and not exploring any of it just raises your hopes for something that isn't there.

    It is almost like a gamer's idea of what fantasy books and sci fi books are about, but all the fantasy and sci fi they consumed was from video games and not from novels. 

    Faiyaz
    Member

    Nov 30, 2017

    6,675

    Bangladesh

    Artificially intelligent weekend thread
     

    Lampa
    Member

    Feb 13, 2018

    4,009

    Interesting OP.

    Anyway I just think it's far too long. 

    burgervan
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    1,456

    You could write for Hazelight.
     
    #lttp #split #fiction #this #scored
    LTTP: Split Fiction - This scored how high on OpenCritic??
    TheDanimal победитель победитель куриный ужин Member Oct 25, 2017 878 The year is 2025, you've finally made it as a journalist for your favorite gaming outlet. It's time for your first big review for a game, Split Fiction by Hazelight Studios. Sweet! you think to yourself I loved A Way Out and It Takes Two, I bet my partner will love to play this game with me! Heck, it might even make for a fun review! And then you started playing the game. With writing straight out of your favorite director's least favorite movie and gameplay from your least favorite Mario Party game, Split Fiction makes sure to waste your time in all the wrong ways. Starting to enjoy a gameplay mechanic? Too bad, you only get to do it once. Hate a mechanic? Great news, you have to roll an egg down a hill for the next 30 minutes. It's 12 hours before the review is due, and you're sitting on a 6/10 score. You've read the thoughts of your other journalist friends, and they seem to agree with you. The game seems fine, nothing great, nothing terrible. Your partner walks in and asks if they can read your review. Partner: Wait, a 6/10?? I thought we had a great time playing this game!? You, trying to salvage the situation: I'm so glad we played it together, but I really only liked the pig side story, the centipede section, and the ending section had a cool theme! I wish the whole game had been like that... Partner: But you were laughing! You know how much I don't like to play video games, and I had a great time playing this video game! Mio and Zoe were so relatable and fun. You: Babe, they had the most formulaic arcs I've ever consumed in media. They were neither relatable nor fun. Partner: ... You: ... You: Ok, how about an 8/10? Four days later, the embargo drops You: 90??????????  Zips Member Oct 25, 2017 4,058 What? No seriously... what?  RoastBeeph Member Oct 29, 2017 1,157 Wtf thread is this? I'm confused.   KZXcellent One Winged Slayer Member Oct 25, 2017 4,180 ???   Soulflarz Member Oct 25, 2017 3,985 RoastBeeph said: Wtf thread is this? I'm confused. Click to expand... Click to shrink... LTTP: split fiction isnt fun and how the hell did it score high  Lotus One Winged Slayer Member Oct 25, 2017 124,193 Wat   R O T Member Jan 1, 2021 5,047   OP OP TheDanimal победитель победитель куриный ужин Member Oct 25, 2017 878 R O T said: it's ok josef i still love and respect you   Ryengeku Member Oct 26, 2017 6,207 California, US Yes, the story wasn't anything stellar but the gameplay was even more of a step up from It Takes Two. It still deserves its high score.   Ferrio Member Oct 25, 2017 19,798 Was my GOTY until Expedition 33 hit. Amazing game. And while the overall story is pretty simple, the characters are well fleshed out. Even if both characters suckedthe gameplay still would justify the scores.   modiz Member Oct 8, 2018 19,264 Funny for me how this LTTP is meant to say the game is not nearly as fun as others make it seem, then proceed to say how your partner seemed to really enjoy all of it, and they even got the impression you enjoyed a lot of it too. Seems like you are trying to overly analyze a game that is all about enjoying doing a whole bunch of activities with your friend/partner, and the writing is pretty much on the samelevel as It Takes Two and A Way Out, I didnt feel it is either better or worse than either of them. Its just best enjoyed by messing around and laughing with a friend, and most reviewers treated it like that.  Katbobo Member May 3, 2022 8,278 are you drunk are you safe are you okay   SixtyFourBlades Teyvat Traveler Member Oct 27, 2017 8,891 I'm so confused lol   ynthrepic Member Oct 25, 2017 924 Is this role play or AI?   DespiteTheNora Member Jan 30, 2025 1,778 I didn't play it but I think you really enjoyed it   Mekanos ▲ Legend ▲ Member Oct 17, 2018 48,586 It's Memorial Day weekend alright   Tom Nook Says... Member Jan 15, 2019 7,406 I mean, yes, the characters were pretty two-dimensional and the game insisted on constantly positioning them as polar opposites to each other in a hokey waybut I don't put much stock into videogame stories, they're a means to an end in most cases. And when it comes to the actual gameplay of Split Fiction, my partner and I had a great time pretty much start to finish. I was constantly pleasantly surprised by the number of ideas and concepts the game throws at you while rarely repeating any of them.   TissueBox Member Oct 25, 2017 12,465 Urinated States of America GOTY!   Chaserjoey Keeper of the White Materia Member Oct 27, 2017 9,907 It deserved a 90 purely based on not having an annoying as fuck romance book popping up all the time.   Papercuts Prophet of Truth Member Oct 25, 2017 12,732 wat But yes a game that is 12-15 hours long of engaging, constantly varied coop mechanics that rapid fires ideas while being super polished and breezy resonates with people.  Anustart 9 Million Scovilles Avenger Nov 12, 2017 9,692 Same way I felt about it and It Takes Two. Basic gameplay but it's coop and has high production values. Not bad games, but middle of the road for me.  OP OP TheDanimal победитель победитель куриный ужин Member Oct 25, 2017 878 my favorite part was the boss fight where you jump around aimlessly until you can do damage i thought that was neat   Mau Member Oct 25, 2017 3,583 Can't say I agree with this take at all. Split Fiction is one of most inventive games I've played in years.   Soulflarz Member Oct 25, 2017 3,985 Anustart said: Same way I felt about it and It Takes Two. Basic gameplay but it's coop and has high production values. Not bad games, but middle of the road for me. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I think I enjoyed ITT way way more since it was the first time they did it, both have whatever stories and if ITT was another 10hr longer it would've been painful so doing it all a second time again was...rough...  Khaidu Member Oct 28, 2017 288 That's a pretty good way to show how little you know about how reviews work.   Aeana Member Oct 25, 2017 7,574 Is the point of this roleplay exercise to assert that the game only scored highly because reviewers were bullied by their non-gaming partners?   Awcko Member Oct 25, 2017 74 If you liked their other games and yet the writing is somehow a sticking point in this one, I really don't know what to tell you.   Hoggle Member Mar 25, 2021 6,784 I've been playing it on and off with a roommate and yeah… Maybe it's because I grew up with Split ClScreen games so this isn't that novel an idea, but it's a bunch of 6/10 idea with decent presentation and a godawful story. Had the characters not been constant assholes and maybe somewhat humorous, I'd have enjoyed it much more. But I'd rather play Earth Defence Force, Resident Evil 5, or a Halo campaign with my roommate.  Vulcano's Assistant Member Oct 29, 2017 15,380 The one disappointing thing about this game is that it just ignores the genres of fiction it builds its narrative around and instead doubles down on video game references, which is not bad because they do it through gameplay and It is a nice love letter to video games throughout, but the whole story being about writers and not exploring any of it just raises your hopes for something that isn't there. It is almost like a gamer's idea of what fantasy books and sci fi books are about, but all the fantasy and sci fi they consumed was from video games and not from novels.  Faiyaz Member Nov 30, 2017 6,675 Bangladesh Artificially intelligent weekend thread   Lampa Member Feb 13, 2018 4,009 Interesting OP. Anyway I just think it's far too long.  burgervan Member Oct 27, 2017 1,456 You could write for Hazelight.   #lttp #split #fiction #this #scored
    WWW.RESETERA.COM
    LTTP: Split Fiction - This scored how high on OpenCritic??
    TheDanimal победитель победитель куриный ужин Member Oct 25, 2017 878 The year is 2025, you've finally made it as a journalist for your favorite gaming outlet. It's time for your first big review for a game, Split Fiction by Hazelight Studios. Sweet! you think to yourself I loved A Way Out and It Takes Two, I bet my partner will love to play this game with me! Heck, it might even make for a fun review! And then you started playing the game. With writing straight out of your favorite director's least favorite movie and gameplay from your least favorite Mario Party game, Split Fiction makes sure to waste your time in all the wrong ways. Starting to enjoy a gameplay mechanic? Too bad, you only get to do it once. Hate a mechanic? Great news, you have to roll an egg down a hill for the next 30 minutes. It's 12 hours before the review is due, and you're sitting on a 6/10 score. You've read the thoughts of your other journalist friends, and they seem to agree with you. The game seems fine, nothing great, nothing terrible. Your partner walks in and asks if they can read your review. Partner: Wait, a 6/10?? I thought we had a great time playing this game!? You, trying to salvage the situation: I'm so glad we played it together, but I really only liked the pig side story, the centipede section, and the ending section had a cool theme! I wish the whole game had been like that... Partner: But you were laughing! You know how much I don't like to play video games, and I had a great time playing this video game! Mio and Zoe were so relatable and fun. You: Babe, they had the most formulaic arcs I've ever consumed in media. They were neither relatable nor fun. Partner: ... You: ... You: Ok, how about an 8/10? Four days later, the embargo drops You: 90??????????  Zips Member Oct 25, 2017 4,058 What? No seriously... what?  RoastBeeph Member Oct 29, 2017 1,157 Wtf thread is this? I'm confused.   KZXcellent One Winged Slayer Member Oct 25, 2017 4,180 ???   Soulflarz Member Oct 25, 2017 3,985 RoastBeeph said: Wtf thread is this? I'm confused. Click to expand... Click to shrink... LTTP: split fiction isnt fun and how the hell did it score high  Lotus One Winged Slayer Member Oct 25, 2017 124,193 Wat   R O T Member Jan 1, 2021 5,047   OP OP TheDanimal победитель победитель куриный ужин Member Oct 25, 2017 878 R O T said: it's ok josef i still love and respect you   Ryengeku Member Oct 26, 2017 6,207 California, US Yes, the story wasn't anything stellar but the gameplay was even more of a step up from It Takes Two. It still deserves its high score.   Ferrio Member Oct 25, 2017 19,798 Was my GOTY until Expedition 33 hit. Amazing game. And while the overall story is pretty simple, the characters are well fleshed out. Even if both characters sucked (Looking at you It Takes Two) the gameplay still would justify the scores.   modiz Member Oct 8, 2018 19,264 Funny for me how this LTTP is meant to say the game is not nearly as fun as others make it seem, then proceed to say how your partner seemed to really enjoy all of it, and they even got the impression you enjoyed a lot of it too. Seems like you are trying to overly analyze a game that is all about enjoying doing a whole bunch of activities with your friend/partner, and the writing is pretty much on the same (mediocre) level as It Takes Two and A Way Out, I didnt feel it is either better or worse than either of them. Its just best enjoyed by messing around and laughing with a friend, and most reviewers treated it like that.  Katbobo Member May 3, 2022 8,278 are you drunk are you safe are you okay   SixtyFourBlades Teyvat Traveler Member Oct 27, 2017 8,891 I'm so confused lol   ynthrepic Member Oct 25, 2017 924 Is this role play or AI?   DespiteTheNora Member Jan 30, 2025 1,778 I didn't play it but I think you really enjoyed it   Mekanos ▲ Legend ▲ Member Oct 17, 2018 48,586 It's Memorial Day weekend alright   Tom Nook Says... Member Jan 15, 2019 7,406 I mean, yes, the characters were pretty two-dimensional and the game insisted on constantly positioning them as polar opposites to each other in a hokey way ("Oh, you like the city? I could never live there, I love the country!") but I don't put much stock into videogame stories, they're a means to an end in most cases. And when it comes to the actual gameplay of Split Fiction, my partner and I had a great time pretty much start to finish. I was constantly pleasantly surprised by the number of ideas and concepts the game throws at you while rarely repeating any of them.   TissueBox Member Oct 25, 2017 12,465 Urinated States of America GOTY!   Chaserjoey Keeper of the White Materia Member Oct 27, 2017 9,907 It deserved a 90 purely based on not having an annoying as fuck romance book popping up all the time.   Papercuts Prophet of Truth Member Oct 25, 2017 12,732 wat But yes a game that is 12-15 hours long of engaging, constantly varied coop mechanics that rapid fires ideas while being super polished and breezy resonates with people.  Anustart 9 Million Scovilles Avenger Nov 12, 2017 9,692 Same way I felt about it and It Takes Two. Basic gameplay but it's coop and has high production values. Not bad games, but middle of the road for me.  OP OP TheDanimal победитель победитель куриный ужин Member Oct 25, 2017 878 my favorite part was the boss fight where you jump around aimlessly until you can do damage i thought that was neat   Mau Member Oct 25, 2017 3,583 Can't say I agree with this take at all. Split Fiction is one of most inventive games I've played in years.   Soulflarz Member Oct 25, 2017 3,985 Anustart said: Same way I felt about it and It Takes Two. Basic gameplay but it's coop and has high production values. Not bad games, but middle of the road for me. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I think I enjoyed ITT way way more since it was the first time they did it, both have whatever stories and if ITT was another 10hr longer it would've been painful so doing it all a second time again was...rough...  Khaidu Member Oct 28, 2017 288 That's a pretty good way to show how little you know about how reviews work.   Aeana Member Oct 25, 2017 7,574 Is the point of this roleplay exercise to assert that the game only scored highly because reviewers were bullied by their non-gaming partners?   Awcko Member Oct 25, 2017 74 If you liked their other games and yet the writing is somehow a sticking point in this one, I really don't know what to tell you.   Hoggle Member Mar 25, 2021 6,784 I've been playing it on and off with a roommate and yeah… Maybe it's because I grew up with Split ClScreen games so this isn't that novel an idea, but it's a bunch of 6/10 idea with decent presentation and a godawful story. Had the characters not been constant assholes and maybe somewhat humorous, I'd have enjoyed it much more. But I'd rather play Earth Defence Force, Resident Evil 5, or a Halo campaign with my roommate.  Vulcano's Assistant Member Oct 29, 2017 15,380 The one disappointing thing about this game is that it just ignores the genres of fiction it builds its narrative around and instead doubles down on video game references, which is not bad because they do it through gameplay and It is a nice love letter to video games throughout, but the whole story being about writers and not exploring any of it just raises your hopes for something that isn't there. It is almost like a gamer's idea of what fantasy books and sci fi books are about, but all the fantasy and sci fi they consumed was from video games and not from novels.  Faiyaz Member Nov 30, 2017 6,675 Bangladesh Artificially intelligent weekend thread   Lampa Member Feb 13, 2018 4,009 Interesting OP. Anyway I just think it's far too long.  burgervan Member Oct 27, 2017 1,456 You could write for Hazelight.  
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  • Rick and Morty team didn’t worry about the lore ‘we owe’ in season 8 — only Rick’s baggage

    Rick and Morty remains a staggering work of chaotic creativity. Previewing a handful of episodes from season 8, which premieres Sunday, May 25 with a Matrix-themed story inspired by phone charger theft, I still had that brain-melty “How do they think of this stuff?” feeling from when the show premiered more than a decade ago. The characters aren’t all the same as they were back in 2013: Morty has an edge from being around the galactic block a few hundred times, and Rick, while still a maniac, seems to carry the weight of cloning his daughter Beth that one time. 

    But the sheer amount of wackadoo sci-fi comedy that creator Dan Harmon, showrunner Scott Marder, and their team of writers pack into each half-hour hasn’t lost the awe. This season, that includes everything from a body-horror spin on the Easter Bunny to a “spiritual sequel”to season 3’s beloved Citadel episode “The Ricklantis Mixup.”

    So where does writing yet another season of Rick and Morty begin? And what does a new season need to accomplish at this point? Polygon talked to Harmon and Marder, who wrote seasons 8, 9, and 10 all in one go, about the tall-order task of reapproaching the Adult Swim series with so much madcap history behind them.

    Polygon: Where do you even start writing a new episode, when your show can zip in any fantastical direction, or go completely ham on its own mythology?

    Scott Marder: You might be surprised that we never start off a season with “What’s the canon we owe?” That’s the heavy lifting, and not necessarily how we want to start a season off. There are always people on staff that are hyper-aware of where we are in that central arc that’s going across the whole series, but it’s like any writers room — people are coming in with ideas they’re excited about. You can just see it on their faces. You can feel their energy and just spit it out, and people just start firing off things they’re excited about. We don’t try to have any rules or any setup. Sometimes there are seasons where we owe something from the previous season. In season 8, we didn’t, and that was luxurious.

    Dan Harmon: I always reference the Dexter season where they tried to save the revelation that a Fight Club was happening for the end, and after the first episode, all of Reddit had decoded it. I marked that moment as sort of “We are now in post-payoff TV.” As TV writers, we have to use what the audience doesn’t have, which is a TV writers room. That isn’t 10 people sitting around planning a funhouse, because they’re not going to plan as good a funhouse as a million people can plan for free by crowdsourcing. 

    But we can mix chocolate with giant machines that people can’t afford and don’t have in their kitchen. We can use resources and things to make something that’s delicious to watch. So that becomes the obligation when we sit down for seasons. We never go, “What’s going to be the big payoff? What’s going to be the big old twist? What are we going to reveal?” I think that that’s a non-starter for the modern audience. You just have to hope that the thing that ends up making headlines is a “How is it still good?” kind of thing — that’s the only narrative you can blow people’s minds with.

    Even if “lore” isn’t the genesis of a new season, Rick & Morty still exists in an interesting middle ground between episodic and serialized storytelling. Do you need the show to have one or the other when you want a season to have impact?

    Harmon: It’s less episodic than Hercules or Xena. It’s not Small Wonder or something where canon would defeat their own purpose. But it is way more episodic than Yellowjackets — I walked in on Codywatching season 2 of, and literally there wasn’t a single line of dialogue that made sense to me, and that was how she liked it. They were all talking about whatever happened in season 1. 

    Referencing The Pitt, I think is the new perfect example of how you can’t shake your cane at serialization. In a post-streaming marketplace, The Pitt represents a new opportunity for old showrunners, new viewers to do things you couldn’t do before, that you can now do with serialization, and issuing the time-slot-driven narrative model. Our show needs to be Doctor Who or Deep Space Nine. It comes from a tradition of, you need to be able to eat one piece of chocolate out of the box, but the characters need to, more so than a Saved by the Bell character, grow and change and have things about them that get revealed over time that don’t then get retconned.

    Marder: Ideally, the show’s evergreen, generally episodic. But we’re keeping an eye on serialized stuff, moments across each season that keep everyone engaged. I know people care about all that stuff. I think all of that combined makes for a perfect Rick and Morty season.

    How reactive is writing a new season of Rick and Morty? Does season 8 feel very 2025 to you, or is the goal timelessness?

    Harmon: The show has seen such a turbulent decade, and one of the cultural things that has happened is, TV is now always being watched by the entire planet. So people often ask “Is there anything that you’re afraid to do or can’t do?” The answer to that is “No.” But then at the same time, I don’t think the show has an edge that it needs to push, or would profit from pushing. It’s almost the opposite, in that the difficult thing is figuring out how to keep Rick from being Flanderized as a character that was a nihilist 10 years ago, where across an epoch of culture and TV, Rick was simply the guy saying, “By the way, God doesn’t exist” and having a cash register “Cha-ching!” from him saying that. 

    How do you keep House from not becoming pathetic on the 10th season of House if House has made people go, “I trust House because he’s such a crab-ass and he doesn’t care about your feelings when he diagnoses you!” I mean, you need to very delicately cultivate a House. So if you do care about the character, and value its outside perspective, it needs to be delicately changed to balance a changing ecosystem. 

    What a weird rambling answer to that question. But yeah, with Rick, it’s now like, “What if you’re kind of post-achievement? What if your nihilism isn’t going to pay the rent, as far as emotional relationships?” It’s not going to blow anyone’s mind, least of all his own. Where does that leave him? A new set of challenges. He’s still cynical, he’s still a nihilist. He’s still self-loathing, and filled with self-damage. Those things are wired into him. And yet he’s also acknowledged that other people are arbitrarily important to him. And so I guess we start there — that’s the only thing we can do to challenge ourselves. 

    Marder: I would say, just yes-anding Harmon, that’s sort of the light arc that runs through the season. Just kind of Rick living in a “retirement state.” What does he do now that this vendetta is over? He’s dealing with the family now, dealing with the Beths. That’s some of the stuff that we touch on lightly through it. 

    Which characters were you excited to see grow this season?

    Marder: I don’t think anyone had an agenda. It just kind of happened that we ended up finding a really neat Beth arc once Beth got split in two. It made her a way more intriguing character. One part of you literally gets to live the road less traveled, and this season really explores whether either of them are leading a happier life. Rick has to deal with being at the root of all that. 

    When we stumble onto something like a Jerry episode, like the Easter, that’s a treat, or Summer and the phone charger. She’s such an awesome character. It’s cool to see how she and Morty are evolving and becoming better at being the sidekick and handling themselves. It was cool watching her become a powerful CEO, then step back into her old life. We are very lucky that we’ve got a strong cast. 

    Are there any concepts in season 8 you’ve tried to get in the show for years and only now found a way?

    Harmon: My frustrating answer to that question is that the answer to that question is one that happens in season 9!I’ve actually been wanting to do in television or in movies forever, and we figured out how to do it. 

    There are definitely things in every episode, but it’s hard to tell which ones. We have a shoebox of “Oh, this idea can’t be done now,” but it’s like a cow’s digestive system. Ideas for seasons just keep getting passed down.

    Marder: There are a few that are magnetic that we can’t crack, and that we kind of leave on the board, hoping that maybe a new guy will come in and see it comedically. I feel like every season, a new person will come in and see that we have “time loop” up on the board, and they’ll crack their knuckles and be like, “I’m going to break the time loop.” And then we all spend three days trying to break “time loop.” Then it goes back on the board, and we’re reminded why we don’t do time loops. 

    Harmon: That is so funny. That is the reality, and it’s funny how mythical it is. It’s like an island on a pre-Columbian map in a ship’s galley, and some new deckhand comes in going, “What’s the Galapagos?” And we’re like, “Yarr, you little piece of shit, sit down and I’ll tell you a tale!” And they’ll either be successfully warned off, or they’ll go, “I’m going to take it.”

    Marder: It’s always like, “I can’t remember why that one made it back on the board… I can’t remember why we couldn’t crack it…” And then three days later, you’re like, “I remember why we couldn’t crack it.” Now an eager young writer is seasoned and grizzled. “It was a mistake to go to the time loop.”
    #rick #morty #team #didnt #worry
    Rick and Morty team didn’t worry about the lore ‘we owe’ in season 8 — only Rick’s baggage
    Rick and Morty remains a staggering work of chaotic creativity. Previewing a handful of episodes from season 8, which premieres Sunday, May 25 with a Matrix-themed story inspired by phone charger theft, I still had that brain-melty “How do they think of this stuff?” feeling from when the show premiered more than a decade ago. The characters aren’t all the same as they were back in 2013: Morty has an edge from being around the galactic block a few hundred times, and Rick, while still a maniac, seems to carry the weight of cloning his daughter Beth that one time.  But the sheer amount of wackadoo sci-fi comedy that creator Dan Harmon, showrunner Scott Marder, and their team of writers pack into each half-hour hasn’t lost the awe. This season, that includes everything from a body-horror spin on the Easter Bunny to a “spiritual sequel”to season 3’s beloved Citadel episode “The Ricklantis Mixup.” So where does writing yet another season of Rick and Morty begin? And what does a new season need to accomplish at this point? Polygon talked to Harmon and Marder, who wrote seasons 8, 9, and 10 all in one go, about the tall-order task of reapproaching the Adult Swim series with so much madcap history behind them. Polygon: Where do you even start writing a new episode, when your show can zip in any fantastical direction, or go completely ham on its own mythology? Scott Marder: You might be surprised that we never start off a season with “What’s the canon we owe?” That’s the heavy lifting, and not necessarily how we want to start a season off. There are always people on staff that are hyper-aware of where we are in that central arc that’s going across the whole series, but it’s like any writers room — people are coming in with ideas they’re excited about. You can just see it on their faces. You can feel their energy and just spit it out, and people just start firing off things they’re excited about. We don’t try to have any rules or any setup. Sometimes there are seasons where we owe something from the previous season. In season 8, we didn’t, and that was luxurious. Dan Harmon: I always reference the Dexter season where they tried to save the revelation that a Fight Club was happening for the end, and after the first episode, all of Reddit had decoded it. I marked that moment as sort of “We are now in post-payoff TV.” As TV writers, we have to use what the audience doesn’t have, which is a TV writers room. That isn’t 10 people sitting around planning a funhouse, because they’re not going to plan as good a funhouse as a million people can plan for free by crowdsourcing.  But we can mix chocolate with giant machines that people can’t afford and don’t have in their kitchen. We can use resources and things to make something that’s delicious to watch. So that becomes the obligation when we sit down for seasons. We never go, “What’s going to be the big payoff? What’s going to be the big old twist? What are we going to reveal?” I think that that’s a non-starter for the modern audience. You just have to hope that the thing that ends up making headlines is a “How is it still good?” kind of thing — that’s the only narrative you can blow people’s minds with. Even if “lore” isn’t the genesis of a new season, Rick & Morty still exists in an interesting middle ground between episodic and serialized storytelling. Do you need the show to have one or the other when you want a season to have impact? Harmon: It’s less episodic than Hercules or Xena. It’s not Small Wonder or something where canon would defeat their own purpose. But it is way more episodic than Yellowjackets — I walked in on Codywatching season 2 of, and literally there wasn’t a single line of dialogue that made sense to me, and that was how she liked it. They were all talking about whatever happened in season 1.  Referencing The Pitt, I think is the new perfect example of how you can’t shake your cane at serialization. In a post-streaming marketplace, The Pitt represents a new opportunity for old showrunners, new viewers to do things you couldn’t do before, that you can now do with serialization, and issuing the time-slot-driven narrative model. Our show needs to be Doctor Who or Deep Space Nine. It comes from a tradition of, you need to be able to eat one piece of chocolate out of the box, but the characters need to, more so than a Saved by the Bell character, grow and change and have things about them that get revealed over time that don’t then get retconned. Marder: Ideally, the show’s evergreen, generally episodic. But we’re keeping an eye on serialized stuff, moments across each season that keep everyone engaged. I know people care about all that stuff. I think all of that combined makes for a perfect Rick and Morty season. How reactive is writing a new season of Rick and Morty? Does season 8 feel very 2025 to you, or is the goal timelessness? Harmon: The show has seen such a turbulent decade, and one of the cultural things that has happened is, TV is now always being watched by the entire planet. So people often ask “Is there anything that you’re afraid to do or can’t do?” The answer to that is “No.” But then at the same time, I don’t think the show has an edge that it needs to push, or would profit from pushing. It’s almost the opposite, in that the difficult thing is figuring out how to keep Rick from being Flanderized as a character that was a nihilist 10 years ago, where across an epoch of culture and TV, Rick was simply the guy saying, “By the way, God doesn’t exist” and having a cash register “Cha-ching!” from him saying that.  How do you keep House from not becoming pathetic on the 10th season of House if House has made people go, “I trust House because he’s such a crab-ass and he doesn’t care about your feelings when he diagnoses you!” I mean, you need to very delicately cultivate a House. So if you do care about the character, and value its outside perspective, it needs to be delicately changed to balance a changing ecosystem.  What a weird rambling answer to that question. But yeah, with Rick, it’s now like, “What if you’re kind of post-achievement? What if your nihilism isn’t going to pay the rent, as far as emotional relationships?” It’s not going to blow anyone’s mind, least of all his own. Where does that leave him? A new set of challenges. He’s still cynical, he’s still a nihilist. He’s still self-loathing, and filled with self-damage. Those things are wired into him. And yet he’s also acknowledged that other people are arbitrarily important to him. And so I guess we start there — that’s the only thing we can do to challenge ourselves.  Marder: I would say, just yes-anding Harmon, that’s sort of the light arc that runs through the season. Just kind of Rick living in a “retirement state.” What does he do now that this vendetta is over? He’s dealing with the family now, dealing with the Beths. That’s some of the stuff that we touch on lightly through it.  Which characters were you excited to see grow this season? Marder: I don’t think anyone had an agenda. It just kind of happened that we ended up finding a really neat Beth arc once Beth got split in two. It made her a way more intriguing character. One part of you literally gets to live the road less traveled, and this season really explores whether either of them are leading a happier life. Rick has to deal with being at the root of all that.  When we stumble onto something like a Jerry episode, like the Easter, that’s a treat, or Summer and the phone charger. She’s such an awesome character. It’s cool to see how she and Morty are evolving and becoming better at being the sidekick and handling themselves. It was cool watching her become a powerful CEO, then step back into her old life. We are very lucky that we’ve got a strong cast.  Are there any concepts in season 8 you’ve tried to get in the show for years and only now found a way? Harmon: My frustrating answer to that question is that the answer to that question is one that happens in season 9!I’ve actually been wanting to do in television or in movies forever, and we figured out how to do it.  There are definitely things in every episode, but it’s hard to tell which ones. We have a shoebox of “Oh, this idea can’t be done now,” but it’s like a cow’s digestive system. Ideas for seasons just keep getting passed down. Marder: There are a few that are magnetic that we can’t crack, and that we kind of leave on the board, hoping that maybe a new guy will come in and see it comedically. I feel like every season, a new person will come in and see that we have “time loop” up on the board, and they’ll crack their knuckles and be like, “I’m going to break the time loop.” And then we all spend three days trying to break “time loop.” Then it goes back on the board, and we’re reminded why we don’t do time loops.  Harmon: That is so funny. That is the reality, and it’s funny how mythical it is. It’s like an island on a pre-Columbian map in a ship’s galley, and some new deckhand comes in going, “What’s the Galapagos?” And we’re like, “Yarr, you little piece of shit, sit down and I’ll tell you a tale!” And they’ll either be successfully warned off, or they’ll go, “I’m going to take it.” Marder: It’s always like, “I can’t remember why that one made it back on the board… I can’t remember why we couldn’t crack it…” And then three days later, you’re like, “I remember why we couldn’t crack it.” Now an eager young writer is seasoned and grizzled. “It was a mistake to go to the time loop.” #rick #morty #team #didnt #worry
    WWW.POLYGON.COM
    Rick and Morty team didn’t worry about the lore ‘we owe’ in season 8 — only Rick’s baggage
    Rick and Morty remains a staggering work of chaotic creativity. Previewing a handful of episodes from season 8, which premieres Sunday, May 25 with a Matrix-themed story inspired by phone charger theft, I still had that brain-melty “How do they think of this stuff?” feeling from when the show premiered more than a decade ago. The characters aren’t all the same as they were back in 2013 (voice actors aside): Morty has an edge from being around the galactic block a few hundred times, and Rick, while still a maniac, seems to carry the weight of cloning his daughter Beth that one time.  But the sheer amount of wackadoo sci-fi comedy that creator Dan Harmon, showrunner Scott Marder, and their team of writers pack into each half-hour hasn’t lost the awe. This season, that includes everything from a body-horror spin on the Easter Bunny to a “spiritual sequel” (Harmon’s words) to season 3’s beloved Citadel episode “The Ricklantis Mixup.” So where does writing yet another season of Rick and Morty begin? And what does a new season need to accomplish at this point? Polygon talked to Harmon and Marder, who wrote seasons 8, 9, and 10 all in one go, about the tall-order task of reapproaching the Adult Swim series with so much madcap history behind them. Polygon: Where do you even start writing a new episode, when your show can zip in any fantastical direction, or go completely ham on its own mythology? Scott Marder: You might be surprised that we never start off a season with “What’s the canon we owe?” That’s the heavy lifting, and not necessarily how we want to start a season off. There are always people on staff that are hyper-aware of where we are in that central arc that’s going across the whole series, but it’s like any writers room — people are coming in with ideas they’re excited about. You can just see it on their faces. You can feel their energy and just spit it out, and people just start firing off things they’re excited about. We don’t try to have any rules or any setup. Sometimes there are seasons where we owe something from the previous season. In season 8, we didn’t, and that was luxurious. Dan Harmon: I always reference the Dexter season where they tried to save the revelation that a Fight Club was happening for the end, and after the first episode, all of Reddit had decoded it. I marked that moment as sort of “We are now in post-payoff TV.” As TV writers, we have to use what the audience doesn’t have, which is a TV writers room. That isn’t 10 people sitting around planning a funhouse, because they’re not going to plan as good a funhouse as a million people can plan for free by crowdsourcing.  But we can mix chocolate with giant machines that people can’t afford and don’t have in their kitchen. We can use resources and things to make something that’s delicious to watch. So that becomes the obligation when we sit down for seasons. We never go, “What’s going to be the big payoff? What’s going to be the big old twist? What are we going to reveal?” I think that that’s a non-starter for the modern audience. You just have to hope that the thing that ends up making headlines is a “How is it still good?” kind of thing — that’s the only narrative you can blow people’s minds with. Even if “lore” isn’t the genesis of a new season, Rick & Morty still exists in an interesting middle ground between episodic and serialized storytelling. Do you need the show to have one or the other when you want a season to have impact? Harmon: It’s less episodic than Hercules or Xena. It’s not Small Wonder or something where canon would defeat their own purpose. But it is way more episodic than Yellowjackets — I walked in on Cody [Heller, Harmon’s partner] watching season 2 of [Yellowjackets], and literally there wasn’t a single line of dialogue that made sense to me, and that was how she liked it. They were all talking about whatever happened in season 1.  Referencing The Pitt, I think is the new perfect example of how you can’t shake your cane at serialization. In a post-streaming marketplace, The Pitt represents a new opportunity for old showrunners, new viewers to do things you couldn’t do before, that you can now do with serialization, and issuing the time-slot-driven narrative model. Our show needs to be Doctor Who or Deep Space Nine. It comes from a tradition of, you need to be able to eat one piece of chocolate out of the box, but the characters need to, more so than a Saved by the Bell character, grow and change and have things about them that get revealed over time that don’t then get retconned. Marder: Ideally, the show’s evergreen, generally episodic. But we’re keeping an eye on serialized stuff, moments across each season that keep everyone engaged. I know people care about all that stuff. I think all of that combined makes for a perfect Rick and Morty season. How reactive is writing a new season of Rick and Morty? Does season 8 feel very 2025 to you, or is the goal timelessness? Harmon: The show has seen such a turbulent decade, and one of the cultural things that has happened is, TV is now always being watched by the entire planet. So people often ask “Is there anything that you’re afraid to do or can’t do?” The answer to that is “No.” But then at the same time, I don’t think the show has an edge that it needs to push, or would profit from pushing. It’s almost the opposite, in that the difficult thing is figuring out how to keep Rick from being Flanderized as a character that was a nihilist 10 years ago, where across an epoch of culture and TV, Rick was simply the guy saying, “By the way, God doesn’t exist” and having a cash register “Cha-ching!” from him saying that.  How do you keep House from not becoming pathetic on the 10th season of House if House has made people go, “I trust House because he’s such a crab-ass and he doesn’t care about your feelings when he diagnoses you!” I mean, you need to very delicately cultivate a House. So if you do care about the character, and value its outside perspective, it needs to be delicately changed to balance a changing ecosystem.  What a weird rambling answer to that question. But yeah, with Rick, it’s now like, “What if you’re kind of post-achievement? What if your nihilism isn’t going to pay the rent, as far as emotional relationships?” It’s not going to blow anyone’s mind, least of all his own. Where does that leave him? A new set of challenges. He’s still cynical, he’s still a nihilist. He’s still self-loathing, and filled with self-damage. Those things are wired into him. And yet he’s also acknowledged that other people are arbitrarily important to him. And so I guess we start there — that’s the only thing we can do to challenge ourselves.  Marder: I would say, just yes-anding Harmon, that’s sort of the light arc that runs through the season. Just kind of Rick living in a “retirement state.” What does he do now that this vendetta is over? He’s dealing with the family now, dealing with the Beths. That’s some of the stuff that we touch on lightly through it.  Which characters were you excited to see grow this season? Marder: I don’t think anyone had an agenda. It just kind of happened that we ended up finding a really neat Beth arc once Beth got split in two. It made her a way more intriguing character. One part of you literally gets to live the road less traveled, and this season really explores whether either of them are leading a happier life. Rick has to deal with being at the root of all that.  When we stumble onto something like a Jerry episode, like the Easter [one], that’s a treat, or Summer and the phone charger. She’s such an awesome character. It’s cool to see how she and Morty are evolving and becoming better at being the sidekick and handling themselves. It was cool watching her become a powerful CEO, then step back into her old life. We are very lucky that we’ve got a strong cast.  Are there any concepts in season 8 you’ve tried to get in the show for years and only now found a way? Harmon: My frustrating answer to that question is that the answer to that question is one that happens in season 9! [A thing] I’ve actually been wanting to do in television or in movies forever, and we figured out how to do it.  There are definitely things in every episode, but it’s hard to tell which ones. We have a shoebox of “Oh, this idea can’t be done now,” but it’s like a cow’s digestive system. Ideas for seasons just keep getting passed down. Marder: There are a few that are magnetic that we can’t crack, and that we kind of leave on the board, hoping that maybe a new guy will come in and see it comedically. I feel like every season, a new person will come in and see that we have “time loop” up on the board, and they’ll crack their knuckles and be like, “I’m going to break the time loop.” And then we all spend three days trying to break “time loop.” Then it goes back on the board, and we’re reminded why we don’t do time loops.  Harmon: That is so funny. That is the reality, and it’s funny how mythical it is. It’s like an island on a pre-Columbian map in a ship’s galley, and some new deckhand comes in going, “What’s the Galapagos?” And we’re like, “Yarr, you little piece of shit, sit down and I’ll tell you a tale!” And they’ll either be successfully warned off, or they’ll go, “I’m going to take it.” Marder: It’s always like, “I can’t remember why that one made it back on the board… I can’t remember why we couldn’t crack it…” And then three days later, you’re like, “I remember why we couldn’t crack it.” Now an eager young writer is seasoned and grizzled. “It was a mistake to go to the time loop.”
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  • Be honest: Does anyone really like Motion Blur, Bloom and/or Film grain?

    Slayven
    Never read a comic in his life
    Moderator

    Oct 25, 2017

    102,377

    First things i turn off, even before i start playing. They are distracting at best, and a waste of GPU/CPU cycles at worst.
     

    Kyrios
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    19,085

    Film grain is one of the first things I look for in the Options to turn off, if available lol
     

    Bonefish
    Member

    Oct 28, 2017

    5,099

    all dogshit. also that dumb lens effect they did in star wars outlaws and MHworld. At least Outlaws patched a way to turn that off.
     

    ann3nova.
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    2,546

    I'm cool with motion blur.
     

    Shoichi
    Member

    Jan 10, 2018

    12,489

    I turn all those off the moment I have access to visual options in any game I play
     

    RoKKeR
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    17,115

    Motion blur when done right = 100% yes. The others= no.
     

    Grenlento
    Member

    Dec 6, 2023

    1,822

    They aren't that taxing on resources nowadays right?

    But yeah, I also turn all that stuff off if I can.

    I'm also a monster & turn off AA if I can lol 

    Lylo
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    3,582

    No, no and no.

    Edit: also, the biggest of "no's" for chromatic aberration. 

    Vincent Grayson
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    7,382

    Mount Airy, MD

    Motion blur seems like the odd one out here, IMO. Film grain just adds absolutely nothing. Bloom might be good in theory but it sure seems like we've improved on what "bloom" was doing at this point. But motion blur makes total sense to me.
     

    MR2
    Member

    Apr 14, 2022

    1,367

    I'm not bothered enough to turn them off.
     

    xir
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    15,383

    Los Angeles, CA

    Yes

    No
    Yes 

    texhnolyze
    Shinra Employee
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    26,488

    Indonesia

    No to motion blur and film grain, I always turn them off.

    Bloom, in the other hand, depends on the implementation and its intensity. Modern bloom is much better than what we saw in PS360 era. 

    OP

    OP

    Slayven
    Never read a comic in his life
    Moderator

    Oct 25, 2017

    102,377

    RoKKeR said:

    Motion blur when done right = 100% yes. The others= no.

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    i knew i was missing one
     

    Duxxy3
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    24,801

    USA

    I generally turn off motion blur as a start. Film grain and bloom I typically leave alone, unless it really looks wrong
     

    Hasney
    One Winged Slayer
    The Fallen

    Oct 25, 2017

    23,266

    Immediately turning them all off when I can, as well as Chromatic Abberation
     

    Wrexis
    Member

    Nov 4, 2017

    29,482

    The last time I left film grain on in a game was Mass Effect 2007.
     

    Outtrigger888
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    2,664

    I shut off chromatic aberration and film grain. I'm cool with motion blur though.
     

    platypotamus
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    10,052

    I just have my PC autodetect if I'm on there, and if I'm on a console I dont even look at visual settings unless I need some colorblind fix and didnt find it elsewhere. Tbh I dunno what bloom even is.
     

    RedSwirl
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    10,729

    I don't even mind chromatic aberration unless it's really egregious. And I actually prefer leaving motion blur on, especially if it's per-object motion blur.
     

    Sadnarav
    Member

    Nov 6, 2019

    994

    I usually turn them off when I have the option, specially after I bought Final Fantasy Type-0 HD on launch and it had such intense motion blur that moving the camera gave me headaches, so I've never played it past the very start
     

    Rizific
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    6,322

    All turned off before starting the game. Really not a fan of purposely shitting up my image quality.
     

    Reinhard
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    7,200

    Never with chromatic aberration and film grain. Motion blur is good when per object motion blur, but I don't like motion blur in general.
     

    Roubjon
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    3,089

    I like all of it, yeah.
     

    LossAversion
    The Merchant of ERA
    Member

    Oct 28, 2017

    11,696

    Motion blur can really help at 30fps if it's implemented well but even at 40fps it becomes way less appealing. At 60fps or higher it hurts more than it helps.

    Film grain... I don't know, I usually just turn it off because it's either not noticeable at all or too noticeable.

    I have a soft spot for bloom. It can be really effective at adding a bit of whimsy like with the original Oblivion.

    Chromatic aberration is usually not my cup of tea but there are some games where it worked for me. Sue me, I liked it in Bloodborne.

    I cannot fucking stand vignettes and it actually killed my desire to play The Witcher 3 because the PS4 version got patched at some point to make the vignetting super dark and distracting with no way to turn it off. 

    MinerArcaniner
    Uncle Works at Nintendo
    Member

    Oct 29, 2017

    7,451

    Motion blur is case-by-case.

    Bloom and film grain can fuck off into the sun. 

    blazinglazers
    Prophet of Truth
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    304

    Los Angeles

    As a console player, yeah I fucking love it.

    Well done motion blur helps the "feel" of 30fps dramatically. Subtle film grain and lens effects can add up to an immersive "cinematic" aesthetic.

    Of course, all of these things can be abused... but that goes for everything. 

    Rippa
    Member

    Feb 15, 2018

    1,343

    I'm all for artist vision.

    If it's on then I don't mind it.

    If it's off, I won't turn it on. 

    Uhyve
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    1,290

    I stream alot of games from my gaming PC to my bedroom media-ish PC, so I usually disable film grain because I assume it'd hurt compression. Not sure if that's a real thing though, wonder if they do the same by default on streaming services.

    Otherwise, assuming they aren't horrible implementations, I don't mind any of those effects. 

    nolifebr
    Member

    Sep 1, 2018

    12,633

    Curitiba/BR

    No problem with any of those.
     

    SoftTaur
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    688

    A very small amount of motion blur can be fine. Everything else is distracting at best.
     

    selfnoise
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    1,555

    I don't think I have ever actually seen film grain in a game, I can't tell the difference on or off. Motion blur CAN be good, but it seems like it's always implemented in a stupid way.

    Bloom feels like kind of a last-gen thing? I guess Veilguard had it. It's fine. 

    UraMallas
    Member

    Nov 1, 2017

    24,478

    United States

    Roubjon said:

    I like all of it, yeah.

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    At the very least I don't mind it.
     

    hydruxo
    ▲ Legend ▲
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    22,739

    Motion blur is alright sometimes, but I turn off bloom and film grain immediately
     

    RPGsandFGCs
    Member

    Jun 30, 2024

    1,095

    California

    I sometimes leave bloom on, but motion blur is off 100% of the time and film grain is off 95% of the time.

    I don't fuck with motion blur. 

    Bear
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    12,314

    They're all going off instantly.
     

    Spaggy
    Member

    Oct 26, 2017

    778

    I kinda like film grain, but I'll turn it down to 50% or so if possible. It depends on the game and the look they're going for, but usually I'll turn down those visual settings rather than completely off. Same with camera bob/sway - I'll turn that down to 20% if I can.
     

    secretanchitman
    One Winged Slayer
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    9,901

    Chicago, IL

    Hate all of those annoying post-processing effects and I turnthem off instantly.

    Give me a clean and native image every time! 

    J75
    Member

    Sep 29, 2018

    7,880

    Digital Foundry does lol
     

    Lant_War
    Classic Anus Game
    The Fallen

    Jul 14, 2018

    25,288

    I like motion blur if well implemented. If you're playing at 60fps or under it helps a fair bit to smooth out the image.

    CA and film grain depends on the implementation and what the game is going for. Generally I leave them on though unless it's absurdly intrusive 

    Boopers
    Member

    Nov 1, 2020

    4,354

    Vermont usa

    I think it's neat!
     

    AppleMIX
    Prophet of Truth
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    1,851

    Nope, auto turn off. Same with chromatic aberration.
     

    contextura
    Member

    May 27, 2023

    15

    Depends on the look the game is going for I guess. Like something like the last of us 2 just looks kind of plain without that added post-processing to give it that filmic look it's going for. But if I'm playing something more inherently gamey then I'll turn them off if they're too obtrusive.
     

    RaySpencer
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    5,795

    I love them all of they are used well for artistic style.

    What I hate is all the dithering I see from upscaling in all these games. 

    TeenageFBI
    One Winged Slayer
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    11,332

    RoKKeR said:

    Motion blur when done right = 100% yes. The others= no.

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Chromatic aberration can absolutely be done right, but very few devs show that kind of restraint.

    It's a good effect to use when taking damage in certain games. Or it could show up when simulating a shitty security camera readout. Or maybe it could only appear as you approach a dangerous/lethal area.

    I always liked the effect in Teleglitch:

    View:  

    pioneer
    Member

    May 31, 2022

    7,297

    I love film grain when it's done well. Blue and bloom I don't feel strongly about, but generally some is nice but often I find them overdone.
     

    IceBear
    Member

    Nov 20, 2017

    1,297

    I tend to keep bloom and film grain on as I assumed those are part of the artists' intended vision on how a game should look like. As for motion blur, it depends. It stays on for console 30fps and off if I can hit 60fps on PC.
     

    Eidan
    AVALANCHE
    Avenger

    Oct 30, 2017

    9,860

    I have no problem with any of them.
     

    inkblot
    Member

    Mar 27, 2024

    1,091

    Motion Blur

    Film Grain 

    srtrestre
    One Winged Slayer
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    19,503

    I turn all these off. Also throw in chromatic aberration somewhere in there
     

    Dest
    Has seen more 10s than EA ever will
    Coward

    Jun 4, 2018

    16,048

    Work

    motion blur is the first thing i turn off in a game, if i can. the other stuff.... depends on the implementation. can be good.
     
    #honest #does #anyone #really #like
    Be honest: Does anyone really like Motion Blur, Bloom and/or Film grain?
    Slayven Never read a comic in his life Moderator Oct 25, 2017 102,377 First things i turn off, even before i start playing. They are distracting at best, and a waste of GPU/CPU cycles at worst.   Kyrios Member Oct 27, 2017 19,085 Film grain is one of the first things I look for in the Options to turn off, if available lol   Bonefish Member Oct 28, 2017 5,099 all dogshit. also that dumb lens effect they did in star wars outlaws and MHworld. At least Outlaws patched a way to turn that off.   ann3nova. Member Oct 27, 2017 2,546 I'm cool with motion blur.   Shoichi Member Jan 10, 2018 12,489 I turn all those off the moment I have access to visual options in any game I play   RoKKeR Member Oct 25, 2017 17,115 Motion blur when done right = 100% yes. The others= no.   Grenlento Member Dec 6, 2023 1,822 They aren't that taxing on resources nowadays right? But yeah, I also turn all that stuff off if I can. I'm also a monster & turn off AA if I can lol  Lylo Member Oct 25, 2017 3,582 No, no and no. Edit: also, the biggest of "no's" for chromatic aberration.  Vincent Grayson Member Oct 27, 2017 7,382 Mount Airy, MD Motion blur seems like the odd one out here, IMO. Film grain just adds absolutely nothing. Bloom might be good in theory but it sure seems like we've improved on what "bloom" was doing at this point. But motion blur makes total sense to me.   MR2 Member Apr 14, 2022 1,367 I'm not bothered enough to turn them off.   xir Member Oct 27, 2017 15,383 Los Angeles, CA Yes No Yes  texhnolyze Shinra Employee Member Oct 25, 2017 26,488 Indonesia No to motion blur and film grain, I always turn them off. Bloom, in the other hand, depends on the implementation and its intensity. Modern bloom is much better than what we saw in PS360 era.  OP OP Slayven Never read a comic in his life Moderator Oct 25, 2017 102,377 RoKKeR said: Motion blur when done right = 100% yes. The others= no. Click to expand... Click to shrink... i knew i was missing one   Duxxy3 Member Oct 27, 2017 24,801 USA I generally turn off motion blur as a start. Film grain and bloom I typically leave alone, unless it really looks wrong   Hasney One Winged Slayer The Fallen Oct 25, 2017 23,266 Immediately turning them all off when I can, as well as Chromatic Abberation   Wrexis Member Nov 4, 2017 29,482 The last time I left film grain on in a game was Mass Effect 2007.   Outtrigger888 Member Oct 27, 2017 2,664 I shut off chromatic aberration and film grain. I'm cool with motion blur though.   platypotamus Member Oct 25, 2017 10,052 I just have my PC autodetect if I'm on there, and if I'm on a console I dont even look at visual settings unless I need some colorblind fix and didnt find it elsewhere. Tbh I dunno what bloom even is.   RedSwirl Member Oct 25, 2017 10,729 I don't even mind chromatic aberration unless it's really egregious. And I actually prefer leaving motion blur on, especially if it's per-object motion blur.   Sadnarav Member Nov 6, 2019 994 I usually turn them off when I have the option, specially after I bought Final Fantasy Type-0 HD on launch and it had such intense motion blur that moving the camera gave me headaches, so I've never played it past the very start   Rizific Member Oct 27, 2017 6,322 All turned off before starting the game. Really not a fan of purposely shitting up my image quality.   Reinhard Member Oct 27, 2017 7,200 Never with chromatic aberration and film grain. Motion blur is good when per object motion blur, but I don't like motion blur in general.   Roubjon Member Oct 25, 2017 3,089 I like all of it, yeah.   LossAversion The Merchant of ERA Member Oct 28, 2017 11,696 Motion blur can really help at 30fps if it's implemented well but even at 40fps it becomes way less appealing. At 60fps or higher it hurts more than it helps. Film grain... I don't know, I usually just turn it off because it's either not noticeable at all or too noticeable. I have a soft spot for bloom. It can be really effective at adding a bit of whimsy like with the original Oblivion. Chromatic aberration is usually not my cup of tea but there are some games where it worked for me. Sue me, I liked it in Bloodborne. I cannot fucking stand vignettes and it actually killed my desire to play The Witcher 3 because the PS4 version got patched at some point to make the vignetting super dark and distracting with no way to turn it off.  MinerArcaniner Uncle Works at Nintendo Member Oct 29, 2017 7,451 Motion blur is case-by-case. Bloom and film grain can fuck off into the sun.  blazinglazers Prophet of Truth Member Oct 27, 2017 304 Los Angeles As a console player, yeah I fucking love it. Well done motion blur helps the "feel" of 30fps dramatically. Subtle film grain and lens effects can add up to an immersive "cinematic" aesthetic. Of course, all of these things can be abused... but that goes for everything.  Rippa Member Feb 15, 2018 1,343 I'm all for artist vision. If it's on then I don't mind it. If it's off, I won't turn it on.  Uhyve Member Oct 25, 2017 1,290 I stream alot of games from my gaming PC to my bedroom media-ish PC, so I usually disable film grain because I assume it'd hurt compression. Not sure if that's a real thing though, wonder if they do the same by default on streaming services. Otherwise, assuming they aren't horrible implementations, I don't mind any of those effects.  nolifebr Member Sep 1, 2018 12,633 Curitiba/BR No problem with any of those.   SoftTaur Member Oct 25, 2017 688 A very small amount of motion blur can be fine. Everything else is distracting at best.   selfnoise Member Oct 25, 2017 1,555 I don't think I have ever actually seen film grain in a game, I can't tell the difference on or off. Motion blur CAN be good, but it seems like it's always implemented in a stupid way. Bloom feels like kind of a last-gen thing? I guess Veilguard had it. It's fine.  UraMallas Member Nov 1, 2017 24,478 United States Roubjon said: I like all of it, yeah. Click to expand... Click to shrink... At the very least I don't mind it.   hydruxo ▲ Legend ▲ Member Oct 25, 2017 22,739 Motion blur is alright sometimes, but I turn off bloom and film grain immediately   RPGsandFGCs Member Jun 30, 2024 1,095 California I sometimes leave bloom on, but motion blur is off 100% of the time and film grain is off 95% of the time. I don't fuck with motion blur.  Bear Member Oct 25, 2017 12,314 They're all going off instantly.   Spaggy Member Oct 26, 2017 778 I kinda like film grain, but I'll turn it down to 50% or so if possible. It depends on the game and the look they're going for, but usually I'll turn down those visual settings rather than completely off. Same with camera bob/sway - I'll turn that down to 20% if I can.   secretanchitman One Winged Slayer Member Oct 25, 2017 9,901 Chicago, IL Hate all of those annoying post-processing effects and I turnthem off instantly. Give me a clean and native image every time!  J75 Member Sep 29, 2018 7,880 Digital Foundry does lol   Lant_War Classic Anus Game The Fallen Jul 14, 2018 25,288 I like motion blur if well implemented. If you're playing at 60fps or under it helps a fair bit to smooth out the image. CA and film grain depends on the implementation and what the game is going for. Generally I leave them on though unless it's absurdly intrusive  Boopers Member Nov 1, 2020 4,354 Vermont usa I think it's neat!   AppleMIX Prophet of Truth Member Oct 27, 2017 1,851 Nope, auto turn off. Same with chromatic aberration.   contextura Member May 27, 2023 15 Depends on the look the game is going for I guess. Like something like the last of us 2 just looks kind of plain without that added post-processing to give it that filmic look it's going for. But if I'm playing something more inherently gamey then I'll turn them off if they're too obtrusive.   RaySpencer Member Oct 27, 2017 5,795 I love them all of they are used well for artistic style. What I hate is all the dithering I see from upscaling in all these games.  TeenageFBI One Winged Slayer Member Oct 25, 2017 11,332 RoKKeR said: Motion blur when done right = 100% yes. The others= no. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Chromatic aberration can absolutely be done right, but very few devs show that kind of restraint. It's a good effect to use when taking damage in certain games. Or it could show up when simulating a shitty security camera readout. Or maybe it could only appear as you approach a dangerous/lethal area. I always liked the effect in Teleglitch: View:   pioneer Member May 31, 2022 7,297 I love film grain when it's done well. Blue and bloom I don't feel strongly about, but generally some is nice but often I find them overdone.   IceBear Member Nov 20, 2017 1,297 I tend to keep bloom and film grain on as I assumed those are part of the artists' intended vision on how a game should look like. As for motion blur, it depends. It stays on for console 30fps and off if I can hit 60fps on PC.   Eidan AVALANCHE Avenger Oct 30, 2017 9,860 I have no problem with any of them.   inkblot Member Mar 27, 2024 1,091 ✅ Motion Blur ❌ Film Grain  srtrestre One Winged Slayer Member Oct 25, 2017 19,503 I turn all these off. Also throw in chromatic aberration somewhere in there   Dest Has seen more 10s than EA ever will Coward Jun 4, 2018 16,048 Work motion blur is the first thing i turn off in a game, if i can. the other stuff.... depends on the implementation. can be good.   #honest #does #anyone #really #like
    WWW.RESETERA.COM
    Be honest: Does anyone really like Motion Blur, Bloom and/or Film grain?
    Slayven Never read a comic in his life Moderator Oct 25, 2017 102,377 First things i turn off, even before i start playing. They are distracting at best, and a waste of GPU/CPU cycles at worst.   Kyrios Member Oct 27, 2017 19,085 Film grain is one of the first things I look for in the Options to turn off, if available lol   Bonefish Member Oct 28, 2017 5,099 all dogshit. also that dumb lens effect they did in star wars outlaws and MHworld (im sure buncha others had it). At least Outlaws patched a way to turn that off.   ann3nova. Member Oct 27, 2017 2,546 I'm cool with motion blur.   Shoichi Member Jan 10, 2018 12,489 I turn all those off the moment I have access to visual options in any game I play   RoKKeR Member Oct 25, 2017 17,115 Motion blur when done right = 100% yes. The others (+chromatic aberration) = no.   Grenlento Member Dec 6, 2023 1,822 They aren't that taxing on resources nowadays right? But yeah, I also turn all that stuff off if I can. I'm also a monster & turn off AA if I can lol  Lylo Member Oct 25, 2017 3,582 No, no and no. Edit: also, the biggest of "no's" for chromatic aberration.  Vincent Grayson Member Oct 27, 2017 7,382 Mount Airy, MD Motion blur seems like the odd one out here, IMO. Film grain just adds absolutely nothing. Bloom might be good in theory but it sure seems like we've improved on what "bloom" was doing at this point. But motion blur makes total sense to me.   MR2 Member Apr 14, 2022 1,367 I'm not bothered enough to turn them off.   xir Member Oct 27, 2017 15,383 Los Angeles, CA Yes No Yes  texhnolyze Shinra Employee Member Oct 25, 2017 26,488 Indonesia No to motion blur and film grain, I always turn them off. Bloom, in the other hand, depends on the implementation and its intensity. Modern bloom is much better than what we saw in PS360 era.  OP OP Slayven Never read a comic in his life Moderator Oct 25, 2017 102,377 RoKKeR said: Motion blur when done right = 100% yes. The others (+chromatic aberration) = no. Click to expand... Click to shrink... i knew i was missing one   Duxxy3 Member Oct 27, 2017 24,801 USA I generally turn off motion blur as a start. Film grain and bloom I typically leave alone, unless it really looks wrong   Hasney One Winged Slayer The Fallen Oct 25, 2017 23,266 Immediately turning them all off when I can, as well as Chromatic Abberation   Wrexis Member Nov 4, 2017 29,482 The last time I left film grain on in a game was Mass Effect 2007.   Outtrigger888 Member Oct 27, 2017 2,664 I shut off chromatic aberration and film grain. I'm cool with motion blur though.   platypotamus Member Oct 25, 2017 10,052 I just have my PC autodetect if I'm on there, and if I'm on a console I dont even look at visual settings unless I need some colorblind fix and didnt find it elsewhere. Tbh I dunno what bloom even is.   RedSwirl Member Oct 25, 2017 10,729 I don't even mind chromatic aberration unless it's really egregious. And I actually prefer leaving motion blur on, especially if it's per-object motion blur.   Sadnarav Member Nov 6, 2019 994 I usually turn them off when I have the option, specially after I bought Final Fantasy Type-0 HD on launch and it had such intense motion blur that moving the camera gave me headaches, so I've never played it past the very start   Rizific Member Oct 27, 2017 6,322 All turned off before starting the game. Really not a fan of purposely shitting up my image quality.   Reinhard Member Oct 27, 2017 7,200 Never with chromatic aberration and film grain. Motion blur is good when per object motion blur, but I don't like motion blur in general.   Roubjon Member Oct 25, 2017 3,089 I like all of it, yeah.   LossAversion The Merchant of ERA Member Oct 28, 2017 11,696 Motion blur can really help at 30fps if it's implemented well but even at 40fps it becomes way less appealing. At 60fps or higher it hurts more than it helps. Film grain... I don't know, I usually just turn it off because it's either not noticeable at all or too noticeable. I have a soft spot for bloom. It can be really effective at adding a bit of whimsy like with the original Oblivion. Chromatic aberration is usually not my cup of tea but there are some games where it worked for me. Sue me, I liked it in Bloodborne. I cannot fucking stand vignettes and it actually killed my desire to play The Witcher 3 because the PS4 version got patched at some point to make the vignetting super dark and distracting with no way to turn it off.  MinerArcaniner Uncle Works at Nintendo Member Oct 29, 2017 7,451 Motion blur is case-by-case. Bloom and film grain can fuck off into the sun.  blazinglazers Prophet of Truth Member Oct 27, 2017 304 Los Angeles As a console player, yeah I fucking love it. Well done motion blur helps the "feel" of 30fps dramatically. Subtle film grain and lens effects can add up to an immersive "cinematic" aesthetic. Of course, all of these things can be abused... but that goes for everything.  Rippa Member Feb 15, 2018 1,343 I'm all for artist vision. If it's on then I don't mind it. If it's off, I won't turn it on.  Uhyve Member Oct 25, 2017 1,290 I stream alot of games from my gaming PC to my bedroom media-ish PC, so I usually disable film grain because I assume it'd hurt compression. Not sure if that's a real thing though, wonder if they do the same by default on streaming services. Otherwise, assuming they aren't horrible implementations, I don't mind any of those effects.  nolifebr Member Sep 1, 2018 12,633 Curitiba/BR No problem with any of those.   SoftTaur Member Oct 25, 2017 688 A very small amount of motion blur can be fine. Everything else is distracting at best.   selfnoise Member Oct 25, 2017 1,555 I don't think I have ever actually seen film grain in a game, I can't tell the difference on or off. Motion blur CAN be good, but it seems like it's always implemented in a stupid way. Bloom feels like kind of a last-gen thing? I guess Veilguard had it. It's fine.  UraMallas Member Nov 1, 2017 24,478 United States Roubjon said: I like all of it, yeah. Click to expand... Click to shrink... At the very least I don't mind it.   hydruxo ▲ Legend ▲ Member Oct 25, 2017 22,739 Motion blur is alright sometimes, but I turn off bloom and film grain immediately   RPGsandFGCs Member Jun 30, 2024 1,095 California I sometimes leave bloom on, but motion blur is off 100% of the time and film grain is off 95% of the time. I don't fuck with motion blur.  Bear Member Oct 25, 2017 12,314 They're all going off instantly.   Spaggy Member Oct 26, 2017 778 I kinda like film grain, but I'll turn it down to 50% or so if possible. It depends on the game and the look they're going for, but usually I'll turn down those visual settings rather than completely off. Same with camera bob/sway - I'll turn that down to 20% if I can.   secretanchitman One Winged Slayer Member Oct 25, 2017 9,901 Chicago, IL Hate all of those annoying post-processing effects and I turn (or mod) them off instantly. Give me a clean and native image every time!  J75 Member Sep 29, 2018 7,880 Digital Foundry does lol   Lant_War Classic Anus Game The Fallen Jul 14, 2018 25,288 I like motion blur if well implemented. If you're playing at 60fps or under it helps a fair bit to smooth out the image. CA and film grain depends on the implementation and what the game is going for. Generally I leave them on though unless it's absurdly intrusive  Boopers Member Nov 1, 2020 4,354 Vermont usa I think it's neat!   AppleMIX Prophet of Truth Member Oct 27, 2017 1,851 Nope, auto turn off. Same with chromatic aberration.   contextura Member May 27, 2023 15 Depends on the look the game is going for I guess. Like something like the last of us 2 just looks kind of plain without that added post-processing to give it that filmic look it's going for. But if I'm playing something more inherently gamey then I'll turn them off if they're too obtrusive (also motion blur has to be turned off if I'm using frame gen which creates a kind of motion blur of its own).   RaySpencer Member Oct 27, 2017 5,795 I love them all of they are used well for artistic style. What I hate is all the dithering I see from upscaling in all these games.  TeenageFBI One Winged Slayer Member Oct 25, 2017 11,332 RoKKeR said: Motion blur when done right = 100% yes. The others (+chromatic aberration) = no. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Chromatic aberration can absolutely be done right, but very few devs show that kind of restraint. It's a good effect to use when taking damage in certain games. Or it could show up when simulating a shitty security camera readout. Or maybe it could only appear as you approach a dangerous/lethal area. I always liked the effect in Teleglitch: View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLycSlqVQIU  pioneer Member May 31, 2022 7,297 I love film grain when it's done well. Blue and bloom I don't feel strongly about, but generally some is nice but often I find them overdone.   IceBear Member Nov 20, 2017 1,297 I tend to keep bloom and film grain on as I assumed those are part of the artists' intended vision on how a game should look like. As for motion blur, it depends. It stays on for console 30fps and off if I can hit 60fps on PC.   Eidan AVALANCHE Avenger Oct 30, 2017 9,860 I have no problem with any of them.   inkblot Member Mar 27, 2024 1,091 ✅ Motion Blur ❌ Film Grain  srtrestre One Winged Slayer Member Oct 25, 2017 19,503 I turn all these off. Also throw in chromatic aberration somewhere in there   Dest Has seen more 10s than EA ever will Coward Jun 4, 2018 16,048 Work motion blur is the first thing i turn off in a game, if i can. the other stuff.... depends on the implementation. can be good.  
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  • I didn’t find AI useful. Then I let it teach me to code

    Nature, Published online: 23 May 2025; doi:10.1038/d41586-025-01228-3Artificial intelligence is perfect for teaching novices, but less good for experts. Use it with that in mind, says Hannah Hackney.
    #didnt #find #useful #then #let
    I didn’t find AI useful. Then I let it teach me to code
    Nature, Published online: 23 May 2025; doi:10.1038/d41586-025-01228-3Artificial intelligence is perfect for teaching novices, but less good for experts. Use it with that in mind, says Hannah Hackney. #didnt #find #useful #then #let
    WWW.NATURE.COM
    I didn’t find AI useful. Then I let it teach me to code
    Nature, Published online: 23 May 2025; doi:10.1038/d41586-025-01228-3Artificial intelligence is perfect for teaching novices, but less good for experts. Use it with that in mind, says Hannah Hackney.
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  • Google talked AI for 2 hours. It didnt mention hallucinations.

    The era of AI Search is officially here.
    Credit: Google

    This year, Google I/O 2025 had one focus: Artificial intelligence.We've already covered all of the biggest news to come out of the annual developers conference: a new AI video generation tool called Flow. A AI Ultra subscription plan. Tons of new changes to Gemini. A virtual shopping try-on feature. And critically, the launch of the search tool AI Mode to all users in the United States.Yet over nearly two hours of Google leaders talking about AI, one word we didn't hear was "hallucination".

    You May Also Like

    Hallucinations remain one of the most stubborn and concerning problems with AI models. The term refers to invented facts and inaccuracies that large-language models "hallucinate" in their replies. And according to the big AI brands' own metrics, hallucinations are getting worse — with some models hallucinating more than 40 percent of the time. But if you were watching Google I/O 2025, you wouldn't know this problem existed. You'd think models like Gemini never hallucinate; you would certainly be surprised to see the warning appended to every Google AI Overview.Mashable Light Speed

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    The closest Google came to acknowledging the hallucination problem came during a segment of the presentation on AI Mode and Gemini's Deep Search capabilities. The model would check its own work before delivering an answer, we were told — but without more detail on this process, it sounds more like the blind leading the blind than genuine fact-checking.For AI skeptics, the degree of confidence Silicon Valley has in these tools seems divorced from actual results. Real users notice when AI tools fail at simple tasks like counting, spellchecking, or answering questions like "Will water freeze at 27 degrees Fahrenheit?"Google was eager to remind viewers that its newest AI model, Gemini 2.5 Pro, sits atop many AI leaderboards. But when it comes to truthfulness and the ability to answer simple questions, AI chatbots are graded on a curve. Gemini 2.5 Pro is Google's most intelligent AI model, yet it scores just a 52.9 percent on the Functionality SimpleQA benchmarking test. According to an OpenAI research paper, the SimpleQA test is "a benchmark that evaluates the ability of language models to answer short, fact-seeking questions."Related Stories

    A Google representative declined to discuss the SimpleQA benchmark, or hallucinations in general — but did point us to Google's official Explainer on AI Mode and AI Overviews. Here's what it has to say:uses a large language model to help answer queries and it is possible that, in rare cases, it may sometimes confidently present information that is inaccurate, which is commonly known as 'hallucination.' As with AI Overviews, in some cases this experiment may misinterpret web content or miss context, as can happen with any automated system in Search...We’re also using novel approaches with the model’s reasoning capabilities to improve factuality. For example, in collaboration with Google DeepMind research teams, we use agentic reinforcement learningin our custom training to reward the model to generate statements it knows are more likely to be accurateand also backed up by inputs.Is Google wrong to be optimistic? Hallucinations may yet prove to be a solvable problem, after all. But it seems increasingly clear from the research that hallucinations from LLMs are not a solvable problem right now. That hasn't stopped companies like Google and OpenAI from sprinting ahead into the era of AI Search — and that's likely to be an error-filled era, unless we're the ones hallucinating.

    Timothy Beck Werth
    Tech Editor

    Timothy Beck Werth is the Tech Editor at Mashable, where he leads coverage and assignments for the Tech and Shopping verticals. Tim has over 15 years of experience as a journalist and editor, and he has particular experience covering and testing consumer technology, smart home gadgets, and men’s grooming and style products. Previously, he was the Managing Editor and then Site Director of SPY.com, a men's product review and lifestyle website. As a writer for GQ, he covered everything from bull-riding competitions to the best Legos for adults, and he’s also contributed to publications such as The Daily Beast, Gear Patrol, and The Awl.Tim studied print journalism at the University of Southern California. He currently splits his time between Brooklyn, NY and Charleston, SC. He's currently working on his second novel, a science-fiction book.
    #google #talked #hours #didnt #mention
    Google talked AI for 2 hours. It didnt mention hallucinations.
    The era of AI Search is officially here. Credit: Google This year, Google I/O 2025 had one focus: Artificial intelligence.We've already covered all of the biggest news to come out of the annual developers conference: a new AI video generation tool called Flow. A AI Ultra subscription plan. Tons of new changes to Gemini. A virtual shopping try-on feature. And critically, the launch of the search tool AI Mode to all users in the United States.Yet over nearly two hours of Google leaders talking about AI, one word we didn't hear was "hallucination". You May Also Like Hallucinations remain one of the most stubborn and concerning problems with AI models. The term refers to invented facts and inaccuracies that large-language models "hallucinate" in their replies. And according to the big AI brands' own metrics, hallucinations are getting worse — with some models hallucinating more than 40 percent of the time. But if you were watching Google I/O 2025, you wouldn't know this problem existed. You'd think models like Gemini never hallucinate; you would certainly be surprised to see the warning appended to every Google AI Overview.Mashable Light Speed Want more out-of-this world tech, space and science stories? Sign up for Mashable's weekly Light Speed newsletter. By clicking Sign Me Up, you confirm you are 16+ and agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. Thanks for signing up! The closest Google came to acknowledging the hallucination problem came during a segment of the presentation on AI Mode and Gemini's Deep Search capabilities. The model would check its own work before delivering an answer, we were told — but without more detail on this process, it sounds more like the blind leading the blind than genuine fact-checking.For AI skeptics, the degree of confidence Silicon Valley has in these tools seems divorced from actual results. Real users notice when AI tools fail at simple tasks like counting, spellchecking, or answering questions like "Will water freeze at 27 degrees Fahrenheit?"Google was eager to remind viewers that its newest AI model, Gemini 2.5 Pro, sits atop many AI leaderboards. But when it comes to truthfulness and the ability to answer simple questions, AI chatbots are graded on a curve. Gemini 2.5 Pro is Google's most intelligent AI model, yet it scores just a 52.9 percent on the Functionality SimpleQA benchmarking test. According to an OpenAI research paper, the SimpleQA test is "a benchmark that evaluates the ability of language models to answer short, fact-seeking questions."Related Stories A Google representative declined to discuss the SimpleQA benchmark, or hallucinations in general — but did point us to Google's official Explainer on AI Mode and AI Overviews. Here's what it has to say:uses a large language model to help answer queries and it is possible that, in rare cases, it may sometimes confidently present information that is inaccurate, which is commonly known as 'hallucination.' As with AI Overviews, in some cases this experiment may misinterpret web content or miss context, as can happen with any automated system in Search...We’re also using novel approaches with the model’s reasoning capabilities to improve factuality. For example, in collaboration with Google DeepMind research teams, we use agentic reinforcement learningin our custom training to reward the model to generate statements it knows are more likely to be accurateand also backed up by inputs.Is Google wrong to be optimistic? Hallucinations may yet prove to be a solvable problem, after all. But it seems increasingly clear from the research that hallucinations from LLMs are not a solvable problem right now. That hasn't stopped companies like Google and OpenAI from sprinting ahead into the era of AI Search — and that's likely to be an error-filled era, unless we're the ones hallucinating. Timothy Beck Werth Tech Editor Timothy Beck Werth is the Tech Editor at Mashable, where he leads coverage and assignments for the Tech and Shopping verticals. Tim has over 15 years of experience as a journalist and editor, and he has particular experience covering and testing consumer technology, smart home gadgets, and men’s grooming and style products. Previously, he was the Managing Editor and then Site Director of SPY.com, a men's product review and lifestyle website. As a writer for GQ, he covered everything from bull-riding competitions to the best Legos for adults, and he’s also contributed to publications such as The Daily Beast, Gear Patrol, and The Awl.Tim studied print journalism at the University of Southern California. He currently splits his time between Brooklyn, NY and Charleston, SC. He's currently working on his second novel, a science-fiction book. #google #talked #hours #didnt #mention
    MASHABLE.COM
    Google talked AI for 2 hours. It didnt mention hallucinations.
    The era of AI Search is officially here. Credit: Google This year, Google I/O 2025 had one focus: Artificial intelligence.We've already covered all of the biggest news to come out of the annual developers conference: a new AI video generation tool called Flow. A $250 AI Ultra subscription plan. Tons of new changes to Gemini. A virtual shopping try-on feature. And critically, the launch of the search tool AI Mode to all users in the United States.Yet over nearly two hours of Google leaders talking about AI, one word we didn't hear was "hallucination". You May Also Like Hallucinations remain one of the most stubborn and concerning problems with AI models. The term refers to invented facts and inaccuracies that large-language models "hallucinate" in their replies. And according to the big AI brands' own metrics, hallucinations are getting worse — with some models hallucinating more than 40 percent of the time. But if you were watching Google I/O 2025, you wouldn't know this problem existed. You'd think models like Gemini never hallucinate; you would certainly be surprised to see the warning appended to every Google AI Overview. ("AI responses may include mistakes".) Mashable Light Speed Want more out-of-this world tech, space and science stories? Sign up for Mashable's weekly Light Speed newsletter. By clicking Sign Me Up, you confirm you are 16+ and agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. Thanks for signing up! The closest Google came to acknowledging the hallucination problem came during a segment of the presentation on AI Mode and Gemini's Deep Search capabilities. The model would check its own work before delivering an answer, we were told — but without more detail on this process, it sounds more like the blind leading the blind than genuine fact-checking.For AI skeptics, the degree of confidence Silicon Valley has in these tools seems divorced from actual results. Real users notice when AI tools fail at simple tasks like counting, spellchecking, or answering questions like "Will water freeze at 27 degrees Fahrenheit?"Google was eager to remind viewers that its newest AI model, Gemini 2.5 Pro, sits atop many AI leaderboards. But when it comes to truthfulness and the ability to answer simple questions, AI chatbots are graded on a curve. Gemini 2.5 Pro is Google's most intelligent AI model (according to Google), yet it scores just a 52.9 percent on the Functionality SimpleQA benchmarking test. According to an OpenAI research paper, the SimpleQA test is "a benchmark that evaluates the ability of language models to answer short, fact-seeking questions." (Emphasis ours.) Related Stories A Google representative declined to discuss the SimpleQA benchmark, or hallucinations in general — but did point us to Google's official Explainer on AI Mode and AI Overviews. Here's what it has to say:[AI Mode] uses a large language model to help answer queries and it is possible that, in rare cases, it may sometimes confidently present information that is inaccurate, which is commonly known as 'hallucination.' As with AI Overviews, in some cases this experiment may misinterpret web content or miss context, as can happen with any automated system in Search...We’re also using novel approaches with the model’s reasoning capabilities to improve factuality. For example, in collaboration with Google DeepMind research teams, we use agentic reinforcement learning (RL) in our custom training to reward the model to generate statements it knows are more likely to be accurate (not hallucinated) and also backed up by inputs.Is Google wrong to be optimistic? Hallucinations may yet prove to be a solvable problem, after all. But it seems increasingly clear from the research that hallucinations from LLMs are not a solvable problem right now. That hasn't stopped companies like Google and OpenAI from sprinting ahead into the era of AI Search — and that's likely to be an error-filled era, unless we're the ones hallucinating. Timothy Beck Werth Tech Editor Timothy Beck Werth is the Tech Editor at Mashable, where he leads coverage and assignments for the Tech and Shopping verticals. Tim has over 15 years of experience as a journalist and editor, and he has particular experience covering and testing consumer technology, smart home gadgets, and men’s grooming and style products. Previously, he was the Managing Editor and then Site Director of SPY.com, a men's product review and lifestyle website. As a writer for GQ, he covered everything from bull-riding competitions to the best Legos for adults, and he’s also contributed to publications such as The Daily Beast, Gear Patrol, and The Awl.Tim studied print journalism at the University of Southern California. He currently splits his time between Brooklyn, NY and Charleston, SC. He's currently working on his second novel, a science-fiction book.
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  • Doom: The Dark Ages launches to 31k CCU

    Shoot
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    5,893

    /

    Current peak is 30,812.

    OT / review thread

    The game is available on Game Pass. 

    The Lord of Cereal
    #REFANTAZIO SWEEP
    Member

    Jan 9, 2020

    12,220

    Granted this doesn't include early access and this is just on a Thursday afternoon, but goddamn that's low. Eternal hit a peak CCU of 104,000 and even 2016 managed 44,000
     

    vixolus
    Prophet of Truth
    Member

    Sep 22, 2020

    70,669

    The Lord of Cereal said:

    Granted this doesn't include early access and this is just on a Thursday afternoon, but goddamn that's low. Eternal hit a peak CCU of 104,000 and even 2016 managed 44,000

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    DOOM and Eternal effectively had the same recommended specs+ Eternal launched at peak start of Pandemic with viral barbenheimer marketing. Costs less. Doesn't require an RTX card. Wasn't on game pass. Doesn't surprise me tbh.
     

    eamono
    Member

    Nov 17, 2020

    317

    The Lord of Cereal said:

    Granted this doesn't include early access and this is just on a Thursday afternoon, but goddamn that's low. Eternal hit a peak CCU of 104,000 and even 2016 managed 44,000

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    I think its going to be hard to compare a game that came out on game pass vs 2 that didnt, no?
     

    CloseTalker
    Sister in the Craft
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    38,110

    not bad

    eamono said:

    I think its going to be hard to compare a game that came out on game pass vs 2 that didnt, no?

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    That won't stop anyone
     

    Transistor
    The Walnut King
    Administrator

    Oct 25, 2017

    41,616

    Washington, D.C.

    Thread unlocked since it's been more than 24 hours
     

    Pop-O-Matic
    Avenger

    Oct 25, 2017

    13,962

    Zukkoyaki
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    14,268

    Word on the street is it's a bad PC port.

    edit:
    Well this kicked the hornets nest lmao. 

    Last edited: Friday at 11:44 AM

    DanteMenethil
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    8,979

    IMO ray-tracing required games shot themselves in the foot on the pc market, they shut away too many potential buyer.
     

    brawndolicious
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    6,074

    I guess a lot of that drop from the previous game is probably due to Game Pass. It was a much smaller subscription back in 2020 and Doom Eternal didn't hit Game Pass until six months after release in October 2020.

    Now it's there day 1.

    Zukkoyaki said:

    Word on the street is it's a bad PC port.

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Says who? The DF review praised it for being perfect in almost everything. Zero stutter, very optimized, and ability to change settings without a restart.

    View:

    Only thing missing is a preview window for graphical changes and some settings don't change anything above High until the path-tracing update comes out. 

    hydruxo
    ▲ Legend ▲
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    22,687

    Zukkoyaki said:

    Word on the street is it's a bad PC port.

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Haven't had any issues on my PC so far about 5 hours in 

    Duuuuuuude
    Member

    Mar 15, 2025

    24

    Zukkoyaki said:

    Word on the street is it's a bad PC port.

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    From id? 

    General Tso
    Member

    Jan 10, 2018

    522

    Game pass for me personally
     

    7thFloor
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    7,301

    U.S.

    Zukkoyaki said:

    Word on the street is it's a bad PC port.

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Do people just expect their graphics cards to be enough forever
     

    RochHoch
    One Winged Slayer
    Member

    May 22, 2018

    21,278

    The people clearly yearn for glory kills and Eternal's gameplay

    Shhhhh, don't mention Gamepass or other reasons, I have a pot to stir 

    Star-Lord
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    7,952

    It's not even Friday in some places yet lol

    Wait till the weekend you will notice the player count will go up 

    Gwarm
    Member

    Nov 13, 2017

    2,837

    vixolus said:

    DOOM and Eternal effectively had the same recommended specs+ Eternal launched at peak start of Pandemic with viral barbenheimer marketing. Costs less. Doesn't require an RTX card. Wasn't on game pass. Doesn't surprise me tbh.

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    I was about to correct you on the recommended specs for 2016, but I'll be damned if you aren't right. I remember running it on a 760 and having amazing performance so I had to assume the rec spec was much lower. Idtech is just a great engine I suppose.
     

    cvbas
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    5,043

    Brazil

    ridiculously high pricing in many parts of the world + good but not fantastic review scores + high minimum pc specs + early access for premium edition

    didn't expect it to beat eternal, but debuting with worse numbers than doom 2016 is kinda rough. 

    Pop-O-Matic
    Avenger

    Oct 25, 2017

    13,962

    7thFloor said:

    Do people just expect their graphics cards to be enough forever

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    They expect them to be enough until an upgrade is affordable, and that hasn't been the case for years now.
     

    SofNascimento
    cursed
    Member

    Oct 28, 2017

    24,876

    São Paulo - Brazil

    Gamepass makes looking at these numbers particularly trecherous but if we use Oblivion as a reference this are very meh numbers.
     

    Crushed
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    8,157

    That's genuinely low, but Eternal was also probably abnormally high due to COVID boost + marketing hype of "this time we're actually properly promoting the new Doom"+ ran like greased lightning on nearly everything + the organic Doom/Animal Crossing meme pushing consciousness.
     

    Cien
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    3,163

    Zukkoyaki said:

    Word on the street is it's a bad PC port.

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Potato PCs getting put in their place does not equal a bad port. Technology moves forward. 

    Wyatt+
    Member

    Jan 15, 2020

    821

    FWIW, I bought the last two Doom games during launch window, and now I'm playing this via Game Pass. Anecdotal, sure. But I'd imagine that's part of the explanation here.

    At the same time… It does feel like there's less hype for this than there was for Eternal. 

    A Strong Latte
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    8,855

    The high pricing + game pass day 1 to me makes 30k a pretty good ccu for a single player game. I bet many people like me are grabbing a couple months of gamepass to play this and clair obscura
     

    Merrill
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    1,938

    Halifax

    It's too expensive for a single player only game. Imo. Look at all the other Doom releases, they go down by 80% in price in no time.

    Then you have a fantastic game like Expedition 33 releasing for half the price and twice the length.

    Easy skip until the eventual price cut and sale. 

    BAW
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    2,124

    The Doom Eternal numbers… do they include players using that forgotten Bethesda launcher?
     

    nsilvias
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    30,047

    Cien said:

    Potato PCs getting put in their place does not equal a bad port. Technology moves forward.

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    i have a feeling theyll at least optimize it for steam deck despite the RT requirement. Indiana Jones just got a patch that verified it for steam deck and it seems to run decent at 30 fps even if its like ultra performance upscaling lol. probably trick windows into running it in that mode
     

    Mezoly
    Jimbo Replacement
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    5,245

    I don't know how to think about this when both Clair Obscur and Oblivion are doing higher CCU numbers right now 3 weeks post their releases than this.

    Both games on Gamepass.
    I guess let's wait till the weekend but I feel these are kinda soft numbers but not bad or great. 

    cvbas
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    5,043

    Brazil

    BAW said:

    The Doom Eternal numbers… do they include players using that forgotten Bethesda launcher?

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    No, 104k was on Steam only.
     

    Duxxy3
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    24,731

    USA

    With Oblivion, Clair Obscur and Doom all releasing on game pass in a small timeframe, I didn't even entertain the idea of buying the game on Steam.
     

    DamageEX2
    Member

    May 20, 2024

    1,240

    Not that good, but i imagine the early acess hurted the numbers
     

    RipVanWinkle
    Member

    Dec 10, 2024

    296

    Feels like a mix of the price tag, high requirements and it being on Gamepass
     

    vixolus
    Prophet of Truth
    Member

    Sep 22, 2020

    70,669

    Mezoly said:

    I don't know how to think about this when both Clair Obscur and Oblivion are doing higher CCU numbers right now 3 weeks post their releases than this.

    Both games on Gamepass.
    I guess let's wait till the weekend but I feel these are kinda soft numbers but not bad or great.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Both and less demanding/required specs 

    snowblack
    Member

    Oct 30, 2024

    585

    Zukkoyaki said:

    Word on the street is it's a bad PC port.

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Kinda yes and no. I got crashes for surebut when its the moment to moment gameplay its smooth as. 

    Friendly Bear
    Member

    Jan 11, 2019

    3,871

    I Don’t Care WhereI imagine the RT requirements are probably the biggest factor?
     

    Cien
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    3,163

    nsilvias said:

    i have a feeling theyll at least optimize it for steam deck despite the RT requirement. Indiana Jones just got a patch that verified it for steam deck and it seems to run decent at 30 fps even if its like ultra performance upscaling lol. probably trick windows into running it in that mode

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Oh, absolutely. I can see them doing some tuning for the Steam Deck. 

    MisterAnderson
    Member

    Oct 29, 2017

    3,861

    Isn't this a steam launch? As a massive Eternal fan and this being one of my most anticipated games ever, I'm probably waiting on a sale due to the high launch price and too much stuff to play. Tempted to just get it and play it tonight though lol
     

    Dave.
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    6,873

    Bought 2016 day one, amazing game. Bought Eternal later on in a sale and haven't got around to it yet. Skipped Dark Ages for now. Looks alright but I've already started waiting for it to get cheaper since the early access premium version released, by the time normal version comes out it's easier to wait even longer for even cheaper. And besides, really should just play Eternal. But new shiny is tempting, and without premium I might have day one'd it.

    These are weak numbers, maybe it'll have a nice bump on the weekend. 

    Last edited: Thursday at 10:09 PM

    Rosebud
    Two Pieces
    Member

    Apr 16, 2018

    51,116

    Friendly Bear said:

    I imagine the RT requirements are probably the biggest factor?

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    doesn't help too I think, especially for a ~15 hours game
     

    Measure
    Member

    Aug 14, 2020

    789

    Crushed said:

    That's genuinely low, but Eternal was also probably abnormally high due to COVID boost + marketing hype of "this time we're actually properly promoting the new Doom"+ ran like greased lightning on nearly everything + the organic Doom/Animal Crossing meme pushing consciousness.

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    The original Barbenheimer
     

    Johnwess
    Member

    Nov 3, 2017

    339

    Just wait for 3 to 4 months and get it 50% off.
     

    Firefly
    Member

    Jul 10, 2018

    9,709

    Zukkoyaki said:

    Word on the street is it's a bad PC port.

    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Don't hang around that neighborhood.
     

    wagon
    Member

    Jan 6, 2025

    423

    I mean all I can really think of is that for some reason word of mouth on this game is poor
     

    Duxxy3
    Member

    Oct 27, 2017

    24,731

    USA

    What's strange is the number of people that really loved the last game that have no interest in the new game. I enjoyed 2016 and Eternal, so I was always going to like Dark Ages, but a friend of mine has no interest becauseit's not like Eternal.
     

    MarcosBrXD
    Member

    Aug 28, 2024

    1,665

    I'm seeing little talk around this new Doom
     

    Gavalanche
    Prophet of Regret
    Member

    Oct 21, 2021

    25,781

    We have to stop using the "its on gamepass" excuse. So many games come out that are on gamepass that do well on Steam. We have enough of a sample size of years at this point to be able to deduce that gamepass does not eat into Steam sales to any significant degree - I am sure it still does, but it would be pretty minor.
     

    Jiggy
    Avenger

    Oct 25, 2017

    9,980

    wherever

    I didn't even realize it came out. Thought there'd be more buzz around it.
     

    carlsojo
    Shinra Employee
    Member

    Oct 28, 2017

    37,515

    San Francisco

    Yeah for whatever reason word of mouth on this game is pretty dead.
     

    Temperance
    "This guy are sick"
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    6,990Yikes. Didn't expect that low tbh.
     

    selfnoise
    Member

    Oct 25, 2017

    1,551

    RPGs are white hot right now and single-player shooters are... not.
     
    #doom #dark #ages #launches #31k
    Doom: The Dark Ages launches to 31k CCU
    Shoot Member Oct 25, 2017 5,893 / Current peak is 30,812. OT / review thread The game is available on Game Pass.  The Lord of Cereal #REFANTAZIO SWEEP Member Jan 9, 2020 12,220 Granted this doesn't include early access and this is just on a Thursday afternoon, but goddamn that's low. Eternal hit a peak CCU of 104,000 and even 2016 managed 44,000   vixolus Prophet of Truth Member Sep 22, 2020 70,669 The Lord of Cereal said: Granted this doesn't include early access and this is just on a Thursday afternoon, but goddamn that's low. Eternal hit a peak CCU of 104,000 and even 2016 managed 44,000 Click to expand... Click to shrink... DOOM and Eternal effectively had the same recommended specs+ Eternal launched at peak start of Pandemic with viral barbenheimer marketing. Costs less. Doesn't require an RTX card. Wasn't on game pass. Doesn't surprise me tbh.   eamono Member Nov 17, 2020 317 The Lord of Cereal said: Granted this doesn't include early access and this is just on a Thursday afternoon, but goddamn that's low. Eternal hit a peak CCU of 104,000 and even 2016 managed 44,000 Click to expand... Click to shrink... I think its going to be hard to compare a game that came out on game pass vs 2 that didnt, no?   CloseTalker Sister in the Craft Member Oct 25, 2017 38,110 not bad eamono said: I think its going to be hard to compare a game that came out on game pass vs 2 that didnt, no? Click to expand... Click to shrink... That won't stop anyone   Transistor The Walnut King Administrator Oct 25, 2017 41,616 Washington, D.C. Thread unlocked since it's been more than 24 hours   Pop-O-Matic Avenger Oct 25, 2017 13,962 Zukkoyaki Member Oct 25, 2017 14,268 Word on the street is it's a bad PC port. edit: Well this kicked the hornets nest lmao.  Last edited: Friday at 11:44 AM DanteMenethil Member Oct 25, 2017 8,979 IMO ray-tracing required games shot themselves in the foot on the pc market, they shut away too many potential buyer.   brawndolicious Member Oct 27, 2017 6,074 I guess a lot of that drop from the previous game is probably due to Game Pass. It was a much smaller subscription back in 2020 and Doom Eternal didn't hit Game Pass until six months after release in October 2020. Now it's there day 1. Zukkoyaki said: Word on the street is it's a bad PC port. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Says who? The DF review praised it for being perfect in almost everything. Zero stutter, very optimized, and ability to change settings without a restart. View: Only thing missing is a preview window for graphical changes and some settings don't change anything above High until the path-tracing update comes out.  hydruxo ▲ Legend ▲ Member Oct 25, 2017 22,687 Zukkoyaki said: Word on the street is it's a bad PC port. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Haven't had any issues on my PC so far about 5 hours in  Duuuuuuude Member Mar 15, 2025 24 Zukkoyaki said: Word on the street is it's a bad PC port. Click to expand... Click to shrink... From id?  General Tso Member Jan 10, 2018 522 Game pass for me personally   7thFloor Member Oct 27, 2017 7,301 U.S. Zukkoyaki said: Word on the street is it's a bad PC port. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Do people just expect their graphics cards to be enough forever   RochHoch One Winged Slayer Member May 22, 2018 21,278 The people clearly yearn for glory kills and Eternal's gameplay Shhhhh, don't mention Gamepass or other reasons, I have a pot to stir  Star-Lord Member Oct 25, 2017 7,952 It's not even Friday in some places yet lol Wait till the weekend you will notice the player count will go up  Gwarm Member Nov 13, 2017 2,837 vixolus said: DOOM and Eternal effectively had the same recommended specs+ Eternal launched at peak start of Pandemic with viral barbenheimer marketing. Costs less. Doesn't require an RTX card. Wasn't on game pass. Doesn't surprise me tbh. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I was about to correct you on the recommended specs for 2016, but I'll be damned if you aren't right. I remember running it on a 760 and having amazing performance so I had to assume the rec spec was much lower. Idtech is just a great engine I suppose.   cvbas Member Oct 25, 2017 5,043 Brazil ridiculously high pricing in many parts of the world + good but not fantastic review scores + high minimum pc specs + early access for premium edition didn't expect it to beat eternal, but debuting with worse numbers than doom 2016 is kinda rough.  Pop-O-Matic Avenger Oct 25, 2017 13,962 7thFloor said: Do people just expect their graphics cards to be enough forever Click to expand... Click to shrink... They expect them to be enough until an upgrade is affordable, and that hasn't been the case for years now.   SofNascimento cursed Member Oct 28, 2017 24,876 São Paulo - Brazil Gamepass makes looking at these numbers particularly trecherous but if we use Oblivion as a reference this are very meh numbers.   Crushed Member Oct 25, 2017 8,157 That's genuinely low, but Eternal was also probably abnormally high due to COVID boost + marketing hype of "this time we're actually properly promoting the new Doom"+ ran like greased lightning on nearly everything + the organic Doom/Animal Crossing meme pushing consciousness.   Cien Member Oct 25, 2017 3,163 Zukkoyaki said: Word on the street is it's a bad PC port. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Potato PCs getting put in their place does not equal a bad port. Technology moves forward.  Wyatt+ Member Jan 15, 2020 821 FWIW, I bought the last two Doom games during launch window, and now I'm playing this via Game Pass. Anecdotal, sure. But I'd imagine that's part of the explanation here. At the same time… It does feel like there's less hype for this than there was for Eternal.  A Strong Latte Member Oct 25, 2017 8,855 The high pricing + game pass day 1 to me makes 30k a pretty good ccu for a single player game. I bet many people like me are grabbing a couple months of gamepass to play this and clair obscura   Merrill Member Oct 27, 2017 1,938 Halifax It's too expensive for a single player only game. Imo. Look at all the other Doom releases, they go down by 80% in price in no time. Then you have a fantastic game like Expedition 33 releasing for half the price and twice the length. Easy skip until the eventual price cut and sale.  BAW Member Oct 27, 2017 2,124 The Doom Eternal numbers… do they include players using that forgotten Bethesda launcher?   nsilvias Member Oct 25, 2017 30,047 Cien said: Potato PCs getting put in their place does not equal a bad port. Technology moves forward. Click to expand... Click to shrink... i have a feeling theyll at least optimize it for steam deck despite the RT requirement. Indiana Jones just got a patch that verified it for steam deck and it seems to run decent at 30 fps even if its like ultra performance upscaling lol. probably trick windows into running it in that mode   Mezoly Jimbo Replacement Member Oct 25, 2017 5,245 I don't know how to think about this when both Clair Obscur and Oblivion are doing higher CCU numbers right now 3 weeks post their releases than this. Both games on Gamepass. I guess let's wait till the weekend but I feel these are kinda soft numbers but not bad or great.  cvbas Member Oct 25, 2017 5,043 Brazil BAW said: The Doom Eternal numbers… do they include players using that forgotten Bethesda launcher? Click to expand... Click to shrink... No, 104k was on Steam only.   Duxxy3 Member Oct 27, 2017 24,731 USA With Oblivion, Clair Obscur and Doom all releasing on game pass in a small timeframe, I didn't even entertain the idea of buying the game on Steam.   DamageEX2 Member May 20, 2024 1,240 Not that good, but i imagine the early acess hurted the numbers   RipVanWinkle Member Dec 10, 2024 296 Feels like a mix of the price tag, high requirements and it being on Gamepass   vixolus Prophet of Truth Member Sep 22, 2020 70,669 Mezoly said: I don't know how to think about this when both Clair Obscur and Oblivion are doing higher CCU numbers right now 3 weeks post their releases than this. Both games on Gamepass. I guess let's wait till the weekend but I feel these are kinda soft numbers but not bad or great. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Both and less demanding/required specs  snowblack Member Oct 30, 2024 585 Zukkoyaki said: Word on the street is it's a bad PC port. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Kinda yes and no. I got crashes for surebut when its the moment to moment gameplay its smooth as.  Friendly Bear Member Jan 11, 2019 3,871 I Don’t Care WhereI imagine the RT requirements are probably the biggest factor?   Cien Member Oct 25, 2017 3,163 nsilvias said: i have a feeling theyll at least optimize it for steam deck despite the RT requirement. Indiana Jones just got a patch that verified it for steam deck and it seems to run decent at 30 fps even if its like ultra performance upscaling lol. probably trick windows into running it in that mode Click to expand... Click to shrink... Oh, absolutely. I can see them doing some tuning for the Steam Deck.  MisterAnderson Member Oct 29, 2017 3,861 Isn't this a steam launch? As a massive Eternal fan and this being one of my most anticipated games ever, I'm probably waiting on a sale due to the high launch price and too much stuff to play. Tempted to just get it and play it tonight though lol   Dave. Member Oct 27, 2017 6,873 Bought 2016 day one, amazing game. Bought Eternal later on in a sale and haven't got around to it yet. Skipped Dark Ages for now. Looks alright but I've already started waiting for it to get cheaper since the early access premium version released, by the time normal version comes out it's easier to wait even longer for even cheaper. And besides, really should just play Eternal. But new shiny is tempting, and without premium I might have day one'd it. These are weak numbers, maybe it'll have a nice bump on the weekend.  Last edited: Thursday at 10:09 PM Rosebud Two Pieces Member Apr 16, 2018 51,116 Friendly Bear said: I imagine the RT requirements are probably the biggest factor? Click to expand... Click to shrink... doesn't help too I think, especially for a ~15 hours game   Measure Member Aug 14, 2020 789 Crushed said: That's genuinely low, but Eternal was also probably abnormally high due to COVID boost + marketing hype of "this time we're actually properly promoting the new Doom"+ ran like greased lightning on nearly everything + the organic Doom/Animal Crossing meme pushing consciousness. Click to expand... Click to shrink... The original Barbenheimer   Johnwess Member Nov 3, 2017 339 Just wait for 3 to 4 months and get it 50% off.   Firefly Member Jul 10, 2018 9,709 Zukkoyaki said: Word on the street is it's a bad PC port. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Don't hang around that neighborhood.   wagon Member Jan 6, 2025 423 I mean all I can really think of is that for some reason word of mouth on this game is poor   Duxxy3 Member Oct 27, 2017 24,731 USA What's strange is the number of people that really loved the last game that have no interest in the new game. I enjoyed 2016 and Eternal, so I was always going to like Dark Ages, but a friend of mine has no interest becauseit's not like Eternal.   MarcosBrXD Member Aug 28, 2024 1,665 I'm seeing little talk around this new Doom   Gavalanche Prophet of Regret Member Oct 21, 2021 25,781 We have to stop using the "its on gamepass" excuse. So many games come out that are on gamepass that do well on Steam. We have enough of a sample size of years at this point to be able to deduce that gamepass does not eat into Steam sales to any significant degree - I am sure it still does, but it would be pretty minor.   Jiggy Avenger Oct 25, 2017 9,980 wherever I didn't even realize it came out. Thought there'd be more buzz around it.   carlsojo Shinra Employee Member Oct 28, 2017 37,515 San Francisco Yeah for whatever reason word of mouth on this game is pretty dead.   Temperance "This guy are sick" Member Oct 25, 2017 6,990Yikes. Didn't expect that low tbh.   selfnoise Member Oct 25, 2017 1,551 RPGs are white hot right now and single-player shooters are... not.   #doom #dark #ages #launches #31k
    WWW.RESETERA.COM
    Doom: The Dark Ages launches to 31k CCU
    Shoot Member Oct 25, 2017 5,893 https://steamdb.info/app/3017860/charts/ Current peak is 30,812. OT / review thread The game is available on Game Pass.  The Lord of Cereal #REFANTAZIO SWEEP Member Jan 9, 2020 12,220 Granted this doesn't include early access and this is just on a Thursday afternoon, but goddamn that's low. Eternal hit a peak CCU of 104,000 and even 2016 managed 44,000   vixolus Prophet of Truth Member Sep 22, 2020 70,669 The Lord of Cereal said: Granted this doesn't include early access and this is just on a Thursday afternoon, but goddamn that's low. Eternal hit a peak CCU of 104,000 and even 2016 managed 44,000 Click to expand... Click to shrink... DOOM and Eternal effectively had the same recommended specs (A GTX 970 which was 6 years old by the time Eternal released) + Eternal launched at peak start of Pandemic with viral barbenheimer marketing. Costs less. Doesn't require an RTX card. Wasn't on game pass. Doesn't surprise me tbh.   eamono Member Nov 17, 2020 317 The Lord of Cereal said: Granted this doesn't include early access and this is just on a Thursday afternoon, but goddamn that's low. Eternal hit a peak CCU of 104,000 and even 2016 managed 44,000 Click to expand... Click to shrink... I think its going to be hard to compare a game that came out on game pass vs 2 that didnt, no?   CloseTalker Sister in the Craft Member Oct 25, 2017 38,110 not bad eamono said: I think its going to be hard to compare a game that came out on game pass vs 2 that didnt, no? Click to expand... Click to shrink... That won't stop anyone   Transistor The Walnut King Administrator Oct 25, 2017 41,616 Washington, D.C. Thread unlocked since it's been more than 24 hours   Pop-O-Matic Avenger Oct 25, 2017 13,962 Zukkoyaki Member Oct 25, 2017 14,268 Word on the street is it's a bad PC port. edit: Well this kicked the hornets nest lmao.  Last edited: Friday at 11:44 AM DanteMenethil Member Oct 25, 2017 8,979 IMO ray-tracing required games shot themselves in the foot on the pc market, they shut away too many potential buyer.   brawndolicious Member Oct 27, 2017 6,074 I guess a lot of that drop from the previous game is probably due to Game Pass. It was a much smaller subscription back in 2020 and Doom Eternal didn't hit Game Pass until six months after release in October 2020. Now it's there day 1. Zukkoyaki said: Word on the street is it's a bad PC port. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Says who? The DF review praised it for being perfect in almost everything. Zero stutter, very optimized, and ability to change settings without a restart. View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FjdOQmAHpk Only thing missing is a preview window for graphical changes and some settings don't change anything above High until the path-tracing update comes out.  hydruxo ▲ Legend ▲ Member Oct 25, 2017 22,687 Zukkoyaki said: Word on the street is it's a bad PC port. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Haven't had any issues on my PC so far about 5 hours in  Duuuuuuude Member Mar 15, 2025 24 Zukkoyaki said: Word on the street is it's a bad PC port. Click to expand... Click to shrink... From id?  General Tso Member Jan 10, 2018 522 Game pass for me personally   7thFloor Member Oct 27, 2017 7,301 U.S. Zukkoyaki said: Word on the street is it's a bad PC port. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Do people just expect their graphics cards to be enough forever   RochHoch One Winged Slayer Member May 22, 2018 21,278 The people clearly yearn for glory kills and Eternal's gameplay Shhhhh, don't mention Gamepass or other reasons, I have a pot to stir  Star-Lord Member Oct 25, 2017 7,952 It's not even Friday in some places yet lol Wait till the weekend you will notice the player count will go up  Gwarm Member Nov 13, 2017 2,837 vixolus said: DOOM and Eternal effectively had the same recommended specs (A GTX 970 which was 6 years old by the time Eternal released) + Eternal launched at peak start of Pandemic with viral barbenheimer marketing. Costs less. Doesn't require an RTX card. Wasn't on game pass. Doesn't surprise me tbh. Click to expand... Click to shrink... I was about to correct you on the recommended specs for 2016, but I'll be damned if you aren't right. I remember running it on a 760 and having amazing performance so I had to assume the rec spec was much lower. Idtech is just a great engine I suppose.   cvbas Member Oct 25, 2017 5,043 Brazil ridiculously high pricing in many parts of the world + good but not fantastic review scores + high minimum pc specs + early access for premium edition didn't expect it to beat eternal, but debuting with worse numbers than doom 2016 is kinda rough.  Pop-O-Matic Avenger Oct 25, 2017 13,962 7thFloor said: Do people just expect their graphics cards to be enough forever Click to expand... Click to shrink... They expect them to be enough until an upgrade is affordable, and that hasn't been the case for years now.   SofNascimento cursed Member Oct 28, 2017 24,876 São Paulo - Brazil Gamepass makes looking at these numbers particularly trecherous but if we use Oblivion as a reference this are very meh numbers.   Crushed Member Oct 25, 2017 8,157 That's genuinely low, but Eternal was also probably abnormally high due to COVID boost + marketing hype of "this time we're actually properly promoting the new Doom" (as opposed to the trainwreck of Doom 2016's marketing) + ran like greased lightning on nearly everything + the organic Doom/Animal Crossing meme pushing consciousness.   Cien Member Oct 25, 2017 3,163 Zukkoyaki said: Word on the street is it's a bad PC port. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Potato PCs getting put in their place does not equal a bad port. Technology moves forward.  Wyatt+ Member Jan 15, 2020 821 FWIW, I bought the last two Doom games during launch window, and now I'm playing this via Game Pass. Anecdotal, sure. But I'd imagine that's part of the explanation here. At the same time… It does feel like there's less hype for this than there was for Eternal.  A Strong Latte Member Oct 25, 2017 8,855 The high pricing + game pass day 1 to me makes 30k a pretty good ccu for a single player game. I bet many people like me are grabbing a couple months of gamepass to play this and clair obscura   Merrill Member Oct 27, 2017 1,938 Halifax It's too expensive for a single player only game. Imo. Look at all the other Doom releases, they go down by 80% in price in no time. Then you have a fantastic game like Expedition 33 releasing for half the price and twice the length. Easy skip until the eventual price cut and sale.  BAW Member Oct 27, 2017 2,124 The Doom Eternal numbers… do they include players using that forgotten Bethesda launcher?   nsilvias Member Oct 25, 2017 30,047 Cien said: Potato PCs getting put in their place does not equal a bad port. Technology moves forward. Click to expand... Click to shrink... i have a feeling theyll at least optimize it for steam deck despite the RT requirement. Indiana Jones just got a patch that verified it for steam deck and it seems to run decent at 30 fps even if its like ultra performance upscaling lol. probably trick windows into running it in that mode   Mezoly Jimbo Replacement Member Oct 25, 2017 5,245 I don't know how to think about this when both Clair Obscur and Oblivion are doing higher CCU numbers right now 3 weeks post their releases than this. Both games on Gamepass. I guess let's wait till the weekend but I feel these are kinda soft numbers but not bad or great.  cvbas Member Oct 25, 2017 5,043 Brazil BAW said: The Doom Eternal numbers… do they include players using that forgotten Bethesda launcher? Click to expand... Click to shrink... No, 104k was on Steam only.   Duxxy3 Member Oct 27, 2017 24,731 USA With Oblivion, Clair Obscur and Doom all releasing on game pass in a small timeframe, I didn't even entertain the idea of buying the game on Steam.   DamageEX2 Member May 20, 2024 1,240 Not that good, but i imagine the early acess hurted the numbers   RipVanWinkle Member Dec 10, 2024 296 Feels like a mix of the $70 price tag, high requirements and it being on Gamepass   vixolus Prophet of Truth Member Sep 22, 2020 70,669 Mezoly said: I don't know how to think about this when both Clair Obscur and Oblivion are doing higher CCU numbers right now 3 weeks post their releases than this. Both games on Gamepass. I guess let's wait till the weekend but I feel these are kinda soft numbers but not bad or great. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Both $50 and less demanding/required specs (even if Oblivion runs like hot shit regardless)   snowblack Member Oct 30, 2024 585 Zukkoyaki said: Word on the street is it's a bad PC port. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Kinda yes and no. I got crashes for sure ( definitely due to drivers and whatnot) but when its the moment to moment gameplay its smooth as.  Friendly Bear Member Jan 11, 2019 3,871 I Don’t Care Where (Just Far) I imagine the RT requirements are probably the biggest factor?   Cien Member Oct 25, 2017 3,163 nsilvias said: i have a feeling theyll at least optimize it for steam deck despite the RT requirement. Indiana Jones just got a patch that verified it for steam deck and it seems to run decent at 30 fps even if its like ultra performance upscaling lol. probably trick windows into running it in that mode Click to expand... Click to shrink... Oh, absolutely. I can see them doing some tuning for the Steam Deck.  MisterAnderson Member Oct 29, 2017 3,861 Isn't this a $70 steam launch? As a massive Eternal fan and this being one of my most anticipated games ever, I'm probably waiting on a sale due to the high launch price and too much stuff to play. Tempted to just get it and play it tonight though lol   Dave. Member Oct 27, 2017 6,873 Bought 2016 day one, amazing game. Bought Eternal later on in a sale and haven't got around to it yet. Skipped Dark Ages for now. Looks alright but I've already started waiting for it to get cheaper since the early access premium version released, by the time normal version comes out it's easier to wait even longer for even cheaper. And besides, really should just play Eternal. But new shiny is tempting, and without premium I might have day one'd it. These are weak numbers, maybe it'll have a nice bump on the weekend.  Last edited: Thursday at 10:09 PM Rosebud Two Pieces Member Apr 16, 2018 51,116 Friendly Bear said: I imagine the RT requirements are probably the biggest factor? Click to expand... Click to shrink... $70 doesn't help too I think, especially for a ~15 hours game   Measure Member Aug 14, 2020 789 Crushed said: That's genuinely low, but Eternal was also probably abnormally high due to COVID boost + marketing hype of "this time we're actually properly promoting the new Doom" (as opposed to the trainwreck of Doom 2016's marketing) + ran like greased lightning on nearly everything + the organic Doom/Animal Crossing meme pushing consciousness. Click to expand... Click to shrink... The original Barbenheimer   Johnwess Member Nov 3, 2017 339 Just wait for 3 to 4 months and get it 50% off.   Firefly Member Jul 10, 2018 9,709 Zukkoyaki said: Word on the street is it's a bad PC port. Click to expand... Click to shrink... Don't hang around that neighborhood.   wagon Member Jan 6, 2025 423 I mean all I can really think of is that for some reason word of mouth on this game is poor   Duxxy3 Member Oct 27, 2017 24,731 USA What's strange is the number of people that really loved the last game that have no interest in the new game. I enjoyed 2016 and Eternal, so I was always going to like Dark Ages, but a friend of mine has no interest because (basically) it's not like Eternal.   MarcosBrXD Member Aug 28, 2024 1,665 I'm seeing little talk around this new Doom   Gavalanche Prophet of Regret Member Oct 21, 2021 25,781 We have to stop using the "its on gamepass" excuse. So many games come out that are on gamepass that do well on Steam. We have enough of a sample size of years at this point to be able to deduce that gamepass does not eat into Steam sales to any significant degree - I am sure it still does, but it would be pretty minor.   Jiggy Avenger Oct 25, 2017 9,980 wherever I didn't even realize it came out. Thought there'd be more buzz around it.   carlsojo Shinra Employee Member Oct 28, 2017 37,515 San Francisco Yeah for whatever reason word of mouth on this game is pretty dead.   Temperance "This guy are sick" Member Oct 25, 2017 6,990 [NO 2FA] Yikes. Didn't expect that low tbh.   selfnoise Member Oct 25, 2017 1,551 RPGs are white hot right now and single-player shooters are... not.  
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  • Tesla changes lease policy, didn’t use old cars as robotaxis

    you believed that?

    Tesla changes lease policy, didn’t use old cars as robotaxis

    From 2019–2024, Tesla would not offer a buyout to lease customers.

    Jonathan M. Gitlin



    May 15, 2025 2:29 pm

    |

    83

    Vehicles at a Tesla store in Colma, California, US, on Wednesday, Dec. 13, 2023.

    Credit:

    David Paul Morris/Bloomberg via Getty Images

    Vehicles at a Tesla store in Colma, California, US, on Wednesday, Dec. 13, 2023.

    Credit:

    David Paul Morris/Bloomberg via Getty Images

    Story text

    Size

    Small
    Standard
    Large

    Width
    *

    Standard
    Wide

    Links

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    * Subscribers only
      Learn more

    Tesla has raised the ire of some of its customers, who are accusing the carmaker of misleading them. Until recently, it would not allow customers who leased its EVs to purchase them at the end of the lease. Instead, the leases stated that it "planto use those vehicles in the Tesla ride-hailing network."
    Tesla instituted that policy for Model 3 leases starting in 2019 and later expanded it to the Model Y until changing the policy last November. But Tesla is not currently sitting on a fleet of several hundred thousand ex-lease autonomous Models 3 and Y, and as of today there exists no actual Tesla ride-hailing network.
    Instead, it has been spiffing up the ex-lease cars with software updates and then selling them to new customers, according to Reuters. And that has made some former leasers a little unhappy that their old EVs weren't pressed into service making money for Tesla on an ongoing basis but rather just as a one-time transaction.
    Although Tesla Models 3 and Y depreciate heavily now, that was not the case for much of the duration of the "no buyout" policy. Were buyouts permitted then, it's likely that the buyout amount would exceed the actual value of those 3-year-old Teslas, which therefore may possibly have done these aggrieved owners a favor.
    In the meantime, Tesla's share price benefited heavily from CEO Elon Musk's constant promotion of the cars' supposed ability to drive themselves and the scale this would enable for a putative ride-hailing network. If his word is to be believed, autonomous Teslas will start offering rides in Austin, Texas, next month.

    Jonathan M. Gitlin
    Automotive Editor

    Jonathan M. Gitlin
    Automotive Editor

    Jonathan is the Automotive Editor at Ars Technica. He has a BSc and PhD in Pharmacology. In 2014 he decided to indulge his lifelong passion for the car by leaving the National Human Genome Research Institute and launching Ars Technica's automotive coverage. He lives in Washington, DC.

    83 Comments
    #tesla #changes #lease #policy #didnt
    Tesla changes lease policy, didn’t use old cars as robotaxis
    you believed that? Tesla changes lease policy, didn’t use old cars as robotaxis From 2019–2024, Tesla would not offer a buyout to lease customers. Jonathan M. Gitlin – May 15, 2025 2:29 pm | 83 Vehicles at a Tesla store in Colma, California, US, on Wednesday, Dec. 13, 2023. Credit: David Paul Morris/Bloomberg via Getty Images Vehicles at a Tesla store in Colma, California, US, on Wednesday, Dec. 13, 2023. Credit: David Paul Morris/Bloomberg via Getty Images Story text Size Small Standard Large Width * Standard Wide Links Standard Orange * Subscribers only   Learn more Tesla has raised the ire of some of its customers, who are accusing the carmaker of misleading them. Until recently, it would not allow customers who leased its EVs to purchase them at the end of the lease. Instead, the leases stated that it "planto use those vehicles in the Tesla ride-hailing network." Tesla instituted that policy for Model 3 leases starting in 2019 and later expanded it to the Model Y until changing the policy last November. But Tesla is not currently sitting on a fleet of several hundred thousand ex-lease autonomous Models 3 and Y, and as of today there exists no actual Tesla ride-hailing network. Instead, it has been spiffing up the ex-lease cars with software updates and then selling them to new customers, according to Reuters. And that has made some former leasers a little unhappy that their old EVs weren't pressed into service making money for Tesla on an ongoing basis but rather just as a one-time transaction. Although Tesla Models 3 and Y depreciate heavily now, that was not the case for much of the duration of the "no buyout" policy. Were buyouts permitted then, it's likely that the buyout amount would exceed the actual value of those 3-year-old Teslas, which therefore may possibly have done these aggrieved owners a favor. In the meantime, Tesla's share price benefited heavily from CEO Elon Musk's constant promotion of the cars' supposed ability to drive themselves and the scale this would enable for a putative ride-hailing network. If his word is to be believed, autonomous Teslas will start offering rides in Austin, Texas, next month. Jonathan M. Gitlin Automotive Editor Jonathan M. Gitlin Automotive Editor Jonathan is the Automotive Editor at Ars Technica. He has a BSc and PhD in Pharmacology. In 2014 he decided to indulge his lifelong passion for the car by leaving the National Human Genome Research Institute and launching Ars Technica's automotive coverage. He lives in Washington, DC. 83 Comments #tesla #changes #lease #policy #didnt
    ARSTECHNICA.COM
    Tesla changes lease policy, didn’t use old cars as robotaxis
    you believed that? Tesla changes lease policy, didn’t use old cars as robotaxis From 2019–2024, Tesla would not offer a buyout to lease customers. Jonathan M. Gitlin – May 15, 2025 2:29 pm | 83 Vehicles at a Tesla store in Colma, California, US, on Wednesday, Dec. 13, 2023. Credit: David Paul Morris/Bloomberg via Getty Images Vehicles at a Tesla store in Colma, California, US, on Wednesday, Dec. 13, 2023. Credit: David Paul Morris/Bloomberg via Getty Images Story text Size Small Standard Large Width * Standard Wide Links Standard Orange * Subscribers only   Learn more Tesla has raised the ire of some of its customers, who are accusing the carmaker of misleading them. Until recently, it would not allow customers who leased its EVs to purchase them at the end of the lease. Instead, the leases stated that it "plan[s] to use those vehicles in the Tesla ride-hailing network." Tesla instituted that policy for Model 3 leases starting in 2019 and later expanded it to the Model Y until changing the policy last November. But Tesla is not currently sitting on a fleet of several hundred thousand ex-lease autonomous Models 3 and Y, and as of today there exists no actual Tesla ride-hailing network. Instead, it has been spiffing up the ex-lease cars with software updates and then selling them to new customers, according to Reuters. And that has made some former leasers a little unhappy that their old EVs weren't pressed into service making money for Tesla on an ongoing basis but rather just as a one-time transaction. Although Tesla Models 3 and Y depreciate heavily now, that was not the case for much of the duration of the "no buyout" policy. Were buyouts permitted then, it's likely that the buyout amount would exceed the actual value of those 3-year-old Teslas, which therefore may possibly have done these aggrieved owners a favor. In the meantime, Tesla's share price benefited heavily from CEO Elon Musk's constant promotion of the cars' supposed ability to drive themselves and the scale this would enable for a putative ride-hailing network. If his word is to be believed, autonomous Teslas will start offering rides in Austin, Texas, next month. Jonathan M. Gitlin Automotive Editor Jonathan M. Gitlin Automotive Editor Jonathan is the Automotive Editor at Ars Technica. He has a BSc and PhD in Pharmacology. In 2014 he decided to indulge his lifelong passion for the car by leaving the National Human Genome Research Institute and launching Ars Technica's automotive coverage. He lives in Washington, DC. 83 Comments
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